Help me with a dungeon [My players stay out]

[SilverLeaf167]

I'm looking for ideas about a ruined temple of a god of undeath, which the players will be excavating. Technically, they'll be sent in to recover an ancient carving and allowed to keep whatever else they find.
I'd like some advice on the general dungeon layout, encounters and especially the loot at the end. The temple should probably be quite heavily guarded by undead, and perhaps traps or special terrain that favor them. At the end there would be something of a treasury (with all the loots) and a hidden room with the important carving.

All the live worshippers are long dead, but the dungeon is fairly well preserved if you don't mind the vermin, invading plants and a bit of mold.


One piece of loot I can think of is a two-feet long black rod made of bone, with a small skull on the end with a purple gem in it's forehead. It allows an Evil user to manipulate undead, but a Good user takes some damage instead and the rod is thrown a couple dozen feet in a random direction. I'm not sure how exactly to represent this in game terms, but some kind of Command/Control Undead effect would probably work?


EDIT: I can't believe I forgot to mention this. The party is a Dwarf Fighter, Elf Warlock, Halfling Cleric and Warforged Ranger, all level 6 and non-Evil.

[Cwymbran-San]

One piece of loot I can think of is a two-feet long black rod made of bone, with a small skull on the end with a purple gem in it's forehead. It allows an Evil user to manipulate undead, but a Good user takes some damage instead and the rod is thrown a couple dozen feet in a random direction. I'm not sure how exactly to represent this in game terms, but some kind of Command/Control Undead effect would probably work?

Let the skull be the remnant of a long deceased evil cleric that retained its power to rebuke undead even in death, something about 3 times a day?

[SilverLeaf167]

Good idea, I think I might use it, or at least some variation.

[Seth62]

Seeing how it is a temple you Might want some traps in important areas to keep out heretics and such. You might also want to have some Tomb wardens (LM) probably mummies.

[Sudain]

So, you've set yourself up nicely. :)

Layout - spend an afternoon looking at temples in real life and note what's cool about them. I usually like he large open meeting spaces, filled with small rooms off to the side for meetings. Note; religious texts may still be around. Then go look around at sewer systems, steam tunnels, cave-ins and other small cramped areas. Again note things you like. Now mix the two elements. Make as the dungeon large as you want. Just make sure to leave plenty of areas that are well built and sturdy and other areas that are collapsed(and available for excavation).

Excavating is a slow; laborious, noisy process. Are they the only ones interested in this site?

Special terrain - look into unhallow and desecrate. Follow those types of things. Also look at the undead traits and abuse their immunity. combat in a room filled with noxious gasses - check. :)

Are the undead intelligent? Would they have organized? Would they have maintained, and set traps? Would they have ventured out to find more corpses to turn? Or would they have intentionally fortified themselves? Why? And are they going to politely sit around waiting to be destroyed or preparing to destroy the world?

Random encounters - use them. I can not stress this enough, undead to not need to sleep/eat. Why would they wait for those sacks of meat to be ready for a fight?

I'd suggest scattering loot through-out the temple. Having it all in one place is great for a haul; but not if the players turn around before getting it(had this happen to me). Maybe some items the undead would like and be useful to them(as you mentioned) and some items the undead want locked up - sealed so they can't be used against them.

For the item - a rod of control undead (# uses/per day) with the unholy enchancement. Tweak as desired.

For traps - take a look at grimtooth's taps. If you take nothing away from grimtooth's traps take this: Be interesting and memorable. The trap can itself be an encounter or part of an encounter - but have fun with it. For example the old, bucket on the top of a propped door 'trap'. CR 1/2, at best as it is noisy(alerting guards) and annoyance. Until you fill the bucket with acid or alchemists fire, or caltrops, or flour, or Sovergn glue. All in all, much more memorable and entertaining.

