Ardantis
2012-02-13, 11:14 AM
One of the oft-cited weaknesses of martial classes is their dependence on multiple stats to be effective. While its true that melee types would not perform very well with, say, a negative constitution modifier, I'm proposing here an investigation into what builds look like when traditionally MAD characters are played more like SAD characters.
The Caveat-
Investigate characters (28 point buy) who have one stat starting at 18.
I'll start with the Paladin.
I had a friend in college who always played Paladins. I suppose he was just embracing that aspect of his Catholic heritage, but whatever it was, he played Paladins or Paladin-like characters in everything from Diablo II to Vampire: The Masquerade.
One day, after he had joined a gestalt game as a Paladin/Sorcerer, he says to me something along the lines of, "You know, Paladins really only need one ability score; Charisma. It powers all of their special abilities, and can be added as a bonus to all their important stats and skills."
Here's the outlay I propose:
18 Charima
14 12 Wisdom
12 11 Constitution
10 13 Strength
8 Intelligence
8 Dexterity
Charisma powers saves, smites, turning, Lay on Hands, Divine Feats, and Diplomacy
Wisdom allows for spellcasting, and since most solid Paladin spells are self-buffs, jacking up the DCs is uneccessary (alternately, you could can get by with a lower Wisdom and just use items to get up to the requisite score to cast spells. You can't cast until lvl 4 anyways, and at that point you'll have the wealth to buy a +2 Wis item. Once again, the DCs are not important, and so you rely on an item for spellcasting. Don't you already rely on a weapon for fighting?)
Consitution is important, and at least an extra HP per level is necessary. Once again, you could trade over from Wisdom but most of your defenses are Charisma-based, and you've got d10 HD.
Strength doesn't want a penalty, but isn't really as important to a Paladin as it looks. I know, I know, a Paladin without Power Attack, but Power Attack doesn't even really come online until level 6, and at that point, Paladins will be doing other things (if they're even still Paladins). Frees up a feat slot for something actually useful.
However, it is a requisite for Divine Might, (Cha based damage) and of course Power Attack is fantastic at higher levels with THF.
Intelligence is traditionally a Paladin dump stat. Diplomacy is the only seriously unique and useful Paladin skill (well, and Sense Motive), unless you're a mounted build, and since only Dwarven Paladins would even consider Ride for Tumble.
Dexterity is a Paladin dump stat. As much as it would be nice to have 12 Dex for that +1 AC in full plate, seriously, leave it to Charisma.
That means, RP-style, our Paladin is a zealot. Possessed of an incredible force of personality, perceptive, clumsy, and not all that bright.
Suggested Feats:
Human- Improved Initiative
(Human- Lighting Reflexes)
Power Attack
Extra Smiting
Battle Blessing
Divine Strength Might
Divine Favor
Divine Shield (for that animated shield you have at this point)
Extra Turning
With the boosted saves and defenses from class abilities, Divine feats and swifted spells, your conventional defenses can be very high. Yeah, you need to "power up" and are thus not always impervious (like a spellcaster before Contingency), and your major damage (smiting) only really works against evil stuff, but you are really irritating, hard to kill, and hard to ignore. Grab a falchion and a scabbard of keen edges to make it more likely that your damage bonuses will occasionally get blown out of the park.
Early levels, you lag in damage but with detect evil, Lay on Hands, and save bonuses, you are still contributing in many ways (which are on par with other classes at this point). The tough levels are 3-6, where your early abilities begin to fade in importance and your better ones aren't online yet. At six, with Battle Blessing, your early weak buffs are available on the fly, and by level nine Divine [S]Strength [S] Might plus your much improved Smite allow you to bandy about your Charisma in combat, supported by Power Attack. Notice these abilities are almost all bolstered by your impressive Charisma score.
Assuming you've upgraded to a prestige class which advances some combination of smiting, turning, and spellcasting, these benefits will follow you around, and the other Divine feats will add significant survivability (Vigor) and AC (Shield) to your repertoire.
