The Blackwood Campaign Setting | Folklore. Action. Dice. | PEACH

[Zap Dynamic]

The Blackwood
Campaign Setting
Folklore. Action. Dice.
A Zap Dynamic Creation.

Setting Wiki (https://the-blackwood-campaign-setting.obsidianportal.com/wikis/home-page) (WIP)
Current Game:
IC Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17025532#post17025532) | OOC Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17025518#post17025518) | Dice Thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=17025580#post17025580)


Once upon a time...
The Blackwood was a vast forest that had been planted in the bones of the earth. It rose and fell in countless hills up into the Heights, the tallest mountains in the world. Its border was stark, and outsiders did not tempt it. Inside, humans had scraped out a life for countless generations, but did not know civilization until the reign of the Elder King. Wisdom and prosperity were his scepter and sword, though not all would heed him. Some still clung to the old ways, and worshipped the elves in the Blackwood’s darkest depths. There was not war between them, but never could there be peace.

The Elder King and his family had always lived in seclusion at Heavenly Meadow Palace. The edicts that came down the river from that nigh-mythical ground were full of justice, and clever minds discovered great secrets held within. These words guided the people of the Blackwood on a thousand-year trail of history. They were the heralds of a golden age in the heart of the wilderness.

But those edicts ceased nearly fifteen years ago. An ancient power has stirred since that fateful day, and gloom has fallen on the Wood. Much of the nobility has fallen to corruption, many of the beleaguered folk of the Wood have turned into lawless bandits, and there are rumors that the malicious powers of the elves are waxing strong once more.

The Council at Sky Pillar, an august body of knights, has called upon their fellows to join with the errant heroes and vigilantes that live on the fringe of society. Only through the alliance of all the virtuous men and women of the Blackwood will the common folk find deliverance, though the road will be long and treacherous.


Welcome to the Blackwood Campaign Setting! This setting combines European folk tales with the high-flying action of Chinese wuxia. This Old School Renaissance-inspired setting was designed for play with Warrior, Rogue, & Mage (http://www.stargazergames.eu/games/warrior-rogue-mage/), but could be easily adapted for play in any system.

Players will want to look through this guide and pick out entries that interest them. A comprehensive knowledge of the setting will help you on your adventures, but is by no means necessary.

Gamemasters require familiarity with the whole guide to effectively run a campaign in the Blackwood. This setting is designed with plenty of areas for GMs to add their own material; the Player’s Guide is an effective tool for flavoring your own scenes, encounters, and quests.

Overgrown ruins and crafty spirits wait just beyond the safety of the village wall… Onward!



<Under Construction--Contents & Rules>



Thanks: Amaril, JustPlayItLoud, Landis963, Pokonic, sdream, Trellan, Tsa'Bakr, unosarta, Wyntonian, and anyone else who's given feedback for (or played in) this setting.

Special thanks to Eldest, who's been with me since the beginning!

Past Adventures in the Blackwood

2012-13: Tales of the Blackwood | IC (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237661) | OOC (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=237541)

[Zap Dynamic]

<Under Construction--Regions & Characters>

[Zap Dynamic]

<Under Construction--Magic, Spells, Weapon Mastery>

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<Under Construction--Bestiary and Treasure>

[Zap Dynamic]

<Under Construction--GM Stuff and Further Reading>


Further Reading

The Links to Wisdom: OSR House Rules Wiki (http://campaignwiki.org/wiki/LinksToWisdom/HomePage)

An Introduction to the Wuxia Genre (http://www.heroic-cinema.com/eric/xia.html)
On Fairy Stories (http://public.callutheran.edu/~brint/Arts/Tolkien.pdf)

100 Medieval Careers (http://abutterflydreaming.com/2009/02/06/100-medieval-careers/)
Medieval Occupations (http://www.svincent.com/MagicJar/Economics/MedievalOccupations.html)

Blogs
Ars Ludi (http://arsludi.lamemage.com/) - Story Games Guru

How to Play (http://arsludi.lamemage.com/index.php/category/play/)

Hack & Slash (http://hackslashmaster.blogspot.com/) - OSR Gaming Guru

OSR Required Reading List (http://hackslashmaster.blogspot.com/2011/02/on-osr-required-reading-list-have-you.html)

Dreams in the Lich House (http://dreamsinthelichhouse.blogspot.com/)

Game Master Advice (http://dreamsinthelichhouse.blogspot.com/search/label/Game%20Master%20Advice)

[Zaknir]

This is VERY intresting you know?

I'll follow this project with great interest :)

For the "Bureaucrat" role, there are a variety of "Noble" class from various sources that might be what you're looking for, or the Marshal from Miniature's Handbook, or again a class wich I don't remember the name from Dragonlance Campaign setting.

See ya and great work :)

P.S.
The simplified class and the simplified races links don't work :P

[Zap Dynamic]

This is VERY intresting you know?

I'll follow this project with great interest :)

Thanks!


For the "Bureaucrat" role, there are a variety of "Noble" class from various sources that might be what you're looking for, or the Marshal from Miniature's Handbook, or again a class wich I don't remember the name from Dragonlance Campaign setting.

I guess I should have been a little more clear on what I was looking for. In the Game of Thrones tabletop game, there's a class who's job it is to get all the money, have all the contacts, and pull the strings behind the scenes while the sword guys do their swording and the tracker guys do their tracking. It makes me think of a "party" of adventurers that can still work as a team even while separated by hundreds of miles. It also makes me think of campaigns that involve, like, maybe one combat per character level. It's terribly exciting stuff.

That said, I think I might end up making the class myself or putting out a request in the homebrew section. I glanced at E6 stuff today, and it seems pretty cool, but I need to look more closely to figure out if it's feasible.


P.S.
The simplified class and the simplified races links don't work :P

Hmmm... The links have worked for me on two different computers, now. I'll fix them when I get home just to be certain.

In other news, I've put up blurbs under the Geography section, reworked the Cosmology section, and moved the Factions to the "And Its People" post for the sake of space in "The Realm" post. Huzzah!

[Zaknir]

Thanks!
I guess I should have been a little more clear on what I was looking for. In the Game of Thrones tabletop game, there's a class who's job it is to get all the money, have all the contacts, and pull the strings behind the scenes while the sword guys do their swording and the tracker guys do their tracking. It makes me think of a "party" of adventurers that can still work as a team even while separated by hundreds of miles. It also makes me think of campaigns that involve, like, maybe one combat per character level. It's terribly exciting stuff.


You know...it REALLY sounds like the Bard concept, but with MONEY instead of SPELLS

Maybe you could create a custom class that works as the bard but when it would take spells, instead gain the "Favour" class ability of the Noble (Dragonlance).

BTW
Is this a 3.5 project or Pathfinder project?

[Eldest]

I like this idea, and I wish I had seen it earlier. Btw, Savannah's trying something sorta similar, with her setting Badger's Hollow. I would link it, but apparently I don't have a link. :smallannoyed:

[Zap Dynamic]

Maybe you could create a custom class that works as the bard but when it would take spells, instead gain the "Favour" class ability of the Noble (Dragonlance).

I like it! (http://guilesworld.sudymodesign.com/role-playing-games-stuff/dragonlance/noble.html) It's extremely similar to the class in GoT.


BTW
Is this a 3.5 project or Pathfinder project?

After reading through most of the classes on Gnorman's E6 Compendium (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215986), I think that's going to be the way to go. If the E6 Handbook knows what it's talking about, then E6 characters can handle up to 12th-ish level threats. That's right on track with the kind of demographic (http://www.autarch.co/2011/07/the-demographics-of-heroism/) I hope to create. The whole of the Blackwood is home to a little more than 1 million people, and the largest city only has 11,000 or so. With that in mind, I think its only fair to design a setting such that the PCs can become the most powerful mortals around. :smallsmile:


I like this idea, and I wish I had seen it earlier. Btw, Savannah's trying something sorta similar, with her setting Badger's Hollow. I would link it, but apparently I don't have a link.

No worries! This has only been posted for, like, three days anyway. Badger's Hollow (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195479) seems eerily similar to what I have in mind. I swear I didn't steal anything! :smalltongue:

In other news, I added another section (or two... can't remember) to the Parallels post. I'm about to add some stuff to the Crunch section, as well as hammer out some info about the races in the People post. If I'm feeling crazy, I may even throw up the info I have about the cities... at least their populations.

[Zap Dynamic]

All right, so I definitely did do all of those things I said I might do. In particular, take a look at the whole "Half Elf" thing in the Races section. It's admittedly pretty weird. Thoughts?

[Eldest]

After reading through most of the classes on Gnorman's E6 Compendium (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215986), I think that's going to be the way to go. If the E6 Handbook knows what it's talking about, then E6 characters can handle up to 12th-ish level threats. That's right on track with the kind of demographic (http://www.autarch.co/2011/07/the-demographics-of-heroism/) I hope to create. The whole of the Blackwood is home to a little more than 1 million people, and the largest city only has 11,000 or so. With that in mind, I think its only fair to design a setting such that the PCs can become the most powerful mortals around. :smallsmile:


*looks at sig*
It's spreading...
MWAHAHAHA!!! :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

Anyway, when I am much less tired I shall look through your stuff in earnest. And PEACH. And help.

[Wyntonian]

While I have many (good) things to say about this setting, one sticks foremost in my mind.

WHO MADE YOUR MAP???

[Zap Dynamic]

While I have many (good) things to say about this setting, one sticks foremost in my mind.

WHO MADE YOUR MAP???

I did! :smallbiggrin: I've already made some minor adjustments, and I'm working on a fancier, "painted" style now.

I've been mapping with photoshop for a few years now, but I've only just started getting good. Here's a link (http://kungfuamadeus.deviantart.com/) to my deviantArt profile.

[Savannah]

Ooh, I like it! :smallsmile: Will need to read it in more detail when it's not 2:30 am, though :smalltongue:

[Wyntonian]

Because I feel bad just demaning map-related answers, I do hereby solemnly swear I'll look over this setting a little more thoroughly some time today. I'll PM you about linking them, too.

[Zap Dynamic]

Wowza! Now that I've got so many people interested in taking a look, I guess I should let everyone know that there's very little flavor text at this point. The italicized bit before the picture in the OP and the history section are the only things that are even vague attempts at flavor thus far, but I intend to make everything taste delicious eventually.

Also, I've got rough drafts for each of the faction "racial modifiers." I think I'll put those up now.

[Zap Dynamic]

Factions


Each of these is prone to change, and they will definitely be expanded to include more flavor later on. Before I dive in, here's the format of the stat blocks. As a reminder, right now character pick two of these at character creation instead of picking a race. Everyone is otherwise a human, and this reflects the circles in which a character travels.

Title
Size: How widespread the faction is. Small factions have contacts in two locations, Medium have contacts in 4 locations, and Large factions have contacts in 6 locations.
Ability: Each faction grants a +2 bonus to one ability score.
Skill: Each faction also adds one skill to your list of class skills. These are all Pathfinder skills, because Pathfinder's skills are better. :smallsmile:
Contacts: Each location has contacts in a number of different locations, according to its size. There may be a mechanic to look for a contact in an atypical place, probably involving a d% roll.
Skills Available: In addition to providing contacts, each faction also grants access to (and eventually discounts at) various professionals. These professionals can grant Knowledge, Influence, or Skills.

Riverfolk
Size: Large
Ability: +2 Cha
Skill: Appraise
Contacts: Freeport, Three Rivers, Span, Grey Folly, Grand Delving, Sentry Grove
Skills Available: Appraise, Craft (Jewelry, Armorcraft), Diplomacy, Disable Device, Disguise, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Knowledge (Engineering, History, Local, Nobility, Religion), Linguistics, Perform, Profession (Sailor, Trader, Noble, Etc.), Sense Motive, Swim

Woodfolk
Size: Large
Ability: +2 Wis
Skill: Survival
Contacts: The Stag and Dragon, High Hall, Grey Folly, Sentry Grove, Span, Three Rivers
Skills Available: Climb, Craft (Fur, Bowmaking, Etc.), Diplomacy, Handle Animal, Heal, Intimidate, Knowledge (Arcana, Geography, Local), Perception, Ride, Stealth, Survival

Elder King
Size: Large
Ability: +2 Wis
Skill: Knowledge (History)
Contacts: Elder Gate, Grand Delving, Three Rivers, Grey Folly, Span, Sentry Grove
Skills Available: Appraise, Craft (Silversmith, Calligraphy, Art, etc.), Diplomacy, Knowledge (Arcana, Engineering, History, Nobility, Religion), Spellcraft, Use Magic Device

Cerai
Size: Medium
Ability: +2 Cha
Skill: Knowledge (Nobility)
Contacts: Freeport, The Stag and Dragon, Three Rivers, Span
Skills Available: Appraise, Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Knowledge (Geography, Religion), Linguistics, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand

Koss
Size: Small
Ability: +2 Con
Skill: Intimidate
Contacts: Winter, Three Rivers
Skills Available: Climb, Craft (Armormaking, Weaponmaking, Sculpting, etc.), Intimidate, Knowledge (Engineering, History), Linguistics

Sentinels
Size: Medium
Ability: +2 Str
Skill: Diplomacy
Contacts: Elder Kingdom, Stag and Dragon, Sky Pillar, High Hall
Skills Available: Acrobatics, Diplomacy, Escape Artist, Heal, Intimidate, Knowledge (Geography, History), Profession (Sentinel), Ride, Sense Motive, Survival

Hunters
Size: Medium
Ability: +2 Dex
Skill: Perception
Contacts: High Hall, Grey Folly, Stag and Dragon, Spearwood
Skills Available: Acrobatics, Climb, Craft (Bowmaking, Trapmaking, Furs), Diplomacy, Disable Device, Escape Artist, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (Geography, Local, Nature, The Planes), Perception, Profession (Hunter), Sleight of Hand, Stealth, Survival

Spearwood Brotherhood
Size: Small
Ability: +2 Dex
Skill: Handle Animal
Contacts: Stag and Dragon, Sentry Grove
Skills Available: Acrobatics, Climb, Craft (Spears), Escape Artist, Fly, Handle Animal, Heal, Intimidate, Knowledge (Arcana, Geography, Nature, The Planes), Linguistics, Perception, Ride, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Spellcraft, Stealth, Survival, Use Magic Device

Kobolds
Size: Medium
Ability: +2 Int
Skill: Knowledge (Planes)
Contacts: Grand Delving, Elder Gate, Three Rivers, Freeport
Skills Available: Appraise, Craft (Any), Disable Device, Disguise, Escape Artist, Heal, Knowledge (All), Linguistics, Profession (Scholar, Craftsman), Spellcraft, Use Magic Device

Brigands
Size: Medium
Ability: +2 Any
Skill: Survival
Contacts: Three Rivers, Span, The Bracken, Stag and Dragon
Skills Available: Acrobatics, Appraise, Bluff, Climb, Diplomacy, Disable Device, Disguise, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Knowledge (Geography, Nature), Perception, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Stealth, Survival, Swim

Unified
Size: Medium
Ability: +2 Cha
Skill: Knowledge (Religion)
Contacts: Freeport, Three Rivers, Stag and Dragon, Span
Skills Available: Appraise, Diplomacy, Heal, Knowledge (Arcana, History, Religon, The Planes), Linguistics, Profession (Clergy), Spellcraft, Use Magic Device

[Eldest]

Would you be able to stack two of the same ability scores, because that may get out of hand. What if you had each faction offer two ability scores, but you have to chose one, and you can't have two +2s to the same score?

[Zap Dynamic]

I had planned on that being the case. I wasn't sure how that would affect things in the E6 world... My thinking was that a character with an additional +4 to an ability score is choosing specialization over generalization, which tends to balance itself out. For instance, a sorcerer with a +4 to Cha (especially over the course of the first 6 levels) is going to have a harder time than a sorcerer who only has a +2 to Cha, but a +2 to Con as well. Also, that's something that each DM could keep track of and deal with on a case-by-case basis. Maybe it could be resolved if I just include a note saying as much?

[Pokonic]

About Giantkin and the like: It could be that you can simply state that "All Trolls are Different" is a actual cosmic rule. One Ginny Greenteeth (Annis Hag) eats small childeren who wander up to her lair, and her late husband Garon (a Two-headed troll) lurked in a nearby hollow and hunted down deer before he was slain. There childeren include a two-headed giant, a stony man with rock-hard skin, and a girl who has strange powers over nature that occasinaly plays with childeren near her home when mama is'nt looking ( a half-fey human child with levels in Druid).

They are realy varing fey that have too many ties to the natural world, and are happier in a stone hut ( or under a dich, or in a cave, or inside a hill, ect), and have a bit more pratical sence then 'bolds or elves. A few have little reason not to "adopt" a child if there parents are not nearby, and such childeren have a much greater chance at developing raging or magical abilites, even if there "parents" have none.

[Zap Dynamic]

I like the thoughts about Trolls, and they're sort of in line with the way I've been thinking about them.

Originally, the Forest was the last place where magic still existed. It had the ability to warp things that lived under its eaves, and for humans that meant corruption. In the original setting, humans were minorly anti-magic: one human alone wasn't enough for it to be noticeable; a band of them could stave off the forest's effects, and an entire town could actually create a sort of bubble of protection. If you wandered too far out into the wood, however, you risked being transformed into a Troll.

Much of that has changed, but I still picture Trolls being (at least descended from) twisted humans. They're generally large, hideously ugly, and pretty stupid. That said, there's a lot of room for these Trolls to look pretty different from each other. Maybe one just looks large and deformed, while another might look like some creature made of wood and moss.

I also agree with the idea that Trolls aren't necessarily evil. There may be places in the wild where Trolls and humans live together in a kind of uneasy peace. Although trolls are naturally cruel, they're also notoriously stupid, and can be easily tricked into helping someone out. They can also speak, though they may or may not speak your particular language.


While I'm posting, I want to start cataloging different ways that magic is expressed in fairy tales. Right off the bat, I can think of the witches cauldron (whether it's poison or potions), the enchanted sword (or any enchanted object or person, for that matter... Excalibur and Sleeping Beauty come to mind), the prophesy (sights and revelations in general), the illusion (ghosts seem to do this a lot), locomotion/teleporting/phasing (how else do the fairies get to fairyland?), and truenaming (Rumplestiltskin being the most obvious example).

Out of all these, I think I'm comfortable including all of them in the setting except truenaming. My reasoning is this: there's very little danger of power creep when your magic is about brewing potions, enchanting people and things, pronouncing prophecies, and creating illusions. Being able to jump around willy-nilly (whether that be balancing on bamboo or teleporting from one realm to the next) is in some serious grey area, but truenaming just seems... really powerful. I suppose it could be limited like Rumplestiltskin implies (you can make an Elf go away if you know its true name, but you're not about to do anything grander), but I don't know. Does anyone have a thought on this?

[Pokonic]

On trolls: I would have them be a combo of the following: Well, trolls, Giants and Giantkin, Hags, Ogres, Treants, and finaly any sort of unseelie fey one could think of.



Dont have truenaming per say. but hand out stuff like "The beast of Beri road can be pushed back be the sound of a birds death-cry" as rewards and such, not by any sort of class ability. The information about the local magical tree and the hunting down of the troll who knows the password could be a adventure unto itself.

[Zap Dynamic]

On trolls: I would have them be a combo of the following: Well, trolls, Giants and Giantkin, Hags, Ogres, Treants, and finaly any sort of unseelie fey one could think of.



Dont have truenaming per say. but hand out stuff like "The beast of Beri road can be pushed back be the sound of a birds death-cry" as rewards and such, not by any sort of class ability. The information about the local magical tree and the hunting down of the troll who knows the password could be a adventure unto itself.

I dig it all except the unseelie thing. I don't really like that distinction amongst fey (at least, not for this setting), and I'd rather avoid it.

On a related note, I JUST edited the Parallels post to include a lot more droning, and I address that very point!

Like I've said, I'm still really concerned about the nature of half-elves, and would love some feedback on it.

[Pokonic]

I dig it all except the unseelie thing. I don't really like that distinction amongst fey (at least, not for this setting), and I'd rather avoid it.

On a related note, I JUST edited the Parallels post to include a lot more droning, and I address that very point!

Like I've said, I'm still really concerned about the nature of half-elves, and would love some feedback on it.

1. Naw, I mean like evil fey that would not fit in with the currant elven realm you currantly had.


2. Half-Elves seem fine. Seems to me like there could be half-fey in the woodland communities due the the occasinal fling with some Troll with polymorph abilites and that half-elven are pretty much exclusive to the high nobility, yes?

[Zap Dynamic]

While I've got time, I'm going to undertake the massive job of classifying all of the classes in Gnorman's E6 Compendium (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215986).

Key:
Green is Gravy. This is a class I'm approving for PCs. They would make fine NPCs too.
Blue is a Bossibility. This is a class that would make for a good NPC, but should be taken with a big grain of salt for PCs.
Red is Rawful. For one reason or another, it just doesn't work.

Combat Classes
Brawler: The Classic Unarmed Combatant. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217041) It doesn't really fit the German Folklore side of things, but it does really fit the wuxia side of things. Overall, it's fine for a PC to be a Brawler, but it really ought to be rare.

Breathstealer: Sure.
Bruiser: A Dhalsim hand? Sorry, but no. Too wacky.
Cenobite: Everything but the teleportation is fine with me.
Martial Artist: Mmm, bread and butter. I like Martial Initiators a lot, and this is pretty typical Wuxia fair.
Ravager: I can picture characters that make use of this, but I feel it would make a much better Troll than anything.


Gladiator: The Classic Melee Striker. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217368) A-OK in my book. Kind of a weird name for the class as a whole, but no biggie.

Brute: Eh. Raging doesn't really mesh with the setting, but whatever. Would be more appropriate as a bandit than anything.
Kensei: Mmmmm, flavor. Initiator and a Fearless Knight? Sound like Prince Charming material.
Master-At-Arms: He is better than you at hitting things. Nothing wrong with that.
Pit Fighter: There's no place for the "pit fighter" flavor of this class, but mechanically he's just fine.
Vindicator: This guy would make a fine Spearwood Brother. Would also make a decent Sentinel. Would also make a decent Hunter.


The Hunter: The Classic Ranged Striker (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216763). Right on par.

Beastmaster: What a cool Hunter you would make.
Deadeye: What a cool Hunter you would make.
Peltast: What a cool Spearwood Brother you would make!
Sniper: What a cool Hunter you would make.
Stalker: What a cool Hunter you would make. :smalltongue:


The Sentinel: The Classic Melee Tank. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216098) Right on. A lot of these would suit a person from Koss very well.

Bastion: "Big Awesome Armored Guy" is pretty much the stereotypical view of Kossians in the Blackwood.
Gallant: Lots of potential for heroic self-sacrifices here. Bonus: you can survive them!
Juggernaut: I love the idea of pushing people around, I just think it would work better for a Troll than a human. Use sparingly.
Landsknecht: What a cool rendition of the Brick Wall. Bonus: It has a German name! Would make a good Spearwood Brother.
Praetorian: As a soldier that works best with a unit, this is a good Kossian. Would also make a fine Sentinel.


The Zealot: The Classic Melee Buffer. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=216635) Just dandy.

Avenger: An Initiator, and one tough mutha.
Cavalier: There really isn't space for combat on horseback in the Blackwood. Too many trees. Use sparingly.
Initiate: Not my favorite take on the "holy warrior." I'd prefer them to be able to turn at the cost of melee power, or vice versa. Ultimately not a big deal, but use sparingly.
Reaver: Nothing wrong with this class, but would make a much better villain, whether it's a bandit, an evil baron, or a Troll.
Templar: The Magekiller. This is much more in line with what I consider to be a "devout warrior."



Skilled Classes
The Engineer: The Alchemical/Mechanical Caster (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218278) is a cool role, but is exactly wrong for this setting. The Sawbones archetype comes close, but still no.
The Noble: The Charismatic Moneybags (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=221050)--often behind the scenes--is exactly who needs to be amongst the Riverfolk. Booyah.

Dilettante: A dedicated generalist. I wouldn't want to play it, but I think it's fine.
Duelist: I picture a lot of the well-to-do in the larger cities (and almost ALL of the well-to-do from Cerai) to be Duelists.
Patrician: The Forceful Diplomat is a very interesting character option. It reminds me of Tyrion from ASoIaF.
Tyrant: Obviously, this guy would make a great villain whether he's a bandit king or a corrupt politician with a retinue of guards. Except in rare circumstances, minions and henchmen should be humans.
Warchief: I'm glad to see the "Charismatic Combat Buffer" as a meager combatant. Lots of interesting potential here.


The Poet: The Artistic Buffer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=219290), with an interesting healer twist. I like it!

Banshee: I like this archetype a lot--especially when I think about those sonic attacks coming from instruments--and it's right on the edge of the kind of magic I think is appropriate in this setting.
Bravado: Ah, the two-handed, mobile warrior. Nothing wrong here.
Doomsinger: This is very cool. I picture the twin instrumentalists from Kung Fu Hustle. That last ability is really skirting the edge, but I'll allow it.
Skald: Maybe a little wild for my taste, but I like it. Would make a good brigand, backwoods dude, or pagan.
Trickster: Not a lot in the way of flavor here. As far as I'm concerned, that puts more fun in the hands of the player!

The Sage: The Knowledgeable Buffer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218255). Generally very cool; specifically very sketchy.

Caller: I haven't read much about vestiges, but it seems very close to the way I imagine divine magic working in my campaign.
Didact: Long story short, I need to read more about the mechanics behind this. Flavor-wise, it doesn't fit. Truenaming might be a thing in this setting, but it's not that powerful.
Occultist: Again, not crazy about this one. A little too high-magic. Could work in certain circumstances, but probably not.
Polyglot: Eh. It's a little too "evocationy" for my taste. The second ability is cool, though. Better as a villain than a PC.
Tactician: Super sweet. THIS is the kind of mechanic that I think should represent a bookworm that knows the weaknesses of all the magical beasts.


The Scoundrel: The Roguelike (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=217612). Welcome to Freeport, Herr Schmidt.

Cutthroat: Another Initiator, and an assassin. Ninja?
Phantom: A sneaky devil whose magic is very cleverly represented. I'm totally down.
Silencer: As assassiny as this looks, I actually think it would make a better witch. Your call.
Thief-Acrobat: This is the rogue who's so nimble as to be almost supernatural. Right on par with wuxia.
Umbral Scion: This really skirts a line. I need to do more reading on shadow magic to decide how I feel. Could be awesome; could be just on the wrong side of things.


Magic Classes:
Black Mage: The Dark Magic User. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215165) I wasn't expecting to like this, but it's not half bad for the setting. Most all of these would obviously be better as villains than good guys.

Demonologist: Really cool stuff. That first ability would have to be reworked in light of the Ritual Magic I'm planning on implementing, but it could still halve the casting time or something.
Hexer: Debilitators are fine in my book!
Necromancer: Definitely better as an NPC villain than a PC. Use sparingly.
Pestilent: I love the disease-spreading stuff. I don't like the rest. Use sparingly.
Zoid Cultist: In the proto-setting? Oh yes. In this one? Nah.


Blue Mage: The Bufferish/Seer Type (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215876). This guy is among the most appropriate from the magic classes.

Chronomancer: On the one hand, he could wreak exactly the kind of havoc that Elves are known for. On the other hand, I don't picture "time magic" as part of this setting. Use sparingly.
Hyperborean: The magic is a little too "visible" for my tastes. I also don't think the "cold" theme really fits, but it's your call. Use sparingly.
Mountebank: A charmer? okay!
Wayfarer: I'd like to reflavor the teleporting as Wuxia flying, but other than that it's just fine.
Weaver: An illusionist? Okay!


Green Mage: The Druidlike (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215432). As appropriate as it is for the setting, this is really the realm of the NPCs, not the PCs.

Chloromancer: Fine and dandy for an Elf or Half Elf. Use sparingly otherwise.
Elementalist: My one concession. The air stuff screams Wuxia, though I'm not into the elemental companion at all. Most likely found amongst the Spearwood Brotherhood.
Ophidian: Ugh, it's just fine... then you get to the dinosaur thing. Use sparingly, and discourage dinosaurs altogether.
Subterranean: Would be fine for a Kobold, but those aren't PCs. Use sparingly, if at all.
Wildling: Lycanthropes are more than welcome to use this. Otherwise it's just not the right fit.


Red Mage: The Gish (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215306). Very, very unlikely stuff here.

Chaos Child: I could see this being some crazy Elf, but in no other situation would I approve this.
Crimson Disciple: I've alluded to dragons once thus far, and I haven't decided if they really exist. Sorry, but no.
Magesmith: I like the magical smith thing a lot. I'm sure there's one of these guys somewhere in the Blackwood, but probably just the one.
Pyromancer: No fire dudes. Way too visible, and we don't have Smoky the Bear anyways.
Sand Shaper: This ain't no desert!


White Mage: The Healer (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=215538). THIS is the way the devout warrior should be handled.

Champion: Like I said, this is who the devout warrior should be.
Exorcist: I like it a lot. I've been toying around with how/if to include outsiders.
Healer: I think how much I like this guy depends on the individual player. Toning down the "activity" of the magic is key.
Mystic: It's hard to be an angel in training when there are probably not any actual angels.
Oracle: Oh my goodness yes.



Psionic Classes
I will say right now that I'm really torn about these. I don't think they're appropriate at all, but a lot of people associate them with Wuxia type stuff. In this case, Blue means more "I'm on the fence," than "I'm okay with this...but just for NPCs." One thing is for certain: no crystals. Look forward to reskinning that stuff.
The Aspirant: The Psychic Warrior. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12494055)

Animus: Magic is too visible.
Atavist: Would make a nice template for a Troll.
Pugilist: This might be the more appropriate of all the unarmed warrior archetypes.
Tempest: Mobile warrior with fancy moves. That's all right.
Warden: The magic is too visible.

The Empath: The Mind-er (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227504). This could be a cool zen-type character, except for the telepathy thing. All the cherry blossoms are perfect, blah blah.

