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PairO'Dice Lost
2012-02-14, 01:35 PM
This is the OOC thread for the Masters of the Nine Swords game; the IC thread is here


PlayerCharacter
BelGarethAbd al-Aziz (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=369143)
StackTorog Three-Mountains (http://www.dndsheets.net/view.php?id=31015) On Vacation
DrK4 of 9 (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=349785)
mrcarter11Belcor (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=463353)
TekHedKoan (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=209006)


If your background information is not on your character sheet, please either copy it there or repost it in this thread, as recruitment threads tend to disappear without warning. After that, everyone please pick a speech color and head over to the IC thread to get started.

The 16 Questions1. What game system are you running?
2. What 'type' or variant of game will it be? What is the setting for the game?

D&D 3.5, set two years after the fall of the Temple of the Nine Swords.

3. How many Players are you looking for? Will you be taking alternates, and if so, how many?

I'm taking 4 players; I'll consider keeping other players as alternates in case people drop, but since their characters will have to have the same discipline focus as the character they're replacing, alternate characters may need to be tweaked if that comes up.

4. What's the gaming medium (OOTS, chat, e-mail etc.)?

Here on the PbP forums.

5. What is the characters' starting status (i.e. experience level)?
6. How much gold or other starting funds will the characters begin with?

15th level, with 100,000gp to spend. No more than 1/2 may be spent on a single item. See Houserules, below, as well.

You also possess the legacy weapon of your chosen discipline, with all of the rituals unlocked. You do not take any of the associated penalties for wielding it, because (A) you're masters of the discipline, you're Just That Good and (B) the idea of imposing penalties for those weapons is a stupid one to begin with.

7. Are there any particular character classes, professions, orders, etc. that you want... or do not want? What are your rules on 'prestige' and/or homebrewed classes?

You must take at least 2/3 your levels in one of the martial adept base classes or ToB prestige classes. Other classes are certainly allowed (e.g. a few levels of fighter for complementary feats or a level or two of wizard for JPM) but the build should really remain focused around the ToB side of things and you should have a good reason for going outside the martial adept classes.

You may request homebrew base classes and PrCs, though no homebrew disciplines will be allowed; there are 9 and only 9 disciplines in this game. I'd prefer if you stuck to the base 3 classes, but if you must go with a different base class you can request it. No homebrew PrCs that don't at least partially advance maneuvers or aren't related to ToB somehow will be allowed.

8. What races, subraces, species, etc. are allowed for your game? Will you allow homebrewed races or species? 'Prestige' races or species?

Any official races are allowed. No homebrew races.

9. By what method should Players generate their attributes/ability scores and Hit Points?

32 point buy, max HP at first level and average HP thereafter.

10. Does your game use alignment? What are your restrictions, if so?

Alignment really only matters for Devoted Spirit and Crusaders; this game is more "our temple vs. their temple" than good vs. evil or law vs. chaos.

11. Do you allow multi-classing, or have any particular rules in regards to it?

Go wild, keeping in mind the above restrictions on your build. There is no multiclassing XP penalty.

12. Will you be doing all of the die rolling during the course of the game? Will die rolls be altered, or left to the honor system? If players can make die rolls, which ones do they make, how should they make the rolls, and how should they report them?

Use the forum dice roller. You make your rolls, I'll make NPC rolls, though I might make some hidden rolls for you or roll saves and such to save time.

13. Are there any homebrewed or optional/variant rules that your Players should know about? If so, list and explain them, or provide relevant links to learn about these new rules.

You must take all possible maneuvers for your discipline before taking maneuvers outside your discipline, when choosing maneuvers granted by your class; Martial Study and Martial Stance can let you pick up maneuvers outside that discipline, as normal.

Shields apply their AC bonus to touch AC and Reflex saves as well.

We're using the defense bonus variant, slightly modifier. Add half the listed defense bonus for your class (warblades and crusaders use column D, swordsages use column B) as a deflection bonus to AC and increase whatever armor bonus to AC you have by the remainder. Thus, anyone with at least 1 level in a non-barbarian full-BAB class has +5 deflection and +6 improvement to armor at start, while a pure swordsage or swordsage/barbarian has +4 deflection and +4 improvement to armor at start.

To try to emphasize that you're Just That Good martial adepts, the following changes are made to feats and ability boosts:
--Everyone gains 2 bonus feats at 1st level (like flaws, but without the downside!) and gains feats at every odd level instead of every 3rd level after that.
--The Big 6 items (items granting enhancement bonuses to ability scores, resistance bonuses to saves, enhancement or deflection or natural armor bonuses to AC, and enhancement bonuses to attack) no longer have those functions. Instead, you gain +1 to each ability score at every even level, which roughly approximates these bonuses while making you more all-around competent. Any bonuses of these sorts that the legacy weapons grant are now typed as sacred bonuses, so you still get them.

14. Is a character background required? If so, how big? Are you looking for anything in particular (i.e. the backgrounds all ending up with the characters in the same city)?

Explain how you came to the Temple originally, how/why you survived the Battle of the Nine Swords, anything relating to why you chose your discipline, and general history/personalty. Anything beyond that is up to you.

15. Does your game involve a lot of hack & slash, puzzle solving, roleplaying, or a combination of the above?

I'll attempt to make the game roughly half intrigue/exploration/RPing (countering the opposing Temple's agents, finding the whereabouts of the other Swords and retrieving them, etc.) and half combat (mostly against classed NPCs of the opposing Temple, though there will be monsters as well), but that obviously can change based on your actions.

16. Are your Players restricted to particular rulebooks and supplements, or will you be allowing access to non-standard material? What sources can Players use for their characters?

Subject to the restrictions above, all official 3e sources are open, including Dragon magazine and setting books (though please de-flavor the setting-specific stuff).

Allowed Homebrew
General Changes
Any maneuver that deals Xd6 damage instead deals Xd8 damage.
Any maneuver that deals less base damage than [minimum maneuver level]d6 (1d6 for a 1st level maneuver, 3d6 for a 2nd level maneuver, etc.) deals that much damage instead.

1st Level

Blistering Flourish: Change the saving throw text from "Fortitude negates" to "Fortitude partial; see text." Add the following text to the end of the first paragraph: "If you have 19 or more ranks in Tumble, creatures affected by this maneuver are instead blinded for 1 round and then dazzled for 1 minute; a successful Fortitude save negates the period of dazzling and reduces the blinding to dazzling."

Distracting Ember: Replace the text "It takes no actions or attacks of opportunity during your turn." with "As soon as it appears, it makes a single melee attack against an enemy that you designate within its reach, and it may take attacks of opportunity as normal."

2nd Level

Burning Brand: Add the following text at the end of the first paragraph: "You may choose to have one of the attacks you make during your turn resolved as a melee touch attack, however the chosen attack does not benefit from any bonuses to damage deriving from your Strength bonus, Power Attack, or any other source that relies on physical force to deal extra damage."

Flashing Sun: The type of this maneuver changes from Strike to Boost. Delete the sentence "As part of this maneuver, you take a full attack action and make your normal melee attacks." from the maneuver's description.

Hatchling's Flame: Replace the text "2d6 points of fire damage" with "1d8 fire damage, plus 1d8 per two initiator levels beyond 1st (maximum 7d8)."

3rd Level

Death Mark: Replace the text "6d6 points of fire damage" with "6d8 fire damage, plus 1d8 per size category the creature is above Small."

Holocaust Cloak: Add the following text at the end of the first paragraph: "An opponent that ends its turn adjacent to you takes an additional 5 points of fire damage."

Zephyr Dance: Add the following text at the end of the maneuver description: "If you have 19 or more ranks in Tumble, this bonus also applies against all successive attacks the opponent makes against you on his turn."

4th Level

Firesnake: Change the duration from "Instantaneous" to "3 rounds, or Concentration (maximum 1 round per initiator level); see text." Replace the third paragraph with the following: "A firesnake normally must move along the ground, paying the standard movement penalties for difficult terrain and other effects. If you choose to directly control the firesnake by concentrating on its movement (requiring a standard action each round), you may cause the firesnake to move as if flying."

5th Level

Dragon's Flame: Increase the range from 30 feet to 60 feet.

Lingering Inferno: Change the duration from "3 rounds; see text" to "1 round per 3 initiator levels; see text" and modify the maneuver's description appropriately.

Leaping Flame: Add the following text at the end of the first paragraph: "If you successfully move adjacent to your opponent, you may make a single attack of opportunity against him."

6th Level

Desert Tempest: Replace the text "Your movement provokes attacks of opportunity, as normal." with "This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity."

Fiery Assault: Replace the text "an extra 1d6 points of fire damage" with "an extra 3d8 fire damage."

Ring of Fire: Add "Duration: 3 rounds" to the maneuver statistics block. Remove the second paragraph of the maneuver description.

8th Level

Rising Phoenix: Replace the text "dealing 3d6 points of fire damage to creatures adjacent to or within the column, including creatures adjacent to your square." with "dealing 5 points of fire damage to creatures adjacent to or within your space and forcing a Fortitude save (DC 18 + your Wis modifier) to avoid becoming fatigued for 1 round. A creature that is already fatigued by some other means than this maneuver becomes exhausted upon failing its saving throw; a creature that is already fatigued by this maneuver is not affected further."

Wyrm's Flame: Replace the text "10d6 points of fire damage" with "1d6+2 points of fire damage per initiator level."

9th Level

Inferno Blast: Increase the area from a 60-foot radius to a 90-foot radius, and change the saving throw entry from "Reflex half" to "Reflex partial." Add the following text to the end of the first paragraph: "Creatures that fail their Reflex saves catch on fire. You may choose to affect unattended objects in the area as well as creatures, in which case they take full damage and automatically catch fire if they are not destroyed outright."
1st Level

OASIS BREEZE STANCE
Desert Wind (Stance)
Level: Swordsage 1
Initiation Action: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Stance
An easy, repetitive motion of one hand causes the wind to circle gently around you, cooling yourself and your allies and making a desert trek less harsh.
While you are in this stance, you and all allies within 60 feet gain the benefits of an endure elements effect. In addition, you never take difficult terrain penalties from moving over loose sand or gravel, and you are immune to dessication and dehydration.

This maneuver is a supernatural ability.

4th Level

SCORCHING GALE
Desert Wind (Strike) [Air]
Level: Swordsage 4
Prerequisite: Two Desert Wind maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 standard action
Range: 30 ft.
Target: One creature
Saving Throw: Reflex partial
A hot wind swirls around you as you swing your blade above your head, then blasts your target away as you slash your sword at him.
When you initiate this maneuver, make a bull rush attack (PHB 154) against your target. Resolve the bull rush attempt normally, substituting your Wis modifier for your Str modifier. If you succeed, you may push the target in any direction desired, even straight up into the air, and the target must make a Reflex save (DC 14 + your Wis modifier) or be knocked prone at the end of his movement.

This maneuver is a supernatural ability.

ZEPHYR SPRINT
Desert Wind (Boost)
Level: Swordsage 4
Prerequisite: Two Desert Wind maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: End of turn
You glide effortlessly across the sands, feet barely touching the ground.
The desert wind envelops you and carries you over and around any obstacles. When you initiate this maneuver, you may immediately move up to your base land speed, ignoring difficult terrain in your way. This movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

5th Level

FLENSING WIND
Desert Wind (Strike) [Air, Earth]
Level: Swordsage 5
Prerequisite: Two Desert Wind maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 standard action
Range: 30 ft.
Area: Cone
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial
You thrust your sword into the ground, then bring it up in a slashing motion. A powerful burst of sand-filled wind accompanies the motion, scouring the flesh from the bones of all in its path.
A creature within the area of this maneuver must make a Fortitude save (DC 15 + your Wis modifier) or experience the effects of a windstorm (see Wind Effects, DMG 95) blowing from your space to the limits of the maneuver's area. Whether or not they succeed on their saving throw, creatures in the area take 5d8 piercing and slashing damage from the high-velocity sand and grit carried by the wind.

This maneuver is a supernatural ability.

STANCE OF BUFFETING WINDS
Desert Wind (Stance) [Air, Fire]
Level: Swordsage 5
Prerequisite: Two Desert Wind maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Stance
You wrap your blade in layers of whirling air, allowing you to more easily bat away enemy blows and more easily subdue your opponents without harm.
While you are in this stance, you may choose to deal nonlethal damage with your weapon without suffering the normal -4 penalty to attack for doing so; any maneuvers that would deal fire damage instead deal nonlethal fire damage, with no visible manifestation aside from a slight heat distortion in the air (Spot DC 20 to notice). Additionally, you do not provoke attacks of opportunity when attempting combat maneuvers for which you do not possess the Improved [Maneuver] feat, and you gain a 50% miss chance against ranged weapon attacks and attacks of opportunity from movement.

This maneuver is a supernatural ability.

STANCE OF THE PARCHING SUN
Desert Wind (Stance) [Air, Fire]
Level: Swordsage 5
Prerequisite: Two Desert Wind maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Stance
By changing the movement of your blade just slightly, you can use your ki to produce blasts of superheated air rather than flame.
While you are in this stance, any maneuvers that would deal fire damage instead deal dessication damage. This means that they ignore fire resistance and immunity, deal +50% damage to oozes, plants, and creatures with the (Water) subtype, and have no visible manifestation aside from a slight heat distortion in the air (Spot DC 20 to notice), but the do not affect objects or nonliving creatures and can be resisted by effects that protect against dessication, dehydration, or extreme heat.

This maneuver is a supernatural ability.

