3.5 How do I shot arrow?

[INoKnowNames]

At this rate, I might make a thread on each of the characters that I'm currently playing as... (Shameless plug for anyone willing to help with my Shotoclone Swordsage) (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230346)
I'm trying to get into another game, and I feel like putting off being a somewhat sneaky, evassive character for long enough.

So I'm trying to focus on Archery based combat, because that's cool. I'm drawn between two things, though.

Do I want to be a full ranger and just use those feats and class features for archery, while gaining spells to augment it? If I did, I'd try to get some mounted combat with a wild cohort with nature's bond after trading the animal companion away for a different feature.

Or do I want to be a swift hunter, multiclassing both ranger and scout (we're starting at level 8, so I'd say 3 levels of Scout, 5 levels of Ranger), and focus on being mundane but cool, cover shooting and all of that...

Despite the coolness of the second, I'm suddenly wavering on whether or not I'd like it better than the first...

I know I'm not going to get a lot of damage (because if close ranged mundane can't get nice things, it would be even harder for long ranged mundane to get nice things), so I'm looking more for sure fire hits for at least decent damage, as well as lots of utility. If only I could get an Energy Bow, I wouldn't have to worry about ammo... but I'll probably need to ensure I have the skills and materials to be able to make more ammo later on. (32 point buy, by the way. Completely lost on where to go with it...)

Also, just for the record, I am a human elitist. No penalties to stats, + skill points (which have recently begun to be more and more important: I'll probably have to find room for Able Learner as a feat), and +1 feat is simply too good to pass up.

[Psyren]

I DUNNO SPIDEY LOL

Magic is as always the better option; Hunter's Eye from PHB2 gets your magic ranger comparable damage to a Swift Hunter build, plus all the added utility from your companion and other spells. Mystic Ranger and SotAO make your spells exponentially more powerful as well.

If you want a mundane archer that's fun though, I think there's a homebrew ToB archery discipline floating around the boards somewhere.

If you find yourself wanting to go Swift Hunter though, you need a way to get skirmish on full attacks; stuff like Travel Devotion, Anklets of Translocation etc.

[Greenish]

If your DM is willing to overlook the scout errata (which is stupid and should burn in fire), you could do mounted swift hunter.

Either way, you could start here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=642.0).

[INoKnowNames]

I DUNNO SPIDEY LOL

Magic is as always the better option; Hunter's Eye from PHB2 gets your magic ranger comparable damage to a Swift Hunter build, plus all the added utility from your companion and other spells. Mystic Ranger and SotAO make your spells exponentially more powerful as well.

If you want a mundane archer that's fun though, I think there's a homebrew ToB archery discipline floating around the boards somewhere.

If you find yourself wanting to go Swift Hunter though, you need a way to get skirmish on full attacks; stuff like Travel Devotion, Anklets of Translocation etc.

I subconciously did that...

I was thinking Magic would have been a good option... Don't I need just a 14 in Wisdom to make good use of Magic, or do I need to max my Wisdom? I suppose instead of multiclassing, I could go with prestiging... where are Mystic Ranger and whatever SotAO at?

I don't know why I'm so adverse to homebrew... I feel weird for asking for it. And I've milked the Tome of Battle into 3 of my games already. As much as I love it, I might need to get some experience outside of it if I can.

If I wasn't busy today, I could think more about what items to use... since I can't get an Energy Bow, I was thinking Magic Items for increased movement (and there fore full attacks) would be cool.


If your DM is willing to overlook the scout errata (which is stupid and should burn in fire), you could do mounted swift hunter.

Either way, you could start here (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=642.0).

I suppose I'll run that by her.... and I did see that page, but since it doesn't have anything after Martial Ranger, I was feeling a bit discouraged at first..

