OOTS #834 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

Kickstarter update later today.

[Blisstake]

Haha, one way to use your skills.

I guess the bright side to having hemorrhoids stopping me from falling asleep is that I can see the OotS update right away :smallsmile:

[OoTLink]

I hope Roy and the others don't get a random unpleasant surprise. On the other hand, ranch dressing takes me back to the olden days. Mmmm.

How could vaarsuvius alter the taste of ranch dressing though? XD

[SamBurke]

WOAH. Windy Canyon.

Things are moving.

[Branco]

So Elan is back to being stupid and childish again? I guess we forgot about that cheap source of character-oriented humor just too fast...

[MyNameIsSecret]

I'm just reading through past comics, when I accidently click 'latest comic', and guess what pops up! I guess miracles do happen.

Great comic again, Giant.

[cc_kizz]

Yay! Our favorite party is (mostly) back! I'm appreciating the canyony details. :-)

[Roland Itiative]

Great punchline :smallbiggrin: And man, Roy is in for a big surprise thinking they have a tactical advantage this time... And I wonder if the spellcasters will have came back before all Hell breaks loose.

[ti'esar]

Y'know, Banjo seems pretty nervous for a deity.

More sensible comment to be posted after I get some sleep.

[Edhelras]

A change of pace!

I needed that, after all that excitement back in Azure City. And I agree with Roy: I really want to see the whole OOTS back together as one team, again. Remember, Giant: Never split the party!

[Elder Tsofu]

Hm, Roy seem to be a bit cranky. ^^

[fergo]

So it actually looks like they're going to get V back sooner than I expected... unless something BIG is about to happen. Either way, I await eagerly :smallbiggrin:.

[Iferus]

So you're in the desert,waiting, with no plans for the next couple of hours.


Roll up some stats.

[Onyavar]

Questions, questions...
They are close? Because V changed a milk lake into sour buttermilk, or what?

The "seasoned" is clear to me, but... Is "Woodsman" a dressing type, or just another word for tracker/ranger?

Also, I'm surprised, I checked oots, loocked at a few other pages and then came back to the forum, and first page? What's going on?

[Crod]

Durkon: "Where are you?" V:"Everything looks the same, but the ground tastes like..."

Haha.. fantastic use of Belkar's Gourmet chef skill.

[Tundar]

Banjo is worried? Now they are in real trouble!

[Mr. Snuggles]

1) Hey! The party just traveled from one place to another without having a random encounter! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0145.html) And this was an opportunity to fight flying enemies. I was looking forward to Hawkmen from the Flash Gordon movie.

2) Belkar sure is evil, letting his cat drink milk like that. That's animal abuse, for sure. An inspired way to show us just what a rascal he is, well done.

[lothos]

So presumably Durkon will rescue V and bring the new "Small Size, Two Weapon wielder" back... We know Belkar's days are numbed... are they now in single digits ?

[Killer Angel]

So Elan is back to being stupid and childish again?

Apparently yes. I know it's for comedic reasons, but I find it somehow disappointing for his "growth"...

[Yendor]

The "seasoned" is clear to me, but... Is "Woodsman" a dressing type, or just another word for tracker/ranger?

Yes, a woodsman is someone experienced at survival in the woods, like a ranger. "Seasoned" of course is a pun, being used in the culinary sense, and also meaning "experienced".

[Surfie]

I'm a little concerned here. Whilst I applaud the fact that Roy has learned not to split the party too much due to the tactical disadvantage, it would seem that he has not fully learned the lesson.

Would not the smarter thing to do be to have the ENTIRE PARTY plane shift, rescue V, then plane shift back to the Windy Canyon?

I mean, there may be some logic to doing it this way (and I admit, my knowledge on plane shifting is vague at best), but speaking as a player - splitting up, even like this, is just ASKING for trouble.

[skaddix]

Cool Hopefully the party gets back together before the next fight.

[valce]

I almost forgot about this, so I figured other people might like a refresher as well:

At the end of the last fight, V was teleported to a plane of ranch dressing by the dark elf.

[RMS Oceanic]

I don't see Elan retaining some of his childishness as backsliding on his character development. He had character development before, like confronting Nale in Azure City, and he still turned to Banjo the next morning.

[Surfie]

So presumably Durkon will rescue V and bring the new "Small Size, Two Weapon wielder" back... We know Belkar's days are numbed... are they now in single digits ?

Typo? Or epic response? I can't tell. Either way, when the days are up, Belkar will DEFINITELY be numb.

Also, one thing I neglected to say with my last post; I don't get why Belkar is with Durkon, if not in a body guard or tracking capacity....

Finally, minor art issue with the final panel; Belkars tongue is not coloured in.

[oppyu]

Apparently yes. I know it's for comedic reasons, but I find it somehow disappointing for his "growth"...

He didn't abandon the stupid and childish personality when he grew, and he's still more grounded and mature than he was when OOTS began. He's still exhibiting character growth; notice how he's engaging with the plot and giving valid concerns. Early-Elan would be dancing around naked and doing other insane things.

[SmaugTheYounger]

Mayonnaise, garlic, onion etc still missing. This might take a while.

[Onyavar]

1) Hey! The party just traveled from one place to another without having a random encounter! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0145.html) And this was an opportunity to fight flying enemies. I was looking forward to Hawkmen from the Flash Gordon movie.

Without having a (yet published) random encounter.
Though, I guess we will never know the encounters they might have had because it wouldn't fit into the story. Cerebus syndrome (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0242.html), anyone?

[RMS Oceanic]

I'm a little concerned here. Whilst I applaud the fact that Roy has learned not to split the party too much due to the tactical disadvantage, it would seem that he has not fully learned the lesson.

Would not the smarter thing to do be to have the ENTIRE PARTY plane shift, rescue V, then plane shift back to the Windy Canyon?

I mean, there may be some logic to doing it this way (and I admit, my knowledge on plane shifting is vague at best), but speaking as a player - splitting up, even like this, is just ASKING for trouble.

Roy doesn't want Nale to beat them to Girard's Gate. Having to face him with only part of his team is less than optimal, but in Roy's mind it's preferable to Nale reaching the Gate unopposed. Whether or not this is the best plan is up for debate, but it's ultimately moot as we know Tarquin will make Nale wait for the Order to clear a path to the gate.

Speaking of which, I suspect that any chance Roy has of persuading the Draketooth Clan of the danger Xykon poses will be destroyed when Tarquin arrives and reveals the bugged magic carpet. Of course, I'm judging this on the Patriarch Girard. Maybe Orrin will be more reasonable...

[Mr. Snuggles]

So presumably Durkon will rescue V and bring the new "Small Size, Two Weapon wielder" back... We know Belkar's days are numbed... are they now in single digits ?

Ahh yeah...I totally forgot! The kobold Yukyuk is still with Vaarsuvius. Mr. Scruffy will tell Belkar who shot him over the telepathic link, and hilarity will ensue as Belkar gets a new hat. Or maybe this is where Belkar discovers mercy because Mr. Scruffy doesn't want Yukyuk to die?

[Red XIV]

It's always possible that some random encounter will be included as a bonus strip when the next book gets published.

[Crod]

I wouldn't want to be Yukyuk when they meet up and Mr. Scruffy points out to Belkar that this is the kobold that put a cross bow bolt in him.

[Kurald Galain]

The best part of this comic is its title :smallbiggrin:

[Crod]

Roy doesn't want Nale to beat them to Girard's Gate. Having to face him with only part of his team is less than optimal, but in Roy's mind it's preferable to Nale reaching the Gate unopposed. Whether or not this is the best plan is up for debate, but it's ultimately moot as we know Tarquin will make Nale wait for the Order to clear a path to the gate.

Speaking of which, I suspect that any chance Roy has of persuading the Draketooth Clan of the danger Xykon poses will be destroyed when Tarquin arrives and reveals the bugged magic carpet. Of course, I'm judging this on the Patriarch Girard. Maybe Orrin will be more reasonable...

Surfie has a good point. Going to the other plane together on the flying carpet would cut down search time a lot. Hiding half your team in a cave is to protect them, not to notice stuff, which seems kind of stupid in this case.

[Orzel]

Belkar tracking through smell and taste?
Too bad he doesn't eat dirt.

[Thornus67]

Also, one thing I neglected to say with my last post; I don't get why Belkar is with Durkon, if not in a body guard or tracking capacity....

They're making use of Belkar's gourmet chef skill. Instead of tracking tracking, he's "tracking" by following culinary progression to get to the final ranch dressing product.

[Sith_Happens]

Belkar tracking through smell and taste?
Too bad he doesn't eat dirt.

