Undead Moonbase

[Silva Stormrage]

Hello, I had a simple question since this is not my area of expertise. Assuming earth's moon for this question.

Would a undead lich and standard undead (vampires) be able to survive in the atmosphere of the moon with no ill effects?

Would they be able to build a stone fortress assuming they could get materials there through teleportation circles or another means?

I am pretty unfamiliar with the what exactly happens to an unexposed body in the moon. I would assume he would need some type of cold protection but I really don't know.

Thanks for the help :smallbiggrin:

[NinjaStylerobot]

Your body explodes. Because there is no pressure keeping your guts inside.

[Pokonic]

And bones would have nothing to hold on too, so nothing like gravity that keeps them from breaking off. So yeah.

[Piggy Knowles]

Your body explodes. Because there is no pressure keeping your guts inside.

Hmm. I was about to be dismissive, and say this isn't true, but apparently the reason you don't "explode" is because of the containing effect of your skin and circulatory system. A lich may not have either. Then again, a lich also may suffer no ill effects if his entrails wander away from the rest of his body, so I'd say it probably isn't a terrible concern.

Anyhow, relevant quote and link (http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/970603.html), from NASA's "Ask an Astrophysicist" column:


You do not explode and your blood does not boil because of the containing effect of your skin and circulatory system. You do not instantly freeze because, although the space environment is typically very cold, heat does not transfer away from a body quickly. Loss of consciousness occurs only after the body has depleted the supply of oxygen in the blood...

...At NASA's Manned Spacecraft Center (now renamed Johnson Space Center) we had a test subject accidentally exposed to a near vacuum (less than 1 psi) in an incident involving a leaking space suit in a vacuum chamber back in '65. He remained conscious for about 14 seconds, which is about the time it takes for O2 deprived blood to go from the lungs to the brain...

...You do not explode. Your blood does not boil. You do not freeze. You do not instantly lose consciousness.

[blackspeeker]

There shouldn't be a problem, it is a magically animated corpse, so it should be able to continue its unlife it also doesn't need anything to be immune to cold lichens already comewiththat. Vampires could also work on their secret moonbase

[Endarire]

By RAW, there's nothing wrong with Undead in spaaaaaaaace! Because they're Undead and don't need to breathe, see.

[DeAnno]

I think a corpse in space is basically fine, especially if it's dried out already. I think Liches (especially Dry Liches) would do pretty well, but Vampires might suffer some cosmetic damage and you could have some problems with parts of half rotted zombies exploding off. Skeletons, Ghosts, and similar probably wouldn't even notice.

[Rossebay]

Your body explodes. Because there is no pressure keeping your guts inside.

No, you don't explode. The body (especially one of a hardened, rigid and dry undead creature) doesn't expand enough to pop or anything. Putting a Lich out there is like putting a brick in space. Oh no! It got cold! If there's relatively little water contained within the body (and there should be little), they should be fine.


And yes, OP, undead could survive on the moon. There's minor gravity keeping them glued to the surface, and they have no need to eat, breathe, sleep, or drink. They're immune to cold damage and effects, and paralysis, things of that nature. They aren't going to take constitution damage from arterial damage via expansion, nor are their magically-rigged skeletons going to float off.

They're fine up there.

[Roxxy]

Undead moonbase.

I am in favor of this.

[Namfuak]

Presumably, they wouldn't have any particular problem with the lack of air, and the stones would stay on the moon's surface, so they wouldn't have any trouble building. The mortar would probably dry out a lot quicker though, so they would have to have all the blocks premade and have the undead put the mortar down and immediately put down the bricks on top right after.

And before anyone mentions it - things don't just "float off" on the moon. The moon has a significant gravitational pull, it's just less than the Earth's. That's why the astronauts don't go flying off into space, and there is even video of an astronaut dropping a pen (IIRC) on the moon and showing that it drops like it would on the Earth, albeit more slowly.

[Coidzor]

[QUOTE=Silva Stormrage;12691392]Hello, I had a simple question since this is not my area of expertise. Assuming earth's moon for this question.

Would a undead lich and standard undead (vampires) be able to survive in the atmosphere of the moon with no ill effects?

Would they be able to build a stone fortress assuming they could get materials there through teleportation circles or another means?

