Need help for a freind on something I'm not terribly familiar with. (Build Help.)

[Metahuman1]

Is there a way for a character with 4 lvls in Psi-warrior to have the Hussle, Compression, Expansion, and Psionic Lions Charge Powers and enough PP to make then all day reliable? Including uses of Compression and Expansion outside of combat?

The latter is for RP purposes. I'm asking for a freind who's trying to get a character that focus's a lot on size changing as a theme trick and who is trying to be competent in Melee at the same time.

And in case anyone is wondering why only 4 lvls of Psi-warrior in the build, I'd like, if at all possible, to be able to have that be multiyclassed with Warblade and have enough warblade levels that the person get's 9th lvl Maneuvers before hitting Epic levels.

Thanks for the help. =)

[Keld Denar]

Well, you CAN afford up to 6th levels lost and still get a 9th level maneuver. Not amazing, but still satisfies your condition.

The biggest issue will probably be PP. There are a few tricks to get extra PPs, depending. If you have a decent Wisdom, taking Practiced Manifester will increase your ML. Since bonus PPs are a function of ML times +wisdom bonus, you would gain a few extra PPs. You can also buy into the Earth Node magical location for an extra 5 PPs for a year for 4500 g. Then there is the option of taking Psionic Talent a couple of times. Each time you get an extra PP per feat.

I think you can get most of those powers from Egoist, which has Int synergy, more PP per level, and a couple bonus feats at the cost of 1-2 BAB. Just an idea.

[Coidzor]

Aren't there warblade maneuvers that will let you imitate pounce without needing to use powers on it all the time?

[Keld Denar]

Pouncing Charge, a TC4 maneuver. Lion's Charge does give you a slight bonus to hit and damage with it, though, but does use your swift action so you can't combine it with a boost. You could combine it with a WR charging manevuer, though, like Warleader's Charge.

Alternatively, a single level dip in Barbarian grants an always on Pounce.

The biggest issue I see here is trying to pick up 2 2nd level powers with only 4 levels of PsyWar. Expanded Knowledge only gets you pick up powers 1 level lower than the highest level you know, which is 2-1=1. Hidden Talent is capped at level 1 powers. Thusly, in order to get both Lion's Charge AND Hustle, you would need either 5 PsyWar levels or 5 Egoist levels + Expanded Knowledge.

Or....PsiCrown (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/psicrowns.htm)? Evader grants Hustle, and a pool of 400 PP to activate it. If you just use it for Hustle, that's 133 Hustles before you have to buy a new one.

[Metahuman1]

Yeah, power points seemed like the big issue.

I had toyed with Spirit Lion Totem Barbarian dip, but I wasn't sure I could fit it in and get the other three powers. Course, it seems my math is a bit off and I can afford six levels of Not Warblade. So, that solves my pounce problem.

Question, is there a way to recharge the Psi-crown?

Also, I can't find the Egoist class and power list on the SRD, does anyone have a link I could use? Cause if it Synergies better, has the powers I care about, and more PP, that sounds like it would meet my needs better.

[Cog]

Also, I can't find the Egoist class and power list on the SRD, does anyone have a link I could use? Cause if it Synergies better, has the powers I care about, and more PP, that sounds like it would meet my needs better.
Egoist is just a specialist Psion, like Transmuter is a specialist Wizard. Skills and such are rolled in with the Psion class, and the power list is here (http://www.d20srd.org/indexes/psionicPowerList.htm).

[Keld Denar]

Question, is there a way to recharge the Psi-crown?

Buy/Craft a new Psicrown. Its like a psionic staff. That you wear on your head.

[kardar233]

If your DM is okay with stretching Magi-Psionic Transparency past what the book says, take Illumian as a race and use the Aeshkrau sigil, which allows you to use Strength for your bonus PP.

[Manateee]

You could use Azure Talent + Psycarnum Infusion for a temporary PP any time you expend your focus. That could cover all-day compression and expansion for 2 feats. It might seem a smidge abusive though (but on the other hand, it increases endurance without actually adding any power, so your call). At ECL 12, this will provide enough PP for Hustle, as well (or ECL 6, with Improved Essentia Capacity).

If you want to make pouncing an MO, I'd definitely recommend a Barbarian dip for endurance's sake (provided you aren't making one of the cheesy interpretations of PsyLion's Charge). With LA buyoff, Goliath Barbarian can even compliment the size-shifting schtick.

