Challenge accepted! (Wizard build)

[Icestorm245]

Alright, so I know the basics about wizards and can effectively play one in a low-op to mid-op group. But I was just arguing with my friend about the effectiveness of a wizard. He was saying that a reaping mauler could easily beat one! Absurd! Then he said something along the lines of "You can't possibly know what to prepare every single day". To which I replied "Yes, I can. There's a school of magic that's exactly for that." And he said "Fine, next campaign play a wizard and we'll see about it." I accepted the challenge, and I just told him to be fair, we need to use the rules by the books. No house ruling or anything else just because it makes sense in our heads.

So my objective here is, starting at first level, is to break the game as a wizard. Low levels eluded me with them, seeing their potential only really open up around 5th level. He says I'm going to hate him, so I can already see him making every single thing attack me every single encounter. He will use everything any anything to break me. So I am going to do the same back. This is not going to be nice, but I have to do it to prove a point, and as I mentioned, I just understand the basics. Please, help me out.

[prufock]

Low levels are more difficult for a wizard, mainly because of the squishy d4 hit die. You have about 6 hit points, maybe as high as 8. Also, you obviously have less spell options, and limited spells per day.

Precocious Apprentice is a decent choice, as it will give you one 2nd-level spell per day (and an extra slot when you can cast 2nd level spells anyway). Invisibility at first level is not a bad deal. Only lasts a minute, but that's enough time to set up your tactics. Alter Self is also a 2nd-level spell; Lizardfolk and Troglodyte are good choices for the natural armor.

At low levels, your best strategy is probably not figuring out what specific spells to prepare for given challenge X in a day. Instead, prep spells that have near-universal usefulness.

Grease is more or less save or lose.
Mage Armor is necessary to not die, and Shield might be good too (though it is more limited in duration).
Charm Person is save or be my friend.
Sleep is save or lose.
Color Spray is save or lose.
Nerveskitter. Win intiative. Just win it.
Just remember to target saves that should be low on the enemy (Fort on wizards and rogues, Will on burly guys, Ref if you have no other option). The best stuff at this level has will saves, but try to spread out your options.

Use your familiar. Remember, it can share your spells, so Alter Self/Invisibility/Mage Armor all work on it. At low levels, I'd recommend a snake (tiny viper) which you could dismiss for something better later. Poison @ 1d6 con/1d6 con. True, the save is low, just don't use it on burly fighter types.

Another option at low levels is to take a feat like Fell Drain along with some metamagic reducer. Cast a 0-level spell (+2 for Fell Drain -1 for MM reducer = 1st level spell) that does damage and the target loses a level. You know what happens when you lose a level at level 1? Dead. No save, either. Just make sure you know Ray of Frost, Acid Orb, or similar.

Other ideas:
Arcane Disciple for Plant or Protection domain. Your first level domain spell: either Entangle or Sanctuary.
Buy a horse. Cast Power Word Pain, ride horse away.

EDIT: Oh, and REAPING MAULER?! Is he crazy? A RM means you're at least level 6. At level 6, wizards have Gaseous Form. You've just negated the mauler's main tactic, and you can still cast spells (provided you have Still Spell, Eschew Materials, and/or Silent Spell, depending on the components).

[gbprime]

You're using all the rules from all the books? That means you're using retraining rules from PHB2.

Given that, take Precocious Apprentice (Scorching Ray or Balor Nimbus) and then take Fiery Burst reserve feat. From first level, you can produce 2d6 or more of AoE fire damage every round so long as you haven't cast your Precocious Apprentice spell. Then you can retrain the reserve feat into a prerequisite feat at level 5 or 6 when you're ready for your prestige class.

[Icestorm245]

Yeah I guess at level 1 they are pretty squishy. Precocious Apprentice + Firey Burst sounds like a blast. What book is Precocious Apprentice from? Maybe a wizard with mage armour, nerveskitter, shield and the aforementioned combo would make a rather good first level wizard. I could lose the familiar for immediate magic (conjuration) to get Abrupt Jaunt, but is it worth losing my familiar? Especially since later on I could take a dire tortoise and abuse celerity?

[Rebel7284]

Abrupt Jaunt at level 1.

Heart of Water at level 5.

Metamagic School focused cantrips is certainly a powerful idea too. =)

[Suddo]

I'll assume a more classical wizard and not a gish wizard. Questions:
Flaws? Traits? Books allowed?