Abhorrent: Subtle magic, fear-based effects. This guy could make a very good pagan or cultist or something.
Mentalist: Another charmer? OK!
Precognitive: Another seer? I'm into it.
Superegoist: A... mind...melder? All right.
Walker: Hmm... a dreamwalker? I'd like the idea better if they walked through the Land of the Dead or something, but they can do that through their dreams easy enough. DMs: it's in your hands.

The Esoteric: The Psionic Cleric (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227741). I think I'm okay with most of what's going on here.

Anchorite: Healer-type. I dig it.
Apostate: I'd like it better if the magic were more subtle. Reskinning might fix this.
Demiurge: An interesting class. I don't like the ectoplasmic stuff, but that's what reskinning is for.
Sympathetic: Another interesting option. Might make for a nice Aikido-type warrior.
Transcendant: Kind of a psychic tank? I'm okay with that.


The Kinetic: The Mind Do-er (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227628). Not a lot here.

Architect: I don't like constructs in this setting.
Energetic: Magic is WAY too visible.
Gravitic: Magic is still too visible.
Telephasm: The magic might not be too "visible," but it's not appropriate for the setting.
Transmigrant: I'm okay with this except for the teleportation thing. Needs to be reskinned.


The Subliminal: The Mind Sneak (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228174). I don't have much of a problem with this one.

Deadmind: Flavor-wise, there is no room for telepathy in this world. Mechanically, I could see it.
Operative: That crowning ability to starting to get very Elf-like. Otherwise, a very nice archetype.
Razor: I don't know what a "metaphysical weapon" is, but this is tentatively okay. If it's like a Soul Blade or whatever, then no.
Trueshot: I don't like the visibility of the magic, and it would be easier to play a hunter than to reskin it.
Untouchable: Fairy tales and folklore both seem to be full of lucky rogues.



As you can tell, this is not necessarily a low-magic setting. I'd like to think of it more as an "invisible magic" setting.

[Zap Dynamic]

2. Half-Elves seem fine. Seems to me like there could be half-fey in the woodland communities due the the occasinal fling with some Troll with polymorph abilites and that half-elven are pretty much exclusive to the high nobility, yes?


That could be the way it works. I don't know how I like the idea of Trolls and humans interbreeding. Trolls (as I picture them) are too big for it either way, and humans would find it repulsive at best.

As far as the prevalence of Half-Elves is concerned, it would be a big. deal. if you knew a Half-Elf. There may be more instances where Elves (or even Trolls... I haven't decided if they can reproduce at all) pull a changeling (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changeling) on someone, though it's more likely that the Changeling will be of the "swapped log" variety.

[Wyntonian]

The more I read about this, the more I think our settings should be linked. Same world, different continents? Not particularly aware of each other?

I could see a "well, you're kings of Patria/The Blackwood, how about you set sail for that mythical land across the sea?" sort of end-game campaign.

There's just so much that's shared that I can't really see us not taking advantage of it.

[Eldest]

:smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

I like that idea. A lot.
For Gnorman's classes (they're spreading, MWAHAHAHA!!!), I notice a few of them are marked as "maybe, for a troll". Could you just add that as a racial requirement in your setting, for those particular archetypes.

[Zap Dynamic]

The more I read about this, the more I think our settings should be linked. Same world, different continents? Not particularly aware of each other?

I could see a "well, you're kings of Patria/The Blackwood, how about you set sail for that mythical land across the sea?" sort of end-game campaign.

There's just so much that's shared that I can't really see us not taking advantage of it.

Dealio. Since the cultures have been separated by 2000 or so years (and maybe as many miles) it would be easy to say that they're on the same planet.

More and more, my plan is to flesh out what's left of this continent. I'm thinking about probably 3-4 more cultures. It will be awhile, but I think this is a good deal.


For Gnorman's classes (they're spreading, MWAHAHAHA!!!), I notice a few of them are marked as "maybe, for a troll". Could you just add that as a racial requirement in your setting, for those particular archetypes.

They're spreading because they're awesome! I liked all of them, but some just didn't fit the setting well enough. As for the racial requirement, it would be an easy thing to do, but that note was more for the DMs that run campaigns in the setting. I'm a big fan of reskinning/repurposing monsters and races/classes for whatever I need, and I could see rolling up a human with insane strength bonuses, terrible intelligence, and a few levels in those classes and dubbing that a "troll."

[Grinner]

For the Didact, you'll want to require Truenaming checks to be made at 15+(1.5 * CR). I'm running a game at the moment where the Didact has stacked his Truenaming bonus to +18 at level 6, meaning he nearly succeeds automatically against creatures of a CR equivalent to his level. And he didn't even take advantage a few more optimizations.

[Eldest]

There may be a hidden post here. Now, would you be opposed to having a semi-mythical Witch? The idea originally came from a comic series called Fable, which I suggest you look as it has a very good take on different fairy tales. An example would be Prince Charming has been divorced three times and lives off what he can get out of various women.

[Pokonic]

As for the issue of troll-on-humie mateing, it could be mostly a Hag thing. As in, "Mortal wanders in one of the darker glades of the woods, finds a cute girl, has a minor fling, and then wakes up a few days later without recolection of the past few days" if the hag is of the sort who does not eat her mortal compainons. A little more than a year later, a baby girl with strange disposition is found on the doorstep of a elderly couple who leaves little loafs of bread for the animals, and the resulting lass is later found to have a natural nack at magic that makes every recruter for miles try to get her into The Elder Kingdom as the next big thing. Or something.

Alternetivly, while most Trolls are born that way, some humans naturaly come to enjoy the darkish primal energy they tend to have, and as such eventualy come to be the stuff of fairy-tales. Presumably, these troll-acendents could come in a way as a prestige class that has them slowly becomeing more monster-like as its life goes on, picking from several tables for powers as it levels up. Strangly, half-trolls or those with trollish blood usualy never go on such a path, perhapes because they are already somewhat inbued with the energy that makes a troll a troll and has little ability or reason to make the sudden changes that make up a troll acendents clime.

Neverless, there are both half-trolls and those who become trolls, and of course pure trolls themselves. Of course, there are also those fey who have fallen so far, like the ever-feared Firbolg, that seem to be weakened elves who seem to unable to retreat to there lands, and are twisted by it. Then again, there are those that have been noted to simply be more lucid and legendary than others that seem to be more in line with true, malevolent fey. These horrors are more than mear hags and ogres, and the fables about them are few and terrible, and all point to some seething pit in the realm of the fey, where even there amoral kin fear to dwell apon for too long. Those "Formorins" are, rather than simply treating humans with a sence of whimsy, treat them like toys. And, much like a angry toddler, they like to smash and break there toys. Neverless, they are still elves, nothing more, but are perhapes more like a troll than what could live up to what could be called the standered for such a varied race.

[Zap Dynamic]

There may be a hidden post here. Now, would you be opposed to having a semi-mythical Witch?

What do you mean by "semi-mythical"? Like, a figure who "they say" lives out in the woods, but there's never been any evidence? That's right on par!


As for the issue of troll-on-humie mateing, it could be mostly a Hag thing. As in, "Mortal wanders in one of the darker glades of the woods, finds a cute girl, has a minor fling, and then wakes up a few days later without recolection of the past few days" if the hag is of the sort who does not eat her mortal compainons. A little more than a year later, a baby girl with strange disposition is found on the doorstep of a elderly couple who leaves little loafs of bread for the animals, and the resulting lass is later found to have a natural nack at magic that makes every recruter for miles try to get her into The Elder Kingdom as the next big thing. Or something.

Alternetivly, while most Trolls are born that way, some humans naturaly come to enjoy the darkish primal energy they tend to have, and as such eventualy come to be the stuff of fairy-tales. Presumably, these troll-acendents could come in a way as a prestige class that has them slowly becomeing more monster-like as its life goes on, picking from several tables for powers as it levels up. Strangly, half-trolls or those with trollish blood usualy never go on such a path, perhapes because they are already somewhat inbued with the energy that makes a troll a troll and has little ability or reason to make the sudden changes that make up a troll acendents clime.

Neverless, there are both half-trolls and those who become trolls, and of course pure trolls themselves. Of course, there are also those fey who have fallen so far, like the ever-feared Firbolg, that seem to be weakened elves who seem to unable to retreat to there lands, and are twisted by it. Then again, there are those that have been noted to simply be more lucid and legendary than others that seem to be more in line with true, malevolent fey. These horrors are more than mear hags and ogres, and the fables about them are few and terrible, and all point to some seething pit in the realm of the fey, where even there amoral kin fear to dwell apon for too long. Those "Formorins" are, rather than simply treating humans with a sence of whimsy, treat them like toys. And, much like a angry toddler, they like to smash and break there toys. Neverless, they are still elves, nothing more, but are perhapes more like a troll than what could live up to what could be called the standered for such a varied race.

This shows a lot of good creativity! And there's actually something like the Hag stuff already present in the world with the Huldras and Maras (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_folklore#Beings_of_Scandinavian_folkl ore) (they're in the "female creatures" section of that link, just a little ways down the page). In a nutshell, Huldras are dryad/nymph figures that tempt men into the woods for sex. If the guys don't please the Huldra, she might kill them. I could see this being one of the ways that Half-Elves are born. Maras, on the other hand, are born of human women who undergo a strange ritual (you really should read it, but I won't get into it here). All girls born by the woman after this ritual become female werewolves, which is another sort of Half-Elf origin... albeit without the Elf part.

I'm still not sold on Trolls being sexually compatible with humans. The more I think about it, the more I think they ought to be a completely separate, older race, instead of being another variation of the Elves.

Another problem I'm running into is that I'm restricting myself to Germanic mythology, which means I can't use firbolgs, hags, ogres, or formorins.

----

While I'm posting, check this out (http://www.korpg.com/blog/elsewhere/)! We got a pretty cool tip of the hat from one of the very guys who inspired me to make this setting! By golly!

He presents an interesting solution to a problem that I hadn't even put into words yet. In my attempts to get to the roots of folklore etc., I've been really loath to include planes, and when I have I've been really loath to call them "planes." I also didn't really want to use terms like "coexistent." I made a compromise because that's the common parlance amongst players today, but I don't think I need to do that. There's no problem with saying "The Land of the Dead is somewhere else," rather than saying "The Land of the Dead is another plane." The characters in the setting don't think in those terms, so why should I present the information to players in those terms?

He's also made me start to rethink The Wild Hunt. In Germanic myth, the Hunt is often said to carry people off to the land of the dead, but it doesn't often say where it comes from. In fact, sometimes the leader of the Hunt is a god like Odin, and sometimes (not in Germanic myth, but still) its actually a fey king of some kind.

Maybe instead of the Wild Hunt being a strictly "Dead" thing, it is instead a third entity. It's "wild." It's made up of Elves and The Dead, and it goes where it pleases. Hmm...

Thanks, KORPG!

[korpg]

While I'm posting, check this out (http://www.korpg.com/blog/elsewhere/)! We got a pretty cool tip of the hat from one of the very guys who inspired me to make this setting! By golly!

Thanks, KORPG!

You're quite welcome. To be honest, I find the setting very rich in good inspirational material.

That and I honestly couldn't help myself in taking my own stab at an overlay of a thematic "elsewhere."

[Pokonic]

This shows a lot of good creativity!

Why, thank you!:smallsmile:


This shows a lot of good creativity! And there's actually something like the Hag stuff already present in the world with the Huldras and Maras (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavian_folklore#Beings_of_Scandinavian_folkl ore) (they're in the "female creatures" section of that link, just a little ways down the page). In a nutshell, Huldras are dryad/nymph figures that tempt men into the woods for sex. If the guys don't please the Huldra, she might kill them. I could see this being one of the ways that Half-Elves are born. Maras, on the other hand, are born of human women who undergo a strange ritual (you really should read it, but I won't get into it here). All girls born by the woman after this ritual become female werewolves, which is another sort of Half-Elf origin... albeit without the Elf part.

Ah, sounds well, sound. If you ever have any issues finding fey to fit in with the world, I suggest scrounging up on Dicefreak's stuff. Always good to bing on there older stuff. Also,Werefolk: I think that its obvius that the DnD modal is usless in discribing classical accounts of wiches and such transforming others or themselves into animal shapes, so that could be addressed.


I'm still not sold on Trolls being sexually compatible with humans. The more I think about it, the more I think they ought to be a completely separate, older race, instead of being another variation of the Elves.

Well, crikey, I would not think Dragons are compatable with humans, but apparently Polymorph is the name of the game. :smalltongue: Anyway, still would like to have the occasinal forest adoptie turn out to have something primal in there blood. Perhapes your general female fey gives away her most normal-looking offspring as part of old, magical deals with woodland folk? Think of the PC's surpise when they learn that the local foundlings real father is not some staggering archfey, but rather Glomgug the Horse-Eater. :smallbiggrin:

Also, with non-germen creatures: Its a big map, and other peoples have other tales. Just because they dont show up in that area does not mean that Baba Yaga does not haunt the stories of the Koss and such. Other regions have such exclusive Troll-kinds as well.


There's no problem with saying "The Land of the Dead is somewhere else," rather than saying "The Land of the Dead is another plane." The characters in the setting don't think in those terms, so why should I present the information to players in those terms?

Well, some tales have heros going to the Lands Of The Dead to rescue maidens and such. In all, you should not have to conform to standered DnD logic, considering no one in this setting thinks "Hey, if I get that Amulent of Plot Cheese, I could go anywere!" Sometimes the Fairyland is just Fairyland.

Also, Wild Hunt= Displaced Elves and the spirits of the worthy woodland-folk who appease the fey in general. Presumably, unworthy souls are turned into there rabid hounds.

Also, wiches are ether fey-blooded are trollish adopties who learned from mama well.

[Eldest]

What do you mean by "semi-mythical"? Like, a figure who "they say" lives out in the woods, but there's never been any evidence? That's right on par!

I actually meant one Witch. As in, there are many myths and legends about a Witch in various forests and places, but really it's one witch in many places. Who's very, very strong.

[Grinner]

I actually meant one Witch. As in, there are many myths and legends about a Witch in various forests and places, but really it's one witch in many places. Who's very, very strong.

Sounds like Baba Yaga to me.

[Pokonic]

I actually meant one Witch. As in, there are many myths and legends about a Witch in various forests and places, but really it's one witch in many places. Who's very, very strong.

Shove her up north and give her a very special hut, and call her the final NPC the party will ever meet. :smallbiggrin:

[Zap Dynamic]

I actually meant one Witch. As in, there are many myths and legends about a Witch in various forests and places, but really it's one witch in many places. Who's very, very strong.

I don't have anything like that in the setting right now, but it's a cool possibility. Just to make sure I'm understanding you correctly, you're not precluding the possibility of other witches? In other words, it's okay if every village has a witch (they won't all have their own witch, but for the sake of argument), but there are still a handful of tales that tell of these really powerful witches. The stories all point to different places, but all of those places are inhabited simultaneously by just one witch? One that is free to ignore the laws of physics?

[Landis963]

Not necessarily simultaneously. Teleport would work just fine. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheLittleShopThatWasntThereYesterday)

WARNING: TvTropes link.

[Eldest]

I don't have anything like that in the setting right now, but it's a cool possibility. Just to make sure I'm understanding you correctly, you're not precluding the possibility of other witches? In other words, it's okay if every village has a witch (they won't all have their own witch, but for the sake of argument), but there are still a handful of tales that tell of these really powerful witches. The stories all point to different places, but all of those places are inhabited simultaneously by just one witch? One that is free to ignore the laws of physics?

Yes. Exactly it. Not teleportation, or at least not really teleportation, actual bilocation. And the One True Witch would take offense at any others claiming the title, as they are mere novices in the mysteries of the true art.
I'd suggest making her an Epic challange, if you statted her out, and maybe having her be one of the corrupted First People from Wyn's setting, if you have the settings coincide.

[korpg]

I don't have anything like that in the setting right now, but it's a cool possibility. Just to make sure I'm understanding you correctly, you're not precluding the possibility of other witches? In other words, it's okay if every village has a witch (they won't all have their own witch, but for the sake of argument), but there are still a handful of tales that tell of these really powerful witches. The stories all point to different places, but all of those places are inhabited simultaneously by just one witch? One that is free to ignore the laws of physics?

I may be missing something, but why bother to codify it for now?
Is there some inherent benefit to drawing limitations on your creation at this stage or would it make more sense to simply let this feature evolve naturally?

Basically, why declare it and take the mystery away when you have the opportunity to make it something akin to the flood legend?

Simply state that there are legends and tales of a powerful, iconic witch spoken in hushed tones in every town in every culture. Though the tales are all similar, whether they all speak of a single entity or not is never quite clear. At times the old Crone is beneficial, at others she is vengeful and malicious. But all hearth-stories agree that she is a powerful being whose knowledge of magic far exceeds even that of the fey.

Something like that.

[Grinner]

I may be missing something, but why bother to codify it for now?
Is there some inherent benefit to drawing limitations on your creation at this stage or would it make more sense to simply let this feature evolve naturally?

Basically, why declare it and take the mystery away when you have the opportunity to make it something akin to the flood legend?

Simply state that there are legends and tales of a powerful, iconic witch spoken in hushed tones in every town in every culture. Though the tales are all similar, whether they all speak of a single entity or not is never quite clear. At times the old Crone is beneficial, at others she is vengeful and malicious. But all hearth-stories agree that she is a powerful being whose knowledge of magic far exceeds even that of the fey.

Something like that.

It's always nice when you know where you're going, and the details don't have to be made absolute now.

[Zap Dynamic]

I may be missing something, but why bother to codify it for now?
Is there some inherent benefit to drawing limitations on your creation at this stage or would it make more sense to simply let this feature evolve naturally?

Basically, why declare it and take the mystery away when you have the opportunity to make it something akin to the flood legend?

Simply state that there are legends and tales of a powerful, iconic witch spoken in hushed tones in every town in every culture. Though the tales are all similar, whether they all speak of a single entity or not is never quite clear. At times the old Crone is beneficial, at others she is vengeful and malicious. But all hearth-stories agree that she is a powerful being whose knowledge of magic far exceeds even that of the fey.

Something like that.

I agree, and this is another way to cleave to the ideal of Vagueness that I mentioned in the opening posts. From the perspective of the creator of this world, I like the idea of leaving a heavy dose of mystery in the setting. It may seem like laziness because I'm not troubling myself to hammer out all of the mechanics behind something, but really that's exactly the way that myth and fairy tale goes. By purposefully leaving out details, I'm keeping the setting closer in touch with its inspiration.

Similarly, it gives the GMs a lot of agency when it comes to running a game, and it helps to enforce the mystery for the players. At a table where people switch out GMing, there might be one GM who decides that all of these witch legends point to the same bilocational figure, while another decides that they're all siblings, and yet another decides that they're entirely fictional. Even if the same group of players plays through each of these scenarios, it will be a new experience for them every time, thanks to the inherent "gray area" in the presentation of the material.

I'm going to be reworking a lot of the fluff on this stuff over the next several days. My intention is to eliminate the set-in-stone mechanical fact of the description, and elaborate on the fuzzy possibility of the flavor-text. As an example, I've got this idea to give every monstrous "race" at least three different templates. Take the Huldra, for example: I'll supply stats that are exactly like the Nymph, exactly like the Dryad, and (I think) there are stats for an actual Huldra floating around here somewhere. GMs can choose to use just one of them, alternate every time, or whatever they'd like. Players may come to expect certain things about the creatures, but there's still room for surprise, and I think surprise is an important thing to foster in this game.

[korpg]

I agree, and this is another way to cleave to the ideal of Vagueness that I mentioned in the opening posts. From the perspective of the creator of this world, I like the idea of leaving a heavy dose of mystery in the setting. It may seem like laziness because I'm not troubling myself to hammer out all of the mechanics behind something, but really that's exactly the way that myth and fairy tale goes. By purposefully leaving out details, I'm keeping the setting closer in touch with its inspiration.

Similarly, it gives the GMs a lot of agency when it comes to running a game, and it helps to enforce the mystery for the players. At a table where people switch out GMing, there might be one GM who decides that all of these witch legends point to the same bilocational figure, while another decides that they're all siblings, and yet another decides that they're entirely fictional. Even if the same group of players plays through each of these scenarios, it will be a new experience for them every time, thanks to the inherent "gray area" in the presentation of the material.

I'm going to be reworking a lot of the fluff on this stuff over the next several days. My intention is to eliminate the set-in-stone mechanical fact of the description, and elaborate on the fuzzy possibility of the flavor-text.

Since one of your design desires is to introduce that mystery, I think removal of mechanics for a variety of things is a great way to go about it.

Always remember that as soon as you add stats to something/someone, many players will see those stats as a challenge to be overcome.

[Landis963]

Always remember that as soon as you add stats to something/someone, many players will see those stats as a challenge to be overcome.

Who says the PCs need to know about the stats? If this ever gets into a campaign, he could frame it like Miko's curbstomp of the Order all the way back in No Cure For The Paladin Blues - perfectly legal according to the rules, but without going into any detail. If he's lucky, they might even consider the Wicked Witch of the Woods just an insurmountable plot device.

[Zap Dynamic]

Landis, I don't follow that. Could you link to the strip you're talking about?

[Landis963]

Sure. Pertinent OoTS comic here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0251.html) and relevant Giant comments here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=291639&postcount=489)

Assume for the sake of argument that our hypothetical PC group never got to see the level of detail given in the second link.

[Zap Dynamic]

Thanks for the links, Landis. I understand where you're coming from now. You asked "Who says the PCs need to know about the stats?" I think the point is that if there are stats available to be read in this thread, then that creates the situation where the players will view things as challenges.

There are pros and cons to keeping all mechanical/crunchy/stat-related things out of this setting handbook. On the one hand, leaving all statistical information out of the book will deepen that sense of mystery for the players. On the other hand, if I don't publish stats or much mechanical goodness, then the chances of anyone else running a campaign in this world are slim to none. Personally, I don't think people often use other people's settings anyway, so maybe that's not such a big deal.

As for my own approach, I think that what I'm going to do is to start converting the stuff into fluffy things, hiding all but the essential mechanics (classes, factions, etc.) offline for a while. I want to put together and run an Adventure Path in this world, and after I've lead players through that, I'll publish all the "behind the scenes" stuff, so other people can play it on their own, if they'd like.

I've already started the process of making everything fluffier. In the OPs, I'm slowly changing everything to "in character" writing (check the Races section for the first example). I've also started a blog, where I will be posting repurposed and/or original folklore that's designed to provide a backdrop for the setting. As of now, I've got a list of 19 tales to write up, and the first one is already finished and posted: The Riverman and the Woodsman (http://undertheboughs.wordpress.com/2012/02/26/the-riverman-and-the-woodsman/), a twist on the fable of the town mouse and country mouse.

[Zap Dynamic]

I've completed a second story! This is all about the Wild Hunt (http://undertheboughs.wordpress.com/2012/02/28/the-wild-hunt/). How does everyone feel about this amount of information for these stories? As I'm writing them, I'm trying to give very vague hints about how the mechanics might be handled in these situations (if mechanics are relevant), as well as supply a few plot hooks.

I've also started collecting these stories in a spoiler called "Tales" in the "And its People" post on the first page. The next story will be a cautionary tale about encountering Hollowbacks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huldra)!

[Eldest]

I enjoy the stories, and they do very well to set the tone. The reason I haven't posted often is that A) I have been really busy, and haven't had time to read all your stuff yet, and B) I am unable to help a lot with the setting. You seem to have it very well in hand.

[Landis963]

Would I be incorrect in thinking that
the old woman that cursed Eckhart is the theorized Wicked Witch of the Woods?

[Zap Dynamic]

That's exactly right! She's got her own story coming up sometime soon.

My plan is to take the clues needed to do great things (like reach the Land of the Dead) and sprinkle them throughout several different tales. Theoretically, each tale would comprise a plot arc.

I've also been persuaded by a friend to turn the story of Eckhart into a epic. I think it's a great idea, but I'm trying to decide if I should write it and use it as a tale, or run a campaign based on the storyline, THEN write it. If I write it beforehand, it will basically be a manual for how to get to the Land of the Dead and back, and I'm not sure I like the idea of that being readily available all in one location.

[Zap Dynamic]

Thoughts on Magic:

I've been thinking about magic and its relationship to this setting.

On the one hand, I think that I would be a fool to say that this setting is "nonmagical." Clearly, there's magic all up in this. On the other hand, I want to keep it very Low Magic. I don't want people running around performing miracles and hurtling fireballs willy-nilly, because that just doesn't happen in fairy tales (at least not from the protagonists' side), and a lot of the decisions I've made so far have reflected that. Using E6 has placed a very real cap on the kinds of power that can be accessed and mastered, and beyond that I've gone so far as to limit classes that I think are "too evocation-y."

I thought about removing magic classes as PC options entirely, but I stopped myself. It may be the case that there are no real magic users as protagonists in fairy tales, but likewise there are very rarely fairy tales that involve an entire party going pursuing a goal. Of course, there are exceptions. The Golden Bird (http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~spok/grimmtmp/046.txt) is a good example of at least two people (the boy and the magical fox) trying to accomplish something together, and I would entertain the idea of a party that looks similar. Maybe the "fox" in this case is really a human spellcaster who was polymorphed as a curse or something, but retains all of the ability scores/class features he had in life.

That said, I still want to be open to the idea of a regular old spellcaster in the party. I want to make a few things clear, though:

That spellcaster will be 1:100,000. People will think he's a freak or a demon worshipper, especially as he grows more powerful.
In light of the first point, the spellcaster would do well to find a way to to remain useful to the party while in "public." Using the fullness of his abilities in a haunted castle is one thing, but he's going to have to find a way to remain relevant back at the village without getting lynched.
The spell progression charts may be abolished. I really like the idea of spellcasters being able to cast whatever spell they want whenever they want to, so long as they find the spell somewhere and have the material components. Are you a 1st-level caster? You can cast a 9th level spell, but you're going to have to learn the spell somehow (quest to find it written down somewhere), and also find the materials required (likely another quest).


I don't consider this to be a detriment to the spellcaster. Like I said, if they learn a 9th level spell and they have enough components, they could cast it all day every day for all I care. Also, I see this as an opportunity for the party to create their own quests, so to speak. "Oh," they say. "We could bring down the evil Lord with [spell x], but we don't have the materials." Perfect opportunity for a quest! Handled the right way, such a quest could be seamlessly blended into the plot arc, so it seems like this is the most logical course of action. I like that idea.

On another note, the more I read about them, the more I like the idea of Binders and Vestiges. That fits in perfectly with an idea I have for "pagan magic," but tweak it just a little bit and it looks almost exactly how I envision "Oath Magic" working.

In my mind, you can get magical power a few different ways in this setting:

Deal with the Elves (HUGE double-edged sword potential here)
Commune with ancient spirits (highly frowned-upon by organized religion)
Dedicate yourself to a "focus of magic."


In the first case, you'd find an Elf, make a deal with them, and they would perform whatever magic you require. In the second case, you could be communing with the spirit of an ancient wizard, some demon, or even nature itself. This is probably the most broad of the three in terms of flavor.

In the third case, you choose some extant thing and draw power from that. For instance, I imagine that somewhere in Grand Delving, there's an order of magic users that are utterly devoted to the Elder King, and actually draw their magical power from that devotion. It's something like the "latent power in the blood of Kings" trope considered a little more broadly. There are other ways you could access this sort of power, though I can't think of any off the top of my head.

Thoughts?

[Wyntonian]

If you're interested in using binders, I refluffed a bunch of homebrewed vestiges from the WotC boards for Patria, and aside from little things ("this guy was a Vallheim warrior", "This was a gambler from the Dotze Affariata"), most of them are at about the right magic-level for the Blackwood, too. Feel free to steal them, if they fit.

[Eldest]

I would suggest that instead of saying this setting is low magic, say the magic is low visibility. So there are still mages, and powerful ones at that, but the magic is subtle. This is basically a way of rephrasing what you have already decided on.

[Zap Dynamic]

If you're interested in using binders, I refluffed a bunch of homebrewed vestiges from the WotC boards for Patria, and aside from little things ("this guy was a Vallheim warrior", "This was a gambler from the Dotze Affariata"), most of them are at about the right magic-level for the Blackwood, too. Feel free to steal them, if they fit.

I like what I'm reading, but I don't have access to ToM right now. What's the nature of a Binder's spell progression? In other words, if I only allow characters to get up to 6th level, will they only be able to access 3rd level Vestiges? Of course, I'm willing to let them attempt to bind anything they want and know about (passing the DC is another matter), I'm just curious what kind of limits we're talking about.


I would suggest that instead of saying this setting is low magic, say the magic is low visibility. So there are still mages, and powerful ones at that, but the magic is subtle. This is basically a way of rephrasing what you have already decided on.

That makes a lot of sense. The world definitely has a lot of magic, but there's only very rarely a whizz-bang effect.

Here's my idea as it's developing: there is no shortage of "conjurers of cheap tricks" in the cities, and there are a few very powerful casters in the world (maybe 1...sometimes 2 for each class), and not much of a middle ground. Figures like the Witch in the Woods will be one of those very powerful casters, and your average backwoods healer/witch is an example of the former.

[Zap Dynamic]

Aaand, I finished another tale! This is a little long, but it contains all you ever wanted to know about Hollowbacks (http://undertheboughs.wordpress.com/2012/02/29/the-hollowback/)! Coincidentally, this is one of my favorite creatures from Germanic folklore thus far.

[Pokonic]

Huh. So, was the baby a half-elf, troll-something, or mearly a strong ,healthy human boy?

[Zap Dynamic]

Huh. So, was the baby a half-elf, troll-something, or mearly a strong ,healthy human boy?

With the new(ish) direction I'm headed towards, that's the kind of thing that I want to leave up to each individual GM to decide. I have my own ideas, but if I write them down it eliminates some of the mystery that I'm trying to create.

[Zap Dynamic]

Sometimes I've noticed that new pages don't always show up when posts kick over to them. Strange.

[korpg]

One thing you could do to keep the power scope low (from the PC viewpoint) is move anything over a given "level" of magic power into a ritual instead of a simple "spell".

