Healing options for all classes?

[Mighty_Chicken]

Hi guys!

I don't know if this belongs to Homebrew - I think it doesn't, because I don't want to specifically talk about my house rules, but I want everyone's thoughts in the subject. But if I posted in the wrong place I am sorry.


So, I was trying to DM a low-fantasy (almost historical) campaign. Coincidentally, none of the players wanted to play a cleric or a wizard. Better for me. But this got me worried, I like harsh combats, are those guy's battles fated to be short and only one each day?

The whole problem is not having a cleric in the group. We were gonna play a 3.5 game (with a lot of house rules) and there were 4 players: a barbarian, a bard, a paladin, and a monk. I decided to give the Pally lay on hands since level 1, the monk the ability to heal 1d8 damage once a day, and the bard spells a level earlier, so he could cast Cure Light Wounds.

Worked at the time; but could had worked better. So I tought, if a party role is missing, why don't give everybody a little of that party role?

In PF, it would look something like this:

Barbarian
Sadism (Ex): the Barbarian's pleasure for his foes' pain reinvigorates him. Such joy is contagious.

If the Barbarian hits an opponent, he can spend rage rounds to heal a number of hit points up to the damage he caused to the opponent. If an ally hit the same opponent in that turn, the Barbarian can split the healed hit points between himself and the ally.

(I actually feel that it can't be that simple. At the same time I don't want to add to much rules. But I wanted a condition so the Brb could use this ability. Maybe a) the barbarian must success on a Intimidate check (which won't shake the opponent); or b) the opponent must me shaken already; or c) the Brb can only use the ability when he slays a foe)

Bard
Onward!: the bard can cheer up his allies even in the middle of a losing battle.

As a _____ action, the bard can heal an ally's hit points, spending one Bardic Performance round per hit point healed. The ally must be able to hear the bard and be up to 30 ft from him. This doesn't cause attacks of opportunity.

(I haven't decided if this should be an Ex or Su ability, or if it should be a move or standart action)

Monk
Ki point pressure (Ex): the monk knows how fix the energy flow in a sick person's anatomy.

By spending one Stunning Fist use, the Monk can cure 2 hit points from an ally. He can only do so if the ally is still. If the ally has negative hit points, this heals 5 hit points (the ally won't be healed to more than 1 HP). This is a standart action that doesn't cause attacks of opportunity.

(Even in Pathfinder I house rule that Monks have level+Wis Stunning Fist uses per day)

Paladin
Martyrdom (Su): A paladin's very presence is inspiring and comforting. If people only knew how tiresome this can be.

As an immediate action, the Paladin can heal any number of hit points of an adjacent ally, up to his level+Cha. The ally gets an AC bonus equal to the Paladin's shield, if any. The Paladins takes the same number of hit points he healed as damage.

(I want to tinker this a bit, both for utility, balance and flavor. But then again, I'm afraid to add too much rules. Some things I'm thinking about: a) make the damage non-lethal; b) make this ability burn a Lay on Hands or Smite Evil use; c) make this ability only usable level+Char times a day, on once per encounter; d) make the damage healed to be level+Con instead of level+Cha; or even levelx2 or levelx3; e) take the AC bonus out, or change it somehow)

Ranger
A ranger joined the party later. I have no good idea yet, but I'm thinking about the Ranger being able to harvest up to some quantity of blessed fruits each day. Those fruits would heal a fine quantity of HP outside of battle, or could be consumed in-battle as part of a move action, but for few hit points (1d2 in the first levels). Something like that.


Miscellaneous
- At those abilities are supposed to work only at first levels. Later, I'd figured out new abilities, upgrade these ones, or make the players get really scared of losing hitpoints.

- All the abilities are supposed to: be inferior to clerical healing; cost the characters their effectiveness on their prime roles (the Barbarian lose rage rounds, the Paladin lose hit points, etc); be VERY unique and different from each other (my previous "1d8 per day" idea was just lame); and be strongly linked to the class's theme.

- All the abilities are supposed to cure more hit points out of battle.

- The Heal skill is supposed to actually cure hit points. Not sure how yet.

- I'm considering hit points to be much more than physical health. I'm considering it to be moral, courage, agility, anger, divine bless and heroic destiny. I expect someone who was cured from 1 hp back to 80 hp to be in a pretty messy state, bleeding, probably hobbling from a leg, but fighting at 100%

- Yes, Vitality/Wound points system sounds like a great idea. Maybe I'll try that. I enjoy the idea of battles being dangerous, but survivable even if something goes wrong.

What do you guys think? Are the abilities useful or balanced? What could be the abilities for other classes? Specially in low magic settings?

Don't you think that what goes for healing could go for utility/skill-monkeyness too? I mean, if there is no bard/monk/rogue in the group, maybe all classes could somehow get kind-of-useful abilities to use outside battles?

[Chronos]

Just toss them a few wands of Cure Light Wounds in treasure. Both the bard and the paladin can use them, since it's on both of their spell lists (the fact that they can't cast it yet themselves is irrelevant for a wand).