Not yet anyways.:smallamused:

[Castamir]

So Elan is back to being stupid and childish again? I guess we forgot about that cheap source of character-oriented humor just too fast...
Elan never stopped being stupid. What's his INT score? 1? 2?

I really fail to see how possibly Haley could consider him to be an acceptable partner.

[Kurald Galain]

Elan never stopped being stupid. What's his INT score? 1? 2?
According to Belkar, precisely.



I really fail to see how possibly Haley could consider him to be an acceptable partner.
Because he's got a really big... charisma score :smalltongue:

[Mixt]

I predict that when they get close to V the ground will start tasting like PURE EVIL.

Because V is just THAT much of a evil monster.

[RMS Oceanic]

I predict that when they get close to V the ground will start tasting like PURE EVIL.

Because V is just THAT much of a evil monster.

:smallconfused:

V has done evil things in the past and will have quite a few KiloNazis to explain later, but his current attitude would be against such things.

[Palthera]

Elan never stopped being stupid. What's his INT score? 1? 2?

I really fail to see how possibly Haley could consider him to be an acceptable partner.

The INT joke from Belkar was an exaggeration, since 3 is the requirement for sentience.

And because he's sweet and considerate? He's got an innocent charm that a woman might find appealing enough to overlook the fact he's as thick as the proverbial short planks.

[Mighty_Chicken]

I guess the bright side to having hemorrhoids stopping me from falling asleep is that I can see the OotS update right away :smallsmile:

Hemorroids are highly underestimated. Bukowski wrote about how they make you a real man more than once.

[Darkfyre99]

LOL... I love how Belkar's culinary skills are more useful than his tracking skills. Especially since he's supposed to be the team's tracker. :smallsmile:

Mr. Scruffy, however, is going to get fat at the rate he's going...

[Kish]

Apparently yes. I know it's for comedic reasons, but I find it somehow disappointing for his "growth"...
Elan's stupidity is like Belkar's evil. Even though it never actually changes, every time a few strips go by in which he doesn't scream at the audience, "Hi, I'm still stupid!" people on the forum start saying he's gotten smart.

[Jubal_Barca]

I guess the question then becomes who will arrive late to the party. And I'm guessing this might be foreshadowing the Order doing so - Team Evil and the Guild might well be slugging it out (or negotiating, or fighting Girard/Orrin, either way) by the time they get there.

[Ron Miel]

Okay, I don't follow the logic. How exactly does Belkar tasting the landscape allow him to track V?

[Killer Angel]

I don't see Elan retaining some of his childishness as backsliding on his character development. He had character development before, like confronting Nale in Azure City, and he still turned to Banjo the next morning.


He didn't abandon the stupid and childish personality when he grew, and he's still more grounded and mature than he was when OOTS began. He's still exhibiting character growth; notice how he's engaging with the plot and giving valid concerns. Early-Elan would be dancing around naked and doing other insane things.


Elan's stupidity is like Belkar's evil. Even though it never actually changes, every time a few strips go by in which he doesn't scream at the audience, "Hi, I'm still stupid!" people on the forum start saying he's gotten smart.


Y'all are right. Mine wasn't a critique to the comic, but more a complain about me and my view of Elan's development.

Edit: the fact that I would like to see him abandoning his stupid behaviours, doesn't mean that they're not in character or that he's not growing up as a whole.

[Palthera]

Okay, I don't follow the logic. How exactly does Belkar tasting the landscape allow him to track V?

He's following the tastes that get closer and closer to ranch dressing. Whatever that is.

[NinjaStylerobot]

Elan always believed in Banjo. He just is worried about logical stuff as well now.

Also I guess Haley is attracted to the pure and kind type I guess.

[Ron Miel]

He's following the tastes that get closer and closer to ranch dressing. Whatever that is.

But it's the plane of Ranch dressing. Surely there's ranch dressing everywhere?

[toughluck]

Surfie has a good point. Going to the other plane together on the flying carpet would cut down search time a lot. Hiding half your team in a cave is to protect them, not to notice stuff, which seems kind of stupid in this case.
Nobody in the OotS is known for creating productive plans. Except Durkon, maybe, but he's too humble to bring them up often enough.

Plane traveling light also makes for some drama -- we know Belkar's days are numbered, the fact that a year (or nearly a year) has passed since his death was predicted was brought up several times in the past few story arcs. He's going to die, and he's going to be replaced as there's no time to lose.

And Belkar will recognize the bolts immediately, provoking an attack.

[Diadem]

Isn't Plane Shift a level 7 spell? So Durkon is level 15 now?

[NinjaStylerobot]

Isn't Plane Shift a level 7 spell? So Durkon is level 15 now?

Yep. He also knows holy word.

[Palthera]

But it's the plane of Ranch dressing. Surely there's ranch dressing everywhere?

Could be different tastes and consistencies along the plane? That was my guess anyway, but since I have no idea what ranch dressing is I was making an assumption on what was shown...

[Yendor]

Isn't Plane Shift a level 7 spell? So Durkon is level 15 now?

He only needs to be 13th level to cast level 7 spells. And it's level 5 for clerics.

[factotum]

But it's the plane of Ranch dressing. Surely there's ranch dressing everywhere?

The Giant seems to be following the cosmology of the Great Wheel (e.g. Planescape), where planes kind of "blend into" each other at the borders (so you get the Paraelemental Plane of Steam where the planes of Fire and Water meet)--presumably the Plane of Ranch Dressing blends into different types of dressing at the edges? So you know how close you are to it when you get all the right flavours for ranch dressing.

[Kish]

He only needs to be 13th level to cast level 7 spells. And it's level 5 for clerics.
I would, however, be quite surprised if he's not level 15, the same level as Vaarsuvius (demonstrated by Vaarsuvius casting Power Word: Stun).

(However, I would be remiss if I did not mention, before someone tries to use Mass Death Ward as evidence, that Rich posted that he actually didn't realize there was an official Mass Death Ward and was eyeballing Durkon/Malack's new invented spell at level 7.)

[RMS Oceanic]

But it's the plane of Ranch dressing. Surely there's ranch dressing everywhere?

Maybe Vaarsuvius told them what the dressing tasted like in the general area.

[Diadem]

He only needs to be 13th level to cast level 7 spells. And it's level 5 for clerics.
Wow, it's clearly been too long since I last played D&D...

[Yendor]

Maybe Vaarsuvius told them what the dressing tasted like in the general area.

Or got help from the friendly ranch-dressing elemental.

[Ron Miel]

Nobody in the OotS is known for creating productive plans.

What about Elan? His plan to escape the Dwarf Assassin worked, as did his plan to escape prison, and his plan to get back to Azure city.

[Ron Miel]

Maybe Vaarsuvius told them what the dressing tasted like in the general area.

How does he know? Do elves have the same sense of taste that halflings do?

[KoboldRevenge]

@^ I'd make a guess it was a generic ranch dressing,

Good comic! Was wondering for the first few panels why Roy was waving his sword around.

[Gift Jeraff]

Wait, what are the guys from the Kickstarter graphs doing in the main comic? :smallconfused:

[jaybird]

GUYS.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0802.html

SEMI-elemental plane. Where two planes join up. Like Mud, or Magma, or Lightning, or Steam.

Hope that clarifies everything.

[fergo]

Also, one thing I neglected to say with my last post; I don't get why Belkar is with Durkon, if not in a body guard or tracking capacity....

The joke is that he's an expert chef (origionally mentioned in the Dragon comics, but it was referenced at some point after the battle for Azure City, if I recall correctly, and once or twice since then). He's using this to find the area where V. is (I presume the semi-plane differs in ingredients and taste from place to place).


Finally, minor art issue with the final panel; Belkars tongue is not coloured in.

I think he just has ranch-dressing on his tongue :smalltongue:.

[Cynric]

Hey! Back to the Order! It's nice to see characters who aren't intent on backstabbing each other (with the exception of Belkar of course).

A few predictions...

1) They won't have to worry about the Linear Guild for a while, considering Tarquin's strategy on strip 822.

2) I think the Linear Guild are inadvertently going to play a large part in making Girard trust the Order.

3) Despite Belkar's "character development" and Vaarsuvius' offer, I can't see Yukyuk having much of a life expectancy

[fergo]

3) Despite Belkar's "character development" and Vaarsuvius' offer, I can't see Yukyuk having much of a life expectancy

I agree. I forsee Belkar appearing again with a new orange item of clothing :smallbiggrin:.

[Stabbey]

I'm kinda hoping to see a couple strips of Durkon and Belkar on a zany adventure together. Anyone else?