[Igneel]

One thing I did with my last archery build was go with Whisper Gnome with the Arcane Caster Favored Enemy (Complete Mage) and the Ranger racial substitution levels (Races of Stone) for a Dire Badger that I can talk to with a special at-will Speak with Animals only for it. Made for a interesting character both in mechanics in that in a semi-effect got a cohort without Leadership that can tank for him, along with a interesting Rping potential.

Archery Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=i7c5uejlbnv528vpmn63lokt13&topic=642.0), Swift Hunter Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=103.0), Mount Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7414.0), and Mystic Ranger, Shooting Star, Sword of The Arcane Order Mini-Guide (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=10830.0) should be able to help you more then I can.

[grarrrg]

I DUNNO SPIDEY LOL


Shouldn't the title be "How do I shot Arrow?"?

[Psyren]

Shouldn't the title be "How do I shot Arrow?"?

Yes. Yes it should.

[Ziegander]

I don't care what anyone says, typical, unoptimized archery is way better than typical unoptimized melee. With all of the attacks you're getting you'll deal right around the same damage as THW + Power Attack, and you're more versatile with trick arrows up your sleeve for different occasions. More than that, if you did go Ranger, which I recommend, Hunter's Mercy can give you an automatic critical in exchange for one 1st level spell slot. Seems nice, especially since we're talking about x3 damage.

Depending on your DMs interpretation of the Distracting Attack ACF for Rangers in Player's Handbook II, you might want to ditch your weak animal companion for a constant supply of Sneak Attack damage, via Hunter's Eye (which has already been mentioned). That right there will make your attacks deal quite a lot of damage, allowing you to skip the flaming, shocking, frost enchants for more utilitarian ones.

[INoKnowNames]

Shouldn't the title be "How do I shot Arrow?"?


Yes. Yes it should.

Fine, I'll fix it, if it'll get me more results...

That mystic ranger stuff seems odd... plus, it's Dragon Magazine stuff... hate Dragon Magazine...

[Psyren]

That mystic ranger stuff seems odd... plus, it's Dragon Magazine stuff... hate Dragon Magazine...

You'll be just fine without it, especially with Practiced Spellcaster. The underlying point is that magic > no magic, and MR is one of the best ways to improve Ranger magic.

[Telonius]

This idea has been kicking around in my head for awhile... but what about a refluffed Warlock? A "magical arrow" instead of an Eldritch Blast, and a bunch of the Invocations could be re-fluffed as wilderness and/or archery. It won't be super powerful, but it could definitely be competent if the other players are around that power level. (Really need to run some numbers to see how much damage an archer would typically get, compared to EB progression...)

[dsmiles]

Also, just for the record, I am a human elitist. No penalties to stats, + skill points (which have recently begun to be more and more important: I'll probably have to find room for Able Learner as a feat), and +1 feat is simply too good to pass up.
As a human elitist, myself, the Human Paragon makes you EXTRA humany. ANOTHER bonus feat, a skill that's ALWAYS a class skill, AND 2/3 casting. Granted, it's not for the power gamer, but I don't play that way if I don't have to.

[INoKnowNames]

I don't really want to focus too much on spellcasting, despite needing it. I only want to be awesome with a bow. Because Bows are pimp-tastic. I'm still not sure on how much I need in Wisdom for that spell casting...

I thought more about skirmish and the scout, and I think I'll stay ranger if I can. I'll miss the scout's instant trap finding and speed bonus, but I also think I want to stay as far away as I can, damaging and moving easily outside of the enemies distance, while turning them into pincussions....

I'll try to respond more as I can, but I'm going to be hanging out with a friend of mine all day today. Even though we're just friends, I'm really excited about her visiting. :smallredface:

[Torq]

I had a pretty effective and fun build that was something like:

Cloistered Cleric 1/Ranger 2/Scout 2

Took Travel and Knowledge devotion, used a wand of Hunter's Mercy and I was able to bring down hordes of ogres with class levels. It was a 1-on-1 campaign, and he made a pretty effective solo PC.

For the 6th level, I would've taken Swift Hunter and the bump in power would've been very considerable.