[Mithril Leaf]

Definitely seconding the wands of cure light wounds. They are widely regarded as one of the most effective cost to healing ratio wands, and with the party taking the classes the are, it would fit nicely. Other wands can come in handy later if they have a similar problem, at least if the bard is taking UMD, which he should be.

[Mystify]

And a third vote for wands of cure light wounds. Little in-combat healing is not a problem, as long as they can top off between encounters.

[Hashmir]

You're already aware of it, but I really do think that the Vitality and Wound Points (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/vitalityAndWoundPoints.htm) system is perfect for what you want. More importantly, I think it takes a lot of pressure off of you, as the homebrewer, to get every one of the classes' healing abilities perfectly balanced, since they are not the primary/only source of healing.

So, here's what I would do. Start with the basic Vitality/Wound Points rules. Add on the abilities you described in the OP, adjusted such that they are costly but powerful - as you say, they all rely on sacrificing combat effectiveness, but in return they would be quite capable of rescuing someone who took a crit or a series of nasty hits. The idea is that healing in this manner is a tactical, in-combat decision, while the normal V/WP regeneration takes care of out-of-combat healing.

I think that this could work quite well, while keeping the feel of your original description. Thoughts?

EDIT: This isn't directly related to your question, but some of the stuff you've mentioned makes me think that the bell curve rolls (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/bellCurveRolls.htm) variant rules might also be a good fit for your campaign. Matter of preference, of course, but I thought I'd bring them to your attention in case you weren't aware of them.

[Novawurmson]

The Healing Belt from the Magic Item Compendium is only 750g. It's great for low-level parties.

[watchwood]

I ran a scifi magic-less campaign for a while that was heavily based on the D20 system. My solutions were an increase the rate of natural healing, and have the heal skill provide temporary hit points.

[Gavinfoxx]

Have you read the guide to healing without clerics?

http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=2710

[Mighty_Chicken]

wands of Cure Light Wounds

Thanks! That's great advice. Also, why didn't I handled them some Cure Light Wounds potions? They'd be useful enough for the first levels. Also,


The Healing Belt

guide to healing without clerics?[/url]

Great ideas for further levels. Really useful link for future campaigns.

Still, I plan to do a low-magic campaign, with few dependency on magic items. I'll actually use an idea from Legend, where you can only use a certain quantity of magic items at a certain time.



So, here's what I would do. Start with the basic Vitality/Wound Points rules. Add on the abilities you described in the OP, adjusted such that they are costly but powerful - as you say, they all rely on sacrificing combat effectiveness, but in return they would be quite capable of rescuing someone who took a crit or a series of nasty hits. The idea is that healing in this manner is a tactical, in-combat decision, while the normal V/WP regeneration takes care of out-of-combat healing.

I think that this could work quite well, while keeping the feel of your original description. Thoughts?

Thanks, I think you got very well what I meant. I'm actually thinking this idea could be so fun I don't even want clerics in my campaign anymore!

I don't feel that much pressured to balance things... I think balance is only about avoiding game-breakers, and nothing else. The "my character is useless" syndrome is not going to happen given every character has unique abilities which they can actually use somewhere.

Which brings to tactics... I think both this healing system AND the V/WP system add a lot of tactics. I think I'm making the V/WP system even a little grittier. I'll add that characters hurt to half their WP will get some kind of penality (beyond the shaken status).

But the V/WP system has its flaws and needs tinkering... The bigger example: Barbarians are overpowered. The risk to fall uncious after the rage is over is almost unexistent; actually, the risk of falling uncious during combat is very low at all for a Barbarian in this system. And Barbarians would be the only class that could actually slay a foe with a single blow at the first levels (with critical hits; also consider that PF Barbs have a Rage Power that confirms all critical threats, AND the Critical feats...).

Also, with PF rules for dying, no one would ever die! You'd had to beat high PF hit points, than Constitution score, than, Constitution again! The group's paladin has Diehard, he would be like an invencible zombie...

I can't think of anything else right now... but I really like that ALL battles would be dangerous, and yet, there would be room for taking risks, changing tactics, etc.


Anyway, do you think maybe the healing options should be stronger? I already plan on advancing them for further levels.

Bell curve:
I'm already going to use bellcurve rolls with opposed skill checks. But I'm afraid to use them on combats. It changes everything too much.

If you're using 3d6, anyone with a +2 modifier above his foes is a god, and anyone whose modifier is at a -2 disavantage is helpless. Without bell curve, at level 1 a DC 15 is something is you'd think before trying, a DC 20 is something hard, but maybe worth the try. With bell curve, DC 15 is hard if untrained, free win if trained, and DC 20 is almost impossible. Without bell curve, AC 13 is a goblin and AC 18 is the level boss. With bell curve, AC 13 is a three-legged dog and AC 18 is boss from 4 levels ahead.

I thought about using 2d10 (I'm really considering use it for all skill checks), it's far more close to d20 in randomness. But it would be homebrewer hell to adjust all those ELs, feats and freaking Barbarians who would have +5 or +6 modifiers at first level.

But I totally see your point. Bell curve fits both "alternate healing" and V/WP system: makes the combat grittier, more predictable and much more strategic. Do you have any experience with using the bell curve?