[Landis963]

Wait, what are the guys from the Kickstarter graphs doing in the main comic? :smallconfused:

:smallconfused: Not sure if serious...

Those are the main protagonists of the comic, the titular Order of the Stick. We've been following their main antagonists for a few comics now, known colloquially as Team Evil (I don't think they have a name in-comic). There's also a team of side-villains known as the Linear Guild, who were recently re-formed before the scene change to Team Evil. They're not important right now, aside from a brief mention as the reason Roy wants the OotS back together before they make their move.

[pendell]

*Snort* *Giggle*. Ah, Belkar, I'd almost forgotten about your cooking skills. You're able to massacre monsters and serve them up au jus. Or make salsa out of them.

Now I know what is afterlife destination will be. It won't be hades, and it won't be the nine hells. I suspect it will be his own demiplane called .. Hell's Kitchen.

ETA: Wait, so why *wouldn't* Roy want Tarquin to have first crack at the dungeon with its monsters and traps and fighting Xykon? Why not follow behind the bad guys and follow the Belloq strategy themselves, instead of doing all the work for someone else to profit from?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

[Lorin]

:smallconfused: Not sure if serious...

Those are the main protagonists of the comic, the titular Order of the Stick. We've been following their main antagonists for a few comics now, known colloquially as Team Evil (I don't think they have a name in-comic). There's also a team of side-villains known as the Linear Guild, who were recently re-formed before the scene change to Team Evil. They're not important right now, aside from a brief mention as the reason Roy wants the OotS back together before they make their move.

Check his registration date. He is with us from 2009, of course he is not, unless he have some sort of amnesia.

[fergo]

ETA: Wait, so why *wouldn't* Roy want Tarquin to have first crack at the dungeon with its monsters and traps and fighting Xykon? Why not follow behind the bad guys and follow the Belloq strategy themselves, instead of doing all the work for someone else to profit from?


I'm guessing the thought never crossed his mind :smallbiggrin:. The only reason Tarquin thought of it was his super genre-saviness.

[jidasfire]

I predict that when they get close to V the ground will start tasting like PURE EVIL.

Because V is just THAT much of a evil monster.

Dude, don't be THAT GUY. You know, the one who has to change the subject to something they can't let go regardless of how utterly irrelevant it is just to try starting a debate in which you can feel morally superior to everyone else.

On the subject of the actual strip, I'm glad we're back to a bit of levity with the Order, and that things in the Windy Canyon are moving along.

[Ishmayl]

I'm about ready to see the OotS fight as one competent team again. I know there's more drama and suspense in keeping them all separated (and thus, weakened), but let's see them fight Nale & the General at full strength!

[t209]

Is V out of the plane? Belkar is outside of the Ranch Dressing Plane.

[rbetieh]

Never have I been so happy to have the panel i am reading at the bottom of the screen. Too bad for Roy that he is still at a tactical disadvantage though. Oh and Wild Prediction Activated::: V will have gained immense amounts of weight from overindulging in Ranch :smallbiggrin:

[Prowl]

Uh oh... chives are toxic to cats. Hopefully Durkon has Neutralize Poison memorized today!

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

[Palthera]

Uh oh... chives are toxic to cats. Hopefully Durkon has Neutralize Poison memorized today!

Only in large quantities. Technically milk isn't good for them either because of the lactose, but I doubt a small lick now will hurt him that much. :)

[Chess Tyrant]

*Snort* *Giggle*. Ah, Belkar, I'd almost forgotten about your cooking skills. You're able to massacre monsters and serve them up au jus. Or make salsa out of them.

Now I know what is afterlife destination will be. It won't be hades, and it won't be the nine hells. I suspect it will be his own demiplane called .. Hell's Kitchen.

Remember Beezlebuddy's, from SoD? All the ingredients used in the cooking there are summoned from the Spice Rack of the Damned in the Abyss. It stands to reason there'll be a full Chaotic Evil kitchen in there!

[Sith_Happens]

What about Elan? His plan to escape the Dwarf Assassin worked, as did his plan to escape prison, and his plan to get back to Azure city.

:smalleek:

...You're right. Elan has secretly been the most competent member of the Order THE WHOLE TIME.

:elan: DUN DUN DUN!

[Kareasint]

Remember Beezlebuddy's, from SoD? All the ingredients used in the cooking there are summoned from the Spice Rack of the Damned in the Abyss. It stands to reason there'll be a full Chaotic Evil kitchen in there!

They already have a hat waiting for Belkar.

[Civil War Man]

Regarding Elan being childish:


Critics who treat adult as a term of approval, instead of as a merely descriptive term, cannot be adult themselves. To be concerned about being grown up, to admire the grown up because it is grown up, to blush at the suspicion of being childish; these things are the marks of childhood and adolescence. And in childhood and adolescence they are, in moderation, healthy symptoms. Young things ought to want to grow. But to carry on into middle life or even into early manhood this concern about being adult is a mark of really arrested development. When I was ten, I read fairy tales in secret and would have been ashamed if I had been found doing so. Now that I am fifty I read them openly. When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up.

C.S. Lewis, On Three Ways of Writing for Children

[JSSheridan]

How does he know? Do elves have the same sense of taste that halflings do?

I'm guessing he made a Alchemy skill Craft (Alchemy) check.

Or Yukyuk has skill ranks in Profession (gourmet chef).


Wait, what are the guys from the Kickstarter graphs doing in the main comic? :smallconfused:

For real, I thought this comic was about Redcloak and Xykon. :P

[Bulldog Psion]

Alas, poor Yukyuk, we knew thee not very well.

As for why Haley is attracted to Elan -- well, as pointed out above, he's sweet and considerate to her, he's probably the "purest of heart" of the Order, he's generally upbeat and optimistic, he played the part of the dashing hero and saved her life when Nale was about to murder her, and perhaps most of all, he believes in her, unconditionally and totally, which is probably something immense for someone whose life has been filled with nothing but deceit and cynicism until then.

Yeah, he's dumb as a box of rocks and he talks to puppets. She probably just thinks that's cute. I can't really picture the scenario of "buzz off, Elan, you don't match this IQ test result" in light of all that. Part of love is recognizing the weaknesses of your partner and placing less importance on them than the things you value in them.

Apparently, Haley values Elan's good points more than his foibles. Thus, she is able to fall in love with him. It's not really that surprising to me -- unless the poster above me thinks that people can only love other people if they're perfect, which is an impossibility. :smallconfused:

[PhantomFox]

Okay, how long has this joke been percolating in his mind ever since he introduced Belkar's cooking skills?

[Omergideon]

Ah C.S.Lewis, Even when I do not perfectly agree with you you have an excellent way with words. And in this case I do agree. In all honesty I thing there is no good reason an adult could have for being scared of looking "childish". I would cheerfully do just about anything I like, even if it looks chiildish. People who use "adult" as a compliment are the same sort who think "darker and grittier" is automatically better. It can work, it can fail.

Anywho, moving on from this, I do enjoy the good callback joke. Running gags and references to past continuity always please me. And so I quite enjoy when a simple, set up and joke strip focuses on them. Especially when contrasted to bad puns and the like. So I think this is a good strip. Not great or anything, but good. So lets talk about that.

The Good:
1) The artwork. I love the deep desert strips as they have a richness of colour and depth that really pops. Especially when you consider how simplistic the artwork generally is. Plus this depth is achieved without cluttering the panels up with needless background. Excellent background art. Plus the slow zoom in across 3 panels to the order was a cool touch. I do have a negative to say about the art later, but for now this is the good.
2) The jokes. Not a massive over abundance of jokes (this was an infodump/set up the scenario strip after all), but the ones we had were well placed, well timed and well constructed. I especially like the punchline. A good punchline can save a mostly jokeless "humour" strip. This one did not exactly need saving, but it certainly helped. It was especially good as the joke was not overexplained. It makes sense, even if you forgot Belkar had 4 ranks in Gourmet cooking, but with the callback becomes more amusing. Good work.
3) Elan and Roy interacted very wel in the strip. We can see "serious" Roy here, which makes sense considering what is going on with the LG. It seems to be getting to him, and encountering them again has reawakened Roy's edge. Elan as well showed that perfect mix of serious concern (the result of his growth as a character) and his childish naivete. This is something I can only approve of. Haley was not a big part of that, but her actions were in character and kept her involved so I cannot fault that.