Rituals would be used to entreat magical creatures or objects to help do the bidding of the spellcaster in major magic.

[Landis963]

With the new(ish) direction I'm headed towards, that's the kind of thing that I want to leave up to each individual GM to decide. I have my own ideas, but if I write them down it eliminates some of the mystery that I'm trying to create.

Why couldn't the boy be Eckhart? His origins would be probably kept a secret, so that a DM could pick and choose as he would, and he might switch his origins between "just human" and "half-elf" depending on what serves him the best in the situation. Besides, tell me if I'm wrong, but Eckhart's exploits would be shrouded in myth anyway, leaving this perfect opening.

[Zap Dynamic]

That's a great idea! I think any GM would be more than welcome to include something like that in their own take on the world, but of course I wouldn't add it to the canon.

The further I travel down this Grognard-inspired road, the more I realize how much potential there is for customization, and how that's so much cooler than meticulously accounting everything the world could possibly offer. I feel like--to a certain point--it makes the world more marketable, too. Instead of saying "This is the Way It Is, and woe betide all those who should seek to alter it," I'm saying something like "Here's an idea I had; how can you build on it?"

I like it.

[Wyntonian]

I like what I'm reading, but I don't have access to ToM right now. What's the nature of a Binder's spell progression? In other words, if I only allow characters to get up to 6th level, will they only be able to access 3rd level Vestiges? Of course, I'm willing to let them attempt to bind anything they want and know about (passing the DC is another matter), I'm just curious what kind of limits we're talking about.


Well, Binders don't get spells. If they get to 6th level, they can bind one vestige of 3rd level or below at a time, can suppress the signs if they made a good pact, can get some dinky little bonuses, a bonus feat from an EXTREMELY limited list, and get immunity to fear while bound to a vestige.

Up to 6th, they get vestiges of 1/2 their binder level, rounded up. Levels 1-2, they get 1st, 3-4, they get second, etc. I'd recommend an epic feat to let them bind a 4th level vestige, just because some of them are cool.

Also, I'll be honest, binders are one of my favorite classes to play, sometimes more so when they bomb a binding check and you need to rp out the effects of being possessed by a fallen angel, greedy dwarven king or some other stuff. It's actually a lot of fun.

[Zap Dynamic]

Now that I've taken a look at the book (cool stuff, btw) let's crunch some numbers.

The highest level a character can reach in E6 is, obviously, 6. Let's assume someone was lucky enough to get a 20 on their Int (the key stat for the Sage->Caller), and by level 6 they manage to increase that to 26 through various means. That gives them a +8 on their Int score.

A Binding Check is as follows:

1d20+Level+Int (with Int replacing the Cha used by normal Binders)

At 6th level, with a +8 to Int, they'll be able to roll a maximum of 34 on their Binding check. Just looking at the book, that would allow them to theoretically bind an 8th level Vestige. So long as they can find out about the Vestige, I don't think I mind them being able to do this. It's a very long shot, especially when the GM will have control over which Vestiges are available (as for myself, I think I might set up something like a d% table to determine things like that, giving some helpful/relevant Vestiges a better chance of being discovered).

Above all, I want to carve a different mold for the way casters are played. I want to emphasize the "power comes as a product of knowledge and experience" aspect of magic, and the idea of making the characters go hunting for that knowledge and/or experience is something I want to play with. Of course, I'll want to playtest this before I finalize any of it.

[Eldest]

So there will never be a place where you can buy magic spells. Only individual spells from quests and bargins...
I LIKE.
I know what I'm going to play as if I play a game in this world.

[Pokonic]

I wonder.... could you trace every witch and wizard's education's to a select few powerful figures who decided to take on apprentences?

[Zap Dynamic]

So there will never be a place where you can buy magic spells. Only individual spells from quests and bargins...
I LIKE.
I know what I'm going to play as if I play a game in this world.

That's right. There may be "exotic" shops in the larger cities, but they'll sell things like jewelry and house decorations. If you want to buy a magic hoodad from someone, you'll have to deal with a witch, the hoodad probably won't be all that cool, and you'll have to pay with something more dear than money.

If you want the Legendary Blade of Hero's Heights, you'll have to pass through the Legendary Ten Gauntlets to get it. If you want to learn Fireball... you're going to have to find it on a page in the ruins of Deadhollow. That sort of thing.


I wonder.... could you trace every witch and wizard's education's to a select few powerful figures who decided to take on apprentences?

That's sort of the way I'm picturing it. For most of the classes, there is only one figure who's really powerful, while most stick to the lower half of the spectrum. For casters, there might only be one of each in the entire Blackwood, depending on the class.

[Pokonic]

That's sort of the way I'm picturing it. For most of the classes, there is only one figure who's really powerful, while most stick to the lower half of the spectrum. For casters, there might only be one of each in the entire Blackwood, depending on the class.


Hmm, so, would our hypothetical witch/hag/sage (lets call her Baba) be able to teach others "learned" magic while the varying half-breeds could be able to channel there inherent energy with sorcery?

[Zap Dynamic]

Hmm, so, would our hypothetical witch/hag/sage (lets call her Baba) be able to teach others "learned" magic while the varying half-breeds could be able to channel there inherent energy with sorcery?


The only beings that I picture having "inherent" magical power are Elves and spirits. If you're not an Elf, you can learn magic either by discovering a spell that an elf has written down ("learned" as you say), or make a deal with something that does have inherent power, and serve as a funnel of sort for that entity.

[Zap Dynamic]

I'm in the process of writing the next bit of folklore for the setting. This one is a step in a different direction, as it focuses on the encroaching nation of Cerai and their religion, the Unified.

As a teaser, I picture the Unified to be much like a proselytizing, dogmatic Christianity from the Middle Ages. The two most important elements of their god, Mareal Turi, are sight and sound, represented in the Shrines (read: cathedrals) by the light that streams through their colored-glass windows and the music that comes from their many bells. In my mind, priests of the Unified carry bells with them to remind all people of the presence of Mareal. They may also serve as foci, should a priest be sent on a mission to cleanse a place from the presence of demons. I picture something like this (http://images.wikia.com/pathfinder/images/4/4b/Channel_energy.jpg), but with a big sound wave instead of a beam of light.

[Pokonic]

I'm in the process of writing the next bit of folklore for the setting. This one is a step in a different direction, as it focuses on the encroaching nation of Cerai and their religion, the Unified.

As a teaser, I picture the Unified to be much like a proselytizing, dogmatic Christianity from the Middle Ages. The two most important elements of their god, Mareal Turi, are sight and sound, represented in the Shrines (read: cathedrals) by the light that streams through their colored-glass windows and the music that comes from their many bells. In my mind, priests of the Unified carry bells with them to remind all people of the presence of Mareal. They may also serve as foci, should a priest be sent on a mission to cleanse a place from the presence of demons. I picture something like this (http://images.wikia.com/pathfinder/images/4/4b/Channel_energy.jpg), but with a big sound wave instead of a beam of light.

New spell: Cue the Chorus? :smalltongue:

[Zap Dynamic]

New spell: Cue the Chorus? :smalltongue:

Hahaha, calling down a heavenly chorus to unless the Power of the Gods would make for a nice final showdown ritual!

I've uploaded another tale, this one a look at a part of the Song of Unity (http://undertheboughs.wordpress.com/2012/03/03/excerpts-from-the-song-of-unity/), the holy book of the Unified, the religion of Cerai, a foreign nation. It's incomplete right now, but I can't think of how I want to add to it just yet, and I wanted to get it online.

[Pokonic]

Hahaha, calling down a heavenly chorus to unless the Power of the Gods would make for a nice final showdown ritual!

I've uploaded another tale, this one a look at a part of the Song of Unity (http://undertheboughs.wordpress.com/2012/03/03/excerpts-from-the-song-of-unity/), the holy book of the Unified, the religion of Cerai, a foreign nation. It's incomplete right now, but I can't think of how I want to add to it just yet, and I wanted to get it online.

Ohh, I like it!


A few questions about the religion in general: There based on old-fashened Christianity, correct? Would the "demons" that they ward off with there bells actualy be Fey? What about Trolls, Kolbold, and others? How is it treated within the Elder Kingdom? Would stringing up little iron bells (to ward off most kinds of magical things) on your door be a Cerain thing, perhapes?

[Zap Dynamic]

It is based on early Christianity, although it definitely charts its own course. This is essentially the first substantial hint at a larger outside world. I've given it some rough thought, but its by no means the focus of this setting... just a little extra flavor.

I'd imagine that the Unified would consider the fey to be demons, yes. Whether or not they actually are demons is up to the GM, but either way I think the divine magic would work against them.

In this setting, I don't imagine a difference between divine and arcane magic.

[Wyntonian]

It is based on early Christianity, although it definitely charts its own course. This is essentially the first substantial hint at a larger outside world. I've given it some rough thought, but its by no means the focus of this setting... just a little extra flavor.

I really like these guys, in a weird way. They seem really interesting. Mind if I borrow your style of using stories to explain things? It seems to be working well for you, and although I'm not an excellent writer I could probably muddle through.



I'd imagine that the Unified would consider the fey to be demons, yes. Whether or not they actually are demons is up to the GM, but either way I think the divine magic would work against them.

In this setting, I don't imagine a difference between divine and arcane magic.


A little idea for the Unified philosophy, "Humans and Fey both share an ability for magic and reason. In humans, the ability for Reason is vast, while our capacity for magic is generally small. In Fey, however, magic runs thick in their blood. This imbalance, however, leaves them barely sane."

I thought that was cute, anyway. It may or may not fit, as your fey seem pretty centered at first glance.

Also, if you expect people to play here, you need to at least allow people to make the distinction, even if you don't make one yourself. Regardless of the fluff, the Mystic Theurge class exists, and others like it. Hell, in Patria the only true priesthood uses exclusively arcane magic, but they say it comes from Tuhan Sky-Father. Feel free to ignore any fluff differences in the arcane/divine system, but if you abolish it completely weird things happen with the mechanics of the game and loopholes start to pop up.

[Zap Dynamic]

I really like these guys, in a weird way. They seem really interesting. Mind if I borrow your style of using stories to explain things? It seems to be working well for you, and although I'm not an excellent writer I could probably muddle through.

You're more than welcome to! The more I use it, the more satisfied I am with how it's working. Structurally, I think the final draft of this thread will have a "Character" section, which will include in-character tales laying out all the things players will need to know, a "Player" section, doing over the mechanics necessary for players to generate characters (race, class, etc.), and a "GM" section, which will include suggestions for how to represent the various tales.




A little idea for the Unified philosophy, "Humans and Fey both share an ability for magic and reason. In humans, the ability for Reason is vast, while our capacity for magic is generally small. In Fey, however, magic runs thick in their blood. This imbalance, however, leaves them barely sane."

I picture the Unified being very black and white in their philosophy. Every subject for the Unified is viewed through the lens of religion, so not only would they consider "magic" to be an abomination (though "miracles" are fine), but the Elves (I've got to get out of the habit of calling them fey! :smalltongue:) would either be Saints or demons. The official position of the church wouldn't be willing to posit the existence of something outside of their own framework (like nature spirits), and I don't even think they would be interested in real, scientific method study of something. Even if they did, they are anything but impartial. They're interested in figuring out how something fits into their notion of the divine, not how their notions can be shaped by the world around them. Does any of that make sense?


I thought that was cute, anyway. It may or may not fit, as your fey seem pretty centered at first glance.

My goal is to have the Elves be pretty radically different from humans in terms of morality and psychology in general, but I haven't figured out which story will best convey that yet. Regardless, I think a lot of their nature will only be explainable during play, so I suppose I should start thinking about running a game in this world...


Also, if you expect people to play here, you need to at least allow people to make the distinction, even if you don't make one yourself. Regardless of the fluff, the Mystic Theurge class exists, and others like it. Hell, in Patria the only true priesthood uses exclusively arcane magic, but they say it comes from Tuhan Sky-Father. Feel free to ignore any fluff differences in the arcane/divine system, but if you abolish it completely weird things happen with the mechanics of the game and loopholes start to pop up.

A quick comment on class availability: I am really controlling which classes will be playable in this setting. As of now, Gnorman's E6 stuff is the only stuff I'm allowing, and even then there's a lot that's a no-go.

As far as the distinction between divine and arcane is concerned, Divine and Arcane will likely stay rigidly defined in the mechanics, but I want to break through the narrative barrier between them. I have a really weak background in homebrew, especially in magic (10 years of tabletop play and I've never played a caster!), so I don't even want to dream about changing any of the mechanics. I guess I just didn't give anyone much to work with in my earlier comment. :smalltongue:

Also, I want to try and tease out one of my design goals for this setting. Everyone has been suggesting ideas for the various elements I've presented, or asking questions for me to clarify certain points. Don't get me wrong, I LOVE that people are interested in this, but I'm giving vague answers because I want each person to come to this world and make it their own, so to speak. I have my own ideas about how it should work, and when I run a campaign in the setting I'm sure I'll use them, but I want to leave my work vague enough that someone else can put their own ideas into play without coming to an inconsistency somewhere. Preserving the mystery in my presentation allows others to answer the questions for themselves, which I feel makes the setting all the more attractive.

[Zap Dynamic]

I've been thinking about these tales. I like that they are used to introduce the player to the world, and I like that they contain hints about the things they portray. For example, The Hollowback relates that the titular figure is mischievous, very strong, lusty, and she can be very polite and helpful so long as she isn't slighted.

I'm second-guessing, though, because those are powerful tools in the hands of a player. I want to use these stories to describe the setting (and to hint at powers and weaknesses), but I don't want to open the door for meta-gaming.

To that end, I'm thinking about introducing a skill called "Knowledge (Tales)." Essentially, for each point you put into the skill, your character will be familiar with one tale. They are free to use that tale to the fullest, but they can't do that with any other tales.

Thoughts? Because it basically represents how much helpful knowledge your character has about the world, does it seem too powerful, i.e. something that EVERYONE would invest in?

[Pokonic]

I've been thinking about these tales. I like that they are used to introduce the player to the world, and I like that they contain hints about the things they portray. For example, The Hollowback relates that the titular figure is mischievous, very strong, lusty, and she can be very polite and helpful so long as she isn't slighted.

I'm second-guessing, though, because those are powerful tools in the hands of a player. I want to use these stories to describe the setting (and to hint at powers and weaknesses), but I don't want to open the door for meta-gaming.

To that end, I'm thinking about introducing a skill called "Knowledge (Tales)." Essentially, for each point you put into the skill, your character will be familiar with one tale. They are free to use that tale to the fullest, but they can't do that with any other tales.

Thoughts? Because it basically represents how much helpful knowledge your character has about the world, does it seem too powerful, i.e. something that EVERYONE would invest in?

On the other hand, a party could learn tales centered on a local area by taking the right Knowledge check, ect. Not every tale is centered on the same subjects, tho, so a person with more navel-oriented skills could talk about the time there great-uncle caught that sea-serpent that ran away that was tthhiiissss big, or the woodcutter and the time a tree once walked away from him before he swang his axe, or the time your great-grandfather was mining by himself and a rock he hit bleed and kicked the crap out of him. Basicly, everyone has there stories, and for a setting like this a single flat skill would be rather odd. It's like the existance of the Streetwise check, where if you go to any urban area in the world you can get a run-down on most criminal going ons without prior information. It's just odd.

[Eldest]

Give each story a Knowledge check DC, and if you don't know it too bad. Also, perhaps the Poet gets a little boost for knowing the tales?

[Zap Dynamic]

Give each story a Knowledge check DC, and if you don't know it too bad. Also, perhaps the Poet gets a little boost for knowing the tales?

Great idea!

I've updated the Excerpts from the Song of Unity (http://undertheboughs.wordpress.com/2012/03/03/excerpts-from-the-song-of-unity/) post over on my blog. It now includes three sections: The opening lines of the Song and a brief creation myth, an example of a prayer to Mareal Turi, and a verse giving an example of an early, pivotal crusade within the faith. I really didn't want to focus too much on this faction, so all of those three pieces of verse are basically stolen from real-world sources (bonus points if you can guess them!). That said, it was necessary to lay out the groundwork for the faction, because how else would someone relate to it?

While we're on the subject, I think I'll assign one of these tales to each of the Character Creation factions. For example, the Song of Unity will be assigned to The Unified, and possibly also Cerai in general. If you choose one of those factions, you have intimate knowledge of the relevant tale, allowing you to always take 20 on the relevant knowledge check.

[Eldest]

Great idea!

I've updated the Excerpts from the Song of Unity (http://undertheboughs.wordpress.com/2012/03/03/excerpts-from-the-song-of-unity/) post over on my blog. It now includes three sections: The opening lines of the Song and a brief creation myth, an example of a prayer to Mareal Turi, and a verse giving an example of an early, pivotal crusade within the faith. I really didn't want to focus too much on this faction, so all of those three pieces of verse are basically stolen from real-world sources (bonus points if you can guess them!). That said, it was necessary to lay out the groundwork for the faction, because how else would someone relate to it?

While we're on the subject, I think I'll assign one of these tales to each of the Character Creation factions. For example, the Song of Unity will be assigned to The Unified, and possibly also Cerai in general. If you choose one of those factions, you have intimate knowledge of the relevant tale, allowing you to always take 20 on the relevant knowledge check.

You could also add a larger DC to know about how the story has changed, alternate endings, more details, and a (massive) DC to just have it spelled out for you in plain english.

[Zap Dynamic]

You could also add a larger DC to know about how the story has changed, alternate endings, more details, and a (massive) DC to just have it spelled out for you in plain english.

I like the idea of being able to know about the difference between the tale and the facts that spawned it, but that may be another instance where it would be more easily handled with a quest. Want to learn about the truth behind that crusade? It is rumored that a tome containing the truth exists in the vaults of the Temple of Unity in the city of Freeport. Pursue it at your own risk, however, because it is said that the Dead guard the treasure from all who would seek to steal it, and it also protected by many traps.

[korpg]

I like the idea of being able to know about the difference between the tale and the facts that spawned it, but that may be another instance where it would be more easily handled with a quest. Want to learn about the truth behind that crusade? It is rumored that a tome containing the truth exists in the vaults of the Temple of Unity in the city of Freeport. Pursue it at your own risk, however, because it is said that the Dead guard the treasure from all who would seek to steal it, and it also protected by many traps.

Or...

"You want to know the truth behind why the old Witch cursed Eckhart?"
The old farmhand looked quite confused, "Can't imagine why anyone would want to know that."
He pauses and scratches at his stubbly beard for a second, then says, "Well as I recall, old Barlo's Grammer used to tell us tales from when she was a youngin'. One such story says that the Witch always has to tell the truth when asked any question when the harvest moon is high in the night sky."
After speaking of the Witch, the man makes a sign to ward off evil and spits at the ground to cement his safety from ill omens. Then he continues quickly, "Perhaps you should ask the old codger if he knows who told his Grammer that hearthtale. Maybe there's a thread of truth there."

[Zap Dynamic]

Or...

Want to know the truth behind why the old Witch cursed Eckhart?
Well as I recall, old Barlo's Grammer used to tell us tales from when she was a youngin.
One such story says that the Witch always has to tell the truth when asked any question when the harvest moon is high in the night sky.
Perhaps you should ask the old codger if he knows who told his Grammer that hearthtale.
Maybe there's a thread of truth there....

oooOOOooo, a hook that's only applicable for one night of the year? I'm a big fan of characters actually aging during the course of a campaign, so this sort of thing is exactly what I'm into.

[korpg]

I'm of the opinion that showing, not telling, the details are what's of primary importace in a setting such as this.


"You want to know the truth behind why the old Witch cursed Eckhart?"
The old farmhand looked quite confused, "Can't imagine why anyone would want to know that."

Here we let the players know they're treading on ground they may not want to walk.
It's exciting and dangerous and mysterious because it's not something commoners tend to conern themselves with.
Right there we set the character's actions and interest apart from the standard backround NPCs.


He pauses and scratches at his stubbly beard for a second, then says, "Well as I recall, old Barlo's Grammer used to tell us tales from when she was a youngin'..."

The Witch is old... really old. She's had stories told about her for what could be 4-5 generations now.
So there's a lot of possible things that have been added or removed or just plain wrong with the stories about her.


"... One such story says that the Witch always has to tell the truth when asked any question when the harvest moon is high in the night sky."

Maybe, maybe not...


After speaking of the Witch, the man makes a sign to ward off evil and spits at the ground to cement his safety from ill omens. Then he continues quickly, "Perhaps you should ask the old codger if he knows who told his Grammer that hearthtale. Maybe there's a thread of truth there."

Finally, the warding sign and action help cement the "low level hidden magic" of the setting while making it perfectly clear that, while most commoners don't spend their time thinking about the Witch and her kind much, they certainly believe she holds power over them.

Show, don't tell.
It adds to the mystery of the setting.

[Zap Dynamic]

"Show, don't tell" is a good maxim for this setting. I also like the implication that these stories could be true, but they might not be. Thanks!

And I've got another tale up! This one, The Lord of High Hall (http://undertheboughs.wordpress.com/2012/03/06/the-king-of-high-hall/), is the longest one yet. It tells the story of the lord of High Hall, who was too dumb to be afraid, and too strong to be killed. I drew heavily from a Grimm tale called The Boy Who Went Forth To Learn What Fear Was for this, because it's one of my favorites. A really wacky tale.

[Landis963]

And I've got another tale up! This one, The Lord of High Hall (http://undertheboughs.wordpress.com/2012/03/06/the-king-of-high-hall/), is the longest one yet. It tells the story of the lord of High Hall, who was too dumb to be afraid, and too strong to be killed. I drew heavily from a Grimm tale called The Boy Who Went Forth To Learn What Fear Was for this, because it's one of my favorites. A really wacky tale.

Great story, although I'm not sure why the Priest made himself the object lesson, instead of just sending him off to someplace renowned for its collection of ghosts, spectres, etc. Nor, once the Priest died (!) from his foolhardy prank, why people kept doing the same thing to him (our dumb hero, that is). At least the lord at the end is Genre Savvy enough to use him to clear out that haunted mansion.

[Zap Dynamic]

Like I said, I drew heavily from an extant Grimm tale for High Hall, so I can't say much regarding why the characters acted that way.

For my money, people kept testing the boy because they hadn't heard of the death of the Priest, or if they had they didn't see a connection with a boy who wasn't afraid of anything. Likewise, the lord was probably amazed that the boy was surviving, and probably didn't stop to think that he could use this to his advantage, since he only gained a chest of treasure, and gave away a castle and a daughter in the bargain. In my experience, the people that populate these tales aren't much in the way of investigative thinking. They're very simple stories designed to entertain or pass along a lesson, and the supporting characters don't seem to matter much.

[Landis963]

In my experience, the people that populate these tales aren't much in the way of investigative thinking. They're very simple stories designed to entertain or pass along a lesson, and the supporting characters don't seem to matter much.

It does make for amusing "fractured fairy tale" fodder though.

[Clawhound]

A quick glance over this looks good. It's a great basis to start with. Most importantly, you focused on what was important rather than meaningless details.

[Zap Dynamic]

A quick glance over your Endhaven project (specifically, the metaphysics section) has me thoroughly mesmerized. Well done!

[Zap Dynamic]

While I'm thinking about it.

I've been looking at the information I've put on the site already, and compared that with the information that I have yet you put online. There is enough stuff here for people to create characters and get started, and I can easily add more tales as we play. Basically, what I'm saying is that I'm ready to run a campaign in this setting.

...if I weren't already taking part in three campaigns. :smallannoyed:

I want to run a quest in this baby, and I have a lot of ideas right now, but I need a little more time to make sure it's something I can commit to. That said, is anyone interested in playing?

[Eldest]

*Looks at the five games I'm playing now*
Yes.

[Wyntonian]

Yes, by Saturday I'll be in six games. I'm still going to apply :smallsmile:

[Zap Dynamic]

Simplified Weapons Table

Instead of the standard 3.5 weapons table (which I find to be very limiting in its attempt to create variety) this setting will use something much simpler.

{table=head]Weapon Classification|Damage|Examples
Unarmed|1d4|Fists
Light|1d6|Arrow, Bolt, Club, Dagger, Short Sword, Sling Stone, Staff
Medium|1d8|Axe, Hammer, Long Sword, Mace, Spear
Heavy|1d10|Heavy Sword, Pole Arm
{colsp=3}*Any class may fight unarmed.
{colsp=3}*Magic users are restricted to Light weapons.
{colsp=3}*Dex-focused characters are restricted to Light and Medium weapons.
{colsp=3}*Heavy weapons require two hands to use and prohibit the use of a shield.[/table]

This list of examples is by no means definitive. The sky is the limit in terms of describing the gear your character possesses, although the setting will obviously lend itself better to certain kinds of weapon (not much call for a scimitar this far from the desert, etc.).


----
As written, what do you guys think of this system? I'm considering adding a list of properties (i.e. Trip, Reach, Keen, etc.), and allowing each weapon to begin with 1 property.

Thoughts?

[Landis963]

"Heavy weapons require two hands and the use of a shield"?

Are there going to be triskelions in this setting? :smalltongue:

[Zap Dynamic]

Whoops! They prohibit the use of a shield. Ker-fixed.

.::EDIT::.
I'm strongly considering taking out the "Dex characters are restricted to light and medium weapons" thing.

[Wyntonian]

This is an ok idea if you're going for simple, but I'm not sure why you'd choose this over the standard 3.5 weapon system. The only thing it really adds is simplicity, and it does so by reducing support and options.

If your fighter has Weapon Finesse, he suddenly can't use a polearm? He is a "Dex-focused character" at that point, but I don't get why a feat should take away your options. Also, if a paladin takes a couple levels of sorceror (sorcadin gish-style), why is he limited to light weapons? As a magic-user, "*Magic users are restricted to Light weapons."

This is an ok houserule for beginners who don't really care about the numbers, but it kinda falls apart once you get into it. I would recommend that for your worldbuilding project you focus on adding things into the world, new playable classes, monsters and fluff, and choosing what you want to put in rather than trying to take a significant part of the system out. Leave that to the DM's to decide.

Of course, if you're making this world solely for your own use, do what you want. If you have slightly bigger dreams, however, leave your personal rules and the actual world separate.

[korpg]

As the author of the simplified chart I should probably speak up a bit.

That weapon chart comes from my simplified redesign of D&D.

The primary reason such issues weren't present in the discussion on how I would go about redoing D&D was due to a prior removal of feats and multiclassing.

[Zap Dynamic]

Good Advice.

That's one of the main reasons why I'm considering taking the "dex based characters..." bit out. It detracts from the options a player has.

As far as the caster restriction, that wouldn't apply to multiclass characters, but it wasn't explicitly stated so I see where you're coming from.

I disagree with you as regards putting things in vs. taking things out. Especially because I imagine this setting being a small part of a larger world, I think it's necessary to pare down what's available to players and GMs. In the same sense that a Yeti would be out of place in a desert, so too would it be weird to see certain races, classes, monsters, and even mechanics in this setting. One of the major challenges I've faced as a player that started playing around the advent of 3.5 is that it took a long time for me to understand that certain things are appropriate in certain situations in this game. I think there's too much stuff in this game to make for a really interesting, focused story, and one of the major goals I have for this project is to streamline the whole shebang.

That said, I see your point. At each step of the way, I need to be careful to separate what is critical for the setting and what I merely prefer as a GM.

[Wyntonian]

In the same sense that a Yeti would be out of place in a desert, so too would it be weird to see certain races, classes, monsters, and even mechanics in this setting.

Well, yeah, I agree on the surface anyway.

However, the yeti-in-a-desert thing is a thematic disconnect that, as world-builder, it's your job to discourage/eliminate. Races, likewise. I don't have raptorans, catfolk or elves in Patria. Thematic disconnect.

The point where these things fall apart isn't "Well, a yeti is too powerful..." or "Eh, that +2 to Illusion DC's that Gnomes have just doesn't do it for me..." It's the in-world visible things. If you look at the yeti as a statblock, take away all the thematic references and just see a CR, AC and the like, does it work in a desert?

Well, yeah. There's nothing wrong with it's stats. Those are in-world invisible.

Classes kinda fit this too. From an in-world standpoint, they're somewhat hard to detect. It's not easy to tell whether the screaming dude with an axe is a Fighter, Ranger, OA Samurai, Barbarian, Sorcadin Gish, Duskblade... If you just look at what a class can do, you'll find it's kinda hard to ban classes flat-out.

For example, I had a hard time with Psions, most because of the fluff. Come on, making stuff out of crystals and extoplasm? Really? Please. Then, I looked harder at what they actuall do as a class.

"Oh... elemental blasting? That's ok. Messing with people's minds? Fine. Making a monster-type thing with a form not determined in any way beyond the picture that accompanies it? Sure, sure, call it a totem animal."

I closed off a couple powers (mostly time-screwing things and the Astral Traveler line) and called it good.

The mechanics, the power point system, the augmentations, the chassis, all were fine. It was the fluff I had an issue with and the fluff that I changed.

What about mechanics?

These, by very definition, don't exist in your world. Nobody sees a sword and goes, "ah, yes, a 1d8 slashing medium-class weapon!". No character has ever rolled a nat 1. They may have failed spectacularly, but this whole dice concept is foreign to them. As a builder of fluff, primarily, and the mechanics that support it, it makes little sense for you to, in that capacity, limit what goes on behind the scenes. Mechanics and fluff should support each other, but still be distinct.

So across all this, what did I take out of Patria?

Primarily thematic sticking points. Races that didn't work, powers that were out of place, abilities that didn't mesh.

What stayed?

The opportunities for characters to customize their characters as they see fit, barring any fluff-based square pegs in round holes.

I see your point that being streamlined is good, but honestly, if someone's looking for a streamlined system, 3.5 isn't the best choice.

[/rant]

Sorry if I seem kinda combative, but with important things like this that really influence gameplay it's important to put them to a test to make sure they're the right choice.

[korpg]

Excellent Points

Hard to find much there to argue with.

[Zap Dynamic]

Good stuff.