6th Level

HOWLING SIROCCO
Desert Wind (Strike) [Air, Earth]
Level: Swordsage 6
Prerequisite: Three Desert Wind maneuvers
Initiation Action: Standard Action
Range: 90 feet
Area: One wall section per initiator level
Duration: 1 round per 3 initiator levels
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial
With a wave of your hand, the wind kicks up a sheet of sand to blot out the sun.
You conjure a vertical wall of abrasive sand that blocks the path and proves hazardous to pass through. Each section of the wall is five feet wide and ten feet tall, and the wall can be arranged in any shape desired as long as one wall section is adjacent to your space when created, all wall sections are contiguous, and no wall section touches more than two others. The wall cannot be conjured so that it initially occupies the same space as a creature or another object. The wall blocks line of sight and is treated as a wind wall for determining what can pass through it. When a creature attempts to pass through the wall, and at the start of each round they remain inside it, they must make a Fortitude save (DC 16 + your Wis modifier) or take 3d8 piercing and slashing damage and be blinded and deafened for 1 round; a successful save negates the blinding and deafening and halves the damage.

You may only have one instance of this maneuver active at one time; a second use causes the first to end. This maneuver is a supernatural ability.

ZEPHYR DASH
Desert Wind (Strike)
Level: Swordsage 6
Prerequisite: Two Desert Wind maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 full round
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Instantaneous
You rush through the air faster than the eye can follow.
As part of this maneuver, you must either charge an opponent or run. In either case, you charge or run with a fly speed equal to one and a half times your base land speed with perfect maneuverability and your movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

This maneuver is a supernatural ability.

7th Level

DUST DEVIL
Desert Wind
Level: Swordsage 7
Prerequisite: Three Desert Wind maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 full-round action
Range: Touch
Area: Cylinder (40-foot radius, 100 feet high), centered on you
Duration: 1 round per 3 initiator levels
Saving Throw: Reflex negates; see text
You whirl around in dizzying circles and the wind moves with you, drawing in anyone unfortunate enough to get too close.
For the duration of this maneuver, any creature that begins its turn within the area must make a Reflex save (DC 17 + your Wis modifier) or be pulled 20 feet closer to you, ending up in the nearest adjacent space. Flying creatures are pulled 20 feet horizontally and 30 feet vertically, taking falling damage and ending up prone if they are pulled into the ground. A successful Reflex save negates the pulling effect for creatures on the ground, and halves the distance moved for flying creatures and prevents them from falling prone if they hit the ground.

This maneuver is a supernatural ability.

WRATH OF THE DESERT SUN
Desert Wind (Boost)
Level: Swordsage 7
Prerequisite: Three Desert Wind maneuvers
Initiation Action: Immediate Action
Range: Touch
Area: 120-foot radius emanation
Duration: 1 round per 3 initiator levels
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial; see text
The slightest reflection of light in your blade grows swiftly to the full light of day, burning foes who would dare to look upon it.
For the duration of this maneuver, one weapon you wield emanates brilliant light equivalent to a daylight spell heightened to 6th level. Additionally, at the start of your turn, all enemies within the area take 1d6 fire damage and must make a Fortitude save (DC 16 + your Wis modifier) or be blinded for 1 round.

This maneuver is a supernatural ability.

8th Level

BLAZING TEMPEST
Desert Wind (Strike) [Fire]
Level: Swordsage 8
Prerequisite: Three Desert Wind maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 full-round action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Your enemies see nothing but a blazing streak as they are slashed to pieces.
As part of this maneuver, move up to your speed. Each time you exit a square adjacent to an enemy, you can first make a single melee attack against that foe, dealing an additional 5d8 fire damage with each successful hit. You cannot attack a single enemy more than once with this maneuver. For the duration of this maneuver, you gain concealment and your movement does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

This maneuver is a supernatural ability.

HEAT OF BATTLE
Desert Wind (Stance) [Air, Fire]
Level: Swordsage 8
Prerequisite: Three Desert Wind maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Area: 30-foot radius emanation
Duration: Stance
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial
With every step and motion of your blade, heat pours off you in waves to wear down your foes.
While you are in this stance, any creature that starts and ends its turn within the area must make a Fortitude save (DC 18 + your Wis modifier) or be exhausted for 1 round and take 4d8 points of nonlethal damage; a successful save reduces the exhaustion to fatigue and halves the damage.

This maneuver is a supernatural ability.

PHOENIX WING DEFENSE
Desert Wind (Counter)
Level: Swordsage 8
Prerequisite: Three Desert Wind maneuvers
Initiation Action: Immediate Action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: Instantaneous
You twist your sword through a complicated motion resembling a giant bird encircling itself with its wings, and the blast of fire hurtling towards you dissipates harmlessly.
When you would be affected by an effect with the [Air] or [Fire] descriptor, or any effect dealing fire or dessication damage, you may initiate this maneuver to negate its effect on you (any other creatures that would be harmed by the effect are not protected). If you would have been dealt damage by the effect after taking into account any immunity or resistance to the damage you may have and the originator of the effect poses a direct and immediate threat, you instead heal half the damage you would have otherwise taken, up to an amount equal to your initiator level.

This maneuver is a supernatural ability.
Enhanced Maneuvers:


Absolute Steel Stance: Increase the dodge bonus granted by this stance to +4.
Dancing Blade Form: Replace the second paragraph with "While you are in this stance, your melee reach is increased by 5 feet."
Dazing Strike: This maneuver deals an additional +3d6 damage on a successful hit, which is not reduced if the target's Fortitude save is successful.
Disarming Strike: This maneuver deals an additional +3d6 damage on a successful hit, which is not reduced if the target's Will save is successful.
Punishing Stance: Replace the first sentence in the second paragraph with "While you are in this stance, you deal an extra 1d6 points of damage plus 1d6 points per 6 initiator levels with all melee attacks."
Supreme Blade Parry: Increase the damage reduction granted by this stance to 10/ó.
Rewritten Maneuvers

FINISHING MOVE
Iron Heart (Boost)
Level: Warblade 7
Prerequisite: Three Iron Heart maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 swift action
Range: Personal
Target: You

The first melee attack you make on your turn after initiating this maneuver deals additional damage based on your target's current hit points compared to its full normal hit points:
Full: +4d6
Between half and full: +6d6
Less than half: +14d6
This maneuver may apply to an attack made with another maneuver, but only the higher bonus damage applies. (For instance, if initiated before Dazing Strike against an enemy at half hit points, the dazing effect would be resolved normally but you would only deal +6d6 damage rather than +6d6 plus +3d6 damage.)
We will be using Endarire's Revised Stone Dragon v1.9 (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1b4T_SzUloCtGUdBnUwy6tpoKtZf43OZ5BFef5p44DO4/edit?hl=en#) with the following additional modifications:

As for the tweaks to RSD for this game:
Mountain Skin Stance gives a flat +3 natural armor bonus to AC again. You'd only be getting a +3 or so over an amulet of natural armor at this level anyway.
The DR and energy resistance from Stoneheart Stance, Adamantine Bones, and other maneuvers is halved. Too much DR or resistance in a game primarily involving classed NPCs obsoletes too many fighting styles.
Giant's Stance stops at +2 size categories. You don't need more than that against mostly Medium and Large humanoids.
Mudslide and other maneuvers that can apply to ranged attacks work with melee attacks only. Stone Dragon is not a ranged and mobile discipline.
Exhausting Strike allows a Fort save to reduce exhausted to fatigued.
Stone Dragon's Wisdom allows you to reroll 1 normal attack roll, not all of them until your next turn; the other rerolls last the normal duration. Rerolling a full attack is a very powerful ability.
Bonecrusher and other maneuvers that deal +Xd6 extra damage do not multiply it on a crit. There's no reason to break the "multiply constants, don't multiply dice" rule here.
Those tweaks don't change the feel of RSD but they do bring the power level more into line for the altered baseline assumptions of this particular game.

I reserve the right to make further alterations during the game if necessary.
Einhander 2.0 [Fighter, Tactical]
Prerequisites: BAB +6, Evasive Reflexes
Benefit: As long as you fight with a single light or one-handed weapon in one hand and no weapon or shield in your other hand, you gain a +2 insight bonus to attack rolls, rolls made to initiate or resist combat maneuvers, and to your armor class, as well as an insight bonus to melee damage rolls equal to your Int bonus. Additionally, you have access to the following three tactical maneuvers:

En Garde: Each time you are hit by a melee attack (including touch attacks) you may spend one attack of opportunity to add 1/2 your base attack bonus to your AC against that attack; if your AC after doing this is higher than the attack roll, the attack misses.

Lunge and Retreat: You threaten the area 5 feet beyond your normal reach. However, every time you attack a target within this increased reach, you must take a 5-foot step toward your target to put them within your normal reach.

I Am Not Left-Handed: You may feint as a move action rather than a standard action. Once per encounter, you may feint as a swift action by switching your weapon to your off hand; if the feint is successful, your target is flat-footed until the start of your next turn.

My Master of One (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?134165-Master-of-One-ToB-PrC), since it fits this campaign's theme perfectly.


Setting Information
In general, this campaign assumes that all of the people, places, gods, organizations, and the like mentioned in Tome of Battle definitely exist exactly as presented (including PrC Adaptation sections, sample characters, etc.), and no other setting information from other settings (or even the core books) is guaranteed to exist. Corellon Larethian, Erythnul, and Wee Jas are mentioned in class descriptions and so are worshiped, and other gods may not exist; red and black dragons are mentioned in the legacy weapon descriptions and so terrorize the common folk, and other dragon varieties may not exist; and so on.

Certain things may be expounded upon or added to the setting--giving names to groups or mountain ranges that are referenced but not named, for instance--and things may be added to the world as part of character backgrounds or in the course of play, but in general this game is set in "the implicit background setting of Tome of Battle" rather than in any established campaign setting. Setting information from Tome of Battle will be summarized here as it becomes relevant.

Nations and LandmarksNothing here yet.

Factions and OrganizationsNothing here yet.


The Successor Temples
The successor Temples are the two Temples formed from the remnants of the Temple of the Nine Swords after the Fall; the party's Temple is the Temple of the Four Seasons, and their rival is the Temple of the Unconquered Sun. They are the most populous, best-equipped, most accepting of new students, and most famous among practitioner of the Sublime Way (and likely to be known even to some that do not follow the Way), and their overriding missions are to destroy their rival Temple and to collect all of the lost Nine Swords and become the one and only inheritor of the True Temple.


Based on a plateau in the Sunspire Mountains, the Temple of the Four Seasons is one of the two successors to the Temple of the Nine Swords. Its guiding philosophies are unity, enlightenment, and knowledge, and it uses the metaphor of the cyclical nature of time and the world to teach its four disciplines. Its grandmasters believe that sharing knowledge, working together as one, and equality are paramount, so the three grandmasters stand on even footing, overseeing the adepts, initiates, and novices below them who rise in the hierarchy based on merit and dedication to the Temple's principles.

Historical

All adepts are equal in the Temple's eyes, so the structure of the Temple hierarchy resembles a stepped pyramid more than a line, and this Temple does not differentiate between Adepts and Senior adepts in its ranking system. All students are expected to help out where needed and not hide any insight from the others, so most of its students either focus on a single discipline, working with others who do the same, or learn all disciplines equally, discovering how they can work together and strengthen one another. As well, Adepts of the Four Seasons value the purity of their art--they will train the mind and the soul, occasionally, when it meshes with their martial skills, but most dedicate themselves to the Sublime Way above all. They proudly claim that, together with their comrades, they can defeat any number of Unconquered Sun adepts on the battlefield.

Given the Temple's emphasis on the symbolism of the seasons, the disciplines are each associated with one season apiece. Stone Dragon is associated with the resilience of fertile spring soil, Desert Wind is associated with the heat of the blazing summer sun, Iron Heart is associated with the motion of falling autumn leaves, and Diamond Mind is associated with the precision of clear winter ice, and the Temple's Master positions are named accordingly.

Symbol: A white disc divided into quadrants containing stylized depictions of a red gust of wind, a yellow leaf, a blue gem, and a green mountain
Location: Western Sunspire Mountains
Disciplines Taught: Desert Wind, Diamond Mind, Iron Heart, Stone Dragon
Entry Requirements: Must either know four maneuvers of one of the Temple's disciplines OR know one maneuver each of all four of the Temple's disciplines, must have at least 2/3 of their levels in an initiating class
Leader Ranks: 3 Grandmasters (Lore, Unity, Enlightenment), 4 Masters (Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter).
Master Requirements: Must practice one of the Temple's disciplines almost exclusively, must perform a great service for the Temple (either one notable accomplishment or consistent contributions) and be unanimously approved for advancement by the Grandmasters
Estimated Size: 507 (7 Leaders, 200 Adepts, 300 novices).

Current

After the Masters of Spring, Summer, Autumn, and Winter journeyed to some of the major Temples and to make alliances and recruit adepts, the Temple has been somewhat changed. As part of the process of integrating other Temples' adepts and disciplines, the Temple of the Four Seasons has begun using the Senior Adept title to allow more differentiation among foreign Adepts, and has added more Master positions of its own to accommodate the additional disciplines. The original four seasonal Master positions are raised to Grandmaster positions, and each season is split into two, so there is a Master of the solstice or equinox at the turning of the seasons to represent one of the Temple's four original disciplines and a Master of the middle of the seasons to represent the four new disciplines: Mid Spring for Devoted Spirit to represent the vitality of spring foliage, High Summer for Tiger Claw to represent the fury of summer storms, Mid Autumn for Setting Sun to represent the peace of autumn harvest, and Deep Winter for Shadow Hand to represent the gloom of winter nights.

Disciplines Taught: Primary: Desert Wind, Diamond Mind, Iron Heart, Stone Dragon; Limited: Devoted Spirit, Setting Sun, Tiger Claw
Entry Requirements: Must meet the original Temple entry requirements or be transferred in from another Temple by recommendation of at least one Grandmaster
Leader Ranks: 7 Grandmasters (Lore, Unity, Enlightenment, Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter), 8 Masters (Spring Equinox, Mid Spring, Summer Solstice, High Summer, Autumn Equinox, Winter Solstice, Deep Winter).
Master Requirements: Unchanged
Estimated Size: 620 (15 Leaders, 165 Adepts, 44 Crimson Cloth Adepts, 25 Talon Enclave Adepts, 11 Four Winds Adepts, 5 Sanctum Adepts, 285 novices, 55 Crimson Cloth novices, 15 Sanctum novices). They are currently short 35 Adepts and 15 novices who have been sent to train at the Talon Enclave and Sanctum of the Opened Eye, but have more than made up for that shortage with Adepts and novices from their allied Temples.

