Class concepts [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Mystify

2012-02-09, 06:18 AM

AugustNights

2012-02-09, 08:41 AM

Just throwing my two bits in, for whatever they're worth.

Mime
Mildly interesting. Seems more like a PrC than a Base class, as that it feels highly specialized.

Blink Stalker
A revamping of the Elocater may be interesting.

Dragon Rager
Seen it done a few times. Seems like making it half-dragon specific would be restrictive, but I certainly have players that would wind up taking it. Still I wouldn't be terribly interested in it. Kind of done to death, as it were.

Enchanted Savant
Falls into the trap of the Kensai and/or the Soulblade. When a class feature is dependent upon an item, and/or the class feature is having an item. How would this differ from an Artificer?

Heavy Metal Rocker
I'd probably check it out, and steal some ideas. I suppose that's a good thing. I'd probably recommend debuffing rather than buffing, as that Heavy Metal is a more violent sort of thing.

Kairomancer
Seems vague. This could already be a Druid, a Sorcerer, or a Cleric.

Phoenix Lord
The description doesn't sound very interesting, perhaps more details could help?

Rope Master
I'd check this out. Sort of smacks of the Lasher, which has always had a warm spot in my heart.

Sniper
Long ranges aren't always a possibility, but if something gave a better Hide/Shoot option, I'm sure it would be popular in general.

Mulletmanalive

2012-02-09, 10:59 AM

I've seen a lot of these; I'm afraid many of them fell to my basic dislike of casters, some more immediately than others. These are my thoughts, either recalled or based on your summaries:

Mime: Looked in it, saw it was a caster, remembered the last time I was handed a spell list and told that it could cover everything with a little reflavouring and wandered off. The simple knowledge that I was going to have to do most of the work in setting things up to do things was a massive turn off.

Had it imitated objects like a mime actually does, and done it directly, it would have gotten a full read from me.

Blink stalker: Haven't encountered. I'd probably look if it were innate or psionic in form. I can already do what this class does with Arcane Trickster, so it would have to impress if it were arcane.

Dragon rager: Haven't encountered. Totemic rage plus isn't all that new. I rarely bother reading race specific classes all the way through unless they're tied to a setting; i suspect a lot of folks feel the same way.

enchanted savant: Christmas Tree Syndrome, the class. I read some of it, decided it was too much in the hands of the GM and gave up. I actually like the principle, i like the idea of legacy item classes [UA] but unless they're a core part of the game, they're going to get ignored in favour of being awesome under your own power.

heavy metal rocker: Not read. I've seen the bardbarian so many times before and i've never been impressed. I'm afraid this one just fell under low expectations; I'm sure it was a well made class though.

kairomancer: Not encountered: Weather magic is cool, even if I tend to ignore casting classes. I probably would have looked on favourably as long as the casting didn't go to 9 [i tend to find that any additional class features are completely drowned out by casting progressions that go past level 7 spells].

phoenix lord: Haven't encountered. Interesting idea. Would have to be pretty solid, mind, Jade Pheonix Adept already covers the concept pretty well. Would be going in with a positive eye.

rope master: Haven't encountered. As long as it's only 5 levels or less, i could certainly get behind this.

sniper: Not encountered your take. These kind of classes are always entered with trepidation by anyone who's actually played one of these classes before. They tend to be static and unengaging.

Make sure there is a wow factor early in the text and it should get read.

My 2p, hope it didn't seem too harsh.

Mystify

2012-02-09, 03:08 PM

Just throwing my two bits in, for whatever they're worth.

Mime
Mildly interesting. Seems more like a PrC than a Base class, as that it feels highly specialized.

Dread necromancer, beguiler, and warmage are also highly specilized, but they are base classes.

Enchanted Savant
Falls into the trap of the Kensai and/or the Soulblade. When a class feature is dependent upon an item, and/or the class feature is having an item. How would this differ from an Artificer?

Its dependant on haveing items, but it can use any item. Artificers are the oppisite, but complimetary, class for them. Artificers make items really easily, and are good at using wands and scroll, making constructs, but are not directly intended for melee. An echanted savant takes whatever items they happen to have, and makes them more powerful and gets extra uses. Artificers spend a long time to add in extra abilities that have nothing to do with the base item, enchanted savants take the existing abilities and enhances them easily.
It is slightly dependent on the campaign, as they will fall apart without the proper WBL in magic items, but its not intended for campaigns like that.

