Craft Wondrous Item Makes Me Sad - Please Show Me What I'm Missing?

[house.au]

I'm hoping someone can point out just where I've screwed up here, I'm trying to follow the rules for estimating Magic Item values as per this table in the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#tableEstimatingMagicItemGol dPieceValues).

So of course I've probably chosen a difficult example to look at first. It's occurred to me that this might be something where a bit of discretion has simply been applied seeing as an extra-dimensional storage item is a bit different to a +1 bonus on a weapon etc and the rules simply don't cover it.

For example I know that the GP value should work out to be half the Base Price (which is usually Market Price as per PHB or DMG), with XP at 1/25 (or 4%) of Base Price.

I was looking at creating a Handy Haversack (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#handyHaversack) for my group. From what I'm reading on the Creating Magic Items (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm) page the above means I'd need to pay 1,000GP & 80XP as far as use of the feat goes. Given that I'm a Cleric, and none of the arcane casters in my party can cast the required spell - Secret Chest (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/secretChest.htm), I need to add another 250GP (at least) to convince a Wizard to assist by casting the spell.

I was concerned for a moment that I'd also have to pay 5,050 for the Secret Chest itself and Replica, but as I understand that's not applicable. That by itself would of course make Handy Haversacks a ridiculous loss for the NPC vendors, so I'm pretty sure it's just common sense to ignore that?

However when I tried to crunch the numbers from the value estimation table (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#tableEstimatingMagicItemGol dPieceValues) to double-check that made sense I get way different figures, even if I only look at the cost in materials/XP from using the feat itself.

I figure Spell Level x Caster Level x 1,000GP given that the spell has greater than 24-hour duration as per the below.


If a continuous item has an effect based on a spell with a duration measured in rounds, multiply the cost by 4. If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2, and if the duration is 10 minutes/level, multiply the cost by 1.5. If the spell has a 24-hour duration or greater, divide the cost in half.

So, given that the minimum caster level for Secret Chest is 5, I use the handy formula for figuring out the base price on a Use-activated or continuous use item? Please forgive my crude mapping out of this equation, it's been a while since I've had to explain my maths to anyone :smallredface:

5 x 5 = 25
25 x 1000 = 25,000Gp

So, I have to assume I've missed a few things? Fill me with wisdom!

In fact, if anyone cares to lead me through it, there's another thing we were talking about in my group. Our Dwarven Warrior has developed a great affection for our casters using Summon Monster III (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/summonMonsterIII.htm) to bring a Celestial Bison (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/bison.htm) to the fray. I wanted to figure out what the cost would likely be for say, a figurine of a Bison that transforms into one, maybe just once per day or once per week when a Dwarf yells a command word? The similarity to a Bag of Tricks (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#bagofTricks) hasn't escaped me, however if I can't even get pre-existing items to add up correctly I'm pretty sure I'll make a mess of creating my own.

[Need_A_Life]

Well
A) To create a HHH, just use the already figured-out price in the DMG to base gp and XP costs on. The guidelines on magic item creation are simply guidelines.
B) Secret Chest
(9CL*5spell level)=45
45*2000=90k+5000 for the chest=95k
... which is clearly too much.

[Mystify]

There isn't really any guidelines for the pricing of extra-dimensional space. You need to use the secret chest spell to create the item, but its not really a continuous secret chest spell.

Other items tend to be much more apparent in their costs. bags of holding and handy haversacks are kinda an oddball.

[tyckspoon]

Basically, those formulas are only really used for consumables- wands, staffs, scrolls, and potions. The Wondrous Items in the book are priced with a completely different and hidden set of rules.. but just today, 'cause I'm feeling nice, I'll let you know what it is. Listen close, I'll only post it once:


They cost whatever the designer thought was a good price.

That's it. Ignore the 'creating a magic item' tables. All you need to know for Wondrous Items is the Market Cost and Cost to Create, which are already given in the item entries (plus, as you noted, the cost of hiring somebody to help you with any prerequisites you are not able to meet yourself.)

Edit: For the other thing, the actual way you usually want to determine prices is to find something similar and adjust appropriately for whether your idea is weaker/stronger. Summoning an enhanced/controlled animal from a figurine does already exist- check out the Figurines of Wondrous Power. Your Celestial Bison is probably not more powerful than the Griffon or the pair of Lions, so it would be no more than 10,000. (Note that the Figurines are, IMO, rather overpriced for what they do, so I'd reduce that price pretty generously.)

[house.au]

You are all wonderful people :smallbiggrin:


Well
A) To create a HHH, just use the already figured-out price in the DMG to base gp and XP costs on. The guidelines on magic item creation are simply guidelines.

Fair enough, I did consider that but I dismissed myself thinking "Surely they nailed this down right? I must be missing something!". Of course, why I expected that in a system where you can't see the moon I don't know ;)


There isn't really any guidelines for the pricing of extra-dimensional space. You need to use the secret chest spell to create the item, but its not really a continuous secret chest spell.

Other items tend to be much more apparent in their costs. bags of holding and handy haversacks are kinda an oddball.

Excellent point about it not really being the same spell too.


... but just today, 'cause I'm feeling nice, I'll let you know what it is. Listen close, I'll only post it once:

They cost whatever the designer thought was a good price.

That's it. Ignore the 'creating a magic item' tables. All you need to know for Wondrous Items is the Market Cost and Cost to Create, which are already given in the item entries (plus, as you noted, the cost of hiring somebody to help you with any prerequisites you are not able to meet yourself.)

Edit: For the other thing, the actual way you usually want to determine prices is to find something similar and adjust appropriately for whether your idea is weaker/stronger. Summoning an enhanced/controlled animal from a figurine does already exist- check out the Figurines of Wondrous Power. Your Celestial Bison is probably not more powerful than the Griffon or the pair of Lions, so it would be no more than 10,000. (Note that the Figurines are, IMO, rather overpriced for what they do, so I'd reduce that price pretty generously.)

Heh, as I said I suspected, but erred on the side of assuming I'm a newbie who just doesn't get it :smalltongue:

It does make creating custom items rather problematic... I mean I fully accept that my DM could just say NOPE to anything I came up with anyway, but having a more solid framework to work from would have been nice :smallsmile:

Also, I knew I'd heard of something closer than a Bag Of Tricks, thanks for pointing me at it!