The hidden Temple of the Unconquered Sun is one of the two successors to the Temple of the Nine Swords. Its guiding philosophies are synergy, personal insight, and innovation, and it uses the metaphor of the cyclical nature of the day and the celestial bodies to teach its four disciplines. Its grandmasters believe that discovering one's personal style, combining techniques in new and interesting ways, and supremacy and skill are paramount, so the three grandmasters are ranked one after another, with the adepts, initiates, and novices falling in a strict hierarchy below them wherein everyone knows their place.

Unconquered Sun adepts are allowed to take on personal apprentices, so the structure of the Temple hierarchy resembles a staggered tree more than a line. All students are expected to seek the strongest and most effective techniques, so most of its students focus on either two or three disciplines, believing that one is too limiting and that four are too dilute. As well, Adepts of the Unconquered Sun value the potential of their art to enhance any other skills they might have--they will dabble in other paths besides the Sublime Way if it will make them more powerful or give them greater insight into the Way's workings. They proudly claim that, one on one, any Unconquered Sun adept can defeat a Four Seasons adept of similar skill.

The Master ranks of the Unconquered Sun are not so straightforwardly symbol-laden as those of the Four Seasons, as they deal in pairs or trios of disciplines and so blend their methodologies and philosophies. The reasons for a given group of disciplines to be associated with a given Master title are currently unknown by members of other Temples.

Symbol: A black disc with a twelve-pointed burnished golden sunburst in the center and tiny spheres at each point, gradually changing color from brilliant yellow at the top to deep violet at the bottom point and back
Location: Eastern Sunspire Mountains (Hidden)
Disciplines Taught: Devoted Spirit, Setting Sun, Shadow Hand, Tiger Claw
Entry Requirements: Must meet one of the following: know maneuvers of three of the Temple's disciplines, know maneuvers of two of the Temple's disciplines and practice some form of magic (spellcasting, psionics, shadowcasting, and so on), know maneuvers of one of the Temple's disciplines and practice two forms of magic
Leader Ranks: 3 Grandmasters (Blades, Strife, Void), 7 Masters (Dawn, Tierce, Noon, Vespers, Dusk, Night, Vigils)
Master Requirements: Must practice all of their disciplines and forms of magic with relatively equal skill, must defeat the Master of the desired rank in single combat and either kill or cripple them
Estimated Size: 560 (10 Leaders, 250 Adepts, 300 novices). It is currently unknown whether the Temple has gained allies from other Temples in the way the Temple of the Four Seasons has.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-02-14, 01:37 PM
Other Temples
Known allied and enemy Temples are described here.
The major Temples are those Temples that were founded before the Temple of the Nine Swords and were well-enough established to have been visited by Reshar in his travels and to have their members actively recruited by the Temple of the Nine Swords after its founding. All are smaller, more remote, and more selective both of their disciplines and their prospective students, because any Temples that agreed with the Nine Swords' philosophy of uniting the disciplines and accepting all students simply disbanded and merged with the True Temple, so those that remain are opposed to that mission in ways large and small and usually are only known to those Sublime Way practitioners who live near them.

The Order of the Crimson Cloth
The Order of the Crimson Cloth is not so much a single-discipline Temple as it is the entire martial tradition of the Wind Dervishes culture. Its Masters and Adepts protect the Wind Dervishes and any honest travelers in the Great Golden Desert. They solely practice Desert Wind, as the discipline was invented by the Wind Dervishes and is best suited to their harsh desert lifestyle, but most of their Masters learn various sorts of magic also associated with fire, wind, and the desert both to shore up the blind spots of their discipline (which they will never admit exist to outsiders, of course) and to help advance the teachings of the discipline itself.

The name of the Order derives from their indications of rank: Recently-initiated novices receive crimson ribbons to tie around their customary white and beige garments, with the patterns denoting tribe of origin and the identity of the novice's master. As they pass increasingly more difficult tests, they gain larger and more elaborate garments with more crimson on the torso, signifying degrees of Adept skill. Masters have several ranks, starting at Master of the Flame with crimson leggings, then Master of the Stars with crimson sleeves, then Master of the Sands a crimson cloak, and finally the rarely-achieved Master of the Winds with a crimson turban and face covering; for each rank of Master there must be at least two of the next lower rank, so that only the finest and most worthy warriors achieve the next Mastery. Anyone of the desert who is found to have worn such garments without having earned them is swiftly sentenced to death for impersonating such distinguished warriors.

Symbol: A beige background with a light blue disc in the center surrounded by graceful crimson writing in the Andrama tongue stating "Honor to those who serve"
Location: Great Golden Desert
Disciplines Taught: Desert Wind
Entry Requirements: Must live with the Wind Dervishes for at least one year, must know at least one maneuver and one stance of Desert Wind
Nonstandard Ranks: Multiple Master ranks: Winds, Sands, Stars, and Flame (Grandmaster equivalent, 16th level, 15th level, and 14th level, respectively)
Leaders: 23 Masters (4 Sands, 8 Stars, 11 Flame)
Master Requirements: Must defeat the two Adepts or Masters of their current rank in a test in the Hall of Heroes below the desert sands near the Oasis of the Winds
Estimated Size: Total 923 (23 Leaders, 400 Adepts, 500 novices); Current 819 (19 Leaders, 356 Adepts, 445 novices). They are currently short 2 Masters of the Sands, 2 Masters of the Stars, 44 Adepts, and 55 novices, as they are training at the Temple of the Four Seasons.

The Talon Enclave
The Talon Enclave is a fortress in the southern Ironwoods where masters of Iron Heart and Tiger Claw teach their disciplines in solitude. Created to preserve the purity of their disciplines, this Temple is home to a constant and fierce rivalry between the two disciplines. There are three factions of pure martial adepts in the Enclave: Two factions practice one discipline each to keep their skills honed and their disciplines strong, and one blends the two in the hopes of advancing the disciplines.

To keep the peace between the three factions, each is allowed exactly one Master at a given time, who must meet a higher bar for rank advancement than most Masters. To aid in training, there are also several Junior Masters; the Iron Heart and Tiger Claw factions must maintain a strict balance of Junior Masters as well, while the Iron Claw faction is not similarly restricted. None of the Masters have special titles other than their faction designation, as further differentiation would only lead to further conflict.

Symbol: Three vaguely-crescent-shaped arranged in a circle, points out: one pair of nested crescents in silver that suggest a heart, one pair of crossed crescents in gold that suggest a three-fingered claw, and one pair of crescents joined at the center in copper that suggest a shield
Location: Ironwood Forest
Disciplines Taught: Iron Heart, Tiger Claw
Entry Requirements: Must know at least two maneuvers and two stances (by desired faction: both Iron Heart, both Tiger Claw, or one of each).
Nonstandard Ranks: Master (14th-16th level), Junior Master (11th-13th level)
Leaders: 10 Masters (1 Iron Heart Master, 1 Tiger Claw Master, 1 Iron Claw Master, 3 Iron Heart Junior Masters, 3 Tiger Claw Junior Masters, 1 Iron Claw Junior Master).
Estimated Size: Total 210 (10 Leaders, 150 Adepts, 50 Novices); Current 210 (5 Leaders, 130 Adepts, 25 Four Seasons Adepts, 50 novices). They are currently short 5 Junior Masters (2 Iron Heart, 2 Tiger Claw, 1 Iron Claw) and 20 Adepts, as they are training at the Temple of the Four Seasons, but 25 Four Seasons adepts have joined the Enclave for training in exchange.

The Temple of the Four Winds
The Temple of the Four Winds is a quiet monastery hidden in the mountains, away from the hustle and bustle of the wider world. Students here contemplate themselves and the universe as much as they practice their martial disciplines, believing that martial prowess must be used only defensively and that mental and physical perfection must be achieved together. Adepts and Masters are free to pursue any other pursuits they find helpful, so many of them study the path of more specialized warriors such as monks and ninjas or study the mysteries of the more pacifistic schools of magic (particularly Divination and Illusion, which are very helpful in keeping the Temple hidden from prying eyes).

There are no rival factions among the Four Winds as there are in the Talon Enclave, but their Masters and Adepts do fall into several different groups for easier training and determination of skill. Those who solely study Devoted Spirit identify with the west wind and are taught by a Master Vulturnus, those who solely study Setting Sun identify with the east wind and are taught by a Master Zephyrus, those who study both identify with the north wind and are taught by a Master Boreas, and those who study neither identify with the south wind and are taught by a Master Auster. The groups are currently roughly equal in number, but this is neither a requirement for a preference.

Symbol: A stylized four-lined curlicue (like two S's crossed at the center) in light blue on an orange background, with sigils in the Auran, Celestial, Draconic, and Elven tongues nestled in the open spaces in the curves
Location: Silver Peaks (Hidden)
Disciplines Taught: Devoted Spirit, Settng Sun
Entry Requirements: Must know at least one maneuver of any discipline, must be trained in Diplomacy and Sense Motive, must be approved by three of the four Masters.
Leader Ranks: 4 Masters (Boreas, Zephyrus, Auster, Vulturnus).
Estimated Size: Total 89 (4 Leaders, 30 Adepts, 55 Novices). They are currently short 11 Adepts, as they are training at the Temple of the Four Seasons.

The Sanctum of the Opened Eye
The Sanctum of the Opened Eye is a Temple situated on the Crystal Clacier near the South Pole. In their remote sanctuary, carved out of a glacier, they practice their mentally-demanding discipline free of any worldly distractions. Many of their number pair their physical training with the mental training of psionics, as they require complementary skills and the mental arts help maintain and protect the Sanctum.

The Adepts and Masters of the Sanctum are divided into five groups, generally cooperative like those of the Four Winds and not rivals like those of the Talon Enclave. Named according to the gemstone theme of Diamond Mind, the Sapphire group practices Diamond Mind exclusively with no distraction from other pursuits, while the Amethyst group exclusively trains their psionic talents and the Emerald group exclusively trains martial skills unrelated to the Sublime Way, and respectively wear blue, violet, and green robes to indicate their affiliation, with darker shades for novices and lighter for Adepts; the latter two are members of the Sanctum because they can benefit from the discipline and structure of Sanctum life and the Sapphire group can benefit from testing their skills against those who do not practice the Sublime Way. The Topaz group practices Diamond Mind in conjunction with either mental talent or mundane bladework and wear indigo or turquoise robes, while the Crystal group practices all three pursuits and wear white robes. The Sanctum Masters, one for each group, wear gem-studded silver cloaks over their colored robes, while the Grandmaster is clad in all silver to show no favoritism to any group.

Symbol: A circle circumscribing a downward-pointing triangle containing a staring lidless eye, with intricate lines and whorls in the gaps between the triangle and circle and three small solid circles at the points of the triangle; the circles are emerald green, sapphire blue, and amethyst violet, and the lines of the triangle and circle between them shade from one color to the other, while the eye is pure white
Location: Crystal Glacier
Disciplines Taught: Diamond Mind
Entry Requirements: One of the following: pure initiator (Sapphire), pure psionicist (Amethyst), no psionics or initiating (Emerald), even mix of two (Topaz), or even mix of three (Crystal)
Leaders: 1 Grandmaster (Diamond), 5 Masters (Amethyst, Crystal, Emerald, Sapphire, Topaz)
Master Requirements: Must defeat the most skilled adept of each other group in single combat, must at least dabble in all three of the Sanctum's foci (if not already of the Crystal group), must be unanimously approved by the entire group and the existing Masters and Grandmaster
Estimated Size: Total 139 (6 Leaders, 54 Adepts, 79 novices); Current 139 (6 Leaders, 49 Adepts, 5 Four Seasons Adepts, 64 novices, 15 Four Seasons novices). They are currently short 5 Adepts and 15 novices, as they are training at the Temple of the Four Seasons, but an equal number of Four Seasons Adepts and novices have joined the Sanctum for training in exchange.

The Mouth of the World
Little is known of the Temple called the Mouth of the World, not even the origin of its name. All that is certain about it is the discipline it teaches, the fact that it is entirely underground, and the fact that it is somewhere west of the Ironwood Forest.

Symbol: Unknown
Location: Hidden
Disciplines Taught: Shadow Hand
Entry Requirements: Unknown
Leaders: Unknown
Master Requirements: Unknown
Estimated Size: Unknown
The minor Temples are those Temples that sprung up after the founding of the Temple of the Nine Swords because their founders wished to remain separate for whatever reason. They are generally quite small (just a step above two or three Masters and a handful of adepts, really) and extremely selective of their students and/or extremely focused in their goals. Sublime Way practitioners are likely to only have heard of the founder of the Temple and have heard one or two things about them, as they are viewed by the successor Temples as being largely irrelevant to their missions and by the major Temples as being late-coming upstarts who are merely mimicking the traditions of real Temples.

The Eighty Empresses

The Eighty Empresses are an order of female swordsages formed by the first empress of the Incarnadine Empire, Opala I. They are so named because they were originally formed as an order of bodyguards and body doubles for the Empress; the "Eighty" part comes from the fact that there were eighty noble families at the time of the Empire's founding, and each was required to send a daughter for training (and as a hostage). Today, however, they are merely one of several martial orders in service to the Empress and will accept any warrior who meets their stringent requirements.