I'd suggest being a specalizing in conjuration. Probably banning Necro and Evocation (I think). Getting Abjurant Jaunt from PHBII in place of familiar, then get fighter feat instead of scribe scroll from Unearthed Arcana. The trade for scribe scroll is a little iffy. Also take Cloudy Conjuration at first level it can really help battle field control. You turn, when you know something is going to charge you, could be Mount, placed between you and the opponent, Blockade placed on the next nearest side, then you place to clouds of gas on the other two sides. The only way for them to get near you is to go all the way around and if they do you just Abjurant Jaunt away leaving them between all that crap again. Summon a monster to block the way again, putting another cloud down, basically keep it up til you have enough crap on the field to make his day really bad.

Hopefully when he does attack you he doesn't pop you at the end of the day. Though you can still win its a lot harder.

Oh and if you want to cheese it up and you have flaws Rainbow Servant is pretty easy to get into early and gives some nice things. In fact Rainbow 4 gives you wings so. If you go human wizard 1/ Rainbow Servant you can get into it pretty easily.


Edit: Oh wait you can't blockade and Abjurant Jaunt in the same round, damn action economy, but you get my point.
Edit: Edit: Precocious Apprentice is Complete Arcane 181.

[gbprime]

You don't want to trade in Scribe Scroll. That's your contingency pile, right there. Overall, scrolls are cheaper than Wands for spells you don't use all the time. (Like keeping extra Heart of Water and Heart of Earth spells handy when you need to be in a SECOND fight that day.)

[Icestorm245]

No flaws. I never liked them. In fact, I'd rather take the penalty and not the bonus feat that comes with them. I just don't see a reason why you should have bonus feats just because you're not as good at something as someone else is. I have to use a classical wizard because if I win using a gish he'll just say "pfft, he's not a wizard, he's a fighter with spells". Heart of Water and Earth spells are from where? Sorry, I'm not all that familiar with spells =P

[Icestorm245]

Sorry for the doublepost, but my post above didn't put the thread at the top of the forum for whatever reason.

[Need_A_Life]

I'd go: Conjuration Specialist (Barred: Enchantment, Necromancy) going for Malconvoker. Don't dump Cha and invest in Bluff [or a +skill item]
Precocious Apprentice: Scorching Ray and Fiery Burst is decent at 1st. Retraining will be needed later, though.
You could also use Melfs Acid Arrow and Acidic Splatter for single-target rays (though 10ft. range hurts).
Spell Mastery [bear with me a moment] at 1st level (or Eidetic Wizard, from Dragon), then Uncanny Foresight at 3rd. You're a semi-spontaneous spellcaster!
Precious Apprentice: Alter Self can be (ab)used with your familiar.
Familiars get feats! And you get to customize them! Ability focus (poison), concentrated venom and the thousand other poison-enhancing feats makes a viper truly deadly.
Abrupt Jaunt is a fair trade-off, though not one I tend to make, but it'll definitely help against grapplers (barring the Tetori monk archetype from Pathfinder).

[Bovine Colonel]

I'd PrC into Incantatrix as soon as possible. It's like normal Wizard but with all sorts of metamagic and spell hijacking goodies. Also, Archmage.

Edit: Also, grab Arcane Thesis (a spell you'll be using a lot). For example, a Twinned Empowered Energy Admixture'd Searing Invisible Orb of Fire is a 7th level spell slot if you have Incantatrix 10 and Arcane Thesis (Orb of Fire). Single target, touch attack (in other words, use a Quickened True Strike to autohit), no save, bypasses SR, bypasses fire resistance, half-bypasses fire immunity, 45d6 fire, 45d6 different energy type of your choosing. Maybe choose Cold and add the Piercing Cold metamagic feat at no cost? Someone tell me if I'm not calculating this right please.

[Hiro Protagonest]

Well, fighter can't become Pun-Pun at level 1.

Anyway, you can either go Fiery Burst or Improved Initiative. You can't use Abrupt Jaunt if you lose initiative because you're flat-footed. So Improved Initiative + Nerveskitter + Grease + Crossbow + Abrupt Jaunt, or Nerveskitter + Grease + Fiery Burst + Abrupt Jaunt.

Edit: Wait. Martial Wizard. You lose Scribe Scroll, but you gain a fighter bonus feat. Now you can have both Improved Initiative AND Fiery Burst!

[Chronos]

I'd go: Conjuration Specialist (Barred: Enchantment, Necromancy) going for Malconvoker.Did you mean to bar Evocation? Barring Enchantment is a really bad idea, for starting at level 1. I'll take Charm Person over Burning Hands any day.

[Calanon]

From the looks of it this is just a battle of player Vs DM where the DM will invariably win. I can imagine it going a little bit like this...

*Long day of battling monsters in the dungeon of cult of Orcus*
Wizard: Ah that was a wonderful day, I completely destroyed the cult single handedly and completely defeated everything while the BSF was sitting in the corner crying...

