Shackled City conversion to Pathfinder(possible spoilers)

[wraithstrike]

The idea is for myself and another post to start working on a conversion. We will most likely be fielding questions later so I would like to ask for no post here until a later date.

edit:The no-post clause has been removed. If anyone wants to join in on the project let us know.

[Sgmendez]

It is I, the great Sgmendez. And I shall work hard to get this project completed for all of man, elf, and dwarven kind (and all the other humanoid and non humoid races out there as well).

Edit: Just to clarify Wraiths statement and change of decision. I feel that if anyone wishes to assist that they should be able to. Now I would appreciate it if those that have no interest in assisting please do not post at this time.

[wraithstrike]

How do you plan to convert the sections other than the number crunching part(characters and traps and spells)?

Do you want each of us(anyone participating) to do a section, and then have it checked over by the other contributors?
As an example we could each do an event section.
For the dungeon however, due to the size we could each be assigned certain rooms.

[Sgmendez]

I think organizing it like that is a great idea. First we should probably organize what needs to get converted. Starting with the introduction and Chapter 1.

[wraithstrike]

I do have the book or should I say a friend's copy of it.
Introduction:
The introduction is flavor and story so most of that is ok.
It has DC's for knowledge checks. I think they should stay the same.
Cauldron is a small city. I guess we can use the book stats unless you want to limit purchases to the shopkeeper who as very specific items. If not the size won't really matter.

Skie has prices, and most magic item prices have not changed from 3.5 to Pathfinder so that should not be an issue.

On page 27 there is a random encounter chart
The hill baboons might have to be reworked by applying a template to gorillas.

The spawn of Kyuss can be pathfinderized. I actually did that for my Age of Worms campaign. I can post the stats once I find them to see if everyone agrees with them.

The megaraptor can be replaced by a young Allosaurus.

[Sgmendez]

Here is my suggestion of the breakdown just to clarify what I mean:

Introduction

Background Info - Most of this information stays the same. Anyone who wishes to just go over everything and make sure that we are not missing anything is welcome to.
Cauldron Info - Again most of this info remains the same, though the settlement stat block could be updated to match current material and information. Some skill usage can be updated to use the Pathfinder skills.
Exploring Cauldron - Like above mainly just skill terminology needs updating. Though whomever works on this area may want to double check item costs, ad hoc XP, and any other NPC info that needs updating.
Exploring the Cauldron Region - This area mainly just needs the random encounter tables updated with Pathfinderized versions or new monsters from the Bestiaries to maintain their original challenge.
Ending Notes - Any last editing notes that you think we could include for the Introduction section.

Chapter One - Life's Bazaar

Introduction - Mostly story info so nothing really needs updated. Though double checking never hurts.
Event 1: The Accosted Priest - The encounter and NPCs involved need updated.
Event 2: The Church of St. Cuthbert - NPCs need updating.
Event 3: The Lantern Street Orphanage - Same as Event 2. Patch needs an update and skills need converted.
Event 4: Meeting the Striders - NPCs need updated and skills need converted.
Ghelve's Locks - Encounter, NPCs, and any other DCs need updating. Depending on if we want to use Pathfinder Gnomes or not Keygan may need a major change in appearance.
Jzadirune Features - Update any features to Pathfinder equivalents.
Rooms J1-J11 - Rooms need NPCs, items, traps, etc. updated.
Rooms J12-J22 - See above.
Rooms J23-J33 - See above.
Rooms J34-J44 - See above.
Rooms J45-J55 - See above.
Rooms J56-J63 - See above.
The Malachite Fortress Features - Update any features to Pathfinder equivalents.
Rooms M1-M11 - Rooms need NPCs, items, traps, etc. updated.
Rooms M12-M22 - See above.
Rooms M23-M34 - See above.
Event 5: Vhalantru's Intervention - Encounter and NPCs need updated.
Ending Notes - Any last editing notes that you think we could include for the Chapter One section.


Most of this is self explanatory but I just want this job to be a thourough one that people will look back and be "Those people who did all of this conversion stuff are super awesome and will be idolized for all of time!", now I know that it won't happen like that but a man can dream.