I am pretty unfamiliar with the what exactly happens to an unexposed body in the moon. I would assume he would need some type of cold protection but I really don't know.QUOTE]

The moon has gravity, it's just weaker than earth standard, so yes, things can be built there and not float away, nor would using a hammer make one go flying off into space. No comment on high strength throwers though. Undead don't need to breathe.

The only problem is whether they're close enough to the sun to take heat damage from being in its light or not. If it's the dark side of the moon they may take cold damage, but both of those are rather trivial for spellcasters to eliminate as dangers to themselves.

Wall of stone, move earth, lyres of building, all of those allow someone to build without laborers.

Though, really, on the moon you want to dig down, and reinforce things with materials such as Hardened Obdurium.

edit: And if you're really intent on building up, IIRC, you want a honey-comb, reinforced dome structure, to better protect against meteors, asteroids, and rogue comets. Which I'd say would require a lot of castings of wall of iron, and preferably would include the research of spells along the lines of iron to greensteel or iron to adamantine or just a spell of wall of obdurium.

Though at that point you might as well start using Glassteel and use a bottle of air+meatbags, ring gates, or some other means to supply the enclosed space with an atmosphere, along with a decanter of endless water to seed it with enough moisture for life and maybe even minor weather, depending upon the size of the dome.

[Venger]

Hello, I had a simple question since this is not my area of expertise. Assuming earth's moon for this question.

Would a undead lich and standard undead (vampires) be able to survive in the atmosphere of the moon with no ill effects?

Would they be able to build a stone fortress assuming they could get materials there through teleportation circles or another means?

I am pretty unfamiliar with the what exactly happens to an unexposed body in the moon. I would assume he would need some type of cold protection but I really don't know.

Thanks for the help :smallbiggrin:

Yep, they'd be fine. another forum member, Gensh has done this exact thing in a game, laughs were had by all

[Gensh]

Yep, they'd be fine. another forum member, Gensh has done this exact thing in a game, laughs were had by all

Except the only way to build a deathray with which to smite my earthbound enemies was to make several hundred ring gates and hope nothing ever knocked them out of alignment! :smalltongue:

But yeah, all you need to worry about is consistent cold damage and complete lack of air. Most if not all undead don't have to worry about breathing, so it's a matter of whether or not you have immunity to cold - liches do while vampires don't. The Stronghold Builder's Guide has some guidelines for building living-habitable bases, but it's prohibitively expensive, and I would probably throw the book out the window.

The things you need to worry about are:
Space junk hitting your base and breaking the walls/windows/whatever. For this reason, stone isn't really a good choice. Unless you're building underground.
Overheating. If you build with metal or invisible walls of force, you'll get roasted in your own base unless you have fire immunity or develop some form of shielding. Opaque walls of force may or may not solve this problem.
Getting stuff up there. The best method is to just use a permanent teleportation circle. Unfortunately, this means that you have to have been up there first. I've forgotten the calculation I used for actually flying there, but you can also string teleports "in that general direction." If you mess up, you can just wait eight hours to get your spells back. Make sure to protect yourself from space junk in the meantime.
Waste disposal. This is particularly an issue if you have living guests. Otherwise, you can just walk outside and throw your burnt out spell components or whatever into space. ... I wonder if copper pieces can survive atmospheric reentry. :smallamused:
Mindless undead being unused to the gravity. Unless you can get something to artificially generate earth-like gravity, you'll have them accidentally spacing each other, among other things, which makes them useless at work not covered by spells (which is why you have them in the first place).

[Arbane]

Can you cast verbal-component spells in a vacuum?

[Hiro Protagonest]

Silva, do you happen to read Dr. Mcninja?

Because in it, Dracula has a moon base. Of course, Adolf Hitler lives there, and Bruce Lee is living there after jumping to the moon.

[Mithril Leaf]

Now with enough minions, a lot of time, some decanters of endless water, and probably some burrowers, I would recommend hollowing out a base in center of the moon. You could seed it with water and air, bring up some plant and animals, maybe make a way to get back to Earth. It'd basically be like a demiplane, but in space. Also a good deal bigger :smallbiggrin:

[Silva Stormrage]

Silva, do you happen to read Dr. Mcninja?

I do but the dracula moon base was not what inspired me actually :smallbiggrin: It is hilarious in hindsight.

I didn't think about astroids hitting my base though. That is a problem, hmmm I could try and protect it with a wall of force for a small section thats above and then have the rest underground.