DM: You get ambushed in your sleep, Its the cult of Orcus and they want revenge so roll a new character, Told you that Wizard sucks! :smalltongue:


Unless someone wants to tell me a place where the Wizard can sleep without being ambushed by the local cult of whomever or whatever at lvl 6 :smallamused:

[kulosle]

Well there is the trick to get 9th level spells at 1st level. If I remember correctly it's something like, Elvin generalist and domain wizard with versatile spellcaster. Elvin generalist gives you one extra spell of the highest level spell you are able to cast and domain wizard gives you one spell of each level you can cast. Use versatile spell casting to be able to cast 2nd levels spells and you immediately gain two new spells. Repeat this process till you have 9th level spells. Depending on your int you end up with 1-3 spells of each spell level.

[kardar233]

From the looks of it this is just a battle of player Vs DM where the DM will invariably win. I can imagine it going a little bit like this...

*Long day of battling monsters in the dungeon of cult of Orcus*
Wizard: Ah that was a wonderful day, I completely destroyed the cult single handedly and completely defeated everything while the BSF was sitting in the corner crying...

DM: You get ambushed in your sleep, Its the cult of Orcus and they want revenge so roll a new character, Told you that Wizard sucks! :smalltongue:


Unless someone wants to tell me a place where the Wizard can sleep without being ambushed by the local cult of whomever or whatever at lvl 6 :smallamused:

Rope Trick is a 2nd-level spell. Grab Extend Spell and you're safe all night.

[Wings of Peace]

Well there is the trick to get 9th level spells at 1st level. If I remember correctly it's something like, Elvin generalist and domain wizard with versatile spellcaster. Elvin generalist gives you one extra spell of the highest level spell you are able to cast and domain wizard gives you one spell of each level you can cast. Use versatile spell casting to be able to cast 2nd levels spells and you immediately gain two new spells. Repeat this process till you have 9th level spells. Depending on your int you end up with 1-3 spells of each spell level.

Close. You need some method of spontaneous casting such as Alacritous Cogitation or Magical Training: Sorcerer (my preferred method). Normally this can be done at level 1 with flaws. Also, Elven Generalist does not "grant" a bonus spell (this is the important part), it allows a Wizard to prepare an extra spell of the highest level he can cast each day. Once he prepares that spell Domain Wizard tacks on an extra slot.

Because the OP doesn't want to use flaws I recommend going Forestlord Half-Elf and using the variant rule for racial subtypes from Races of Destiny. This will allow him to take the Elven Generalist/Domain Wizard combo at level 1 as well as a spontaneity enabling feat and then at level 2 he can take a level in Half-Elf Paragon for a bonus feat that can be spent on Versatile Spellcaster. Later on this will also allow him to go into Halruaan Elder if he wants.

Edit: Technically he could also take Immediate Magic: Conjuration since the Immediate Magic line of ACFs aren't part of the arcane specialization option from the Player's Handbook.

[Need_A_Life]

Did you mean to bar Evocation? Barring Enchantment is a really bad idea, for starting at level 1. I'll take Charm Person over Burning Hands any day.
If you're going Fiery Burst you need Scorching Ray. It is, unless I'm misremembering Evocation.

Enchantment has some nice spells, but it has the same problem Illusion does; people eventually get almost blanket immunity to it. Unlike Illusion, Enchantment cannot make me invisible. :smallbiggrin:

[Icestorm245]

If you're going Fiery Burst you need Scorching Ray. It is, unless I'm misremembering Evocation.

Enchantment has some nice spells, but it has the same problem Illusion does; people eventually get almost blanket immunity to it. Unlike Illusion, Enchantment cannot make me invisible. :smallbiggrin:

Couldn't I do this with lesser orb of fire? I suppose scorching ray is better in the long run, though.

[gbprime]

If you're going Fiery Burst you need Scorching Ray. It is, unless I'm misremembering Evocation.

That's why I also listed Balor Nimbus. It's transmutation, and very few people dump that school.

[Rebel7284]

No flaws. I never liked them. In fact, I'd rather take the penalty and not the bonus feat that comes with them. I just don't see a reason why you should have bonus feats just because you're not as good at something as someone else is. I have to use a classical wizard because if I win using a gish he'll just say "pfft, he's not a wizard, he's a fighter with spells". Heart of Water and Earth spells are from where? Sorry, I'm not all that familiar with spells =P

Complete Mage.

[dextercorvia]

Sorry, I'm not all that familiar with spells =P

This is the biggest flaw in your plan. Playing a Wizard well requires system mastery, and an encyclopedic knowledge of your options(the spells). You can still play an overpowering wizard accidentally, or with a bit of help, but you need to know what goes where, and when. We can mainly help you with the what, unless you bring us to the games with you via smartphone.:smallwink:.