You make a very good argument, to the point that I'm going to change most (if not all) of the stuff I've added (contacts, reputation, etc.) from "Mechanics of the World" to "Recommended Features." At the end of the day, the most important element of a game is to have fun. To that end, each table should add and subtract the parts of the engine that they enjoy or detest, and I'll be sure to include that note when I put up the final draft of this setting.

To a certain extent, I look at this project as building a game in addition to building a setting. Like you implied, 3.5 isn't a perfect system, and I've been thinking about ways to improve it for a while now. However, that's not the goal of a setting, and I thank you for reminding me!

The only issue I take with your argument is one that lies pretty close to the heart of the Old vs. New debate. Namely, in my mind, the system that would best accompany this setting is something simple and streamlined. The most important goal of that system is to take the task of creativity and possibility from the range of mechanical options available, and put it back into the hands of the player.

My dream for this setting (one that I put on the back burner pretty early on) was to find/create no more than six flavorless classes: a tank, a striker, a buffer, a controller, etc. If need be, each would have a melee and a ranged variant, and--beyond their mechanics--each would be a blank slate onto which the player could project whatever character they wanted. For example, the tank could be a big, hulking armored brute just as easily as he could be a tiny, dodgy gnome who taunts his enemies into attacking him. The controller could be an all-powerful wizard slinging spells like the madman he is, or some kind of zen-calm Aikido master, descending onto his enemies like a waterfall.

In my opinion, a rules-light, simple system that features a few barebones elements that can be flavored as-desired is a good system, particularly for this setting. That's not the way everyone thinks, though, and I'm okay with that. In the future, I'll be working hard to include what's best for the setting, and to suggest (but not demand) what's best for my own tastes. :smallsmile:

[korpg]

I say work toward your vision of a setting and how it should feel both thematically as well as mechanically, then either


take a rules-light system that's close and generate your own rule additions
take something with more rules and pare it down to meet your needs.


Wile personally I agree that 3.5 might be a bit heavy for a system like this, then again, my D&D redesign is likely too light as well.

Instead of marrying yourself to one focus or another, take what you like from each (and anything else) and mold it to fit the theme, setting and scenario.

[Wyntonian]

I'm just glad I could help. :smallsmile:

There's some rule of rational debate that says for a hypothesis to be treated as operable that one must try to disprove through the channels most likely to succeed or some such. So, when you have good idea/hypotheses, please consider it not a "lolusuck" but a "This is a good idea, let's make sure it works in the face of questioning" sort of thing when I go all socratic on it.

Best part? You can use 3.5 still. Easily. Patria and 3.5 go hand in hand, because I knew from the beginning that that's what I wanted to be using, but you can use FATE, freeform, GURPS, any of the dozens of homebrewed systems, a simplified 3.5, whatever you want for one game, and play a different system for the next.

[Dsurion]

I just wanted to pop in and say how much I really enjoy following this setting. I might like to run something like it with Warrior, Rogue and Mage, if I can pitch it to my group.

[Zap Dynamic]

I just wanted to pop in and say how much I really enjoy following this setting. I might like to run something like it with Warrior, Rogue and Mage, if I can pitch it to my group.

At first glance, this looks like a really cool system! Here's a link for those of you not in-the-know:

Warrior, Rogue, and Mage (http://www.stargazergames.eu/games/warrior-rogue-mage/)

The best part thus far? It's free!

I'm excited to see how it handles "boiling things down." At the heart of these RPGs, you're either a fighter, a sneaker, a thinker, or something in between, and I have a suspicion that creating characters that can mix and match between these is a system worth trying out. Plus, I think these rules-light systems are ideal for PbP games.

I'm going to have to download these tonight and read them over. If it looks good, I may end up running my own game with this system. Couldn't wait. I just read through it, and I love it. It needs a tiny bit of tweaking, but this is probably the system I'll run. Yeehaw!

Thanks, Dsurion!

[Zap Dynamic]

A new story is up!

The Winter and Summer Kings (http://undertheboughs.wordpress.com/2012/03/09/the-winter-and-summer-kings/) is basically the founding story of the Two Kingdoms in the mountainous land of Koss. Together with the excerpts from The Song of Unity, this is all the information that will exist about the lands outside of the Blackwood. I wouldn't even have included them, but both factions have a presence in the Wood, so it was necessary to give them a little background.

This tale basically lays out the way their government works, and it does so by telling the story of how it came to exist. I picture the Two Kingdoms being a cross between Switzerland (with their international neutrality), Rome (with their military prowess), and a dash of Shangri-La's seclusion.

While I'm posting, I wanted to let everyone know that I've begun the work of revising the original posts. They're not turning into final drafts just yet, but they're getting closer. So far I've cleaned up parts of the "Crunch" section, and also a tiny bit of the "And Its People" section.

[Zap Dynamic]

Bah! I meant to bring a list of suggested names to work so I could upload it over lunch, but I forgot.

At any rate, I'm dangerously close to being finished with this for now. There are plenty of Tales that I could write, but they're not really necessary to get a game going, so I'm not going to include them just now. I'll be spending this week cleaning up the OPs and deciding whether or not I want to add another game to my plate. Who knows!

In other news, I've decided that I don't need Silverheart trees in the setting. They were cool and relevant once upon a time, but after spending a few weeks really digging my heels into the setting and not even thinking about them once, I realize that they're pretty unnecessary. If there needs to be some kind of valuable resource that foreigners are trying to get from the Blackwood (and I don't know that there needs to be), it could very easily be all the golden birds and frogs and other animals that seem to crop up in the Grimm Tales.

[Zap Dynamic]

I'm pretty sure one of the signs of the End Times is the day I find a physical scale that I'm happy with. I've decided to halve the play space of the Blackwood. I'll update the map accordingly, but instead of the scale bar reading "0 to 50" miles, it should be "0 to 25."

The fact of the matter is, there's plenty of space in this setting, and I don't need it. At first I wanted the Forest Road to be a 4-day journey for most people, and I've recently realized that most of the people in this setting wouldn't have a horse. With that in mind, the scale might as well be cut in half.

I'm really OK with this decision, and here's why. It's about 25 miles between the Stag and Dragon Inn and High Hall. According to Pathfinder movement tables, a creature with a speed of 30 feet can walk 24 miles in a day. Coincidentally, it's also about 24 miles from the town where I grew up and the town I went to college. Thinking about that real-world space, there are a truly insane amount of stories that could be tucked away in a region that size. Considering that it's about 4 real-world miles from Riften to Markarth (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Skyrim), It would be completely reasonable to say that people living in the forest might never see the Way or any of its cities, which is something that I'm pretty passionate about.

[Landis963]

In other news, I've decided that I don't need Silverheart trees in the setting. They were cool and relevant once upon a time, but after spending a few weeks really digging my heels into the setting and not even thinking about them once, I realize that they're pretty unnecessary. If there needs to be some kind of valuable resource that foreigners are trying to get from the Blackwood (and I don't know that there needs to be), it could very easily be all the golden birds and frogs and other animals that seem to crop up in the Grimm Tales.

Can I borrow them? They'd be perfect (with a touch of tweaking) for part of my campaign world. (thread to appear on Thursday).

[Zap Dynamic]

Sure! Go right ahead. After my current projects (a fair amount of time after my current projects, I'd imagine) I want to make a world that's inspired by myth in the sense that this is inspired by folklore. I may even make my own myths! Who knows!

[Wyntonian]

I may even make my own myths! Who knows!

DO IT! It's so much fun! I plan to write up some fairy tales and such for Patria, and Byzantine is helping out with Vallheim Clan Origin stories! It's not hard, either. Just look for stories of truly memetic badasses and refluff it, put it in context, whatever.

Example: On the course of his journeys the Lost Emperor, Tiber Gaios Asteri, came to the realization that his knowledge of his new dominion was insignificant compared to his understanding of the land he came from. So, by walking across the Fairy Trails that would later become the King's Roads he came to the dominion of Lady Luettu, Keeper of the Great Library where all that was ever known is recorded. She met him at the door beside her champion, the great owl who sees all that occurs in the hearts of men, and told him the toll to pass into the Library was the crown he wore across the seas. He gave it without a word, and entered the library where he learned of his new kingdom, of magic, of many songs of power, and of the many courts of the Fey Lords.

I took the existing Tiber Gaios Asteri story and tacked on a refluffed version of Odin and his travel to the Well of Knowledge, changed from giving up an eye to giving up a crown, and called it good.

Seriously, this stuff is pretty easy. If you're creative enough to make a whole world, you can do some stories.

[unosarta]

Oh man, it has been ages since I have posted on GitP.

So, I noticed that you included the Storysinger in one of the earlier posts and was then intrigued by this thread. I don't know how the class would really fit in an E6 campaign, but it's cool that you included it. :smallsmile:

This setting seems really interesting, and I was wondering if you wouldn't mind if I wrote a short story based on it. It wouldn't be something I would be expecting you to include, just something personal for me. I love Grimm inspired fairy tales, and I love the idea of writing one. I would just be using names that appear in the setting. Feel free to tell me no, though... :smallsmile:

[Zap Dynamic]

Go right ahead! I don't know if you're writing on a blog or whatever, if you could just mention at some point that you're using stuff from this, that would be great! I'd also love to read whatever you come up with.

As far as the Storysinger is concerned, it was something I noticed very early on this process (before discovering E6 and, after that, Warrior, Rogue, and Mage). It has since fallen to the wayside, but I remember wondering at one point if it would be all that overpowered to just allow the first 6 levels of a few PrCs to be used as base classes. It's a thought, at any rate.

Editing Update: I'm making good progress on the content for the OPs. I have a long list of bullet points right now, and I'm trying to decide if it will be better to expand those into full-on text, or if it's all right to leave them as-is. I've got five posts in the original group to work with, and this is what I've got so far:


The Blackwood (A "For Characters" section)
The Blackwood for Players

Wood Tales
River Tales

The Blackwood for GMs


That's three-to-five posts right there. I don't think I'll have enough text to separate them all, though, so I will probably end up using only the first three posts.

One of the best things about this revision is that I'm coming to understand the world a lot better. I'm further segregating Riverfolk and Woodfolk (they still interact, but they're much more like two separate nations now), I'm cutting a lot of the needless baggage (Silverheart trees, some of the foreign details), and a few other things. In short, I think this is turning into a mean, lean setting, and I couldn't be happier!

[unosarta]

Normally I just post stuff right in the threads. I don't really have a blog (tumblr doesn't really count).

I would love to try to rework the levels into a more story oriented version of the bard, and make it E6 viable, if that would be okay with you. :smallsmile:

[Zap Dynamic]

That would be fine! Officially, this setting isn't dependent on a system, but I've built it with lower-power systems like E6 in mind. It would be pretty easy to tack anything from that realm onto this.

[unosarta]

The Hunter's Daughter

“The hunter’s daughter was born into the raging spring, and came howling into the world. Her eyes were open when the hunter pulled her out of her mother’s womb, and it was his face that she first saw. Her mother, a sad and timid woman, allowed her husband to hold their daughter as long as he wanted, for she was a bride of broken back, and he beat her daily. The hunter’s daughter screamed for the first three days of her birth, and would not cease for more than a few minutes to speak in some way. She had brilliant, moon-colored eyes. Her father thought she was a boy, at first, when he heard such strong lungs.

‘Look at what a fine young boy I have fathered,’ he laughed to his wife. Her tired and sagging lines betrayed the ache in her bones, and the sad, quiet sorrow of seeing her child.

‘It is no boy. That is a girl, a lovely little girl.’ Her voice was cold and chattering, the pain of childbirth taking all of her strength.

‘Nonsense. I know a boy when I see one, and this is a boy, I tell you.’ Partly not wanting to anger her husband, and partly because of exhaustion, the wife said nothing. She died within the week. The hunter raised his daughter as a boy for the first thirteen years of her life.

He taught her how to swim, hunt, fish, and fight. Her size and apparent frailty were offset by her deviousness and vicious temperament. She would often defeat the other boys that lived nearby, trouncing them and then beating their fathers as well, when they came to defend their children. She fought needlessly, and without passion. She fought from fear, or hate, or some realization that she was not meant for this world, and that her time was short. She lived her life as a constant struggle.

On the eve of her thirteenth birthday, the hunter decided he would take her out into the woods and find some large game, game too large to go after before. He gave her a bow and arrows, and a long, deadly sharp hunting knife.

They went into the forest looking for sport, and that is all we know. The rest of the tale is speculation, but according to the old storyteller in the shack outside of town, it’s all true.

They were not but a mile or two into the woods when the hunter was way lain by a trap. He got his leg caught in the teeth of a rusty bear-catcher, and was marooned. The hunter’s daughter, being who she was, didn’t even notice his disappearance. It took him several hours to free himself.

She, however, found some game far, far quicker than that. As she walked into the next clearing, a huge alpha wolf sat on the ground next to a stone, sunning itself in the midday heat. It looked up at her, and then back down, apparently falling asleep. The hunter’s daughter, initially set on killing the beast, stopped herself as she drew closer to its hulking form.

The wolf had streaks of gold in its otherwise pristine white pelt. Its eyes were a deep amber color that reflected and radiated light in such a way as to mesmerize and ensnare prey in its gaze. Strange swirling patterns had formed in the golden streaks near the top of its head, and the hunter’s daughter could trace them with her fingers when she got close enough. They spelled out words, or some strange sigil that she could not read. The wolf looked up at her for a moment, and then rolled, opening up its belly for her to scratch. When she did so, she could feel the wolf’s deep, almost woolly fur, and the incredible softness of the great beast. He looked at her, and instinctively she knew that she was in every way his lesser. She could not even hope to ascend to this beauty. She bared her neck to him, and he nodded.

It was then, rather unfortunately, that her father came into the clearing. After several hours of working at the trap, and finally managing to pry the rusted iron off of his leg, he had wandered into the woods, looking for his daughter, still carrying his bow. His limp was getting worse, and he had already lost quite a bit of blood, the trail marking a clear path to the trap. His temper was short, and he flew into a rage when he saw his daughter with the wolf. Half blinded by pain already, it looked like the wolf had killed and eaten his child. He whipped out the bow, and knocked an arrow. When he let fly, the arrow simply bounced off of the great golden pelt of the wolf.

His daughter had already noticed him however. Completely unable to see her own father, she grew furious at some hunter attacking such a beautiful beast. She whipped out her knife, and rushed forward. He threw his bow at her, unable to understand why his son had just come back from the dead to try to attack him, nor why the wolf hadn’t died. The hunter’s daughter threw off the bow as she ran forward and jumped onto his chest, whipping out her knife at the last moment and stabbing him through the heart.

Only as the hunter’s own lifeblood began spilling upon the forest floor did she notice that the hunter she had murdered was her own father. He sputtered a few final words to her, and then died, right in her arms.

The guilt drove her mad. She turned to the wolf, and buried her blood covered face in his pelt. He nuzzled her, and led her off into the woods, where she became his mate. To this day, they hunt the woods, living as King and Queen together. She remains as fierce and ferocious as she ever was, only now wracked with guilt at the thought of killing her father. The old man says that she became a wolf because she couldn’t show her face in shame, but what does he know. I think she is just sad, and wolves don’t have to think about their fathers’ because dead, so it must be easier that way.

But it’s because of her that no one is allowed to hunt in those woods. You
must never enter them with a bow, or else she will gut you alive, and drink up your blood!”

The other children screamed and scattered, and Boris snarled in imitation of some ferocious wolf. When they were gone, he stared off into the woods, looking for some glimpse of a golden pelt and moon-colored eyes."

Here's a story I just finished. I kind of started it before I got permission, so I didn't use any specific names or places that were already mentioned. If it's okay with you and I write another one I will try to use more names and stuff.

This was really, really fun to write. :smallsmile:

[Zap Dynamic]

Cool stuff! It the fairy tale theme really well. I feel like I'm catching glimpses of everything from the story of Turin Turambar to Princess Mononoke. :smallsmile:

[unosarta]

Yeah, that was basically what I was thinking, mostly a combination Princess Mononoke and a lot of the more moral based children's stories. I really liked the combined themes of Wuxia and Grimm, so I decided to try to fuse them together.

The Storysinger is going really well. I am basically making them in the form of Gnorman's E6 classes, and exactly like a bard, but instead of songs they get stories, which are taken directly from the Grimm's Fairy Tales, Volume 1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimms'_Fairy_Tales#List_of_fairy_tales). So, they tell a story and give allies a mechanical benefit. Gnorman's poet seemed to be more about healing through song, so I am going to leave that to that class, and instead just have it be more buffing and stuff. I haven't any ideas for the archetypes, but I will cross that path when I come to it.

[Eldest]

Can I see the Storysinger? I like Gnorman's stuff, and I'd like to see how you wrote it up. And you can put it up on Gnorman's thread if it fits in with his idea, so he can include it in with Community Contributions, if you want to.

[The Anarresti]

So, I would like to express my approval of this project. I have been looking for a game setting that really did allow for traditional-style storytelling. I find it ironic that baseline D&D, which borrows heavily from Tolkien, often lacks the feel of the Lord of the Rings, where a little magic goes a long way.

I would be very interested in playing in a campaign in this setting. I have no campaigns going on right now, except for the RL one I am DMing. Now that swim season is over, and I have already applied to college, the next six monthes promise to be a lot less busy than the past year has been. I would volenteer to DM, but as I said I'm already DMing one campaign and I'm not sure if I could make good on that commitment.

By the way, a very different homebrew setting (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147142) has a magic system that I think works the way a magic system should. Maybe not in the way that this setting should, but still, food for thought.

And as for magic users, weren't local witches and hedge wizards relatively common in the middle ages, esp. in the era that these type of fairy tales hail from? Wise women, midwives, etc. were about as common as skilled blacksmiths. So, I don't see why a 1st level, subtle magic user wouldn't be, say, 1/500 instead of 1/10,000.

[Zap Dynamic]

So, I would like to express my approval of this project. I have been looking for a game setting that really did allow for traditional-style storytelling. I find it ironic that baseline D&D, which borrows heavily from Tolkien, often lacks the feel of the Lord of the Rings, where a little magic goes a long way.

Thanks! It's been a labor of love for a little while now, and I like it better and better as I go on. That's a pretty rare thing for my campaign settings!


I would be very interested in playing in a campaign in this setting. I have no campaigns going on right now, except for the RL one I am DMing. Now that swim season is over, and I have already applied to college, the next six monthes promise to be a lot less busy than the past year has been. I would volenteer to DM, but as I said I'm already DMing one campaign and I'm not sure if I could make good on that commitment.

At some point, I plan on running a campaign in this setting. If you subscribe to this thread, you'll be among the first to find out about the post over in the Recruitment section of the boards. :smallsmile:


And as for magic users, weren't local witches and hedge wizards relatively common in the middle ages, esp. in the era that these type of fairy tales hail from? Wise women, midwives, etc. were about as common as skilled blacksmiths. So, I don't see why a 1st level, subtle magic user wouldn't be, say, 1/500 instead of 1/10,000.

1/10,000 was kind of a ballpark figure, but something to keep in mind is that (as far as we know, which I would argue is pretty dang far) the hedge wizards and witches of the middle ages didn't actually have access to magic in the way we're defining it here. I would imagine that there is no shortage of people (say, 1/500) who are healers or brewers or fortune tellers of some kind or another that have no magical ability, but those few that are magic users make everyone suspicious of the ones that don't.

Aside from taking the decidedly risky chance of asking them outright, there's no means of determining whether or not a person can use magic, and those that do use it are more likely to be malevolent than kindly. With odds like that, most people are wary enough to give even a potential magic user a wide berth, if only to avoid the wrath of an actual magic user. Sure, they may not actively quell all of those professions, but they're very superstitious about recruiting them for help.

Update:
The first post has been edited to give a teaser of the latest draft! This first post will contain sections on The Wood, The River, and The Elder Kingdom, and each will have subsections detailing the region's inhabitants, Locales, Factions, and notable Figures.

Updated Update:
I added a little bit more (the "Factions" section for The Wood), and I've decided that there will be one large, blanket section of notable Figures, rather than one in each regional section.

[The Anarresti]

It's your setting, but in my mind that, although the hedge wizards of the medieval era did not have access to magic, that is also because magic does not exist in our world. Remember that people actually believed back them, even the hedge wizards themselves, that they had access to magic. In a world that is based on fairy tales, in a kingdom ruled by half-elf, in haunted woods with spooks lurking around every tree, it seems to me that the charms and superstitions that every person lives by would actually have a small amount of potency. To make magic-users as scarce as all that in a world saturated with (albiet subtle) magic, seems to me to reduce verisimilitude rather than increase it. Goodwife Wimple curing the whooping cough with a chant, or Old Man Carrow having a house where an unseen force does household chores, always out of the corners of visitor's eyes, doesn't seem too far-fetched.

The crux of my argument is that, if the medieval germanic tales of elves and giants are true in this world, then why not the belief in the very minor, everyday magic they practiced be true as well?
I think that it shouldn't be too hard to find a minor 1st level mage if you do some poking around, any harder than it is to find a modern-day witch in haiti or other areas where belief in witchcraft still abound.

[unosarta]

Can I see the Storysinger? I like Gnorman's stuff, and I'd like to see how you wrote it up. And you can put it up on Gnorman's thread if it fits in with his idea, so he can include it in with Community Contributions, if you want to.

I am still working on the Storysinger, and it will be quite a bit before I am really done. I kind of reworked the whole class. Writing the Storysongs is really difficult, since I am trying to translate the literal meaning of the first 15 stories of the first volume of Grimm's Fairy Tales into direct mechanical effects, which can be really difficult. That isn't even getting into the issue of Archetypes, which I haven't even started yet...

[Zap Dynamic]

It's your setting, but in my mind that, although the hedge wizards of the medieval era did not have access to magic, that is also because magic does not exist in our world. Remember that people actually believed back them, even the hedge wizards themselves, that they had access to magic. In a world that is based on fairy tales, in a kingdom ruled by half-elf, in haunted woods with spooks lurking around every tree, it seems to me that the charms and superstitions that every person lives by would actually have a small amount of potency. To make magic-users as scarce as all that in a world saturated with (albiet subtle) magic, seems to me to reduce verisimilitude rather than increase it. Goodwife Wimple curing the whooping cough with a chant, or Old Man Carrow having a house where an unseen force does household chores, always out of the corners of visitor's eyes, doesn't seem too far-fetched.

The crux of my argument is that, if the medieval germanic tales of elves and giants are true in this world, then why not the belief in the very minor, everyday magic they practiced be true as well?
I think that it shouldn't be too hard to find a minor 1st level mage if you do some poking around, any harder than it is to find a modern-day witch in haiti or other areas where belief in witchcraft still abound.

I see your point, and there are a few ways I'd like to respond.

First and foremost, my goal with this setting is to "keep the last few pages blank," so to speak. As far as I'm concerned, my job as a worldbuilder is to create potential and opportunity--always according to a unifying vision--rather than try to provide for the needs of everyone. Some people are going to want all that "small magic" in every single village, and some aren't. To that end, I want to build to the point where either could be possible, then let the individual tables decide on their own which path to take. If I've failed to do that, then I definitely want to know about it, but in general I think they way I've gone about describing things should be adequate.

Second, the aforementioned "unifying vision" that I'm trying to build is--like the Grimm tales--a little darkier and grittier than you would at first suspect. People live in the midst of magic, but more often than not it comes at a price that's not worth paying, or is used to malignant ends. That creates a hefty dose of superstition amongst certain groups of people. Here's the way I picture it right now:

Woodfolk (from the Blackwood): Surrounded by magic that hurts more than it helps. Very superstitious. Very wary.

Riverfolk (from the Way): Not exposed to much magic, but almost every one of them has a "friend of a friend" who saw a Waymaiden or fell under a curse or something. Pretty superstitious, but pretty skeptical.

Elderfolk (from the Elder Kingdom): Inundated in magic that has helped them to live fairly advanced, healthy lives. They consider magic to be something like a spiritual gift. Not terribly superstitious, and more-or-less welcoming of it. This is your typical "idealized" fairy tale kingdom, the place where people have invisible helpers and enchanted items and stuff. Their tales have spread across the whole of the Blackwood, but they are more or less isolated from travel and immigration.

Does that do anything to answer your concerns?

And unosarta, I'm reading through the Grimm tales right now, and I understand completely about the challenges you're facing. Assigning mechanic to most of them would be a challenge, and even assigning a moral element to some of them would be a stretch. Can't wait to see what you come up with!

[unosarta]

And unosarta, I'm reading through the Grimm tales right now, and I understand completely about the challenges you're facing. Assigning mechanic to most of them would be a challenge, and even assigning a moral element to some of them would be a stretch. Can't wait to see what you come up with!

I have managed to finish all but the last two stories. I am worried, though, because while I want to assign specific mechanical aspects to the stories, I also want to keep them interesting for the users, and I am worried on the balance in an E6 game.

I'll just put up the ones I have done so far, just in case.

The Frog King: Upon using this story, the Storysinger grants one ally within 30 feet the ability to strike a magical effect and attempt to dispel it. They must make a melee or ranged attack roll, and if they hit, may attempt to dispel a magical effect from the thing they struck. They roll a d20 and add the Storysinger’s caster level to the dispel check. If they are successful, one beneficial magical effect is removed from an enemy, or a harmful magical effect is removed from an ally. The magical effect is chosen at random. The ally may use this at any time during the encounter, but after using it, they may not dispel again, and if they do not use it before the encounter ends, the use fades. Activating this ability is a move action.

The Cat and Mouse in Partnership: Upon using this story, the Storysinger grants two allies within 30 feet the ability to work together in tandem. Whenever those allies flank a target, they gain an additional +2 competency bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls made against that target. In addition, whenever one of them successfully hits an opponent flanked by the other, they heal one hit point, and the other ally loses one hit point. This effect lasts for 3 rounds. Activating this ability is a swift action.

Mary’s Child: Upon activating this story, the Storysinger grants one ally within 30 feet a +4 competency bonus to Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate checks. Whenever they successfully make a Bluff, Diplomacy, or Intimidate check, they take 1 point of damage. This damage may not be avoided, and cannot be healed. Upon their third check, they heal 3d6 damage and gain the effects of the Zone of Truth spell, only affecting their person, and cannot attempt any Bluff, Diplomacy, or Intimidate checks for the next hour. This story lasts until the end of the encounter, if used during combat, or for one hour outside of combat. Activating this ability is a move action.

The Story of the Youth Who Went Forth to Learn What Fear Was: Upon activating this ability, the Storysinger grants all allies within 30 feet a +4 morale bonus to Will saves against Fear effects. In addition, all allies within 30 feet gain a +1 bonus to Armor Class and attack rolls. This effect lasts for 2 rounds. Activating this ability is a move action.

The Wolf and the Seven Young Kids: Upon activating this story, the Storysinger may force one enemy within 30 feet to make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 Storysinger level + Storysinging ability modifier) or focus on her. For the duration of this ability, if the enemy failed the save, they may not attack any creature but the Storysinger. If they successfully hit the Storysinger, their land speed is reduced by half for 1 round. Multiple hits reduce their speed by half again, and also refresh the duration of the movement speed penalty. This ability lasts for 4 rounds. Activating this ability is a swift action.

Trusty John: Upon activating this ability, the Storysinger must choose one enemy within 30 feet. If that enemy takes more than one action, or a single full round action, they take 1d4 damage, and must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 Storysinger levels + Storysinging ability modifier) or be Dazed for one round. This effect lasts for 3 rounds. Activating this ability is a move action.

The Good Bargain: Upon activating this ability, the Storysinger must choose one creature within 30 feet. They take a -2 penalty on all Intelligence based checks, and for the duration of the story, whenever they fail a Knowledge based check, they heal 1 point of damage. In addition, all opponents within 10 feet of that creature take a -3 penalty to all Intelligence based checks. This ability lasts for 5 rounds. Activating this ability is a move action.

The Wonderful Musician: Upon activating this ability, all enemies may only attack the Storysinger. However, the Storysinger gains a +2 competency bonus to Armor Class, and any time an opponent attempts to attack the Storysinger, the Storysinger’s allies may move up to 10 feet towards the Storysinger, and all attacks made against the Storysinger provoke an attack of opportunity at a +2 bonus to the attack roll for allies. This effect lasts for 2 rounds. Activating this ability is a swift action.

The Twelve Brothers: Upon activating this ability, the Storysinger may choose one ally within 30 feet. That ally may not take any actions for the next round, besides moving. If they do, all allies within 20 feet gain a +2 morale bonus to Strength, Constitution, and Dexterity, and Fast Healing 2. This effect lasts for 5 rounds. Activating this ability is a swift action.

The Pack of Ragamuffins: Upon activating this ability, the Storysinger may grant choose one ally within 30 feet. That ally gains a +10 bonus to their movement speeds, and for the duration of this story, whenever they would move more than ten feet in a round, they deal an additional +1d6 damage on all attacks, and gain a +1 dodge bonus to Armor Class. This effect lasts for 4 rounds. Activating this ability is a swift action.

Brother and Sister: Upon activating this ability, the Storysinger must choose one ally within 30 feet. That ally gains a +3 competency bonus to Sense Motive checks, and whenever they successfully make a Will save for interacting with an Illusion, they heal 1d6 points of damage, and the Illusion is immediately dispelled. The caster of the Illusion, if they are within 30 feet of the Illusion upon its being destroyed take 1d6 damage. This effect lasts for 5 rounds. Activating this ability is a swift action.

Rapunzel: Upon activating this ability, the Storysinger must choose one enemy within 30 feet. That enemy immediately falls prone, and must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 Storysinger level + Storysinging ability modifier) or become blinded. This effect lasts for 3 rounds. They take 2 point of damage every round that they remain prone, and take 2d4 points of damage when they try to get back up. Activating this ability is a move action.

The Three Little Men in the Wood: Upon activating this ability the Storysinger affects all allies and enemies within 30 feet. Whenever an ally successfully grants another ally a bonus via Aid Another or flanks with an ally and that ally successfully hits the flanked enemy, they heal 2 points of damage. Whenever an enemy fails to grant another enemy a bonus via Aid Another or flanks with an enemy and that enemy fails to hit the flanked enemy, they take 2 points of damage. All enemies take a -2 penalty to any check to Aid Another, and to attack rolls. All allies gain a +2 bonus to any check to Aid Another, and to attack rolls. This effect lasts for 3 rounds. Activating this ability is a swift action.