Also found an interesting wondrous architecture in Stronghold Builders Guide. Room of Confort, provides unlimited supply of air for a 10 by 10ft space for 7.5k gp. Just make a complete airtight area for my few living allies with lots of these and I should be good. :smallbiggrin:

[Coidzor]

I do but the dracula moon base was not what inspired me actually :smallbiggrin: It is hilarious in hindsight.

I didn't think about astroids hitting my base though. That is a problem, hmmm I could try and protect it with a wall of force for a small section thats above and then have the rest underground.

Also found an interesting wondrous architecture in Stronghold Builders Guide. Room of Confort, provides unlimited supply of air for a 10 by 10ft space for 7.5k gp. Just make a complete airtight area for my few living allies with lots of these and I should be good. :smallbiggrin:

If the air doesn't dissipate after it leaves the room, you can have one, maybe two of those and supply enough air for the entire facility.

I'm inclined to disagree with the comedy of having mindless undead destroy themselves as a result of differing gravities, myself.

Though, with regards to overheating is an issue, one way of providing cooling to the base would be to have a plumbing system full of water that pervades the entire base as well as a fairly extensive area outside of the base and under the lunar surface and away to move the water around, such as pumps that are powered by mindless undead. I believe this is fairly similar to a modern day geothermal heating technique. :smallconfused:

[Chronos]

Wall of stone, move earth, lyres of building, all of those allow someone to build without laborers.
The first two should be fine, but I think a Lyre of Building might be a sonic effect.

And meteors really aren't a problem. Yeah, the Moon has some pretty impressive craters on it, but that's just because the crater from every meteor that's ever hit it in the past four billion years has persisted. They're not all that common. In fact, meteors large enough to be destructive are about as common on the Earth as they are on the Moon: Do Earthbound liches worry about a meteor destroying their lair?

Nor is average temperature a problem. The Moon's the same distance from the Sun as the Earth is, so its average temperature is about the same, too. The atmosphere doesn't make that much difference.

You also wouldn't have to worry about material flying off into space accidentally (from dropping it, zombies losing their balance, or whatever). The Moon's gravity is plenty strong enough to prevent that for anything short of a very high-power firearm, and tripping zombies aren't remotely close to that fast.

And I'm not sure what materials you'd want to bring up from the Earth. There's plenty of rock already up there. Any amenities you might want (magic items, maybe some furniture, whatever) you could just bring with you when you go up, however you do that.

[erikun]

And meteors really aren't a problem. Yeah, the Moon has some pretty impressive craters on it, but that's just because the crater from every meteor that's ever hit it in the past four billion years has persisted. They're not all that common. In fact, meteors large enough to be destructive are about as common on the Earth as they are on the Moon: Do Earthbound liches worry about a meteor destroying their lair?
Earth has a very think atmosphere that burns up a lot of space debris before it hits the ground, which isn't there to protect the moon. That said, astronauts were not spontaneously killed by random micrometeors when they were there, and they just had plastic/polyester suits. I'm sure a lich with AC 40+ is tough enough to resist the occasional meteor shower.

I would be most concerned about vampires. The moon does not get any less sunlight than the earth, and doesn't have any structures or (likely) natural caverns to hide during those daylight hours. The "dark side of the moon" is named so because it is always facing away from earth; it still gets sunlight for half the day as well.

[TuggyNE]

And meteors really aren't a problem. Yeah, the Moon has some pretty impressive craters on it, but that's just because the crater from every meteor that's ever hit it in the past four billion years has persisted. They're not all that common. In fact, meteors large enough to be destructive are about as common on the Earth as they are on the Moon: Do Earthbound liches worry about a meteor destroying their lair?

Nor is average temperature a problem. The Moon's the same distance from the Sun as the Earth is, so its average temperature is about the same, too. The atmosphere doesn't make that much difference.

Actually, I beg to differ. The Earth's atmosphere makes a very large difference in both cases. A considerable investment was made in the Apollo lunar expeditionary modules and space suits, for example, to protect them from micrometeorites (similarly for nearly all other spacecraft to be honest). While you are not likely to have major impacts most of the time, delicate objects like unprotected scrolls would be destroyed within hours. On earth, nearly all incoming meteorites are destroyed by atmospheric friction before impact, and those that get through are still reduced in size and velocity by usually a large amount.

