Is it possible to use martial spirit stance like this?

[gooddragon1]

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[Novawurmson]

"Each time you hit an opponent"

If you make a melee touch attack to use Cure Light Wounds on an enemy zombie to hurt it, sure. I think the wording on Crusader's Strike is better (specifies that it has to be a real opponent you're engaged in combat with at the time).

[Douglas]

Technically by RAW, yes this works. This is pretty clearly an oversight, though, and should probably have the same restrictions as all the healing strikes have.

[gooddragon1]

Technically by RAW, yes this works. This is pretty clearly an oversight, though, and should probably have the same restrictions as all the healing strikes have.

I'd feel bad but there's already precedent with charnal touch of dread necromancer and tomb tainted soul. Admittedly it requires collaboration and evil alignment but it's completely possible. Also I'd never play an evil character. Closest I've ever come to evil is neutral good.

[Chronos]

For Charnel Touch and Tomb-Tainted Soul, you need for everyone in the party to take a particular feat that many folks will have reason not to want to take, and which has little other benefit than enabling the healing trick. For the stance, you just need one player to pick one of his class features in a way that he'd have been likely to anyway. If it's allowed, using Martial Spirit for out-of-combat healing costs far less than any other means of infinite out-of-combat healing in the game. Any time you find yourself being able to do something far easier than any other method of doing that thing, you should ask yourself "is this broken?".

[gooddragon1]

For Charnel Touch and Tomb-Tainted Soul, you need for everyone in the party to take a particular feat that many folks will have reason not to want to take, and which has little other benefit than enabling the healing trick. For the stance, you just need one player to pick one of his class features in a way that he'd have been likely to anyway. If it's allowed, using Martial Spirit for out-of-combat healing costs far less than any other means of infinite out-of-combat healing in the game. Any time you find yourself being able to do something far easier than any other method of doing that thing, you should ask yourself "is this broken?".

I say no *meep*! Because you can make a custom item of Cure Minor Wounds for 1000 gp without needing to invest a class level. I was originally going to be a crit fisher warblade but decided to take a 1 level dip to provide free healing for all :D

Now stop making me feel bad about doing this! Plz? :(

[Snowbluff]

This is not allowed. What you hit has to be presenting a danger to your party and an opponent.

[Big Fau]

This is not allowed. What you hit has to be presenting a danger to your party and an opponent.

That applies to the other healing maneuvers; Martial Spirit lacks that restriction.


Besides, not like infinite healing breaks the game. It actually makes some aspects better!

[Macrovore]

I had a player who had a bag of tricks, and he would pull rats and badgers out of it for his crusader buddy to hit with Martial Spirit and Crusader's Strike for some out-of-combat healing. The only other healing they had was a bard with very few spells-per-day, and a DFA with a wand.

[HunterOfJello]

the RAW on these is all screwed up by a lack of errata in general


I think the general consensus is that any of the Crusader healing shenanigans can be used in legitimate combat, but not outside it. The battle gods frown on pansies who try to play children's games or slaughter tiny animals just to heal hp. Want to heal yourself with Crusader maneuvers? Man up and go kill some goblins or start a bar fight. Hell, go Elder Scrolls on a town and bust out a full scale assault on only the town's guards. You might even make some extra money from a thieves guild if you ever survive.

[gooddragon1]

the RAW on these is all screwed up by a lack of errata in general


I think the general consensus is that any of the Crusader healing shenanigans can be used in legitimate combat, but not outside it. The battle gods frown on pansies who try to play children's games or slaughter tiny animals just to heal hp. Want to heal yourself with Crusader maneuvers? Man up and go kill some goblins or start a bar fight. Hell, go Elder Scrolls on a town and bust out a full scale assault on only the town's guards. You might even make some extra money from a thieves guild if you ever survive.

delete...delete

[Nerd-o-rama]

While I frankly have no qualms about infinite out of combat healing in the right kind of game (discourages the 15-minute adventuring day, which allows you to chew through characters' other resources more effectively), using Martial Spirit like this is completely and totally against the flavor and, judging from every Strike with a similar effect, the intended rules. I'd interpret opponent (it does say "opponent" rather than "target") to mean the subject of the attack roll has to be hostile to the Initiator.

[gooddragon1]

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[Novawurmson]

Then there's also the possibility that Pun-Pun, LN God of Law and Dairy Products, will smite your character, depending on DM interpretation.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Exitus Acta Probat: The Outcome Justifies the Deed. (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Vindicare#.TzVMDIHNmEU)

A deity of good who supports doing the right thing at any cost other than engaging in evil would allow it by flavor. That's what all my characters aim to do. That's why I won't resort to dread necromancer for healing or Disciple of Dispater for improved crit fishing.

Honestly, it's up to your DM to decide. It's not broken, but I do think it's an oversight in the rules. By flavor, I just meant the assumption that Crusaders try to glorify their deity through battle as well as serving their goals directly. Playing tag with your allies doesn't really so much do that.

Also if you're quoting the Imperium from 40k to justify something, you might want to take a step back, or at least find someone more sane with the same opinion...

[gooddragon1]

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[Chronos]

I say no *meep*! Because you can make a custom item of Cure Minor Wounds for 1000 gp without needing to invest a class level.Where did you find that? Because going by the rules laid out for custom magic item creation, it should be a couple orders of magnitude more expensive than that.

[Person_Man]

I won't comment on the RAW.

The real question is, what does your DM think? It's clearly not the intention of the stance. But on the flip side, infinite low-dose healing it's not that big of a deal. It basically just lets you conserve resources out of combat. As a DM, I've personally handed out a Wand of Infinite Cure Minor Wounds more then once, and it made balancing encounters a lot easier for me, because I always knew that players would be at full life at the start of every combat unless they were running away from something. (FYI, this is why most roleplaying games and first person shooters have auto-recovering health instead of the old school model of healing/mana potions)

[Rubik]

A new non-magic magic item: Sparring Dummy of Healing.

[FMArthur]

It seems pretty simple to me.

If you want your game to have infinite out-of-combat healing (which I personally like), you should just do something with the rules for your players to arrange something else that isn't quite this dumb in concept and hopefully not so class-exclusive. Then the trick goes redundant and you don't have to massage your aching forehead every time they go through their healing routine.

If you don't, you shouldn't allow the trick to work because, well, it's quite dumb in concept.

[tyckspoon]

Where did you find that? Because going by the rules laid out for custom magic item creation, it should be a couple orders of magnitude more expensive than that.

Spell level (.5 for a cantrip) x caster level (1 will do here, since cure minor doesn't scale by caster level at all) x 1800 (for a Command Word item) or 2,000 (continuous, which makes no sense for a Cure spell, or Use-activated.) So a custom Cure Minor Wounds widget costs either 900 gp if you don't mind chanting the command word over and over, or 1,000 if you make it a device you just wear and it heals you while you walk around or perform some other mundane activity.

'course, that's just the guideline formulas; if you're referring to the full rules, I suppose you're talking about the 'compare to prices of existing items that do similar things' guide, in which case you're comparing to items that grant Regeneration or Fast Healing. Which are indeed far more expensive and also often wildly overpriced for what they do.

[gooddragon1]

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