[wraithstrike]

The XP charts don't work like they did in 3.5 so we can use the 3.5 chart or figure how much XP is in each chapter using the Pathfinder method, then go back and adjust the ad-hoc XP based off of that.

[Sgmendez]

That was the idea. To make sure that characters can make it to the appropriate levels when they need to be. So XP that is awarded based off of CR will probably be similar if not the same, but the Ad Hoc will need to be upped to represent the same percentage of a level.

Example of What I Mean:

3.5e -> Lvl 1 to Lvl 2 = 1,000 XP
PF -> Lvl 1 to Lvl 2 = 2,000 XP

So 100 XP in 3.5e (10%) is the equivalent of 200 XP in Pathfinder (10%) at this point. Looking at it at the bigger points (20th level):

3.5e -> Total XP Needed for 20th Lvl = 190,000
PF -> Total XP Needed for 20th Lvl = 3,600,000

.05% of 190,000 XP is about 100 XP
.05% of 3,600,000 XP is about 1,895 XP

So yeah, there is some work cut out for us in this department. But I am sure we can figure something out. And we may need to take each level of the game separately when it comes to this area of the XP math.

[wraithstrike]

I think we should use the fast track for pathfinder. It is much closer to the 3.5 method. It makes our work easier, and it makes the game less dependent on ad-hoc XP, which is often just bonus XP. It made life much easier when I ran AoW. I did not even have to do anything special except for chapter 3, but the XP is off in chapter 3 of AoW even when using 3.5 XP standards.

2nd 1,000 3.5
2nd 1,300 Pathfinder

edit:They both need about 13 fights to level up if the CR is equal to APL so I doubt the ad-hoc XP will have to be changed much

[wraithstrike]

No volunteers. No this is not a disguised bump. :smallsmile:

[wraithstrike]

I will try to at least cover the first two events to see if any monsters need to be replaced of it they have been converted in one of the 3 bestiaries.
Depending on how long that takes I might go on to the other events.
I have already done the introduction as far as what monsters need to change, and possible stand-ins.

[Sgmendez]

I think we should use the fast track for pathfinder. It is much closer to the 3.5 method. It makes our work easier, and it makes the game less dependent on ad-hoc XP, which is often just bonus XP. It made life much easier when I ran AoW. I did not even have to do anything special except for chapter 3, but the XP is off in chapter 3 of AoW even when using 3.5 XP standards.

2nd 1,000 3.5
2nd 1,300 Pathfinder

edit:They both need about 13 fights to level up if the CR is equal to APL so I doubt the ad-hoc XP will have to be changed much
That is a solution. Though I disagree with Ad-Hoc being just bonus XP, personally I feel that the story awarded XP is a better way to award XP than just combat + traps. But that is a personal preference.

Using the Fast track would make it easier and with very little conversion, though I wanted it so that we just did conversions and didn't assume any play style or choices, like XP tracks, WBL, etc. That way the GM still has control over that and the adventure stays the same.

But thinking about it, all current APs assume the Medium so it should be fine to assume the Fast for this one.

As a note, I started writing this response before you posted the above. LOL, we both decided to get on at the exact same time.

OK, thanks. I am at work at the moment so I don't have the book on me to do any conversions right now, but since it is the weekend it will be easier for me to do. I will start going through Jzadirune.

[wraithstrike]

That is a solution. Though I disagree with Ad-Hoc being just bonus XP, personally I feel that the story awarded XP is a better way to award XP than just combat + traps. But that is a personal preference.

Using the Fast track would make it easier and with very little conversion, though I wanted it so that we just did conversions and didn't assume any play style or choices, like XP tracks, WBL, etc. That way the GM still has control over that and the adventure stays the same.

But thinking about it, all current APs assume the Medium so it should be fine to assume the Fast for this one.

As a note, I started writing this response before you posted the above. LOL, we both decided to get on at the exact same time.

OK, thanks. I am at work at the moment so I don't have the book on me to do any conversions right now, but since it is the weekend it will be easier for me to do. I will start going through Jzadirune.
What I was saying was that the story XP is normally not needed to level up,even if it does help. I played with a group that only wanted to kill things, even though they died a lot :smallsmile:, and we still got enough XP to level up. Of course the GM could have been helping us out.