[erikun]

Is there any reason you need Psionic Lion Charge at 4th level, when you only have +3 BAB? If you are multiclassing, then the Practiced Manifester feat will treat you as an 8th level manifester (at most), including the bonus PP for being so. That would be basically double your bonus PP from Wisdom, which could be handy.

Note that both Hustle and Lion Charge are swift actions, and so can't both be used on the same turn.

Other than that, you are spending 1 PP to expand/compress for 8 rounds, and 3 PP every time you want an extra movement. Unless your enemies are always spread out, or unless you are repeatedly trying to use the 7 PP Expansion/Compression augment, you should be reasonably OK with power points.

[Metahuman1]

You could use Azure Talent + Psycarnum Infusion for a temporary PP any time you expend your focus. That could cover all-day compression and expansion for 2 feats, without accessing. It might seem a smidge abusive though (but on the other hand, it increases endurance without actually adding any power, so your call). At ECL 12, this will provide enough PP for Hustle, as well (or ECL 6, with Improved Essentia Capacity).

If you want to make pouncing an MO, I'd definitely recommend a Barbarian dip for endurance's sake (provided you aren't making one of the cheesy interpretations of PsyLion's Charge). With LA buyoff, Goliath Barbarian can even compliment the size-shifting schtick.

Um, with out accessing, meaning it covers it for two feats with out what ever you need to access the powers in the first place?

Having said that, would this trick allow you to be doing a fairly regular shift between your base size and the two size category's going either way from Compression and Expansion with out having to worry about PP?

Edit: Eriken


I need Pounce, and it was a way of getting it while also getting access to the Maifester level I needed for Hustle. Part of this was my mistake on the math for Martial Maneuver progressions making me thing I could only give up 4 lvls in a martial initiator class and still get 9th lvl maneuvers. I apparently can give up 6, and have since decided to drop a level in spirit Lion Totem Barbarian for Pounce, meaning now I just need to secure consistent use of Expansion, Compression, and Hustle for a combo of Combat buff/mobility and in the case of Expansion and Compression, for RP purposes as the person who asked me about this to begin with had expressed interest in doing a charater who used that as an out of combat theme. Figured it would be an interesting item to explore.

[Manateee]

Um, with out accessing, meaning it covers it for two feats with out what ever you need to access the powers in the first place?
I think that meant that I started typing, did something else and forgot to finish the sentence I was on. <_<

Having said that, would this trick allow you to be doing a fairly regular shift between your base size and the two size category's going either way from Compression and Expansion with out having to worry about PP?
It only grants enough temporary PP to fill an Incarnum feat (meaning 1+1 for every 6 HD, +1 with Improved Essentia Capacity), so it would only fuel 1-step size shifts. Increasing it to 2 steps is possible, but starts to get unwieldy (Psicrystal Containment+Torc of Power Preservation+Midnight Augmentation would allow 2 sizes of either increase or decrease from ECL 12 for an Incarnum race; you could add IEC to drop it to ECL 6, but fitting the feats and wealth in that early would be limiting)

[Metahuman1]

I think that meant that I started typing, did something else and forgot to finish the sentence I was on. <_<

It only grants enough temporary PP to fill an Incarnum feat (meaning 1+1 for every 6 HD, +1 with Improved Essentia Capacity), so it would only fuel 1-step size shifts. Increasing it to 2 steps is possible, but starts to get unwieldy (Psicrystal Containment+Torc of Power Preservation+Midnight Augmentation would allow 2 sizes of either increase or decrease from ECL 12 for an Incarnum race; you could add IEC to drop it to ECL 6, but fitting the feats and wealth in that early would be limiting)

Ok, so, what if I just wanted to get it to give me 2 temp PP, and then had the person invest some money in Manifester property ammo of some nature (Sling Bullets, Shuriken, Arrows, ext.) and use one from there supply of those to get the extra 5 PP when they needed/wanted to go for a two step size shift? Would that work?


Alternatively, would this plan work if some of the extra feats involved were acquired by paying out the gold to a caster to do the dark chaos shuffle on you? Yes, a touch exploitative, I openly admit that, but if it's for a mostly mundane character that's just trying to get an unusual trick and an option for those times were the melee just needs mobility and your paying for it out of standard WLB, I think most reasonable DM's would be willing to let it go provided the shenanigan's mostly ended with this one round of set up.

[Keld Denar]

I couldn't find it, but I'm pretty sure there is a rule that states that all PP must come from one source. You couldn't use 3 PP from a manifester arrow, 4 PP from a Cognative Crystal, 3 PP from your Psiforged Body feat, and 2 of your own PP to power a 12 PP power.