You've got a cleric - pay special attention to his abilities(that he has and that he will get) that deal with undead. Not only will you want to know how to protect your undead you will want to leave them vulnerable. (I know... :smallconfused:) As a good DM you want to encourage fun; the cleric will figure out this place is infested with undead and will want to use his abilities to help deal with them. Let him. :)

[SilverLeaf167]

The ones hiring them to go inside are basically a secret cult, the real evil guys, who want the magical carvings to use for themselves. The ruins are buried, forgotten and just recently rediscovered, so there might be someone else interested in them; but I think I'll only let them interfere if the players take far too long looking under every single piece of rubble.

Though I don't really have any special thoughts regarding the guards, I think they would be (for the most part) mindless/obedient mooks who the priests used to boss around, and now that the priests are gone the undead just shamble or stand around waiting for something to do. I would like to include some single intelligent undead creature who has been waiting for an opportunity to escape its abandoned prison. Seriously, I have very little experience in running undead encounters, and kinda need some help on this.

Would it make sense to have most of the "treasure" in one place at the end, with the more practical stuff the priests might have actually used being scattered elsewhere in living corridors, altar rooms etc.?

I have looked at Grimtooth, but it was actually linked to me by one of my players, so I probably can't take anything straight from there. I agree with your other advice regarding traps.

I'm not terribly worried about the cleric: though he will probably know better to prepare for undead, he's not really an optimized turning machine or anything. I don't mind him being able to beat up the mooks, that's where the heavy hitter brutes and the boss come in (which I have no real clue about...)

[Sudain]

The ones hiring them to go inside are basically a secret cult, the real evil guys, who want the magical carvings to use for themselves. The ruins are buried, forgotten and just recently rediscovered, so there might be someone else interested in them; but I think I'll only let them interfere if the players take far too long looking under every single piece of rubble.

Cool; you have thought about it. :) As a player I'm curious as to why the cult died out - if I'm walking into ruin, I'm worried about biological deathtraps. *grin*


Would it make sense to have most of the "treasure" in one place at the end, with the more practical stuff the priests might have actually used being scattered elsewhere in living corridors, altar rooms etc.?

Bingo! :) I'm typically told I'm skimpy/stingy on treasure so I'm adjusting my personal style to account for that. I'd generate the full load/treasure horde for the vault. And then I'd go drop equipment on the mooks/areas on the way to the vault and not count that against the WBL. If they get it; great. If they don't great.


I don't mind him being able to beat up the mooks,
k, cool!

I'm going to chain-post some suggestions or how I'd plan to run a couple undead encounters. Hopefully it'll help. Most of the undead I use are smart(I like to play monsters smart to make the players really earn their treasure), but you don't have to play them that way. Maybe their brains were bashed in; or weren't made correctly. Or maybe they were told to be stupid. :)

[Sudain]

UndeadType (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#undeadType)

K, so things that are common among all undead.

Good Will saves
* So the preists would be safe lobbing things like confusion and not worrying about friendly fire. Espcially true if you are playing the undead as brainless.

No Constitution score.
Constitution
Any living creature has at least 1 point of Constitution. A creature with no Constitution has no body or no metabolism. It is immune to any effect that requires a Fortitude save unless the effect works on objects or is harmless. The creature is also immune to ability damage, ability drain, and energy drain, and automatically fails Constitution checks. A creature with no Constitution cannot tire and thus can run indefinitely without tiring (unless the creature’s description says it cannot run).
This deserves special attention. Immune to fort saves unless it would hurt an object... :)

Darkvision out to 60 feet.
* So only the cult would need to have torches to see. If the ruin went into lock-down mode then all torches should be extinguished except for a few which would be permanency up. But then again being sealed off would rob them of oxygen which would have the same effect. If the cult wanted to live in pure darkness (to further abuse this) they would use darkvision items/scrolls/wands to give them dark-vision so they would walk around normally. Or the race that the cult may have had dark-vision normally.

Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).
* Now illusions and enchantment seem like really good schools to toss around(from the cults point of view).

Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects.
* No crits - nice. Immunne to non-leathal. Interesting idea - trap that deals non-leathal damage - if you are undead you don't care. If you aren't you are kept out/knocked unconsciou AoE effects that deal ability damage seem like a good idea. Immune to fatigue to fatigue and exhaustion.... So they can go 24 hours a day and not care. Perfect builders, or running on a treadmill to power thing X.

Cannot heal damage on its own if it has no Intelligence score, although it can be healed. Negative energy (such as an inflict spell) can heal undead creatures. The fast healing special quality works regardless of the creature’s Intelligence score.
* Poo - needs negative energy to self heal. Maybe a recharging trap that does a little negative energy so they auto-heal? Or wand/staff that deals negative energy for the priests.

Uses its Charisma modifier for Concentration checks.
Not that helpful to you.

Not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead.
* Important to note if a player becomes undead. Or you have an NPC they need to talk to who's a mindless undead.

Proficient with its natural weapons, all simple weapons, and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
* So simple weapons to litter the halls.

Proficient with whatever type of armor (light, medium, or heavy) it is described as wearing, as well as all lighter types. Undead not indicated as wearing armor are not proficient with armor. Undead are proficient with shields if they are proficient with any form of armor.
* And any armor you care about.

Undead do not breathe, eat, or sleep.
* Wow. So underwater 24/7? Check. No food stores needed(ala poison remaining foods before leaving)? Check. No sleep, so they can patrol all the time? Check? Or claw at the door the party baracaded themselves into, ALL night without risking fatigue? Check. holding down the safety lever on a trap until someone enters the room(releasing the safty and huring the intruders?) Check.

Summary:
* Mind affecting things like illusions and enchantments are prime spells/effects to use defensibly as the undead just plain immune.
* Can not heal - negative energy required
* Simple weapons, and any armors
* No con; so they don't tire, don't eat, don't sleep, don't eat. Perfect for hostile environmental like water, poison gasses, handling hazardous materials, lifting.
* Immune to energy damage
* Darkvision

Common to all things undead (unless specified otherwise) so work some or all of these elements into your ruins all through out to give your undead the edge. I personally abuse the no eat/sleep/tire, no light, no con, no mind effecting and a couple ways to heal with negative energy.

[Sudain]

Now we need some monsters.

They are level 6 so CRs 3-9 should be about right depending on how tough you want your monsters to be.

If you use lower level monstes, use more of them. If you fill a hall with 50 1/2 CR skeletons then it'll be a really tough fight(save for AoEs), but it'll be longer and harder on you because you'll have to have more to remember.

http://www.d20srd.org/extras/d20monsterfilter/

Here are the ones I'd pick knowing nothing about your overall world. I'm limiting myself to Monster Manual 1, there are tons more books out there. :)

CR 3
Allip(Personal Favorite)
Ghast(See Ghoul, can raise more)
Shadow(Incorporeal, can raise more)
Weight(Can raise more, level drain)

CR 4
Vampire Spawn(Tons of abilties - and smart. Maybe he's trying a coup and running away?)
Wraith(Con drain)

CR 5
Mummy(Disease)

CR 7
Specter(Incorporeal, can raise more)

CR 8
Bodak(Gaze attack. Yummy)
Mohrg(Can raise zombies - good boss monster?)
Shadow, Greater(Incorporeal, can raise more)
Skeleton, Young Adult Red Dragon(I'm also a sucker for dragons...)

Templates
Skeleton
Ghoul
Ghost(+5 ~CR, but it opens up questing)

Look at the templates carefully. You can take ANY monster and turn them into one of these and include it. I'll leave that to you as homework. :)

Now; as a cult leader I'd also sprinkle some monsters that are non-undead specifically to help balance out some guy who's really good at undead smashing or ward off a coup.

I'm going with a gargoyle because they can stay static for a LONG time.
Gargoyle (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/gargoyle.htm) - CR 4
Also animated objects might be fun. CR 1/2-10

Note

Points lost to ability drain, is permanent, though restoration can restore even those lost ability score points.
* Just be aware.

