[3.5] Helping the fighter

[hymer]

Not everyone is suited to reading and remembering a lot of spells, or keeping track of their effects and when it's best to use them, etc. Some people just need to play a dwarf fighter with power attack and plenty of staying power.
I'd like to help that guy out in my campaign.

It's moderately hard to get him to shine in RP situations, as he does very little outside of combat (and when he does, it's mostly being a bit obstructive). His skills, obviously, don't help him out much outside combat either (though he's pretty proud he can now climb and jump with full effect in full plate; but the sorcerer keeps casting mass fly, so it is technically rather redundant).

I'm thinking of letting some opportunities to use Lion's Charge (allows full attacks on charges) fall in the PCs' hands (an eternal wand, for example). I just hope I can get the others to use them on him. He's not much good at remembering to use potions.
Anyone have any nice ideas along those lines?

I'm also hoping to find some monsters that will allow the guys with the sharp objects and the heavy clothes to have a nice encounter. Anyone have any good ideas for monsters (pretty much any CR is of interest, though they're in their early teens around now) that makes it more logical for the spellcasters to buff up the melee guys rather than blasting/save-or-dieing? Since conjuration became so good at blasting (I used to use golems for this), I'm sort of stumped for ideas. Maybe some golems in an antimagic field...?

All sorts of ideas and suggestions will be much appreciated.

[hex0]

Are you the DM? What's the rest of the party like?

I'd suggest going into Warmind for the less experience fighter that doesn't want to memorize a lot. (If you are the DM, ease off the prereqs). Only a few powers known, so it has a shallow learning curve, but it still feels like a fighter. And, hey, Psionic Lion's Charge.

[hymer]

Thanks for replying.
I am indeed the DM. The group varies, as it's a sand box sort of thing, where people drop by when they have the time and feel like it. But some of the more constant PCs are a sorcerer/frost mage and a gestalt barbarian/scout. Others that are often around are a fighter/wizard/bladesinger, a gestalt favoured soul/duskblade and a cloistered cleric. There are som NPCs they bring along on occasion, especially for traps and such.
As you can probably tell, maximizing is not a big deal with the group, and the fighter's been able to keep up pretty well, despite being an axe-and-shield fighter. He has the best AC bar the bladesinger, and the most hp at all. This is a source of considerable pride to him. Where he really takes a hit is in offense, of course, where even the bladesinger does better than him.
Since this is an open sandbox (heavily inspired by West Marches, if you've ever heard of it), I don't fudge rolls, and I can't really bend requirements to anything. I have to be more subtle than that (like placing monsters and treasure, or introducing backup NPCs). Retraining is allowed, though, but he has some rather dismal mental scores (int 10, cha 7 and wis 8, if I remember correctly).
The campaign tone is pretty old-school, so I'm afraid there are no psionics. But maybe I could rewrite something if it came to that (flavour is just flavour, after all), I did for the guy who wanted to play a monk.

[Julietta2525]

I would also suggest, if you can get to know the guy, maybe creating a situation where he can be creative. Instead of falling back to skill checks and spells, the situation calls for some serious planning. I have played a fighter with little skills and out of combat stuff but I knew what the others could do and tried to make suggestions and plans revolving around the whole party. Of course the rest of the party really needs to cooperate with stuff like that but maybe if there is an encounter where magic isn't working for some reason? Just throwing it out there :smallbiggrin: Lol, just be grateful he isn't a paladin or things would get real complicated :smalltongue:

[hymer]

Thanks, good idea!
They recently had to get into a cave in a deep lake, and he definitely showed himself to be more practical in his approach than others, especially when it got to how rope behaves, and what good it does under water.
I'll need to have more things like that.

[Julietta2525]

Nice. I am glad that he is willing to participate and jump into planning. I was playing in a campaign once were, if we weren't killing something, it wasn't important. They would try to blah through the story-line and kill everyone and everything we met. It was really annoying. I like storytelling and role-play.

Oh and sometimes the campaign will seem to focus on one person more than another, due to how the problems are dealt with. It can make them feel special but alienate the others. My favorite DM likes to make sure everyone gets a little piece of action that focuses on the individual.

Do your characters have character backgrounds? Those help get people more involved too...

[hex0]

Wait...there are some gestalt and some non-gestalt?

Can he just do gestalt Swashbuckler/Fighter or Psychic Warrior/Fighter or Barbarian/Fighter?

[hymer]

@ Julietta2525: Some characters have extensive backgrounds, carefully made to fit the campaign world. Others, like the fighter here, have a city of residence and that's about it. The fighter later asked to add something to the campaign that would be more his, so I invented an uncle who was a smith, and used to work in an outpost in the area. He would like to get his tools back.
This has definitely interested the fighter in the sessions where they happened across clues and eventually the outpost. He just hasn't really been following any clues, pretty much relying on the others to start missions into the territories where he may find something relevant.