The Bad:
1) This one may be something of an opinion but I cannot say I liked the art on the characters in this strip. Now the backgrounds were gorgeous, but the characters.......seemed off. The big thing is Roy waving his sword around. I can understand if it is an attempt to inject some motion into what would otherwise be a static set of strips, but it did not work. It just is distracting and has no real purpose. A minus for the blocking then (one could say).
2) The infodump natue. Now I get we need to set up the situation. That is fine. And much of it was done simply and well enough. But infodumping is never too fun to read in this way. And the 5th Panel was almost completely unnecessary. It wasted space with some nearly pointless dialogue that, frankly, added nothing to the story. Remove it and we have a better flow for the strip, and more space for character humour. But overall the infodumps seemed uninspired and less fun.

So this was not a bad strip overall, but it had a couple of noticable issues. Not unexpected ones, and minor once the full sequence is up. But when read in isolation it is a slow strip. Thankfully it is carried by the strength of the jokes, and the Roy/Elan interactions, showing some nice sides to the characters once more. Hard to grade, but I would call it a ** strip. No massive errors to force the score down, and certainly allright to read. But nothing special.

[LudiDrizzt]

:smallconfused: Not sure if serious...

Those are the main protagonists of the comic, the titular Order of the Stick. We've been following their main antagonists for a few comics now, known colloquially as Team Evil (I don't think they have a name in-comic). There's also a team of side-villains known as the Linear Guild, who were recently re-formed before the scene change to Team Evil. They're not important right now, aside from a brief mention as the reason Roy wants the OotS back together before they make their move.

You just plain get subtlety, don't you?

[blazingshadow]

so i am guessing that Roy will see his father tonight warning him about Xykon being on the move

[silvadel]

Did they miss the "Cats not allowed" sign on the plane of ranch dressing? Eating the plane has to be a discouraged thing.

Oh and in D&D a lot of times the easiest way to have the encounters find YOU is to stop looking for them. Roy's statement was about the most effective summons you could have for the linear guild or maybe even Team Evil.

[Zarzar]

I for one, would have thought an acceptable line of logic would have made it easy for Durkon to Plane Shift directly to the Semi-Elemental Plane of Ranch Dressing:

As a worshipper of Thor, the Lawful Good god of Nordic Drunken Debauchery (and apparently lightning sometimes), there would have been wings to go with his beer. Blue Cheese would go easily with those wings, therefore planes surrounding it (Ranch Dressing, Buttermilk and Chive) wouldn't be that hard to find.

One would hope a book-only story would include a panel of Thor dipping some kind of cosmic broccoli through all of the Planes of Dippable Sauce, possibly narrowly missing V in the process. Then that one ranch elemental would end up being all giddy at having a use.

[Smolder]

I disagree with the people who say this comic shows Elan's return to stupidity. It doesn't. Aside from talking to Banjo, he doesn't say anything that is terribly dumb.

So Elan isn't necessarily stupid, he's just crazy--talking to inanimate objects crazy. But the orcs who worshiped his puppets? They were stupid.

[Vreejack]

Chives are poisonous to cats. Now if only a certain busy-body were here to warn Belkar of this...

Chives (like onions) contain allyl propyl disulfide, which is extremely damaging to the hemoglobin of dogs and cats and their ilk. Red blood cells will rupture, causing anemia and possibly liver damage. Primates are apparently better-adapted to them.

If your cat eats onion, take it to the vet right away.

[Cynric]

You know, at first I was confused, but now I am genuinly impressed by the collective knowledge concerning chives that the frequenters of this forum possess.

Kudos.

[Vreejack]

I disagree with the people who say this comic shows Elan's return to stupidity. It doesn't. Aside from talking to Banjo, he doesn't say anything that is terribly dumb.

So Elan isn't necessarily stupid, he's just crazy--talking to inanimate objects crazy. But the orcs who worshiped his puppets? They were stupid.

In our world there are thousands of religious sects that are more or less incompatible and logically mutually exclusive to the point that each of them thinks all the others are effectively worshiping hand puppets. Since only a very small number of them (one? none?) cannot be worshiping a hand puppet, I find fault with your thesis that the orcs are stupid. Worshiping a hand puppet is apparently a necessary human norm.

Actually, Rich Burlew put it rather well when he had the orc say (something like) "Hard to tell right from wrong without hand puppet to tell us."

[Fish]

I guess Belkar wasn't long for this world after all.

What? Someone had to say it.

[Rules Lawyer #1]

I am liking the Windy Canyon terrain.
Awesome detail in the final panel: all the way down to the ranch dressing on Belkar's tongue (!) and the study of white on white that Mr. Scruffy makes :smallsmile:

Hmmm… you make a good point Surfie. Why wouldn't Roy Plane Shift the entire party? Splitting them up seems like the exact opposite of what he just got done saying that he didn't want to do.
Haley wonders why Roy bothered to send anyone at all with Durkon.
It would seem that the OotS have learned nothing about about splitting the party.
I mean from all appearances Roy, Haley, and Elan are just sitting there waiting.

From Roy's comment about all night and all day, I deduce that Roy, Haley, and Elan are all resting (getting a full eight hours rest) while a minimal team makes the trek through the plane of ranch. If everyone had gone then half the party would've have played no role in the hunt for V in addition to not getting rest.

Moreover, sending the flying carpet is futile because Belkar would not be able to make effective use of his culinary skills from the air.

Roy is keeping watch because the party is resting. If all goes well, Durkon will be back by the morning, but that's okay because Durkon doesn't need to rest in order to get his cleric spells back! If it takes longer, Roy will still wait because he won't proceed without the casters.

The exposition as given in the comic is precisely that which I'm guessing the Giant felt the reader would need (the reader being smart enough to deduce the rest?<pun alert>) and also so that he can set the punchline up about Belkar. If the conversation seems typical OotS that is probably because they are just waiting for Durkon to return.

All that being said, it is clear that Roy is making the same mistake about splitting the party that he has made in the past. Should something happen, the OotS could end up in a bind all over again. This is a calculated risk.

[Civil War Man]

Chives are poisonous to cats. Now if only a certain busy-body were here to warn Belkar of this...

Chives (like onions) contain allyl propyl disulfide, which is extremely damaging to the hemoglobin of dogs and cats and their ilk. Red blood cells will rupture, causing anemia and possibly liver damage. Primates are apparently better-adapted to them.

If your cat eats onion, take it to the vet right away.

Fortunately the divine power channeled by clerics doesn't discriminate based on species, so Durkon can heal up Scruffy if he starts acting like he's got the lurgy.

[Vreejack]

lolwut?

That's what I was thinking. Did you know C.S. Lewis shaved his cat to look like a lion with a mane and tail-puff and tattooed a SS symbol on each side of its body? And that he force-fed it chives to make it stronger?

Lewis Carrol once swallowed a dormouse whole to impress a young girl. The rodent slept through the entire episode.

Come on people, at least make up stuff that tries to be amusing.

[jmucchiello]

The real question is why do both Durkin and the Drzzt clone have little tuning forks that allow plane shift to land you in these semi-elemental planes of condiments.

[rbetieh]

Oh one more thing that I just noticed....where's Blackwing?

[Cynric]

Oh one more thing that I just noticed....where's Blackwing?

Why, he's obviously been on Vaarsuvius' shoulder all along.:smallbiggrin:

[t209]

so i am guessing that Roy will see his father tonight warning him about Xykon being on the move

and Haley's reaction to her resistance's downfall. I think it would be a tearjerker and find vengeance for azurties (people and resistance) and people taken by the life of that monster.

[Blackeagle]

1) Hey! The party just traveled from one place to another without having a random encounter! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0145.html) And this was an opportunity to fight flying enemies. I was looking forward to Hawkmen from the Flash Gordon movie.

Bonus strip for the print edition, maybe?

[Anarion]

Why, he's obviously been on Vaarsuvius' shoulder all along.:smallbiggrin:

No, he's clearly visible flying with the party in comic 818 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0818.html). He's probably just inside the cave or perhaps even scouting around at the moment.

Regarding planeshifting the whole party, perhaps Roy is worried that if they all planeshift, they will get back in the wrong location and have to spend extra time figuring out where they are and which way to travel. With most of the crew in place close to where they need to be, Durkon can shift back and he, V, Belkar and YukYuk can go as fast as their magic enables to rejoin the party at its original location, rather than everyone ending up 50 miles off in a random direction.

I like the setting of Windy Canyon. I'm also curious what kind of rocks those might be with the striated pattern like that? Any geologists in the thread?

[Porthos]

To the people complaining about Elan's "childishness", I would simply remind them that this is how he reacts to a stressful situation. Especially one where there isn't anything for him to do or be heoric about. If he can't do anything productive, he worries. He just worries in a childlike way.

So, this is perfectly in line with his recent character development.