[SilverLeaf167]

Wow, that's really thorough, thanks. Looking through it now.

The cultists inside were killed fairly abruptly by the very monster that is the hidden point of this whole campaign, so they barely had enough time to write a couple lines of "apocalypse log". So, there wouldn't be any traps they specifically set up after leaving, because they never did. I might include a section flooded with water after collapsing partially, or with underground poisonous fumes.

The halls, or at least the most important areas, would be lit with Continuous Flames or permanent torches in this fairly high-magic setting, so that won't be a problem... in most situations.

The brainless undead inside will most likely be just standing passively in guard, or patroling a set path over and over again. Any intelligent undead I might choose to include might be setting up and ambush, or trying to work their own way out of the ruins.

Now I feel that the most important part we yet need to handle are the encounters. What kinds of enemies specifically should they face, in what conditions? I don't really want to include too many basic humanoid zombies/skeletons, as they're really weak and their CR is hard to raise. Looking through Libris Mortis, I didn't really find much, other than maybe Deathlock or Necropolitan as a base for some intelligent foes.

[Sudain]

Incorporeal Critters.
Incorporeal Sub type (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#incorporealSubtype)
An incorporeal creature has no physical body. It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms. Even when hit by spells or magic weapons, it has a 50% chance to ignore any damage from a corporeal source (except for positive energy, negative energy, force effects such as magic missile, or attacks made with ghost touch weapons). Although it is not a magical attack, holy water can affect incorporeal undead, but a hit with holy water has a 50% chance of not affecting an incorporeal creature.

An incorporeal creature has no natural armor bonus but has a deflection bonus equal to its Charisma bonus (always at least +1, even if the creature’s Charisma score does not normally provide a bonus).

An incorporeal creature can enter or pass through solid objects, but must remain adjacent to the object’s exterior, and so cannot pass entirely through an object whose space is larger than its own. It can sense the presence of creatures or objects within a square adjacent to its current location, but enemies have total concealment (50% miss chance) from an incorporeal creature that is inside an object. In order to see farther from the object it is in and attack normally, the incorporeal creature must emerge. An incorporeal creature inside an object has total cover, but when it attacks a creature outside the object it only has cover, so a creature outside with a readied action could strike at it as it attacks. An incorporeal creature cannot pass through a force effect.

An incorporeal creature’s attacks pass through (ignore) natural armor, armor, and shields, although deflection bonuses and force effects (such as mage armor) work normally against it. Incorporeal creatures pass through and operate in water as easily as they do in air. Incorporeal creatures cannot fall or take falling damage. Incorporeal creatures cannot make trip or grapple attacks, nor can they be tripped or grappled. In fact, they cannot take any physical action that would move or manipulate an opponent or its equipment, nor are they subject to such actions. Incorporeal creatures have no weight and do not set off traps that are triggered by weight.

An incorporeal creature moves silently and cannot be heard with Listen checks if it doesn’t wish to be. It has no Strength score, so its Dexterity modifier applies to both its melee attacks and its ranged attacks. Nonvisual senses, such as scent and blindsight, are either ineffective or only partly effective with regard to incorporeal creatures. Incorporeal creatures have an innate sense of direction and can move at full speed even when they cannot see.

So the important bits I'd pay attention to:
* No physical body - has a large chance of avoiding most types of damage. All mundane and 50% of anything else. Can't trip/grapple/bullrush - Oh well they shouldn't be doing that anyway. :)

* Can pass in and out of objects. GREAT for guards and ambushes. And going through bared up doors. Really have fun with this one.

* Ignores natural armor, armor and shields. Hello Mr. Fighter and Mr. Cleric. :xykon:

* Moves silently unless it wants to be heard... Great for stalking and throwing the party off. :mitd: Ahead of the party, start moaning loudly. When the party gets there ready, phase into the wall/cleaing/floor. When they move on, safe(or just strike from the ground), ATTACK! :D

[Sudain]

So, there wouldn't be any traps they specifically set up after leaving, because they never did. <snip>

The brainless undead inside will most likely be just standing passively in guard, or patroling a set path over and over again. Any intelligent undead I might choose to include might be setting up and ambush, or trying to work their own way out of the ruins.

