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jmelesky
2012-02-10, 12:09 AM
Motivation: Well, the PF Fighter got some improvements, including some actual class features. But, the core concept remains: Feats == class features. Unfortunately, other martial classes get also get extra feats, and don't have to meet prerequisites for them (for example, Weapon and Shield Rangers can get Shield Master at 6th level, without prereq concerns?). This class upgrade is intended to give some feat prerequisite flexibility, reduce feat-induced MAD, as well as some increased power and flexibility generally. It's also intended to fit within the concept of a trained, flexible combat generalist, and to require only incremental changes to existing characters.

Skills, Proficiencies, Skill ranks remain unchanged.

Hit Die: d10

{table=head]
Level|
Base attack bonus|
Fort save|
Reflex save|
Will save|
Special
1st|+1|+2|+1|+1|Bonus Feat, Feat Training (physical), Fresh From Basic
2nd|+2|+3|+2|+2|Bonus Feat, Bravery
3rd|+3|+3|+2|+2|Bonus Feat, Armor Training, Feat Training (mental)
4th|+4|+4|+2|+2|Bonus Feat, Maneuver Training
5th|+5|+4|+3|+3|Weapon Training, Feat Pool (4), Respecialize (1/day)
6th|+6/+1|+5|+3|+3|Bonus Feat
7th|+7/+2|+5|+4|+4|Armor Training, Maneuver Training
8th|+8/+3|+6|+4|+4|Bonus Feat, Respecialize (2/day)
9th|+9/+4|+6|+4|+4|Weapon Training
10th|+10/+5|+7|+5|+5|Bonus Feat, Feat Pool (8), Maneuver Training
11th|+11/+6/+1|+7|+5|+5|Amor Training, Respecialize (3/day)
12th|+12/+7/+2|+8|+6|+6|Bonus Feat
13th|+13/+8/+3|+8|+6|+6|Weapon Training, Maneuver Training
14th|+14/+9/+4|+9|+6|+6|Bonus Feat, Respecialize (4/day)
15th|+15/+10/+5|+9|+7|+7|Armor Training, Feat Pool (12)
16th|+16/+11/+6/+1|+10|+7|+7|Bonus Feat, Maneuver Training
17th|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+8|+8|Weapon Training, Respecialize (5/day)
18th|+18/+13/+8/+3|+11|+8|+8|Bonus Feat
19th|+19/+14/+9/+4|+11|+8|+8|Armor Mastery, Maneuver Mastery
20th|+20/+15/+10/+5|+12|+9|+9|Bonus Feat, Weapon Mastery, Feat Pool (16), Master Specialist
[/table]

A note on saves: Will and Reflex saves are following a progression borrowed from d20 Modern, and are a middle ground between high and low saves.

Bonus Feats: Per the Core Fighter class ability, with the following exceptions: the fighter gains an additional bonus feat at 3rd level, and can retrain a single bonus feat every time she gains a new one (as opposed to every 4 levels for the Core Fighter).

Feat Training (physical): At 1st and 2nd level, and every even level thereafter, a fighter chooses one of the following: base attack bonus, Strength, Dexterity, or Constitution. She gains a +1 bonus to that ability or feature, for the purposes of feat prerequisites only.

Fresh From Basic: At 1st level, a fighter chooses one of the following feats, representing the training received thus far in her career: Alertness, Athletic, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Endurance, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (choose weapon), Fleet, Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Nimble Moves, Self-Sufficient, Stealthy, Toughness, Weapon Finesse. She must meet the prerequisites for this feat (including any bonus from Feat Training), and this is not considered a Bonus feat for purposes of retraining.

Bravery: Per the Core Fighter class ability

Armor Training: Per the Core Fighter class ability

Feat Training (mental): At 3rd level, and every odd level thereafter, a fighter chooses one of the following: Intelligence, Wisdom, Charisma, or a Skill. If an ability score is chosen, she gains a +1 bonus to that ability score, for the purposes of feat prerequisites only. If a Skill is chosen, she gains a +2 bonus to ranks in that Skill, for the purposes of feat prerequisites and feat triggering effects (e.g. the higher bonus available from Skill Focus).

Maneuver Training: At 4th level, a fighter can select a single combat maneuver. She gains a +1 bonus to CMB when performing that combat maneuver, and a +1 bonus to CMD to defend against it. She also does not provoke an attack of opportunity when attempting that combat maneuver.

Every 3 levels thereafter, until 16th level, the fighter chooses another combat maneuver. She gains the +1 bonus and non-provoke ability for that maneuver. In addition, the bonus for her previous maneuvers increases by one.

Finally, when bonuses for maneuvers reach certain levels, additional effects occur, as follows:

{table=head]
Bonus|
Effect
+2|The fighter is considered to have the Improved feat for that maneuver, for the purposes of qualifying for other feats
+3|If there are creature size limitations to the maneuver, the fighter may attempt the maneuver against a creature of one size class larger than normal
+4|The fighter is considered to have the Greater feat for that maneuver, for the purposes of qualifying for other feats
+5|If there are creature size limitations to the maneuver, the fighter may attempt the maneuver against a creature of two size classes larger than normal
[/table]

Weapon Training: Starting at 5th level, a fighter can select one group of weapons, as noted in the Core Fighter description. Whenever he attacks with a weapon from this group, he gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls. Additionally, his BAB and fighter level gain a +1 bonus when qualifying for weapon-specific feats (e.g. an 7th level fighter with a +1 training bonus in Axes meets the 8th-level Fighter requirement for Greater Weapon Focus (Greataxe)).