Besides, the day Elan puts away Banjo for good, is a dark DARK DARK day in this comic. :smallmad:

[CoffeeIncluded]

I like the setting of Windy Canyon. I'm also curious what kind of rocks those might be with the striated pattern like that? Any geologists in the thread?

Those rocks are almost certainly sandstone, and potentially hundreds of millions of years old. Sandstone deposits like these are quite common in desert areas such as the southwestern and western United States, and they're beautiful.

[Catbeller Mouse]

Chives are poisonous to cats. Now if only a certain busy-body were here to warn Belkar of this...

Chives (like onions) contain allyl propyl disulfide, which is extremely damaging to the hemoglobin of dogs and cats and their ilk. Red blood cells will rupture, causing anemia and possibly liver damage. Primates are apparently better-adapted to them.

If your cat eats onion, take it to the vet right away.

There is a difference between being toxic and deadly, as people have come to define the terms. Apple seeds contain arsenic, which is indeed poisonous and toxic, but you eat so few apple seeds that it won't hurt you much. Eat a kilo of apple seeds and you might not feel so well. Eat a couple dozen baskets of seeds and you might die, but probably of clogging your digestive system rather than the arsenic. And the seeds evolved to make it through your digestive tract unharmed - that's how apple trees spread their progeny.

"Toxic" used to denote "deadly", but overuse of the term has caused people to conflate the absolute existence of a poison with the amount required to hurt or kill. I blame the herbal medicine movement and their mangling of chemistry and biology.

A cat will indeed become anemic (from what I've just read) from *large* amounts of chives. A small amount, as from a dish, might well make them ill because it affects their ability to metabolize oxygen, as you say. But if you leave them alone, it wears off. Remove the chives from the cat's path, but don't panic unless he's pouring them directly from a bottle into his mouth, so to speak.

Lactose is bad, but cats love milk sometimes - but it won't hurt them unless you let them drink it all the time.

Also poisonous (to cats) is marijuana, and a lot of people think it funny to let cats ingest or inhale that. Dogs as well react to MJ as a poison. Alcohol is a major poison to humans AND cats, yet people feed their cats booze as a joke. All a matter of scale and what people don't normally think about.

Now back to your regularly scheduled forum...

[Burner28]

Besides, the day Elan puts away Banjo for good, is a dark DARK DARK day in this comic. :smallmad:

Oh no!:smalleek::smalltongue:

[JSSheridan]

Oh one more thing that I just noticed....where's Blackwing?

Can't a wizard and her familiar tell which direction the other is located through their link?

I would use Belkar to track down V on the elemental plane, and have Blackwing stay w/ Roy and company. When Durkon Plane Shifts them back, V can tell them which way and maybe how far it is back to the party.

[Boogastreehouse]

I disagree with the people who say this comic shows Elan's return to stupidity. It doesn't. Aside from talking to Banjo, he doesn't say anything that is terribly dumb.

So Elan isn't necessarily stupid, he's just crazy--talking to inanimate objects crazy. But the orcs who worshiped his puppets? They were stupid.


Elan is a dreamer.

The willingness to believe in the absurd is where storytelling comes from.

[Bulldog Psion]

I like the setting of Windy Canyon. I'm also curious what kind of rocks those might be with the striated pattern like that? Any geologists in the thread?

Looks like some kind of sedimentary rock. The rippling effect rather than flat layers would indicate that it had been deformed at some point by light seismic activity -- it's not heavily folded, though, so the pressures weren't extreme.

Since it's a dry climate and they're reddish, I'd say that the rocks are sandstone and siltstone, and the reddish color is caused by iron in the rock oxidizing. Very characteristic of desert rock formations. Mr. Burlew is either geologically knowledgeable, or is a keen observer and noticed how prevalent rock formations like this are in dry areas (including the American southwest). :smallsmile:

[hawkofthenorth]

Buttermilk is low in lactose! It's actually one of the best sorts of milk for cats to actually drink, should they drink any milk. Chives can be dangerous for cats, but due to the fact that they're obviously working as reeds here and not floating through the buttermilk, if they even release any of their potential cat-poison through flowing buttermilk, it will be trace amounts and largely inconsequential, at worst giving him the upset stomach he could have gained through high-lactose milk.

My first post in two years is to talk about a cat's digestive system. Welp, see you in another two, folks!

[Erlik]

Nice Comic!

And nice star trek / Scotty reference :)

I watched that movie so many times :D


"The notion of transwarp beaming is like trying to hit a bullet with a smaller bullet, whilst wearing a blindfold, riding a horse."

[MaximKat]

That's what I was thinking. Did you know C.S. Lewis shaved his cat to look like a lion with a mane and tail-puff and tattooed a SS symbol on each side of its body? And that he force-fed it chives to make it stronger?

Lewis Carrol once swallowed a dormouse whole to impress a young girl. The rodent slept through the entire episode.

Come on people, at least make up stuff that tries to be amusing.

Who subscribed this thread to Daily Cat Facts (http://i.imgur.com/rsQ93.png)?

[t209]

Nice Comic!

And nice star trek / Scotty reference :)

I watched that movie so many times :D
Where is it? I only saw Belkar tasting Ranch Dressing to find V.

[rewinn]

Can't a wizard and her familiar tell which direction the other is located through their link?

I would use Belkar to track down V on the elemental plane, and have Blackwing stay w/ Roy and company. When Durkon Plane Shifts them back, V can tell them which way and maybe how far it is back to the party.

This raises the question: why not send Blackwing with Durkon?

The obvious explanation might be that Roy still thinks BW is just a bird, not a familiar. BW should have tried to disabuse him of this notion but, then again, may have decided that Roy's plan is good enough as is.

Or perhaps BW just that it would be fun to have LG Durkon and CE Belkar have some alone time together. How could they possibly disagree on the best way to handle an encounter?

[rewinn]

Can't a wizard and her familiar tell which direction the other is located through their link?

I would use Belkar to track down V on the elemental plane, and have Blackwing stay w/ Roy and company. When Durkon Plane Shifts them back, V can tell them which way and maybe how far it is back to the party.

This raises the question: why not send Blackwing with Durkon?

The obvious explanation might be that Roy still thinks BW is just a bird, not a familiar. BW should have tried to disabuse him of this notion but, then again, may have decided that Roy's plan is good enough as is.

Or perhaps BW just thought that it would be fun for LG Durkon and CE Belkar have some alone time together, two good buddies off on an adventure. How could they possibly disagree on the best way to handle an encounter?

[Crisis21]

*Unrolls scroll*

Hear ye, hear ye! This is to signify that comic artist Rich Burlew has advanced to the rank of 10th Dan in the noble art of Pun-Fu. May he comport himself with skill and humor throughout all his days.

[NeoSeraphi]

Not to mention his honorary doctorate in hilarious double entendres (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0418.html). :smallbiggrin:

Rich Burlew is a creative genius and we must indeed all worship his brilliance.

[Subzero008]

Hmmm... tastes like instant mix... too much paprika.

[Forikroder]

Chives are poisonous to cats. Now if only a certain busy-body were here to warn Belkar of this...

Chives (like onions) contain allyl propyl disulfide, which is extremely damaging to the hemoglobin of dogs and cats and their ilk. Red blood cells will rupture, causing anemia and possibly liver damage. Primates are apparently better-adapted to them.

If your cat eats onion, take it to the vet right away.

im sure the benefits from being an animal companion will give teh scruffinator a high enough fort save to shrug it off

[Glich]

Y'know, Banjo seems pretty nervous for a deity.

More sensible comment to be posted after I get some sleep.

Ah banjo.. I have a vision that Team evil will get control of the snarl and send it to the goblin god. Then the order will have to plane shift and fight it directly. Thor will not be able to help but Banjo will show up at the last second and save the day.

[ThePhantasm]

Not that Rich isn't great with puns, but what is this thread about exactly?

[Holy_Knight]

Alas, poor Yukyuk, we knew thee not very well.

As for why Haley is attracted to Elan -- well, as pointed out above, he's sweet and considerate to her, he's probably the "purest of heart" of the Order, he's generally upbeat and optimistic, he played the part of the dashing hero and saved her life when Nale was about to murder her, and perhaps most of all, he believes in her, unconditionally and totally, which is probably something immense for someone whose life has been filled with nothing but deceit and cynicism until then.

Yeah, he's dumb as a box of rocks and he talks to puppets. She probably just thinks that's cute. I can't really picture the scenario of "buzz off, Elan, you don't match this IQ test result" in light of all that. Part of love is recognizing the weaknesses of your partner and placing less importance on them than the things you value in them.