[Yuukale]

I'll add some food for thought: Why don't you go swift ambusher ? Scout/rogue (with a cloistered cleric dip for travel devotion shenanigans)

[grarrrg]

Last edited by INoKnowNames : Today at 10:36 AM. Reason: Because aparently I may as well go for the Spiderman Reference.

You are now my hero.

[Human Paragon 3]

As a human elitist, myself, the Human Paragon makes you EXTRA humany. ANOTHER bonus feat, a skill that's ALWAYS a class skill, AND 2/3 casting. Granted, it's not for the power gamer, but I don't play that way if I don't have to.

You rang? :smallwink:

[Ziegander]

I don't really want to focus too much on spellcasting, despite needing it. I only want to be awesome with a bow. Because Bows are pimp-tastic. I'm still not sure on how much I need in Wisdom for that spell casting...

Yeah, you only ever need Wisdom 14, and that's really only at higher level. You'll function just fine starting with an 11 in Wisdom, or even just 10 (just so you get 11 by 4th level), to cast Hunter's Mercy. Automatic criticals are just sexy good.

But definitely, the big edge archery has on melee is that enchanting arrows is dirt cheap, and having special material arrows laying around is even cheaper. An archer, in my opinion, should always have a few trick arrows up his sleeve of several different varieties. And there are a lot to choose from if you look around.

[Greenish]

I suppose I'll run that by her.... and I did see that page, but since it doesn't have anything after Martial Ranger, I was feeling a bit discouraged at first..That's because it's unfinished, not because martial archery is impossible. :smalltongue:

[Curmudgeon]

Well, I wanted to get into Arcane Archer (for a 2-level dip to acquire Imbue Arrow) from a divine spellcaster base and came up with this build, heavily focused on feats. It's not for a Human elitist, certainly.


Here's an archer build I came up with a while back, designed to get more archery-related feats in a mostly spellcasting build; it's got something for everybody. (Note: The cheesy Elf bonus feat swap may be RAW legal, but I recommend it only if you want to antagonize your DM.)

Race: Wood Elf (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/elf.htm#woodElf) (+2 DEX, +2 STR, -2 CON, -2 INT; Favored Class: Ranger). Alignment: within 1 step of Chaotic Good. You'll need to join the Order of the Shooting Star (see Champions of Valor). This build requires DEX 17 by the time you get to level 6 for Dead Eye, and DEX 19 later if you pick up Improved Precise Shot.


Cloistered Cleric 1 of Solonor Thelandira. Domains: Knowledge, War, Elf; gain Weapon Focus (longbow) and Point Blank Shot feats as granted powers. Level 1 feat: Precise Shot. Should pick up 1+ ranks in Knowledge (arcana) and 4 ranks in Knowledge (religion).
Mystic Ranger 1 (Ranger variant in Dragon # 336, page 105). Gain wild empathy, Track feat. Should pick up 5 ranks in Survival.
Cloistered Cleric 2. Level 3 feat: Far Shot.
Cloistered Cleric 3.
Mystic Ranger 2. Take Arcane Hunter ACF (Complete Mage, page 32) to get Favored Enemy: Arcanists. Gain 3 more ranks in Survival to get 8 total ranks.
Seeker of the Misty Isle (Complete Divine, page 61) 1. Gain Travel as bonus domain; convert this to Travel Devotion (Complete Champion, page 62) feat. Level 6 feat: Dead Eye (Dragon Compendium, page 95): add DEX bonus to arrow damage within 30'.
Mystic Ranger 3. Choose combat style: archery; this grants the Rapid Shot feat.
Mystic Ranger 4. Gain Endurance as a bonus feat.
Seeker of the Misty Isle 2. You'll now have BAB 6. Level 9 feat: Manyshot.
Seeker of the Misty Isle 3.
Seeker of the Misty Isle 4. Do the Dark Chaos Shuffle (Fiendish Codex I, pages 92 & 95) to swap Track and Endurance for

