Arena Tournament, Round 110: Cultist 2 vs ANTE

[ArenaManager]

Arena Tournament, Round 110: Cultist 2 vs. ANTE

Map:http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/ab330/ArenaManager/Arenas/ffa07-platforms.png

XP Award: 300 XP
GP Award: 300 GP
cultist 2 (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=328898) - jvluso
ANTE (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=310139) - TheFallenOne

All Combatants, please roll initiative and declare final purchases, if any

[TheFallenOne]

once more with feeling

[roll0]

[jvluso]

purchases -
-123 +1 merciful sling bullet
-.01 torch

init - [roll0]

[TheFallenOne]

is your equipment list up to date?

ML3 Tattoo of Psionic Vigor - 300 GP
Sunrod 2 GP

[jvluso]

Yes, as of the end of the last match.

Are tattoo's treated as if they have as many pp as the manifester level, or the minimum to use the power? (Will that tattoo five you 5 or 15 hp?)

Will your trick with the stp erudite crafting a tattoo work for corrosive grasp?

[TheFallenOne]

PP=ML

I fear you won't like the answer to the last one


When its wearer physically activates the tattoo, the wearer is the target of the power.

Corrosive Grasp has Targets: Creatures touched. Activating it would deal you acid damage, not give you the ability to deal acid damage.

[jvluso]

Starting position: (it's well lit, so you can see everything inside):

cultist 2 is in A13 holding a potion, a scroll, and two slings. The other 19 slings are loaded and are in his belt, along with another potion and two scrolls.
Jumpy is in A14/B15 with the torch strapped to his back
The lantern and oil are in B13, facing east.
Both the lantern and torch are lit, causing my starting box to be well lit, and your starting box to be treated as being well lit (low light vision.)

refs/spectators:
One bullet in one of the held slings is the magical one.

stats:
Hp:9/9
AC: 16 [touch 10,ff 16]

light: 1
guidance: 1
detect magic: 1
true strike: 1
faith healing: 1
entropic shield: 1

shift: 1
strength devotion: 1

[TheFallenOne]

ah sorry, I wasn't done with purchases. I just needed to know what I have to prepare for

Magebred mule
Riding saddle
Mage Armor potion

Any reactions?

[jvluso]

I was going to have reactions, but it was taking too long to figure out what they would be, so no changes.

[TheFallenOne]

starting in X13/Y14. Mounted on saddled mule, holding potion, lit bullseye lantern. Lit sunrod is in mule's mouth. Hide shield equipped.

ANTE Turn 1

ride to V10/W11
drop lantern in X12, centered X12/Y13, facing west
drink potion, drop vial
draw mace

done

Stats
HP 9/9
AC 24, Touch 11, FF 23(1 dex, 3 shield, 4 armor, 6 misc)
Psionically Focused
3/3 PP
Rageclaws shaped

Mage Armor please

[jvluso]

Um... I won initiative. When there is a tie, the person with the higher modifier goes first.

Cultist 2 - round 1

As long as this is all legal, and before your turn:


refs/spectators:
Noting this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8966083#post8966083) precedent that non-lethal damage is not absorbed by temporary hitpoints.

cultist 2:
move: move to D11 (not stepping in B13)
free: declare target for fury domain(ANTE)
swift: activate strength devotion
standard: ready an action:
When he ends his turn or attacks, cast a spell.

Jumpy:
delay

stats:
Hp:9/9
AC: 16 [touch 10,ff 16]

light: 1
guidance: 1
detect magic: 1
true strike: 1
faith healing: 1
entropic shield: 1

shift: 1
strength devotion: 1/10

You may revise your turn.

[TheFallenOne]

oh yeah. Misremembered our initiative results

same action, plus attempt cover riding
[roll0] DC 15

[jvluso]

readied action triggers when you end your turn: cast a spell, spellcraft DC 16:
True Strike

Cultist 2 - round 2

As long as this is all legal:


refs/spectators:
This could be fast

cultist 2:
swift: shift
move: move to L11
free shift sling to main hand (the magic one)
standard: attack:
attack roll - [roll0](20 true strike,2 profane,1 enhancement)
damage - [roll1]+[roll2]non-lethal

Jumpy:
delay

turn done

stats:
Hp:9/9
AC: 16 [touch 10,ff 16]

light: 1
guidance: 1
detect magic: 1
true strike: 0
faith healing: 1
entropic shield: 1

shift: 1/7
strength devotion: 2/10

[TheFallenOne]

Immediate: activate Time Mantle to delay damage

ANTE Turn 2

Standard: tap tattoo

done

Stats
HP 9/9+15 temp. 12 nonlethal
AC 24, Touch 11, FF 23(1 dex, 3 shield, 4 armor, 6 misc)
Psionically Focused
3/3 PP
Rageclaws shaped

Mage Armor please

btw the magebred mule is my standard issue(+4 strength, swift breed, improved natural attack)

[jvluso]

Cultist 2 - round 3

As long as this is all legal:


refs/spectators:
like a die roll without a die roller

cultist 2:
non-action: 5-ft step to K11
move: command jumpy to attack
standard: cast a spell from the scroll: spellcraft DC 16:
resist energy
cold

Jumpy:
run to V16/W17

turn done

stats:
Hp:9/9
AC: 16 [touch 10,ff 16]

light: 1
guidance: 1
detect magic: 1
true strike: 0
faith healing: 1
entropic shield: 1

resist energy: 1/100
shift: 2/7
strength devotion: 3/10

[TheFallenOne]

you still need to beat a DC 10 Handle Animal to give the attack command to any animal you're not currently riding

[jvluso]

[roll0]

If it fails, Jumpy delays.