Apparently, Haley values Elan's good points more than his foibles. Thus, she is able to fall in love with him. It's not really that surprising to me -- unless the poster above me thinks that people can only love other people if they're perfect, which is an impossibility. :smallconfused:
Really well said.

[dsavereide]

Looks like all three teams will be arriving at about the same time. Girad will have his hands full.

[Marnath]

If that's a river of buttermilk, does that mean the "shore" they're standing on is curdled buttermilk? Nasty.

[Anarion]

Looks like some kind of sedimentary rock. The rippling effect rather than flat layers would indicate that it had been deformed at some point by light seismic activity -- it's not heavily folded, though, so the pressures weren't extreme.

Since it's a dry climate and they're reddish, I'd say that the rocks are sandstone and siltstone, and the reddish color is caused by iron in the rock oxidizing. Very characteristic of desert rock formations. Mr. Burlew is either geologically knowledgeable, or is a keen observer and noticed how prevalent rock formations like this are in dry areas (including the American southwest). :smallsmile:

That's pretty neat. I wonder if Rich thought about it that much, but it makes the comic a bit cooler knowing that the rocks are accurate for a desert setting.


If that's a river of buttermilk, does that mean the "shore" they're standing on is curdled buttermilk? Nasty.

Nah, it's probably some kind of cheese (which I guess could be curdled buttermilk in some form or other). Blue cheese perhaps, if we're sticking with the salad theme?

[LordRahl6]

Ohh, the hilarity! I have to wonder if Rich is hinting at something about the return of Banjo.:smallwink: Also LOVE the reason why Belkar went with Durkon.:smallbiggrin:

[SpaceBadger]

This comic made me hungry, so I had ranch dressing on my sandwich for lunch. :smalltongue:

[Bulldog Psion]

Really well said.

Thank you, kind sir! :smallsmile:

[Omergideon]

Where is it? I only saw Belkar tasting Ranch Dressing to find V.

I am assuming it is contained in Roy's reference to his Father's description of plane shifting. Probably.

[Omergideon]

For me, the mastery of Puns is like the mastery of self harm. Yes I made the comparison, and yes I despise Puns that much. The worst sort of humour ever (excepting that based on the pain of others).


I would award him the OCE....Order of Comic Empires.

[JSSheridan]

Not that Rich isn't great with puns, but what is this thread about exactly?

So...I believe there was a promise of pudding.

[Crisis21]

Not that Rich isn't great with puns, but what is this thread about exactly?

This is about the long-term self-contained stealth pun that is the title of strip #834 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0834.html).

To get the gag, you need to know that Belkar is a ranger (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0001.html) who can't track (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0213.html), but has ranks in gourmet chef (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0475.html), and has been sent to track someone on the semi-elemental plane of ranch dressing (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0802.html).

Whether this set-up was deliberate or spur-of-the-moment, Rich's genius in pulling it off must be recognized.

[Erlik]

I am assuming it is contained in Roy's reference to his Father's description of plane shifting. Probably.


Well, maybe it is nothing, but Roy said:

May dad always said that targeting a Plane Shift spell was like trying to puncture a balloon tied to the back of an epilectic hamster by trowing glitter at it.


The notion of transwarp beaming is like trying to hit a bullet with a smaller bullet, whilst wearing a blindfold, riding a horse.

It's not the same but it is pretty close, isn't it?


P.S.

are you sure Blackwing is not in the Demiplane with Durkon and Belkar? Maybe he's there, just off panel (we do not see it with Roy either).

[t209]

He's also Lord of Wham (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0825.html) then Relieve (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0834.html)

[Castamir]

Only in large quantities. Technically milk isn't good for them either because of the lactose, but I doubt a small lick now will hurt him that much. :)
Milk??? It's one of most blaring nonsenses. The most typical natural cat food... "not good for them". You've been listening to peddlers of processed cat food for too long.

As for chives... cats do like to eat plants (not for nutrition, for intestinal ballast). I got lots of chives in my garden, the kitteh doesn't shy from them and he never had any negative symptoms. I guess if you fed one a bulk amount, rather than what you find in a food dressing, it could indeed be toxic. One of primary toxicology maxims is that the dose makes the poison (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_dose_makes_the_poison): most foodstuff is neutral or beneficial in moderation, and pretty much anything is harmful in too large an amount. Even water (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication).

There are plants that are toxic to cats in a dose of a small nibble, but they're not human food either, so we can assume the Plane of Ranch Dressing is safe for the Scruffinator.

[phantomreader42]

This raises the question: why not send Blackwing with Durkon?

The obvious explanation might be that Roy still thinks BW is just a bird, not a familiar. BW should have tried to disabuse him of this notion but, then again, may have decided that Roy's plan is good enough as is.

Or perhaps BW just that it would be fun to have LG Durkon and CE Belkar have some alone time together. How could they possibly disagree on the best way to handle an encounter?

Hmmm, what could possibly go wrong in sending a small, winged creature to a plane composed of buffalo-wing dip in the company of a Chaotic Evil chef and his pet feline?

[t209]

Next we get to see Belkar beating down on Ranch Elemental or Yuk Yuk (or V's Kobold gun thing) OR BOTH (Nothing better than Kobold Salad with Ranch Dressing)!
Or Azurites shock over the fall of resistance (and possibly naming the elf island from Nicaea to Trebizond)
or Tarquin's crew.

[HandofShadows]

Roy is certainly using the tools he has avaliable to him. And doing quite well at it. :)

[Cizak]

All hail Rich Burlew, the master of burning himself out (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/599092525/the-order-of-the-stick-reprint-drive/posts) (last update, below chart).

[t209]

All hail Rich Burlew, the master of burning himself out (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/599092525/the-order-of-the-stick-reprint-drive/posts) (last update, below chart).

Thus begins, the weekfull of update!

[King of Nowhere]

If he manages to churn out one comic per day without lowering the quality, he would also get the award of master of time compression. really, he generally manages two or three per week, now he's got much more job to do to follow the kickstarter stuff, and he's also going to find the time to work extra on the comic?
So either he'll get the time compression award, or he'll ge he sleepless award, or he will be found dead for overdose of caffeine.

[AMJ]

Thank you, kind sir! :smallsmile:

It was really nicely stated Bulldog Psion. I think I just might copy your 'love text' for future use. My daughters may at some point need to be taught the fundamentals of love - starting from just these principles :smallsmile:

[ThePhantasm]

This is about the long-term self-contained stealth pun that is the title of strip #834 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0834.html). . .

Whether this set-up was deliberate or spur-of-the-moment, Rich's genius in pulling it off must be recognized.

So this really belongs in the official strip thread, right? :smallwink:

[Landis963]

Next we get to see Belkar beating down on Ranch Elemental or Yuk Yuk (or V's Kobold gun thing) OR BOTH (Nothing better than Kobold Salad with Ranch Dressing)!
Or Azurites shock over the fall of resistance (and possibly naming the elf island from Nicaea to Trebizond)
or Tarquin's crew.

Emphasis mine. :smallconfused: Where did you get those names from?

[Ulysses WkAmil]

This made me remember when he identified that trap (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0098.html) back in the Dungeon of Dorukon.

[Turgon9357]

Can't a wizard and her familiar tell which direction the other is located through their link?

I would use Belkar to track down V on the elemental plane, and have Blackwing stay w/ Roy and company. When Durkon Plane Shifts them back, V can tell them which way and maybe how far it is back to the party.

If wizards and familiars have that link, it would certainly make the most sense to keep Blackwing with Roy and co. While Blackwing could help them zero in on V's location faster, Belkar would be totally useless in trying to rejoin with the noncasters once everyone is back on the material plane.

Sending Belkar and keeping Blackwing makes the best use of all available resources.

[Ron Miel]

Those rocks are almost certainly sandstone, and potentially hundreds of millions of years old. Sandstone deposits like these are quite common in desert areas such as the southwestern and western United States, and they're beautiful.

Which is amazing in a world created less than a thousand years ago.

[Morgan Wick]

Looks like all three teams will be arriving at about the same time. Girad will have his hands full.

It would be hilarious if the NuLG got to their position the same time as Durkon/V/Belkar and had to help them to get to the gate.

[Willis888]

Also, one thing I neglected to say with my last post; I don't get why Belkar is with Durkon, if not in a body guard or tracking capacity....

He can identify substances by taste (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0098.html). It's useful when you are trying to make your way from the Semiplane of Buttermilk to the Semiplane of Ranch Dressing. Belkar can taste if they are going in the right direction.



Finally, minor art issue with the final panel; Belkars tongue is not coloured in.