Couldn't I do this with lesser orb of fire? I suppose scorching ray is better in the long run, though.

You could, but Fiery Burst deals damage based on the level of the spell that you are holding in reserve, which is why you want a 2nd level spell for it.

[BoutsofInsanity]

The wizard is awesome, However, if your starting at level 1 and the dm wishes to kill you to prove a point, you are going to die. "Oh look the party is ambushed by assassins in the tree, surprise round, two arrows are shot at you, they hit, average of 6 dmg and you die."

You need to clarify with the dm that its going to be a fair game, that he will dm just how he normally does, throwing appropriate fun encounters at the party, playing the monsters to their intelligence level (Brutish dumb monsters do not automatically identify the wizard and charge them the first turn...) otherwise the experiment is corrupted and neither of you get to argue your point, because the dm is always stronger then the wizard.

Player: I cast super cool spell here
Dm: Sorry, in an antimagic zone, no magic here, oh look, an opposing party of evil adventurers show up, all martial heroes. good luck!

[Snowbluff]

Freedom of Movement on you, or Enlarge person on him (he'll lose ALL of his RM class feature).

[Godskook]

No flaws. I never liked them. In fact, I'd rather take the penalty and not the bonus feat that comes with them. I just don't see a reason why you should have bonus feats just because you're not as good at something as someone else is.

You lack resolve. You are not yet ready to take on this challenge. When you realize that you must do what it takes to win, then, and only then will you be ready, even with your 'flaws'*.

*And the feats that come with them.

[CIDE]

Close. You need some method of spontaneous casting such as Alacritous Cogitation or Magical Training: Sorcerer (my preferred method). Normally this can be done at level 1 with flaws. Also, Elven Generalist does not "grant" a bonus spell (this is the important part), it allows a Wizard to prepare an extra spell of the highest level he can cast each day. Once he prepares that spell Domain Wizard tacks on an extra slot.

Because the OP doesn't want to use flaws I recommend going Forestlord Half-Elf and using the variant rule for racial subtypes from Races of Destiny. This will allow him to take the Elven Generalist/Domain Wizard combo at level 1 as well as a spontaneity enabling feat and then at level 2 he can take a level in Half-Elf Paragon for a bonus feat that can be spent on Versatile Spellcaster. Later on this will also allow him to go into Halruaan Elder if he wants.

Edit: Technically he could also take Immediate Magic: Conjuration since the Immediate Magic line of ACFs aren't part of the arcane specialization option from the Player's Handbook.

Is there a thread that elaborates on this entire build...? And can the trick be done with a Sorc (I prefer them to wizards for fluff purposes)?

[Gavinfoxx]

Unless someone wants to tell me a place where the Wizard can sleep without being ambushed by the local cult of whomever or whatever at lvl 6 :smallamused:

No Problem! Lesser rod of Extend Spell. Rope Trick.


The wizard is awesome, However, if your starting at level 1 and the dm wishes to kill you to prove a point, you are going to die. "Oh look the party is ambushed by assassins in the tree, surprise round, two arrows are shot at you, they hit, average of 6 dmg and you die."

That doesn't happen because you focused on Initiatve and Abrupt Jaunt out of the way...

[Hiro Protagonest]

That doesn't happen because you focused on Initiatve and Abrupt Jaunt out of the way...

He said surprise round. You're surprised. No initiative, no immediate actions.

[Gavinfoxx]

I could have sworn there are some immediate actions you can specifically take on a surprise round somewhere... or when you are otherwise flatfooted. Nerveskitter maybe?

Unfortunately, the things to negate surprise rounds come online later in the wizard's career; there isn't a whole lot you can do early on about them...

[dextercorvia]

Is there a thread that elaborates on this entire build...? And can the trick be done with a Sorc (I prefer them to wizards for fluff purposes)?

Here is one: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10197586&postcount=9


Sorcerer can do it later in life with a little help from Anima Mage, but it is a slower process in general. They would have to replace Domain Wizard with a bloodline feat, and Power in the Blood.

[Elboxo]

Challenge him to his own game, if he is playing a Reaping Mauler. Octopus familiar, Improved Unarmed Strike ( Fighter feat variant ), Improved grapple.

Alter Self to large size, Bull's Stength and fearsome tentacles. At level 7: Polymorph into Treant (Base grapple is +22) and add things as you wish, you can get it to around 40 at level 7 without too much trouble. Then grapple the reaping mauler who will have +19 and think he has you cornered, and force him to make willsaves or be stunned/dazed ( Fearsome Tentacles ).

Of course Abrupt Jaunt + Shivering Touch works better, but where's the fund in that?