So yea, a manifester arrow with 3 PP would let you do an Expansion with the extended duration, but you couldn't use those PPs toward the manifesting of the 2 size increase Expansion.

[Metahuman1]

Well, Ok, that kinda makes this more difficult. *Sigh.* Kinda wish she had more system Mastery, I'd just introduce her to Gestalt.

When it says can't be from two sources, does that include your own personal PP by chance?

And per chance, is there a way for a Psion to get a power that isn't on there Powers List as a known power?

[Keld Denar]

Correct. If you used points from a manifested arrow, you couldn't suppliment with your own points. That's one reason why Cognisence Crystals are strictly inferior to Pearls of Power.

As far as getting powers, I mentions 2 ways above. Hidden Talent, which can only be taken at 1st level and only grants a single 1st level power, and Expanded Knowledge which can be used to poach any power one level lower than the max you can manifest.

There is a way for one Psion to mooch powers off another Psion temporarily, but it is neither reliable, not efficient for actions. It's mostly used for utility powers.

A homebrew method would be simply to make a psionic equivalent to a Knowstone or Drakehelm. 1000*(power level)^2 would be a reasonable cost for such an item.

[Metahuman1]

Actually, given that as of yet the build isn't feat starved (Thank heaven she didn't say "I want to be a warrior that uses two swords for this too.") I think I can work Hidden Talent in there to get Expansion. I've been playing with a template that granted SLA's we were gonna give her for fluff reasons (Looking for things to cut to reduce LA mostly.), and figured if I dropped most of the SLA's except a modified version of Alter Self I could get this to work with out compression. And I worked a 1 lvl cleric dip in, for travel devotion and turn undead, so Hustle isn't a priority either. Now all I need to get flying is Expansion.


Ok, Here's probably an insane question. Is there a Psionic Item floating around somewhere that allows you to use one power an unlimited number of times? Or that allows you to reduce the cost of a specific power or just powers your manifesting in general?


The playground knows I'm getting desperate when I'm willing to make a trick be gear dependent.

[Keld Denar]

Um, depends on the power. There are several Psychoactive Skins that do various things. Maybe look for one of them? Or use one as a template to make your own?

As far as reducing PP costs, there are several ways. Torc of Power Preservation (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/universalItems.htm#torcofPowerPreservation) is one. It was reprinted in the MIC for like, 1/3 the cost, but only functions 5/day. You could probably use either. Everything else requires a fair number of feats. Earth Power works when you are touching the ground and don't expend your focus for anything. Midnight Augmentation works if you have essentia. Etc.

[Metahuman1]

Ok, Would any of those skins work for Expansion?

Alternatively, if I wanted to have the torc work just for expansion, how much would that reasonably lower the price?

[Venger]

I'd go with the crowd and say that since you have so much going on with this build that you can probably skip psionic lions' charge. since your build isn't feat-starved, just take travel devotion from complete champion. it's got no prereqs and lets you move your full speed as a free action for 1 minute, so you can move 30 ft (or however fast you move) up to your enemy (and you can move in zigzags or whatever too, or just 10 feet, which is problematic for chargers) and then full attack. combats just plain never last 10 rounds, so you ought to be fine. how many combats/day does your campaign have? if it's a lot more than 1 and you want to be able to pounce more often, consider a cloistered cleric dip. you can either keep the domain power (pick whatever) since you'll have enough wis for a couple 1st lvl spells a day and domain, or you can pick travel domain and switch out use of it for the travel devotion feat for free. even if you don't do that, the domain's cool, giving a freedom of motion effect for your cleric lvl rounds/day (1 in this case, but that's all you need to escape from a grapple. travel domain power, full attack the guy who was attacking you, travel domain to move out of there) your 1st lvl domain is longstrider too, which boosts your speed 10 feet and lasts 1hr/lvl, so you can keep it up for a good long time precombat to make your travel devotion better.

[Metahuman1]

Yeah, I think I'm just gonna have the character dip Barbarian and Cleric for Pounce and Travel Devotion, eliminating the mobility problem.

That just leaves the size change thing.

Soooo, anyone want to speculate on what an Item that lowers the Cost of one specific first level power by 2 PP should cost? I realize this will probably be a custom Item and thus involve DM cooperation, but I figure my chances are better if I come in and say "Ok, so, we've got this concept, we need this item, we were thinking it should probably cost X, but we'd like to hear your input on the item and it's price." and actually have a reasonable price, at least to start with.