View Full Version : [3.P] Wu jen spell in a Wizards spell list
Helldog
2012-02-12, 06:38 AM
I need to get a Wu jen spell into a Wizards spell list so he can cast it. More specifically Giant Size (and maybe Body Outside Body).
How?
Thurbane
2012-02-12, 06:48 AM
It's limited usage per day, and needs to be refreshed, but a Ring of Theurgy (CAr p.145) can do it.
Helldog
2012-02-12, 06:56 AM
It's limited usage per day, and needs to be refreshed, but a Ring of Theurgy (CAr p.145) can do it.
I don't think it works. It says "For wizards and other characters who prepare spells, the ring serves as a small and quickly accessible spellbook capable of storing up to three spells of any level the wearer can cast".
Hirax
2012-02-12, 06:57 AM
Wyrm wizard from Dragon Magic is one of the few ways to grab any spell from any class. And of course, arcane disciple (luck) gets you miracle, which for no XP can mimic any spell of 7th level or lower. Oriental Adventures has the hero domain for shamans, which has giant size. Shaman domains work exactly like cleric domains, so your DM might let you get access to its spells via arcane disciple or planar touchstone.
paddyfool
2012-02-12, 07:13 AM
Ask your DM to just let you use it, either as stands or at a spell level one higher? It's hardly more powerful than what's on the list already...
Helldog
2012-02-12, 07:21 AM
Ask your DM to just let you use it, either as stands or at a spell level one higher? It's hardly more powerful than what's on the list already...
That's not an option.
paddyfool
2012-02-12, 09:02 AM
Get a Wu Jen cohort via leadership?
BTW, are you looking for buffs for your War Troll?
Helldog
2012-02-12, 09:05 AM
Get a Wu Jen cohort via leadership?
I want it for a Wizard, not a Wizards cohort.
BTW, are you looking for buffs for your War Troll?
No.
Psyren
2012-02-12, 10:05 AM
Shades gets you BoB. The only option for GS I see is Wish.
Any reason you can't be a Wu Jen? (Aside from not wanting to, not that there's anything wrong with that.)
Grendus
2012-02-12, 11:58 AM
Extra Spell works by RAW. FAQ says that doesn't work, but FAQ's not RAW.
Cross class UMD and a runestaff works as well, just have to be able to beat the DC.
Ernir
2012-02-12, 12:31 PM
If you only need two, you can use Recaster (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20050407b&page=3). If you're not a changeling, a Polymorph Any Object spell might be enough to fix that.
Or, as Psyren said, Shades for BoB and Wish for Giant Size. Go into Dweomerkeeper (Complete Divine web enhancement) or something to negate the experience cost. You might even be able to Divine Metamagic it for Persist.
You could use Supernatural Spell for much, much worse things than a few Giant Sizes, by the way.
Extra Spell works by RAW.
People still talk about whether it's legal.
Grendus
2012-02-12, 05:07 PM
People still talk about whether it's legal.
It's completely RAW legal, nothing in the text specifies that the spell has to come from your list and it was not even mentioned in the errata. There's no question as to whether it's legal.
The question is whether it's RAI. The text is somewhat ambiguous on this, it specifically mentions that prepared spellcasters would use the feat "to learn a specific spell that the character lacks access to and would be unable to research", suggesting that it was intended only to allow you to learn from your own spell list. FAQ states that it was only intended to learn new spells from the classes own list. It isn't unlikely that it wasn't intended to learn spells from another classes list.
It's legal, just like infinite wish loops and Pun Pun are legal. It's not even the cheesiest thing you could do with a feat. Heck, by the time you can use Extra Spell to get Giant Size you have access to Polymorph Any Object, two castings and the fighter is an Ettin anyways. As far as balance goes, it's not even that bad.
dextercorvia
2012-02-12, 06:10 PM
It's completely RAW legal, nothing in the text specifies that the spell has to come from your list and it was not even mentioned in the errata. There's no question as to whether it's legal.
Nothing in the description says that it can come from another list, and the default case when you choose a spell known is that it has to come from your list.
Wyrm Wizard, Recaster, or Miracle work.
Talionis
2012-02-12, 06:17 PM
Research Spell in the DM's guide. Generally if Wu Jen has access to the spell you know the spell is balanced in general. Then all you have to do is put the resources into researching it. Of course this requires DM approval, but its not a give me. You gave XP and other resources along with a roll to see if you could get access to it. If your DM requires negotiation, then I'd suggest making it one level higher, that generally seems to be the tradeoff when Bard or a Domain of Cleric gets a spell earlier than others would normally.
