[PF] Old age Penalties? What penalties?

[grarrrg]

I'm bored again! You know what that means!

...

Oh... you don't...
Well then....

It's Crazy Build Time!

Can we make an all 'mental stat' melee character?
Let's find out!

This is what we have to start with, we need to trade away/modify as many as possible:
To-Hit - Str
Damage - Str
Carrying Capacity - Str
AC - Dex
Initiative - Dex
Ref Save - Dex
HP - Con
Fort Save - Con

Monk/Sensei (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/sensei) archetype let's us add Wis to AC and at 2nd level we can use Wis to-hit.

Oracle (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle) is up next, the Lame Curse (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/oracle-curses) says our speed is never reduced because of Encumbrance, and the Lore Mystery (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle/mysteries/paizo---oracle-mysteries/lore) > Sidestep Secret lets us use Cha instead of Dex for AC and Ref Saves.

A 2 level dip into Inquisitor (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/inquisitor) lets us add Wis to Initiative.

Agent of the Grave (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/a-b/agent-of-the-grave) lets us use our Cha score for HP, this is NOT retroactive though, so we need to enter ASAP. The quickest entry is through Cleric, but we're going to take at least 1 level in Oracle anyway... *flips coin*

Aasimar is in the front running for best Race with +2 Wis, +2 Cha

The build so far is:
Aasimar
Lawful Evil
Cleric 5
Agent of the Grave 1
Oracle 1 (OR Oracle 6 > Agent of the Grave 1 > Monk....)
Monk/Sensei 2
Inquisitor 2
8 Bab (fractional)
11d8 HP +(5*Con) +(6*Cha)
Stats should (currently) be as follows:
Wis > Cha > Str > Con > Int > Dex
(I'd like Int to be higher and/or Str to be lower)

To-Hit - Wis
Damage - Str (or Wis if the 'Guided' weapon enchantment is allowed)
Carrying Capacity - Str (ignore movement penalties)
AC - Wis+Cha
Initiative - Dex+Wis
Ref Save - Cha
HP - Con-OR-Cha
Fort Save - Con

This is where you come in. What more can we do to make this character a Venerable Melee Badass?

The only other thoughts I had were some levels of Duelist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/core-rulebook/duelist) to get ALL THREE Mental stats to AC.
And/or Paladin for Divine Grace, but this would either require dropping Cha to HP, or taking the Martial Artist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/monk/archetypes/paizo---monk-archetypes/martial-artist) Monk Archetype to allow a Chaotic Evil Antipaladin.

On the plus side either/both options have Full Bab.

[jmelesky]

The only other thoughts I had were some levels of Duelist (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/core-rulebook/duelist) to get ALL THREE Mental stats to AC.

The Kensai (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus/archetypes/paizo---magus-archetypes/kensai) archetype for magus grants that ability starting at level 1, so no need to qualify for a prestige class. It has a bunch of other Int stuff at later levels (initiative, # of AoOs, crit confirmation, damage (during surprise round or against flat-footed only)), so you get more for staying around long enough to fill out your Int to AC. Not a full BAB, but you get the spellstrike and spell combat abilities, which are handy.

I suppose if you go Kensai magus and then prestige into duelist, you'll get Int to AC twice... Takes a lot of levels, though.

[Hiro Protagonest]

That oracle curse is so lame! :smalltongue:

...No, I don't have anything useful to add. Let's see if I can think of something...

Lore Warden's Know Thy Enemy let's you gain a +2 to attack with a successful knowledge check. Standard action when you gain it at 7th, swift action at 14th.

Tactician's Cooperative Combatant is sorta useful if your allies make lots of attack rolls. Gain at 11th level. At 15th level, you get Battle Insight, which gives your int mod as an insight bonus to attack rolls until the end of your next turn, as a swift action. Both of these require you to have allies, and be high level.