Heavy Metal Rocker
I'd probably check it out, and steal some ideas. I suppose that's a good thing. I'd probably recommend debuffing rather than buffing, as that Heavy Metal is a more violent sort of thing.

Most of their abilities are offensive, or more "Angry" buffs, like invoking your rage in somebody else, giving weapons the thundering property, or doubling your bardic music effects for around.

Kairomancer
Seems vague. This could already be a Druid, a Sorcerer, or a Cleric.

The weather spells are split between druid and arcane, for the most part. Think of it like a beguiler, or a dread necromancer, only with weather control. It has a surprisingly fleshed out and versatile spell list.

Phoenix Lord
The description doesn't sound very interesting, perhaps more details could help?

They deal a lot of extra fire damage with their melee attacks, wreath themselves in flame, distort the air to create a displacement effect, throw flame as a ranged attack, or create a flame burst around them. Meanwhile, they scale up in fire resistance, eventually gaining the fire subtype and healing from fire. Asa capstone they get a phoenix style rebirth abilty.

Sniper
Long ranges aren't always a possibility, but if something gave a better Hide/Shoot option, I'm sure it would be popular in general.
It doesn't need long ranges, but it works with them.

I've seen a lot of these; I'm afraid many of them fell to my basic dislike of casters, some more immediately than others. These are my thoughts, either recalled or based on your summaries:

Mime: Looked in it, saw it was a caster, remembered the last time I was handed a spell list and told that it could cover everything with a little reflavouring and wandered off. The simple knowledge that I was going to have to do most of the work in setting things up to do things was a massive turn off.

Had it imitated objects like a mime actually does, and done it directly, it would have gotten a full read from me.

They do imitate objects directly like a mime does. Its one of their core abilities. They just have a spell list to create effects beyond that. Combatively, they are kind of like a soul knife, in that they create their own magic weapon. Unlike a soul knife, I didn't think that was worth an entire class, and added an entire suite of mime powers in addition to it.

Blink stalker: Haven't encountered. I'd probably look if it were innate or psionic in form. I can already do what this class does with Arcane Trickster, so it would have to impress if it were arcane.

It was actually based on shadow magic. One of the highlights was that teleporting next to someone would catch them flat footed.

Dragon rager: Haven't encountered. Totemic rage plus isn't all that new. I rarely bother reading race specific classes all the way through unless they're tied to a setting; i suspect a lot of folks feel the same way.

I just thought it was silly that, if you want to usea breath weapon as a primary feature of your character, a half dragon who gets a breath weapon is the worse way to go about it.

enchanted savant: Christmas Tree Syndrome, the class. I read some of it, decided it was too much in the hands of the GM and gave up. I actually like the principle, i like the idea of legacy item classes [UA] but unless they're a core part of the game, they're going to get ignored in favour of being awesome under your own power.

Yeah, they are fairly campaign specifc.

heavy metal rocker: Not read. I've seen the bardbarian so many times before and i've never been impressed. I'm afraid this one just fell under low expectations; I'm sure it was a well made class though.

I found it amusing, but I doubt it would fit into a more serious game.

kairomancer: Not encountered: Weather magic is cool, even if I tend to ignore casting classes. I probably would have looked on favourably as long as the casting didn't go to 9 [i tend to find that any additional class features are completely drowned out by casting progressions that go past level 7 spells].

Their casting does go to 9, but they have class features designed to be relevant at that level. For instance, they have a weather focus that makes their spells of a certain type work better. Their capstone is perfect weather control, which is like the control weather spell on steroids.

phoenix lord: Haven't encountered. Interesting idea. Would have to be pretty solid, mind, Jade Pheonix Adept already covers the concept pretty well. Would be going in with a positive eye.