The White Snake: Upon activating this ability the Storysinger must choose one ally within 30 feet. That ally gains the ability to speak with animals, as the Speak With Animals spell. Three times during the duration of this ability, the ally may summon an animal from the surroundings, as a standard action. This functions exactly as the Summon Nature’s Ally II spell, but they cannot summon Elementals. They may use Charisma based skills with animals as if those animals were not of Intelligence 2. This effect lasts for 5 rounds. Activating this ability is a swift action.

The Three Snake Leaves: Upon activating this ability, the Storysinger must choose one dead creature within 30 feet. She reanimates them, as the Animate Dead spell. They count as technically living for all effects and purposes, including positive energy and healing, but they can be turned and controlled as if they were undead. They gain the evil alignment, and are just as disposed to attack the Storysinger’s allies as her enemies. At the end of the effect, the creature dies again, remaining in whatever physical state their body was in just before dying a second time. This effect lasts for 5 rounds.

[Edit]: Just finished all of the Stories and have added them to the list. I skipped two stories because there was absolutely no way for me to work Hansel and Gretel or the Three Spinners.

[The Anarresti]

I see your point, and there are a few ways I'd like to respond.

First and foremost, my goal with this setting is to "keep the last few pages blank," so to speak. As far as I'm concerned, my job as a worldbuilder is to create potential and opportunity--always according to a unifying vision--rather than try to provide for the needs of everyone. Some people are going to want all that "small magic" in every single village, and some aren't. To that end, I want to build to the point where either could be possible, then let the individual tables decide on their own which path to take. If I've failed to do that, then I definitely want to know about it, but in general I think they way I've gone about describing things should be adequate.

Second, the aforementioned "unifying vision" that I'm trying to build is--like the Grimm tales--a little darkier and grittier than you would at first suspect. People live in the midst of magic, but more often than not it comes at a price that's not worth paying, or is used to malignant ends. That creates a hefty dose of superstition amongst certain groups of people. Here's the way I picture it right now:

Woodfolk (from the Blackwood): Surrounded by magic that hurts more than it helps. Very superstitious. Very wary.

Riverfolk (from the Way): Not exposed to much magic, but almost every one of them has a "friend of a friend" who saw a Waymaiden or fell under a curse or something. Pretty superstitious, but pretty skeptical.

Elderfolk (from the Elder Kingdom): Inundated in magic that has helped them to live fairly advanced, healthy lives. They consider magic to be something like a spiritual gift. Not terribly superstitious, and more-or-less welcoming of it. This is your typical "idealized" fairy tale kingdom, the place where people have invisible helpers and enchanted items and stuff. Their tales have spread across the whole of the Blackwood, but they are more or less isolated from travel and immigration.

Does that do anything to answer your concerns?

Right, I see now. That makes a lot of sense, actually, especially the part about "keeping the last few pages blank." Also, the part about people usually avoiding instead of embracing it.
My next question now is, to what extent does magic pervade the Elder Kingdom, really? Is it more like a subtle, spiritual thing that ensures good harvests and protects from wandering trolls, or is it the kind of place you could buy a flying carpet from a roadside vendor?
Also, what about other areas? Koss, Freeport, the Grey Folly area? What are their views on such things? And where is Cerai, I can't find it on the map. I assume that's the Western empire? Why not have that be a relatively new thing, in contrast to the small, stable Elder Kingdom?
The witches really intruge me. Were you thinking Baba Yaga type witches, barely human? Human magic users? Or something in between, like Serafina Pekkala (my personal favorite).
I'm really inuendating you with questions here, which probably shows how much I love this setting. :smallbiggrin:
And, do you have any examples of common superstitions (that may or may not work, at the DM's option). I would be happy to write up some of these "flavorful tidbits," such as slang, superstition and common practices, probably by researching such things as they existed in the real world, if you like.

[Zap Dynamic]

My next question now is, to what extent does magic pervade the Elder Kingdom, really? Is it more like a subtle, spiritual thing that ensures good harvests and protects from wandering trolls, or is it the kind of place you could buy a flying carpet from a roadside vendor?
Definitely more of the subtle kind. I don't picture any really overt magic anywhere in the Blackwood. In my mind, the Elder Kingdom is this sort of idyllic, shangri-la-esque place where (like you said), crops are always plentiful, the weather is very rarely bad, and peace reigns. To draw out the wuxia influence, you might compare the Elder Kingdom with the perfect ancestral dynasties that Confucius talks about. In one way or another, I imagine all the good things the people of the Blackwood possess (civilization, laws, etc.) came from the Elder Kingdom, whether or not the people of the Blackwood realize it.


Also, what about other areas? Koss, Freeport, the Grey Folly area? What are their views on such things?

Much less magical interference. Weather patterns and growing cycles are as per standard RL stuff. There also isn't as much in the way of great wisdom or learning, compared to the Elder Kingdom. The idea is that when you descend from the Elder Kingdom into the wood, you leave the ideal world behind. You go from benefiting from magic to having to deal with it.


The witches really intruge me. Were you thinking Baba Yaga type witches, barely human? Human magic users? Or something in between, like Serafina Pekkala (my personal favorite).

There was talking further back in the thread about having one/a few Baba Yaga types, and I encourage that. For the most part, I picture witches to be humans with magical skill, rather than sub/super/pre/post/whatever humans. Serafina (as I remember her) would fit in with my vision of the Elves, though she would only be one representation of that highly-varied race of creatures.

Of course, this question gets into the grey area of stuff that I'd like to leave open to the interpretation of individual tables. I'm hesitant to define it, because I think it would be fun for people to draw their own conclusions.


And, do you have any examples of common superstitions (that may or may not work, at the DM's option). I would be happy to write up some of these "flavorful tidbits," such as slang, superstition and common practices, probably by researching such things as they existed in the real world, if you like.

This is another thing that I had planned on keeping vague. People may carry a charm or trinket to ward against evil, and they may have hand gestures and things like that, but I don't feel compelled to elaborate on them beyond indicating that they are things that happen.

That said, if you'd like to come up with stuff, if it's good material then I'll be sure to include it in the "Recommended Homebrew" section!

UPDATE: I've posted the first 2/3 of the section on "The River." As I'm going through and putting these things up, I would LOVE for anyone and everyone to give it a read through, critiquing word choice, grammar, and general flavor. :smallsmile:

[The Anarresti]

So, when you do get your Blackwoods game up and running, what game system do you intend to use? Thief, Warrior, Mage?

[Eldest]

So, when you do get your Blackwoods game up and running, what game system do you intend to use? Thief, Warrior, Mage?

YOU!
Where did you get your LGBT sig thing?!?
(Completely off topic, I realize, but I've been trying to figure out who made those for months...)

[unosarta]

Storysinger


http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/261/d/5/gypsy_fortune_teller_by_dianimator-d2yz1kp.jpg
[0] (http://dianimator.deviantart.com/art/Gypsy-Fortune-Teller-179674297)

HD: d6
Class Skills: The Storysinger's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disguise (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Listen (Wis), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Speak Language (None), Spellcraft (Int), and Use Magic Device (Cha).
Skill Points: 6+ Int

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special|0|1|2

1st|
+0|
+0|
+2|
+2|Archetype, Spellcasting, Singer of Stories|3|-|-

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+3|
+3|Lesser Archetype Power|3|1|-

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+3|
+3|Singer of Heroes|3|2|-

4th|
+3|
+1|
+4|
+4|Moderate Archetype Power, Unite|3|3|1

5th|
+3|
+1|
+4|
+4|Mythsight, Tapestry of Mind|4|3|2

6th|
+4|
+2|
+5|
+5|Greater Archetype Power, Singer of Epics|4|3|3[/table]

Proficiencies: The Storysinger is proficient with all simple weapons and two martial weapons of her choice. She is also proficient with light armor and light shields.

Archetype: At first level, the Storysinger chooses an archetype from the list below. She gains the advantages and abilities at the appropriate levels, as indicated on the list. Once this choice is made, it is final.

Spellcasting: The Storysinger casts arcane spells from a specialized list, which is included below. The Storysinger need not prepare spells ahead of time - she may spontaneously cast any spell on her list from the appropriate slot. She still requires eight hours of rest to refresh her spells. Her sole casting stat is the ability score chosen through the Singer of Stories, which dictates both the DC of her spells and her bonus spells. To cast a spell, the Storysinger must have a chosen ability score equal to 10 + the level of spell in question.

Singer of Stories (Ex): The Storysinger gains a number of uses of Storysinging per encounter equal to her choice of her Intelligence, Wisdom, or Intelligence modifier, or 3, whichever is lower. She must choose whether to have Intelligence, Wisdom, or Charisma affect this ability at first level, and may not change that choice thereafter. She gains access to the following stories, all of which cost 1 use of Storysinging to activate.
The Frog King: Upon using this story, the Storysinger grants one ally within 30 feet the ability to strike a magical effect and attempt to dispel it. They must make a melee or ranged attack roll, and if they hit, may attempt to dispel a magical effect from the thing they struck. They roll a d20 and add the Storysinger’s caster level to the dispel check. If they are successful, one beneficial magical effect is removed from an enemy, or a harmful magical effect is removed from an ally. The magical effect is chosen at random. The ally may use this at any time during the encounter, but after using it, they may not dispel again, and if they do not use it before the encounter ends, the use fades. Activating this ability is a move action.

The Cat and Mouse in Partnership: Upon using this story, the Storysinger grants two allies within 30 feet the ability to work together in tandem. Whenever those allies flank a target, they gain an additional +2 competency bonus to attack rolls and damage rolls made against that target. In addition, whenever one of them successfully hits an opponent flanked by the other, they heal one hit point, and the other ally loses one hit point. This effect lasts for 3 rounds. Activating this ability is a swift action.

Mary’s Child: Upon activating this story, the Storysinger grants one ally within 30 feet a +4 competency bonus to Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate checks. Whenever they successfully make a Bluff, Diplomacy, or Intimidate check, they take 1 point of damage. This damage may not be avoided, and cannot be healed. Upon their third check, they heal 3d6 damage and gain the effects of the Zone of Truth spell, only affecting their person, and cannot attempt any Bluff, Diplomacy, or Intimidate checks for the next hour. This story lasts until the end of the encounter, if used during combat, or for one hour outside of combat. Activating this ability is a move action.

The Story of the Youth Who Went Forth to Learn What Fear Was: Upon activating this ability, the Storysinger grants all allies within 30 feet a +4 morale bonus to Will saves against Fear effects. In addition, all allies within 30 feet gain a +1 bonus to Armor Class and attack rolls. This effect lasts for 2 rounds. Activating this ability is a move action.

The Wolf and the Seven Young Kids: Upon activating this story, the Storysinger may force one enemy within 30 feet to make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 Storysinger level + Storysinging ability modifier) or focus on her. For the duration of this ability, if the enemy failed the save, they may not attack any creature but the Storysinger. If they successfully hit the Storysinger, their land speed is reduced by half for 1 round. Multiple hits reduce their speed by half again, and also refresh the duration of the movement speed penalty. This ability lasts for 4 rounds. Activating this ability is a swift action.

Lesser Archetype Power: Starting at second level, the Storysinger gains the appropriate power for her archetype.

Singer of Heroes (Ex): Starting at third level, the Storysinger gains an additional use of her Storysinging ability, and can play the following songs, which cost two uses of Storysinging to activate.
Trusty John: Upon activating this ability, the Storysinger must choose one enemy within 30 feet. If that enemy takes more than one action, or a single full round action, they take 1d4 damage, and must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 Storysinger levels + Storysinging ability modifier) or be Dazed for one round. This effect lasts for 3 rounds. Activating this ability is a move action.

The Good Bargain: Upon activating this ability, the Storysinger must choose one creature within 30 feet. They take a -2 penalty on all Intelligence based checks, and for the duration of the story, whenever they fail a Knowledge based check, they heal 1 point of damage. In addition, all opponents within 10 feet of that creature take a -3 penalty to all Intelligence based checks. This ability lasts for 5 rounds. Activating this ability is a move action.

The Wonderful Musician: Upon activating this ability, all enemies may only attack the Storysinger. However, the Storysinger gains a +2 competency bonus to Armor Class, and any time an opponent attempts to attack the Storysinger, the Storysinger’s allies may move up to 10 feet towards the Storysinger, and all attacks made against the Storysinger provoke an attack of opportunity at a +2 bonus to the attack roll for allies. This effect lasts for 2 rounds. Activating this ability is a swift action.

The Twelve Brothers: Upon activating this ability, the Storysinger may choose one ally within 30 feet. That ally may not take any actions for the next round, besides moving. If they do, all allies within 20 feet gain a +2 morale bonus to Strength, Constitution, and Dexterity, and Fast Healing 2. This effect lasts for 5 rounds. Activating this ability is a swift action.

The Pack of Ragamuffins: Upon activating this ability, the Storysinger may grant choose one ally within 30 feet. That ally gains a +10 bonus to their movement speeds, and for the duration of this story, whenever they would move more than ten feet in a round, they deal an additional +1d6 damage on all attacks, and gain a +1 dodge bonus to Armor Class. This effect lasts for 4 rounds. Activating this ability is a swift action.


Unite: Starting at fourth level, the Storysinger may unite allies with but words. Once per encounter, the Storysinger may grant allies a +1 competency bonus to attack and damage rolls made while flanking per ally flanking a single enemy. Allies also gain a +1 bonus to armor class per ally within 10 feet. This effect lasts 1d4 rounds, plus a number of rounds equal to one half of the Storysinger’s Storysinger levels. Activating this ability is a standard action.

Moderate Archetype Power: Starting at fourth level, the Storysinger gains the appropriate power for her archetype.

Mythsight (Su): Starting at fifth level, the Storysinger may use the Analyse Dweomer spell once per day, as a full round action. She is always considered under the effects of the Detect Magic spell.

Tapestry of Mind (Su): Starting at fifth level, the Storysinger may weave a tapestry out of stories and illusions. By spending a full round action, and spending all of her Storysinging uses, and casting one [Figment] spell of at least first level, the Storysinger may create a vast, beautiful Tapestry. All creatures with an Intelligence 2 or lower within 300 feet are drawn to the tapestry, and take 2d4x2 minutes to reach it. All creatures with 3 Intelligence or above who see the tapestry, or even catch a glance, must make a Will save or be fascinated, as the bardic music ability. The DC for the will save for this effect is (DC 10 + 1/2 Storysinger levels + Storysinging ability modifier). The tapestry lasts for 1d4x10 minutes, or until the end of the encounter, whichever comes first.

Greater Archetype Power: Starting at sixth level, the Storysinger gains the appropriate power for her archetype.

Singer of Epics (Ex): Starting at sixth level, the Storysinger gains two additional uses of her Storysinging ability, and can play the following songs, which cost three uses of Storysinging to activate.
Brother and Sister: Upon activating this ability, the Storysinger must choose one ally within 30 feet. That ally gains a +3 competency bonus to Sense Motive checks, and whenever they successfully make a Will save for interacting with an Illusion, they heal 1d6 points of damage, and the Illusion is immediately dispelled. The caster of the Illusion, if they are within 30 feet of the Illusion upon its being destroyed take 1d6 damage. This effect lasts for 5 rounds. Activating this ability is a swift action.

Rapunzel: Upon activating this ability, the Storysinger must choose one enemy within 30 feet. That enemy immediately falls prone, and must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 Storysinger level + Storysinging ability modifier) or become blinded. This effect lasts for 3 rounds. They take 2 point of damage every round that they remain prone, and take 2d4 points of damage when they try to get back up. Activating this ability is a move action.

The Three Little Men in the Wood: Upon activating this ability the Storysinger affects all allies and enemies within 30 feet. Whenever an ally successfully grants another ally a bonus via Aid Another or flanks with an ally and that ally successfully hits the flanked enemy, they heal 2 points of damage. Whenever an enemy fails to grant another enemy a bonus via Aid Another or flanks with an enemy and that enemy fails to hit the flanked enemy, they take 2 points of damage. All enemies take a -2 penalty to any check to Aid Another, and to attack rolls. All allies gain a +2 bonus to any check to Aid Another, and to attack rolls. This effect lasts for 3 rounds. Activating this ability is a swift action.

The White Snake: Upon activating this ability the Storysinger must choose one ally within 30 feet. That ally gains the ability to speak with animals, as the Speak With Animals spell. Three times during the duration of this ability, the ally may summon an animal from the surroundings, as a standard action. This functions exactly as the Summon Nature’s Ally II spell, but they cannot summon Elementals. They may use Charisma based skills with animals as if those animals were not of Intelligence 2. This effect lasts for 5 rounds. Activating this ability is a swift action.

The Three Snake Leaves: Upon activating this ability, the Storysinger must choose one dead creature within 30 feet. She reanimates them, as the Animate Dead spell. They count as technically living for all effects and purposes, including positive energy and healing, but they can be turned and controlled as if they were undead. They gain the evil alignment, and are just as disposed to attack the Storysinger’s allies as her enemies. At the end of the effect, the creature dies again, remaining in whatever physical state their body was in just before dying a second time. This effect lasts for 5 rounds.


Archetypes


Harmonist


http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs38/i/2011/007/f/e/the_story_teller_color_by_rickbw1-d1pel7j.jpg
[1] (http://rickbw1.deviantart.com/art/The-Story-Teller-color-103137247)

Lesser Archetype Power: By spending one use of the Harmonist’s Storysinging ability, the Harmonist may grant two characters within 30 feet of herself the ability to share thoughts. Those characters gain Telepathy 100, but may only communicate with each other. In addition, they gain a +3 competency bonus to all attack and damage rolls made when within 10 feet of each other, and whenever one of them makes a full attack and hits with all attacks, that enemy provokes an attack of opportunity from the other creature. This effect lasts for 3 rounds, and the Harmonist may increase the duration by spending an additional use of Storysinging in order to increase it by one round.

Moderate Archetype Power: The Harmonist gains a +3 bonus to all Diplomacy checks. Whenever she uses Aid Another with an ally, that ally gains an additional +1 bonus to the attempted roll, and the Harmonist gains 2 temporary hit points. If they succeed, then the Harmonist and that ally both gain a +1 competency bonus with the skill that they succeeded on for 3 rounds. Following successes stack, but do not refresh the ability. This ability may only be used on with ally per encounter.

Greater Archetype Power: Once per day, the Harmonist may spend two uses of her Storysinging ability in order to harmonize all allies within 30 feet. They gain a Hivemind (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=194605) until the end of the encounter, and whenever an ally who is part of the hivemind successfully hits a target, all other allies gain a +1 morale bonus to attack and damage rolls made against that target. This ability stacks with itself, and successive hits refresh the duration of the ability. This effect lasts until the end of the encounter.




Teller of Tales


http://fc07.deviantart.net/fs9/i/2006/068/6/7/Story_Teller_by_ericdalrymple.jpg
[2] (http://ericdalrymple.deviantart.com/art/Story-Teller-30121687)

Lesser Archetype Power: The Teller of Tales may spend a use of her Storysinging ability as a standard action, and force all enemies within 30 feet to make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 Storysinger level + Storysinging ability modifier) or be Fascinated, as the Bard song, for as long as she Concentrates. Every time a member of the Fascinated group is damaged, the Teller of Tales must make a Concentration check with a DC equal to the damage, or the effect breaks. Concentrating on this ability is a move action.

Moderate Archetype Power: Any enemy who is currently under the effects of your Stories takes a -2 penalty to Armor Class, and takes an additional 1 damage from any melee or ranged attack.

Greater Archetype Power: Once per day, the Teller of Tales may spend two uses of her Storysinging ability as a standard action, and force one target within 30 feet to make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 Storysinger level + Storysinging ability modifier) or be Dominated, as the spell. The Teller of Tales must spend a full round action each round in order to maintain control over the Dominated creature. If they Teller of Tales takes any damage at all during this time, she breaks concentration automatically and loses control of the Dominated creature. In order to maintain control over the Dominated creature, the Teller of Tales must speak or make a sound every round and direct the creature verbally. The creature does not necessarily have to understand the Teller of Tales in order to be Dominated. As soon as the encounter ends, this effect also ends.



Chastiser


http://fc06.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2010/128/7/3/The_story_teller_by_Zentagas.jpg
[3] (http://zentagas.deviantart.com/art/The-story-teller-163356016)

Lesser Archetype Power: The Chastiser may, by spending a use of her Storysinging ability, send a fear of the weird and supernatural into those who listen to her, as a standard action. All enemies within 30 feet must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 Storysinger level + Storysinging ability modifier) or become Shaken. All allies gain a +1 morale bonus to attack and damage rolls, the fear driving them to greater feats of martial prowess. This effect lasts for 2 rounds.

Moderate Archetype Power: Whenever an enemy is affected by a Story that the Chastiser tells, they must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 Storysinger level + Storysinging ability modifier) or be Shaken for one round. Once an enemy is affected by this ability, they are immune to it until the end of the encounter.

Greater Archetype Power: The Chastiser may, by spending two uses of her Storysinging ability, send a fear so strong into an enemy within 30 feet that they may not move. That enemy must make a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 Storysinger level + Storysinging ability modifier) or be stunned for one round. If they make their Will save, they are instead panicked for 3 rounds. Once an enemy has been affected by this ability, they are immune for 24 hours. Activating this ability is a standard action.




Storyweaver


http://fc02.deviantart.net/fs71/i/2010/028/a/5/Black_Fox_by_ZerachielAmora.png
[4] (http://zerachielamora.deviantart.com/art/Black-Fox-152119087)

Lesser Archetype Power: The Storyweaver may, by spending a use of her Storysinging ability, create a [Figment] effect, as if casting the Silent Image spell. At Third level, this becomes as if casting the Minor Image spell. At fifth level, it becomes as if casting the Major image spell. This effect does not require the Storyweaver to maintain concentration for it to remain. This ability lasts for 3 rounds.

Moderate Archetype Power: Whenever a creature interacts with the Storyweaver’s Illusions and successfully makes the Will save or has their Spell Resistance beat the Storyweaver’s caster level check, they take 2d6 non-Lethal damage. In addition, the Storyweaver’s Illusions, as long as they have not been interacted with by the enemy, can count as flanking that enemy as long as they are adjacent to that enemy.

Greater Archetype Power: Once per day, the Storyweaver may, by spending four uses of her Storysinging ability, cast the Mirage Arcana spell, and create up to three [Figment] effects, as if she had cast the Major Image spell thrice. She must concentrate in order to maintain this effect, and any damage causes her to automatically fail concentration and remove the illusions. Concentrating to maintain this effect requires a full round action each round. The Storyweaver may only concentrate up to a number of rounds equal to the ability score used with her Storysinging ability. Activating this ability is a full round action.




Folklorist


http://th00.deviantart.net/fs41/PRE/f/2009/049/2/e/Story_Teller_by_Lelia.jpg
[5] (http://lelia.deviantart.com/art/Story-Teller-112791542)

Lesser Archetype Power: The Folklorist may, by spending a use of her Storysinging ability as a standard action, gain a +4 bonus to any Knowledge check made to identify a monster, and gains a +1 bonus to all attack and damage rolls made against creatures who have been identified by the Folklorist this encounter. For the duration of this effect, they may use any Knowledge skill untrained. This ability lasts for 3 rounds.

Moderate Archetype Power: The Folklorist gains a +3 competency bonus to all Knowledge checks involving creatures upon whom she has used her Storysinging ability in the concurrent encounter. She gains the Lore ability, as Bardic Knowledge but using her Storysinger level instead of Bard level.

Greater Archetype Power: Once per day, the Folklorist may, by spending two use of her Storysinging ability as a standard action, know everything about all creatures within 50 feet. She gains Telepathy out to 50 feet. She knows the thoughts of all creatures that she can speak with Telepathically, and automatically makes any Knowledge checks that she attempts to find information about those creatures. This effect lasts until the end of the encounter, or for one minute, whichever comes first.



Spell List

0th: Arcane Mark, Dancing Lights, Daze, Detect Magic, Flare, Ghost Sound, Lullaby, Mage Hand, Mending, Message, Prestidigitation, Read Magic,, Resistance.

1st: Alarm, Charm Person, Comprehend Languages, Erase, Hideous Laughter, Hypnotism, Identify, Lesser Confusion, Magic Mouth, Silent Image, Sleep, Unseen Servant, Ventriloquism.

2nd: Alter Self, Calm Emotions, Darkness, Daze Monster, Detect Thoughts, Enthrall, Heroism, Invisibility, Minor Image, Mirror Image, Rage, Scare, Silence, Suggestion, Tongues, Whispering Wind.

[Zap Dynamic]

So, when you do get your Blackwoods game up and running, what game system do you intend to use? Thief, Warrior, Mage?


I will definitely be using WRM, but I was planning on using E6 for a long while. WRM is just exactly the way I envision the setting; it was really no contest, no matter how much I enjoy E6.

Unosarta, thanks a ton for that class! I'm exhausted, but I'll give it a read through bright and early tomorrow morning. Just to make sure, you submitted it to Gnorman's thread too, right?

[unosarta]

Unosarta, thanks a ton for that class! I'm exhausted, but I'll give it a read through bright and early tomorrow morning. Just to make sure, you submitted it to Gnorman's thread too, right?

Hahaha, no problem. It was fun. I have not submitted it to his thread yet, but I will go do that right now...

[Zap Dynamic]

The Class looks good! I'm start off by saying that I have next to no idea what a balanced class looks like.

That said, it looks pretty good to these eyes. It's got a lot of nice flavor (especially that capstone ability!), but I find myself wondering about something:

Mythsight: Constant effect Arcane Sight seems kind of powerful. It fits the subtlety of the setting just fine, AS is a pretty powerful ability, right?

[unosarta]

The Class looks good! I'm start off by saying that I have next to no idea what a balanced class looks like.

That said, it looks pretty good to these eyes. It's got a lot of nice flavor (especially that capstone ability!), but I find myself wondering about something:

Mythsight: Constant effect Arcane Sight seems kind of powerful. It fits the subtlety of the setting just fine, AS is a pretty powerful ability, right?

Oh, that is a good point! I was pretty much trying to port a few class features over from the original, which had permanent Greater Arcane Sight, and I just put it at the lower one. I forgot that AS is a third level spell. I will probably just give them a constant Detect Magic. The ability isn't supposed to be that powerful at all, so that would make much more sense.

[Zap Dynamic]

"The River" now has a "Factions" section. Check it out.

*Disclaimer* I wrote it while I was under the influence of a commendable amount of alcohol, so any criticism you have would be great.

[Landis963]

Not much I can see, problem-wise, apart from a few typos (although commendably few given the amount of alcohol you said you were on at the time).

However, my new thread here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12909174) contains my campaign world. If you would be so kind as to look it over and post a comment, that would be most appreciated.

[unosarta]

So, I wrote another story. This one involves more fantasy-children's tale elements, but it was still really fun to write. I am thinking I want to make Johan a thing, that I can continue to write about. I don't know the direction that I want to take him, but it will be interesting. :smallbiggrin:


Johan and the Gnolls

This story starts as all of the great ones do; once upon a time there was a little boy. He would grow into a large boy and then a man, in time, but for now we care with only his young self. They called the boy Johan, and Johan was the son of a blacksmith. As you must be thinking, “not a very illustrious position,” and “why would such a lowly person be the subject of our story?” Well, Johan would not stay a young boy for long, and in time grew to be the greatest man in his land. But when he was young, Johan was bullied and picked on. He grew up in a small village outside of the royal lands surrounding the capitol. He was slight, and a rather thin boy. The other children in his village would thrash him mightily, and seeing as his mother had died many years ago, he had no one to go to. His father would look at him and give him a pitying look, and say that he should deal with his problems himself. He felt constantly alone, and would spend much of his time in the woods, quietly crying. It is there that we find him on this day.

The woods were full of terrible monsters, so Johan would hide in the trees, high up away from where any of them could touch him, afraid but preferring the danger to his life in the village. The animals of the forest would find him and play with him. He found it much more comforting than the squalid squeals of the town children. The animals instinctively loved . It just so happened that there was a fearsome band of gnolls who were terrorizing the village in which Johan lived. They would come every week, and demand food and money, or else they would slaughter the whole village. There was no doubt in any of the villager’s minds that they would easily be able to kill them all. Of course, they would come at midday, the exact time when Johan wanted least to be in town, near the other children. He never saw the gnolls, and was otherwise completely unaware they existed.

The day that we come upon is the fast day, and all of the villagers were in the church, praying and fasting. Johan would not step a foot inside the church, for that is where his mother died. He stayed in the woods that day, away from the general stillness and silence of the town. It is in the woods that he came upon a seemingly abandoned camp. The fire had been recently stamped out, and although the sun was still low in the sky, there were signs that the occupants of the camp had been drinking. Johan was wary, and heard the crashing in the underbrush several minutes before it actually came upon the camp, and was able to climb into the trees. He found a nest of squirrels and a sparrow living up in the tree, and started to play with them while watching the camp below. The gnolls, a creature that Johan had previously never seen came into the camp, all uproariously drunk except for what Johan thought was the leader. He was tall, silver-haired, and hideously scarred. His right eye was cut out, and not even covered. His visage was horrifying, but what unnerved Johan was the way that he casually leaned back against a tree, next to the corpse of some large woodland creature, inefficiently butchered and lain bloody against the tree, and how he held the creature’s head, examining it with precise and vicious eyes.

It was with those eyes that Johan was spotted. The leader looked up to the tree, and growled something long and low before looking away quickly. Johan assumed that he was looking at something lower on the tree, right until he was forcibly pulled from the tree. They threw him on the ground, and were about to stab him when the leader held up his hands. There was an instant hush that settled around the monsters. The leader pulled a dagger, and advanced towards the little boy, cleaning his fingernails with the dagger, the blade easily twice as long as Johan’s face. The gnoll licked the blade and the rubbed the spittle onto Johan’s face. He sniffed the red flesh of Johan’s bruised face which had been struck upon falling from the tree. He shuddered slightly at the smell, either of pleasure or horror, Johan could not tell.

