Making a Jedi

[danzibr]

I've seen various other posts about making a Jedi from 3.5 material. The most common response I remember is PsyWar (and Bard and Warblade). However, I think this is totally off. In particular... now, no offense to Jedi, but they seem much more capable than Jedi (I'm thinking of the 6 movies, no EU business). When you think about what a Jedi should be able to do:

jump really high
move objects with the Force
fight well
have good reflexes
sway the minds of the weak
become a ghost after they die (if they know how)
telepathy
sense certain things

A Jedi shouldn't be able to:

produce a lightsabre with their powers
make lightning (we're talking Jedi not in EU here)

I'm sure I'm missing stuff. Anyways, Jedi also shouldn't wear any sort of armor. It seems that... there's really nothing in 3.5 that models a Jedi very well. Pure melee couldn't do it to my knowledge, but when you get into casters they can just do way more than a Jedi should be able to.

tl;dr?
How would you make a Jedi without giving them more abilities than in the 6 movies?

[Pilo]

{Scrubbed}

[Kansaschaser]

Swordsage covers the following.

1. Jump really high - With Tiger Claw maneuvers.
2. Fight well
3. Have good reflexes
4. Sense certain things - With Tiger Claw and Diamond Mind maneuvers. Tiger Claw stance that gives Scent and a Diamond Mind stance that gives blindsense.

After a few levels of Swordsage you could then go into Wizard or possibly Beguilar for spells.

As a Wizard with Enchantment and Transmutation spells, you could accomplish the rest of the things on your list.

5. Move objects with the force - Mage Hand, Telekinesis
6. Sway the minds of others - Charm spells
7. Telepathy - Detect Thoughts to read minds and Telepathic Bond to communicate.
8. Become a ghost after death - Um, you got me there. Not sure how to accomplish that.

After Swordsage and Wizard/Beguilar, then you can go into the Jade Phoenix Mage. That way you'd still be getting spells, maneuvers, and a good base attack bonus. That's about as close to a Jedi as I can come up with.

[MukkTB]

2 levels of Paladin and then go into Sorcerer.

You start out as a knight hitting things with a weapon. As you learn more you become attuned to the force and get charisma to your saving throws. Then you start learning to manipulate the force. So a low level Sorcadin ends up playing like a fighter with a bit of guidance and a higher level Sorcadin ends up playing like a spellcaster. Luke fighting the Deathstar in episode one isn't using much magic beyond getting simple guidance. The Emperor however is shooting lightning from his hands and not even fighting with a lightsaber. It is probably reasonable to assume that different Jedis make the transition from Paladin to Sorcerer at different times.

For Luke that would be on Dagoba when Yoda is trying to get him to learn how to lift his ship from the mud.

I'm going to go look around for ways to get Cha to AC and To Hit.

[Feralventas]

At the risk of shameless self-promotion, check this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232185) out. I posted because I wasn't sure that it was all in order, but on the theory side of things, it would give a fair amount of telekinesis for the active aspects of The Force, and if you replace the dip in Warblade with something like Psion, Sorcerer or Beguiler you'd have the mental influence side of things as well (progressed a little by Human Paragon at first and potentially after Master of the Unseen Hand in either simple continuation or a PrC like Mind Bender (complete arcane) or Abjurant Champion.

Just switch out the multi-weapon fighting aspect in favor of single-weapon oriented feats and pick up a Monk's Belt to add your Wisdom to AC in addition to the Charisma bonus from Battle Dancer. Needs high Dex, Wisdom and Charisma to pull off, but should get what you're looking for, and if you don't use the Mage Hand parts to fight there shouldn't be any major combat constraints.

Eidalon feats normally only work for ghosts though, so check with your DM to confirm or deny if they'll allow a refluff of the ghost feats as semi-psionics or The Force.

[Kansaschaser]

I guess you could also take the alternative build for Swordsages. You could do the spellcasting Swordsage and mix Tiger Claw maneuvers, Diamond Mind maneuvers, and Transmutation spells to accomplish your build. This way you could do a full Swordsage. Of course, you'd probably also want a Brilliant Energy weapon for your "lightsaber". Maybe even a flaming brilliant energy weapon.

[gallagher]

tash monk 2/psychic warrior X

or, if your DM is really fun, tash unarmed swordsage 2/psychic warrior X

[Yora]

Yeah, psychic warrior. I think Jedi was actually the model for the class. Though to meet all prerequisites, a few levels in telepath would also be needed for the telepathy and mind control. But psionic characters multiclass rather well, especially when you don't want to be a full caster.

