Ironsoul forge master for dummies?

[NullShadow]

I am in a campaign in which i am being allowed to roll a lvl 4 character. How would i go about building an Ironsoul Forgemaster, and what could i use him for?( I picked him mainly due to his flavor)

[Keld Denar]

I don't think you can build an ISFM at level 4, you need to be 5th level to hit the prereqs.

Other than that, Dwarf Incanate seems like an obvious start. Either Incanate5, or possibly Incanate3/Totemist2. I'd use Incanate Weapon and a shield, especially when you get into ISFM and you can invest essential into your shield.

[Psyren]

Another solid option is Dwarf Artificer. Combine that with Battlesmith from Races of Stone and you can end up with a CL of 45-50 for crafting purposes by ECL 20.

I'd personally go with Dwarf Artificer 4/Incarnate 1 rather than Artificer 5 - ISFM gets you the CMA&A feat you'd have gotten from Artificer 5 for free, and you'll also get the soulmeld prereqs for free that way, saving more feats.

[Person_Man]

My 2cp:

Dwarf Dragonborn is generally considered the best race for an Ironsoul Forgemaster, especially one with a Totemist entry. Dragonborn gives you another +2 to Con (and -2 to Dex) and wings or a breath weapon (in place of your normal racial abilities) while maintaining your racial type, and Con is the Totemist's primary attribute.

Keep in mind that you will probably be using a shield (or an Animated Shield) and adamantine heavy armor when you can afford it, to get the most benefit out of your Shield Bond and Armor Bond class abilities. Plan your build accordingly.

Note that the Ironsoul Forgemaster only opens up the Arms, Waist, Shoulders, and Heart chakra binds. The Waist and Heart chakra binds comes a few levels earlier then normal compared to the Totemist or Incarnate. But it does not open up the Totem, Crown, Feet, Hands, Throat, or Soul chakra binds. So plan your build according to which chakra binds you want to use.

I suggest Incarnate 5/Ironsoul Forgemaster if you want to maximize defense, especially the use of the Necrocarnum Circlet (all day super zombie with max HD equal to your meldshaper level) and Vitality Belt (meldshaper level * essentia bonus hit points) soulmelds, plus other amazing Incarnate options such as Spellward Shirt (Spell Resistance), Wind Cloak (super Deflect Arrows), Mantle of Flame (retributive Fire Damage), and Astral Vembraces (2 + (2*essentia) DR/magic).

I suggest Totemist 5 for maximum offense. You can also go Totemist 2/Whatever 3 (Lion Totem Barbarian 1, Crusader 2-3, Fighter 2, etc) if you want some other class ability, though doing so gives up your crown, feet, and hands chakra binds.

Totemist 2/Incarnate 3 gives you maximum soulmeld flexibility. But unless you have a specific soulmeld combo in mind, it's not really worth it, as doing so gives up your feet and hands chakra binds.

If your DM lets you use the Share Soulmeld feat (lets your Familiar or Animal Companion gain the benefits of your soulmelds, basically doubling the power output of some of them) then one level of Sorcerer for a Familiar is a good idea.

Remember that the Dragon Mantle soulmeld (from Dragon Magic) provides Energy Resistance of 3 * essentia invested to Acid, Electricity, Fire, and Cold, and it explicitly stacks with ER from other sources. When combined with your Shield Bond ability (universal Energy Resistance = 5 * essentia invested) you're highly resistant to most energy attacks whenever you need to be. You can also get Evasion by binding the Greater Raptor Mask or Impulse Boots soulmelds, though that might be overkill.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

A few things to consider:

Incarnate do not get shield proficiency or heavy armor proficiency, therefore a dip into something like Crusader would also be very useful. This also nets you maneuvers that take advantage of your shield, and Thicket of Blades is just dead useful no matter what.

So Incarnate3/Crusader1 and go back into Incarnate next level, then into Ironsoul Forgemaster. When you hit IL 5 (9th CL), go back to Crusader for Thicket of Blades. Until then, either use Iron Guard's Glare or Martial Spirit as your stance.

[Keld Denar]

If you are gonna do that, go Incarnate4/Crusader1. That opens up 2nd level maneuvers for your dip, rather than being stuck at 2.5 IL at ECL 4.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

If you are gonna do that, go Incarnate4/Crusader1. That opens up 2nd level maneuvers for your dip, rather than being stuck at 2.5 IL at ECL 4.

Unfortunately not. One of the lesser known problems with ToB is that you can only pick up 1st level stances and maneuvers with your first level of that class. Poor edition, surely, but there ya go.

[tyckspoon]

Unfortunately not. One of the lesser known problems with ToB is that you can only pick up 1st level stances and maneuvers with your first level of that class. Poor edition, surely, but there ya go.

Just the stances, actually. For maneuvers, you're allowed to grab anything that you have a high enough IL for and meet the maneuvers-known prereqs.

[Keld Denar]

Except that there are no 2nd level stances, so that whole arguement is moot. I mentioned it so you can start your crusaderdom with Mountain Hammer, among a couple others.

[Manateee]

Shneeky beat me to it, but Incarnate 4/Crusader 1/ISF has a lot going for it:

Incarnate provides many numerical boosts to attacks, but not much to support fighting with a one-handed weapon. Crusader can provide that support with its maneuvers and stances - as well as jibing smoothly with the Incarnate's action demands (it generally benefits from a free swift action per round, and doesn't provide a means to move+full attack on its own).

I'm also quite fond of a brief Battlesmith dip on Wis-focused ISFs. But that mostly depends on a specific character's stat priorities and crafting emphasis.

[Zaq]

A few things to consider:

Incarnate do not get shield proficiency or heavy armor proficiency, therefore a dip into something like Crusader would also be very useful. This also nets you maneuvers that take advantage of your shield, and Thicket of Blades is just dead useful no matter what.