Now I feel that the most important part we yet need to handle are the encounters. What kinds of enemies specifically should they face, in what conditions?

:) I do what I can.

If they never left they may not have ARMed their traps; but they may still exist. And the vault may be trapped. Or they may have traps that discriminate and are always on. So, undead, and elfs are allowed through this door; if anyone else comes in blow up. See glyph of warding for clerics for more details. I dunno. I'm not a dead cult leader. :)

Standing guard and patrolling I get. Have a pack or however many of undead roaming the halls(random encounter table anyone?) that prowl the full complex. That would help ward off any other uninvited guests. Also, the undead should be performing mindless tasks like cleaning, mining, making beds, organizing books(assuming they are smart enough to read), fetching materials, etc... The cult certainly has better things to do than the mundane tasks.

What types of encounters... I'd suggest first thinking of your players and what puts a smile on their faces. What makes THEM happy; build a couple of those in. Then think of what makes YOU happy and include a couple of those.

As far as straight up combat, I like mixing the below monsters and trying to convert them to undead.

So I'd mix 2 mummy's, 2 weights, and 2 ghasts. Or 1 wrath and 3 shadows or 4 Allips and 1 Specter, etc... For the specific encounters after you have the monsters remember their abilities and maximize their use as you can.

Disclaimer: I play my monsters pretty rough because I and my players enjoyed hard encounters. Adjust to your players.

[Sudain]

For every Combat encounter I fill out the below template. I have sketchy notes(enough for me to remember what I need). I don't always include everything either; but I do make sure to put 'none or NA' as a check off. Then I know everything has at least crossed my mind. My planned encounter design has improved because of it so feel free to give it a whirl. When the players go a different direction or you need to wing it; this doesn't apply.

For awesome flavor I suggest going for something memorable. Fighting on a dragon's back. Descending into an active volcano. Sealed in a room filling with an unknown, but highly flammable powder. Have fun with it if you use awesome flavor. So if it makes you giggle like a deranged school girl; you've found your flavor. :belkar:


Combat Encounter A
-- Baddies
Flee or Fight to death

-- Motivation

-- Terrain
Rough/Difficult(Optional)

-- Cover (Optional)

-- Concealment (Optional)

-- Awesome Flavor (Optional but fun)

-- Tactics(Optional)

-- Spells(Optional)

-- Interactive Mechanic(Optional)

[SilverLeaf167]

Uh, yeah, I know how to make an encounter in general, I just don't know what undead I should use... a couple incorporeal ones is a given, just for the peskiness, but what would make a good generic minion, for example, without being too weak?

[Sudain]

I was not trying to imply you don't know how to make an encounters. I just evangelizing my list because I'm proud of it. :)

For generic minions I go to zombies/skeletons and template some nasty creature(several examples are provided in the monster manual for your convince). Are there any dangerous wildlife around?

[DocWoollybear]

If you're feeling particularly sadistic, you could have a large chamber filled with Plague Walkers (MM 4, pg 120). :smallwink: So many reflex saves...
Also salt mummies from MM3 are cool. Might work nicely for guarding the vault.

[SilverLeaf167]

I think it would make sense that the cult would have animated any corpses they found, and their deceased comrades as well, as zombies and skeletons, but the basic human zombie/skeleton is a boring, pushover opponent. Higher ranking cultists might have been animated as ghasts or tainted minions (or something else?) and still have the power to boss around their mindless minions (through DM fiat). The intelligent boss might be a Necropolitan Cleric, the former leader of the temple.

In addition, there might be a few incorporeal undead harassing them.

In my opinion, the problem with undead in general is that all the iconic undead are really low level, while higher level undead are really obscure or overly specific.

