Would you like cheese with that?

[CIDE]

Okay,

This is (theoretically) a simple question.



Scenario is one of the several games I'm in. "Anything D20" is allowed but technology is generally discouraged as you wouldn't be able to maintain it in this particular world. One party member is using the Dynamic Sorcerer class from BESM. For anyone unfamiliar it can learn pretty much any spell out there.

So far the player hasn't done anything to get out of hand. But if he does I'd like to have a character ready to throw in as needed that is as cheesy as possible. Prefering psionics like I do I've been leaning towards the Erudite (Arcane variety).

So, onto the question: Is there a way for Erudite's to get 9th level spells?

Beyond that I'd just be interested in general optimization for the class as well.

[Namfuak]

Eurodite 3/Beholder Mage 1/Cerebremancer 9/Eurodite 7 should do it.

Look here for how to get Beholder Mage:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110228

[CIDE]

Isn't a Cerebromancer a psionic class?

[Timeless]

Isn't a Cerebromancer a psionic class?

It's the standard arcane/psionic theurge.

[FMArthur]

Okay,

This is (theoretically) a simple question.



Scenario is one of the several games I'm in. "Anything D20" is allowed but technology is generally discouraged as you wouldn't be able to maintain it in this particular world. One party member is using the Dynamic Sorcerer class from BESM. For anyone unfamiliar it can learn pretty much any spell out there.

So far the player hasn't done anything to get out of hand. But if he does I'd like to have a character ready to throw in as needed that is as cheesy as possible. Prefering psionics like I do I've been leaning towards the Erudite (Arcane variety).

So, onto the question: Is there a way for Erudite's to get 9th level spells?

Beyond that I'd just be interested in general optimization for the class as well.

I don't actually have the answer, but just to pre-empt a wrong one, there are some people who think you can assume that 'treating the spells as discipline powers for learning them' creates a new Magic discipline out of nowhere that is a catch-all for all these completely unassigned powers, as if they have to have one. They don't.

Anyway, the idea is that you actually have two bonus feats at first level to trade for the Mind's Eye features, and that part is legit: the free psicrystal is explicitly a bonus feat, so you can trade it away for Mantled Erudite or Favored Discipline in addition to Convert Spell to Power. But you still can't pretend "Magic" is a psionic discipline and take Favored Discipline: Magic to get your maximum spell level up to what your general Psion powers' maximum.

I like taking Mantled Erudite, but that's just me.

[CIDE]

None of them are REALLY what I'm after when it comes to psionics. But it's kind of a 'just in case' thing. If they go cheddar I have to go provolone.

But if I was doing it for flare/fluff/fun I'd have a Psiforged that spams the hell out of Astral Constructs.

[Fable Wright]

Okay,

This is (theoretically) a simple question.



Scenario is one of the several games I'm in. "Anything D20" is allowed but technology is generally discouraged as you wouldn't be able to maintain it in this particular world. One party member is using the Dynamic Sorcerer class from BESM. For anyone unfamiliar it can learn pretty much any spell out there.

So far the player hasn't done anything to get out of hand. But if he does I'd like to have a character ready to throw in as needed that is as cheesy as possible. Prefering psionics like I do I've been leaning towards the Erudite (Arcane variety).

So, onto the question: Is there a way for Erudite's to get 9th level spells?

Beyond that I'd just be interested in general optimization for the class as well.
Spell to Power (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a) Erudite. They can learn 9th level spells as powers. If you need any spells, you probably can just read them out of the Dynamic Sorcerer's mind.
Also- I recommend against Beholder Mage. It will cause DMGs to be thrown at you. It is a spontaneous wizard with more spell slots, that casts 9 spells per round. For the love of the gods, don't try it.

Also, a crafty DM would likely enforce RHD/LA for your new beholder form, so you would probably end up quite a few levels behind...

[nocker]

Eurodite 3/Beholder Mage 1/Cerebremancer 9/Eurodite 7 should do it.

Look here for how to get Beholder Mage:

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110228

Man, I totally want to play an Eurodite next campaign. The sound effects of all his powers will be Eurobeat hits, people will love it!

[gkathellar]

Spell to Power (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a) Erudite. They can learn 9th level spells as powers.

Except, of course, for the fact that StP Erudites can only learn spells of one level lower than their maximum power level, since they learn spells as if they were discipline powers.

Which is basically what the OP is asking.

OP, the short answer is: not unless you can access 10th level powers.

[Namfuak]

I just noticed something about racial paragons.



Paragon class levels can be taken any time a character gains a new level, even at 1st level (in which case they receive four times the normal number of skill points gained at each succeeding level).

If I am reading that right, that means that if you take a racial paragon level at first level, every level after first you get 4x the normal number of skill points, which would be damn sexy for StP Eurodites if you grabbed an item familiar and just poured ranks into spellcraft and psicraft.

Or you could just make a factotum/charmeleon with at least 604 skill points total (that's not counting an intellect bonus).

[CIDE]

Spell to Power (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070629a) Erudite. They can learn 9th level spells as powers. If you need any spells, you probably can just read them out of the Dynamic Sorcerer's mind.
Also- I recommend against Beholder Mage. It will cause DMGs to be thrown at you. It is a spontaneous wizard with more spell slots, that casts 9 spells per round. For the love of the gods, don't try it.