[TheFallenOne]

draw Faith Healing potion
move to W9/X10 -> W14/X15. With the force pane in X14 still intact that is a ride DC 5
[roll0]

need result for rest of turn

[TheFallenOne]

ANTE Turn 3

Acid breath at Jumpy
[roll0] halved, Reflex 14 halves again
[roll1]
[roll2]
Free: potion to mouth

Mule attacks [roll3] -2 AC from Entangle
[roll4]

done

Stats
HP 9/9+15 temp. 12 nonlethal
AC 24, Touch 11, FF 23(1 dex, 3 shield, 4 armor, 6 misc)
Psionically Focused
3/3 PP
Rageclaws shaped

Mage Armor please

[jvluso]

reflex save - [roll0]

the attack misses

[jvluso]

Cultist 2 - round 4

As long as this is all legal:


refs/spectators:
next turn ...

cultist 2:
move: move to J10->J15
cast a spell:
guidance

Jumpy:
full attack ANTE
[roll0]; [roll1]
[roll2]; [roll3]

turn done

stats:
Hp:9/9
AC: 16 [touch 10,ff 16]

light: 1
guidance: 0
detect magic: 1
true strike: 0
faith healing: 1
entropic shield: 1

guidance: 1/10
resist energy: 2/100
shift: 3/7
strength devotion: 4/10

jumpy hp - 27/29

[jvluso]

I was just checking the ride rules. Isn't controlling your mount in battle a DC 20 Ride check which causes you to end your turn immediately if you fail?

[TheFallenOne]

that's only for animals not trained for battle

ANTE Turn 4

Free: drop mace
Free: potion to hand
Standard Drink potion, provoking AoO. drop vial
Move: pick up mace

Mule attacks
[roll0] [roll1]
[roll2] [roll3]

done

Stats
HP 9/9+15 temp. 3 nonlethal
AC 24, Touch 11, FF 23(1 dex, 3 shield, 4 armor, 6 misc)
Psionically Focused
3/3 PP
Rageclaws shaped

Mage Armor please

[TheFallenOne]

forgot to roll ongoing damage from Entangling Exhalation
[roll0]

[jvluso]

AOO: attack - [roll0]
damage - [roll1]

Cultist 2 - round 5

As long as this is all legal:


refs/spectators:
here we go.

Jumpy:
full attack ANTE

attack - [roll2]
damage - [roll3]
attack - [roll4]
damage - [roll5]

cultist 2:
charge ANTE
attack - [roll6](4str+2profane+1guidance+2charge)
damage - [roll7](4str+2profane+2circumstance+2untyped)

turn done

stats:
Hp:9/9
AC: 16 [touch 10,ff 16]

light: 1
guidance: 0
detect magic: 1
true strike: 0
faith healing: 1
entropic shield: 1

resist energy: 3/100
shift: 4/7
strength devotion: 5/10

jumpy hp - 16/29

[TheFallenOne]

ongoing acid damage [roll0]

ANTE Turn 5

breathe electricity on cultist
[roll1] halved, Reflex halves again
[roll2]
[roll3]

attacks directed at cultist
[roll4] [roll5]
[roll6] [roll7]

done

Stats
HP 9/9+15 temp. 3 nonlethal
AC 24, Touch 11, FF 23(1 dex, 3 shield, 4 armor, 6 misc)
Psionically Focused
3/3 PP
Rageclaws shaped

Mage Armor please

[jvluso]

His breath weapon is still on cool down.

[TheFallenOne]

Actually, I don't think so. From what I understand, a cooldown of 1 means you can use it one turn later, not that you have to skip a turn using it.


A dragonborn can use her breath weapon once every 1d4 rounds.

I rolled a 2 in Turn 3, that should mean I can use it again in Turn 5.

[jvluso]

I'm going to ask, because Dracionomicon routinely switches wording between "once every 1d4 rounds," and "wait 1d4 rounds between breaths," as if they were synonymous. Also, because recover breath specifies that you must still wait one round between breaths, and the standard breath doesn't, which using your interpretation, would make recover breath increase the wait time 1/4 of the time, and do nothing 1/4 of the time.

[02youeng]

High Ref 02youeng

[dusts off High Ref hat]

I'm gonna personally go with the Recover Breath reading of it - if you didn't have to wait an entire round for each turn you roll, then the feat itself is pointless or even harmful half the time. So, I'm going to say that you must spend two rounds without the breath weapon - if it was used in turn three, then it is unavailable in turns four and five.

The wording in Dracionomicon is annoying, so I'm going to use that feat as the basis of my argument, as feats are meant to be helpful overall, and there's only one reading that makes the feat a benefit.