“I know what you want,” said Johan, his voice cracking and stuttering from fear.

“Do you, little boy?” The gnoll’s breath smelled like raw garlic and blood.

“Y-you w-want to eat me, a-and th-then kill all of the p-people in the v-village.”

The gnoll laughed. “No, the current arrangement is far too lucrative for anything so vulgar. We simply want a little added element of... terror added to your little hamlet. We will burn the church at sundown, kill the priest, maybe a few townsfolk too, if we get hungry. But first we have to remove one little problem element...” The gnoll shouted at the others, and they lifted up a great big pot, and set it over the fire that had been stoked while Johan wasn’t watching. The pot was filled with stream water, a few fish live fish (presumably from the stream, gnolls aren’t exactly the most discerning of creatures), some carrots, onions, and a huge pile of salt. They were making a stew of him.



As is par for the course for gnolls, they had forgotten one key element. In the excitement to boil the little boy stew and get some good grub before they went to burn the church, they did not look around for spies. The squirrel and birds that Johan had been playing with watched the whole scene with trepidation. They knew the blood thirst of the gnolls, and the hunger that drives many of their schemes, and knew they would need help. They went to the gathering place of the animals, and called the badger, the owl, the fox, the fieldmouse, and the deer.

“What are we doing here?” asked the badger. He was in the middle of his midday-nap, and had no patience for idle chatter.

“It looks like squirrel and sparrow have some news for us, badger, so why don’t you just sit down on that slick little rump of yours and listen to what they have to say,” said fox. He was smooth and sly, and none of the other animals really liked him. Johan had found him funny and interesting, and had become quick friends.

Squirrel and sparrow were panting, and they had to wait a few seconds to get their breath back before they could tell the animals of the events in the camp. “Some... gnolls... took Johan... boil... stew...” Squirrel managed to squeak out.

“The gnolls are making stew with Johan? I thought gnolls hated humans?” said fieldmouse. She was not altogether that smart, and took many of her ques from squirrel, who was her close friend.

“No, dummy, Johan is making a stew out of gnolls. And good for him, too, I say! Those gnolls are quite mean, and they deserve what they get.” Said deer. She was quite self-sure, and thought she always knew right.

“Shush, all of you! We must let them speak and hear what they have to say.” Shouted owl. Owl was patient and wise, and knew that squabbling could only take up more time that was precious if their friend was in trouble.

“The gnolls... have taken Johan... and are boiling him into a stew. We must.. hurry!” Sparrow gasped, and then fell onto the forest floor, dead tired from their flight over, fast asleep.

The animals went as quick as they could to the camp where Johan was. They found the gnolls still fussing with the pot, but some of them, including the leader, were gone. They had no way of defeating the gnolls still there, but they could see that Johan was still alive. Fox flipped into the clearing, ran up to one of the gnolls still in the clearing, and scratched him on the face, slicing through his eyes. The gnoll screamed, and started thrashing, trying to hit the fox. The gnolls, not being very smart creatures, leaped up and started chasing the fox around. The fox ran circles around them, and led them out of the clearing. The badger and deer tried tipping the cauldron over, but it was too heavy. The fieldmouse jumped up on the cauldron, and starting splashing water on the flames. Although she could only get a little bit of water onto the flames, they hissed and sizzled, and the other animals realized what they had to do. The badger helped the deer up onto the pot, and the deer took a deep mouthful, and sprayed it onto the fire. It immediately went out.

Johan stumbled out of the pot, and upon seeing his animal friends, cried out joyously. He thanked each of them personally, and then asked where fox was. The other animals confessed that the fox had led the other gnolls away.

“Oh no! I hope he is okay,” shouted Johan, grabbing his drenched head and casting his eyes downward.

“Don’t worry, Johan, I am sure he will be fine. None can outfox the fox. In the meantime, aren’t you forgetting something?” Said the owl. When Johan looked at him with confusion, he continued, “What happened to the other gnolls?” Johan jumped up with fright upon remembering that the gnolls had said that they were heading towards the town to burn the church down.

“Oh no! We have to stop them!” He cried.

The owl nodded his beak, and flew over to Johan, picking him up gently with his claws. He lifted him clear over the trees, and took him to the town. They saw the rampaging gnolls heading through the forest, and flew past. The owl dropped Johan off in the town, and told him to let the townspeople know.

“But what can they do? There is no guard, and no one to stop the gnolls!”

“You will have to think of something.” The owl touched Johan’s forehead with his beak, and flew off to the forest. Johan stood in the center of town, thinking.



When the gnolls arrived in the village, they were surprised to find the townspeople having a feast right in the center of town. There were luscious steaks, pounds upon pounds of potatoes and carrots, glazed with sugar and honey, and huge roasts of pork and chicken. A barrel of cider had been pulled out of the church cellar and brought to the table, where it was on tap for all to drink. The table of the feast had quite a few seats open, and the villagers quickly offered the seats to the gnolls, who were understandably famished. The leader was wary, but at the insistance of his men and of the townsfolk, he sat at the table.

The gnolls tucked in, eating quite a lot more than the villagers. While the gnolls were eating, Johan and the squirrel were running around under the tables, and tying their feet to the chairs. When the gnolls finished, and began to try to extort more from the village, the sparrow and the owl started pecking out their eyes.

Johan, after driving off the gnolls, was held in universal esteem. The whole village treated him like a hero, and the children all wanted to play with him. However, he remembered their slights and threats, and knew better than to try to be friends with people such as them. He stayed in the forest with his animal friends.

While the gnolls were unable to see, the villagers deposited them on the outskirts of town and sent them off on their way. The gnolls were robbed and stolen from, eventually reaching the head of the Bandit King’s lands, in the Bracken. They told the Bandit King of the young boy’s actions, and the Bandit King found himself intrigued. However, that is a story for another day, and another time. You children behave yourselves, and I might tell that story tomorrow. Now, the story is over and the hero has made the day better, and it is time for us to go to bed, for sleep is fleeting, and I am in need of a good solid mattress if I am to continue telling stories.

[The Anarresti]

Do the river nobles have hard-and-fast inheritable titles, or it is more of an informal, shifting nobility?

[Zap Dynamic]

Do the river nobles have hard-and-fast inheritable titles, or it is more of an informal, shifting nobility?

I imagine the nobles at the top are inherited titles, but lesser nobility can come to earn their title. For instance, the Lord of Three Rivers might be a direct descendant of the semi-mythical founder of the city, whereas one of his advisers might have become a lord by distinguishing himself as a trader.

However, this isn't information that I will publish. By maintaining the vagueness common in fairy tales, I leave the proverbial ellipses that allow for greater creativity at the table. "Leaving the option open" has become a very major theme of this setting.

[Zap Dynamic]

Update:

The section on "The Elder Kingdom" is up! It's short and sweet, which is exactly how I want it. In my mind, this is the sort of place that one hears about over the course of several adventures before actually visiting. Half-remembered stories and tantalizing rumors are the best way to go about setting this place up.

Next up, I'll be posting some info about magic in the setting. Because I'm trying to stay system-neutral, I'm going to try my hardest to describe the dichotomy in system-neutral terms. That might be posted as early as this evening!

After that, I think the second post in the thread will transform into a collection of tales. I may end up posting them here, spoilered, in their entirety, rather than linking to them on my blog.

[unosarta]

What about the magic makes it difficult to explain without including system terms?

Also, the inclusion of possible ToB groups in the Elder Kingdom makes me quite happy. :smallbiggrin:

[Zap Dynamic]

What about the magic makes it difficult to explain without including system terms?

Also, the inclusion of possible ToB groups in the Elder Kingdom makes me quite happy. :smallbiggrin:

It's not really that it will be difficult, it was just a disclaimer, I guess. At first I thought about describing magic two different ways: from the perspective of the players, and from the perspective of the characters. At this point, I think I can accomplish what I need to by describing it from the POV of the characters for the benefit of the players, but we'll see.

Long story short: I'll be laying out magic in terms of either "sorcery" or "works of faith."

While I was kicking around the idea of using 3.5 (before I found E6 and--eventually--WRM), ToB was one of the major things I wanted to accommodate. I love the mechanics involved, and it fits in with a lot of wuxia stuff flavor-wise. Theoretically, the Sentinels, Spearwood Brothers, hunters, and even town watch could all use ToB disciplines.

I think you may be thinking that the "Nine Swords" are an homage to ToB, though, and they're not. While they would almost certainly use ToB disciplines if the table decided to include that book, that's not the reason why I named them what I did. Nine is an auspicious number in Chinese culture (as the largest single digit, AND as the result of 3x3, since 3 is another auspicious number for them), and I've included it in a lot of this setting. It's not something that you would notice without seeing all of my notes, but 9 and its multiples are everywhere. For example, every region's population density is based on [a multiple of 9 people/sq. mi.].

[Zap Dynamic]

UPDATE:

The magic section is posted! It's a rough draft at this point, because I'd like to give it another read tomorrow and decide if that's everything I need to cover on the subject. Theoretically, the first post should now be a guide containing everything a player needs to know to create a character in this world.

The second post will eventually be reformatted to include all the information a character might possess, including a collection of all the Tales of the world. This is something that I will likely add to as the world evolves, i.e. as I run campaigns in the world, and will be pretty sparse to begin with.

The Third post will be advice for GMs about elements to emphasize to truly represent the world, as well as a collection of recommended homebrew, variant mechanics, etc.

I've got fourth and fifth posts in case I need any buffer room, but I don't think they'll be necessary. Hurrah!

Now that I've "finished" the first, I welcome the opportunity to have it torn apart by all of you fine hooligans. Does it flow easily from subject to subject? Is it clear and easy to understand (while maintaining a level of narrative intrigue, of course)? Does it seem like an exciting world that you just can't wait to play in?

[The Anarresti]

I would edit the sorcery blurb to allow for the possibility of male hedge wizards. There's no reason for the village witch to be only female, or if there is, that's the individual DM's decision. Heck, the village witch could be a young person, or could even be an empty, haunted stump that people throw money into to beg for favors.
EDIT: I'm also a little bit confused about Koss. Are people from Koss Riverfolk or Woodfolk? They're obviously not Elderfolk. And is Koss itself a whole, unified kingdom?

[Zap Dynamic]

I would edit the sorcery blurb to allow for the possibility of male hedge wizards. There's no reason for the village witch to be only female, or if there is, that's the individual DM's decision. Heck, the village witch could be a young person, or could even be an empty, haunted stump that people throw money into to beg for favors.

Good point, thanks! It's been changed.


EDIT: I'm also a little bit confused about Koss. Are people from Koss Riverfolk or Woodfolk? They're obviously not Elderfolk. And is Koss itself a whole, unified kingdom?

Good question, and for some reason I'm having a really hard time enunciating my thoughts here. I keep erasing what I've written, only to erase it again!

Koss and the Blackwood are two separate, comparably-sized regions. With that in mind, the people of the Blackwood would be separated into Wood, River, and Elderfolk. The people of Koss, on the other hand, would be separated into their own, unique groups (specifically, Winterfolk and Summerfolk), but I haven't elaborated on that because cultural things like that get boiled down when you travel to a different place. It's the same idea that a Oregonian and a Mississippian are very different to U.S. Americans, but both are just "Americans" to, say, a German.

I have this grand meta-plan in mind to eventually elaborate on the entire continent, visiting each of the regions in turn as though they were their own setting. With that in mind, I ended up deciding to leave out the section on Koss that I had thought to write for this setting, because it was straying from the task at hand: realizing the Blackwood. There are a few Kossians that make their way into the Wood (just as there are a few Cerians), but its not enough to warrant spending more time on them than I already have with their respective Tales. If people want to play them, they'll just have to wait for the next "Splatthread!" :smalltongue:

[Zap Dynamic]

A new story has been written! Have you ever been curious about what's up with the Elder King? Ever wondered where he came from, why he became a king, and what he does?

Well hopefully The Elder King (http://undertheboughs.wordpress.com/2012/03/20/the-elder-king/) will tantalize you enough to get your gears turning!

I haven't posted it in the OPs, because my project for today/tomorrow/however long it takes is to renovate the Tales section into its own post. Yeehaw!

[Zap Dynamic]

So I got a lot of stuff accomplished today. All five of the OPs have at least rough draft-level content in them, and the middle three are devoted to tales. There are quite a few placeholders on those posts right now, but I will fill them out as I have time. Next up will be "Dinner With the Elves," a tale hinting at a few of the different ways Elves manifest to the folk of Wood and River.

[unosarta]

Oh my gosh, I absolutely love the Elder King. That story is fantastically everything I associate with this setting; the Wuxia elements, the over-the-top way of the animals, the clear story-telling element. This is fantastic writing.

[Zap Dynamic]

Thanks! I have fun with it. :smallbiggrin:

[Zap Dynamic]

All right! So I've posted another story. Dinner With the Elves can be found on my blog, and also in this post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12716895#post12716895). Not all stories in the Blackwood have a happy ending.

I've also added some more material to the GMs Only section, but if you're interested in playing in the campaign I'm going to run then you really shouldn't read that. :smalltongue:

Speaking of my campaign, the thread is not yet a final draft, but it's getting dangerously close! I may post in the recruitment thread as early as this weekend, so if you're interested in playing you should start brainstorming characters! The best characters will be 70% fairy tale, 20% wuxia, and 10% old-school RPG, and 100% awesome.

[The Anarresti]

hmm... I've got a retreat this weekend, where I may have limited access to the internet. I'm scared of loosing a spot on this brewing campaign. Can I please put together a character concept and reserve a spot if you like it?

[Zap Dynamic]

hmm... I've got a retreat this weekend, where I may have limited access to the internet. I'm scared of loosing a spot on this brewing campaign. Can I please put together a character concept and reserve a spot if you like it?


Sure! I've had my pitch all typed up and waiting in the wings for a week or so now. Check it out:

System: Warrior, Rogue, and Mage (WRM) (http://www.stargazergames.eu/games/warrior-rogue-mage/)
Player Count: 2-4
Style of Play: Sandbox/exploration adventuring, with a healthy dose of RP and a few dashes of combat.
Allowed Content:
The Blackwood Campaign Setting (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232675)
Character Creation: This is a world inspired by fairy tales a la the brothers Grimm, with a fair amount of influence from wuxia fiction. The best characters will weave both of these themes together.

Backstory: You must have a description and a list of at least three people your character knows (including one family member). Info about how your character came to have the skills he/she does is highly recommended. You may add anything else you would like. The 10-Minute Background (http://community.wizards.com/richmond-rollerz/wiki/The_10_Minute_Background) is pretty cool, and more than welcome. Skirt Method, please!
WRM Stuff: Character creation is as per standard WRM rules: 10 points to distribute freely amongst abilities. See other WRM Variants below for more details.
Other Notes: For the first few adventures, this campaign will be an attempt for me to apply the sandbox/hexploration/random encounter goodness I’ve been reading about in the OSR world. Eventually, there will be an opportunity to begin a more structured campaign. Ideally, this first segment will allow players to become familiar with the world (and allow me to flesh it out a little more), and the second part will be a more carefully-crafted story. Either way, it will be awesome.

WRM Variants:
No Dragon Pistols or Dragon Rifles.
Average HP at Advancement
Characters may start out with one 1st Circle spell if they have the necessary Mage ranks. Beyond this, spells must be discovered via questing. Please note that you are encouraged make this spell seem as mundane as possible. Magic is almost feared in this setting, after all.
For the purposes of this campaign, "spellbook" is a very loose term for casters. You must have something into which you commit your spells, but it could be an actual book, knots and beads in your hair, your memory, or even something like wisps of smoke. I'm willing to consider anything that fulfills the "daily preparation" requirement of spellcasting.
Please note that WRM has nothing resembling penalties for aging. If you want, you could play as a child or as a geezer!

Everyone else is free to submit character ideas here, too. I'll be refining a few things for the rest of the week, then I'll plan on posting the spoiler'd text above in the Recruitment section sometime Friday afternoon. We'll call this a Special Invitation to the Pre-Screening of the RPG Event of a Lifetime.

[unosarta]

For the single spell known (since I am also interested in making a character), do you need to cast it from a spellbook? I am wondering because my character might have learned a simple spell from a wandering magician, but there is no way she would actually have a spellbook.

[Zap Dynamic]

For the single spell known (since I am also interested in making a character), do you need to cast it from a spellbook? I am wondering because my character might have learned a simple spell from a wandering magician, but there is no way she would actually have a spellbook.

I like the requirement that you have to spend time embedding your spells somewhere, but I don't really like the spellbook thing. For the purposes of this campaign, "spellbook" is a very loose term for casters. You must have something into which you commit your spells, but it could be an actual book, knots and beads in your hair, your memory, or even something like wisps of smoke, in which case you would have to consult a fire every morning to gain your spells.

[unosarta]

I like the requirement that you have to spend time embedding your spells somewhere, but I don't really like the spellbook thing. For the purposes of this campaign, "spellbook" is a very loose term for casters. You must have something into which you commit your spells, but it could be an actual book, knots and beads in your hair, your memory, or even something like wisps of smoke, in which case you would have to consult a fire every morning to gain your spells.

Ooooh, much more flavorful and awesome.

Is it common for most adventurers to know a few spells, or is that system specific?

[Zap Dynamic]

Is it common for most adventurers to know a few spells, or is that system specific?

Adventuring itself is uncommon, which is something to consider when we're talking about what's common among adventurers. :smalltongue:

Here's sort of what I'm thinking. In Fellowship of the Ring, Strider treats Frodo's stab wound with kingsfoil. That could be a Heal skill check, or it could be Cure Minor Wounds. Granted, we're not using 3.5, but I figure those are universally understood terms.

Because of the nature of Warrior, Rogue, and Mage--where "Mage" is knowledge and magic, and a score of 1 allows you to cast spells--I can't justify granting spells only to a certain number of people. That said, unless your character concept explicitly involves the practice of magic, spellcasting, the arcane, whaddeva, then I'd prefer you to find a mundane way to describe whatever spell you have access to. Steer clear of clearly "magical" stuff; "magic light" could be always having a torch handy in mundane terms; "sense magic" could be the hairs raising on the back of your neck because of some previous experience with a Dreaded Spellcaster(tm).

Does that make sense? Essentially, even though they're "spells," I'd rather you not use "magic" unless your character concept is "magic user."

[The Anarresti]

Do Dragon Pistols and Dragon Rifles fit into the setting?

[Zap Dynamic]

Absolutely NOT. I forgot all about that.

Has anyone seen Moribito: Guardian of the Spirit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moribito:_Guardian_of_the_Spirit)? It's way too anime and not enough Grimm, but otherwise its a very cool example of what could be done in this setting. Very cool indeed.

[The Anarresti]

So, I have a character! I'm posting it now because, as I said before, I'm leaving for a retreat tomorrow. I won't be online from late Friday afternoon to late Sunday afternoon (EST), and I don't think I'll be on much Friday during the day because of stuff to do.
I apologize for the length of the description and backstory. I do have even more stuff about his background and so on in mind, but I neglected to put it because, you know, skirt length.
And yes, one of the reasons he is called Rabbit is as a nod to that classic trickster archetype.

Josef “Rabbit” of Grey Folly

Background and Concept elements:

1. He is a native of Grey Folly, having lived there for all of his 31 years, and is well established in the crime circles there.
2. Not that tall, about 5'7” with a scrawny, muscular body, pale skin, shaggy black hair and black eyes, and a crooked nose.
3. He loves bare-knuckled boxing, both as a spectator and participant, in official or unofficial fights.
4. He also enjoys running scams, and has lived most of his life swindling new merchants and unsuspecting woodfolk out of their money. He is linked to a thieves' syndicate in Grey Folly. Not quite the level of organization or brutality as a mafia, think more a very informal thieves' guild.
5. He is nicknamed Rabbit for his scrawny build, hyperactive personality and penchant to bounce on his feet during a fight. He got a tattoo of a rabbit on his left shoulder, to bring him luck and as a nod to his name.
6. He is a recovering alcoholic and gambler. Currently he is a teetotaler, but he still likes to gamble on occasion, especially on boxing.
7. He lives with his old mother, whom he dotes on. She taught him how to read, and he hides this fact from his buddies. However, her eyesight is going, and he reads to her whenever he can.

Goals:
1. Rabbit wants to earn enough money to set up his mother as an independent women, and make her proud.
2. I would like to see him develop a significant conscience and Robin Hood complex.

Secrets:
1. (One he knows) He killed a man when he was twenty and threw the body in the river, telling no one about it.
2. (One he does not know) His mother is not his biological mother. She found him as a baby, abandoned in a bush in the foothills of the Paganwall, wrapped in thick dark canvas. Unable to have kids of her own, she took him and raised him as her own son.

Persons tied to Rabbit.
1. He learned his trade from an older thief and martial artist, Two-tooth, (so called because he is missing both of his front teeth) when he was a boy. Two-tooth is now an old, blind man who retired out of Grey Folly because “I'm getting too old for these bloody witches.” He currently runs an inn (and safe house/dojo) in Three Rivers.
2. His aging mother, Gretchen, whom he left with his friend Ox in Grey Folly.
3. Ox, a massive guy, who is a close childhood friend of Rabbit and an occasional sparring partner. He owns a bar and fight club in Grey Folly.
4. Lars the Snake. A sociopathic robber whom Rabbit crossed one too many times, necessitating that Rabbit skip town (if we start outside Grey Folly. Otherwise, Lars is just a psychopath who has strained relations with Rabbit.)

Memories:
1. Before I got good at what I do, I used to earn my bread as a breaker. Breaking and entering. I wasn't half-bad, neither. But something happened that turned me off that, though I still can do it from time to time if I need to. I was robbing this one river baron's house, see, and just as I'm taking down a shiny (slang: expensive, gilded) sword from the wall, I hear a door open. I turn around and there's the greedy rat's butler, just standing there. He opens his mouth to shout but before I know what I'm doing I've slashed him across the throat. I dropped the sword, fell, and heaved my guts all over the floor. By the full moon, it was horrible. But what could I do? So I picked up the guy, all slimy with his own blood, dragged him out to the river and dumped him in. I ain't told no one to this day.

2. How'd I get this nose? I'll tell you. When I was thirteen, I wasn't the hulking behemoth you see before you now. I was a titchy little thing. Anyway, there was this big kid who liked to pick on younger kids, he must've been sixteen or so. We called him Fatty. Blow me down if I can remember what his real name was. Anyway, one time he had one of my mates cornered, and he was shoving him around, calling him a rat and all. So I said, don't you treat my mates like that. What'cha gonna do about it, he says, so I punch him in the gut. Anyway, we get into an all out brawl and I thrashed him soundly. He did break my nose, though, and that's why it's so pretty and all.

3. Damn witches. The first time I saw them I was ten years old, walking in the streets, and I saw the black, ragged shapes streaking across the sky. I drop my basket and start running, but one sees me and drops down from the sky, cackling. She follows me through the streets, twisting and turning as I do, until I'm run up against a wall and I turn to see her. There she was, floating a foot off the ground, staring me down with a pair of horrible, icy blue eyes. I remember that she was beautiful, with long black hair that went down to her feet, much prettier than I thought a witch had any business being. She stared at me, and I stared back. Then she just smiles, nods at me and flies off. I peed my pants in relief. To this day I have no idea why she let me go.

Stats:
Warrior: 4
Rogue: 5
Mage: 1

Talent: Lucky Devil
Skills: Unarmed, Thievery, Acrobatics

HP=10
Fate=5
Mana=2
Defense=8 (12 with armor)

Equipment:
Longbow (20 arrows)
Sword
Lamellar Armor
3 Daggers/Knives
10 yards rope
Lockpick
Adventurer's kit
Grappling Hook (I assumed same price as lockpick)
Riding Horse, saddlebags and bridle.
1 week's iron rations
Noble Clothing
Traveling Clothing
Normal Clothing
Deck of Cards
Dice
2 torches
65 Sp.

[Zap Dynamic]

Nice submission! While reading your character sheet, you reminded me that I haven't established any naming protocols for characters in this settings, beyond the 1-2 hints I've dropped in the OPs. Good news: you're dead on!

Essentially, I figure most of the people in the Blackwood have a medieval Germanic name (like this link for men (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/talan/bahlow/bahlowMasc.html) and this link for women (http://www.s-gabriel.org/names/talan/bahlow/bahlowFem.html), but without any latinized endings). Many, many people also have a nickname, exactly like you've established. That particular habit I picked up both from wuxia fiction--where everyone seems to have their given name a "fighting name"--and A Song of Ice and Fire, where they go by all kinds of names.

[The Anarresti]

Thank you! I really like this character, and I'm excited for this campaign. Although I've been a devote of the Western fairy tales, I didn't know much about Wuxia fiction until I began researching it to understand this setting better, and I really liked what I found.

[Zap Dynamic]

It's a pretty cool world. My experiences with it are mostly restricted to movies, because I don't have the patience to read through an entire novel on the computer.

Update:

I've updated the very first post with a list of names to help inspire everyone. Like I said, The Anarresti has the idea well in hand, and I welcome all of you to give his character sheet a read to get an idea of what I'm going for.

[unosarta]

So, would this character make sense? I was trying to go more for the fairy-tale aspect, and then a little Wuxia/Martial Arts movies snuck in.

This is just part of her backstory. I am not going to put up the whole character until you have the recruitment thread, since that wouldn't be very fair.

Starchaser is a hermit who lived in the woods for many years, watching the animals of the forest and living among them. Her past from before her self-enforced hermitage is unknown to many, but it is suspected that she once lived as a human lady, the daughter of a lord. Her fiance, the wealthy son of a lord, was someone she desperately hated. He thought of her as nothing more than marriage-able cattle, and raped her on their marriage night. She made a deal with an elf, in that he would remove the lord from her life, in exchange for her newborn child and her beauty. She agreed to the elf’s deal, anything to gain a new life. The lord choked on a fishbone one night, and died almost instantly. She was released from her forced marriage, but was pregnant with child. When she gave birth, the elf came back to her, and told her she would need to give him her child. She reluctantly agreed to the exchange, but forgot about losing her beauty. She grew old and haggard, and looked like an ancient woman. When she awoke in her chambers, the maid screamed and threw her out of the keep that had been her childhood home. She wandered through the Wood, and found a small pool. In it, she saw her reflection, and realized what had happened to her. She sobbed for many hours, and realized that she could never go back to her old life. She went deep into the Woods, and became a hermit. She is said to be of a martial prowess that is not found anywhere else, and has learned some small knowledge of magic from the Elderfolk who sometimes wander past her hovel, but nothing more than the ability to recognize the magic of those folk.

[Zap Dynamic]

It looks good! At first I got caught up when you she was "once a human lady," because I thought you meant that she was no longer human. After reading a little further, I understand what you mean. I assume you're planning for an unarmed/magic build?

[unosarta]

It looks good! At first I got caught up when you she was "once a human lady," because I thought you meant that she was no longer human. After reading a little further, I understand what you mean. I assume you're planning for an unarmed/magic build?

Yup! I already have the build filled out and stuff, and it's more unarmed and less magic, but it's essentially what you are saying. :smallsmile:

[Zap Dynamic]

What's this? Another new story (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12716895#post12716895)? Cottage in the Woods is a little teaser about a Woman of the Wood, and the strange powers she might court. It is also an homage to a certain genre of movies. Two for one fairy tales! You won't find a better deal!

[unosarta]

What's this? Another new story (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12716895#post12716895)? Cottage in the Woods is a little teaser about a Woman of the Wood, and the strange powers she might court. It is also an homage to a certain genre of movies. Two for one fairy tales! You won't find a better deal!

Wow, your writing style is just superb. I am really loving these tales.

One thing you might want to elaborate a bit on are the were-wolves. I know when I read the Cottage in the Wood, that was the first thing that I really hit up on. Presumably you have your tales mostly planned out, but I would love to see one that included a were-wolf or two, unless they are just creatures made up by the villagers to scare their children.

[Zap Dynamic]

Wow, your writing style is just superb. I am really loving these tales.

Thanks! This is a pretty serious departure from my usual writing style, which is a good deal more flowery. I've been really trying to capture the feel of folk tales with these, though, and I've been having a good time. I just try to imagine what a mother might tell her young son to get him to behave. :smalltongue:


One thing you might want to elaborate a bit on are the were-wolves. I know when I read the Cottage in the Wood, that was the first thing that I really hit up on. Presumably you have your tales mostly planned out, but I would love to see one that included a were-wolf or two, unless they are just creatures made up by the villagers to scare their children.

Good! I'm glad your mind jumped to it, because it's something I'd like to incorporate. That said, I don't want to give too much away. Werewolves in this setting will not be anything super creative or anything... just run of the mill lycanthropes.

As far as the tales are concerned, I think I'm really going to throttle back on churning them out until the campaign has gotten underway. I'd like to incorporate them into the campaign itself, and doing that over the course of things seems to be natural.

"Oh," said the old farmer, scratching his beard. "So you want to learn about werewolves, do you? Well, my wife is familiar with the tale. She says it happened to a friend of her cousin's, who lived in a far off village. Go see her in the house if you'd like to hear it for yourself." [cue the story]

From here on out, I feel like that^ is going to be the ideal way to introduce new stories.

[unosarta]

Thanks! This is a pretty serious departure from my usual writing style, which is a good deal more flowery. I've been really trying to capture the feel of folk tales with these, though, and I've been having a good time. I just try to imagine what a mother might tell her young son to get him to behave. :smalltongue:
It definitely works. It makes it much easier to read, and makes it easy to understand the context of the story. It definitely works.

I noticed a bit about Johan the Piper in the stories post. Was that there before I started writing about Johan, because I am currently writing a story about Johan and the Bandit King, and if you want to take over Johan's story and take it as you will, feel free! :smallsmile:


Good! I'm glad your mind jumped to it, because it's something I'd like to incorporate. That said, I don't want to give too much away. Werewolves in this setting will not be anything super creative or anything... just run of the mill lycanthropes.