Sword of the Arcane Order feat (Champions of Valor, page 34): cast Wizard arcane spells in Ranger spell slots; and
Holy Warrior reserve feat (Complete Champion, page 60): add level of highest reserved War spell to weapon damage.
You'll now have Cleric 7 spellcasting, BAB 8, and can cast Ranger/Wizard spells at levels 0-2.
If you want to spread on the cheese sauce, this is where you would do the Dark Chaos Shuffle with the 4 Elf bonus feats
Weapon Proficiency: Elves receive the Martial Weapon Proficiency feats for the longsword, rapier, longbow (including composite longbow), and shortbow (including composite shortbow) as bonus feats. and pick up Extend Spell, Persistent Spell, Divine Metamagic (Persistent Spell), and Extra Turning; persist Divine Power to keep your BAB up all day.

At this point you qualify to enter Arcane Archer, or you can continue with Seeker of the Misty Isle for more Cleric spellcasting plus other benefits of that PrC.

With Divine Power you'll be at BAB 11.
You'll add (DEX mod +1) to attacks, and (with a composite longbow) (STR mod +4) to damage. (The +1 is from Weapon Focus; the +4 is from Holy Warrior.)
Within 30' you'll add an additional +1 to attacks, and (DEX mod + 1) to damage. (The +1 is from Point Blank Shot; the DEX mod is from Dead Eye.)
You'll have 10 useful feats (or 14 with the cheesy sauce added), without flaws. If at some point you think you've got enough skill ranks in the various Knowledges, you can convert Knowledge domain to Knowledge Devotion for bonuses to attack and damage against the corresponding creature types.

[Yuukale]

Yeah, you only ever need Wisdom 14, and that's really only at higher level. You'll function just fine starting with an 11 in Wisdom, or even just 10 (just so you get 11 by 4th level), to cast Hunter's Mercy. Automatic criticals are just sexy good.

I used to like hunter's mercy, but 1std to cast and the crit applying only to the first arrow shot... i don't think it's THAT sexy (considering you'll lose one round worth of shooting to cast the spell). I think it works best if you just go manyshot but then you won't be able to apply skirmish to all your arrows.

If you're set to swift hunter instead of perhaps, ambusher, try to convince your dm to base some stories around your fav. enemies and then go enemy hunting (which also has some decent support).

[INoKnowNames]

The biggest reason I'm against Swift Ambusher is because there's already going to be a party member who is a Rogue (hopefully I'll not have to compete against the possible Druid...) I'm actually less set on trapfinding and skirmish because of this.... I'm considering full Ranger, actually, so long as I can get decent damage with my bow.... I need to list skills, here... The sooner I can figure out how much Int I need, between things that are required and that are useful, the sooner I can get stats finalized, and then go on build from there.

Although, due to character profile, I'm seeing Positive Strength, Good Dexterity, Negative Constitution, Good (if not Great Intelligence), Positive Wisdom, and Dumped Charisma. He's a hefty person and has the muscles to support his bulk, and has gained accelerated reflexes during his line of work. However, he cries at random injuries and complains about minor bruises (although he wouldn't shed so much as a single tear upon something actually painful, like a limb removal or impalement). He is immature (though his senses and perceptions of life are improving rapidly), and he is not very persuasive (plus, he's a complete and total pervert), but despite this he's incredibly intelligent.

[INoKnowNames]

I did a little Research...

I need at least 13 Wisdom to be able to cast 3rd Level Ranger Spells, correct? And I can't gain this wisdom through items that increase Wisdom unless the ability score increase is permanent, correct?

A Base 10 in Wisdom with each point gained from leveling up going into it seems like it would be relatively safe for a Ranger... There are so many neat Ranger Spells to use, including Greater Magic Weapon, Animalistic Power, Curse of Arrow Attraction, and Reduce Animal (since I'm not certain about the maneuverability of a Dire Wolf, which I think is Large, in Dungeons), as well as the aforementioned Hunter's Eye...