Thrice Dead Cat
2012-02-12, 06:41 PM
Nothing in the description says that it can come from another list, and the default case when you choose a spell known is that it has to come from your list.
Wyrm Wizard, Recaster, or Miracle work.
If OA is available, Arcane Disciple: Hero can grab it as a 7th level spell. Otherwise, you're stuck with one of the three above.
If OA is available, Arcane Disciple: Hero can grab it as a 7th level spell. Otherwise, you're stuck with one of the three above.
And Wyrm Wizard is probably the best choice of those.
Psyren
2012-02-12, 07:00 PM
Nothing in the description says that it can come from another list, and the default case when you choose a spell known is that it has to come from your list.
This, otherwise why stop at Wu Jen and Wizard? Use it to learn Heal and Reincarnate.
This, otherwise why stop at Wu Jen and Wizard? Use it to learn Heal and Reincarnate.
Or Greater Anyspell? :smallwink:
Andion Isurand
2012-02-12, 08:18 PM
You could always go for the Shadowcraft Mage with at least the following:
Earth Spell
Heighten Spell
Earth Sense
Arcane Disciple [Luck, Zeal or Hope domain]
...and use the Shadow Illusion feature to duplicate Miracle using heightened Silent Image in tandem with the Earth Spell feat
Thurbane
2012-02-13, 01:21 AM
I don't think it works. It says "For wizards and other characters who prepare spells, the ring serves as a small and quickly accessible spellbook capable of storing up to three spells of any level the wearer can cast".
I would have thought it does work - you've put the emphasis in there, but it could just as easily be read as:
For wizards and other characters who prepare spells, the ring serves as a small and quickly accessible spellbook capable of storing up to three spells of any level the wearer can cast.
I believe that passage is referring to a level limit, not a class list limit. Further down in the second function of the ring for spontaneous casters it specifically mentions casting spells not on your list. YMMV - I'd rule it to work in a game I DMd.
Helldog
2012-02-13, 05:08 AM
Any reason you can't be a Wu Jen? (Aside from not wanting to, not that there's anything wrong with that.)
I'm a Wizard.
Extra Spell works by RAW. FAQ says that doesn't work, but FAQ's not RAW.
I use FAQ, unless I disagree with it.
For now Wyrm Wizard is at the top of my list. It even gives me some inspiration for the character.
Psyren
2012-02-13, 08:53 AM
I'm a Wizard.
Hence the use of future tense :smalltongue:
I don't know anything about WW though, so can't help you there.
Helldog
2012-02-13, 08:59 AM
Hence the use of future tense :smalltongue:
13 or 14 levels of Wu jen is too big of an investment for one or two spells.
Talionis
2012-02-13, 01:12 PM
13 or 14 levels of Wu jen is too big of an investment for one or two spells.
There are an awful lot of prestige classes that advance Wu Jen. Wu Jen casting list is really not supposed to be as small as it is. I think Spell Compendium or one of the books suggests that any spell that effects an element that a Wu Jen can have its focus on is appropriate to be a Wu Jen spell, they just never took the time to go through the list at put Wu Jen next to it.
Wu Jen is not meant to be a small spellist only its supposed to focus on the elements.
Helldog
2012-02-13, 01:23 PM
There are an awful lot of prestige classes that advance Wu Jen. Wu Jen casting list is really not supposed to be as small as it is. I think Spell Compendium or one of the books suggests that any spell that effects an element that a Wu Jen can have its focus on is appropriate to be a Wu Jen spell, they just never took the time to go through the list at put Wu Jen next to it.
Wu Jen is not meant to be a small spellist only its supposed to focus on the elements.
Yeah, but I'm only interested in two spells out of it, not the class.
Heliomance
2012-02-13, 01:46 PM
personally, I'm quite fond of Transcend Mortality. I hope to have an opportunity to cast that in a game at some point.
Psyren
2012-02-13, 01:57 PM
personally, I'm quite fond of Transcend Mortality. I hope to have an opportunity to cast that in a game at some point.
Combine with Jade Phoenix Mage's Emerald Immolation for fun and profit. Immolate in the final round of your transcendence, and return totally unscathed 1d6 rounds later with no level loss.
The flavor synergy is cool too - both Wu Jen and Jade Phoenix are very eastern-themed.
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