And as far as temperature goes... well, it's the difference between -200 F on the dark side, and 300-400 F on the lit side, if memory serves. Even the temperature gradients between crater rim and shadowed sides are probably easily 50-100 F in some cases.


Earth has a very think atmosphere that burns up a lot of space debris before it hits the ground, which isn't there to protect the moon. That said, astronauts were not spontaneously killed by random micrometeors when they were there, and they just had plastic/polyester suits. I'm sure a lich with AC 40+ is tough enough to resist the occasional meteor shower.

I wouldn't worry about the lich or vampire itself, no. Other than sunlight, they aren't going to have any hazards worth mentioning. But the space suits worn by the astronauts were in fact rather carefully designed to protect against micrometeorites. They were not simply plastic bags with oxygen pumped inside.

[DeAnno]

Can you cast verbal-component spells in a vacuum?

No. This could be an issue. Silent Spell feat or rods are probably a good idea.

Also the thing about overheating could be problematic, the surface of the moon gets up to 200*F or so during lunar day, which would conduct a lot of heat into anything touching that surface. Digging down underground and hiding there during daytime (2 weeks) eliminates this issue though.

If you were trying to build anything with mortar in any sort of conventional way, I doubt it would work since wet construction material will not dry properly on the airless moon. Of course using magic to shape the rock and then grunts to carve it up will work just fine.

EDIT: Come to think of it, Undead might not care about the heat thing. It isn't fire, its just heat, and even normally flammable undead won't light on fire in vacuum due to heat. So if they don't burn, and they don't melt, and they have no water content to vaporize, they might just be fine.

[Venger]

The first two should be fine, but I think a Lyre of Building might be a sonic effect.

lyre of building is not a sonic effect, so you don't need to worry. what you're thinking of (quite naturally) is bardic music, which you need to hear in order for it to do anything. since the target with the lyre is inanimate building materials, they don't need to "hear" the music for it to take effect. you're not inspiring them to great acts, you're manipulating them with telekinesis, so you don't care if they hear you or not. there's no mention of sonic or it not working in an area of silence, so this works fine.

however, it does call into account what a "week" is on the moon. how fast does the moon rotate again? isn't it faster than earth? or are we just gonna use earth terms like we do when travelling interplanarly for simplicity's sake?

[DeAnno]

however, it does call into account what a "week" is on the moon. how fast does the moon rotate again? isn't it faster than earth? or are we just gonna use earth terms like we do when travelling interplanarly for simplicity's sake?

A Lunar day is roughly a month: daytime lasts 2 weeks followed by nighttime lasting 2 weeks. The temperature swings are as extreme as you would expect from this.

[Venger]

A Lunar day is roughly a month: daytime lasts 2 weeks followed by nighttime lasting 2 weeks. The temperature swings are as extreme as you would expect from this.

cool. spells that last 1/day per level or 24 hours (persists, anyone?) wil be even sweeter on the moon.

[Chronos]

I think that spells with a duration measured in days last for a particular amount of time, not a particular number of revolutions of the rock you're standing on. Otherwise how would you calculate durations on, say, the elemental planes?

And micrometeorites might be a problem for scrolls or the like, but folks were talking about reinforcing a stone structure to withstand them. Any stone structure sturdy enough to support its own weight isn't going to have to worry about micrometeorites.

Oh, and even if a lyre of building isn't actually a sonic effect, you'll certainly certainly get a circumstance penalty on the skill check for not being able to hear it as you're playing it.

[Calanon]

Your body explodes. Because there is no pressure keeping your guts inside.

Quite right. The Lich has to have his/her phylactery on a place where he can fully regenerate with an atmosphere otherwise he'll explode due to lack of pressure...

But yes Undead can live in space; Case and point? The Atropus and the Angels of Decay along with all the other undead that inhabit his/her/it rotting flesh survive without folly. In all fairness mortal characters shouldn't even be able to defeat Atropus ever... since you need to go into space on top of him to defeat him and i'm confident we know what would occur... its a very VERY bloody scene really :smallamused:

[Coidzor]

^: Needs more bleu.
Oh, and even if a lyre of building isn't actually a sonic effect, you'll certainly certainly get a circumstance penalty on the skill check for not being able to hear it as you're playing it.