If you zoom in farther you can see that it is. Use Ctrl+MouseWheelUp. The tip of his tongue is covered in white buttermilk, but the back of it is the usual tongue-pink color. Without zooming in, it does kind of look like a single flesh-colored pixel.

[Bulldog Psion]

It was really nicely stated Bulldog Psion. I think I just might copy your 'love text' for future use. My daughters may at some point need to be taught the fundamentals of love - starting from just these principles :smallsmile:

Thank you, thank you -- please feel free to copy and use that however you want. :smallsmile: It's quite a humbling experience to have someone quote you on such on an important matter -- you honor me, sir! And if the "love text" will be useful to you, then all I can say is, that's "super cool"! :smallcool:

(If only there was a smiley/emoticon for a sweeping 17th-century bow!)

[Starwulf]

Milk??? It's one of most blaring nonsenses. The most typical natural cat food... "not good for them". You've been listening to peddlers of processed cat food for too long.



If you are trying to say that Milk IS good for cats, I will definitely have to disagree with you. I've had multiple cats as pets all throughout my life, as far back as age 5, both inside and outside cats, and when I was younger, we gave our cats Milk all the time(inside and outside) and those cats ALWAYS had very liquidy poop(in other words, diarrhea). At one point, our vet told my parents that we should stop giving them milk and give them water, and we have done that EVER since, and the # of times my cats have had liquidy poop I can probably count on both hands, and all of those times were because the cat was just flat out sick.

It may just be anecdotal evidence, but it's pretty damn convincing evidence to me. Dry cat food and water, and our cats are as healthy and fit as can be. Matter of fact, I, at this very moment, have one of the outside cats in my place right now, and he's been around since I was a freaking teenager(16 actually, I'm 30 now), and she is still pretty damn healthy.

[psijac]

Unexpected Twists I thought up but will never happen:

1. The IFCC uses the time on V's soul for something nefarious on the Ranch plane
2. Belkar dies on the Ranch Plane

[Kgw]

Emphasis mine. :smallconfused: Where did you get those names from?

Out of History, maybe, Nicaea and Trebizond were the last remmants of the Roman (Byzantine) Empire when Constantinople fell. None of them lasted too long.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Milk??? It's one of most blaring nonsenses. The most typical natural cat food... "not good for them". You've been listening to peddlers of processed cat food for too long.

No. Humans are the exception when it comes to digesting milk into adulthood (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactase_persistence), and even then it's far from universal. The lactase enzyme, which is what lets you digest the milk sugar lactose past infancy is generally not produced in mammalian adults. Except that several thousand years ago, several humans who lived had a mutated gene that allowed this enzyme to be produced to some extent into adulthood. This gave them a survival advantage, as they could live off the milk and other dairy products where others without the mutated gene would become sick.

[Whiffet]

*Unrolls scroll*

Hear ye, hear ye! This is to signify that comic artist Rich Burlew has advanced to the rank of 10th Dan in the noble art of Pun-Fu. May he comport himself with skill and humor throughout all his days.

Just now? What took so long?

[ti'esar]

Unexpected Twists I thought up but will never happen:

1. The IFCC uses the time on V's soul for something nefarious on the Ranch plane
2. Belkar dies on the Ranch Plane

The second one isn't totally implausible - while I don't believe it, I don't see any other way Yukyuk is coming out of this alive, and it would awfully anticlimactic to bring him back just to kill him.

Although come to think of... does Belkar actually know he's the one who shot Mr. Scruffy? It's not like there's a lot of other candidates, but "ranger bond" or not, he didn't notice when it originally happened.

[Riverdance]

The canyon scenery harks back to the desert montages of many strips ago. Brings back memories of desperately checking day after day for a new strip, and being so happy when one actually came. Hope they find V quickly.

Thanks Giant.

[Kish]

It's pretty common knowledge that nearly all cats are lactose-intolerant to greater or lesser extents.

Unfortunately, cats stereotypically drink milk for some reason, and a lot of people think that trumps the body of scientific knowledge on the subject.

Belkar, of course, isn't one of them. (Remember when he told Elan that he'd cut Elan's nipples off if Elan fed Mr. Scruffy cow's milk?)

[Crisis21]

Just now? What took so long?

He had to claw his way up the first nine Dans of course. :smallwink:

First Dan = Black Belt, btw.

[Zolem]

Y'know, Banjo seems pretty nervous for a deity.

Well of course Banjo is nervous. There is a deity killer involved! What god wouldn't be nervous?

[ti'esar]

Well of course Banjo is nervous. There is a deity killer involved! What god wouldn't be nervous?

There's actually been some speculation that Banjo might play a role in the end-game with the Snarl (including, I think, on this very thread).

[kabbor]

And now we know the reasoning behind the "Semi-elemental plane of Ranch Dressing". The food-related plane provides the reason for Belkar to be along, which will provoke a fight with Yukyuk (What, you don't think Belkar will notice the colour of his bolts?), and without the whole party present to put the lid back on things. V has already suggested the desire to open up a vacancy in the "short dual-welding murderer" department. With Rich updating every day, I don't think Belkar will live out this week. Justice for Y(.)ky\1k !

[Tobimaro]

Well, at least Roy is getting the most out of Belkar's skills. I'm just wondering how he will react when he (and Durkon) meet up with V and the dominated kobold? It's not going to be pleasant.

[phantomreader42]

Well of course Banjo is nervous. There is a deity killer involved! What god wouldn't be nervous?

Besides, Banjo is a god with only one worshiper. If Elan dies, that's it for him.

If you haven't read Terry Pratchett's "Small Gods", you should. Good reason for a god to be nervous.

[the_tick_rules]

So the joke was belkar likes condiments?

[Gift Jeraff]

So Randy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0385.html) and Qarr (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0637.html) have successfully punctured a balloon tied to the back of an epileptic hamster by throwing glitter at it? :smalltongue:

[kgato503]

So Randy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0385.html) and Qarr (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0637.html) have successfully punctured a balloon tied to the back of an epileptic hamster by throwing glitter at it? :smalltongue:

That, or else Roy's father is horrible at using Plane Shift.

[ti'esar]

Besides, Banjo is a god with only one worshiper. If Elan dies, that's it for him.

If you haven't read Terry Pratchett's "Small Gods", you should. Good reason for a god to be nervous.

Technically, he's now part of the orc pantheon, or at least the orc pantheon of grukgruk's island tribe, albeit as a hostile god. Not sure if that would make a difference or not...

(Now I'm imagine secret orc cultists of Banjo holding midnight meetings in that "Lost" tunnel).

[phantomreader42]

That, or else Roy's father is horrible at using Plane Shift.

So, the list of things Roy's father is horrible at includes:
Parenting
Following through on promises
Vengeance
Using Plane Shift

(of course, the various fiends might have been using other methods like Gate, or just have a natural aptitude for commuting to the mortal realm)

[skaddix]

So the joke was belkar likes condiments?

No the Joke is Belkar is horrible tracker but he has ranks in Gourmet Chef which makes him ideal to find V on the semi elemental plane of Ranch Dressing.

[phantomreader42]

No the Joke is Belkar is horrible tracker but he has ranks in Gourmet Chef which makes him ideal to find V on the semi elemental plane of Ranch Dressing.

And maybe also a callback to Tolkien's halflings love of fine foods. Bilbo Baggins would probably have been able to find his way around a food-based plane better than in Middle-Earth.

[Whiffet]

Well, sure. Halflings have a very delicate sense of taste. They require only the finest foods to avoid going into culinary shock. :smallwink:

[t209]

Well, sure. Halflings have a very delicate sense of taste. They require only the finest foods to avoid going into culinary shock. :smallwink:

Do you ever wonder if Giant played Warhammer or Warhammer 40,000? Belkar looks more like a Halfling from Warhammer verse (mostly 40k except the procreating part).

[Acora]

You know, I have very mixed feelings about this one. On one hand, the ending amuses me greatly, and I'm glad that the gang will be back together soon. On the other hand, it's reminded me that the Linear Guild has recently recruited two epic level characters who easily thrashed characters of the Order's level when they became engaged in combat together. That, and since Tarquin is a master strategist, none of the Order will logically be able to out maneuver him.

[ti'esar]

Tarquin and Malack aren't epic, that we know of. I'm pretty sure Malack at least isn't more then sixteenth level.

[psijac]

No. Humans are the exception when it comes to digesting milk into adulthood (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactase_persistence), and even then it's far from universal. The lactase enzyme, which is what lets you digest the milk sugar lactose past infancy is generally not produced in mammalian adults. Except that several thousand years ago, several humans who lived had a mutated gene that allowed this enzyme to be produced to some extent into adulthood. This gave them a survival advantage, as they could live off the milk and other dairy products where others without the mutated gene would become sick.