I'm kinda thinking Swift Hunter 3 (Skill Point Heaven, but that's another issue) ---> Ranger 5, at least for before the game starts. From there, I'll probably try to figure out what I'd do next for my progression, but it would probably be a mix of the two.

1st Level and Bonus Feats would be Able Learner and Wild Cohort, with maybe Natural Bond (she says that's cool to match it) or Mounted Combat at 3rd, with the later, as well as Mounted Archery and any other feats that are connected to the two (as well as any Archery Feats I can go ahead and start talking; thank goodness for the Ranger Fighting Styles). Obviously, Swift Hunter is 6th. Edit: Definitely taking Natural Bond at 3rd level so I have a Full Strength Animal Companion. I'll be riding either a Dire Wolf or a Tiger. Bad Ass.

While I'm thinking about Swift Hunter, which class becomes more important with the main features supported by both rather than one? I feel like it might be Ranger, since it not only has more BAB and the Ranger Spells, but also the Ranger Combat Styles. Then again, Scout has more Skill Points (which I've suddenly become very fond off in my characters), as well as Bonus Feats.... What's the maximum number of Scout levels I can take and still get 4 attacks at Level 20?

What, exactly, can I exchange my Animal Companion for, since I'm not going to be taking 2 of them? Just the Distracting Attack ability (which is also awesome)? Also, she did say I can do Skirmish Damage while Mounted, so I will be trying to get the best of both worlds there.

Is it okay if I forget the Mystic Ranger and Soata thing? I'm still not really feeling it... And despite perfectly accepting and understanding it from other people, I'm not the type to refluff things. At least not something like an Eldrich Blast? I've never considered a Warlock before... and I don't think I'm in the mindset to do so now.

Human Paragon is cool, but multiclassing as I have is hard enough to consider, and someone recommends taking some Cleric Levels for Turn Undead... Jesus... I don't even know how that works without an exp penalty, even as a Human... not to mention my poor Bab... Also, that other Ranger Build is.... wow... if I wasn't a species-ist, I'd take it...

Also, in exchange for 4 Constitution, I GET TO PURCHASE AN ENERGY BOW! -HELL- -YEAH-! AWESOME SAUCE! ENERGY BOW IS A GO-GO BABY! You can't put a price on something -THAT- Bad Ass! Although now that I think about it, I wonder what's worth the rest of my Wealth Balance per Level.... I can worry about that later though, 'CAUSE I'VE GOT AN ENERGY BOW! HECK YEAH! Only thing cooler's an Energy Sword...

[Curmudgeon]

I did a little Research...

I need at least 13 Wisdom to be able to cast 3rd Level Ranger Spells, correct? And I can't gain this wisdom through items that increase Wisdom unless the ability score increase is permanent, correct?
No, not correct. The Owl’s Wisdom spell has a specific prohibition against gaining bonus spells, but generally most other WIS-boosting means have no such stipulation. If your Wisdom is boosted throughout your spell preparation and continues until you cast the spell(s), you'll meet the Ranger class requirement.
To prepare or cast a spell, a ranger must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level. There's no special treatment for the individual components making up your Wisdom; all that matters is the total score.

[INoKnowNames]

No, not correct. The Owl’s Wisdom spell has a specific prohibition against gaining bonus spells, but generally most other WIS-boosting means have no such stipulation. If your Wisdom is boosted throughout your spell preparation and continues until you cast the spell(s), you'll meet the Ranger class requirement. There's no special treatment for the individual components making up your Wisdom; all that matters is the total score.

I was made a little bit happier, but then I realised: How many other ways can you gain Wisdom?

[Heatwizard]

I was made a little bit happier, but then I realised: How many other ways can you gain Wisdom?

A Periapt of Wisdom +2/4/6 is the one you're most likely to find, and will probably push your score past 14.