Eh, being deaf doesn't give a penalty on perform, and a penalty'll be easy enough to circumvent if you're casters capable of getting to the moon.



Deafened

A deafened character cannot hear. She takes a -4 penalty on initiative checks, automatically fails Listen checks, and has a 20% chance of spell failure when casting spells with verbal components. Characters who remain deafened for a long time grow accustomed to these drawbacks and can overcome some of them. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#deafened)

[Crasical]

I sort of remember there being a second edition cleric spell that created a bubble of air around you, for spelljammer adventures.

Maybe a bottle of air and a magic bubble of some sort to cast in until you have the beginnings of your base made up with wall of X?

[Rossebay]

It's not the heat you should be worried about. As previously stated, the atmosphere doesn't do THAT much in the way of protecting us from heat... It adds head. Venus, with its Carbon-heavy atmosphere, traps just about all the heat that hits it, and it's molten. Earth has a thinner atmosphere (also, it's farther away) so it can't trap as much heat.

The moon, not having an atmosphere, needn't much worry about the heat.

The radiation, on the other hand, is a worry. It'll slowly break apart the undead as they're exposed to unfiltered radiation by the lack of an atmosphere and electromagnetic field. The moon doesn't have such things, no spinning soft iron core to create it. Now, it's not like 60 seconds of exposure is going to destroy the undead, but I lack knowledge of how much damage it would actually do.

1 point of damage per minute? Maybe 2? I won't speculate further on that, though. The rapid addition and subtraction of energy (EM Waves and the cold environment) could easily stress the body.

[Wookie-ranger]

The moon, not having an atmosphere, needn't much worry about the heat.

The radiation, on the other hand, is a worry. It'll slowly break apart the undead as they're exposed to unfiltered radiation by the lack of an atmosphere and electromagnetic field. The moon doesn't have such things, no spinning soft iron core to create it. Now, it's not like 60 seconds of exposure is going to destroy the undead, but I lack knowledge of how much damage it would actually do.

1 point of damage per minute? Maybe 2? I won't speculate further on that, though. The rapid addition and subtraction of energy (EM Waves and the cold environment) could easily stress the body.

agreed, heat is not really a problem. cold more so, when the sun goes down everything freezes; but as mentioned, most undead have cold resistance.

good point about the radiation. it is a problem, but more along the lines of 1 point of damage per day, or even per week. not entirely sure how skeletons and Liches are affected by radiation, since bones are made out om mineral and effectively immune to radiation. one might argue that boney undead are immune, but fleshy undead take 1 point of damage; and only when they where mostly in direct exposure to the sun for that week (ie, more then 50% of the time)
you could also ague that undead are immune to radiation. since radiation is only damaging to living tissue and not to objects (for all practical purposes) for the sake of argument one might say that they are immune to disease and there for to 'radiation sickness' but its rind of a stretch

[Kobold-Bard]

Can you cast verbal-component spells in a vacuum?

A Lic could since it's voice is just a magically powered sound effect, but undead with lungs & a voice box might have some trouble.

[Sdonourg]

What a coincidence! I'm DMing a PbP campaign right now, where a vampire builds his base on the moon. I think, I can extract some useful information from this thread.

[DigoDragon]

Funny thing, my current campaign actually has an undead moonbase (among other places). :smallbiggrin:

The way I put it together, most undead seem fine in a vacuum as they don't have any biological functions to worry about. The "juicier" undead (like fresh zombies) might split open from the vacuum, their insides leak out and the liquids evaporate. Eh, they'll live unlive though, they don't need the organs so they still work. They just look like they came off an autopsy table.

Vampires are an interesting case though. I don't have one on the moon, but if I did, he'd probably want to stay out of the sunlight anyway (for obvious reasons). Also, I believe vampires need part of their digestive tract for absorbing blood. Nothing in the rules seem to state that, but I think it's not unreasonable to make such a call.
Besides, the image of a vampire in a powered spacesuit sounds cool. :smallcool:

Of course the easiest fix for the vacuum is to give your vampire a Necklace of Adaptation. It specifically states it'll protect you from a vacuum. Plus, verbal component spells should work, even though no one outside the bubble of air could hear the vampire's words (Ohhh, free Silent Spell?)