I am guessing we call these non-mutants lactose intolerant.

[VinRaven]

I am guessing we call these non-mutants lactose intolerant.

We do, but it's the people who are completely lactose tolerant who are the exception, numbering about 10-20% of the world's population.

The difference is, that like with chives and onions, small amounts of lactose don't make much of an issue, but most all people who end up with belly aches and gas after eating cheesy pizza or ice cream aren't suffering from actual food poisoning, but are simply showing natural reactions to lactose due to lack of tolerance.

[Kish]

On the other hand, it's reminded me that the Linear Guild has recently recruited two epic level characters

...not epic level...

who easily thrashed characters of the Order's level when they became engaged in combat together.

...who easily thrashed Elan, who can sort of fight, and Nale, who is a complete joke in combat, you mean...

That, and since Tarquin is a master strategist, none of the Order will logically be able to out maneuver him.
You know, if Roy outmaneuvers Tarquin, you won't actually be able to accurately say that it contradicts the prior comic. Though I know that won't stop Tarquin's fan club from saying it anyway, accuracy be damned.

[Krim]

As shocking as it may sound, the Order has a legitimate chance to pretty much one-shot the entire Linear Guild.

What? Someone spiked my orange juice? No, not really. Look, the carpet Tarquin gave to the OotS has a small locating rune. If, for whatever reason, V decides to cast Detect Magic, *he has a very good chance to find it. With that knowledge, they could place the carpet in a cave, or in a place of the Canyon with good terrain for an ambush. The Guild can track the carpet, but not the actual members of the OotS.

Now, if they can lure them into a place for a surprise attack, the Linear Guild is far, far more vulnerable than you would think. Malack likely has poor Reflex save and CON score, so dual lighting by V and Durkon could very well smoke him. Zz'Dtri has been proven to be vulnerable to arrows, and a sneak attack by Haley, plus maybe the Kobold is likely to knock him down. Sabine's main danger is grappling+Energy Drain, but, with Roy close to the casters, that is not an option (Roy deals 25 damage per swing, before buffs, and the sword CAN crit). That leaves Tarquin, Nale, and the winged kobold againts everyone.

We all know that Nale isn't the most dangerous fighter in the world, and, while I am pretty sure the kobold will somehow manage to slay Belkar, that's it. Tarquin sure is super though, and carries a Ring of Regeneration, but there is absolutely no reason to think he can do a great amount of damage per round. At that point, his best bet is probably to flee.

[Spacewolf]

We do, but it's the people who are completely lactose tolerant who are the exception, numbering about 10-20% of the world's population.

The difference is, that like with chives and onions, small amounts of lactose don't make much of an issue, but most all people who end up with belly aches and gas after eating cheesy pizza or ice cream aren't suffering from actual food poisoning, but are simply showing natural reactions to lactose due to lack of tolerance.

It often depends on there ethnic background as well, as asians have a large percentage of the population intolerant as they dont usually drink milk growing up therefore they lose the enzymes while european people drink milk as part of their daily diet so keep the enzyme

[Mr. Snuggles]

As shocking as it may sound, the Order has a legitimate chance to pretty much one-shot the entire Linear Guild.

What? Someone spiked my orange juice? No, not really. Look, the carpet Tarquin gave to the OotS has a small locating rune. If, for whatever reason, V decides to cast Detect Magic, *he has a very good chance to find it.
Yeah, the entire carpet is magic. :smallconfused:

[RMS Oceanic]

Yeah, the entire carpet is magic. :smallconfused:

Detect Magic allows one to use spellcraft to determine the type of magic though. Your standard magic carpet - a strange phrase to use, yes :smallsmile: - would only carry transmutation, but any kind of tracing beacon would be divination, and allow Vaarsuvius to ponder why a carpet has a divination aura.

[Yendor]

...who easily thrashed Elan, who can sort of fight.

By which you mean Tarquin prevented Elan hitting him for a few rounds, then disarmed him. Making him slightly more effective in combat than Kubota (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0593.html).

[Conuly]

Milk??? It's one of most blaring nonsenses. The most typical natural cat food... "not good for them". You've been listening to peddlers of processed cat food for too long.

No. Mammals generally lose the ability to digest lactose after infancy and weaning. SOME humans are the exception, due to a mutation that favored certain cattle herders - however, even those of us who do not develop lactose intolerance on a typical-for-our-culture diet generally WILL if we stop drinking milk. The mutation only works so long as we effectively never wean.

The most typical natural cat food is rodents, followed by birds and then fish. Mice, squirrels, rabbits, finches, wrens (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephens_Island_Wren), even tuna - all this is in the diet of adult cats, domesticated, feral, and wild. Milk is only in the diet of SOME adult cats who live with humans who give them milk.

I mean, think reasonably! Where would a feral cat, or its wild ancestor, even GET milk on a day-to-day basis? What, your geriatric is still going to suckle off its mother? (And don't buy into what the milk industry says regarding humans either. We don't need to drink milk in order to have sufficient calcium. But that's another rant.)

With that said, processed cat food has a lot to answer for as well. Cats don't need milk, but it does them less harm than a grain-based diet. Cats need to eat meat, not plants!

And yes, alliums are toxic for cats... but cats usually can't even be forcefed them. It'd be like you eating, I don't know, mouse guts. It's just not something they want to ingest. Mr. Scruffy isn't going to eat the chives.

Edit: That's weird, I seem to have skipped a page. Well, you can't shut me up once I get on a milk rant. Really, you can't. It keeps me awake at night if I get shut up. Sorry for that, though.


If, for whatever reason, V decides to cast Detect Magic, *he has a very good chance to find it.

Why would V cast Detect Magic on a magical flying carpet? Admittedly, it's probably wise to carefully and thoroughly examine any gifts from evil dictators, but that raises the question "Why would any member of the OotS do the wise and sensible thing?" instead.

[fergo]

Why would V cast Detect Magic on a magical flying carpet? Admittedly, it's probably wise to carefully and thoroughly examine any gifts from evil dictators, but that raises the question "Why would any member of the OotS do the wise and sensible thing?" instead.

V. may not, but it does sound like something the Draketooths would do. Them finding the Order leading the bad guys straight to their door may not be a good idea in the short term though...

[RoboChap]

ETA: Wait, so why *wouldn't* Roy want Tarquin to have first crack at the dungeon with its monsters and traps and fighting Xykon? Why not follow behind the bad guys and follow the Belloq strategy themselves, instead of doing all the work for someone else to profit from?

Respectfully,

Brian P.

I've only had a quick skim through the thread but couldn't see that this has been brought up so far: The OotS are trying to warn the Draketooths and get their help which is why they don't want Nale beating them there (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0816.html), so letting any villains, Xykon or otherwise, get there is a bad thing

Also, we don't know for sure that there even is a dungeon with traps etc. IIRC, each member of the Order of the Scribble defended the gates as they saw fit, and Draketooth decided to hide it behind illusions etc - having a dungeon full of monsters would make hiding it fairly hard.

Finally, as far as the OotS is concerned, Tarquin et al are not part of the Linear Guild, and as such, as far as they know, Xykon will be unopposed when he gets their unless they can warn Draketooth first, as he will be expecting a Paladin to show up, not an epic-level sorcerer (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0696.html)

[Krim]

Why would V cast Detect Magic on a magical flying carpet? Admittedly, it's probably wise to carefully and thoroughly examine any gifts from evil dictators, but that raises the question "Why would any member of the OotS do the wise and sensible thing?" instead.

Well, Haley still (rightfully) does not trust Tarquin

[Conuly]

Well, Haley still (rightfully) does not trust Tarquin

As well she shouldn't. But Haley also doesn't trust kangaroos. Her distrust of Tarquin isn't really based on the most solid of premises, she doesn't trust ANYbody. And since she can't cast Detect Magic herself (can she?) she'll have to get somebody else to do it... somebody else who also knows she's an unreasonably paranoid person.

[glissle]

Now that the next strip shows that Blackwing went with Durkon, we may know why Roy split the party. Plane shift can affect up to 8 creatures. The OOTS consists of 6 humanoids and 2 animals. If V wanted to bring the kobold back, that would be 9 creatures total.

Blackwing would be the obvious choice to leave behind (small enough to hide well, unlikely to be scryed or targeted, can fly away from trouble), but they probably did use its empathic link to help locate V.

Belkar probably wouldn't agree to leaving Mr. Scruffy behind in a hiding spot.