[INoKnowNames]

A Periapt of Wisdom +2/4/6 is the one you're most likely to find, and will probably push your score past 14.

That's actually what I had assumed, and I didn't think such items could help you with your spellcasting, only augment your skills or abilities, or maybe the difficulty checks or something.

I dunno, I usually just stick to grabbing the biggest phalic object I can and ramming it into the soft fleshy parts of the people who I want onto the ground so I can inspect their bodies for anything I like.

So, how many levels in Scout can I take and still gain 4 attacks? I'm not sure how the math for BAB comes together, but it seems like I could do an even 10-10 Split and pull it off, gaining BAB 17-12-7-2.

[Darrin]

So, how many levels in Scout can I take and still gain 4 attacks? I'm not sure how the math for BAB comes together, but it seems like I could do an even 10-10 Split and pull it off, gaining BAB 17-12-7-2.

The traditional "Swift Hunter" build is usually Scout 4/Ranger 16 or Scout 5/Ranger 15. There's generally very little reason to go much further with Scout than that. It basically boils down to how early to do want Evasion? Scout gets it at 5, Ranger gets it at 9. (I prefer only taking 4 levels of Scout, but YMMV.)

[Greenish]

That's actually what I had assumed, and I didn't think such items could help you with your spellcasting, only augment your skills or abilities, or maybe the difficulty checks or something.A stat is a stat. A periapt of wisdom boosts your spellcasting just like gauntlets of giant's strength make the beatstick that much beatier.

[INoKnowNames]

The traditional "Swift Hunter" build is usually Scout 4/Ranger 16 or Scout 5/Ranger 15. There's generally very little reason to go much further with Scout than that. It basically boils down to how early to do want Evasion? Scout gets it at 5, Ranger gets it at 9. (I prefer only taking 4 levels of Scout, but YMMV.)

I suppose it shows how green I really am in that I was considering Scout 11 for the sake of +10 feet of movement....

If one class gives me Evasion, don't I get Improved Evasion from both? Or is it worth trading away one of them for that Spell Reflection ability?


A stat is a stat. A periapt of wisdom boosts your spellcasting just like gauntlets of giant's strength make the beatstick that much beatier.

I guess I see your point. So, such fake sources of Casting Stat (and I use fake only because they can be taken away) power up everything except Bonus Spells Known? I say this like I know what that actually entails....

[Socratov]

Personally I'd make a sniper build with swift hunter, improved skirmish (CompSc), woodland archer (for the moving sniper), zen archery, pump only your wis and str, and some other nice feats.

more on archery can be found in here (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19866186/The_Ultimate_Archer_Handbook)

have fun!

[Greenish]

I guess I see your point. So, such fake sources of Casting Stat (and I use fake only because they can be taken away) power up everything except Bonus Spells Known? I say this like I know what that actually entails....Your stats, real or "fake", have nothing to do with your spells known.

Stats from bling work just like stats from leveling up. They increase your spells per day and/or spell DCs, and whatever else that happens to be relevant.

[INoKnowNames]

Personally I'd make a sniper build with swift hunter, improved skirmish (CompSc), woodland archer (for the moving sniper), zen archery, pump only your wis and str, and some other nice feats.

more on archery can be found in here (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19866186/The_Ultimate_Archer_Handbook)

have fun!

I do hope to take Improved Skirmish. If I can, I'd sooner take Ranged Skirmish, the -ONE- thing I've seen in the Dragon Magazine that I actually want enough to ask for it.

Also, isn't Zen Archery a bit of a trap? Considering how lots of Bow based Feats requirer high amounts of Dex, you can't really forget it... Plus, Dex makes me harder to hit, and with 15 hit points I'm squishier than a Wizard normally is.

As Feat Starved as I am, Woodland Archer seems cool...


Your stats, real or "fake", have nothing to do with your spells known.

Stats from bling work just like stats from leveling up. They increase your spells per day and/or spell DCs, and whatever else that happens to be relevant.