Of course, at this point, you play more like an outsider- lots of spells and Su abilities before you actually get down to hitting things.
I think this approach to Paladins would potentially bump them up from Tier 5 to Tier 4. What do you think?
The Caveat-
Investigate characters (28 point buy) who have one stat starting at 18.
I'll start with the Paladin.
I had a friend in college who always played Paladins. I suppose he was just embracing that aspect of his Catholic heritage, but whatever it was, he played Paladins or Paladin-like characters in everything from Diablo II to Vampire: The Masquerade.
One day, after he had joined a gestalt game as a Paladin/Sorcerer, he says to me something along the lines of, "You know, Paladins really only need one ability score; Charisma. It powers all of their special abilities, and can be added as a bonus to all their important stats and skills."
Here's the outlay I propose:
18 Charima
14 12 Wisdom
12 11 Constitution
10 13 Strength
8 Intelligence
8 Dexterity
Charisma powers saves, smites, turning, Lay on Hands, Divine Feats, and Diplomacy
Wisdom allows for spellcasting, and since most solid Paladin spells are self-buffs, jacking up the DCs is uneccessary (alternately, you could can get by with a lower Wisdom and just use items to get up to the requisite score to cast spells. You can't cast until lvl 4 anyways, and at that point you'll have the wealth to buy a +2 Wis item. Once again, the DCs are not important, and so you rely on an item for spellcasting. Don't you already rely on a weapon for fighting?)
Consitution is important, and at least an extra HP per level is necessary. Once again, you could trade over from Wisdom but most of your defenses are Charisma-based, and you've got d10 HD.
Strength doesn't want a penalty, but isn't really as important to a Paladin as it looks. I know, I know, a Paladin without Power Attack, but Power Attack doesn't even really come online until level 6, and at that point, Paladins will be doing other things (if they're even still Paladins). Frees up a feat slot for something actually useful.
However, it is a requisite for Divine Might, (Cha based damage) and of course Power Attack is fantastic at higher levels with THF.
Intelligence is traditionally a Paladin dump stat. Diplomacy is the only seriously unique and useful Paladin skill (well, and Sense Motive), unless you're a mounted build, and since only Dwarven Paladins would even consider Ride for Tumble.
Dexterity is a Paladin dump stat. As much as it would be nice to have 12 Dex for that +1 AC in full plate, seriously, leave it to Charisma.
That means, RP-style, our Paladin is a zealot. Possessed of an incredible force of personality, perceptive, clumsy, and not all that bright.
Suggested Feats:
Human- Improved Initiative
(Human- Lighting Reflexes)
Power Attack
Extra Smiting
Battle Blessing
Divine Strength Might
Divine Favor
Divine Shield (for that animated shield you have at this point)
Extra Turning
With the boosted saves and defenses from class abilities, Divine feats and swifted spells, your conventional defenses can be very high. Yeah, you need to "power up" and are thus not always impervious (like a spellcaster before Contingency), and your major damage (smiting) only really works against evil stuff, but you are really irritating, hard to kill, and hard to ignore. Grab a falchion and a scabbard of keen edges to make it more likely that your damage bonuses will occasionally get blown out of the park.
Early levels, you lag in damage but with detect evil, Lay on Hands, and save bonuses, you are still contributing in many ways (which are on par with other classes at this point). The tough levels are 3-6, where your early abilities begin to fade in importance and your better ones aren't online yet. At six, with Battle Blessing, your early weak buffs are available on the fly, and by level nine Divine [S]Strength [S] Might plus your much improved Smite allow you to bandy about your Charisma in combat, supported by Power Attack. Notice these abilities are almost all bolstered by your impressive Charisma score.
Assuming you've upgraded to a prestige class which advances some combination of smiting, turning, and spellcasting, these benefits will follow you around, and the other Divine feats will add significant survivability (Vigor) and AC (Shield) to your repertoire.
Of course, at this point, you play more like an outsider- lots of spells and Su abilities before you actually get down to hitting things.
I think this approach to Paladins would potentially bump them up from Tier 5 to Tier 4. What do you think?