Speaking of spells, I've made some research into how several of them would work funny (or not work) on the moon. Fire spells would instantly snuff out without oxygen. Sonic doesn't work without air (though it doesn't have to be oxygen). Lightning and acid could travel in a vacuum, but I cut the ranges down by half (with acid doing half damage as it vaporizes in flight). The Reverse Gravity spell works, but slowly since gravity is weak on the moon. Force spells should work fine, as do earth/stone shaping spells. Polymorph spells could potentially be become "save or die" spells when your Necklace of Adaptation suddenly melds into you and stops working.
I'm still working out spells and effects that require "Day/night" cycles.

Of course, your mileage might vary from mine.

[Venger]

The radiation, on the other hand, is a worry.

no rules for radiation damage = no need to worry about taking radiation damage. you're safe on that front

[Nerd-o-rama]

I would like to reiterate for everyone who didn't read earlier in this thread that bodies do not explode from lack of pressure. There is simply not enough pressure differential between the human body and a vacuum to get past all the skin and connective tissue (and undead that don't have those tend not to have internal organs, and definitely don't need them.)

The oxygen and liquids in a body (if any) would eventually boil out, though, which might be a problem for vampires depending on how exactly they store and process blood.

What undead would need to worry about is mostly the Cold (which most of them are immune to). Solar radiation would cause at most superficial damage to the undead that still have skin on them - except, of course, for vampires.

Honestly, out of all the undead, vampires are probably the least suited for living on the moon, the awesomeness of Dracula's moonbase (http://drmcninja.com/archives/comic/11p18/) and Kinoko Nasu's weird-ass moon vampires aside. Liches and skeletal undead, however, are probably the most suited, especially since a high-enough level lich could just teleport up there, and it'd make a damn good place to start building a phylactery protection fortress.

[Chronos]

The only radiation worth worrying about is that from the Sun, and even undead that aren't specifically hurt by sunlight are still generally in the habit of avoiding it, anyway. I don't see that making a big difference. Cosmic rays on the Moon are actually less dangerous than on the Earth, since you don't get a cascading shower of particles, just the original one.

And lightning probably wouldn't work at all, since it depends on a conductive path of plasma through the air. At most, I'd allow it as a 5' range.

[Rossebay]

agreed, heat is not really a problem. cold more so, when the sun goes down everything freezes; but as mentioned, most undead have cold resistance.

good point about the radiation. it is a problem, but more along the lines of 1 point of damage per day, or even per week. not entirely sure how skeletons and Liches are affected by radiation, since bones are made out om mineral and effectively immune to radiation. one might argue that boney undead are immune, but fleshy undead take 1 point of damage; and only when they where mostly in direct exposure to the sun for that week (ie, more then 50% of the time)
you could also ague that undead are immune to radiation. since radiation is only damaging to living tissue and not to objects (for all practical purposes) for the sake of argument one might say that they are immune to disease and there for to 'radiation sickness' but its rind of a stretch

Pure, unfettered waves will eventually wear away at any chemical bond, evidenced by the creation of ozone in our atmosphere.


Nonetheless, undead are magically upkept and magically powered, so I doubt any radiation will do anything.


Vampires, on the other hand, receive no defense from the sun's rays. Additional damage/Instant death may be in order. :P

[FMArthur]

Atropus is an Elder Evil known as the world born dead, or the afterbirth of creation. It is a moon that seeks out life-bearing worlds and enters orbit of the planet, reanimating more and more of the dead and weakening the living as its orbit gradually decays. If it makes contact, all life is wiped out.

Anyway, the plothook of this Elder Evil can eventually take the PCs to the surface of this undead moon. In between talking about how brutally lopsided the effects of negative and positive energy are and about how the PCs will be endlessly swarmed by undead, Elder Evils has this to say about survival on the surface:

Unless the moonlet is approached when it has already entered the atmosphere—at which point it is almost too late—characters must contend with the hazardous environment. After 3 rounds of exposure to the void, a living creature must make a successful DC 20 Constitution check or suffer excruciating pain, becoming stunned and remaining so until it returns to the atmosphere. Creatures that fail the check by 5 or more fall unconscious.

Creatures that require air are also subject to suffocation. Attempting to hold one’s breath requires a DC 15 Constitution check every round. The DC increases by 1 each round. Even on a successful check, the creature takes 1 point of Constitution damage from the pressure. On a failed check, or when the creature stops holding its breath, it falls unconscious on the following round, and its hit points fall to 0. On the next round, the creature drops to –1 hit points and the round after, its hit points fall to –10 and the creature dies.