As far as the tales are concerned, I think I'm really going to throttle back on churning them out until the campaign has gotten underway. I'd like to incorporate them into the campaign itself, and doing that over the course of things seems to be natural.
Still, learning the backstory of the lycanthropes, how they fit in the setting, it all makes them a very interesting element to add to the setting. Lycanthropes were always my favorite gothic horror concept.


From here on out, I feel like that^ is going to be the ideal way to introduce new stories.
Okay. I like the idea of the characters searching out tales and stories.

[Zap Dynamic]

I actually meant to say something whenever you posted the first Johan tale. I've already got a character named Johann the Fiddler, who could potentially be a pretty big deal in the setting. I'm not really worried about two characters with the same name (especially because "Johan" is the Germanic equivalent of "John"), but it's something to think about nonetheless. If you'd rather change your character's name that's fine, but it's no skin off my back either way. :smallsmile:

[unosarta]

I think I'd like to keep it Johan, but it threw me off when I first saw it. What do other people think? I have no problem changing Johan's name...

And that was exactly the reason why I named him Johan. I wanted to focus more on the germanic fairy-tale aspect of the setting, so I decided to make his name German.

[Zap Dynamic]

By the way, I'm making my first-ever random tables for this setting, and I'm having a blast doing it. Sandbox-y goodness, away!

[Zap Dynamic]

The Recruitment Thread has been posted (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=12944508#post12944508)! I copy/pasted The Anarresti's character since he'll be gone this weekend. Unosarta, I'mma let you handle your character on your own, especially since you've only got a teaser up here now.

Let's see some submissions!

[unosarta]

Submitted my character. I was unsure what to do for extra people for my character to be associated with, and my friend gave me the idea of having a Little Red Riding Hood type come visit the character, which struck me as humorously ridiculous, the perfect thing.

[Zap Dynamic]

Not sure if anyone is subscribed to this anymore (since it's basically complete), but I figured I'd post to give an update.

First, for the campaign I'm running now I've been statting up a bunch of WRM monsters (I've got 19 so far!), and also building a few simplistic random tables for things like building villages and cities, wilderness areas, and even friendly/hostile encounters. I'm having a blast with it, and I can't wait to publish stuff here!

Second, I've begun thinking about what lies beyond the Blackwood. The campaign I'm running now will definitely stay within its bounds, but I've been toying around with the idea of elaborating the "wide world" since before I even posted anything here on the forums. So far I have a whopping four other realms:

Koss: Roman military-meets-Swiss exclusionism and alpine/himalayan folklore
Cerai: French folklore-meets-Abrahamic cosmology
The Duchies of the Seafolk: Italian renaissance-meets-Greek myth-meets-Persian stuff
The Petty Kingdoms of the North: Vikings-meet-Feudal Japan-meet-Catan


Right now, I've basically lot a short list of mythic elements from all of the involved cultures, and a large storm cell moving into the brainscape. I hate to tease everyone will all of these juicy details only to give you bad news, but if I expand on all this (which I will probably do), I'll tackle each one as a separate setting, much like the Blackwood. I have a pretty good idea which one I'm going to work on next, but does anyone have any requests?

[druid91]

I like the petty kingdoms of the north.

Though if you don't mind my asking how large is the feudal japan part of Feudal japan/vikings?

[Zap Dynamic]

Though if you don't mind my asking how large is the feudal japan part of Feudal japan/vikings?

I picture vikings with a strict code of honor and extremely high-quality weapons.

[Grinner]

I picture vikings with a strict code of honor and extremely high-quality weapons.

If I may, I'd like to humbly present this article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus_steel). Take note of the sentence:


European researchers have demonstrated that high quality swords with damask patterns were produced by various pattern welding techniques since at least the 3rd century BCE by the Celts and Germanic peoples.

[Zap Dynamic]

If I may, I'd like to humbly present this article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damascus_steel). Take note of the sentence:

oooOOOooo What's a good descriptive term for that pattern? Grainy? Marbled?

Also, my plan for that region is to combine frost giants (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B6tunn) with oni (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oni_%28folklore%29).

[Grinner]

oooOOOooo What's a good descriptive term for that pattern? Grainy? Marbled?

Umm...well, the proper term is damascene, but I would avoid using that in-game, since it refers to a city in the Mediterranean.

[unosarta]

The Wikipedia article uses water-like, which seems to fit the patterns very well. Flowing or twisting lattice patterns might be a better literal description...

[Wyntonian]

Rippled, perhaps? I feel like Frost Giants and Oni are a fairly natural fit. I'm curious to see more of this.

[Zap Dynamic]

Rippled, perhaps?


"A ripple blade." The words rang in the young man's ear. The finest steel to be found. Kings and heroes payed mountains of treasure or braved the most savage seas for such a mighty blade, and here was one laying in his hands.


Hmm... I think I like it. What about you?

[druid91]

Well actually I asked because I'm a bit of an amateur student of japanese history, culture... Etc.

So, I wouldn't mind helping out a bit.

[Zap Dynamic]

I'll welcome whatever tidbits you have to give! For whatever reason, this particular series of projects are pretty personal to me, and I don't think I'll be doing any sort of major collaboration on them. That said, if I come up with an idea that seems inauthentic or anything, I definitely want to know about it.

I'm also thinking about gearing the Petty Kingdoms specifically toward wargaming. I want to leave the door open for the more typical "adventure party" style of play, but I'd really like to see if I can create an atmosphere that would be good for a group of players controlling squads in an army instead of just individuals. Thoughts?

[druid91]

Well as far as wargaming, I'm not sure about Vikings... But the japanese really had no real codified set of good and evil like the west did. They didn't have "sins."

Mostly "Good" was doing as you were told, obeisance is the rule of the day. Essentially imagine a system that is all about snubbing and undercutting rivals, as long as you do so within the bounds of propriety and rules. You payed respect to your superiors more often because usually they had the right to summarily execute (Unless you were samurai, in which case you had to execute yourself) you for not doing so than because you actually respected them.

[Zap Dynamic]

Well as far as wargaming, I'm not sure about Vikings... But the japanese really had no real codified set of good and evil like the west did. They didn't have "sins."

Mostly "Good" was doing as you were told, obeisance is the rule of the day. Essentially imagine a system that is all about snubbing and undercutting rivals, as long as you do so within the bounds of propriety and rules. You payed respect to your superiors more often because usually they had the right to summarily execute (Unless you were samurai, in which case you had to execute yourself) you for not doing so than because you actually respected them.

Were those two separate thoughts? I don't see how wargaming and "good and evil" are linked with each other.

In general, though, I am a fan of the "shades of gray" mentality when it comes to alignment/motivation.

[druid91]

Were those two separate thoughts? I don't see how wargaming and "good and evil" are linked with each other.

In general, though, I am a fan of the "shades of gray" mentality when it comes to alignment/motivation.

Well that was sort of my point. Since they didn't have that sort of unifying system, there would be wars between different factions that wouldn't tear the whole system apart. It was more about who was in charge than anything else.

[Zap Dynamic]

Well that was sort of my point. Since they didn't have that sort of unifying system, there would be wars between different factions that wouldn't tear the whole system apart. It was more about who was in charge than anything else.

Oh! Gotcha. I agree with you. I figured the idea of a viking band with a ship going off to raid and pillage lent itself to wargaming just as well as samurai armies duking it out on solid ground. Since I've got a mashup, it only seems appropriate. :smallcool:

[Zap Dynamic]

Just jotting down these ideas for future reference:

Petty Kingdoms

Gods

Sleeping World Snake as Earth God. The mountains and islands are his body.
Northern Lights are the hems of the Sky Goddess' royal raiment. She is the goddess of magic and the night.
Storms are the personification of the Nietzsche-inspired god of War and Truth.
The Kraken will be some kind of sea god, inspired mainly by this poem (http://www.victorianweb.org/authors/tennyson/kraken.html) (coincidentally, I'm pretty sure Lovecraft read this before he wrote the Cthulhu mythos).
There needs to be a trickster god. Not sure in what way. Thought: "Alfred" means basically "wise elf" in Germanic naming conventions. Batman is pretty crafty. I'm tempted to make a Batman/Joker/Loki mashup for the trickster god.

Magic

Runes will be involved. I'm toying around with the idea of having "localized" magic, where it's very difficult to cast unless you're near a standing stone that's covered in runes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Runestone). This is a baldfaced effort to indulge in all the delicious morsels Wyntonian has been offering.

Ideals

The afterlife is a direct reflection of your deeds in life. Live to the fullest and win the most treasure and glory, and you will enjoy the afterlife. Live the life of a coward, a miser, or a failure, and you are doomed to suffer for eternity.
This region is going to be all about conquering neighboring islands/territories. I want there to be room for both traditional tabletop and wargaming.


I have ideas about how to integrate Japanese culture (honor is paramount, blah blah), but I think the most recognizable part will be the various monster mashups I intend to create (Oni/Frost Giant, etc).

**Another thought**
Odin has his ravens, Thought and Memory. According to wikipedia, they are related to shamanistic spirit journeys, because Odin sends Thought and Memory out into the world to discover things just like shamans use what is basically astral projection for their divination. I need to create a spell that allows a magic user to turn into a Tengu to quickly travel all over the world, gathering whatever knowledge they require. Naturally, this will be a difficult spell. In Warrior, Rogue, and Mage terms, it's definitely 4th Circle.

Also, there seems to be a common thread between Norse games (such as wrestling) and Japanese martial art traditions. The idea of the unarmored, unarmed warrior in Japanese culture is also similar to the Norse berserker tradition, despite having obvious differences.

I'm also dangerously close to getting rid of the kingdom of Koss, incorporating its ideas into the Petty Kingdoms. What will probably happen (since I've already created a little bit of stuff for Koss), is that it will change pretty radically, becoming a) much smaller, and b) more focused on Tibetan culture than anything. More and more like a Shangri-la equivalent.

Cerai
Heaven is a place of beautiful light and music, but it is hidden from the world by the cloud of those spirits who fled from Mareal Turi’s Light. Heaven and Earth will be reconnected when all the stray spirits are either returned to the fold or imprisoned.

This is inspired by the Ptolemaic cosmology used in the medieval times. It's appropriately divine for such a religious region, it's really stinking cool, and it provides an excellent reason for the Unified to proselytize as much as they do: every new ear that hears the Good Word brings the world that much closer to Heaven on Earth.

[Zap Dynamic]

So I've been doing a lot of reading on Norse mythology lately, which I guess means that I'm working on the Petty Kingdoms.

Here's a link (http://www.rune-magick.com/pages/norse_ninevirtues.htm) to a list of virtues that were highly-praised by Norse culture. Honor... fidelity... discipline... could it get any easier to relate Norse and Japanese cultures?

.::EDIT::.

In Warrior, Rogue, and Mage, I want there to be a Talent called "Iron Fist" or something, that allows you to roll 1d6 instead of 1d6/2 for unarmed damage. Let it be done.

[Zap Dynamic]

Petty Kingdoms Stuff

The Petty Kingdoms are situated on a long, thin island across a narrow, northern sea from the mainland. It stretches northeast up into lands of everlasting snow, from which come the Ice Giants. They are terrifying, horned creatures with razor-sharp claws that wear nothing but the pelts of sabre cats and wield huge, iron-spiked clubs.

The folk of the Petty Kingdoms--known collectively as northmen, icemen, and several other names--are heirs to a cyclical, volatile culture. Once every hundred or so years, something drives the Ice Giants through the Frost Gate in the North. They have no cohesion amongst their ranks, but they reap destruction and death all throughout the Petty Kingdoms.

To combat this, northmen have a developed a complex feudal society. The protection of the people is the most important part of life in the Petty Kingdoms. Ice Giants trickle down through the Frost Gate, while resources on the island are never as great as they should be. To that end, Jarls and Thanes protect the realm, Karls serve as craftsmen, traders, and priests, Thralls toil as slaves, and all pay homage to the High King. For all this order, however, the Petty Kingdoms are rife with infighting and conflict.

Jarls
The island is carved into several kingdoms, each ruled by a hereditary jarl. Jarls are lords over extensive lands. They command several mead halls, and those mead halls pay tribute by spending one year in four in the jarl's hall. All mead halls make up a jarl's army, but when a mead hall's warriors attend a jarl's hall, they make up that jarl's honor guard. Jarls require standing armies because they must defend not only their lands, but also the honor of their families.

Thanes
Mead halls are founded, maintained, and serve as a place of training and lodging for the thanes. Members of this warrior caste begin their service at a young age. They train extensively in the use of the Water Blade--a lightweight bastard sword of remarkable quality, named for the ripple patterns along its length--and gain renown by collaborating with their brethren. Each mead hall is known for a particular skill, talent, or advantage, and the greatest halls become the sworn thanes of a jarl, to serve him and no others until death. Honor, skill, and will to power make up the full scope of a thane's life.

Most thanes are known as Ox Thanes. They must toil for their warrior art, and they must serve their elders. Even the most well-respected leader of a mead hall or champion of a jarl is an Ox Thane.

When a thane feels that obedience no longer serves his will, he strikes out on his own and becomes an Ice Thane. The least of these are sellswords and bandits, whereas the greatest of these are legendary terrors. Their cause--their own will to power--is highly respected, but they must be cast down. Ice Thanes see this constant opposition as the perfect way to rise to true greatness, whereas all others seek to destroy Ice Thanes because they threaten the established order. Some Ice Thanes are good, some others are evil, and many more have no clear loyalties, but all are bound by a common cause: acting out their will at all costs.

Those Ice Thanes that rise to true greatness attract a large number of followers, and inevitably seek to overthrow a jarl and become one themselves. Many jarls inherit their position through their sires, but these Shining Thanes gain land and title through force of arms and all the wisdom or tyranny that comes with it. It is said that Shining Thanes arise only once per era, and many of them go on to become the High King of the Petty Kingdoms.

High King
The High King is a hereditary title solely because the Shining Thane who rises to High King is too honorable a figure to be revered for only one lifetime. They command the finest Ox Thanes, occupy the largest and most fertile lands, and only the mightiest of the Ice Thanes can hope to challenge their rule.

Karls
Karls make up the bulk of the population of the Petty Kingdoms. These are all the free workers of society; no other class is so diverse. A karl might be a simple farmer, a craftsmen, a priest, one skilled in the working of magic runes, or even a successful trader with a fleet of ships and a large estate, but they are all considered to be "merely" free laborers.

Karls are welcome to pursue any craft or trade they desire, but some paths are not as easily walked as others. For example, a karl could enter into the service of a mead hall as an Ox Thane, but it is unlikely that they will begin their training early enough to possess a comparable skill at arms.

Thralls
The lowliest position amongst the people of the Petty Kingdoms are the thralls. These are slaves bound to the service of any of the previous groups. Thralls are often taken from raids on the mainland or after defeat in battle, though it is possible (and somewhat common) to be born into thralldom. It is also possible for a free man to enter into thralldom for a time to pay off a debt. Aside from their position of dishonor, there is no widespread discrimination against thralls, and it is not unheard of for a thrall to be rewarded with freedom after a time.

[Zap Dynamic]

Any thoughts on this? I've tried to make it as Norse as possible, with hefty portions of Japanese stuff as well. Everything is in rough draft stage right now, so everything is open to change.

[Pokonic]

Well, I quite like them alot. As for the Trickster god, whats more tricky than something thats not entirly native to the land all yet has managed to blend in as any other northern god? Prehapes, to go along with the general idea that all myths are true, some moreso than others, there is a single trickster god, but he has many faces, one for every land under the sun. (Or not.)
Sometimes you hear his tales of trickery told by a Woodsman on a hunting trip to amuse his childeren, while in the far north a strangly similer tale is told, albet perhapes a bit cruder and with more drunken maids and bald men.


Well, besides that, may I suggest that there be a sort of Skald sort of caste for them? They are not mearly well-trained Karl: it is they who record the bloody history the priests care little about and it is they who keep the beasts away from the war-camps at night. The strange notes that the most skilled among them can disorient newcomers, and they know secrets and stories about the land that the priests like to keep to themselves.


Also, was there ever a final decision about th nature of Trolls and Fey and the like? There not on the first posts anymore, and it seems that I have missed something.

[arkham618]

Any thoughts on this? I've tried to make it as Norse as possible, with hefty portions of Japanese stuff as well. Everything is in rough draft stage right now, so everything is open to change.

Just a stylistic comment. Clearly, the Ice Thanes are meant to be analogous to rōnin. In Japanese, rōnin means "wave man" and refers to the rootlessness of the lordless samurai, who is cast about by the waves of fortune, as it were. Keeping with the Nordic theme, a better name for the concept might be Drift Thane (or drifthegn), referring both to driven snow and the wandering nature of the unaffiliated warrior.

[Eldest]

I would change mead halls to meethalls, because mead might lead to jokes about drunkeness and such. Also, the Ice Thanes -> Drift Thanes I'm good with. But I like what you have.

Also, I just remembered. The Rogue game in my signature might interest you, since you like WRM. They have similar feels.

[Wyntonian]

I'm sorry I don't have anything more constructive to add, but I heartily agree with the above two suggestions.

[Zap Dynamic]

First off, sorry for the Wall O'Text!


Well, I quite like them alot. As for the Trickster god, whats more tricky than something thats not entirly native to the land all yet has managed to blend in as any other northern god? Prehapes, to go along with the general idea that all myths are true, some moreso than others, there is a single trickster god, but he has many faces, one for every land under the sun. (Or not.)

That's a good idea! Trickster heroes can be found in every culture, and they are treated with different levels of esteem/infamy in each. Because of the "fill in the dots yourself" philosophy I'm adopting with this series of mini-settings, I wouldn't set that sort of information in stone, but I will definitely remember to leave hints sprinkled throughout.


Well, besides that, may I suggest that there be a sort of Skald sort of caste for them? They are not mearly well-trained Karl: it is they who record the bloody history the priests care little about and it is they who keep the beasts away from the war-camps at night. The strange notes that the most skilled among them can disorient newcomers, and they know secrets and stories about the land that the priests like to keep to themselves.

I agree that skalds need to play a large part in this setting. I think they're too large a part of Norse culture to exclude. That said, I developed this class system based almost entirely on real-world Norse culture, with emphasis placed on the Thanes to evoke a more Japanese feeling. While the skalds are important--and will even have a kind of magic all their own--they're not a distinct social class.



Also, was there ever a final decision about th nature of Trolls and Fey and the like? There not on the first posts anymore, and it seems that I have missed something.

First, they're not in the first post because--now that I'm running a campaign--I don't want to post the stats of these creatures just yet. As my players encounter the various monsters, I'll be updating the opening posts with stats and flavor text for the creatures of the world.

Second, the final decision about trolls and elves is that--mechanically--they are distinct creatures. As far as flavor is concerned, they appear to be different, but then again many of the creatures that are considered to be "elves" appear pretty radically different as well. Whether trolls are their own race or another offshoot of the elves is something I'm leaving to each GM to decide for themselves.


Just a stylistic comment. Clearly, the Ice Thanes are meant to be analogous to rōnin. In Japanese, rōnin means "wave man" and refers to the rootlessness of the lordless samurai, who is cast about by the waves of fortune, as it were. Keeping with the Nordic theme, a better name for the concept might be Drift Thane (or drifthegn), referring both to driven snow and the wandering nature of the unaffiliated warrior.

Thanks for the advice! Ice Thanes are indeed intended to be rōnin expys, but I've tried to include a few other elements too. I've been rereading Thus Spoke Zarathustra (one of my all-time favorites), and the Thane class in general is roughly analogous to Nietzsche's ideas about the Three Metamorphoses. The Ox Thanes are equivalent to the Camel, who piles all the work and hardship onto his back to grow stronger. The Ice Thanes are the Lions, who decide that service and labor no longer suit them, and they have to learn to say no to "thou shalt" commands. Finally, the Shining Thane is equivalent to the Child, who has come to see the fruition of his journey, who no longer struggles for or against his will, and can come back into the fold of society because he is a creator and a beacon. The god in this setting that draws from Odin and Thor also draws a lot from Nietzsche, and basically tells the northmen that this path is the only way to fulfillment.

Name-wise, I'm drawing from the Elder Futhark. I've been reading a lot about the Elder Futhark lately, and I think it's completely amazing. Not only is it an alphabet, it's also a system of magic, and it basically tells the story of the Monomyth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monomyth).

"Ox" Thanes refer to the first two letters of the Futhark, Fehu and Uruz (http://www.tarahill.com/runes/aett_1.html), which are basically the basest drive for creation, manifesting itself as domesticated and wild cattle cattle: animals of burden and labor.

"Ice" Thanes are taken from the rune Isa (http://www.tarahill.com/runes/aett_2.html) (third rune in that link), which basically points to the trials and obstacles that lie in one's path toward spiritual wholeness and achievement. Conveniently, it's also a nice hat-tip to the Ice Giants; once I get more information posted, I think people will see a lot of similarities between the Ice Thanes and Ice Giants.

"Shining" Thanes are taken from the rune Dagaz (http://www.tarahill.com/runes/aett_3.html) (second to last rune in that link), which is annotatively the shining light of day, and connotatively the fulfillment of the journey that all the previous runes lay out.

So in a roundabout kinda way: I want to stick with the foundation I've laid. That said, I think that "Drift Thane" and "Wave Thane" both sound really cool, so well done!


I would change mead halls to meethalls, because mead might lead to jokes about drunkeness and such. Also, the Ice Thanes -> Drift Thanes I'm good with. But I like what you have.

I'm actually thinking about changing them to "halls," dropping any other descriptors entirely. If I remember my (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Jorrvaskr) history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heorot) correctly, bands of Norse warriors (and even kings) used mead halls as a place of rest and refuge in between their adventures. To put an Asian spin on things, I imagine them being a cross between dojos and tea houses.

I had originally used "Mead Hall" because I wanted to distinguish it from a Jarl's or King's hall. That said, what do you think of "Thane Hall," "Jarl Hall," and "High Hall," as replacements?


Also, I just remembered. The Rogue game in my signature might interest you, since you like WRM. They have similar feels.

I've been reading up on it every now and then (thanks to your sig, actually!), and I really like what I've been reading. I'd like to make a card game that's the same idea, and is basically a combination of Bang! (http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/30933/bang-the-bullet) and Fluxx (http://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/258/fluxx).

[Eldest]

What if you instead called it a Hall, but each hall is named after the Thane in charge. So Rutgarhall, for example, would be the hall that Rutgar is in charge of.

[Zap Dynamic]

What if you instead called it a Hall, but each hall is named after the Thane in charge. So Rutgarhall, for example, would be the hall that Rutgar is in charge of.

I like that idea a lot, but I was looking for a way for someone to know what "tier" one is referring to in casual conversation. Do you think that's even necessary?

Also, does my explanation of the Thane system make sense? It's a lot of elements thrown together--and I think all of it fits--but I want to make sure that's the case across the board.

My next post will be detailing the gods of this setting. I've got 9 right now. I should probably think about starting a new thread for this... nah. Not right now.

[Pokonic]

One question: whats stopping some potent Jarl from becoming High King? I mean, yes, they might be considered kings in there own right, but it seems odd for such a title to only be taken by a single guy without any fussing from a hardy lord.

[Zap Dynamic]

One question: whats stopping some potent Jarl from becoming High King? I mean, yes, they might be considered kings in there own right, but it seems odd for such a title to only be taken by a single guy without any fussing from a hardy lord.

I didn't relate it very clearly, but essentially, the High King has the allegiance of all the Jarls (though the Jarls may fight amongst each other from time to time), and the Jarls have the allegiance of a good many Thanes, Karls, and a host of Thralls in their service. The reason for all this unity is because the Ice Giants have a sort of mass exodus (I need a name for this) from their northern lands, where they descend on the island and basically kill everything that's not prepared. It's impossible to tell when the Ice Giants are coming (there have been times where their great attacks have come one year after another, and other times when there have been a century between attacks), so unity amongst the people is essential to the survival of the culture.

Anyone that seeks to overthrow the High King will have to face off against the entirety of the Petty Kingdoms to do so. The ascension of a new High King is always a period of turmoil for the Petty Kingdoms, because all allegiances to the old High King are severed (since he's dead), and all the old grudges come to light, even if only for a few years. All the Jarls and loyal Thanes will rally to the cause of the High King, because if he dies then the social order is upset, putting them all in danger of annihilation at the hands of the Ice Giants.

Also, it's entirely possible for a Jarl to become an Ice Thane and challenge the throne. Most Ice Thanes that attempt it have already gathered a fair number of followers, anyway, because to assault the High King alone is pretty insane. It's probably even the case that the Ice Thane in question would gather a number of Jarls to his cause, sparking a sort of civil war.

[Pokonic]

Ah, understandable. Also, while you mention the Ice Giants ( whose great migration for a lack of a better term might be called the Frost Reaping), it seems that there is potential in other sort of pesudofey for them. A few off the top of my head include:

Horrid fox-spirits (Horfoxes?) that take the form of beggers to take advantage of the kindly oriented, and might be tricked into marrage by those most cunning of Thanes. Of couse, they always managed to wiggle out of such situations.

Drunken bear-like humanoids that wait until spring to awake from there frozen caves to shapeshift into burly men and mingle with mere mortals while always offering there fighting ability (better known as half-drunken rampaging) to those who can outdrink/outeat/outfight them.

Frosted maidens that wait outside combat to, according to lore, seek the souls of the dead to shuffle them off to the spirit realm. Of course, others say that they are the ghosts of the wives of dead Thanes and Jarls, but what do they know?

[Trellan]

I like that idea a lot, but I was looking for a way for someone to know what "tier" one is referring to in casual conversation.

An easy solution (and very Japanese-influenced) is to simply make rank a part of a lord's name. If you want to avoid super long names, a person can take a new name upon achieving their position (not an uncommon practice in Japanese history, either). The "lord names" could work with a personal prefix or suffix added to a root determined by rank. Of course, if you name places after their living owners, you'll have a really confusing system that is hard to keep track of through history. It's also pretty much certain that common folk would just make their own name for the places to save themselves the hassle.

[Eldest]

One other idea for an easy way to figure out the relative status of each person is to say that your rank in society determines the number of sylables in your name. So you have King [very long formal name here] Who is known as King Mathias, because that's the start of his name.

[Timeless Error]

I'm just dropping in to say that I've been following this project for a while, and I like what you've done with the setting immensely. Great work!

[Zap Dynamic]

An easy solution (and very Japanese-influenced) is to simply make rank a part of a lord's name. If you want to avoid super long names, a person can take a new name upon achieving their position (not an uncommon practice in Japanese history, either). The "lord names" could work with a personal prefix or suffix added to a root determined by rank.

I can get down with the idea of adding more names as one climbs higher in rank (Nobunaga is an example), but I don't think I like the pre-/suffix thing. That seems like a really "Arabian" thing to do, but I'll probably use something like that for another realm I've been thinking of. Thanks!


Of course, if you name places after their living owners, you'll have a really confusing system that is hard to keep track of through history. It's also pretty much certain that common folk would just make their own name for the places to save themselves the hassle.

Righto on both counts. That situation also seems to imply a high degree of sophistication in the social system, which I'm not certain that I want. Japan was the same way, but I think I'd like to strike a little more of a balance between Japanese and Norse society in this case.

BTW, thanks Timeless Error! Have you seen the campaign I'm running at the moment?

[Timeless Error]

BTW, thanks Timeless Error! Have you seen the campaign I'm running at the moment?

As a matter of fact, I have seen that! Would you mind terribly if I followed along to see how things play out?

[Zap Dynamic]

As a matter of fact, I have seen that! Would you mind terribly if I followed along to see how things play out?


Go right ahead! That would be great!

I've been having a LOT of brainstorming with the rest of these settings, and I've come to some conclusions. The Blackwood has been my exercise in making small settings, and I think I'm ready to play with the variables.

I've got at least four more locations to visit: Koss, Cerai, the Windy Isles, and the Duchies of the Sea Lords. I know I want Koss to be small, I'm toying around with it being some kind of important middle-ground, like Switzerland or Monaco or something. I've got a basketful of ideas for both Cerai and the Windy Isles, and their going to have to be a bit bigger.

So this is my plan:

1. Blackwood - A campaign setting covering a region.
2. Koss - A campaign setting covering a small kingdom (~144 sq. miles).
3. Cerai: A campaign setting contained with a single, huge city.
4. The Windy Isles: A campaign setting contained in a vast island kingdom.
5. The Duchies: A campaign setting spanning several countries.


My hope is that by going into smaller and smaller areas, I'll become familiar with the detail necessary to make an entire kingdom (Windy Isles) a really cool place.

[Savannah]

Ooh, I can't wait to see what you do with Cerai! I've always wanted a giant city campaign setting, but I've never quite managed to figure out where to start.

[Zap Dynamic]

Ooh, I can't wait to see what you do with Cerai! I've always wanted a giant city campaign setting, but I've never quite managed to figure out where to start.

Thanks! I got the idea because I had all the stuff for a country (but didn't want to tackle the project), so I was like "Well, why don't I take all the stuff from this country, and put it all in one, iconic city?" I think I had just watched The Legend of Korra or something. :smalltongue:

[Othesemo]

I'm just gonna pop in and say that I love this setting. It strikes me as sort of Neil Gaiman-esque (sort of like stardust, except much smaller), and I've greatly enjoyed reading it (great job on the map, btw).

Actually, this happens to be one of the things that inspired me to actually go out and attempt my own campaign setting. And if it can inspire me to expend any sort of meaningful energy, it's clearly very well made.

[Zap Dynamic]

I'm just gonna pop in and say that I love this setting. It strikes me as sort of Neil Gaiman-esque (sort of like stardust, except much smaller), and I've greatly enjoyed reading it (great job on the map, btw).

Actually, this happens to be one of the things that inspired me to actually go out and attempt my own campaign setting. And if it can inspire me to expend any sort of meaningful energy, it's clearly very well made.

Thanks! I just posted a little bit of information about weapons in the OOC thread for the campaign I'm running. I suppose I should post those here as well...

In terms of development on new areas, I'm coming up with ideas left and right for all of these settings. It's been pretty hard to focus on any particular area. The more I brainstorm, the less I seem to be thinking about Koss. I'd like to get it out of the way first, but I also don't want to just throw something together. We'll see how things pan out.

