Obscuring Mist/Fog Cloud Ambiguity

[Torq]

Fog Cloud (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Fog_Cloud)says creatures within 5' have concealment and creatures further than that have total concealment.

Obscuring Mist (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/obscuringMist.htm) says that creatures 5' away have concealment and creatures farther away have total concealment.

I assume the spells are supposed to function identically with the duration being the only difference.

My confusion is, the way the spells are worded, I'm not sure if 5' away means the adjacent square, or one 5' square in between the observer and observed.

Can someone clear this up for me?

[Namfuak]

From the way Obscuring Mist is worded, it sounds like people 5' away (IE, one square over) are no totally concealed, but have some concealment, while people even farther are totally concealed by the fog. As in, it is the same as Fog Cloud save for duration.

[Darrin]

My confusion is, the way the spells are worded, I'm not sure if 5' away means the adjacent square, or one 5' square in between the observer and observed.


"5' away" and "adjacent" means the same thing. Both spells work the same way. Anyone immediately adjacent to you has concealment (20% miss chance). Any target with at least one full square of mist/fog between you has full concealment (can't be targeted, 50% miss chance).

[Torq]

Thanks. That's what I thought.

If you don't mind, I have a follow up question.

Does concealment grant a rogue SA, or do they need total concealment for that?

The idea is for the druid to cast faerie fire on the bad guys and the wizard to cast obscuring mist centered on the party, essentially giving the party invisibility. As long as they come within 30', the rogue gets SA. But if they're adjacent, does the rogue lose it?

[Darrin]

Does concealment grant a rogue SA, or do they need total concealment for that?

The idea is for the druid to cast faerie fire on the bad guys and the wizard to cast obscuring mist centered on the party, essentially giving the party invisibility. As long as they come within 30', the rogue gets SA. But if they're adjacent, does the rogue lose it?

In general, targets with concealment (either partial or total) is a bad thing for rogues because it completely negates Sneak Attack. From the PHB:

"The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment" (emphasis added)

Although faerie fire negates concealment, it doesn't get rid of the mist itself, and obscuring mist says it still blocks vision:

"A misty vapor arises around you. It is stationary once created. The vapor obscures all sight, including darkvision, beyond 5 feet. A creature 5 feet away has concealment (attacks have a 20% miss chance). Creatures farther away have total concealment (50% miss chance, and the attacker cannot use sight to locate the target)."

So, if there is at least one square full of mist between the rogue and his target, even if the target is lit up with faerie fire, the mist still blocks his vision and he can't use sneak attack. However, if his target was standing on the edge of the mist, then the rogue could sneak attack, because there isn't enough mist to block his vision and the target's concealment has been negated via faerie fire.

Fog cloud, smokestick, liquid smoke, horn of fog, etc. would work the same way. To target enemies inside of the mist/fog rather than on the edge, you'd need something like the touchsight power, blindsight, Blindfold of True Darkness (9000 GP, MIC), or this really expensive cloud cloak (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fw/20050311a).

[Lapak]

In general, targets with concealment (either partial or total) is a bad thing for rogues because it completely negates Sneak Attack. From the PHB:

"The rogue must be able to see the target well enough to pick out a vital spot and must be able to reach such a spot. A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment" (emphasis added)On the other hand, Concealment does allow Hide checks. So if the Rogue was in a square right on the edge of the mist and his target was standing outside it, that could allow for Sneak Attacks.

[Torq]

Thanks. That clears things up very nicely.