None of that applies to an undead creature, and the whole chapter operates on the assumption that undead don't care about being in the vacuum of space one whit.

Guess how you stop it? You wander around the surface until Atropos chooses to present its conveniently fightable bite-sized avatar for you to punch out, at which point the whole thing decides to leave with its tail between its legs...

[Nerd-o-rama]

Atropus is an Elder Evil known as the world born dead, or the afterbirth of creation. It is a moon that seeks out life-bearing worlds and enters orbit of the planet, reanimating more and more of the dead and weakening the living as its orbit gradually decays. If it makes contact, all life is wiped out.

Anyway, the plothook of this Elder Evil can eventually take the PCs to the surface of this undead moon. In between talking about how brutally lopsided the effects of negative and positive energy are and about how the PCs will be endlessly swarmed by undead, Elder Evils has this to say about survival on the surface:


None of that applies to an undead creature, and the whole chapter operates on the assumption that undead don't care about being in the vacuum of space one whit.

Guess how you stop it? You wander around the surface until Atropos chooses to present its conveniently fightable bite-sized avatar for you to punch out, at which point the whole thing decides to leave with its tail between its legs...

You may mock the conclusion all you like, but this post demands a BGM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSq_nfTs4Ko).

[Silva Stormrage]

Atropus is an Elder Evil known as the world born dead, or the afterbirth of creation. It is a moon that seeks out life-bearing worlds and enters orbit of the planet, reanimating more and more of the dead and weakening the living as its orbit gradually decays. If it makes contact, all life is wiped out.

Anyway, the plothook of this Elder Evil can eventually take the PCs to the surface of this undead moon. In between talking about how brutally lopsided the effects of negative and positive energy are and about how the PCs will be endlessly swarmed by undead, Elder Evils has this to say about survival on the surface:


None of that applies to an undead creature, and the whole chapter operates on the assumption that undead don't care about being in the vacuum of space one whit.

Guess how you stop it? You wander around the surface until Atropos chooses to present its conveniently fightable bite-sized avatar for you to punch out, at which point the whole thing decides to leave with its tail between its legs...

Thats unbelievable awesome. If I was in an evil party (Epic level so its not TOO unrealistic :smalltongue:) I would totally try and recreate this.

[FMArthur]

I can't imagine how grumpy a literal negative reflection of all life must be as a landlord.

EDIT: Oh god. I was just scanning through Elder Evils to see if it mentioned how one goes about attracting Atropus to your world...

Meanwhile, Caira recovers the book of vile darkness and learns that the elder evil will come if a tragedy of terrible and widespread death were to occur. She researches the apocalypse from the sky spell, during which time she sends out her minions to collect a sample of angel tears she intends to use to complete the casting of the spell.

That's right. Simply casting Apocalypse from the Sky and killing a whole bunch of people with it is enough to lure Atropus to your world. I can't wait to spring this on a player of an evil caster attempting some comparatively small-time villainy.


"You successfully complete the casting of the spell. Tens of thousands suddenly perish. Now make a Spot check.
...
"Okay, out of the corner of your eye, you notice something unfamiliar in the sky. Looking up, you see a rapidly approaching second moon up in the sky with a huge trollface across its surface. Tens of thousands suddenly un-perish."

[Silva Stormrage]

I can't imagine how grumpy a literal negative reflection of all life must be as a landlord.

EDIT: Oh god. I was just scanning through Elder Evils to see if it mentioned how one goes about attracting Atropus to your world...


That's right. Simply casting Apocalypse from the Sky and killing a whole bunch of people with it is enough to lure Atropus to your world. I can't wait to spring this on a player of an evil caster attempting some comparatively small-time villainy.


"You successfully complete the casting of the spell. Tens of thousands suddenly perish. Now make a Spot check.
...
"Okay, out of the corner of your eye, you notice something unfamiliar in the sky. Looking up, you see a rapidly approaching second moon up in the sky with a huge trollface across its surface. Tens of thousands suddenly un-perish."

Wait don't all prepared casters know that spell by default :smalleek: Thats... bad...

[FMArthur]

I guess it wasn't really living up to its name before. It was neither an apocalypse nor was it coming from the sky. Now it is both.