Aside from that, Weapon Training is the same as the Core Fighter class ability. The bonus to BAB and fighter level stack in the same manner as the attack and damage bonuses.

Feat Pool: At 5th level, a fighter chooses four feats. These feats need not be combat feats, but she must meet the prerequisites (including any bonuses from Feat Training). These feats enter the fighter's Feat Pool.

Every 5 levels past 5th, the fighter's Feat Pool increases by four feats, to a maximum of 16 feats at 20th level. Every time the fighter gains a level, she may choose to replace a feat from her feat pool with a different feat for which she meets the prerequisites.

Respecialize: At 5th level, a fighter gains the ability to temporarily learn a feat from her Feat Pool. As a swift action, she may choose a new feat from her Feat Pool to be her "active" feat: that feat is now known and available for use. She may use this ability once per day, and once more per day for every third level past 5th, to a maximum of 5/day at 17th level.

Every time the fighter's Feat Pool increases in size, she may have an additional "active" feat, to a maximum of 4 "active" feats at 20th level.

Armor Mastery: At 19th level, a fighter gains Damage Reduction 5/— whenever he is wearing armor or using a shield. This DR stacks with DR from other sources, including that from adamantium armor.

Maneuver Mastery: At 19th level, a fighter gains a +4 bonus to CMB and CMD for all maneuvers, and may attempt maneuvers on a target of any size class. In addition, she chooses a single maneuver. That maneuver may be executed as an immediate action, and she does not provoke attacks of opportunity for that maneuver.

Weapon Mastery: Per the Core Fighter class ability

Master Specialist: At 20th level, a fighter is adept at retraining for any situation. She may use her swift-action Respecialize power any number of times per day. In addition, she may spend an hour practicing and training in order replace any feat in her feat pool with another feat for which she meets the prerequisites. She may use this retraining ability whenever she has available time.

Roxxy
2012-02-10, 12:12 AM
Can you explain what the feat pool does? As I read it, it looks way overpowered, but I could be reading it wrong. It seems to me that it gains all of these feats. In combination with the bonus feats, that would be too much.

moghue
2012-02-10, 12:18 AM
having played a mid-level fighter in pathfinder myself, I did feel very underpowered and specialized for what I was doing, i was the tank, I used combat patrol and all the prerequisites, as well as the ray shield. We only got to lvl 9. We all loved the system, but it was a wizard, a sorcerer, and a druid cohort, and me with a fighter as a cohort. I locked down melee and ranged had to try very hard to hit me but I didn't have as much fun as my fireball flinging brethren.

I feel this a a good upgrade, its short of adding maneuvers and stances, which a lot of people do in fighter fixes, but it still gives more "oomph." This fits as a learned fighter, one who's undergone training, which I like because I believe the unlearned training belongs to the barbarians. This still puts them under tier of casters, and even under tier of ToB classes.

moghue
2012-02-10, 12:20 AM
Can you explain what the feat pool does? As I read it, it looks way overpowered, but I could be reading it wrong. It seems to me that it gains all of these feats. In combination with the bonus feats, that would be too much.

Its feats he can switch out over time. or else it would be overpowered as all hell.

jmelesky
2012-02-10, 12:22 AM
Can you explain what the feat pool does? As I read it, it looks way overpowered, but I could be reading it wrong. It seems to me that it gains all of these feats. In combination with the bonus feats, that would be too much.

Sorry, the wording's a bit unclear (and i'm open to suggestions to help clarify, fwiw). The Feat Pool doesn't give you any feats by itself, just holds them in a pool of feats available for the Respecialize ability.

So the pool contains four feats, but you only know one of them at a time. And which one you know can be switched out by using Respecialize.

At higher levels, you have more feats in your pool, and get to know more of them at once (8 and 2, 12 and 3, 16 and 4). So, at 20th level, it's like you have four additional bonus feats, but they can be swapped out at will from a pool of 16.

Roxxy
2012-02-10, 12:25 AM
With that the case, it's a good fix.

jmelesky
2012-02-10, 12:28 AM
I feel this a a good upgrade, its short of adding maneuvers and stances, which a lot of people do in fighter fixes, but it still gives more "oomph." This fits as a learned fighter, one who's undergone training, which I like because I believe the unlearned training belongs to the barbarians.

Thanks. I considered adding some maneuver bonuses, but i figured with the extra feats and the feat pool, it was far easier to get the Improved/Greater feats. I'm still up in the air on it, though.


This still puts them under tier of casters, and even under tier of ToB classes.

Yeah, ToB is, i think, out of reach of a feat-centric class, unless feat trees have far better capstones (though some of the PF feat tree feats are pretty impressive -- Deadly Stroke (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/deadly-stroke-combat) comes to mind). If nothing else, it gives homebrewing GMs the incentive to make more impressive tree-topping feats.

I feel like Respecialization and the ability to progress in skill feats a bit more easily might bring it up to a very low Tier 3, but i'll settle for a solid, flexible, and powerful Tier 4.

jmelesky
2012-02-16, 09:02 PM
Alright, after some internal debate and test builds, i've added Maneuver Training and Maneuver Mastery class features, as well as performed some other cleanup.

Obviously, these features make some of the available fighter archetypes less useful, but adding features should make homebrew archetypes easier to make (and to combine with other archetypes).