Upgrading Belt of Magnificence to epic [3.5]

[Igneel]

Hello again, its that time again where I ask a question that some will more then likely find easier then I to answer.

I will just be frank I stink at calculating the price it costs for magic item creation before epic levels, let alone after reaching epic levels. So what do I do? I sign up for a epic game where the WBL is ~7 mil gold pieces. Now granted I am more then capable of figuring out the price it costs to add certain item effects onto other items thanks to the MIC/DMG [additional item price x 1.5 I believe], I was wondering about existing items that I want to upgrade to have better effects.

For example, I have my eye on the Belt of Magnificence [Miniatures] which by the book gives a max +6 enhance to all your stats. But I can't quite figure out how it comes out only to 200k gp instead of something closer to ~216k gp [(Bonus squared)*6 stats], before even delving into the epic bonuses I could get.

Could someone please point out where I am going wrong, or maybe even show me what kind of calculations I should show my Dm to explain how I got prices for an upgraded version?

[hydraa]

Well it appears they smoothed something out somewhere on it and made pricing even harder especially when you look at that affinity is not considered as well. Belt is for physical improvement, so mentals and Dex should be 50% more.

[Non-epic]

6 stats at +2 = 2^2*1000*6= 24000
Belt +2 = 25000 belt is +1000

6 stats at +4 = 4^2*1000*6= 96000
Belt +4 = 100000 belt is +4000

6 stats at +6 = 6^2*1000*6= 216000
Belt +6 = 200000 belt is -16000

looks like 6250 per +2 to all stats at +2 and +4, 5000 for +4 to +6

Epic

6 stats at +8 should be 8^2*1000*10*6=3.84 milllon
belt +8 = 4M at 6250*8^2*10
6 stats at +10 should be 10^2*10000*10*6= 6 million
belt +10 = 6.25 Mill at 6250*10^2*10
6 stats at +12 should be 12^2*1000*10*6= 8.64 million
belt = 8.45 Mill (at +2200000 at 5000*(12^2-10^2)*10) (giving the discount for a +6 break)

I think that the 62500*stat^2 would look approriate for the epic belt. There was just a nice little discout to allow it to not be epic at +6

[Igneel]

Well it appears they smoothed something out somewhere on it and made pricing even harder especially when you look at that affinity is not considered as well. Belt is for physical improvement, so mentals and Dex should be 50% more.

Belt +2 = 25000 6 stats at +2 = 2^2*1000*6= 24000 belt is +1000
Belt +4 = 100000 6 stats at +4 = 4^4*1000*6= 96000 belt is +4000
Belt +6 = 200000 6 stats at +6 = 6^6*1000*6= 216000 belt is -16000

6250 per +2 to all stats at +2 and +4, 5000 for +4 to +6
Epic
6 stats at +8 should be 8^8*1000*10*6=3.84 milllon
belt would be 4M at 6250*10
6 stats at +10 should be 10^10*10000*10*6= 6 million
belt would be 6.25 Mill at 6250*10
6 stats at +12 should be 12^12*1000*10*6= 8.64 million
belty would be (at 2200000 at 5000*(12^12-10^10)*10) for 8.45 million (giving the discount for a +6 break)

I think that the 62500*stat^2 would look approriate for the epic belt. There was just a nice little discout to allow it to not be epic at +6

Ahh... Alright, this seems to make alot of sense to me as to why I don't see more Epic characters running around with an Epic belt like this. Over 8 mil is quite expensive for a +12 to all stats, but then if it was any cheaper everyone would go and buy it I suppose.

Thank you very much for the quick answer to my question. Now I will be able to share at least the price tags with my DM and fellow players since a bunch were debating between taking Drolyt's VoP/Epic Progression or going through the 7 mil gold.

[Chronos]

The Belt of Magnificence is indeed a slight discount from what the standard formula would give you. In practice, though, it's almost never worthwhile, since it's extremely rare for a single character to actually have meaningful use for all six stats, and a custom item with bonuses to five or fewer stats will be cheaper than the belt.

[tyckspoon]

Ahh... Alright, this seems to make alot of sense to me as to why I don't see more Epic characters running around with an Epic belt like this. Over 8 mil is quite expensive for a +12 to all stats, but then if it was any cheaper everyone would go and buy it I suppose.

Thank you very much for the quick answer to my question. Now I will be able to share at least the price tags with my DM and fellow players since a bunch were debating between taking Drolyt's VoP/Epic Progression or going through the 7 mil gold.

The Epic stat/armor/save items are really stupidly expensive compared to the benefits they give; you'll almost always be better off finding another non-Epic item to stack for a similar or better benefit (such as buying multiple redundant means of miss chance instead of paying the excessive price to move from a +5 Ring of Protection and Amulet of Natural Armor to +6.)

I haven't looked over that particular homebrew, but chances are effective use of 7 million GP is still the more powerful option. Still, there's something to be said for simplicity, because a 7 mil GP shopping list is a huge headache to sort out.

[hydraa]

The Belt of Magnificence is indeed a slight discount from what the standard formula would give you. In practice, though, it's almost never worthwhile, since it's extremely rare for a single character to actually have meaningful use for all six stats, and a custom item with bonuses to five or fewer stats will be cheaper than the belt.