So, even if I settle on using zombies/skeletons as cannon fodder... what should be the basic intelligent undead (ghasts are really low level too), what should the boss be, and what specifically should I use as stronger brutes? There's a chance they might have animated a couple monsters from the area, though not more than three, most likely.

[Cwymbran-San]

I think it would make sense that the cult would have animated any corpses they found, and their deceased comrades as well, as zombies and skeletons, but the basic human zombie/skeleton is a boring, pushover opponent. Higher ranking cultists might have been animated as ghasts or tainted minions (or something else?) and still have the power to boss around their mindless minions (through DM fiat). The intelligent boss might be a Necropolitan Cleric, the former leader of the temple.

In addition, there might be a few incorporeal undead harassing them.

In my opinion, the problem with undead in general is that all the iconic undead are really low level, while higher level undead are really obscure or overly specific.

So, even if I settle on using zombies/skeletons as cannon fodder... what should be the basic intelligent undead (ghasts are really low level too), what should the boss be, and what specifically should I use as stronger brutes? There's a chance they might have animated a couple monsters from the area, though not more than three, most likely.
Use the variant undead from LM (Libris Mortis), how about skeletons whose bones explode on shower their hides with splinters when they are destroyed? Fast-moving zombies? Skeletons with limbs, burning in cold fire (for 1D6 extra cold damage to slam)?
All the same monsters, still iconic but a little modified (and thus more dangerous, adding 1-2 CR).
Also, is the cleric the final boss? Or do you have one really bad undead monster at the end of this? Maybe fight the cleric to end the adventure, but letting Mr. Lich come free that way so he may wreck havoc on the countryside as a recurring villain? So, you have a hook for your next adventure (stop the monster you yourself released)?

[00dlez]

I will often apply "spell stitched" domain (source is eluding me atm) to undead, typically without paying mind to the CR boost. Carefully planned it can give some otherwise mundane undead a little unexpected twist that might make the PCs think twice.

[VeGaS1986]

Trap:

You mention they probably havnt set any, and quite frankly many traps gets annoying fast but having about 2-3 in a dungeon depending on size is always good. Theres also the posibility of using natural hazards as traps. If the PC sets off a rockslide in a tunnel that looked safe you can still treat that as a trapped corridor, even if it is not by any nefarious design.

At any rate I would highly advice you to atleast put a trap on the carving, indiana style. One I personally used was where the hallway leading to the treasure was actually rounded instead of square, but had been filled in with a brittle mortar to look like a regular hallway (DC 30 to notice in casual passing, 25 if searching). When the trap was sprung a sawblade would come flying out of the end wall spinning around itself, carving away the mortar (and possibly some PCs)...Then the giant boulder drops into the now circular hallway...

Using some earlier mentions of water hazards and the collapsing hallway I mentioned, you could have the room they enter have three exits, 1 the way they came (which is now blocked by rubble) 2 leading further into the dungeon, and 3 (here it comes) a door leading into the cults "animation lab", where a Flesh Golem it hammering on the door from the other side (and has been since the cult dissapeared, it should preferably be enraged already). The knocking sound will only be a faint tapping from the other side because the lab room is completely flooded with water, making the golems attempts to break the door futile (slow motion slams = no damage) If they open the door the room they are in will flood rapidly causing a combat with drowning hazard, an enraged golem and impeeded movement due to the water. Have the exit door be passable with a good open locks roll, and have the key be somewhere in the lab (a chain around golems neck?). Have some light to medium loot be salvagable from the lab. make it so the roof is a lot higher in the lab, meaning when the room they were in gets completely flooded they have the chance to swim into the lab for air.