TheFallenOne: If you have a counter-argument, please do say so - it's an iffy situation, so I'd happily debate it if you're unhappy with my reasoning.

[candycorn]

High Ref Candycorn

Not entirely sure about that. Please note that the specific text of an ability trumps the general procedures for handling that ability.

Wording of the specific ability:

A dragonborn can use her breath weapon once every 1d4 rounds.
Note, it does not state that after using it, the creature must wait 1d4 rounds. Only that in the time frame of (1d4 rounds), the creature may use its breath weapon (1) time.

Therefore, in this instance, in the time frame (2) rounds, ANTE may use his breath weapon (1) time. So, Time Frame, 2 rounds: (Round 3 and Round 4). Breath weapon used (1 time). This would mean that the time between uses has elapsed, and as of round 5, the ability is available again.

Side note, Jvluso:In round 1, you readied an action with the action of "cast a spell". That action is not typically considered specific enough. You need not specify the target of the spell you cast when you ready an action, but you must specify the spell you intend to cast.

As far as I can tell, there is no match impact for the error, so no need for a rewind. Just providing you with the information for future use.

[jvluso]

On that interpretation, what would prevent the two round time frame of (round 2 and 3) allowing a dragon born without recover breath to immediately use it again in (round 4)?

Also, how would feats which change the wait time between breaths interact with the time frames?

[candycorn]

Simple.

If you can breath once every 1d4 rounds, no feat, and you breathe in round 1, here's the time frames:

{table=header]Roll | Breathe again on Round?
1 | 2
2 | 3
3 | 4
4 | 5[/table]

With Recover Breath?

{table=header]Roll | Breathe again on Round?
1 | 2 (minimum 1 round, per feat)
1 | 2
2 | 3
3 | 4[/table]

There's nothing in the ability listing stating that you must wait X rounds AFTER using the breath weapon. Cooldowns of that mindset primarily exist in MMO's. This ability only states that you may use the ability 1 time in a specific time frame. Nothing in the rules precludes the round you breathe as part of that time frame. In fact, the round you breathe MUST be included in that time frame.

The wording isn't, "after breathing, you must wait X full rounds." It is, "you may breathe once every X rounds." So you count, starting from the round you breathe in, and when you get to X, the breath weapon is available again.

Roll of 1? Once every one rounds. Makes sense now, that the next round you may use it is next round.

Roll of 2? Once every two rounds, or every other round. Makes sense that You can't breathe on next round, but the following round, you're fine.

Roll of 3? Once every 3 rounds, or every third round. Makes sense that you can't breath on the next round, or the one after, but on the round after that, you're fine.

Roll of 4? Once every four rounds. So if Round 1 is the round you breathe, then Once is in Round 1. Round 1, 2, 3, and 4 are your four rounds, and you can breathe on round 5.

[Sallera]

*pulls out a rather dusty hat*

I think you're thinking too hard about this.

"Can't breathe again until 1d4 rounds later."

"Wait 1 round less than usual... but always at least 1 round."

A bit ambiguous, perhaps, if you squint, but the two are not contradictory. If you used your breath weapon last round, then one round has passed since you used it, and you may use it again. There's no need to insert an extra round of waiting in there, and this reading does not negatively affect Recover Breath. There are means enough to get two standard actions in a round (Belt of Battle, Celerity, Threefold Mask, etc.), or simply quickened breath weapons, that it's still necessary to specify that you can't have a 0-round cooldown on your breath weapon.

[jvluso]

reflex save - [roll0]
one attack hits

Cultist 2 - round 6

As long as this is all legal:


refs/spectators:
That was unfortunate. Now I only have one round (probably,) and have to deal with an additional -2.

Jumpy:
full attack ANTE

attack - [roll1]
damage - [roll2]
attack - [roll3]
damage - [roll4]

cultist 2:
full attack ANTE
claw
attack - [roll5](4str+2profane-2 entangled)
damage - [roll6](4str+2profane+2circumstance+2untyped)
claw
attack - [roll7](4str+2profane-2 entangled)
damage - [roll8](4str+2profane+2circumstance+2untyped)
slam
attack - [roll9](4str+2profane-2 entangled-5secondary)
damage - [roll10](4str+2profane+2circumstance+2untyped)

turn done

stats:
Hp:3 or 4/9
AC: 16 [touch 10,ff 16]

light: 1
guidance: 0
detect magic: 1
true strike: 0
faith healing: 1
entropic shield: 1

resist energy: 4/100
shift: 5/7
strength devotion: 6/10

jumpy hp - 12/29

[TheFallenOne]

[roll0]
[roll1]

ANTE Turn 6

direct mount to attack Cultist
[roll2] [roll3]
[roll4] [roll5]

not done

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo

*Shows up to solve problem*

*Discovers problem already solved*

*Wanders off*

[jvluso]

Cultist 2 falls to that. After all that discussion, it wouldn't have even mattered with 11 attacks over 3 turns, and not a single roll above a 10.

[Kyeudo]

GM Kyeudo

*Comes running back*

ANTE is the winner!