View Full Version : What is the save for Implosion?
Electric Monk
2012-02-12, 06:51 PM
I was thinking it had to be fortitude because elves tend to have low con and both Rangers and Rogues have high dex, and at least the Ranger had a high will save, and I just spent twenty minutes going through the quizzically draconian registration process for this bloody forum, including a bout of existential panic when ask if I was human, simply to ask this one nagging question that has been bothering me for weeks.
And to say this strip rocks, and I check for a new update every day.
Maybe they just rolled low.
Lord Ruby34
2012-02-12, 06:57 PM
The Implosion Spell. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/implosion.htm)
Bit Fiend
2012-02-12, 06:57 PM
Fortitude (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/implosion.htm).
By the way, typin "srd implosion" in Google would have been a lot easier than the process you describe... but welcome to the forum nonetheless.:smallwink:
Edit: Swordsaged...
Chess Tyrant
2012-02-12, 06:58 PM
Spell description (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Implosion)
Yes, it's a Fortitude save - I think the DC is 19 + Redcloak's Wisdom modifier, which has to be at least +4, so a minimum of 23.
Edit: damn, I went to look up some extra stats and got ninja'd... twice.
Bit Fiend
2012-02-12, 07:00 PM
Yes, it's a Fortitude save - but I think the base save is 19 + Redcloak's Wisdom modifier, which must be, let me see, at least +9 (to get a bonus 9th level spell)...
I don't know what the stats on Team Peregrine were, but a 12th-level ranger with 14-15 constitution and no other Fortitude save buffs would need to roll at least an 18 to save against that.
Wis 19 is a +4 modifier...
Edit: Sorry for nitpicking, I'm just desperate for things to distract me from my studies...
Chess Tyrant
2012-02-12, 07:03 PM
Wait, crap, Earthquake is an 8th level spell. My bad, I've never played a cleric. :smalltongue:
shadowkiller
2012-02-12, 07:13 PM
Wis 19 is a +4 modifier...
Edit: Sorry for nitpicking, I'm just desperate for things to distract me from my studies...
Yes that is true but Redcloak is a 17th level cleric with an artifact designed for clerics his Wis score is going to be much higher than 19.
Saves are calculated by 10+ spell level +relevant modifier.
Bit Fiend
2012-02-12, 07:23 PM
Yes that is true but Redcloak is a 17th level cleric with an artifact designed for clerics his Wis score is going to be much higher than 19.
Saves are calculated by 10+ spell level +relevant modifier.
Yes, this is why "at least" was included... you are certainly right that his modifier is higher, but there is no way to determine how much higher (afaik), so "at least +4" is the only meaningful numerical value we can give...
Killer Angel
2012-02-13, 03:34 AM
Yes, this is why "at least" was included... you are certainly right that his modifier is higher, but there is no way to determine how much higher (afaik), so "at least +4" is the only meaningful numerical value we can give...
We know it's higher.
You can find useful infos in the Class and levels geekery thread. Here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12634343&postcount=2)'s the post with a summary for TE. :smallwink:
Idhan
2012-02-13, 03:59 AM
Technically, Redcloak could have 19 wisdom and spell focus (necromancy) and have a 21 not beat his destruction save DC. However, I think it's pretty likely that his wisdom is significantly higher than 19.
We know that in Redcloak's duel with the High Priest of the Southern Gods, a 21 didn't save, but the High Priest actually had a 22. However, we don't actually know if a 22 would have saved, either.
Grey_Wolf_c
2012-02-13, 10:51 PM
We know that in Redcloak's duel with the High Priest of the Southern Gods, a 21 didn't save, but the High Priest actually had a 22. However, we don't actually know if a 22 would have saved, either.
He wouldn't be that upset if 22 was also a fail. The joke pretty much only works if 22 would've saved him.
GW
What about O-Chul? This man took a vapor shot and survived. He might get to beat up sea monsters along the way to level up.
Chronos
2012-02-13, 11:32 PM
Except he doesn't know what would save him. Remember, he had to ask Redcloak in the first place whether his save number was high enough. He's thinking "Maybe I would have saved", but he has no way to know for sure.
JonathanC
2012-02-15, 01:44 PM
We know that in Redcloak's duel with the High Priest of the Southern Gods, a 21 didn't save, but the High Priest actually had a 22. However, we don't actually know if a 22 would have saved, either.
How do we know that the Priest actually got a 22?
Douglas
2012-02-15, 01:55 PM
How do we know that the Priest actually got a 22?