@ hex0:
I guess you could make a Fi14 gestalt somehow. I let people be gestalt, but it makes them count as two levels higher for encounter XP (and a few other restrictions to keep the lunacy and sheer bewilderment down). I guess he could earn gestalt by paying XP equal to two levels, and when he would've been level 16, be fi14/something else14, and start earning XP as level 16 from then on. Could definitely get him some utility, or at least a lion's totem so he can charge and full attack. I guess he'd earn 2 skill points per new gestalt level, to be used on barbarian skills. He'd even gain a hp per level from d12 vs. d10.
I think I'll run this by him if he survives today's session. They intend to lure a necromancer away from his tower, so allied forces can capture it. Could get ugly, but has a lot of potential for glory.

[sonofzeal]

Personally, I like boosting Fighter's skills so they have something to do outside of combat. I'd love to see Fighters rocking the Knowledge:engineering, Disable Device, and Craft scenes. Rogues are still the trap masters, Artificers are still the champs at crafting magic, but if you want a 50-foot siege engine built, it's probably Fighters who're putting the darn thing together. Giving the Fighter the ability to creatively build or break mundane objects outside of combat expands their options somewhat. It's not anything the Rogue couldn't have done, but the Rogue has other jobs and other priorities. It's a weak tool, but it's the type of tool the Fighter desperately needs, and it fits right in with the whole "aggressively non-magical" vibe some people find appealing.

[Zhirax]

I don't know your characters playstyle but it sounds pretty standard. So to help the fighter Shine you could do the following:

1. Gift him with items(as rewards after encounters or storyline rewards), that the others can't use as well
eksample: A Legendary Dwarven Hammer that bestows visions of greatness sendt from the dwarven patron. (this could nodge him to change playstyle be more active) the hammer would be awesome for all to use but for him it would be special and might even evolve?

2. Plan some encounters with antimagic og magichungry monsters.
eks the pc's need to take down some rouge wizards, the wizards are barricaded on top of a wizards tower, which is surrounded by an antimagic field, the wizards has hired guards that pelt the pc's with arrows, rocks or what ever. Here the dwarf could scale the walls with his awesome climbing skills;) and kill the wizards thus lowering the antimagic field

3.If he is comfortable with being pressured into roleplaying, then you could force this on him.
eks: his hometown, has accused his family of high treason and will execute them all (including the pc) if their name is not cleared in 1 month. the pc is given notice and told that they are watching him. this will start a quest centered on the dwarf and make him feel important while including the other(who hopefully will try to help him)

hope this helps:smallsmile:

[hex0]

Wait he is a level 14 fighter? At least he is almost to Weapon Supremacy. :smallbiggrin:

Since his mental scores are so low, there isn't much point to gestalting to any spellcasting class. Maybe with Dragon Shaman? It is simple and passive. I'd consider giving him essentially gestalt with his 'dead' fighter levels.

Edit: In other words he'd essentially be a Fighter 14//Dragon Shaman 6. I'd probably not give him an adjustment for that.

[dsmiles]

@ hex0:
I guess you could make a Fi14 gestalt somehow. I let people be gestalt, but it makes them count as two levels higher for encounter XP (and a few other restrictions to keep the lunacy and sheer bewilderment down). I guess he could earn gestalt by paying XP equal to two levels, and when he would've been level 16, be fi14/something else14, and start earning XP as level 16 from then on. Could definitely get him some utility, or at least a lion's totem so he can charge and full attack. I guess he'd earn 2 skill points per new gestalt level, to be used on barbarian skills. He'd even gain a hp per level from d12 vs. d10.
I think I'll run this by him if he survives today's session. They intend to lure a necromancer away from his tower, so allied forces can capture it. Could get ugly, but has a lot of potential for glory.I'd recommend Warblade or Crusader for his gestalt. ToB makes warrior-types feasible. Plus there's a decent PrC for a Dwarven Warblade in there.

[hymer]

@ sonofzeal: If his new gestalt is going to net him some skill points, maybe I can discretely direct him in a way that helps him in this fashion. It's not unusual for them to find themselves sans rogue, so a more hardnosed approach to locks, doors and such is often called for. Thanks for the suggestion!

@ Zhirax: Thanks! I'll be looking into that. He's already on the lookout for some dwarven equipment (a set of which he has the shield so far), but as mentioned earlier, he's sort of more hoping it'll eventually turn up, rather than going after it himself.

@ hex0: Good point about Weapon Supremacy, thanks. I'll try to have him look in that direction. He's pretty prone to just using his usual axe, even when there's good DR reason to switch to something else, so it should be a good feat for him. Enemies tend to grapple other people than him, but that floating +5 bonus to-hit looks juicy.

@ dsmiles: Thanks, and I'd recommend something like that to him, but he's the sort who gets a little confused when someone casts greater magic weapon on his axe, or who tends to forget the +2 to-hit and -2 AC on charging despite doing it on average once per battle. Teaching him to deal with ToB mechanics is more than I hope for. I'm hoping to help his character without making it any more difficult to choose and remember stuff for the player.