The Eighty Empresses' first and only loyalty is expected to be to the Empress herself, so none of them bear Master (or perhaps in this case Mistress) titles, they are merely termed Adepts of different colors to emphasize that they are neither

Symbol: Five ribbons (one fuchsia, one pink, one red, one orange, and one gold) folded in an elaborate pattern to resemble a crown
Location: The Incarnadine Palace at the heart of the Empire
Disciplines Taught: Desert Wind, Diamond Mind, Setting Sun, Shadow Hand, Tiger Claw
Entry Requirements: Must be a female of noble blood born in the Incarnadine Empire; must know two maneuvers each of Desert Wind, Setting Sun, and Shadow Hand and one stance of either Diamond Mind or Tiger Claw; must pass the Trial of the 1,080 Ribbons, must swear undying loyalty to the current Empress
Nonstandard Ranks: Amber Adept (9th-10th level), Bronze Adept (7th-8th level), Scarlet Adept (5th-6th level), Coral Adept (3rd-4th level), Lavender Adept (1st-2nd level)
Leaders: None
Master Requirements: N/A
Estimated Size: Total 80; the Empresses' number is fixed at 80, but the exact numbers of each rank vary.

The Harad Devin Temple

"Harad Devin" means "suffering and power" in an old and obscure tongue, and the Temple earns its title, for prospective students must endure deprivation, harsh weather, monster attacks, and more just for the chance to be chosen as a novice, and the harsh treatment continues throughout their training. Once accepted, they are kept in the Temple with no more rights than slaves until they reach the rank of Senior Adept, at which point they are permitted to leave only if they swear a magically-binding vow of silence regarding the Temple's training and secrets. All such adepts are also branded or tattooed with portions of the Temple's history and that of the surrounding regions, most on their inner forearms but some on their chest or back if they've been granted a particularly detailed section; these brands and tattoos hold magical power, both to enforce their vows and to empower the adepts somehow.

There are but three Grandmaster of the Temple, and no students are permitted to rise to the rank of Master; either a student is fortunate enough to be chosen to replace one of the Grandmasters when he or she is prepared to retire (or when he or she is prepared to challenge them and show great potential), in which case they are then privately and intensively trained up to the rank of Grandmaster, or they are sent out into the world when they reach the limits of the Senior Adept rank.

Symbol: A snarling beast of indeterminate kind with dark green fur, white horns and fangs, and yellow eyes
Location: Southern Sunspire Mountains, near the Deluge Jungle
Disciplines Taught: Diamond Mind, Setting Sun, Shadow Hand, Stone Dragon, Tiger Claw
Entry Requirements: Must wait outside the Ivory and Horn Gates with no shelter and survive all threats and monsters for at least one season; other criteria, if any, are unknown
Leaders: 3 Grandmaster (titles unknown)
Grandmaster Requirements: unknown
Estimated Size: At least 13 (3 Grandmasters, 10+ Adepts)

The Murient Temple

The unimaginatively-named Murient Temple (it is simply a Temple in the Murient Hills) has an unimaginative mission: teach the basics of the Sublime Way to those not willing or able to be accepted by other Temples. Its Masters place little emphasis on the philosophy behind their disciplines, as the mercenaries, bodyguards, soldiers, and similar students with a martial background generally aren't interested in such things. In exchange, though, they almost exclusively teach defensive tactics, focusing on the resilient Stone Dragon, the reactive Setting Sun, and deflective Iron Heart disciplines.

The Masters of the Temple are named after their disciplines, no fancy titles for them. The Adepts are given military ranks and treated as soldiers, the better to instill the discipline that they would otherwise generate themselves if they truly internalized the principles of the Sublime Way

Symbol: A golden sunrise on a silver shield in front of a copper tower
Location: Murient Hills
Disciplines Taught: Primary: Stone Dragon; Limited: Iron Heart, Setting Sun
Entry Requirements: Must not know any maneuvers or stances
Leaders: 4 Masters (2 Stone Dragon Masters, 1 Iron Heart Master, 1 Setting Sun Master)
Master Requirements: Must know four maneuvers of their own discipline and two each of the Temple's other two disciplines
Estimated Size: Highly variable. Students rarely stay for more than a few months to pick up the basics, so at any given time the Temple's population can number anywhere from 5 to 30, but usually in the low teens.

The Temple of the Lapis Dagger

Nearly four decades ago, a hobgoblin Iron Heart Master by the name of Allek Thrazt was cast out of Ur-Melkhamaar for refusing to place his empire before himself, and around the same time a Shadow Sun Ninja was cast out of her monastery for failing to rein in her more sadistic impulses. After wandering the world for a time, the two met and decided to found a Temple that would teach their chosen disciplines but with an emphasis on practicing the Sublime Way for one's own benefit and satisfaction and not for any greater cause or moral purpose. The Temple is built over a vein of lapis lazuli, and to reach the rank of adept a student must descend into the volcanic crevice, mine the lapis, and craft it into a flawless dagger, surviving and completing his or her task without any outside help, and then travel from the Temple and slay a target of his or her choice using only the dagger and his or her martial training; this rite gives the Temple its name.

Masters of other Temples have considered leading an expedition to destroy this Temple, as many of its students take the "put yourself first and serve no higher cause" credo to heart end up as assassins or worse, but most of its students interpret this as "become the best version of yourself without obligation to others" and end up as knights, monster-slayers, and the like, so the Temple has been spared...so far.

Symbol: A solid bright blue outline of a dagger facing point-down flanked by four yellow eyes, suggesting a dagger being driven into a creature's head
Location: Southern Sunspire Mountains (Hidden)
Disciplines Taught: Diamond Mind, Iron Heart, Shadow Hand
Entry Requirements: Must forswear all previous allegiances (empires, gods, other Temples, and so forth)
Leaders: 2 Masters (titles unknown)
Master Requirements: Unknown
Estimated Size: Rough total 16 (2 Masters, 14 Adepts) permanent members, with an additional 0-20 temporary members at any given time.

The Thousand-Petal Orchid Temple

After the Temple of the Nine Swords was founded, most Temples who did not merge with that Temple chose to stay apart because they did not approve of mixing so many disciplines; a small group of practitioners called the Ninefold Sages, in contrast, disapproved of focusing on so few. They felt that while the Temple encouraged blending disciplines and learning from one another, the emphasis on the Nine Swords, the practice of naming Masters based on their disciplines, and so on showed that the Temple was not truly committed to following all nine paths of the Sublime Way, and so they founded the Thousand-Petal Orchid Temple to teach their own Ninefold Path philosophy, that all nine paths are part of one unified whole and failing to practice some of them showed a lack of mastery.

The "Temple" is barely more than a shrine, probably able to fit in a few rooms of a rich merchant's manor. This is because the Thousand-Petal Orchid Temple is not intended to house students long-term in a traditional master/student arrangement; it is a place for those who walk the Ninefold Path to meet and spar and bring new students, and that is all, and once inducted into the Temple no Adept or Master holds authority over any other. Most members of the Temple are Masters of Nine pursuing perfection of their craft, and in fact the Ninefold Sages were the very first Masters of Nine, but some are content merely to dabble in all paths just enough to achieve enlightenment.

Symbol: An orchid with nine petals
Location: The Silver Peaks (Hidden)
Disciplines Taught: All
Entry Requirements: Must know at least one maneuver from each of the nine disciplines
Leaders: None
Master Requirements: N/A
Estimated Size: At most 3-6 at any given time.

The Groves of the Eternal Blades

The ancient warrior order of the elves known as the Eternal Blades are a dying breed, but some few of their Temples still live on. These Temples, called _groves_, welcome any warriors of elven blood in the hopes of growing their numbers and restoring their order, even those who show no sign of being chosen by blade guides any time soon; any elf interested in training with the Eternal Blades is more likely to be chosen for that reason alone, and any elven heroes whom the Eternal Blades can claim to have trained can help improve their reputation and hopefully bring their order back to prominence.

Each of the four remaining groves--Blade Deep Grove in the southeast of the Eternal Forest, Ten Trees Stand in the northeast, the Eternal Redoubt in the northwest, and Hidden Grove in the southwest--has its own philosophy on how to accomplish the resurrection of their order--go questing to slay monsters, or stay in elven lands for defense; build up a reputation as unapproachable larger-than-life heroes, or befriend the common folk. Each also teaches a different set of disciplines to their members, threading their own philosophies together with those of the disciplines for maximum effect.

Symbol: A silver longsword oriented point-down with a winged globe of white light behind it, all on a solid forest-green background
Location: The Eternal Forest; formerly Lorugen Forest and Silverwood Forest
Disciplines Taught: Devoted Spirit and Diamond Mind, plus Iron Heart (Blade Deep Grove), White Raven (Eternal Redoubt), Iron Heart and White Raven (Ten Trees Stand), or no others (Hidden Grove)
Entry Requirements: Must be an elf or have noticeable elven heritage, must only have levels in a full BAB class, must find the grove with no outside assistance
Leader Ranks: 1 Grandmaster (Eternity), 4 Masters (Courage, Insight, Lore, Wisdom)
Master Requirements: Must be an Eternal Blade, must perform a great deed to bring acclaim to the Eternal Blades
Estimated Size: 12-17 (5 Leaders, 7-12 Adepts).

The Martial Adepts
Known members of allied and enemy Temples are described here.

Each title denotes a certain level of skill:
Grandmaster: 17th-20th level
Master: 13th-16th level
Senior Adept: 9th-12th level
Adept: 5th-8th level
Novice: 1st-4th level
Different temples may have different divisions within these schemes or variations on the title of Master, but these skill levels are universal; if you speak of "a Master" in general, as opposed to "the Master of [Title]," those skilled in martial lore will know the rough skill level of the person of whom you speak.
Grandmaster of Lore: Tsikul al-Surt
The Grandmaster of Lore is an asherati from the Great Golden Desert. In combat, she is an excellent and versatile duelist, and is rumored to be able to identify an enemy's strengths, weaknesses, and fighting style with a single glimpse. In the Temple, she is the keeper of the archives: she records students' progress, preserves ancient tomes of martial maneuvers, writes treatises on training methods, trains the initiates in history and other non-martial pursuits, and the like. It is she who studied the three Swords in the Temple's possession over the past two years, and her insights into their secrets have helped all of the Temple's students achieve greater mastery of their arts.

[OOC: Tsikul is 20th level, a mix of warblade, bard, factotum, chameleon, urban savant, and master of nine.]

Grandmaster of Unity: Joseph Sapier
The Grandmaster of Unity is an illumian from the Isle of Dawn. In combat, he is an excellent tactician and commander, and his inspiring presence and divine blessings often keeps the Temple's initiates fighting long after they otherwise would have fallen. In the Temple, he is the spiritual and moral center of all the adepts: he leads the Temple in prayers each morning and night, organizes the day-to-day activities of the adepts, provides counseling and healing for adepts after exercises and battles, and the like. It is he who provides the Temple with everything it needs--food, water, raw materials, and more--and ensures that its adepts work together as a cohesive whole.

[OOC: Joseph is 20th level, a mix of crusader, shugenja, heartfire fanner, cloistered cleric, and ruby knight vindicator.]

Grandmaster of Enlightenment: Docen Sovornost
The Grandmaster of Enlightenment is a raptoran native to the Sunspire Mountains. He is one of the legendary Jade Phoenix Magi, mixiing magic, stealth, and martial skill in combat to great effect and bending the battlefield to his will to ensure victory. In the Temple, he is the most practical of the Temple leadership: he seeks out and inducts new novices, oversees the patrol and warding of the surrounding terrain, enchants adepts' weaponry, and the like. It is he who divines for the locations of the lost Swords and scries on the Temple of the Unconquered Sun to keep tabs on their activities, and his efforts have led to great victories over their adversaries in both seeking out ancient Temple relics and defeating their enemies on the battlefield.

[OOC: Docen is 20th level, a mix of swordsage, wu jen, abjurant champion, and Jade Phoenix Mage.]

Senior Adept: Hadira al-Wazra
Senior Adept al-Wazra is a true believer, having been brought to the Temple of the Four Seasons as a novice when it was founded. She is very disciplined and serious about her training (perhaps too much so, at times), and is willing to give her life for the Temple if needed. She is trained in Diamond Mind (dabbling somewhat in Desert Wind), has a very mobile fighting style, and favors the spear.

[OOC: al-Wazra was 11th level at the start of the campaign, a mix of swordsage and monk. She is now 13th level.]
Grandmaster of Blades: Dylan Mesker
The Grandmaster of Blades of the Temple of the Unconquered Sun used to be a close friend and fellow divine warrior of Grandmaster Sapier, until the fall of the Temple of the Nine Swords saw them go their separate ways. His duties and strengths are unknown (he wards himself well against divination, and the only reason his identity is known is that he sent Grandmaster Sapier a letter essentially telling him that Mesker was a grandmaster and that Sapier should either join him or expect no mercy on the battlefield), except that he is able to hold his own against seven rising Masters at once with little difficulty.

[OOC: Dylan is 20th level, a mix of [REDACTED]. :smallwink:]

Master of Noon (Former): Name Unknown
The first Master of Noon encountered by the party was a shifter swordsage who wielded Tiger Fang and focused on Tiger Claw; it is rare that an adept focusing on a single discipline would merit such a reward, as Unconquered Sun adepts generally disdain single disciplines as being too limited, but the Master of Noon defeated all comers and was accepted by Tiger Fang when he dared to lay claim to it. He was defeated by the Masters of the Four Seasons and Tiger Claw was retrieved by their Temple.

[OOC: The Master of Noon was 14th level, a mix of sorcerer, swordsage, anima mage, and bloodclaw master.]

Master of Noon (Current): Eight of Nine
The new Master of Noon is more typical as far as Unconquered Sun Masters go and focuses on two disciplines, Setting Sun and Tiger Claw. Where Four's other brethren thus far encountered have not changed much, physically, since their days at the Temple of Nine beyond adding superficial adornments to their outer shells, Eight of Nine has undergone extensive modifications by artificers unknown, adding body parts and changing the entire composition of his form. What magic or special training this grants him--as all Masters of the Unconquered Sun study three paths, so he must have some training beyond his two disciplines--is unknown, but whatever it is has turned him from a sparring partner into an unstoppable killing machine.