[gallagher]

Yeah, psychic warrior. I think Jedi was actually the model for the class. Though to meet all prerequisites, a few levels in telepath would also be needed for the telepathy and mind control. But psionic characters multiclass rather well, especially when you don't want to be a full caster.

you wont have the CHA for it. that one may have to be left up to your party bard, or take a bard dip and get a wand of glibness. or a few potions and use them sparingly.

[Randomguy]

Sounds like paladin/sorcerer/eldritch knight with one level of mindbender and the mindsight feat might do the trick. Or possibly monk and enlightened fist instead of paladin and eldritch knight, for more skill points to put in jump and stuff.

Include spells like charm person, charm monster, suggestion, expedious retreat, jump, detect X, wraithstrike, bull's strength, bear's endurance, mage hand, telekinesis, and other spells that make you better at jedi stuff.

[Metahuman1]

A few levels in Psion and Warblade, maybe a bit of Factotum to get Int either to Dex or Str Checks to cut mad and a couple of extra skill points, and a Brilliant Energy weapon. Focus Warblade Maneuversw, in order, on Diamond Mind, Tiger Claw, and Iron Heart. But do make sure you grab Mountain hammer from Stone Dragon just cause you'll need it for cutting through objects. Focus Manifesting powers on Telekinetic stuff to move objects and Telepathic/extra sensory stuff.

For added grins and giggles, max ranks in Preform Weapons Drill form Complete Warrior, and take either Melodic Casting feat from Complete Mage or grab a Ring of undersong to go with those Diamond mind counters. Every time you use a "Make a concentration check in place of a saving throw." counter, you instead make a preform weapons drill check, and use your "Lightsaber." to deflect the spell that called for a saving throw. Add Wall of blades counter form Iron heart, and parry incoming sword swings.

[Doughnut Master]

Lightsaber? (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Flame_Blade)

So maybe Druid and Psychic Warrior? In tune with nature could be being in tune with the Force. And it's not so much that Jedi are fast, but they have high wisdom and can feel the will of the Force. So maybe a level of monk?

[MysticMind]

To make a Jedi, I would suggest you to make a new class. They can have jump bonus as they level up, tumble skill, featherfall ability, and something like ''craft lightsaber''. They could also have a number of powers to use with the Force (psionic powers for the d20 :D)

[danzibr]

To make a Jedi, I would suggest you to make a new class. They can have jump bonus as they level up, tumble skill, featherfall ability, and something like ''craft lightsaber''. They could also have a number of powers to use with the Force (psionic powers for the d20 :D)
While I certainly do appreciate all the responses... I'm afraid people missed what I'm after.

I specifically want to not do something with a lot of casting. Perhaps I should have thrown that in my tl;dr. While a Psychic Warrior can do almost everything a Jedi can, they can do *so much more*. You could just say, "Oh, don't do the rest of the stuff," but that's not very satisfactory.

Anyways, I like how in the above linked flame blade it says, "Effect: Sword-like beam"

[Mystify]

While I certainly do appreciate all the responses... I'm afraid people missed what I'm after.

I specifically want to not do something with a lot of casting. Perhaps I should have thrown that in my tl;dr. While a Psychic Warrior can do almost everything a Jedi can, they can do *so much more*. You could just say, "Oh, don't do the rest of the stuff," but that's not very satisfactory.

Anyways, I like how in the above linked flame blade it says, "Effect: Sword-like beam"

So you want something that happens to do exactly what jedis do, but nothing more?

[Morethankindand]

While I certainly do appreciate all the responses... I'm afraid people missed what I'm after.

I specifically want to not do something with a lot of casting. Perhaps I should have thrown that in my tl;dr. While a Psychic Warrior can do almost everything a Jedi can, they can do *so much more*. You could just say, "Oh, don't do the rest of the stuff," but that's not very satisfactory.

Anyways, I like how in the above linked flame blade it says, "Effect: Sword-like beam"

Pare down the Psychic Warrior power list and add in a few relevant ones from other places (Missive, Suggestion, Jump, etc). Now cross out "Psychic Warrior" and write "Jedi".

The DMG has a bit of advice on altering spell lists for when it made the "Witch" class.

[Mystify]

Pare down the Psychic Warrior power list and add in a few relevant ones from other places (Missive, Suggestion, Jump, etc). Now cross out "Psychic Warrior" and write "Jedi".

The DMG has a bit of advice on altering spell lists for when it made the "Witch" class.

