beguler in combat?

[JackRackham]

How would one go about maximizing a beguiler's combat utility? Is there a way to get some more useful high-level offensive spells? Are there any ACFs that would be useful? As-is, the only offensive spells seem to be in the enchantment school, unless there are more beguiler spells in other books.

[blazingshadow]

get shadow conjuration/evocation spells and use those. otherwise read the handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=0a7mgr00airevrgfrhgh18kis7&topic=2322)

[Thurbane]

This is a common misconception - Beguilers have quite a few attacking spells that aren't Enchantment. Solid Fog, Glitterdust, Slow etc.

If you really want direct damage causing spells, easiest way (once you can afford it) is probably to UMD a Runestaff (Runestaff of Fire, Runestaff of Evocation, Runestaff of Power etc.).

[Gwendol]

But they don't necessarily need that... they have plenty more options.

[Bloodgruve]

I'm building a Beguiler/Daggerspell Mage with a touch of Spellthief and Mindbender/Mindsight, 3.P game with PF feat progression. Very fun so far.

There is a way to get wizard spells and cast them through feats. Magical Training (Wizard) + Versatile Spellcasting + decent spellcraft. Find a spell, write it into your spellbook from Magical Training using Spellcraft. Drop spell slots to cast any spell you know via Versatile Spellcasting.

You now have the ability to cast any spell you can log in your spellbook, given you have the slots to burn. ;)

Also, Runestaff's and the Arcane Disciple and Bloodline feats improve your spell list.

Your job as a Beguiler is to mess with your opponents enough to allow your monk and warmage to kill them.

GL
Blood~

[Urpriest]

Yeah, almost every Beguiler spell is offensive. They've got a few buffs and a bit of utility, but most of the rest of their list is offensive Enchantment, Illusion, and BFC.

[Snowbluff]

1) Swiftblade with Versatile Spell Caster is your Gish option.

2) Arcane Disciple, get a Domain with damaging spells, like Fire or Destruction.
this can be used to get many spells Bequiler wouldn't normally get.

[hex0]

Spellthief (preferably Trickster), then dip into Unseen Seer for hunter's eye?

[Gnaeus]

Rainbow Servant (PRC, gives you all cleric spells) is another strong way. Fiend Blooded (PRC, lets you add fire spells) works well also.

[Ziegander]

There is a way to get wizard spells and cast them through feats. Magical Training (Wizard) + Versatile Spellcasting + decent spellcraft. Find a spell, write it into your spellbook from Magical Training using Spellcraft. Drop spell slots to cast any spell you know via Versatile Spellcasting.

Wait. Is this legit? Could a Sorcerer just take Magical Training + Versatile Spellcasting to essentially become a Wizard?

[gkathellar]

Wait. Is this legit? Could a Sorcerer just take Magical Training + Versatile Spellcasting to essentially become a Wizard?

Yes, although spellbook costs will be annoying at low levels.

Alacritous Cogitation + Versatile Spellcaster also lets you pull off the "full wizard list on spontaneous tap" trick as an actual wizard. But unless you're using it to get 9th-level spells at level 1, its brokenness is inferior.

Note that either of these trips deserves whipping. With whips.

[Chronos]

Rainbow Servant (PRC, gives you all cleric spells) is another strong way. Be advised that there's some controversy about this. The text of the class says that you gain spellcasting progression at every level, but the table shows only 6/10 progression. While the general rule is that text trumps table, many DMs will still say that the obvious intent was to lose those levels, and say that the table is correct. While this is technically a houserule, DMs are allowed to set houserules, after all.

[gkathellar]

Be advised that there's some controversy about this. The text of the class says that you gain spellcasting progression at every level, but the table shows only 6/10 progression. While the general rule is that text trumps table, many DMs will still say that the obvious intent was to lose those levels, and say that the table is correct. While this is technically a houserule, DMs are allowed to set houserules, after all.

IIRC the big legitimization is that in the Portugese translation, the table is corrected to match the text.

[Gnaeus]

Honestly, even if table trumps text, 16th level spontaneous casting from all cleric + beguiler spells is still pretty awesome. Not the absolute top of the power chart, but hardly so weak as to be unplayable, and it clearly has combat utility.

[tiercel]

I kind of like Unsettling Enchantment (CM), since it applies a minor debuff to your Enchantment targets any time they have to save (whether or not they succeed). Given the number of offensive Enchantment spells a Beguiler has, Spell Focus (Ench) is a good idea anyway.

UMD is the super obvious way to add to your repertoire, whether it's Runestaves or old-fashioned staves or what have you.

But you are a Beguiler, you shouldn't worry TOO much about being something you're not other than contingency planning; you hang around with a party for a reason. (And the base spell list is actually pretty nice.)

Some people will say "oh no mind blank trumps so much of Beguiler, especially together with true seeing."

Honestly? By time you get to power levels where you actually encounter these, you should probably be dispelling Stack O' Buffs anyway (plus you can use your slots to spontaneously cast (greater) arcane sight vs spellcasters so you should have some idea of what you're facing).

If you really want mega-extra versatility while still staying Beguiler-ish, there is the Killer Gnome build (see Shadowcraft Mage Handbook (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872354/Shadowcraft_Mage_Handbook)).

[Ryulin18]

A fellow adventurer is playing a beguiler. He charts his damage usually and works out how good a build is by damage done and how often.
As a beguiler, I laughed at how few damage spells he has. Well, I laughed on the other side of my face when he showed me the damage list he made for our first 10 sessions.

He was taking note of everyone he de buffed or crowd controlled and counting the damage that could of only been done through his de buffs as his damage.

It was immense. You can control so well that you are an all out "I don't need to damage you, I got friends to do that" build. :smallbiggrin:

[Chronos]

IIRC the big legitimization is that in the Portugese translation, the table is corrected to match the text.I thought it was the other way around; that they changed the text to match the table.

But the list at the beginning of the chapter which lists Rainbow Servant as "moderate spellcasting" (along with Sacred Fist and Seeker of the Misty Isle, which have the same text/table inconsistency), as well as the fact that the levels where the table doesn't advance spellcasting are the same as the levels where you get added spells on your list, certainly seems to suggest that the original intent was for 6/10 casting.