[OOC: Eight of Nine is 16th level, a mix of fighter, warblade, barbarian, swordsage, bloodclaw master, and frenzied berserker.]

Master of Dusk (Former): Sumrak
The former Master of Dusk was a gnome who wielded Umbral Awn who focused on Shadow Hand and Tiger Claw. Ever confident, to the point of arrogance, Sumrak--whether this was his first name, surname, or only name is unknown--was not above threatening innocents to get his way. He revealed himself to be a member of the Shadow Sun Ninjas in a battle at the Sanctum of the Opened Eye, so it is likely that he trained as monk as his third path. He was defeated by the Masters of the Four Seasons and Umbral Awn was retrieved by their Temple.

[OOC: Sumrak was 15th level, a mix of monk, swordsage, cleric, and Shadow Sun Ninja.]

Master of Vigils (Former): Antonio Scotari
The Master of Vigils has a long history with Koan, as they were friends and rivals in the days of the Temple of Nine. He studied several disciplines in his youth including both Devoted Spirit and Shadow hand, and since joining the Temple of the Unconquered Sun he has focused solely on those two disciplines. He always bragged about a vague otherworldy heritage with little evidence, possible just to impress his friends, but when he was encountered at the Sanctum of the Opened Eye he appeared to have physically changed and gained a variety of magical powers, so it appears he may not have been lying; the source of his powers and the truth his heritage, however, remain to be seen.

He has now joined the Temple of the Four Seasons, temporarily losing his Master title until he can prove his trustworthiness and be elevated to that rank once more.

[OOC: Scotari is 16th level, a mix of crusader, swordsage, monk, warlock, and paladin of freedom.]

Adept: Dorvyn
Adept Dorvyn joined the Temple of the Nine Swords mere months before its destruction, fled the attack as soon as he possibly could, and finally worked up the courage to join the Temple of the Unconquered Sun when he was sure the Shadow Tiger Horde wasn't planning to destroy the successor Temples. In short, he is a coward, preferring to knife someone in the back rather than face them from the front, but even cowards can be deadly when backed into a corner. He is trained in Tiger Claw and Shadow Hand, and favors dual knives.

[OOC: Dorvyn was 7th level when the party first met him, a mix of swordsage and rogue. He is now 9th level.]
Master of the Sands: Fiyaat
Master Fiyaat is the Order's most senior Master, having held his post the longest and trained the most warriors, and is the first elf to reach such a high rank in the Order. He is a Jade Phoenix Mage, and though he has never left the Great Golden Desert in his current lifetime, he was good friends with Grandmaster Tsikul in a prior life. He engages enemy with fire and air magic at a distance and with Desert Wind maneuvers up close, and is a cool and collected tactician.

[OOC: Fiyaat was 13th level when the party first met him, a mix of swordsage, warmage, and Jade Phoenix Mage. He is now 14th level.]

Master of the Sands: Jasim
Master Jasim, an orphaned xeph raised by the Wind Dervishes, is the youngest Master of the Sands, having been taken in for training at a younger age than normal due to her sudden manifestation of pyrokinetic abilities that the Order thought could be best controlled with the mental discipline that comes with martial training. She took to the training well, though is one of the most unorthodox Masters in the Order due to the unusual path her training took. She prefers to wait for openings and keep her distance from opponents (which she can do easily thanks to the 15-foot long pyrokinetic whip she can manifest) but once she finds an opening she will rush in unhesitatingly to finish off her foes.

[OOC: Jasim was 13th level when the party first met her, a mix of soulknife, ardent, factotum, and pyrokineticist. She is now 14th level.]
Master of Iron Heart: Dagor Thaan
Master Dagor replaced the Enclave's original Master of Iron Heart eighteen years after the founding of the Enclave when the previous Master died (of old age, which is rare for a hobgoblin warrior) and has held his rank against all challengers for eleven years. He is (and encourages his students to be) disciplined, refined, and no stranger to teamwork--except where the Enclave's Master of Tiger Claw is concerned, as the latter mocked him quite a bit for his lack of seniority right after his promotion and sparked a rivalry between them. He favors the dwarven waraxe--very unusual for a bugbear, but he looted his axe off his first enemy Master kill and has held onto it for sentimental reasons--and prides himself on his excellent footwork.

[OOC: Dagor is 15th level, a mix of warblade, marshal, and fighter.]

Master of Tiger Claw: Khach Tuugal
Master Khach was the runt of his bugbear litter and started his training late; he kept to himself for his early years thanks to constant bullying for being small and weak, and his talent was only recognized after he finally snapped when a dozen hobgoblins tried to "play catch with Khach" and he killed them all with two sharp sticks. Violent and abrasive, and now a bit of a bully himself, he quickly rose to the top ranks in his Temple, eventually leaving to found the Obsidian Fang Temple (which would later merge with the Steel Raptor School to form the Talon Enclave) when he felt he'd exhausted his potential there. He never goes anywhere without his two massive flails, and he fights recklessly without any concern aside from inflicting as much pain and humiliation as possible.

[OOC: Khach is 15th level, a mix of warblade, wizard, and arcane duelist.]
Master Boreas: Name Unknown
The fighting style, duties, and even race of Master Boreas are unknown, but his observed talent with illusion magic implies that he is the Master in charge of hiding and protecting the Temple, and the fact that Masters of the North Wind traditionally study both Setting Sun and Devoted Spirit can provide a hint to his likely fighting style.

Master Vulturnus: Two of Nine
Master Vulturnus is the Master of Autumn's kin, designed to tutor students in Devoted Spirit. After wandering the world for a year trying to track down his traitorous brothers Six and Eight of Nine, he decided that vengeance was secondary to fulfilling his purpose and sought out a Temple in which to teach. Assigned the position of Master of the East Wind due to his discipline choice, he eagerly assimilated the Temple's philosophy and has been teaching there ever since. Like all of his kin, his fighting style is a balanced and mechanically precise expression of his discipline's traditional style.

Master Auster: Name Unknown
Master Auster is rather reclusive, never meeting visitors. The only fact outsiders know about the Master of the South Wind is that he or she traditionally studies neither Setting Sun and Devoted Spirit, instead studying one or more other paths to learn what they can teach Setting Sun and Devoted Spirit devotees.

Master Zephyrus: Name Unknown
The current Master Zephyrus is the only Master Zephyrus the Temple of the Four Winds has had, a venerable gnome who has taught Setting Sun adepts since the Temple's founding. She is the Temple's loremaster and scribe, and spends more time these days teaching philosophy and illustrating techniques than physically teaching them, for obvious reasons.

Adept: Fei Xien
Adept Fei Xien's kenku flock lives in the Silver Peaks near the Temple of the Four Winds, so she was familiar with the Temple growing up and when she expressing interest in the fancy techniques used by her friends among their adepts they encouraged her to train there. She is nonconfrontational and highly group-oriented like most of her race, so her fighting style emphasizes avoiding, dodging, and enduring attacks until her enemies are exhausted and outmaneuvered and her fellow adepts can finish them off.

[OOC: Fei Xien was 12th level when the party first met her, a mix of swordsage, cleric, and Shadow Sun Ninja. She is now 13th level.]

Adept: Limessel Silvervale
Adept Silvervale prefers hand-to-hand combat as opposed to the sword or bow his elven brethren favor, so after spending a frustrating century in his home city's army he sought out the Temple of the Four Winds to practice a style that better suited him. Lighter and weaker than most of the monstrous foes he was used to facing, he developed a fighting style based on using his enemies' strength and reach against them.

[OOC: Silvervale was 12th level when the party first met him, a mix of swordsage, monk, and Shadow Sun Ninja. He is now 13th level.]

Adept: Jacuna Morja
Adept Jacuna was the first member of her family to leave her fishing village on the Isle of Dawn to train as a martial adept. Having studied some Devoted Spirit before she left, she decided to focus on that and is one of the more talented Devoted Spirit adepts in the Temple. Her fairly defensive fighting style is similar to the flowing waves of her home: hang back and defend nearby allies, then rush forward with a flurry of blows to give them a breather, repeat as necessary.

[OOC: Jacuna is 12th level, a mix of crusader, cleric, and fighter.]
Grandmaster: Name Unknown
The Grandmaster of Diamond is a part-human of some variety, his features too symmetrical and even to pass for pure human. His exact background and training are unknown, as it is part of his duties as Grandmaster of the Sanctum to not favor any of its groups over any other so far as he can help it, but he is capable of initiating Time Stands Still and so must have come from the ranks of the Crystal, Sapphire, or Topaz group and focused his training on the path of Diamond Mind. He was one of the original seekers of Supernal Clarity when it was stolen shortly before after the Fall of the Temple, but after the Fall he gave up the search, joined the Sanctum, and quickly rose through the ranks.

[OOC: Grandmaster Diamond is 20th level, a mix of warblade, crusader, ardent, and legacy champion.]

Master Amethyst: Name Unknown
The Master of Amethyst is a powerful human psionicist who wields a trident and focuses his fighting style around extreme mobility via blinding speed and short-range teleportation. He has exhibited strong telepathy and hints of precognition as well, and is responsible for providing private mental communication among the Masters or with Adepts who have left the Sanctum as well as identifying and preventing threats to the Sanctum as a whole. He seemingly always has a grin on his face (as it's not difficult to stay cheerful when you can foresee what's going to happen) and appears content with his role in the Sanctum.

[OOC: Master Amethyst is 16th level, a mix of warblade, swordsage, psychic warrior, and ardent.]

Master Sapphire: Hanzha
The Master of Sapphire is a no-nonsense half-elven woman who speaks in very measured and formal diction, keeps her hair in severe braids, and wears a full bandolier of small throwing stilettos across her chest at all times. She studied in the Bloodstorm Guild in her youth, which is how she is able to use her stilettos to Diamond Nightmare Blade enemies with pinpoint accuracy at sixty paces and is also where she met Senior Adept Tatyaara (then only Adept Tatyaara) before bringing her along to the Sanctum when she herself joined it.

[OOC: Hanzha is 16th level, a mix of warblade, swordsage, bloodstorm blade, war mind, and eternal blade.]

Senior Adept Tatyaara
Tatyaara, a Senior Adept of the Sapphire group, is a mystery. She claimed to be merely a student of Iron Heart who came to the Sanctum upon Master Hanzha's suggestion to learn Diamond Mind, but was proved to have studied Devoted Spirit and Setting Sun as well and to have much greater skill than she led the Sanctum Masters to believe. The party first believed her to possibly be a mole from the Temple of the Unconquered Sun, particularly since she had an accomplice Adept with her as well, but she was quite obviously unfamiliar with Abd and Koan (whom any Unconquered Sun Master would certainly have known) and the Unconquered Sun tactics in their later attack on the Sanctum suggested they had no inside knowledge of the Sanctum or its layout. She was able to teleport away and avoid questioning, so her true loyalties remain unknown.

DesignationDisciplineCurrent AllegianceCurrent Rank
One of NineDesert WindIndependentUnknown
Two of NineDevoted SpiritTemple of the Four WindsMaster Vulturnus/Master of the East Wind
Three of NineDiamond MindN/A (Slain by Six of Nine during the Fall)N/A
Four of NineIron HeartTemple of the Four SeasonsMaster of Autumn
Five of NineSetting SunUnknownUnknown
Six of NineShadow HandTemple of the Unconquered Sun (assumed)Unknown
Seven of NineStone DragonIndependentUnknown
Eight of NineTiger ClawTemple of the Unconquered SunMaster of Noon
Nine of NineWhite RavenN/A (Slain by Six of Nine during the Fall)N/A

stack
2012-02-14, 02:02 PM
Torog will take dark slate gray, for obvious reasons.

Sheet should have all the info. Let the kung-fu fighting begin!

stack
2012-02-14, 02:41 PM
DM's second post disappeared, so I edited my second post to be spoilered. I presume you decided to give more time to react to the OP?

DrK
2012-02-14, 02:45 PM
The Forging of 4 of 9

46 Years ago Renshar, the founding and greatest of the Sword Lords saved the life of an ancient, powerful and honourable dwarven Runesmith named Kragg the Grim. The dwarf, thankful that his life, his forge, and most importantly his clan's Book of Grudges had been saved he vowed to repay Renshar with a gift suitable for the Temple.

The magic of the dwarves coupled with their crafting skills gave rise 2 years later to the finest Warforged that the realm had seen. Each crafted with consumate skilled and instilled with the mastery of but a single discipline of the blade.

The 9 warforged became the training dummies of the Temple. Each of the 9 practicing a single style with the students all day, every day, and in doing so they grew, each possessed by their own type of sentience. THey watched and the learned. A schism grew between them, the odds and the evens. The odds looking to mix their styles and the evens staying true to their singular focus. And as the schism between the Temple Lords grew so did the battles between the training dummies.

When the split happend 4 battles his former kin, 3 was killed as was 7 but 9, the worst and most treacherous, the trainer of the Shadow escaped, killing 6 (the White Raven) and 2 (the diamond mind). As the battle raged the Lord of Iron Heart was slain 4 of 9 picked up Kamate the blade of the Iron Heart and immediatly felt a connection, like it was forged for his hand. Since then he has been hunting 9 and 3, the most treacherous of the Odds and continuing to train the new recruits. In doing so he has retained Kamate with his intention to pass it on when he found a student worthy of it...
But I'd like to speak in darkred as its used by some of my other pcs in the past.

BelGareth
2012-02-14, 02:49 PM
Abd al-Aziz will speak in Bold Red for speech and Italic Red for thought.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-02-14, 03:03 PM
DM's second post disappeared, so I edited my second post to be spoilered. I presume you decided to give more time to react to the OP?