Even if we convert it to medium someone wanting to do the fast one will have too much XP, and someone using the slow one won't have enough. We could increase the ad-hoc XP for the medium track, which I don't mind. Putting it an appendix would work out. That would also make it so we don't have to tinker with the encounters, and it would make the RP aspect more important.

What we can do, even though it is more work on our part is to suggest that the GM's award less XP for the fights, and more for the ad-hoc situations.

I just got home a little while ago. I will post any suggestions to monsters in my next post, which will cover events 1 and 2.

PS:If you are going to do the dungeon then I will try to look at all the events except for the dungeon. Once I get that done we can split up whatever is left. I do have to work tomorrow, but I am off on Sunday.

[wraithstrike]

Listing every skill used on every page is a bit tedious. I am also sure seeing replace gather information with diplomacy to much will get old also, as an example. I think we should just make a chart with the 3.5 skills on one side, and the pathfinder replacement on the other side. The GM can even print it out and pass it onto the players if he likes so that if he says search the plays can look at it, and roll perception. The skills are close enough that it won't take long to catch on anyway.

[Sgmendez]

Listing every skill used on every page is a bit tedious. I am also sure seeing replace gather information with diplomacy to much will get old also, as an example. I think we should just make a chart with the 3.5 skills on one side, and the pathfinder replacement on the other side. The GM can even print it out and pass it onto the players if he likes so that if he says search the plays can look at it, and roll perception. The skills are close enough that it won't take long to catch on anyway.
No need to write it out for every moment. I was just thinking that in each area there would be a note or table to remind the GM what skills became what, and any changes to DCs, if any. But most of it won't need changing.

[wraithstrike]

When I do the XP count I will probably do it like this:

Chapter 1

Event 1

Page 1

goblin expert, CR 1, 400 xp

kobold expert, CR 1, 400 xp

Event 1:1700 total XP

-------------------------------
That is just for our notes so we can keep track of XP to make sure it stays in line with what the adventure is intended to have.

If you have another format you would like to use let me know. If we can use something that can be put into the actual pdf, and we can use for our notes so we don't have to reformat it later that would be nice.

[Sgmendez]

That layout works, though maybe make it a little easier to read. Something like this:

Chapter 1

Page 1


Event 1: Total XP



Challenge 1: XP



Challenge 2: XP


Event 2: Total XP

Page 2
Chapter 2

This way the indents can identify where there are and what they are for.

Sorry about not posting anything over the weekend. My son came down with something and it kind of keep me occupied, so I didn't get as much done as I would have liked.

[wraithstrike]

That layout works, though maybe make it a little easier to read. Something like this:

Chapter 1

Page 1


Event 1: Total XP



Challenge 1: XP



Challenge 2: XP


Event 2: Total XP

Page 2
Chapter 2

This way the indents can identify where there are and what they are for.

Sorry about not posting anything over the weekend. My son came down with something and it kind of keep me occupied, so I didn't get as much done as I would have liked.

I thought you had given up on the project, lol. This site was not playing nice with me at all. I like that format better than my idea. I am working extra hours this week, but I will get something up as soon as I can.

[Sgmendez]

Oh, that is perfectly fine. Life comes first. And my purpose for this (besides wanting others to have it easily accessible, is that I plan to run SCAP in about two to three weeks using the PFRPG.

Something that we may be able to do quickly that doesn't require any real number crunch is a Player's Guide. Something in the vein of the guides that the PF AP's use, given suggestions and info for each class and race, and giving campaign traits. A lot of this info is in SC but I would like to update it and make it look pretty like the current AP ones, and maybe update the traits to be more current and, well up to date.

So I should have the Jzadirune NPCs stated and posted in a Word doc this weekend, and I will start on the Player's Guide. About the stat blocks, I own Hero Lab but don't know how to enter in new creature data and since certain monsters are not in Pathfinder already I don't know how to proceed with that, any suggestions? I do know how to make new races (though not fast) and at some point I am thinking of making data files for SC so that others with HL can download and have all the info handy.