[grarrrg]

The Kensai (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/magus/archetypes/paizo---magus-archetypes/kensai) archetype for magus grants that ability starting at level 1, so no need to qualify for a prestige class. It has a bunch of other Int stuff at later levels (initiative, # of AoOs, crit confirmation, damage (during surprise round or against flat-footed only)), so you get more for staying around long enough to fill out your Int to AC. Not a full BAB, but you get the spellstrike and spell combat abilities, which are handy.

I suppose if you go Kensai magus and then prestige into duelist, you'll get Int to AC twice... Takes a lot of levels, though.

Magus up to level 4 would be good, that would give us up to 4 Int to AC, and we can use our Arcane Pool to maximize our damage on attacks. Int seems to be our least important Mental, so 4 should be plenty.
The "spell" abilities aren't important, it's easy to build a Caster/Mental build, we're trying to focus more on Melee/Mental.
That and Magus is a HECK of a lot easier/friendlier than qualifying for Duelist.


That oracle curse is so lame! :smalltongue:

Lore Warden's Know Thy Enemy let's you gain a +2 to attack with a successful knowledge check. Standard action when you gain it at 7th, swift action at 14th.

Tactician's....Gain at 11th level. At 15th level,...be high level.

To offset the speed penalty from our Oracle Curse, I'm thinking the Travel Domain, +10ft. movement. Back to base speed!
Oracle archetypes that might work would be either Theologian, we only get 1 domain, but it functions at +2 Cleric level (and remember, Inquisitor levels stack for Domain purposes).
Or the Evangelist would be nice, we lose some Channel Energy potency, but gain Performances, this would mesh nicely with the Performances we have from Sensei-Monk.

To fill out the rest of the build, some variant of Fighter would be nice for the Bab, Feats and Weapon Training.
I don't think the 7th level ability of Lore Warden is much worth it though, and we don't have enough levels left over to invest too much.
And speaking of levels, Tactician is right out.

Brawler looks about right though. The Monk/Sensei's Wis-to-hit only applies on Unarmed Strikes or Monk Weapons, and the Brawler gets +1 to-hit and +3 to damage in the Close weapon group. There is a fair amount of overlap between Monk and Close weapons, this will also help with our Str-to-damage problem (we still have poor Str, but can still do damage now).

Another problem I missed in my first post was Combat Maneuver Defense.
Ours is....hideously bad.
Brawler gives a bonus vs. some Maneuvers, and if we make our race Human or Half-Elf we can use Favored Class Bonus>Fighter to get bonuses vs. another 2 maneuvers. (Human can pick their maneuvers, but Half-Elfs can favored class Cleric as well)

Human (or Half-Elf)
Lawful Evil
*Cleric/Agent of the Grave MUST be first, all else is in no real order*
Cleric (Evangelist) 5
Agent of the Grave 1
Fighter (Brawler) 5
Inquisitor 2
Magus (Kensai) 4
Monk (Sensei) 2
Oracle 1

16 Bab (fractional)
HP 5d10 + 15d8 +(5*Con) +(15*Cha)
Stats should (currently) be as follows:
Wis > Cha > Int > Con > Str > Dex

Must use a Monk weapon, cannot wear armor.
To-Hit - Wis
Damage - Str (between Brawler and the option to take Weapon Specialization we should be ok)
Carrying Capacity - Str (Ant Haul spell, and we can ignore movement penalties)
AC - Int+Wis+Cha (MUHUHAHAHAHAHA! It's all Touch AC too!)
Initiative - Dex+Wis
Ref Save - Cha
HP - Con/Cha
Fort Save - Con

I'd still like to get the Fort Save up, and we are still semi-dependent on Str for damage. But I like the results.
As a 5th level Cleric our carrying capacity is 'permanently' tripled, so long as we cast Ant Haul twice a day (duration is 2 hour/level).

[Socratov]

How about not taking agent of the grave and spend 1 LA (to be bought off later) to become a necropolitan making you undead, giving d12 hp, and changing any skills depending on Con to depend on Cha.