Also, a crafty DM would likely enforce RHD/LA for your new beholder form, so you would probably end up quite a few levels behind...

1: I thought the Erudite's caster level had to always be one below his manifester level. Thus, at a level 9 manifester (where he can't go any higher) he'd be a level 8 caster.

2: Yeah, already planning on taking his spells if I end up making the character. I'm not exactly worried about how hard it is to acquire them; that's the easy part.

3: As I'm allowed third party material ('ANTYHING D20" to quote) there's a feat in Bastards and Bloodlines that allow me to play a human, troll, dwarf, wtfever and still qualify for the class by the name of "Old Blood".

4: On that note...if no one said anything when a level 5 Gun Bunny (BESM Class) killed 27 Orcs in a single turn inflicted nearly 150 damage to each one I don't think anyone in that specific campaign is going to say anything about my spellcasting.


Except, of course, for the fact that StP Erudites can only learn spells of one level lower than their maximum power level, since they learn spells as if they were discipline powers.

Which is basically what the OP is asking.

OP, the short answer is: not unless you can access 10th level powers.


You hit the nail on the head. Thanks. Not that it really helps immediately...




I just noticed something about racial paragons.



If I am reading that right, that means that if you take a racial paragon level at first level, every level after first you get 4x the normal number of skill points, which would be damn sexy for StP Eurodites if you grabbed an item familiar and just poured ranks into spellcraft and psicraft.

Or you could just make a factotum/charmeleon with at least 604 skill points total (that's not counting an intellect bonus).

How's that work again...? Where are these paragons from?

[Wings of Peace]

To pirate a trick from another thread, the easiest solution is to go Gray Elf Wizard 1/Erudite X/Tainted Scholar 1/ while using the 9th level spells at level 1 trick on the Wizarding part. Normally I'd reccomend going Necropolitan for the taint immunity but personally I like Subverted Psion more if psionics are already involved anyways.

[dextercorvia]

To pirate a trick from another thread, the easiest solution is to go Gray Elf Wizard 1/Erudite X/Tainted Scholar 1/ while using the 9th level spells at level 1 trick on the Wizarding part. Normally I'd reccomend going Necropolitan for the taint immunity but personally I like Subverted Psion more if psionics are already involved anyways.

9th level spells with a single level of Wizard? Versatile Domain Generalist -- it's in my sig. Tainted Scholar is a nice touch.

[Wings of Peace]

9th level spells with a single level of Wizard? Versatile Domain Generalist -- it's in my sig. Tainted Scholar is a nice touch.

That's the one. We referred to it as your trick in the other thread where I was trying to help some dudes remember what it was.

[Chronos]

Quoth Namfuak:

If I am reading that right, that means that if you take a racial paragon level at first level, every level after first you get 4x the normal number of skill points, which would be damn sexy for StP Eurodites if you grabbed an item familiar and just poured ranks into spellcraft and psicraft.No, you get 4x the normal number of skill points at first level, just like any other class. Every subsequent level is normal.

[CIDE]

Is there a Psionic/Divine Theurge out there as well?

[Rubik]

Quoth Namfuak:
No, you get 4x the normal number of skill points at first level, just like any other class. Every subsequent level is normal.The class explicitly grants 4x the skill points at every successive level. It says it straight-up.

[Douglas]

The class explicitly grants 4x the skill points at every successive level. It says it straight-up.
You're parsing it incorrectly.

Your parsing is:
(in which case they receive (four times the normal number of skill points gained)) (at each succeeding level).

The correct parsing is:
in which case they receive ((four times) (the normal number of skill points gained at each succeeding level)).

[Timeless]

Is there a Psionic/Divine Theurge out there as well?

Yes there is, the Psychic Theurge.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040925b

[Rubik]

You're parsing it incorrectly.

Your parsing is:
(in which case they receive (four times the normal number of skill points gained)) (at each succeeding level).

The correct parsing is:
in which case they receive ((four times) (the normal number of skill points gained at each succeeding level)).So if you take a paragon class at first level they immediately gain 4x the total number of skill points they will get for the rest of their career?

What if you don't know what class you're taking at 20th level? Or even 2nd?

[Douglas]

So if you take a paragon class at first level they immediately gain 4x the total number of skill points they will get for the rest of their career?

What if you don't know what class you're taking at 20th level? Or even 2nd?
I'm having difficulty imagining how you could come to that conclusion without intentionally misunderstanding it.

"the normal number of skill points gained at each succeeding level":
Where not otherwise specified or nonsensical, the term "level" in class descriptions always defaults to levels in the class being described. Whichever racial paragon class you're taking, use the skill points value for that class. Further, this is clearly referring to the amount for a single level, as specified by the word "each".

So, take the skill points you'd normally get for one level in your chosen paragon class, multiply it by 4, and that's what you get at level 1 if you take the class at character level 1. All subsequent levels get their normal quantity of skill points.

Even without picking apart the exact phrasing of the sentence, it is ridiculously obvious that it is intended as nothing more than a rephrasing of the general rule that character level 1 gets quadruple skill points. Interpreting it in any other way is so obvious an abusive misreading that seriously advocating it in any thread where such abuses are not explicitly welcome is a counterproductive waste of time.