Monsters:

So we already have a golem in there so far. Id say you should probably have a fair few of the enemies be Wights, both heavily armored and archer types. Any Cult worth its salt based around death will not settle for mere skeletons to defend their temple. Sprinkle in some clusters of skeletons or zombies with mining equipment for weapons (must expand dat thar temple!!). Going on the "theme" with the lab, having a room contain a cluster of ghouls and ghasts in a sort of feeding pen would also be a decent encounter, especially if its near the lab (hinting at them being subjects for experiments or some such)

Also as someone mentioned, a salt mummy is really fun. Have it be burried under debree in a semi collapsed tunnel, with something shiny or interesting sticking out that the PCs will want to take. It wont come loose so they try to dig it free, letting the mummy get out. If you really wanna keep it as a SALT mummy, have all the debree on top of it be piles of salt from shattered barrels that collapsed down on whoever the unlucky sod is thats now the mummy (so this would take place in a supply room or kitchen area)

About the intelligent undead leading some groups, depending on what this monster thing that originally escaped and wrecked the place is, you can have a few spells casting Wights wearing the cults robes. The monster had some sorta effect on all the wight guards and other undead beasties in the temple making them attack their masters? In the process some of em came back. Make sure to sprinkle skeletons (lying on the floor, not animated ones) wearing cult robes around the place, hinting at that these spell casting wights werent merely servants.

Try adding a ghost encounter somewhere, with one of the cultists. Have him be all vengeful and a potential encounter but also allow a charismatic PC to avoid conflict and possible coax out some info. Maybe even having to do something for him in the dungeon so he can move on, in return for that same information?

Also how did the dungeon open up exactly? earthquake? A simple collapse? Id personally thing that your hook of a newly opened dungeon lends itself well to having some sorta tunneling creature (possibly humaniond, like goblins or the like) be the cause of the dungeon opening in the first place. Now you can have some living critters in your dungeon to spice up thinks, and even have the option of a three way battle. The PCs blunder into a room (maybe they accidentally knock down a wall Saving Private Ryan style), in the process revealing the Goblin? party who were there spying on some of the local undead. The PCs ally with the goblins (or whatever you decide they are)?or maybe everyone tries to kill eachother in a mad scramble? Maybe theres a truly intelligent undead with the undead guys, making for a three way mexican standoff with diplomacy, bluff, intimidate and all that good stuff being used left and right?


I hope this was of some help and didnt get too specific. Ill try and lurk around and follow this thread, maybe add some more as ideas get thrown around.

[SilverLeaf167]

Wow, that's a lot of specific advice, the way I like it :smallbiggrin:

To elaborate on the temple: all of the living people were killed when a god-monster rampaged in, devouring every living creature (though leaving some bones for creepiness of course). Thus all the undead within would have been already dead at the time of the destruction of the temple. The temple was revealed specifically by the cult looking for the carving, after which they hired some adventurers to do the dirty work. I might add a competing faction to make the whole ordeal more interesting though.

The golem idea seems cool, another option might be a cadaver golem (from Libris Mortis) which is basically the same thing but sentient and capable of stealing body parts. I think opening the door to the lab might release toxic fumes into the temple instead, which will cause trouble when they first open the lab, and if they don't plug a certain hole in the lab it will keep spreading into the temple over time. Maybe it could be just the ghoul's stench, which has been building up over the centuries or millennia the ghouls have been trapped?

[VeGaS1986]

Wow, that's a lot of specific advice, the way I like it

To elaborate on the temple: all of the living people were killed when a god-monster rampaged in, devouring every living creature (though leaving some bones for creepiness of course). Thus all the undead within would have been already dead at the time of the destruction of the temple. The temple was revealed specifically by the cult looking for the carving, after which they hired some adventurers to do the dirty work. I might add a competing faction to make the whole ordeal more interesting though.

--Hehe takes me back to when I first found the original Uldum entrance in Tanaris in WoW. I like it.

The golem idea seems cool, another option might be a cadaver golem (from Libris Mortis) which is basically the same thing but sentient and capable of stealing body parts. I think opening the door to the lab might release toxic fumes into the temple instead, which will cause trouble when they first open the lab, and if they don't plug a certain hole in the lab it will keep spreading into the temple over time. Maybe it could be just the ghoul's stench, which has been building up over the centuries or millennia the ghouls have been trapped?