So Incarnate3/Crusader1 and go back into Incarnate next level, then into Ironsoul Forgemaster. When you hit IL 5 (9th CL), go back to Crusader for Thicket of Blades. Until then, either use Iron Guard's Glare or Martial Spirit as your stance.

Point of order: Incarnates very much get shield proficiency. This is a relatively big deal for an ISFM, since Shield Bond is actually a fantastic class feature. (Sure, at high levels, the benefits of two-handing far and away outstrip some resistances, but at your level? Having that level of resist on tap is godly.)

[Chronos]

My 2cp:

Dwarf Dragonborn is generally considered the best race for an Ironsoul Forgemaster, especially one with a Totemist entry. Dragonborn gives you another +2 to Con (and -2 to Dex) and wings or a breath weapon (in place of your normal racial abilities) while maintaining your racial type, and Con is the Totemist's primary attribute. By the same token, wouldn't a Dragonborn Mongrelfolk be even better?

[ShneekeyTheLost]

By the same token, wouldn't a Dragonborn Mongrelfolk be even better?

Ironsoul Forgemaster requires Dwarf

[Psyren]

Ironsoul Forgemaster requires Dwarf

You can get around that with the adaptation (MoI pg. 131).

[absolmorph]

Point of order: Incarnates very much get shield proficiency. This is a relatively big deal for an ISFM, since Shield Bond is actually a fantastic class feature. (Sure, at high levels, the benefits of two-handing far and away outstrip some resistances, but at your level? Having that level of resist on tap is godly.)
Nobody ever seems to think "Hey, what if I wield a shield in two hands?"

[Amphetryon]

Nobody ever seems to think "Hey, what if I wield a shield in two hands?"

What happens, by RAW, is you're using an off-hand weapon in two hands; there are no rules for Shield as primary weapon. Silly and pedantic, perhaps, but relevant.

[Keld Denar]

If you want to get RAW pedantic, you could argue that its not an offhand. No attack is an offhand if you arent' using TWFing. If you attack with the shield as one of your iterative attacks, it can't be an offhand attack, just as attacking with a sword in each hand doesn't result in an offhand attack if you have a BAB of +6 or higher.

Offhands are only defined WRT TWFing. If you aren't TWFing, you don't have an offhand.

[NullShadow]

Ok sorry it took so long to reply. What I am looking at with some research is Incarnate, or some other incarnum class (1) / Artificer (5) / Ironsoul Forgemaster (10) / Battlesmith (4) in some form of combination. when totaled, at lvl 20 my ecl for crafting magic items would be 49. That is, if i can live that long.

Now i need to know what kind of layout and what kind of feats to use.

P.S. dragon stuff isn't allowed :smallfrown: In the DM's world they were extinct ala Skyrim ways.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Ok sorry it took so long to reply. What I am looking at with some research is Incarnate, or some other incarnum class (1) / Artificer (5) / Ironsoul Forgemaster (10) / Battlesmith (4) in some form of combination. when totaled, at lvl 20 my ecl for crafting magic items would be 49. That is, if i can live that long.

Now i need to know what kind of layout and what kind of feats to use.

P.S. dragon stuff isn't allowed :smallfrown: In the DM's world they were extinct ala Skyrim ways.

That's about the worst entry for Ironsoul Forgemaster I've ever seen. If you're going to do Artificer, why BOTHER with Incarnate or Ironsoul Forgemaster?

This build still doesn't end up with heavy armor proficiency, which is required if you're wanting to max your DR from Adamantine Full Plate + Imbue Armor.

It looks like you're trying to do too much at the same time. Figure out what you're wanting to do, then do it.

Do you want to be a Tier 1 caster? Then be a Tier 1 caster. Do you want to be a Tank? Then be a tank. Do you want to be a Gish? Then be a gish. But don't try combining two different types of incompatible skillsets, then incorporate a gish from one of them. You'll end up watering yourself down too hard.

If you are wanting to do Ironsoul Forgemaster, then go Incarnate4/Crusader1/Ironsoul Forgemaster 10/xxx5. If you want more incarnate stuff, go Incarnate. If you want more maneuvers/stances, go more crusader. Unfortunately, there's nothing that does both. However, either way will give you a meaningful amount of stuff.

If you're wanting to be an Artificer, then bloody well BE an artificer, and don't pussyfoot around with Ironsoul Forgemaster, go with Soulcaster and get a ton of casting AND a ton of meldshaping. You can get in with as little as a two-level dip in Incarnate, so you don't dilute your Artificer's infusions much.

Just remember... if you bind a soulmeld to a location, you can't wear gear there unless you blow a feat on it, and artificers tend to want to wear a lot of different gear set up with automatic effects. YMMV.

[Psyren]

That's about the worst entry for Ironsoul Forgemaster I've ever seen. If you're going to do Artificer, why BOTHER with Incarnate or Ironsoul Forgemaster?

Nah, it's fine. Artificer gets you the ability to craft via UMD checks (which themselves get a hefty boost from Mage's Spectacles.) Meanwhile, Incarnate 1 gets you the "ability to shape soulmelds" without spending any feats, and an essentia progression to advance with IF. And finally, both Ironsoul Forgemaster and Battlesmith's massive CLs explicitly stack with everything else - including each other and his Artificer levels.

It's a super-crafting build, not a gish or a caster or the other things that you named. (Though it can certainly be those things by building the right toys.)

[NullShadow]

Ty for the input, though In the eberron setting, how would you rule the crafting reduction feats stack? would one 25% reduction plus another 25% reduction add up to a total of 50% or just be 25% less of the result each time you took it?