I thought that bling made from a spell was subject to the same limitations of that spell, and as such that you couldn't get more spells known from them... huh...

Human Bonus: Able Learner
Level 1: Wild Cohort
Level 3: Natural Bond (with both of these, I get a full strength Druid Companion, right?)
Level 6: Swift Hunter.

Hopefully, at level 9, I can take Ranged Skirmish... after that, I'm not sure which Archery Feats I still need (let alone which of them I can take as bonus feats), and how much room I'll have for Mounted Combat Feats... A 4th Level in Scout for the bonus feat (Point Blank Shot) is definitely in the wings. I need Precise Shot if I'm going to upgrade my Awesome Epic Energy Bow with the Splitting Upgrade..

[Darrin]

I suppose it shows how green I really am in that I was considering Scout 11 for the sake of +10 feet of movement....


There are much better ways to get +10' movement than taking an additional 6-7 levels of a tier 4 base class. Boots of Striding and Springing, for example, are only 5500 GP. A 1-level dip into Barbarian or some other PrC could also get you Fast Movement.



If one class gives me Evasion, don't I get Improved Evasion from both? Or is it worth trading away one of them for that Spell Reflection ability?


By RAW, neither the Ranger or Monk Evasion ability (Scout specifically references the Monk ability) explicitly mention a clause for stacking Evasion x2 = Improved Evasion. However, a Scout 5/Ranger 9 doubles up on Evasion at ECL 14, five levels after it's available to the Monk, so it would not be in any way unbalanced or overpowered to let it stack into Improved Evasion. It would be entirely appropriate at that ECL and it fits the fluff of an agile/highly mobile skirmisher, so I don't think it'd be too much of a stretch to ask your DM to house-rule it in. (It might be regarded as a bit of a d-bag move if he said "No".)

As for the Spell Reflection ACF... never played with it, so I'm not entirely sure how useful it is. Hopefully someone else can illuminate us on that point.

[Cerlis]

throughout alot of books there are many spells for assassin, ranger, bard and paladin that "make them better at what they do", For instance instead of being fireballs, magic berries and entangle spells alot of the Complete series have spells that make them better assassins/rangers/ect

I think its in complete adventure, but once such spell i believe allows you to make and arrow attack at every target within range. Another, is what you mentioned, magic arrow. Prepare or have a scroll of Magic weapon (even if you have to buy it, the fact that you can cast it makes it doable) you can suddenly turn any bow you find into an effective + weapon.

As a weak caster, but caster none the less, your strength is in using buff spells (offensive casters need high lvls spells and high ability score to wrack up their save DCs, you dont) to augment your strengths.


-------------

Also Since i dont think i saw you respond to it, make sure you use those trick arrows. There are fire arrows, blunt arrows (Subdual dmg. Perfect for smacking someone upside the head from afar ), Slicing arrows (piercing does half dmg to objects, perfect for cutting rope)


Also make sure to have good points in hide and move silently. u arent the skill monkey, but it would definately be great if you avoided the situation of the rogue dying because he had to go alone cus he was the only one without two left feat.

[INoKnowNames]

There are much better ways to get +10' movement than taking an additional 6-7 levels of a tier 4 base class. Boots of Striding and Springing, for example, are only 5500 GP. A 1-level dip into Barbarian or some other PrC could also get you Fast Movemnt.

I guess I see your point... just to clarify for myself on the rest of the things a Scout can get:


There are definitely ways by level 20 to gain Blindsight or some other type of superior vision, right?
Same for Freedom of Movement, I assume.
Hide in Plain Sight might be lost, but it's kind of a meh ability anyway for it's level.
I'll gain Camo as a Ranger easily.
There are probably items to help make up for my horrible fortitude, as well as that improve my initiative, right?
Flawless Stride may as well be Woodland Stride, and is just as little a priority...
And, hopefully, I'll find a way to complete this character with the feats that I have....


