metamagic scribe scroll + metamagic school focus

[Phaederkiel]

I assume i can metamagic a spell i scribe into a scroll.

can i apply my metamagic school focus to that spell?


thx in advance

ps:
please help the unresolved ghost question:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232034
:smalleek:

[Tyndmyr]

A metamagic scroll is built using your abilities and limitations. If you have reducers, you can utilize them in this scroll creation. You're quite literally casting the spell as part of the scroll, so this is entirely normal.

[Brock Samson]

Doesn't Metamagic School Focus apply only to the casting of one spell 3/day? Does scribing a scroll equal casting a spell, or take day/s of concentration and effort? Just a thought.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I've actually run into this and similar (Divine Metamagic) as a DM, and I ruled it as follows:

1. Any items created using a metamagic reducing or alternate cost ability can only be used by a character with that same metamagic reducing or alternate cost ability. In this case, anyone trying to use that scroll would also need to have Metamagic School Focus for that particular school.

2. When using that magic item, you must use an activation of your metamagic reducing ability, or pay the alternate cost, just as though you were casting the spell normally. In this case, using that scroll would take one of your three daily uses of Metamagic School Focus. In the case of an item created with Divine Metamagic, it would take as many turn/rebuke uses to activate the item as it did when the spell was cast.

It does give you a reduced gp/xp cost for creating metamagic items, but using such items only save you daily spell slots, but no other limited daily resources.

[Tyndmyr]

I've actually run into this and similar (Divine Metamagic) as a DM, and I ruled it as follows:

1. Any items created using a metamagic reducing or alternate cost ability can only be used by a character with that same metamagic reducing or alternate cost ability. In this case, anyone trying to use that scroll would also need to have Metamagic School Focus for that particular school.

2. When using that magic item, you must use an activation of your metamagic reducing ability, or pay the alternate cost, just as though you were casting the spell normally. In this case, using that scroll would take one of your three daily uses of Metamagic School Focus. In the case of an item created with Divine Metamagic, it would take as many turn/rebuke uses to activate the item as it did when the spell was cast.

It does give you a reduced gp/xp cost for creating metamagic items, but using such items only save you daily spell slots, but no other limited daily resources.

I used a different solution...in short, crafters selling these items sell them for whatever the price would be without the metamagic reducer.

In short, it seems unlikely that a crafter would take a feat simply to reduce the value of the item he's selling. At a minimum, one would expect it to still be more total profit for the crafter.

If it's an oddball combination that allows the creation of something normally not allowed(such as a normally 5th level spell in a wand, or a 9th level potion), I would expect an additional surcharge for rarity, as the specialized crafter tries to maximize his return.

[Mystify]

I used a different solution...in short, crafters selling these items sell them for whatever the price would be without the metamagic reducer.

In short, it seems unlikely that a crafter would take a feat simply to reduce the value of the item he's selling. At a minimum, one would expect it to still be more total profit for the crafter.

If it's an oddball combination that allows the creation of something normally not allowed(such as a normally 5th level spell in a wand, or a 9th level potion), I would expect an additional surcharge for rarity, as the specialized crafter tries to maximize his return.

That works if you are purchasing the item, but what about the character who is mass producing scrolls of DMM persisted buffs? scrolls are cheap and only take a couple days to make, so you could easily stockpile a bunch of uberscrolls and cast them yourself, getting a huge resturn on your limited use metamagic reduction.

[Phaederkiel]

That works if you are purchasing the item, but what about the character who is mass producing scrolls of DMM persisted buffs? scrolls are cheap and only take a couple days to make, so you could easily stockpile a bunch of uberscrolls and cast them yourself, getting a huge resturn on your limited use metamagic reduction.

yep, thats about what i am going to try to abuse... making some scrolls of metamagically enhanced spells when i have leftover spells / downtime.
It mainly allows me to make scrolls I should be only able to make one spell lvl higher, since I can enlarge my acid breath even as a 5th lvl wizard.


the dm ok'd it (since my competition is a greenbound/ashbound druid, i will probably still be underpowered), but I will see that i offer him some mitigating possibilities.

[imneuromancer]

A metamagic scroll is built using your abilities and limitations. If you have reducers, you can utilize them in this scroll creation. You're quite literally casting the spell as part of the scroll, so this is entirely normal.

I had the same question a while ago in This thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227567).

Does anyone have any supporting material on either side of the case? It seems to me that there is a lot of interpretation involved with this case.

[Tyndmyr]

Well, by RAW, metamagic modifies a spell, yes?

And by RAW, the spell being cast is part of item creation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm).

For instance:

The creator must have prepared the spell to be scribed (or must know the spell, in the case of a sorcerer or bard) and must provide any material component or focus the spell requires. If casting the spell would reduce the caster’s XP total, she pays the cost upon beginning the scroll in addition to the XP cost for making the scroll itself. Likewise, a material component is consumed when she begins writing, but a focus is not. (A focus used in scribing a scroll can be reused.) The act of writing triggers the prepared spell, making it unavailable for casting until the character has rested and regained spells. (That is, that spell slot is expended from her currently prepared spells, just as if it had been cast.)

So, spells are used as if they have been cast for the purposes of crafting. This boilerplate text is repeated for each type of magic item, so it seems quite normal.

In the metamagic rules, we get the quote:


Magic Items and Metamagic Spells

With the right item creation feat, you can store a metamagic version of a spell in a scroll, potion, or wand. Level limits for potions and wands apply to the spell’s higher spell level (after the application of the metamagic feat). A character doesn’t need the metamagic feat to activate an item storing a metamagic version of a spell.

So, since it counts as having been cast, while you can obviously do this, level restrictions still apply, and creating the item counts as a use of your metamagic reducer, if one was in fact used to create it.