[wraithstrike]

Oh, that is perfectly fine. Life comes first. And my purpose for this (besides wanting others to have it easily accessible, is that I plan to run SCAP in about two to three weeks using the PFRPG.

Something that we may be able to do quickly that doesn't require any real number crunch is a Player's Guide. Something in the vein of the guides that the PF AP's use, given suggestions and info for each class and race, and giving campaign traits. A lot of this info is in SC but I would like to update it and make it look pretty like the current AP ones, and maybe update the traits to be more current and, well up to date.

So I should have the Jzadirune NPCs stated and posted in a Word doc this weekend, and I will start on the Player's Guide. About the stat blocks, I own Hero Lab but don't know how to enter in new creature data and since certain monsters are not in Pathfinder already I don't know how to proceed with that, any suggestions? I do know how to make new races (though not fast) and at some point I am thinking of making data files for SC so that others with HL can download and have all the info handy.

For some of the monsters, I made suggestion in an earlier post. For the others I will probably suggest a replacement, but if the monster does not feel right then I can pathfinderize the monster in question

[Sgmendez]

OK, so here is some information that I have done for Jzadirune:

Creatures Encountered Within:

Skulk (CR 2) x8
Choker (CR 2) x1
Captured Skulk (CR 4) x1 [Skulk w/ Raggamoffyn]
Common Raggamoffyn (CR 3) x2
Damaged Pulverizer Automaton (CR 3) x2
Small Monstrous Centipede (CR 1/4) x2
Grell (CR 3) x1
Dark Creeper (CR 3) x4
Yuathyb, Dark Stalker (CR 4) x1
Dread Guard (CR 3) x1
Medium Monstrous Spider (CR 1) x1
Small Monstrous Spider (CR 1/2) x2
Mimic (CR 4) x1
Hobgoblins (CR 1/2) x2


The following have Pathfinder equivalents:

Skulk (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/humanoids/skulk) (CR 1)
Choker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/aberrations/choker) (CR 2)
Sewer Centipede (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/vermin/centipede/centipede-sewer) (CR 1/4)
Dark Creeper (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/humanoids/dark-creeper) (CR 2)
Dark Stalker (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/humanoids/dark-stalker) (CR 4)
Giant Spider (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/vermin/spider/giant-spider) (CR 1)
Giant Crab Spider (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/vermin/spider/spider-giant-crab) (CR 1/2)
Mimic (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/aberrations/mimic) (CR 4)
Hobgoblin (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/humanoids/hobgoblin) (CR 1/2)

The only ones that may need some direct changing is the Skulk and Dark Creeper since they are a CR lower than the original. Though personally I think we should leave them the lower CR and make up the missing XP elsewhere if need be.

The missing ones are:

Captured Skulk (CR 4)
Common Raggamoffyn (CR 3)
Damaged Pulverizer Automaton (CR 3)
Grell (CR 3)
Dread Guard (CR 3)

All should be pretty easy to Pathfinderize.

[Sgmendez]

And here is breakdown of the current total XP, using the CR 1 Skulks & CR 2 Dark Creepers:
Skulk x8 (3,200 xp)
Choker x1 (600 XP)
Captured Skulk x1 (1,200 XP)
Common Raggamoffyn x2 (1,600 XP)
Damaged Pulverizer Automaton x2 (1,600 XP)
Small Monstrous Centipede x2 (200 XP)
Grell x1 (800 XP)
Dark Creeper x4 (2,400 XP)
Yuathyb, Dark Stalker x1 (1,200 XP)
Dread Guard x1 (800 XP)
Medium Monstrous Spider x1 (400 XP)
Small Monstrous Spider x2 (400 XP)
Mimic x1 (1,200 XP)
Hobgoblins x2 (400 XP)

Total XP: 16,000 (4,000 Each for a 4 Character Party)

So beyond converting those few I think we are good on the XP side if we are using the fast track, since you only need 3,300 to go up to level 3. And there is still all the events, Ad-Hoc XP, and the Malachite Fortress. Characters may actually reach 4th level by the end of Chapter 1 if they are thorough.