--Hey im just throwing the ball, you decide how to dribble it to the goal :smallwink: But yeah gas is good too, and thematically fits the lab (smashed chemical containers). If you do decide to have it be build up ghoul stench there has to be a loud farting sound when they open the door though:smalltongue: (hehe undead farts, im so funneh)

[SilverLeaf167]

Is there any way to make medium humanoid skeletons less squishy? All their variant options only add to their offensive power, and Corpsecrafter results in just 2 more HP.

EDIT: Also, I've been thinking about the undead they'll be facing. The basic mooks will be simple zombies with a nerfed Destruction Retribution, so that they'll heal their allies and harm the PCs if they stay too close. Just when the players are feeling confident, "kiting" the zombies, a couple faster, bloodsucking zombies leap forward from the horde to harass the players. If the players take too long fooling around, I'll send some climbing, stealthy skeletons with long claws to bother them.

I think that the salt mummy might be even a bit too strong for the party, depending on how they've survived until then. To make up for this, the mummy will be buried under some rubble and a fallen salt barrel in a warehouse, unless the PCs start unearthing it or rummaging through the warehouse. If they start losing too epicly, I might allow them to instakill it by somehow luring it into the flooded part of the ruins. I'll give them a hint about its water vulnerability by making it shriek whenever a drip from the ceiling touches it.

[00dlez]

Is there any way to make medium humanoid skeletons less squishy? All their variant options only add to their offensive power, and Corpsecrafter results in just 2 more HP.


You are the DM, you don't have to follow the rules...

If you want to tack on some extra HD to the skeletons, do it.

IIRC, they don't have any armor bonus to their AC, slap on some crude breast plates and boost them to AC 20!

[SilverLeaf167]

*facepalm*
It really does make you feel stupid when you actually forget that you don't have to do everything by the rules. :smallsigh::smallredface:
Thanks for reminding me about that.

[Fable Wright]

For the undead, you could easily have had the undead made by a Dread Necromancer with Corpsecrafter and Destructive Retribution. The bonus HP from Corpsecrafter and Undead Mastery stack, even if the strength doesn't, and I think Desecrate gives undead made in its area bonus HP/HD. Destructive Retribution makes them explode into negative evergy when they die, making even human zombies a threat rather than a nuisance. And the exploding skeleton bears will be absolutely terrifying.

[Sudain]

Is there any way to make medium humanoid skeletons less squishy? All their variant options only add to their offensive power, and Corpsecrafter results in just 2 more HP.


Check out the Transmutation School. Spell Compendium have stone bones and iron bones.


You are the DM, you don't have to follow the rules... Yup, cheat as needed. So long as it's fun, it should end up fine. :)

[~Nye~]

Hey,
I love this sort of concept for a dungeon and I run this sort of scenarios every so often in my campaigns and it always gets a good reaction


Though I don't really have any special thoughts regarding the guards, I think they would be (for the most part) mindless/obedient mooks who the priests used to boss around, and now that the priests are gone the undead just shamble or stand around waiting for something to do. I would like to include some single intelligent undead creature who has been waiting for an opportunity to escape its abandoned prison. Seriously, I have very little experience in running undead encounters, and kinda need some help on this.

In one of my campaigns I had several teams working on this ruin, all from different creeds and religions searching for an artifact hidden within, but they did not declare this to eachother and tension and disputes began to rise between these groups. Infact I had a cultist still enamoured by the god running around causing bloody murders and raising the dead. (First this made the groups look like they were killing eachother off but infact it was the evil from the ruin doing the work.) Various people these groups interacted with my PCs. in referance to the quote above, there was a woman who would occasionally meet with the PCs and discuss information regarding the ruins and giving them hints and tips. The PCs speculated that she was a normal living person, but infact she was a spirit haunting the ruins and she wanted release from the curse that held her soul to that ruin and the horrors. It was a different twist on an inhabitant that wished for escape but it seemed to stump my PCs and they seemed to like the twist. hope that helps.