[Zap Dynamic]

Here's the stuff I wrote about weapons. Now that I have a chance to re-read it, I guess it's almost like looking at weapons (or schools of weapons) being represented kind of like deities in the 3.5 PHB.

----

There are many different kinds of weapons in the Blackwood, but four are most common, and another is worth mentioning. The four most common weapons in the Blackwood are the longsword, falchion, spear, and staff.

The Longsword is known as a noble weapon, and is the favorite of soldiers, lords, and students of the blade. The warrior scholars of Sky Pillar are considered to be the masters of the longsword. It is most typically made for one hand, with a blade around 30 inches in length, and is very similar to the Oakeshott Type XIII (http://www.myarmoury.com/feature_spotxiii.html) blades. Larger swords exist (mainly in standing armies), but this is by far the most prevalent. Except during battle, it is rare to see warriors armored in anything heavier than leather and mail; this sword is small enough to allow for the finesse of lightly-armored combat, as well as the use of a shield or parrying tool in the off hand. Combat with a longsword takes place almost at arm's length, and features thrusts and jabs as well as slashes. Devotees of the longsword can become masters of position and the riposte.

The Falchion is well-known as both a tool and a weapon. It is almost the same size as the longsword, but its blade is slightly curved, and broader at the tip than the base. It works well in combat, but also excels as an axe or machete. For these reasons, it is popular amongst hunters, bandits, and explorers. The Sentinels are famous for their mastery of the falchion, and wield it in tandem with a buckler. Visually, it's a cross between an actual falchion (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7c/Falchion.jpg) and a chinese dao (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/cb/Chinese_saber.jpg). Combat is much tighter with a falchion than a longsword, and are almost always slashes. Devotees of the falchion can become masters of spinning past their opponents' defenses to deliver a wicked blow.

Because of how easy it is to construct, the Spear abounds on and off the battlefield. Hunters use them on large, dangerous game, guards are especially fond of them, and spearmen make up the bulk of infantry. The Spearwood Brotherhood are the spear's renowned masters. Most spears are six feet long, though they can be as long as 13 or as short as four feet. All spears are affixed with a tassel, and combat with a spear is cautious and confusing. Opponents are kept at length, and the tassel makes the spear's head difficult to track.

The most basic of these four weapons is the Staff. Commoners that wield blades often choose to use a falchion, but most commoners can't afford to own a sword, nor do they have training to use it. The staff, on the other hand, is exceptionally easy to construct, and requires very little experience to wield. Almost every commoner carries a staff at one point, and several have developed a basic set of maneuvers for it. There are rumors that a village in the Elder Kingdom is full of humble masters of the staff. It is usually five feet long, but size varies widely amongst this weapon that is sometimes nothing more than a tree branch. Combat with a staff is simplicity at its finest, and grants a sense of control to the practitioner.

The fifth weapon worth mentioning is the Antler Knife. Originally a weapon of the pagan wild, its design has evolved from the antlers of a stag to cold iron. It was originally popular amongst bandits, though it has come to be widely used amongst the poor and desperate in cities as well. It resembles two overlapping half-circles (http://www.wle.com/products/W051-T.html), and it is often used in pairs. There are many masters of the Antler Knife, but the skill of the bandits of the Bracken is notorious throughout the Blackwood. Combat with antler knives is fast and relentless, and masters of the weapon can be a whirlwind of blades.

[Zap Dynamic]

War in the Blackwood
Or, why an isolated realm has armored soldiers

The Blackwood is full of dangerous creatures and magical beasts. Though the forest itself is vast, human presence in the Blackwood is confined to a few relatively narrow corridors. There are no wide, open plains as in other regions, and there is not even an abundance of level ground. All of these elements combine to create an atmosphere that discourages open warfare, and yet the various lords of the Blackwood each have their standing armies. Why do these armies exist, and what do they look like?

Organization
Each major city of the Blackwood has its own soldiers, to defend against attack from bandits, pagans, and--rarely--other cities of the Blackwood. Most of these are made up of volunteers from the populace, though many cities have been known to conscript soldiers from time to time. Each city's army is commanded by the lord of that city.

These armies are made up of a small core of professional soldiers called knights (typically members of noble families or select adventurers) augmented at need by a much larger conscription force. All cities are home to a knightly order made up of between 50-150 knights, enough to deal with any problems the city may have. Knights hone their skills in the city training yards, and are often called upon by the lord of the city to ride out in defense of the people of the Blackwood.

By their nature, the number of conscripted soldiers in service to a lord varies depending on the population of the city and whether the city is currently in conflict. The cities of the Blackwood rarely fight amongst each other, but it has been known to happen. A conscripted soldier serves until his lord has no further need of him, and is often little more than a commoner. No city has a greater standing army than Freeport, which numbers almost 2,200 warriors.

In addition to armies, the cities of the Blackwood each have their own guard. The commander of the city guard is often one of the city's knights, and the guards themselves can be aspiring professional soldiers or merely young men looking for adventurous work. These guards make up a regulatory force in the cities. They are tasked with the city's security, from the city gates to street-level crime. Most cities have one guardsman for every 150 citizens, though the city of Span (understandably) has many more.

Far more popular amongst the people of the Blackwood is the mercenary band. Hundreds of these groups cling to the cities and trade ways, offering protection or threatening safety according to their virtue or depravity. Most of these mercenary bands are known either for a particular weapon, or a particular style of combat, and members of each band outfit themselves with weapons and armor according to their tradition. In some cases, mercenaries settle in a village or town to provide their services in exchange for food and shelter. In all cases, mercenary bands fall outside the realm of the knightly orders, even when knights join (or even found) their own mercenary band.

Equipment
Knights are by far the most thoroughly equipped of the warriors of the Blackwood. According to his station, every knight has a suit of light plate (which includes a full suit of chain mail), two weapons of his choosing, a horse, and a shield. However, most knights can afford much more equipment, and may have access to a private armory.

Outside of the knightly orders, armor is rare in the Blackwood. When one might contend with the legendary strength of trolls, all mortals would be well-advised to avoid blows rather than withstand them. That said, there is no shortage of bandits, pagans, and other folk whose weapons are all but useless against armor, so prudent adventurers often seek out a suit of leather or chain if they can afford it.

Horses are rare throughout the Blackwood. Sentinels, mercenary bands, and traders make their living by traveling the breadth of the Blackwood, and a horse can be a valuable investment for these folk. Beyond this, knights are afforded a horse for travel, but the idea of a warhorse is foreign to the folk of the Wood. Even when a knight is assaulted on horseback, his first instinct is to put his own two feet on the ground.

In the case of conscripted soldiers, their lord only has access to so many resources. A few soldiers can be outfitted by the city armory or by the lord himself, though most soldiers wear precious little more than padded armor and a kettle helm. Even though most woodfolk have a staff or heirloom falchion to protect themselves, riverfolk lead a generally peaceful life, and those conscripted soldiers who bring their own weapons to combat generally wield old, rusted blades. Staffs, for all their utility, are considered a poor choice for battlefield weaponry.

Deployment
The people of the Blackwood exist as a host of cities unified against the darkness and danger of the forest, but they do come into conflict with one another from time to time. One of the more famous examples was the Siege of Span, where members of the nobility of Three Rivers laid siege to the cliffside city for a fortnight. The cause of this futile conflict was a young, rambunctious nobleman of Span, who had seduced a young maiden of the nobility of Three Rivers, and had got her with child.

Typical of Blackwoods warfare, the knights and soldiers of Three Rivers formed a blockade across the Way, and most combat took place either on board the ships themselves, or in the camps posted on either bank to guard the blockade's flank. Warriors clashed in small melees and solitary duels. Horses were used strictly for carrying messages to and from the battlefield commanders, and archery played an important role on both sides of the battle.

Fortunately for the conscripted soldier, these inter-city battles are mercifully rare. A riverman may live his whole life without seeing himself or any of his companions conscripted into service, and a lord can generally accomplish his martial needs with a ranging of his knights. Because of this, knights of the Blackwood are much better at fighting alone or in small groups than as part of a larger army, and most tacticians from the Blackwood have no mind for large-scale engagements.

In sum, conflict in the Blackwood has more to do with personal combat than large groups of infantry, and usually comes only at the end of a dogged pursuit or guerrilla campaign. Armor can be a life-saving investment, but heavier armors are often too cumbersome to be practical in most situations.

[Zap Dynamic]

Currently watching Beowulf. No matter what, the Petty Kingdoms will feature a lot of freestyle drinking songs of praise. And for skalds, they will be rap battles.

The Eddas embody the majesty of the past. They are welcome in every hall, whether to play the ancient melodies of the people, or to relate the legends and myths of the folk of Vindland. They give the warmth of pride with word and tune.

The Skalds embody the vigor of the present. They are welcome in every hall, whether to display their skill with lyre, flute, and drum, or to sing the praises of their jarl. They are notoriously competitive, and can't resist testing their skill against any fellow skald they cross.

While I'm at it, let's talk about halls. Every jarl has a hall, which serves not only as his home, but as the feasting place for the city. When the city is too large to house all its inhabitants under a single roof, the jarl will often permit his greatest thanes to construct their own hall in his city. The largest cities boast dozens of halls, though most rarely have more than three. In cities that are too small to house a jarl, they merely have a communal feasting hall. If a thane happens to take residence in the city, he is often housed in the hall for as long as stays.

Because everyone in a city takes their meals in the hall, the culture of Vindland is highly social. The strict rules and distinct social hierarchy of the north can be seen in the larger cities, where only the wealthiest and most influential may attend the grandest halls. In these halls, even small slights--such as wearing the wrong shade of cloth--can result in permanent social disgrace.

Also: I'm toying around with names for the continents, as well as the setting itself.

Creation: Simple, to the point. Kinda like the setting.
Bereth: From the Hebrew bere****h, "in the beginning." The current dominant culture is a mix of medieval france and ancient hebrew tradition, so it makes sense they would name the world in their own language.
Olust: From the Turkish oluşturma, "creation." The language of the dominant culture before the current one is basically Turkish, and maybe the word they used for the world is still in use.

Thoughts?

[Landis963]

Currently watching Beowulf. No matter what, the Petty Kingdoms will feature a lot of freestyle drinking songs of praise. And for skalds, they will be rap battles.

Sounds great. I can just picture two bards angrily improvising a contentious duet over the issue at hand.


The Eddas embody the majesty of the past. They are welcome in every hall, whether to play the ancient melodies of the people, or to relate the legends and myths of the folk of Vindland. They give the warmth of pride with word and tune.

The Skalds embody the vigor of the present. They are welcome in every hall, whether to display their skill with lyre, flute, and drum, or to sing the praises of their jarl. They are notoriously competitive, and can't resist testing their skill against any fellow skald they cross.

Are there seers or something to embody the possibility of the future?


Also: I'm toying around with names for the continents, as well as the setting itself.

Creation: Simple, to the point. Kinda like the setting.
Bereth: From the Hebrew bere****h, "in the beginning." The current dominant culture is a mix of medieval france and ancient hebrew tradition, so it makes sense they would name the world in their own language.
Olust: From the Turkish oluşturma, "creation." The language of the dominant culture before the current one is basically Turkish, and maybe the word they used for the world is still in use.

Thoughts?

Bereth and Olust sound like great names, although I'm a bit unclear as to whether these are the names of the continent, the internal name for the Petty Kingdoms, or what they are.

[Zap Dynamic]

Are there seers or something to embody the possibility of the future?

Right now, the only future tellers I have are the three fates, who sit at the peak of the highest mountain in the petty kingdoms. Vald, the god of will and warfare, sits next to them, and watches as they weave reality from their magic skeins. That said, there's a strong precedent in Norse culture for using runes for divination.



Bereth and Olust sound like great names, although I'm a bit unclear as to whether these are the names of the continent, the internal name for the Petty Kingdoms, or what they are.

This would actually be the internal name for the landmass that's home to the Blackwood, Cerai, Koss, and the Duchies. The landmass of the Petty Kingdoms is across a narrow northern sea, and the land is called Vindland, the land of wind.

[Landis963]

This would actually be the internal name for the landmass that's home to the Blackwood, Cerai, Koss, and the Duchies. The landmass of the Petty Kingdoms is across a narrow northern sea, and the land is called Vindland, the land of wind.

If I take your meaning correctly, i.e. that "internal" refers here to what the Petty Kingdoms call the land of the Blackwood, then it would depend on when the populations of the two landmasses came into contact. Basically, the old culture would name it Olust, and the present culture would name if Bereth.

If your meaning is instead what the people of the Blackwood call the landmass that they live on, I think that calling it Olust would work best, simply because of the point you brought up earlier, that they might still use the same name for their continent. EDIT: of course, Bereth would work just as well.

EDIT2: argleflargle stupid server not posting my stupid message grumblegrumble

[Zap Dynamic]

After doing a little bit of reading, I think I'm going to go with Olust. At any rate, I'll be choosing a name that comes from one of the earlier languages. "Europe," from example, comes from what the Greeks called the continent (http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?allowed_in_frame=0&search=europe&searchmode=none). I don't currently have a Greek-equivalent culture for the setting (and I'm not certain that I will... it would feel too anachronistic to me), but I'll find something suitably old.

While I'm posting, I've been doing a lot of thinking about the Petty Kingdoms, specifically their worldview. From the beginning, I wanted the Petty Kingdoms to be a mash-up of norse and feudal japanese cultures. However, one of the gods (who is roughly equivalent to Odin and Thor), is going to be an affectionate tip o' the hat to Nietzsche, one of the most important philosophers in my own worldview. In an attempt to blend norse mythology with Nietzschean thought, here's what I've got:

---

The Norns are three spirits that take the form of old women. They dwell at the feet of Vald, god of willpower and war, at the summit of the tallest mountain in the Petty Kingdoms. Together, the Norns weave the tapestry of reality.

The Great Wind is an event at the end of time, when all the hosts of the Ice Giants will pour out of the frozen north. So great will be their onslaught that every human soul that has ever been born into this world must heed the call of duty and rise against them, and so when a person dies, their soul waits in a great hall in the afterlife.

Here, the tapestry woven by the Norns is hung from every wall, and each soul must look at the course of their life represented in the tapestry. So perfect is the weave of the Norns that tracing the path of one's life is much like living it once more. When a soul has reached the end of their part of the tapestry, their memory fades, and they must begin tracing the path again.

Because each soul spends the afterlife reliving their time in the world again and again, it is important that their life be worth reliving. Those that lead unremarkable or inauthentic lives cannot bear the weight of their shame, and the madness that ensues makes them unfit to join in the battle of the Great Wind.

So, from the time that a Vindlander is born into the world, they are taught to purify their willpower, and to focus it completely on whichever path they choose. Some become warriors or poets, others become craftsmen or laborers, and some even choose to devote themselves to their families instead of their trade. Regardless, each understands that for their dedication to wane will condemn their soul to eternal torment, and bring the Ice Giants that much closer to victory when the end of this world comes.

Such dedication takes as many forms as their are people. Some are stern and resolute. Others are passionate and--some would say--reckless. Still others cultivate a serene stillness in mind and body. Regardless, each knows that to stray from the path of willpower means an eternity of suffering, and eventual end of the world.

---

Thoughts?

[Othesemo]

Somebody else reads Nietzsche?! Let's see- you got Eternal recurrence, and you (thankfully) left out the Ubermensch. I could only be happier if you managed to throw in something about the Apollonians and Dionysians.

Anyways, I love it. It is everything that I think a mythology should be, and lends itself to a wonderful (and interesting) culture. I can think of no immediate criticism.

[Heian]

Actually he introduced a bit of Wille Zur Macht which is the natural theoretical daughter of the Ubermenshung (Or How the hell it's meant to be written! XD)

...and that's pretty cool !! :smallcool:

[Eldest]

My happy-go-lucky, unable-to-focus self would be screwed in that setting. Ah, well.

[Zap Dynamic]

Thanks for the feedback! As far as the ubermensch in concerned, I think there's still room for it. As I understand, the ubermensch is the like the next step in human progress. With that in mind, maybe there are people in-world who think that victory over the Ice Giants during the Great Wind will bring about a paradise where all people live according to their perfect will, which gives them a telos to work toward.

Eldest, you bring up a good point. Even though the culture is focused on rules, hierarchy, honor, and the perfection of one's willpower, I think there' plenty of room for lightheartedness. I think The Last Samurai is a good example. Elaborated in the spoiler below, just in case:

Katsumoto and his samurai are rebels that know they probably won't survive to the end of the movie. They still train every day, but they also pursue their own hobbies. Katsumoto gets up on stage and performs in that play, and seems to be really enjoying himself. His son--though he's a consummate archer--is a very happy guy, and laughing seems to be one of his favorite things.

I picture Vindland being similar. In larger cities, the upper class might lose sight of the importance of happiness and leisure, but things pan out differently in the smaller towns and villages. Just as in life, I imagine there being a sense of pride and contentment in the smaller communities, whether they make up an entire village, or just a neighborhood in a larger city. Long story short, the stereotypical zen-calm of feudal Japan is something I'd like to capture, but I'd be a fool to ignore the zest and happiness that is so often portrayed in viking stories, too.

---

I was thinking a little more about names for the main continent. The Duchies of the Sea Lords is the remnant of an ancient civilization that spanned the continent more than 1000 years before the current time in the setting. Their language is based on Turkish, and I really want to name the continent in their own words.

In keeping with the etymology for Europe (hyperlinked in my previous post), here's what I'm thinking:

geniş - "wide" in Turkish
arazi - "land" in Turkish
= Genara, or "Wide Land"

This is basically the same etymology as "Europe." As a bonus, the Sea Lords got their start on a huge chain of islands in the southern sea, so it would make sense that they would consider the main continent to be especially wide.

[Eldest]

"This is a rather large island!"
-Sea Lord finding the continent.

[Othesemo]

To be honest, I think it would be in Nietzsche's best interests to leave it out. For reasons beyond me, people seem to assume that his entire 15+ years of serious work can be distilled into that one word, when in reality he spends something like three sentences actually talking about it. I think it would be doing Nietzsche a disservice to try to fit it in (though you're free to do what you like, of course).

Also, I like the etymology. As you may have surmised from my setting, I'm a big fan of names actually having a linguistic meaning, rather than being seen by their creators as a contest to fit the most R's, G's and K's into one word.

[arkham618]

Somewhere in this Samurai Viking mashup there has to be a wandering blind masseur with a curious walking stick and a penchant for gambling.

[Zap Dynamic]

"This is a rather large island!"
-Sea Lord finding the continent.

Hahaha, that's about right! While I'm thinking about the Sea Lords, they're supposed to be a mash-up of late Roman Empire decadence, arabic culture (drawing especially from the 1,001 nights), and--as you know--they use Turkish as a language.

I know I want them to have a history of dyeing their skin when they reach adulthood, so they look something like this (warning: not strictly SFW):
http://fc01.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2011/181/b/a/ba6bd98979ccc0167dbbb504d299b8d6-d3kjh3v.jpg
http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/073/f/c/fc7a0e717fc11e4dd81065cc7595682e-d3bm48r.jpg

That's actually a pretty good example of how they dress, too. Not a lot of clothing (usually topless whether men or women), bright colors, and lots of golden jewelry (right now, the islands are the only place where gold is harvested).


To be honest, I think it would be in Nietzsche's best interests to leave it out.

Also, I like the etymology. As you may have surmised from my setting, I'm a big fan of names actually having a linguistic meaning, rather than being seen by their creators as a contest to fit the most R's, G's and K's into one word.

I agree with your thoughts on the ubermensch. If it makes an appearance at all, it will probably only be a sentence that says something like "if the Vindlanders prevail during the Great Wind, the world that comes after will be an earthly paradise."

I'm a huuuuuuuge fan of etymology. I tend to butcher things like grammar and syntax when I'm coming up with place names for settings, but they're not supposed to be real-world languages anyway, so I don't mind. :smallsmile:


Somewhere in this Samurai Viking mashup there has to be a wandering blind masseur with a curious walking stick and a penchant for gambling.

Sounds like a great idea for a PC! A habit I've started with the Blackwood (and would like to maintain for the other settings in this world) is to keep the "iconics" and "heroes" to a bare minimum. I want PCs to be the ones telling the most interesting stories.

I know it seems like I'm talking a lot about Vindland, and I know I said I wanted to work on either Koss or Cerai first. I've still thought about both of those places, I just haven't bothered to write much down about them.

Cerai, for instance, will have at least three regions. Each of them will look more or less the same, but each will also have a specialty. The southernmost region will border a vast desert. This is where the capital is located, and horsemanship and glasswork will be the iconic activities here. Lots of races and jousts, and tons of buildings that are made mostly (or entirely) out of glass. The northernmost region will focus more on swordsmanship, and the region in the middle will probably have a famous college of music.

[Wyntonian]

Somewhere in this Samurai Viking mashup there has to be a wandering blind masseur with a curious walking stick and a penchant for gambling.

...This is a reference to a character from a Japanese television series Zatoichi the Blind Swordsman.

It's pretty great.

He has a cane sword.

[Zap Dynamic]

...This is a reference to a character from a Japanese television series Zatoichi the Blind Swordsman.

It's pretty great.

He has a cane sword.

Hahaha, I know, I just wasn't explicit. I think it'd be a lot of fun to have a character like that, I'd just rather it was a PC.

[arkham618]

...This is a reference to a character from a Japanese television series Zatoichi the Blind Swordsman.

It's pretty great.

He has a cane sword.

There were a couple of dozen feature-length films, too.

[The Anarresti]

So, y'all might like to know, I started another Blackwood game, as the DM. My real life group broke up, and I've been itching to DM, so this is perfect.
It's a little different, mostly in that the Elder King has been deposed and has been replaced by a Wicked Witch archetype.
See here:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245465

[Zap Dynamic]

So, y'all might like to know, I started another Blackwood game, as the DM. My real life group broke up, and I've been itching to DM, so this is perfect.
It's a little different, mostly in that the Elder King has been deposed and has been replaced by a Wicked Witch archetype.
See here:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=245465


Ha! Awesome! I'm flattered. I'll be following it with interest!

[Wyntonian]

So, I'm considering playing in the aforementioned Blackwood game, but I'd like to do my homework.

I was thinking an Initiate Zealot, the paladin-analog with minor casting and turning. That seems to blend well with the Unified priesthood, I believe. So, what would be the biggest help would be an outline of the philosophy, beliefs and general outlook of a priest-turned-warrior of Mareal Turi, with as many specifics, quirks, rites, whatever, as possible, as well as what their reaction to having an Evil Witch Queen (tm) in the Elder Kingdom would be.

A couple specific questions:


Do the Unified have any sort of confession-type rite? Related to my character concept.
What sort of Domains would Mareal Turi be associated with? Light? Glory? Sound? War?

[Pokonic]

Somewhere in this Samurai Viking mashup there has to be a wandering blind masseur with a curious walking stick and a penchant for gambling.

The walking stick is a shapeshifter he bound into that form, and the gambling is a boon he gained from the rival of said shapeshifter.

[Zap Dynamic]

So, I'm considering playing in the aforementioned Blackwood game, but I'd like to do my homework.

I was thinking an Initiate Zealot, the paladin-analog with minor casting and turning. That seems to blend well with the Unified priesthood, I believe. So, what would be the biggest help would be an outline of the philosophy, beliefs and general outlook of a priest-turned-warrior of Mareal Turi, with as many specifics, quirks, rites, whatever, as possible, as well as what their reaction to having an Evil Witch Queen (tm) in the Elder Kingdom would be.

A couple specific questions:


Do the Unified have any sort of confession-type rite? Related to my character concept.
What sort of Domains would Mareal Turi be associated with? Light? Glory? Sound? War?


Good questions! The only thinking I've done on the Unified is present in the "Excerpts from the Song of Unity," found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12716920&postcount=4). I'm sure you've already read it, but there are a few things we can learn from picking it apart.

Prayer and/or ritualized recitation is an important aspect of the Unified faith. You are welcome to make up your own pious snippets whenever you'd like.
Priests of Mareal Turi adopt either a form of light (usually a lantern or torch), or sound (almost always a bell, though the priest may also sing). These two have developed into their own orders (The Order of His Light and The Order of His Voice, respectively), but the Unified is still scarce enough in the Blackwood that I haven't bothered to enunciate them. Also, I think the priests that sing are a little more vain, and are probably especially rare in a frontier region like the Blackwood.
Priests are most often missionaries or (what could be most easily described as) exorcists, but all of them are focused on the conversion of souls and "pagan gods." Some arrive bearing the Good Word with a gentle voice, providing wisdom and courage to a downtrodden people. Others arrive with an iron fist, tearing down "false idols" and asserting the dominance of Mareal Turi. This has more to do with the individual than it has to do with their membership in the Order of His Light or the Order of His Voice.
There is a kind of confession amongst the Unified, but I haven't decided what it's like. It could be two people in a box separated by a screen, or it could be something more public (a la There Will Be Blood). Settling on one may have everything to do with the priest's disposition, as noted above.
I'm--sadly--unfamiliar with the non-core domains, but Mareal would definitely be associated with Sun, Glory, Good, and Community. I'd need to take a look at Sound to see how suitable it is; what book is it in?


Just to emphasize it a little more, there's no "standard" personality for a Priest of the Unified. You've got your Mother Theresa and your Claude Frollo. It's all about what you'd like to represent. As for myself, the priest I plan on submitting is going to be a simpleton with powerful conviction and a heart of gold, but there's plenty of room for a charismatic evangelist or a corrupt member of the church nobility.

Does that help? Is there anything else you'd like to know?

[Wyntonian]

That's a huge help, thanks. Part of his backstory involves him taking up a sanctified (Insert weapon) and shield from under the altar in the ruins of his church, kept there for times of need. What weapon would the Unified favor? A warhammer, to ring a holy bell? A spear, like the shafts of His Light? A sword, to keep in tune with the existing paradigm of sword-and-board paladins?

Also, need I choose a brotherhood, or could I be just a traveling preacher without any affiliation?

I looked in the Spell Compendium, and it would appear that there isn't a Sound Domain, oddly enough. I'm currently thinking about Nobility (Inspire folks and cast minor buffs) and Retribution (deal bonus damage to people who hit you, other spells). The Nobility just works mechanics-wise, and I plan to make it more about being a noble person than the social rank. Retribution is my character's ultimate goal, against the Dark Queen, so that works.

Also, what's some little benediction things I could say or use, battle cries, blessings? I could make some up, but if there's something really fitting for a good-natured but righteously pissed-off priest I'd be happy to hear it.

So, Weapon? Brotherhood? Blessings?

[Zap Dynamic]

I think you're at liberty to pick whatever you'd like as far as weapons are concerned. Here's something:

http://th09.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/i/2012/157/7/9/blackwood_weapons_01_by_zapdynamic-d52ixuq.jpg
From left to right: Falchions (Sentinel, Hunter, Bandit), Antler Knife, Longswords (Mercenary, Nobility, Adventurer), Spears (Guard, Spearwood Brotherhood), Greatsword, Staves (Traveler's, Ornate)

I doodled this a month or so ago when I couldn't find weapons on DeviantArt that I really loved. It's by no means a definitive list, but it's designed to establish a feel for style. For instance, there are more than just three styles of falchions in the setting; their might be hundreds, simply because every sword (or weapon in general, for that matter) is unique according to the crafter's whims.

I also made a post that explains a little about the different weapons and their use here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13217716&postcount=219).

I don't think you'd need to join a brotherhood if you don't want to. Especially in the Blackwood, the Unified faith isn't really widespread enough for the orders to have a strong presence. They're definitely represented in Freeport--and possibly in Span and Three Rivers--but definitely not in any of the smaller villages.

Like I said, you're free to come up with blessings and invocations on your own, but here are a few examples:
"May you walk forever in His Light."
"May you never fail to hear His Voice."
"Monster of Darkness! Go back to the Shadow!"
"Creature of Discord! Hear His Voice and repent!"

Especially because of the way it's organized into Celebrations, Invocations, Adorations, and Meditations, I think this is a really great website (http://www.worldprayers.org/) for getting inspiration for religious utterances.

[Wyntonian]

Thanks, that's a great help!

Longswords seem like the most appropriate choice, and I love the links and information. Thanks again!

Oh, and is the holy book of the Unified just the Song of Unity? Or do they have something else?

[Zap Dynamic]

Oh, and is the holy book of the Unified just the Song of Unity? Or do they have something else?

They may have meditations written by priests or monks or something, but the Song of Unity is the revealed word of Mareal Turi. All books are written by man; the Song of Unity was written by Mareal Turi himself.

[Wyntonian]

Last question: (I promise!)

Do their priests go by any name? Father, Reverend, His Holiness? If you haven't decided yet, can I just keep my character as Father Ignatius?

[Landis963]

They may have meditations written by priests or monks or something, but the Song of Unity is the revealed word of Mareal Turi. All books are written by man; the Song of Unity was written by Mareal Turi himself.

"written by Mareal Turi himself"? Is this literal (http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Mysterium_Xarxes) or figurative (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible)?

[Zap Dynamic]

Like all things in this setting, it's up to the GMs and their tables to decide. :smallsmile:

[Pokonic]

Just saying that I am still looking at this, it's just that I don't have much to say. Great job with this whole thing, mate.

[Zap Dynamic]

Just saying that I am still looking at this, it's just that I don't have much to say. Great job with this whole thing, mate.

Thanks! I'm pretty much done with developing content for the Blackwood. At any rate, I've stopped developing the setting itself, and I'm now starting to flesh out the world with creatures and characters. I have a bestiary/NPC list that features about 20 individuals statted for Warrior, Rogue, and Mage, and I'm keeping a fairy-tale-esque "journal" of the campaign I'm running. If things pan out well, I'll probably end up codifying it as a smallish adventure path, and including it in the setting. I'll probably also end up creating a .pdf version of the setting (with bestiary and AP included) when all is said and done.

In the mean time, I'm slowly working on creating a map of the known (read: cared about) world, and from there I think it will be a lot easier to flesh out the other regions of the world.