My class has a lot more emphasis on fire. The jade phoenix mage is probably stronger simply because its base in ToB classes combined with spellcsating, whilst mine is intended for monks, but my actual class features are much stronger, because it has to make up for monk.

playswithfire

2012-02-09, 10:20 PM

Quick, top of my head responses made without looking at others comments, so sorry if there's some redundancy:
Mime(base class): - Interesting, but the first thought that comes to mind is "isn't there some sort of penalty to attacks for using a weapon you can't see?" That said, I like the silent aspect of it, and I like the image of him making an invisible wall and either making a character run into it or flinging it at them, etc, but then I start to think that I'd rather see this is as just one aspect of a sort of Dark Jester class (somewhere between Villainous Harlequin (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VillainousHarlequin) and Monster Clown (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MonsterClown))

Blink stalker: A class that lets me be Nightcrawler? I'd at least give it a try. I know you're not discussing mechanics, but I, personally, would like this to in some way involve the Shadow Hand discipline from Tome of Battle, either as a PrC or possibly a swordsage ACF

Dragon rager: it'd have to do some convincing to get me to do this instead of just playing a Dragonfire Adept

enchanted savant: Meh. Interesting concept, but it wouldn't be my first choice unless it had more of a 'Tinkerer' feel; maybe related to either artificers or warforged

heavy metal rocker: In the right game, it'd be fun, but "heavy metal rocker" just doesn't square with D&D to me

kairomancer: It's got to be better than Stormlord, so, maybe; I don't play caster's much

phoenix lord: Fire's nice and all, but a lot of classes do impressive things with fire, including Jade Phoenix Mage

rope master: This one I would like to know more about. I like Justiciar's hog-tie and a full class that did that and other interesting things with rope could be fun

sniper: I don't really like ranged, beyond maybe the throwing knife type, so not my cup of tea

Mystify

2012-02-09, 10:52 PM

Quick, top of my head responses made without looking at others comments, so sorry if there's some redundancy:
Mime(base class): - Interesting, but the first thought that comes to mind is "isn't there some sort of penalty to attacks for using a weapon you can't see?" That said, I like the silent aspect of it, and I like the image of him making an invisible wall and either making a character run into it or flinging it at them, etc, but then I start to think that I'd rather see this is as just one aspect of a sort of Dark Jester class (somewhere between Villainous Harlequin (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/VillainousHarlequin) and Monster Clown (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MonsterClown))

The idea is that they have to pantimime using the weapon so well, that the universe itself believes they are swinging a weapon. This means that the person they are swinging at can clearly tell what they are doing as well, so the net effect is that they are using the same attack modifiers as everyone else. They are very good at making invisible walls.

heavy metal rocker: In the right game, it'd be fun, but "heavy metal rocker" just doesn't square with D&D to me

Yes, it is a less serious class suited for sillier campaigns. I knew that when I made it.

kairomancer: It's got to be better than Stormlord, so, maybe; I don't play caster's much

I'm looking at it now, and kairomancer definitely beats stormlord at weather control. On the other hand it is a potent combination with stormcaster, simply because the stormcaster's affects apply to most everything they do. However, straight kairomancer still has its perks.

[rope master: This one I would like to know more about. I like Justiciar's hog-tie and a full class that did that and other interesting things with rope could be fun

I've been struggling with precisely how I want to implement it. My initial draft turned into "perfrom combat manuevers at range with a grappling hook", which wasn't the feel I wanted. On the other hand, they could dual weild grappling hooks and swing around like spiderman :smallbiggrin:

Alokue

2012-02-10, 11:46 AM

Mime
Eh. Isn't that one Psion class that uses a mind-blade a lot like this? I'd have to see some interesting mechanics to become interested.

Blink Stalker
It's been said in previous posts that this is a revamp of a couple other classes. I like the idea, but unless it offers something new, or a simpler way to achieve said goal, I don't see a reason to go to the work of creating it.

Dragon Rager
Eh. I don't see basing a class completely around a breath weapon as really any fun at all. I can see people taking a PrC like this, but...I wouldn't.

Enchanted Savant
Sounds awesome, maybe as a PrC meant to go with artificer. Otherwise it'd be far too up to the DM. But I really like the whole makes magic items stronger bit. I have trouble believing that you'd be able to balance it.

Heavy Metal Rocker
I don't care for the flavor. If you gave it a more realistic tinge I might be interested, but still probably not.

Kairomancer
Eh. Could be kinda cool, but I feel like you could just edit the druid a bit.

Phoenix Lord
The description doesn't sound very interesting, perhaps more details could help? -- I agree with this.

Rope Master
Sounds like you could do the same thing with a whip. That might be a good place to start.