This.
Some slight homebrewing is nessecary if you want something that specific.
Alternatively, just play the star wars saga edition. It has jedis that are actually meant to function like jedis.

[The Underlord]

Since no one else has, I'll plug for the incarnate. jedi-like things include: flight/bonuses to jump and tumble, suggestion at-will, incarnate blade (read: lightsaber for LN incarnate), IIRC telepathy (shedu crown?) you need a feat to pick this one up, IIRC blindsight(I think there is a soulmeld, but I can't remeber if there is one)none here, might be a totemist one, keeneye lenses gives see invisibilty early on, then truesight at later levels , and deflection bonus to AC(read: Parrying/reflexes). Sadly, you can't do Deflection bonus and telepathy because they occupy the same spot, but there might be a feat for that. I'm going to check Schneeky's list. edit done

[gallagher]

Pare down the Psychic Warrior power list and add in a few relevant ones from other places (Missive, Suggestion, Jump, etc). Now cross out "Psychic Warrior" and write "Jedi".

The DMG has a bit of advice on altering spell lists for when it made the "Witch" class.
I'll even do it for you because i am now going to play a jedi myself, so i will be doing it anyway.
All from the SRD:
1:Burst, call weaponry, catfall, conceal thoughts, detect psionics (i feel a disturbance in the force), empty mind, inertial armor, precog. off. and def., stomp (force push)
2:i feel like the following should be available, though my reasoning is flawed, at best: animal affinity, concealing amorpha, detect hostile intent, prowess, thought shield.
the following are definitely jedi things: hustle, levitate, lions charge
3:im not going to divide what i feel should be there and what i know will be on the list anymore, just list them together.
greater concealing amorpha, danger sense, escape detection, evade burst, mental barrier, ubiquitous vision.
4: freedom of movement, steadfast perception, weapon of energy
5:nothing here in the srd for you. maybe psychofeedback
6:mind blank

[Zonugal]

I'm just going to re-post this:


For a Jedi why not something akin to this?

Basic Jedi: Human Male Human Paragon 1/Ardent 2/Human Paragon 2/Ardent 1/Warblade 1; CR 7; Medium Humanoid (human); HD 3d8+6, 3d6+6, 1d12+2; hp 52; Init +1; Spd 30 ft. (20 ft. in armor); AC 16 (10 +5 armor +1 dex), touch 11, flat-footed 15; Base Atk +5; Grp +7; Atk +8 melee (1d10+4+1d4 sonic/19-20x2, lightsaber); SQ Adaptive Learning (Iaijutsu focus), Psionic Mantle (Knowledge, Guardian & Destruction), Battle Clarity (reflex saves), Weapon Aptitude; AL LG; SV Fort +6, Ref +3, Will +9; Str 14, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 10.
Skills, Skill Tricks and Feats: Concentration +12 (10 ranks +2 con), Diplomacy +8 (8 ranks +0 cha), Iaijutsu Focus +14 (10 ranks +0 cha +4 insight bonus), Knowledge (Local) +12 (10 ranks +2 int), Knowledge (Nature) +10 (8 ranks +2 int), Psicraft +11 (9 ranks +2 int), Read/Write/Speak (Common, Draconic, Undercommon) and Tumble +4 (7 ranks +1 dex –4 ACP); Collector of Stories; Combat Expertise, Fearless, Martial Weapon Proficiency (Short Sword), Knowledge Devotion, Stand Still and Steady Concentration.
Powers (ML 5; 32 power points/day): Defensive Precognition, Detect Hostile Intent, Mindlink, Psionic Suggestion, Read Thoughts and Vigor.
Maneuvers (IL 4; 3 readied): Action Before Thought, Moment of Perfect Mind, Mountain Hammer and Stance of Clarity.
Variants: Substitute Powers [Mind’s Eye]
Powers
Mind link: You forge a limited mental bond with another creature.
Defensive Precognition: Gain +1 insight bonus to AC and saving throws.
Vigor: Gain 5 temporary hit points.
Psionic Suggestion: Compels subject to follow stated course of action.
Read Thoughts: Detect surface thoughts of creatures in range.
Detect Hostile Intent: You can detect hostile creatures within 30ft. of you.
Maneuvers
Stance of Clarity: [Stance] Gain +2 AC against one foe, -2 against all others.
Moment of Perfect Mind: [Counter] Use Concentration check in place of Will save.
Action Before Thought: [Counter] Use Concentration check in place of Reflex save.
Mountain Hammer: [Strike] Deal +2d6 damage, overcome DR and Hardness.
Equipment: Lightsaber and Breastplate

Or if you wanted something more akin to Yoda?