Yep. The Prologue and Present posts were supposed to be one after the other, but a forum glitch delayed the Present and let you post, so I'm giving everyone else a chance to react to the Prologue now. When I repost the Present part, you can move your spoilered stuff there.


But I'd like to speak in darkred as its used by some of my other pcs in the past.

I'll change the color used by minor enemy NPCs, then, so there's no confusion.

DrK
2012-02-14, 03:27 PM
I'll change the color used by minor enemy NPCs, then, so there's no confusion.

Thanks :smallsmile:

Looking forward to this.

BelGareth
2012-02-14, 03:53 PM
Thanks :smallsmile:

Looking forward to this.

Ditto, this is, so far, awesome.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-02-14, 04:26 PM
Thanks :smallsmile:

Looking forward to this.


Ditto, this is, so far, awesome.

Glad you hear you two like it.

I've added some information on people and places in the second post, so you can get an idea of what you can expect from your allies and enemies in the near future. I'll add to it as you learn things in-game.

Jheska
2012-02-15, 11:23 AM
Posting full backstory and IC tommorow, spending today with my boyfriend. Just a heads up why nothing has been posted yet.

BelGareth
2012-02-17, 01:45 AM
So are we on a sabbatical?

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-02-17, 01:50 AM
So are we on a sabbatical?

I was waiting for Jheska to get a post in before continuing, as she said she'd post something, but it's been over 24 hours so I'll put a post up shortly to move things along.

stack
2012-02-17, 08:13 AM
Wow, didn't even get everyone posted IC before someone went missing. I've had shorter games.

Jheska
2012-02-17, 11:47 AM
Not vanished, just busy for slightly longer than expected with romancing. :smallredface:

I shall choose Medium Turquoise as my speech colour. IC post immanent.


Background:
Richard Vander has dedicated his entire life to the concept that a disciplined mind can overcome any obstacle. The loss of his parents aged 12 to orcish raiders seems to bother him little, indeed he was utterly cold in his matter of fact approach to the loss. He grew up outwardly showing little emotion at all, masking his true feelings beneath neaturality and cold logic, and age 17 he left what remained of his village to find work elsewhere. He quickly fell into work as a mercenary, having been picked up by a roaming company at what remained of the bandit ambush that had attempted to waylay him. In battle he would weave through the enemy ranks, ducking under swinging maces and parrying curved blades before dispatching each of his opponents with a single sharp blow.

His skill in the White Hand mercenary company was evident, and though the pay was good the work was uninspiring and often morally questionable so when a noble family attempted to poach him for bodyguard work he seized the opportunity. In the employ of higher society it was now his words not merely his sword arm that were being trained. In his off time he poured through their library obsessively, consuming the knowledge within with almost obsessive speed. By the time his services were no longer required Vander was a consumate swordsman, negotiator and scholar.

From his work in service of nobility he often came across other men in similar employ and it was on the stories of one of these men that Vander saught out the temple of four seasons, a place with swordsmen far greater than himself. Upon his arrival he still held too much arragonce, too much pride, and the man he challenged to prove his worth beat him handily and turned him aside. Vander was not disuaded, making his camp outside temple walls he trained and fought again each day, whenever he had recovered enough to fight, trying to prove the skill the adept had scorned. After fourteen such defeats he asked for entry, rather than demanding and so began his apprentiship.

Six years later and he has applied his single minded focus to the discipline which demands such as a matter of course, and has become one of the foremost experts of the discipline of the diamond mind. He spends his days with apprentices, teaching them the rigourous focus required to truly master the school of clarity though this is rarely through direct combat. His evening are spent pouring over reports on both the activities of those learning and teaching at this temple and of what spies have gleaned from their rival temple.

In conversation he is intelligent, but often falling into the trap of becoming too single minded in his approach. He rarely voices an opinion based on anything other than what he would consider prudent, though will readily take on board and debate the ideas and sugestions of others.

BelGareth
2012-02-17, 11:56 AM
Not vanished, just busy for slightly longer than expected with romancing. :smallredface:

I shall choose Medium Turquoise as my speech colour. IC post immanent.


Background:
Richard Vander has dedicated his entire life to the concept that a disciplined mind can overcome any obstacle. The loss of his parents aged 12 to orcish raiders seems to bother him little, indeed he was utterly cold in his matter of fact approach to the loss. He grew up outwardly showing little emotion at all, masking his true feelings beneath neaturality and cold logic, and age 17 he left what remained of his village to find work elsewhere. He quickly fell into work as a mercenary, having been picked up by a roaming company at what remained of the bandit ambush that had attempted to waylay him. In battle he would weave through the enemy ranks, ducking under swinging maces and parrying curved blades before dispatching each of his opponents with a single sharp blow.

His skill in the White Hand mercenary company was evident, and though the pay was good the work was uninspiring and often morally questionable so when a noble family attempted to poach him for bodyguard work he seized the opportunity. In the employ of higher society it was now his words not merely his sword arm that were being trained. In his off time he poured through their library obsessively, consuming the knowledge within with almost obsessive speed. By the time his services were no longer required Vander was a consumate swordsman, negotiator and scholar.

From his work in service of nobility he often came across other men in similar employ and it was on the stories of one of these men that Vander saught out the temple of four seasons, a place with swordsmen far greater than himself. Upon his arrival he still held too much arragonce, too much pride, and the man he challenged to prove his worth beat him handily and turned him aside. Vander was not disuaded, making his camp outside temple walls he trained and fought again each day, whenever he had recovered enough to fight, trying to prove the skill the adept had scorned. After fourteen such defeats he asked for entry, rather than demanding and so began his apprentiship.

Six years later and he has applied his single minded focus to the discipline which demands such as a matter of course, and has become one of the foremost experts of the discipline of the diamond mind. He spends his days with apprentices, teaching them the rigourous focus required to truly master the school of clarity though this is rarely through direct combat. His evening are spent pouring over reports on both the activities of those learning and teaching at this temple and of what spies have gleaned from their rival temple.

In conversation he is intelligent, but often falling into the trap of becoming too single minded in his approach. He rarely voices an opinion based on anything other than what he would consider prudent, though will readily take on board and debate the ideas and sugestions of others.

Sweet, glad to still have you around.

Oh and just so everyone knows the way to pronounce Abd, is 'Abeed':smallsmile:

BelGareth
2012-02-20, 11:29 PM
I posted BTW, seems that it's registering me as the last poster though.

stack
2012-02-21, 08:30 AM
This is what I get for getting excited about a game. Its been a week and we can't get everyone posted IC. I don't want to sound like a jerk, but this game is over if we don't get it moving. Should we look for a new fourth?

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-02-21, 01:02 PM
This is what I get for getting excited about a game. Its been a week and we can't get everyone posted IC. I don't want to sound like a jerk, but this game is over if we don't get it moving. Should we look for a new fourth?

I PMed Jheska, but it looks like she hasn't been around since the 17th. :smallsigh: I'll give her until this evening to show up, then we'll put Vander under DM control and look into getting a replacement.

BelGareth
2012-02-23, 08:13 PM
So....what are we waiting on?

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-02-24, 12:00 AM
So....what are we waiting on?

I put up a re-recruitment message in the original recruitment thread in the hopes of finding a replacement, but apparently the post wasn't showing. I deleted it and reposted; you should pop over there and let me know if it still isn't showing up.

mrcarter11
2012-02-25, 09:04 AM
So hey guys. It seems I'll be subbing in for the Diamond Mind master. I'll get a link to my sheet once I've slept and woken up.

Belcor will take "Grey as speech if that's cool.

BelGareth
2012-02-25, 11:07 AM
I put up a re-recruitment message in the original recruitment thread in the hopes of finding a replacement, but apparently the post wasn't showing. I deleted it and reposted; you should pop over there and let me know if it still isn't showing up.
LOL, seems this post wasn't showing up either!


So hey guys. It seems I'll be subbing in for the Diamond Mind master. I'll get a link to my sheet once I've slept and woken up.

Belcor will take "Grey as speech if that's cool.
Welcome!

stack
2012-02-25, 01:28 PM
Great, I was afraid this would fall apart before I got to smash someone through a wall. High-level characters take too much build time to not get to use them.

mrcarter11
2012-02-26, 05:10 PM
I was waiting to post IC until Dice had a chance to retcon everything with my PC. But in favor of not holding this game up, should I just go ahead and post?

On the topic of time it takes to build, I built mine in an hour. :smallbiggrin:

stack
2012-02-26, 09:17 PM
I still find picking maneuvers time consuming, though not nearly as bad as items (oddly, the rules about items for this games made it worse, as you didn't just dump cash into big-tickets stat boosters, not that I'm complaining)

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-02-27, 02:55 AM
Sorry about the delay, folks, it's been a looooong weekend. The IC post is up, complete with retcons and map, and Belcor's sheet is linked in the OP.

stack
2012-02-27, 08:39 AM
Well, Torog will start things with a bang. let's see if I built him as strong as I thought.

Initiative [roll0]

I knew I would be glad i took the gloves that grant shadow jaunt, being able to beat that 20' move is a life-saver.

BelGareth
2012-02-27, 12:23 PM
Well, Torog will start things with a bang. let's see if I built him as strong as I thought.

Initiative [roll0]

I knew I would be glad i took the gloves that grant shadow jaunt, being able to beat that 20' move is a life-saver.

Gah, I hope I go before you....My build is somewhat based off it.

[roll0]

EDIT: how are we doing this? Did Torog initiate combat with his surprise Robilar's gambit or are we going by initiative order?

EDIT:: If I go first I'm going to activate Rising Phoenix Stance Move next to the top most right and use Wyrms Flame on all the Adepts near him (covering 7 of them)

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-02-27, 12:44 PM
EDIT: how are we doing this? Did Torog initiate combat with his surprise Robilar's gambit or are we going by initiative order?

Post what you're doing, and we'll resolve in initiative order.

stack
2012-02-27, 12:56 PM
I should get a free intimidate check for the giant black armored thing popping out of the shadows :smallbiggrin:

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-03-01, 06:55 AM
Yay surprise blizzards! Sorry about yet another delay, folks; I lost heat at my place and had to go to a friend's house with his spotty internet. :smallsigh:

Initiative for bad guys: [roll0]
4 of 9's initiative, since he didn't roll it already: [roll1]

Leader's opposed Intimidate for the duel of wills: [roll2]

So initiative order is:
4
Abd
Belcor
Baddies
Torog

I'll have enemy moves and an updated map posted in a few hours, once I get some sleep.

mrcarter11
2012-03-01, 07:40 AM
I had really been hoping that my natural 3 would be enough to win my duel of wills.. Sadly I guess not.

BelGareth
2012-03-01, 10:13 AM
I had really been hoping that my natural 3 would be enough to win my duel of wills.. Sadly I guess not.

Haha, not with a nat 20!

DrK
2012-03-01, 02:34 PM
Confirm Vs the Adept
[roll0] extra damage [roll1]

Confirm Vs the Leader
[roll2] extra damage [roll3]

Confirm AoO 2
[roll4] extra damage [roll5]

Confirm AoO 3
[roll6] extra damage [roll7]

mrcarter11
2012-03-02, 05:19 AM
Hey Dice, it seems I messed my attack roll modifier by 1, so I'll be increasing it on my sheet. I had forgotten to include Weapon Focus.

mrcarter11
2012-03-02, 05:34 AM
Well since my last post isn't showing and it seems I rolled a crit..

Crit Confirm
[roll0]

Damage
[roll1]

stack
2012-03-02, 08:18 AM
Well, unless he gets tricky (which is likely), that should hurt pretty bad. Full attacks + dungeoncrasher brings some damage. Playing with initiative is fun too.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-03-02, 04:07 PM
Well, unless he gets tricky (which is likely),

:smallamused:


And yes, putting him up against a wall was intentional on my (but not his) part. Happy birthday.

DrK
2012-03-03, 01:56 AM
Hey,

Did we recognise the moves which they've been using?
Martial lore [roll0]

The two attacks against me.. would have both triggered Robilar's Gambit for (31+36) damage.

I've got a 50% miss chance as well from Ring of Entropic Deflection and moving 10ft last round- was that rolled for?

If I couldn't have done Manticore Parry I would have just done Wall of Blades for the same result negating the first hit (34 Vs 33)

Also if they are using sneak [roll1] against the possible hit negating on a 1 for being a warforged.

:smallsmile:

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-03-03, 11:06 AM
Hey,

Did we recognise the moves which they've been using?
Martial lore [roll0]

Yes, sorry; I should probably just start putting their maneuvers in the spoiler, since you should all have high enough mods to determine them automatically.

The adepts used Cloak of Deception to get close to you and Wolf Fang Strike to attack.


The two attacks against me.. would have both triggered Robilar's Gambit for (31+36) damage.

That's a copy-paste error, there was only the one adept attacking you, not two. I'll cross that out.


I've got a 50% miss chance as well from Ring of Entropic Deflection and moving 10ft last round- was that rolled for?

A ring of entropic deflection only provides a miss chance against ranged attacks, not melee attacks.


If I couldn't have done Manticore Parry I would have just done Wall of Blades for the same result negating the first hit (34 Vs 33)

Sounds good.

---------------------------------

I'm going to a convention today with a friend of mine from out of town, so I should have the next update posted this evening.

stack
2012-03-05, 04:05 PM
If 48 doesn't hit than I will be annoyed. 121 damage (assuming successful bullrush) should rattle his cage though.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-03-05, 05:00 PM
If 48 doesn't hit than I will be annoyed. 121 damage (assuming successful bullrush) should rattle his cage though.

That would have hit, and would have really ruined his day, were it not for Stand Still. "Tricky" is definitely the right word for this guy's fighting style; "dastardly" and "really kind of unfair" are also acceptable answers. :smallwink:

Torog's fire damage: [roll0]

DrK
2012-03-05, 05:22 PM
What is the reach of his lightning swords?
I only ask as giant Torog currently has 10ft reach from being large.

stack
2012-03-05, 08:49 PM
Yes, that was my question too. Torog isn't getting closer than 10' unless necessary.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-03-05, 10:51 PM
The reach is 20 feet.