Sniper
I like the idea, but DMs often aren't willing to say whether a campaign will be fitting, especially for characters who don't do well inside at all.

Eldest

2012-02-10, 11:54 AM

I've made quite a few classes in my time, but they receive inequal attention from players and readers on the forums. I'm trying to figure how much of that is mechanical differences, and how much is conceptual.

So here is a list of the class concepts, with no mention of what the precise mechanics are. Tell me if that concept sounds appealing, and why or why not:

Mime(base class): A silent caster who creates invisible weapons and items out of force, and has a variety of force-based spells

Seems interesting, I'd want to look at it.

Blink stalker: teleports around the battlefeild and attacks things unexpectedly

Also seems interesting, like the ultimate skirmisher.

Dragon rager: a half-dragon prestige class that elevates their breath weapon to a potent attack

... meh. There are some other things that do this already, from what I know. And I personally don't much like dragons.

enchanted savant: A class that amplifies and boosts the effects they get from magic items

I think a gear-dependant character isn't an amazing idea. Maybe if he could provide his own stuff?

heavy metal rocker: A bard/barbarian multiclass that combines rage and bardic music to rock out and invoke a variety of sonic effects and party buffs

Interesting mix, I don't like the name a ton.

kairomancer: A weather-based spellcaster

Both the name is interesting and the idea. Lot's of lightning, I'm guessing.

phoenix lord: channel the power of your phoenix ancestory to get a variety of fire based buffs

Interesting.

rope master: utilize a rope to perform a wide variety of tasks and combat maneuvers

This, I really want to see. Cool sounding trick, can have lots of applications.

sniper: make single, powerful shots from long range

Eh... been done a lot.

My comments are bolded in the quote.

Mystify

2012-02-10, 06:30 PM

Mime
Eh. Isn't that one Psion class that uses a mind-blade a lot like this? I'd have to see some interesting mechanics to become interested.

Its very different from the soul knife. The soul knife decided that making a weapon was a class. Which made it into a really horrible class. Making an invisible weapon is merely one class feature, and its not the focus. It has a lot of interesting mechanics packed in. For instance, they get "pantomimes", which are kinda like spells, but they are silent, and must have somatic components. They can use them at will based on a Pantomime check. The class is solidly tier 3, compared to a soul knife's low tier 5.

Enchanted Savant
Sounds awesome, maybe as a PrC meant to go with artificer. Otherwise it'd be far too up to the DM. But I really like the whole makes magic items stronger bit. I have trouble believing that you'd be able to balance it.

It is specifically noted in the class that they go with artificers very well.

Kairomancer
Eh. Could be kinda cool, but I feel like you could just edit the druid a bit.

Just like you could get a beguiler by editing a sorcerer? Its a beguiler type class, only with weather control.
[/QUOTE]

Seems interesting, I'd want to look at it.

Interesting mix, I don't like the name a ton.

Yeah, I hate the name too, but I haven't been able to think of a better term. What do you call someone who performs heavy metal?

Both the name is interesting and the idea. Lot's of lightning, I'm guessing.

The name comes from the actual greek root for weather. And yes, it has a lot of lightning, but it is a suprisingly verstile class. Fog effects, cold spells, lightning, wind, rain, water... They have some fair blasting power, and a decent spread of utility power and battlefield control.

Seems interesting, I'd want to look at it.

mime (https://docs.google.com/document/edit?id=1OIEhAKXEnSKBbNLVlOY1-5CNlPYe0N_n3w8rcsqd52A&hl=en)
This is the one class that I've had several people play. It fit in with the parties very well.

Eldest

2012-02-10, 10:57 PM

What if you had the bard-barbarian thing require dance and call it the Rage-Dancer? Dunno what else.

Mystify

2012-02-10, 11:05 PM

What if you had the bard-barbarian thing require dance and call it the Rage-Dancer? Dunno what else.
That would be an entirely difference class.

playswithfire

2012-02-11, 06:46 PM

I've been struggling with precisely how I want to implement it. My initial draft turned into "perfrom combat manuevers at range with a grappling hook", which wasn't the feel I wanted. On the other hand, they could dual weild grappling hooks and swing around like spiderman :smallbiggrin:

You might be able to adapt some things from Chthonic Serpent (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131567). It was originally designed for whips, spiked chains, and flail type weapons rather than ropes, but a lot of the style should work.