Ancient Jedi: Male Venerable Kobold Ardent 4/Swordsage 1/Ardent 1/Swordsage 1; CR 7; Small Venerable Dragon (reptilian); HD 5d6+0, 2d8+0 ; hp 93; Init +5; Spd 15 ft.; AC 24 (10 +4 inertial armor +4 dex +1 natural armor +1 size bonus +4 wis), touch 19, flat-footed 16; Base Atk +4; Grp -2; Atk +7 melee ((1d8+5+1d4 sonic/19-20x2, lightsaber); SQ Darkvision (60ft.), Light Sensitivity, Slight Build, Psionic Mantles (Knowledge, Guardian & Destruction), Quick to Act (+1), AC bonus; AL LG; SV Fort +1, Ref +8, Will +11; Str 6, Dex 18, Con 10, Int 18, Wis 18, Cha 12.
Skills, Skill Tricks and Feats: Concentration +10 (10 ranks +0 con), Diplomacy +6 (5 ranks +1 cha), Hide +15 (3 ranks +4 dex +8 racial bonus), Knowledge (Arcana) +8 (4 ranks +4 int), Knowledge (Local) +14 (10 ranks +4 int), Knowledge (Nature) +14 (10 ranks +4 int), Knowledge (Religion) +8 (4 ranks +4 int), Psicraft +13 (9 ranks +4 int), Read/Write/Speak (Common, Draconic, Undercommon), Ride +5 (1 ranks +4 dex) and Sense Motive +14 (10 ranks +4 wis); Collector of Stories; Dragonwrought, Epic Toughness (x2), Improved Unarmed Strike, Shadow Blade, Weapon Finesse and Weapon Focus (Setting Sun weapons).
Traits and Flaws: Frail, Slow
Powers (ML 5; 35 power points/day): Clairvoyant Sense, Empathy, Inertial Armor, Psionic Suggestion, Read Thoughts and Vigor.
Maneuvers (IL 4.5; 4 readied): Action Before Thought, Child of Shadow, Counter Charge, Drain Vitality, Emerald Razor, Moment of Perfect Mind, Mountain Hammer, Shadow Jaunt and Step of the Wind.
Variants: Substitute Powers (Mind’s Eye) and Unarmed Swordsage (Tome of Battle).
Powers
Empathy: You know the subject's surface emotions.
Inertial Armor: Tangible field of force provides you with +4 armor bonus to AC.
Vigor: Gain 5 temporary hit points.
Psionic Suggestion: Compels subject to follow stated course of action.
Read Thoughts: Detect surface thoughts of creatures in range.
Clairvoyant Sense: See and hear a distant location.
Maneuvers
Moment of Perfect Mind: [Counter] Use Concentration check in place of Will save.
Action Before Thought: [Counter] Use Concentration check in place of Reflex save.
Mountain Hammer: [Strike] Deal +2d6 damage, overcome DR and Hardness.
Child of Shadow: [Stance] You gain concealment as long as you move.
Emerald Razor: [Strike] Turn melee strike into touch attack.
Shadow Jaunt: Teleport 50 ft. through shadows as a standard action.
Drain Vitality: [Strike] Attack deals 2 points of Constitution damage.
Step of the Wind: [Stance] Ignore difficult terrain, gain bonus against foes in such terrain.
Counter Charge: [Counter] Ruin charge attack, force charging foe to move away from you.
Equipment: Lightsaber

They could use these mantles?

Knowledge Mantle (The Force)
Granted Power: While psionically focused, you can make Knowledge checks as if trained. You can expend your psionic focus to gain a +5 bonus on one Knowledge check.
1. Detect Psionics (1): You detect the presence of psionics.
2. Mindlink (1): You forge a limited mental bond with another creature.
3. Vigor (1): Gain 5 temporary hit points.
4. Clairvoyant Sense (2): See and hear a distant location.
5. Psionic Suggestion (2): Compels subject to follow stated course of action.
6. Read Thoughts (2): Detect surface thoughts of creatures in range.
7. Telekinetic Maneuver (4): Telekinetically bull rush, disarm, grapple, or trip your target.
8. Psionic Divination (4): Provides useful advice for specific proposed action.
9. Correspond (4): Hold mental conversation with another creature at any distance.
10. Remote Viewing (4): See, hear, and potentially interact with subjects at a distance.