BelGareth
2012-03-09, 11:18 AM
In regards to being tripped, Abd is in Rising Phoenix stance, which gives him a fly speed.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-03-09, 12:59 PM
In regards to being tripped, Abd is in Rising Phoenix stance, which gives him a fly speed.

I'd forgotten you can only trip winged flyers. Ignore the attack, then.

stack
2012-03-09, 01:11 PM
Oh, in that case Torog will use his standard action to activate his winged mask to get flight for 5 minutes (plus he glows).

DrK
2012-03-16, 02:50 AM
Hello Pair'ODice Lost. I think we are awaiting the DM's actions?
(though saying that I'm away for the wekeend but.. back on Monday)

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-03-16, 08:48 PM
Yeah, we were waiting on me. I've been on a ski trip (it's my spring break) and the ski house's router was down, so I wasn't able to post anything this week. I'll have the next IC post up momentarily. Sorry 'bout that, guys.

mrcarter11
2012-03-17, 02:34 PM
Skiing is nice, I hope you enjoyed yourself. Also, hope you have a nice spring break.

I was going to say, Belcor has been in Hearing the Air since we started. So shouldn't Blindsense be telling Me where this guy ran to?

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-03-17, 02:41 PM
Skiing is nice, I hope you enjoyed yourself. Also, hope you have a nice spring break.

I was going to say, Belcor has been in Hearing the Air since we started. So shouldn't Blindsense be telling Me where this guy ran to?

Hearing the Air only has a 30-foot range, so you know he ran straight down the tunnel until he left its range, but you don't know exactly what square he's in now.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-03-23, 06:13 PM
I figured that was enough waiting for Belcor's actions, so the next IC post is up. Stack, you can roll Torog's Robilar's Gambit attacks in this thread.

BelGareth
2012-03-28, 08:58 PM
Sorry I've been absent, had some real life slap me in face.

Will try and post tonight.

If you want to move on without me, and will assent to going with belcor.

mrcarter11
2012-03-30, 11:34 PM
Well Bel what say you. I think North sounds good.

BelGareth
2012-03-31, 09:26 AM
Well Bel what say you. I think North sounds good.

Sounds good to me, I will post a more thorough post later on today.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-04-03, 05:43 PM
Update:

Don't expect an IC post for a few days. Finishing up my thesis, have slept 4 hours since Saturday. Everything sucks. Bulletins as events warrant.

DrK
2012-04-03, 10:45 PM
Update:

Don't expect an IC post for a few days. Finishing up my thesis, have slept 4 hours since Saturday. Everything sucks. Bulletins as events warrant.

That takes me back a few years. Good luck with that. What's the doctorate in?

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-04-08, 09:41 PM
Well, I only got 11 hours of sleep during all of last week, but at least the thesis is done.


That takes me back a few years. Good luck with that. What's the doctorate in?

Computer science, specifically machine learning and large-scale parallel simulation. I like parallel computing, but I don't like when the supercomputer starts having issues less than one week before the deadline and sets you back a few days.... :smallsigh:

I'll have an IC post up soonish, probably tomorrow morning.

mrcarter11
2012-04-10, 04:46 PM
How tall are the stalagmites? Dancing Moth allows Me to ignore anything shorter then 5 feet.

Bel, I think your Rising Phoenix would allow you to take the long path with ease. I really lack any stances to help with this unless Dancing Moth works here.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-04-10, 05:05 PM
How tall are the stalagmites? Dancing Moth allows Me to ignore anything shorter then 5 feet.

Bel, I think your Rising Phoenix would allow you to take the long path with ease. I really lack any stances to help with this unless Dancing Moth works here.

We're talking average-size stalagmites here, just 4-5 feet, so both Rising Phoenix and Dancing Moth would let you ignore them (though every time you use a column of superheated air to fly over stalagmites, somewhere a geologist is crying :smallwink:). However, taking one of the shortcuts would let you gain ground on the adept where just following him through the maze probably wouldn't.

mrcarter11
2012-04-10, 05:33 PM
Concerning question. If he was slowed by them, and we avoided them, wouldn't we gain on him? But barring that logic, I prefer the second shortcut.

BelGareth
2012-04-10, 06:39 PM
I favor either going up the sheer cliff path or just following, I think following him would be better though.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-04-10, 11:00 PM
Concerning question. If he was slowed by them, and we avoided them, wouldn't we gain on him? But barring that logic, I prefer the second shortcut.

To clarify, he had a 4-round lead, and now he has about a 2-round lead, and if you just follow him instead of taking a shortcut you won't gain any additional ground.

We have one vote for the second shortcut and one for just following. Which will it be?

mrcarter11
2012-04-11, 01:52 AM
Directed to Bel, would you like us to each take a path? I'm all for trying the pathway and perhaps getting in front of him. If that fails however, and something terrible happens to Me, you can be only two rounds behind him. Hopefully the other two Masters can help Me out if something happens.

DrK
2012-04-11, 01:55 AM
If you shout loud enough should things go pear shaped then of course we'll come and help...

BelGareth
2012-04-11, 09:54 AM
Directed to Bel, would you like us to each take a path? I'm all for trying the pathway and perhaps getting in front of him. If that fails however, and something terrible happens to Me, you can be only two rounds behind him. Hopefully the other two Masters can help Me out if something happens.

This sounds like a terrible idea, you know the credo, Don't split the party.

And therefore should be our plan of action :smallbiggrin:

EDIT: I can activate My boots of Haste to give me +20 speed for another 9 rounds, would that help in catching him?

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-04-11, 08:09 PM
This sounds like a terrible idea, you know the credo, Don't split the party.

And therefore should be our plan of action :smallbiggrin:

Go ahead! Split the party! Nothing bad can possibly happen!

:smallamused:


EDIT: I can activate My boots of Haste to give me +20 speed for another 9 rounds, would that help in catching him?

You currently have no information on what his speed is. If you think that haste will help you catch up, go with the maze; if you think otherwise, go with one of the shortcuts.

BelGareth
2012-04-26, 02:06 PM
will post when i get home as I am AFB right now.

But if you want to do it for me, Abd will be charging with salamanders charge.

BelGareth
2012-04-27, 04:06 PM
Goodbye stalagtite, goodbye stalactite, goodbye wall, goodbye another wall, goodbye thousand-year-old rock formation, goodbye very surprised bats and rats and scurrying critters. The stone passageways indeed cannot stand up to a Master of Stone Dragon.


LOL, this is epic.

But you forgot:
Goodbye Rubble,
Goodbye to the old lady with stubble.

:smallbiggrin:

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-04-27, 04:20 PM
LOL, this is epic.

But you forgot:
Goodbye Rubble,
Goodbye to the old lady with stubble.

:smallbiggrin:

Old lady with stubble? How dare you talk about Grandmaster Tsikul like that!? :smallwink:

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-05-05, 04:54 AM
Screwed up the roller; Four takes [roll0] damage.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-05-14, 04:52 AM
Aaand my last final project of the semester--my last school project ever, thank Pelor--was submitted half an hour ago. Woohoo, graduation, here I come. :smallcool: My posting frequency should improve quite a bit now, barring graduation rehearsals and such. I'm composing the next IC post now.


The vanguard treads ignore difficult terrain as they are giant spiky metal boots. Its all the fashion for robots...

Gah, not again. I'm running another PbP involving a warforged martial adept, who has an entirely different set of warforged components, and I keep mixing her up with Four. Just keep reminding me, I'll get it straight eventually.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-06-05, 11:45 AM
So, the reason I haven't updated in a while is that I was waiting for someone else to post for a week or so, and then since right after graduation I've been in Europe with the family without regular internet access, because apparently my mom lied when she said all of the hotels and B&B's we'd be staying at had wifi available. :smallannoyed: I hope the longer-than-normal update and plot advancement make up for the delay.

I probably won't be able to post again before Sunday since that's when I get home to the States. Feel free to talk amongst yourselves until then.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-07-06, 04:11 PM
Apologies once again for the delay; the thunderstorm that hit the eastern US and knocked out power in the DC area hit my area pretty hard and we've been without power for a week. :smallannoyed:

So, currently, you Masters have a few options. You can keep going after the enemy Masters to gather the Nine Swords; you can contact the various single-discipline temples to gather some allies to assault the Unconquered Sun; you can start setting up secondary Temples and train up your own forces (with a suitable timeskip, of course); or you can try something else. Up to you guys.

DrK
2012-07-08, 04:50 AM
I like the idea of travelling to the single discipline Temples and then converting them to our side.

Which of the Temples do we know about?

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-07-08, 08:09 PM
I like the idea of travelling to the single discipline Temples and then converting them to our side.

Which of the Temples do we know about?

You know in general terms about all of the temples--e.g. "the hobgoblins teach Iron Heart, they have fifty or so people in their program, and they live over there"--but you haven't necessarily visited or corresponded with them much since the Breaking of the Temple, so things might have changed a bit from what your archives have to say.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-08-05, 01:36 AM
I'm going to assume from the lack of responses that everyone wants to just fast-forward to the oasis. If no one posts by noonish tomorrow I'll put up the next IC post.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-08-27, 01:48 AM
Hey guys, long time no talk.

So I'd initially been waiting for stack to post, but as it turns out he has disappeared from the forums, and posted as such to most (but not all) of his PbP games and didn't inform the rest. :smallsigh: When I discovered this, I sent him some PMs and emails asking how he wanted me to handle his character and gave him until today to respond, and haven't heard anything.

The question, then, is what do you want to do with Torog (I was thinking have him just stay silent for this RP encounter and have you guys share control if a combat happens), and do you want to re-recruit again to fill his spot?

DrK
2012-08-29, 01:03 AM
Easyiest thing would be to have him RP his out out of the group-
1/ His sword speaks of a solo quest
2/ A goliath arrives with a family dilemma and then he leaves.

BelGareth
2012-08-29, 10:51 AM
I agree, and sorry for not posting in a while....:smalleek:

mrcarter11
2012-08-29, 06:05 PM
I think him leaving for a while could be good, and it would mean that he could come back later when the poster was able to post again.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-09-05, 10:17 PM
I hope everyone had a fun Labor Day weekend, or a fun weekend-like-any-other if you're outside the States.

I think we'll go with the "Torog goes silent for now and finds a convenient plot hook as soon as possible" option. IC post coming up momentarily.

DrK
2012-09-06, 02:46 PM
Just a regular weekend here but thanks all the same. Been enjoying watching all your conventions on the news... Crazy way of public speaking.

Sorry before I post - was it just Abd that went down on the slab or all 3 of us? Sorry I learned to read :smallsmile:

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-09-10, 01:38 AM
While Abd's duel will probably be quite short (unless he decides to be cruel and draw things out a bit :smallamused:), I don't want the rest of you to be bored while it goes on. Please do one of the following in the next day or two: challenge the warriors to a duel as well IC, request OOC for them to challenge you to a duel (there's certainly cause for them to challenge Four after his slight against them), or mention that you're fine with waiting around for a bit.

mrcarter11
2012-09-17, 04:54 PM
So as a general post, I think I may drop out of this game after the current encounter. I want to play this last encounter to see but I've kinda just felt that my PC doesn't really contribute as much in RP or in combat, and so I'm not really sure I want to continue playing. But I'd like to see if my thoughts on combat are correct. I know that RP wise, I don't contribute as much, and I'm not really sure what I can do to change that, so.. Yeah, rambling a bit I know, but I just wanted to say that I may end up dropping out of the game at some point soon.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-09-17, 05:23 PM
So as a general post, I think I may drop out of this game after the current encounter. I want to play this last encounter to see but I've kinda just felt that my PC doesn't really contribute as much in RP or in combat, and so I'm not really sure I want to continue playing. But I'd like to see if my thoughts on combat are correct. I know that RP wise, I don't contribute as much, and I'm not really sure what I can do to change that, so.. Yeah, rambling a bit I know, but I just wanted to say that I may end up dropping out of the game at some point soon.

I can't really give much advice on contributing RP-wise, since if you don't have a clear idea of Belcor's personality or just aren't having fun RPing with him or similar, there's not much I can do. He's come across as somewhat of a blank slate so far, so perhaps sitting down and trying to figure out what his personality and goals really are would help. As far as combat goes, if you feel that you're not contributing as much as you'd like to in combat, I'd be fine with letting you respec Belcor to be more effective.

Either way, I appreciate the heads-up, and please let me know if there's something else I can do to keep you having fun with this game.

mrcarter11
2012-09-17, 06:50 PM
I do want to take the time to say it isn't anything against you Dice. Honestly I think you've done wonderfully so far, and I've been enthused about your posts nearly every time. I do at least want to say that.

TekHed
2012-09-17, 07:30 PM
Hello,

I do hope I am not out of order in chiming in. I am following along and will be replacing Torog as Master of Spring/Stone Dragon if Stack does not return.

Just wanted to say that I know how it can be when a character doesn't "pop" in your mind, and engage you in their story. The best I can offer is to encourage you to think about who the character was before coming to train in the martial arts, why they came there, what their relationships were like...one of the most powerful ways of getting inside a character's head is to get out of their head, and think of how they relate to important people in their lives, and why.

Seeing as how I would like the game to continue so I can join in, I feel I have a stake in your enjoyment mrcarter11; although I suppose we could recruit for a Master of Winter/Diamond Mind, it would further slow the progression of the story...

Again, I hope me jumping in with commentary is not out of order since I am still technically not in the game. My apologies to Dice and the rest of you if I've offended.

BelGareth
2012-09-17, 07:54 PM
Hello,

I do hope I am not out of order in chiming in. I am following along and will be replacing Torog as Master of Spring/Stone Dragon if Stack does not return.