My solutions were an increase the rate of natural healing, and have the heal skill provide temporary hit points.

Gonna do it, but will make Heal skill actually heal hit points (not in combat).

EDIT: Hey, what you guys and gals think would be good healing class features for Fighters, Rogues, Sorcerers and Wizards? What about the alternate classes from 3.5 and PF? Or what others class features you would hombrew for the classes I already talked about?

[hex0]

Draconic Aura (Vigor) feat?

[deuxhero]

Whatever it is, just don't do "healing surge".

[Gavinfoxx]

Thanks! That's great advice. Also, why didn't I handled them some Cure Light Wounds potions?

Because of the price. They could sell a useful amount of CLW potions for, you know, a ridiculous amount of money-- they have a terrible price / performance ratio.

Consider:

1 CLW Potion. 50 gp, average 1d8+1 hit points healed, or 5.5 hp, or 9.09 gp/hp.
1 CLW Wand. 750 gp, 1d8+1 * 50 hit points healed, or 275 hp, or 2.72 gp/hp
Even better:
1 wand of lesser vigor (spell compendium). (on Cleric and Druid and Archivist list, but not Paladin or Ranger) 11 *50 hit points, or 550 hit points, for 750 gp. Or 1.36 gp/hp.

A potion of cure light wounds, or a potion of faith healing tied to the particular deity of the person in question (again, from spell compendium), is useful to be poured into the mouth of someone who is unconscious in order to get them to be useful in combat, ie, to immediately save a life. Every character should have one, and maybe a healing belt, as well. But for real, actual HEALING -- which should be done between combats, you want wands.

[deuxhero]

Or take TTS with a Dread Necromancer 0GP/HP!

[DrDeth]

I like your basic ideas.

I had this stuff, cost was 5pgs per dose, healed 1d3 (or 1d4) per wound applied to with a DC10 Heal check. A check of 20+ healed max auto. Note that it could only be applied once per wound. But it was good for after battle healing and was mostly non-magical.

But here’s some ideas for classes: allow some sort of ability so can heal after combat at the rate of 1 hp/10 minutes, maybe using a bard song or a rage of a Ki point, etc.

[Mystify]

Draconic Aura (Vigor) feat?

That aura is underappreciated. I can significantly cut down on your healing expenditures.

[Hashmir]

Which brings to tactics... I think both this healing system AND the V/WP system add a lot of tactics. I think I'm making the V/WP system even a little grittier. I'll add that characters hurt to half their WP will get some kind of penality (beyond the shaken status).

But the V/WP system has its flaws and needs tinkering... The bigger example: Barbarians are overpowered. The risk to fall uncious after the rage is over is almost unexistent; actually, the risk of falling uncious during combat is very low at all for a Barbarian in this system. And Barbarians would be the only class that could actually slay a foe with a single blow at the first levels (with critical hits; also consider that PF Barbs have a Rage Power that confirms all critical threats, AND the Critical feats...).

Also, with PF rules for dying, no one would ever die! You'd had to beat high PF hit points, than Constitution score, than, Constitution again! The group's paladin has Diehard, he would be like an invencible zombie...

I can't think of anything else right now... but I really like that ALL battles would be dangerous, and yet, there would be room for taking risks, changing tactics, etc.

Anyway, do you think maybe the healing options should be stronger? I already plan on advancing them for further levels.
I will admit that I have no experience with Pathfinder, and I've never actually played in a game with the V/WP system. So it's possible that this problem could be solved with some simple number tweaking, or that something would need to be fundamentally changed to work properly - but I'm afraid I don't have any personal insight on either front.

If you want to use it, though, I'm sure someone else could help balance it.


Bell curve:
I'm already going to use bellcurve rolls with opposed skill checks. But I'm afraid to use them on combats. It changes everything too much.

If you're using 3d6, anyone with a +2 modifier above his foes is a god, and anyone whose modifier is at a -2 disavantage is helpless. Without bell curve, at level 1 a DC 15 is something is you'd think before trying, a DC 20 is something hard, but maybe worth the try. With bell curve, DC 15 is hard if untrained, free win if trained, and DC 20 is almost impossible. Without bell curve, AC 13 is a goblin and AC 18 is the level boss. With bell curve, AC 13 is a three-legged dog and AC 18 is boss from 4 levels ahead.

I thought about using 2d10 (I'm really considering use it for all skill checks), it's far more close to d20 in randomness. But it would be homebrewer hell to adjust all those ELs, feats and freaking Barbarians who would have +5 or +6 modifiers at first level.

But I totally see your point. Bell curve fits both "alternate healing" and V/WP system: makes the combat grittier, more predictable and much more strategic. Do you have any experience with using the bell curve?
Looks like you've already covered everything I might have suggested - 3d6 for skill checks only, 2d10 as an alternative, etc.

As for the effects of 3d6 on things like AC, I must again defer to anyone who has actual experience running such a campaign. You're correct in that there is some skewed math involving characters like barbarians who have much higher modifiers than their party members, but I couldn't say whether that merely adjusts the party's tactics, or if it completely destroys encounter balance.