Justice Mantle (The Light Side)
Granted Power: You can expend your psionic focus as an immediate action to make an attack of opportunity against a foe that attacks one of your allies.
1. Empathy (1): You know the subject's surface emotions.
2. Bestow Power (2): Subject receives 2 power points.
3. Empathic Transfer (2): Transfer another's wounds to yourself.
4. Sustenance (2): You can go without food and water for one day
5. Serenity (2): Pacify a creature and stop it from fighting.
6. Restore Extremity (5): Return a lost digit, limb, or other appendage to subject.
7. Psionic Restoration (5): Restores level and ability score drains.
8. Psionic Revivify (5): Return the dead to life before the psyche leaves the corpse.
9. Suspend Life (6): Put yourself in a state akin to suspended animation.
10. True Metabolism (8): You regenerate 10 hit points/round.

Destruction Mantle (Battle)
Granted Power: You have the Improved Sunder feat as long as you are psionically focused. If you expend your focus as part of a sunder attempt, the hardness of the object you are sundering is treated as 4 less.
1. Inertial Armor (1): Tangible field of force provides you with +4 armor bonus to AC.
2. Force Screen (1): Invisible disk provides +4 shield bonus to AC.
3. Defensive Precognition (1): Gain +1 insight bonus to AC and saving throws.
4. Detect Hostile Intent (2): You can detect hostile creatures within 30ft. of you.
5. Hustle (3): Instantly gain a move action.
6. Psychic Containment (3): Temporarily disallow the use of psionics for a single creature.
7. Touchsight (3): Your telekinetic field tells you where everything is.
8. Schism (4): Your partitioned mind can manifest lower-level powers.
9. Energy Adaptation (4): Your body converts energy to harmless light.
10. Psychic Crush (5): Brutally crush subject's mental essence, reducing subject to -1 hit points.

And this could be their Lightsaber?

Basic Model Lightsaber ($11,350 gp or $2,769 with a dedicated Lightsaber crafter)
Sunsword with the Sonic, Focus and Deflecting enchantments with a Lesser Crystal of Return coupled with a Glove of the Master Strategist.
A +1, Masterwork Bastard Sword (treated as a Short Sword whenever advantageous) which does a extra 1d4 points of sonic damage on a successful hit and bestows a +4 insight bonus to the wielder's Iaijutsu focus checks while carrying the weapon, even if the weapon is sheathed. The lightsaber may be drawn as a free action and you may call it to your hand from 30ft away as a move action. In addition you can try to knock projectiles aimed at you out of the air. Once per round when you would normally be hit by a ranged weapon, you may make a DC 20 Reflex saving throw (if the ranged weapon has a magical enhancement bonus, the DC increases by that amount). If you succeed, the ranged weapon or projectile deflects away harmlessly. You must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed. Intrinsically connected to the Lightsaber is the mystical handling glove which allows you to store and retrieve held items into the glove as free actions as well as activate True Strike 1/day.

With a dedicated lightsaber crafter we can knock that price from $11,350 to $2,769 by using the Extraordinary Artisan, Magical Artisan (Craft Arms & Armor), Apprentice (Craftsman) and Blazing Forge planar touchstone feats in addition to restricting it to only those with a rank in Knowledge (Religion) and those of the Ardent Class (I'm just selecting for all practical intentions).

[Nizaris]

I second the spell casting Swordsage variant as well. Specialize in Tiger Claw and Diamond Mind and trade out some maneuvers for charm and telekinetic spells.

Brilliant energy looks nice and all for a lightsaber but since they can't effect non-living matter they wouldn't be able to cut the ice sticking you to the ceiling. I vote for an adamantine deflecting longsword that gives off light (for the glow effect) and uses whichever enchantment that allows you to retract the blade.

[Kansaschaser]

I second the spell casting Swordsage variant as well. Specialize in Tiger Claw and Diamond Mind and trade out some maneuvers for charm and telekinetic spells.

Brilliant energy looks nice and all for a lightsaber but since they can't effect non-living matter they wouldn't be able to cut the ice sticking you to the ceiling. I vote for an adamantine deflecting longsword that gives off light (for the glow effect) and uses whichever enchantment that allows you to retract the blade.

The reason I like the spellcasting Swordsage variant is because you never run out of power.

Granted, the Psychic Warrior fits most of the requirements for the "Jedi" build, but they can run out of power points.

As a Swordsage, you can regain your maneuvers/spells. That means you never run out of power.

[Morbis Meh]

I am surprised that no one gas mentioned master of the unseen hand... IMO that PrC screws Jedi...