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View Full Version : [3.P] Any advise on how to NOT overpower your PCs?



Helldog
2012-02-08, 12:35 PM
I know that the easiest and simplest way is to use weaker opponents.
That's why, for sake of this discussion, lets assume that you use level appropriate encounters.
Another thing to mention is that I'm more interested in how to build encounters than how to run them. So assume that the enemies are played neither too smart or too stupidly.

1. Avoid using focus-fire on a PC unless you're sure he can handle it.

gomipile
2012-02-08, 12:41 PM
For one, have them spread out their attacks a bit rather than focus firing one PC down. If you do focus a PC, sometimes that last hit that should just barely put them down crits instead.

Helldog
2012-02-08, 12:44 PM
For one, have them spread out their attacks a bit rather than focus firing one PC down. If you do focus a PC, sometimes that last hit that should just barely put them down crits instead.
Yes, that's good. I'm gonna compile the advice in the OP.

Rebel7284
2012-02-08, 12:44 PM
Easiest way: encourage your PCs to build powerful and flexible characters. =)

Note that this may result in a party filled with wizards and druids, but such is the system.

Helldog
2012-02-08, 12:47 PM
Easiest way: encourage your PCs to build powerful and flexible characters. =)

Note that this may result in a party filled with wizards and druids, but such is the system.
That's not the point.

Tyndmyr
2012-02-08, 12:53 PM
I know that the easiest and simplest way is to use weaker opponents.
That's why, for sake of this discussion, lets assume that you use level appropriate encounters.
Another thing to mention is that I'm more interested in how to build encounters than how to run them. So assume that the enemies are played neither too smart or too stupidly.

1. Avoid using focus-fire on a PC unless you're sure he can handle it.

Look over monsters carefully. CR is a guideline, and some are notably nastier than others.

Give players a good chance at surprise. There's no need to guarantee they get it, but giving them the chance to achieve it with good tactics is absolutely fine.

Make sure players are roughly close to WBL. Being well behind has unfortunate implications.

Look at layout. If they're slow monsters, being widely separated weakens the encounter. If the PCs focus on area attacks, monsters being closely packed makes the encounter easier.

Mr. Zolrane
2012-02-08, 01:45 PM
Yeah, spreading attacks around is good advice, and helps everyone to feel like a threat to the enemies, which is good for PCs. Also, make damage gradual: not much per round but it builds up, which gives the whole "impending doom" feeling that makes encounters fun for everyone.

As for encounter power-levels I have a rather complicated system I learned from my old DM that would take to long to explain here, but I'll probably make a thread about it soon.

Grelna the Blue
2012-02-08, 03:18 PM
If the encounter is going against the party, allow their opponents to become overconfident and take actions or movement that provoke attacks of opportunity. Put the opponents in positions in which they can easily be flanked or in which the PCs can choose to attack from high ground, which has the advantage of allowing players to feel proud of their tactics. Keep in mind that most creatures will retreat from a fight they are aren't winning, unless they have no choice.

imneuromancer
2012-02-08, 04:05 PM
If the monsters have abilities that the PCs cannot counter, then you are basically guaranteed to kill a PC.

* Poison will most likely kill someone before level 7 unless it is super weak poison.

* Level Draining undead will basically guarantee someone will be screwed if they are encountered before level 7 (when clerics get Restoration)

* Wights will kill low-level parties, period.

* High DC curses will end up giving someone a permanent curse.

* Rust monsters, no matter what level they are at, will pretty much guarantee that someone will get screwed, and it will probably NOT be the person that you "want" to target (Murphey's Law).

* Blindness will essentially make someone useless before level 5 or so.

* Things that turn PCs to stone will very rapidly drain parties of their money.

If you WANT to screw your PCs, then the above are great ways of doing it. But if the idea is for everyone to have fun, then the above will arbitrarily single out one or two people to not have fun for an entire session or more.

Tyndmyr
2012-02-08, 04:15 PM
If the monsters have abilities that the PCs cannot counter, then you are basically guaranteed to kill a PC.

* Poison will most likely kill someone before level 7 unless it is super weak poison.

Delay poison exists for a reason. Also, potions and scrolls are handy. The dangerous one is really anything that deals hefty con damage, as it tends to synergize with normal hp damage well, and can lead to rather alarming drops in hp.

Ability damage can be a problem, though. Ever seen a low level party try to deal with an Allip?


* Level Draining undead will basically guarantee someone will be screwed if they are encountered before level 7 (when clerics get Restoration)

Just make sure they have somewhere that sells restorations within 24 hours. Panicked efforts to stave off level loss is absolutely fine.


* Wights will kill low-level parties, period.

Incorporality at low levels is problem. I mean, sure, I've gleefully tossed ghost assassins and such against parties at level 5 and what not...but you have to be aware of the dangers inherent with a death attack they can't really stop, and a very tough NPC.


* Rust monsters, no matter what level they are at, will pretty much guarantee that someone will get screwed, and it will probably NOT be the person that you "want" to target (Murphey's Law).

Provide clues beforehand or means of escape from such things. For the more bloody-minded, I point out that Draconomicon brings us the Rust Dragon.

I admit that my fights *tend* to go the other way, as I allow pretty decent levels of optimization, and thus, seek out more challenging bits, but a good rule of thumb is to look at an encounter you have planned...if you can't think of three solid, different ways of dealing with it in about thirty seconds, it may be a bit hard for the group. Players should not be expected to guess the exact right scenario you thought up.

Honestly, the biggest thing I try to avoid is domination type effects...at least, total domination ones. Suggestions, charm persons and the like do not entirely remove control from the player, but are still powerful...while things like Dominate or other methods of removing a PC entirely from combat means someone isn't doing anything for a while.

avr
2012-02-08, 07:31 PM
Don't always assume that monsters should fight to the death, or assume that at some point in numbers dropped/HP lost they may try to retreat, surrender, whatever. If they're willing to back off rather than take it down to the wire, then A/ you have made suspension of disbelief easier, and B/ you have a tool which you may use sometimes to avoid a TPK.

ericgrau
2012-02-08, 08:21 PM
I don't like the idea of playing the monsters dumb such as not focusing fire. It will cheapen the game and PCs will notice anyway. Having them run away to save their own skin when appropriate is a good idea though. Especially those who are only after money or other lesser goals won't even risk a single life. While say a cult trying to end the world might be more willing to die for it, and more likely to be a dramatic end of the adventure fight worthy of PC deaths anyway.

Here's one: in larger parties it's easier to kill off 1 PC, since he is a smaller portion of the whole. Until high levels keep the CR moderate with such groups, or use large numbers of weaker foes so that they can't focus fire even when they try.