[wraithstrike]

I think any XP missing from things like Dark Creepers changing CR's can be made up in the ah-hoc XP areas.

The game was made to support 4 to 6 payers from what I understand so the additional XP should not be an issue. I will be off on Tuesday so I will have all day to get caught up, and post my events.

[Sgmendez]

To be honest, I don't think XP will be an issue. Chapter 1 was really high up there for a 1st level/2nd level adventure. Even back in 3.5 days

[wraithstrike]

I noticed that also. I was in a 6 man group and we still leveled up on time. I forgot to save my file. I will at least get event 1 redone tonight.:smallfrown:

[Sgmendez]

I noticed that also. I was in a 6 man group and we still leveled up on time. I forgot to save my file. I will at least get event 1 redone tonight.:smallfrown:
If I remember correctly, though I don't know where I heard/read it, SC is designed for 6 PC rather than 4.

[wraithstrike]

If the same creature has a different CR in Pathfinder then adding the simple advanced or simple young template can work. I don't mind doing the work.

We could also just make notes to add the templates so the GM can use those versions if he wants a slightly more difficult game. I think that is a fair compromise, and it saves us a little work.

---------------------------------
Chapter 1

Event 1
Street Thugs CR 1 x 3 =1200
Jil CR 6= 2400

Event 2
Jenya(friendly NPC) CR 6 =2400

Event 3
Commoners(friendly NPC's) 1/2 CR =200 each
Patch CR 1=400

Event 4
Fario Ellegroth CR 2 =600
Fellian Shard CR 2 =600
Keygan Ghelve CR 3 =800
Skulk still deciding on CR

Total XP 6000 not counting the skulk or Jenya(friendly NPC) or any commoners.



We have at least 20000 XP so far
A 4 man party would have 5000 per character which is 1000 below 4th level, and considering how difficult this AP is they will need it.

A 6 man party would end up with 3333, just over the 3333 needed to get to 3rd level.

[Sgmendez]

And that isn't even counting the Malachite Fortress.

[wraithstrike]

I am going to push on to chapter 2. I am supposed to be off on Monday so I should be able to get the XP totals up by Tuesday afternoon.

edit:unless you want me to take care of something in chapter 1 for you. :smallsmile:

[wraithstrike]

My day off has been pushed to Thursday. I can still do some work on chapter 1 if you need me to do it. Until then I will continue on chapter 2.

[wraithstrike]

I will have chapter 2 posted tomorrow.

[The Numerator]

Hey, is this still active?

I've been running SCAP in Pathfinder in a bi-weekly game for a little over a year now... the group is nearing completion of Chapter 2, but I've been finding that they are blowing through encounters with very little issues. I decided I'm going to start doing more work at truing up the encounters and stats for the BBEGs such that they match up better to the CRs liseted in the AP. However, as I am a first time GM (long time player), this seems very daunting and I could use input from others. Low and behold, I find this thread!

If you have progressed beyond Chapter 1 offline, I would love to see what you have accomplished so far to compare to what I've been doing. Also, I'd love to help with some of the heavy lifting, so just let me know how I can help!

[Borgut]

Too bad I've just seen it now :) I'm in the middle of Chapter two. Conversions have been on the fly so far, using Bestiary and Good Guess. I don't play with experience points, they will level up at at my will as appropriate for the adventure. For chapter three I plan more /better preparation and I'm willing to share

[Storycrafter]

I'm also about to start a PBP of SCAP on the Paizo forums. Looks like the work for the first module is done, so I'll chip in where i can as we approach the later modules.

If it's of use to anyone, I can create a wikispace in one of several places for us to use.

[wraithstrike]

I can still help out. I am thinking of running it myself. I just skimmed your post though. I will actually read it later on.

[ntzrmtthihu777]

Hello
I am rather interested in this project as I am running SCAP via maptools, and am converting it over to pf myself. I would like whatever info is already available, and would like to contribute as much as possible.

[zebuleon]

is this still going on? any links to completed conversions?

[joca4christ]

is this still going on? any links to completed conversions?

I second this! Looking for Pathfinderizations for Fario and Fellian.