Actually the belt is a significat discount if you apply the body slot affinity rules. The belt should be 8/6 of the cost since 4 of the 6 stats are not slated for a belt slot (33% more)

A head slot can accomodate 3 stats (mentals) and thus would be 7.5/6 more expensive than this belt (25% more)

[Cog]

Actually the belt is a significat discount if you apply the body slot affinity rules. The belt should be 8/6 of the cost since 4 of the 6 stats are not slated for a belt slot (33% more)

A head slot can accomodate 3 stats (mentals) and thus would be 7.5/6 more expensive than this belt (25% more)
Since Magic Item Compendium lets you add the +stat for no extra to whatever other item you might be wearing in the usual spot anyway, the affinities don't really factor into determining the Belt's discount; it makes more sense to compare it to the total if whatever headband, periapt, etc that you'd be buying separately.

[Igneel]

The Belt of Magnificence is indeed a slight discount from what the standard formula would give you. In practice, though, it's almost never worthwhile, since it's extremely rare for a single character to actually have meaningful use for all six stats, and a custom item with bonuses to five or fewer stats will be cheaper than the belt.
It was mostly a curiosity kind of thing since I don't see the subject brought up as much (and foolishly didn't expect it to cost that much). I'm truthfully looking more towards a 3-4 stat boost item anyways but I guess with the mindset that 'if a little is good, alot is better' kinda rose up when thinking about possible items to purchase.
So I'll be asking the Dm about just allowing me to basically make a item for the 3-4 stats I'm looking at.


The Epic stat/armor/save items are really stupidly expensive compared to the benefits they give; you'll almost always be better off finding another non-Epic item to stack for a similar or better benefit (such as buying multiple redundant means of miss chance instead of paying the excessive price to move from a +5 Ring of Protection and Amulet of Natural Armor to +6.)

I haven't looked over that particular homebrew, but chances are effective use of 7 million GP is still the more powerful option. Still, there's something to be said for simplicity, because a 7 mil GP shopping list is a huge headache to sort out.
I seem to be learning that the hard way. One player was already asking about possibly dropping the x10 multiplier for Epic items, but just in case it wasn't dropped I wanted to know a ballpark estimate of what such an item would cost.
The VoP fix (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140428)/Epic Progression (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8708645&postcount=68) is good in alot of ways, but since the DM is limiting to only up to the lvl 30 abilities and not giving anything else after that I think that shifting through books of material is better for the price. Only thing I really would want from this are the nice bonus feats :smallwink:

[hydraa]

Since Magic Item Compendium lets you add the +stat for no extra to whatever other item you might be wearing in the usual spot anyway, the affinities don't really factor into determining the Belt's discount; it makes more sense to compare it to the total if whatever headband, periapt, etc that you'd be buying separately.

MIC p 233 and 234 gives credance to contining the body slot for stat boosters. (specifically saying that Wis should not be added to gloves) It is a DM call however and I agree that going against the base levels makes sense because most of them would be added at that rate.

[Chronos]

You don't have to put Wis on gloves, though. You can spend 36k to put Wis on whatever amulet you were planning on using anyway, and spend 36k to put Dex on whatever gloves you were planning on using anyway, and so on. If you're adding abilities to an existing item you were going to wear anyway, it doesn't really matter what slots those existing items were on: It's effectively the same thing as slotless bonuses.

[ericgrau]

I remember even at level 30 it was still better to gear out with mostly non-epic items. Epic stuff is crazy expensive. I didn't even want my primary weapon to be epic. So I got a backup non-epic weapon that was identical to my primary non-epic weapon instead. Still less than 1/5th the price and only slightly weaker.

With a 7 mil budget I might have gotten 1 or 2 x10 epic items but that's it. Probably primary ability score + primary weapon or similar.

[Mystify]

Pricing for epic items is horrible. The cost of items and the WBL are not actually in a balanced state. By level 20, the discrepancy is so large its ridiculous. Epic levels added the x10 multiplier to fix that, which also falters and fails before long.

[candycorn]

Assuming that the belt is (Bonus^2) x a number, for cost, the easiest way to get the new cost is to divide the cost (200,000) by the square of the existing bonus (36) and then multiply it by the square of the new bonus (144). This yields a result of 800,000, which is then multiplied by 10, for the epic cost increase, yielding a result of 8,000,000. Other people have gotten this result, but this is the fastest way to get it. It preserves the exact discount that the game designers incorporated into the item, without going through the mess or bother of finding out what that discount is.

[Tyndmyr]

MIC p 233 and 234 gives credance to contining the body slot for stat boosters. (specifically saying that Wis should not be added to gloves) It is a DM call however and I agree that going against the base levels makes sense because most of them would be added at that rate.

The point is that MIC is costing you a slot. Affinities are basically pointless for stat boosters, since MIC allows you to add them to any item.

So, the belt costs you a slot, and saves a marginal amount of gold if you need all six stats. Which, frankly, you probably don't. If anything, the belt is overpriced.