Because he said so here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0486.html).
King of Nowhere
2012-02-15, 02:50 PM
we don't know for sure redcloak's wisdom score, but we may do some estimates. an optimized cleric would start at 18, get +4 for levels, has a +6 for item, and redcloak also got +3 for aging, that would put his wisddom at 31 for a +10 modifier. CD 29, plus eventual spell focus. ouch!
but no one in oots is particularly optimized, so redcloak probably is lower than that.
let's say he started at 16, got +4 for levels, +4 for item, and somehow didn't got ageing bonus. would be 24, a +7, putting the CD at 26.
Assuming redcloak to be less optimized than that is a stretch.
it is also possible that the crimson mantle, being an artifact designed for clerics, grant a wis bonus greater than +6. so the cd may be up to 32.
Anyway, even a 26 is enough to get a good chance at killing level 10 adventurers.
He wouldn't be that upset if 22 was also a fail. The joke pretty much only works if 22 would've saved him.
GW
Why are you assuming he knows, instead of regretting not being in a position to ask Redcloak, "Wait, it's not a 21, does a 22 save?"
Idhan
2012-02-15, 11:45 PM
He wouldn't be that upset if 22 was also a fail. The joke pretty much only works if 22 would've saved him.
GW
There is no point at which the high priest learns what the actual save DC is. He says "does a 21 save?" and Redcloak replies, monosyllabically, "No." Not "no, the save DC is 22," not "No, the save DC is 25," just "no." As far as the high priest knows, the save DC was anywhere from 22 up. It still makes sense that he wishes he had calculated his saving throw correctly, because as far as he knows, it might have saved, but he doesn't know.
we don't know for sure redcloak's wisdom score, but we may do some estimates. an optimized cleric would start at 18, get +4 for levels, has a +6 for item, and redcloak also got +3 for aging, that would put his wisddom at 31 for a +10 modifier. CD 29, plus eventual spell focus. ouch!
If you're talking theoretical maximum, there are also inherent bonuses of +1 to +5 from reading a Tome of Understanding or using wishes (e.g., from a ring of wishes). That gets you to a maximum of 36 wisdom, or a +13 modifier.
Porthos
2012-02-17, 05:55 PM
we don't know for sure redcloak's wisdom score, but we may do some estimates. an optimized cleric would start at 18, get +4 for levels, has a +6 for item, and redcloak also got +3 for aging, that would put his wisddom at 31 for a +10 modifier. CD 29, plus eventual spell focus. ouch!
but no one in oots is particularly optimized, so redcloak probably is lower than that.
let's say he started at 16, got +4 for levels, +4 for item, and somehow didn't got ageing bonus. would be 24, a +7, putting the CD at 26.
Slight SoD spoilers:
It is implied, but not outright stated, that Redcloak doesn't get Wisdom for getting older.
Well, that's one interpetation of a scene near the end of the book, at least.
Because he said so here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0486.html).
I always assumed it was a joke on the queue he was in. Like he'd been assigned ticket number #22 and they called #23 first?
phantomreader42
2012-02-19, 07:07 PM
we don't know for sure redcloak's wisdom score, but we may do some estimates. an optimized cleric would start at 18, get +4 for levels, has a +6 for item, and redcloak also got +3 for aging, that would put his wisddom at 31 for a +10 modifier. CD 29, plus eventual spell focus. ouch!
but no one in oots is particularly optimized, so redcloak probably is lower than that.
let's say he started at 16, got +4 for levels, +4 for item, and somehow didn't got ageing bonus. would be 24, a +7, putting the CD at 26.
Assuming redcloak to be less optimized than that is a stretch.
it is also possible that the crimson mantle, being an artifact designed for clerics, grant a wis bonus greater than +6. so the cd may be up to 32.
Anyway, even a 26 is enough to get a good chance at killing level 10 adventurers.
Been a while since I read Start of Darkness, but as I recall from there Redcloak kinda fell into the position, so he might not be optimized for cleric. Also, the mantle has been said somewhere to stop him from aging, so he may or may not get the age bonuses (druids do, but they also eventually die).
Been a while since I read Start of Darkness, but as I recall from there Redcloak kinda fell into the position, so he might not be optimized for cleric.
He fell into the position of Bearer of the Crimson Mantle.
He became, of his own free will, a white-cloaked acolyte who humbly aspired to serve his people well.
Both point toward valuing good-for-cleric stats equally.
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