Everything else should be covered by the Swift Hunter ability, if I'm reading everything right. Or it should be outright covered by the Ranger Class. Or through future WBL (that is not going to be sucked into the maw of my awesome Energy Bow that is awesome).


By RAW, neither the Ranger or Monk Evasion ability (Scout specifically references the Monk ability) explicitly mention a clause for stacking Evasion x2 = Improved Evasion. However, a Scout 5/Ranger 9 doubles up on Evasion at ECL 14, five levels after it's available to the Monk, so it would not be in any way unbalanced or overpowered to let it stack into Improved Evasion. It would be entirely appropriate at that ECL and it fits the fluff of an agile/highly mobile skirmisher, so I don't think it'd be too much of a stretch to ask your DM to house-rule it in. (It might be regarded as a bit of a d-bag move if he said "No".)

Nah, I've been annoying the heck out of her. That I'm still in the running for the game is probably a miracle in and of itself. I have something to do if I don't get improved evasion, and I have... well, improved evasion if I do.


As for the Spell Reflection ACF... never played with it, so I'm not entirely sure how useful it is. Hopefully someone else can illuminate us on that point.

Thankfully it's a decision I don't immediately have to make in any case.


throughout alot of books there are many spells for assassin, ranger, bard and paladin that "make them better at what they do", For instance instead of being fireballs, magic berries and entangle spells alot of the Complete series have spells that make them better assassins/rangers/ect

I've been sold on the spell part of those classes being more useful just through the Spell Compendium. I'll definitely try to look in the complete series, although I'll have to do a little work around just to get more spells now.... I decided to start with 14 Str, 16 Dex, and 14 Wis, and put my 2 level up points into Dex, rather than start with 12 Str, 18 Dex, and 10 Wis, and put my 2 points into Wis. Mechanically, it just makes sense.


I think its in complete adventure, but once such spell i believe allows you to make and arrow attack at every target within range. Another, is what you mentioned, magic arrow. Prepare or have a scroll of Magic weapon (even if you have to buy it, the fact that you can cast it makes it doable) you can suddenly turn any bow you find into an effective + weapon.

I do need to look for that spell... That's a "Like a Boss" cool spell, making 1 shot strike every single enemy within range... heck, if I could get Skirmish from that, I'd be a very happy person!


As a weak caster, but caster none the less, your strength is in using buff spells (offensive casters need high lvls spells and high ability score to wrack up their save DCs, you dont) to augment your strengths.

Which makes me wonder how much Swift Hunter really brings to the table compared to a straight Ranger relying on his spell casting... then again, with a Druid -and- a Cleric to possibly get in, I should be careful about trying to rely on my spells more than my skill.



Also Since i dont think i saw you respond to it, make sure you use those trick arrows. There are fire arrows, blunt arrows (Subdual dmg. Perfect for smacking someone upside the head from afar ), Slicing arrows (piercing does half dmg to objects, perfect for cutting rope)

I'm trying to figure out, between say the food items, mug of drinking, armor, and some extradimensional holding space, where to pull the money out to get a quiver. I've only got 4400 Gp remaining, so it's a tight fit to try to think of everything I need... Still, Energy Bow. Pimp. I decided I'm getting a Tiger as my companion. I'ma fluff it to be a Black Tiger, so I can be even more pimp.


Also make sure to have good points in hide and move silently. u arent the skill monkey, but it would definately be great if you avoided the situation of the rogue dying because he had to go alone cus he was the only one without two left feat.

.... How much of a misconception am I making, exactly? I thought I -was- a Skill Monkey, considering cute 6x skill points (not to mention 8x from Scout Levels) and a very decent skill list. That said, I do intend to get some ranks in Hide and Move Silently, and work with the Rogue player.

Here's my character sheet, by the way. (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=371210)I'm still trying to figure everything out for it for what I've got so far. Right now, I'm trying to decide skills...

And thanks to everyone who has helped me so far!