Just wanted to say that I know how it can be when a character doesn't "pop" in your mind, and engage you in their story. The best I can offer is to encourage you to think about who the character was before coming to train in the martial arts, why they came there, what their relationships were like... of the most powerful ways of getting inside a character's head is to get out of their head, and think of how they relate to important people in their lives, and whay.

Seeing as how I would like the game to continue so I can join in, I feel I have a stake in your enjoyment mrcarter11; although I suppose we could recruit for a Master of Winter/Diamond Mind, it would further slow the progression of the story...

Again, I hope me jumping in with commentary is not out of order since I am still technically not in the game. My apologies to Dice and the rest of you if I've offended.

If I were not on my phone, I would be a little more verbose. Your analysis is spot on, and I too have this same issue occasionally. Also, you are more than welcome, saw a recruitmentthread from you and from the people in it (invite only) you're good by me.

Welcome to the game (i assume dice invited you).

TekHed
2012-09-17, 08:02 PM
Haha, not exactly...I sort of stalked Dice. :smalltongue:

I was looking for a DM in the registry to take on one of the campaign ideas I had, and I wasn't going to ask him because he is already running both a RHoD I masterminded and a solo game for me so I figured he would be tapped out. When I came to his listing in the DM registry though it had a link for ToB only and I had recently seen another player try to recruit a DM for that in the recruitment forum and fail. Not only that but I had come across Endarire's amazing Stone Dragon revision and really wanted to try it out...so when I came to check out the threads I found that Stack had recently left and there was an opening so I PMed Dice....

...perfect serednitpity all around really. I'm super stoked with my Stone Dragon master as well. He has a great history and personality that I hope to bring to our virtual table. :smallsmile:

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-09-17, 09:16 PM
Carter, thank you for the compliments, it's always nice for a DM to know he's appreciated. Keep me posted regarding respeccing or introspecting Belcor.

Tek, don't worry, you're not the first player to stalk my games and I'm sure you won't be the last. :smallwink:

All, I'll have the IC post up after dinner, should be in an hour or so.

mrcarter11
2012-09-17, 09:48 PM
And I actually also sorta stalked Dice to get into this game.. But that's a story for another time.

As for the specing of Belcor. I've tried to keep him as a sorta aloof PC, that just tries to think of the possible cause and effects of what happens around him. He doesn't engage in fights unless needed and tries to avoid unnecessary risks. But I would like to start painting a better picture of who he is as the Master of Winter.

As far as crunch goes. My ability scores are mostly rubbish compared to everyone else and looking at sheets, it seems I've never really spent much of my wealth. At least off the top my head, I don't think I have. My sheet won't actually load right this moment. And I'm pretty sure that I've miscalculated my attack and damage, but that shouldn't be hard to redo.

I guess I just feel like he doesn't really keep up, though that might be in part due to my personal inexperience with Diamond Mind. It's not a discipline I commonly use.

BelGareth
2012-09-17, 10:04 PM
And I actually also sorta stalked Dice to get into this game.. But that's a story for another time.

As for the specing of Belcor. I've tried to keep him as a sorta aloof PC, that just tries to think of the possible cause and effects of what happens around him. He doesn't engage in fights unless needed and tries to avoid unnecessary risks. But I would like to start painting a better picture of who he is as the Master of Winter.

As far as crunch goes. My ability scores are mostly rubbish compared to everyone else and looking at sheets, it seems I've never really spent much of my wealth. At least off the top my head, I don't think I have. My sheet won't actually load right this moment. And I'm pretty sure that I've miscalculated my attack and damage, but that shouldn't be hard to redo.

I guess I just feel like he doesn't really keep up, though that might be in part due to my personal inexperience with Diamond Mind. It's not a discipline I commonly use.

Oh man, I love diamond mind, its my go to for mystical/Kensai/samurai melee pc. and I think for most people. Once I get to work tomorrow, I'll take a look at your character and throw some tips at you. Tis all about concetration for being effective in melee.

BelGareth
2012-09-18, 12:39 AM
HERE (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12677864&postcount=15) is the link to original 16 for the recruitment thread.

Check it out for your WBL and other house rules, from the look of if it, it seems like your stats are low due to not adding +1 every even level.

TekHed
2012-09-19, 06:23 PM
I think Dice might be a bit spread thin trying to update his 6 games. Nonetheless I am eager to see this battle parlay out so I can jump in!

Good luck with Abd's 4-on-1 Bel.

Given the slow pace of PbP content I imagine I'll get to start playing sometime in mid-late October... :smalltongue:

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-09-19, 07:12 PM
I think Dice might be a bit spread thin trying to update his 6 games. Nonetheless I am eager to see this battle parlay out so I can jump in!

In this case, it's more a matter of making a map in Kolourpaint and statting up a few more Masters than I had planned, neither of which I can do at work during my lunch break, which is when I usually try to catch up my games. I'm home early today, though, so I should have that up in the next few hours.


Good luck with Abd's 4-on-1 Bel.

It's a 7-on-4 now, actually, which could help or hurt both sides. Should be interesting.


Given the slow pace of PbP content I imagine I'll get to start playing sometime in mid-late October... :smalltongue:

Patience, young Padawan. We're in this for the long haul; I have one game that passed the 2.5 mark before I needed to re-recruit any players, and it's still going strong.

TekHed
2012-09-19, 07:20 PM
Patience and eagerness can coexist methinks. :smallsmile:

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-09-20, 01:48 AM
We're just going to use side-based initiative for this one, since trying to resolve counters, readied actions, and such with eleven mid-to-high level initiators would be a nightmare otherwise. Post your characters' actions and they'll be resolved in the most beneficial order.

We won't roll initiative yet because four of the Masters are initiating Duels of Will: Master 3 vs. Belcor, Master 2 vs. Abd, Master 6 vs. Torog, Master 5 vs. Four. Respond as you will. Each side will have the character with the highest initiative roll, with an effective Aid Another from each ally unless that ally submits in the Duel of Wills.

Master 2 Intimidate: [roll0]
Master 3 Intimidate: [roll1]
Master 5 Intimidate: [roll2]
Master 6 Intimidate: [roll3]


Here's a quick run-down of what you can see of the enemy Masters to aid you in picking targets and tactics:

Master 1: Asherati (Sandstorm), wielding one eagle's claw (Sandstorm), in Flame's Blessing stance

Master 2: Orc, wielding two scimitars, in Flame's Blessing stance

Master 3: Elf, wielding one great falchion (Sandstorm) in Fiery Assault stance

Master 4: Xeph, wielding one khopesh (Sandstorm), in Holocaust Cloak stance

Master 5: Human, wielding one great scimitar (Sandstorm), in Flame's Blessing stance

Master 6: Shifter, wielding two scimitars, in Holocaust Cloak stance

Master 7: Human, wielding one crescent scythe (Sandstorm), in Fiery Assault stance


EDIT: Just had a thought. Tek, since you're so anxious to participate, if the others don't mind I'll let you run Torog for this combat. Makes things a lot easier for me.

mrcarter11
2012-09-20, 04:01 AM
I think Abd has the best initiative, so we'll wait for him.

Duel of Wills however, I can roll now.

[roll0] I should auto win this, anyways.

TekHed
2012-09-20, 07:56 AM
Okay, but it's always challenging running other player's characters...I take no responsibility if I get him killed. :smalltongue:

Can someone outline the mechanics of a Duel of Wills? I'm unfamiliar with it...

Edit: Nevermind, just found it under Intimidate.

BelGareth
2012-09-20, 10:46 AM
Abd will ignore the challenge.

[roll0]

Well this i going to be interesting...:smallbiggrin:
We're going to have to keep apart, you guys don't (unless you have a item) have fire pro, and all the good desert wind moves are AOE (well mostly), so keeping apart will be best for us.

TekHed
2012-09-20, 03:52 PM
Torog will answer that challenge with a stare that promises pain and punishment... [roll0]

TekHed
2012-09-22, 01:18 AM
So...what is needed next?

Gotta get everyone in the habit of checking the boards/posting more frequently...

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-09-22, 01:40 AM
So...what is needed next?

Gotta get everyone in the habit of checking the boards/posting more frequently...

We're waiting for DrK to decide on Four's reaction to the Duel of Wills, then we'll begin. We'll give him another day and if I don't hear something I'll assume he takes the challenge and roll for him. Not everyone is as obsessive about their PbPs as you and I are. :smallwink:

TekHed
2012-09-22, 02:30 AM
Who me? :smallbiggrin:

TekHed
2012-09-24, 11:27 PM
Can somebody poke DrK in his adamantine arse so we can get rolling? :smallsmile:

I would do it, but he might wonder who the hell I am. :smalltongue:

BelGareth
2012-09-24, 11:52 PM
Can somebody poke DrK in his adamantine arse so we can get rolling? :smallsmile:

I would do it, but he might wonder who the hell I am. :smalltongue:

Looks like he was online last today, he is most likely busy with RL, I know that happens to him every now and then (who doesn't?), but he is a solid player/DM and he'll come back when is available to do so.

Why don't we move on in the mean time?

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-09-25, 12:09 AM
Looks like he was online last today, he is most likely busy with RL, I know that happens to him every now and then (who doesn't?), but he is a solid player/DM and he'll come back when is available to do so.

Why don't we move on in the mean time?

I was just about to suggest the same. I wanted to give DrK today to post, since a lot of people check the forums at work or are too busy with other stuff on weekends, but it's been enough time for now.

I'll assume Four engages in the challenge given his Intimidate focus, so here's that roll: [roll0]. Initiative coming in the next post once I know the outcome of that, then an IC post.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-09-25, 12:18 AM
Actually, I could have rolled initiative in that post, since I forgot only submitting in a duel comes with an initiative penalty, not losing one. :smallredface:

Oh well. In any case, each of the three of you who participate wins their duel, and your Aid Anothers give a +6 to Abd's initiative, giving Team Temple a 32.

Team Dervish initiative: [roll0]

EDIT: Looks like Team Temple goes first. I'll post the bit about the duels IC, then you can post actions.

TekHed
2012-09-26, 06:00 AM
Just need Belcor's actions now to move forward...

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-09-28, 06:52 PM
Crit confirm against Abd: [roll0]

Crit confirm against Four: [roll1]

Torog's save: [roll2]

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-09-28, 07:00 PM
All right, guys, your turn again.

For future reference, if any of you are ever running a game and decide to make seven mid-to-high-level characters all themed around a single martial discipline, pick the disciple a bit broader than "fire and mobility." :smallwink: Even with all of 3e to draw upon, giving them all a different style was a pain in the ass.

BelGareth
2012-09-28, 07:30 PM
All right, guys, your turn again.

For future reference, if any of you are ever running a game and decide to make seven mid-to-high-level characters all themed around a single martial discipline, pick the disciple a bit broader than "fire and mobility." :smallwink: Even with all of 3e to draw upon, giving them all a different style was a pain in the ass.

oh man, I hear ya...

on a side note....ACK...gurgle...cough...I'm hit!

TekHed
2012-09-28, 11:12 PM
ooooo....only 1 away from a critical threat dagnabbit.

Preparing for a diving dungeon crash next round...

DrK
2012-09-29, 01:23 AM
Sorry all - I missed all of the duel of will stuff.

My attack rolls are wrong Pair'O'Dice.

My base attack roll is +29 so first attack roll should be 42 (which I hope hits!)
With battle Cunning 2nd and 3rd rolls should be 10 higher (5 from base attack of 29 and 5 from Int) so 37 and 41...

And UMD check for my shot [roll0] modifier is actually +12 I'm a tool. So score of 21

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-09-29, 01:54 AM
Whoops. Don't know why I used the second number in your attack routine; probably mixed it up with all the tab-switching. :smallconfused: The readied attack was already a hit, and with those numbers the other two hit as well; I'll update the description to match.

DrK
2012-09-29, 04:00 AM
Whoops. Don't know why I used the second number in your attack routine; probably mixed it up with all the tab-switching. :smallconfused: The readied attack was already a hit, and with those numbers the other two hit as well; I'll update the description to match.

Cheers.

Found why I missed the duel of wills stuff. I'd unsubcribed to the OOC thread. Silly smart phones and very small buttons! :smallbiggrin:

BelGareth
2012-09-29, 10:04 AM
Holy...crapnoodle....I think Abd is just going to dance around while his brethren lay waste to the opponents...lol

EDIT:
Belcor - FINISH HIM! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hHDxlm66dE)

Also, you will want to move 5ft away from the wall, adjacent people take 3d6 fire damage on their turn. foe or friend.

TekHed
2012-09-29, 03:42 PM
I do believe you just rolled a crrit-threat (though oddly on a 1d21). Probably should confirm it...

BelGareth
2012-09-29, 04:52 PM
I do believe you just rolled a crrit-threat (though oddly on a 1d21). Probably should confirm it...
Dammit, that was meant to be 1d20+21....grrrr.

Reroll: to hit

[roll0] - :smallfrown: ah well...

TekHed
2012-09-29, 07:45 PM
I'd have just used it as a confirmation roll...

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-07, 01:48 AM
Rolling Four's fortification, should have done that with the attack rolls (1 negates the crit): [roll0] [roll1]

EDIT: Memo to self: never send a counterattack build against this party again.

TekHed
2012-10-07, 05:13 AM
...not only that, but when the Dervish crits against Torog he immediate activates his Retribution Amulet and the poor Dervish takes another 32 points of Damage...let me know if that is enough to drop him...

DrK
2012-10-07, 05:33 AM
Hey pairodice. Glad forum is back!

Am I right in thinking I only catch 2 hits? And then the first is countered by Wall of Blades so just gently once.

Was it a maneuver he used to extend his reach? With martial study I should get it.

TekHed
2012-10-07, 05:36 AM
P.S. Also just realized Torog's armor gives him displacement, so could you roll for miss chance on the ones that hit him por favor?

DrK
2012-10-07, 05:49 AM
P.S. (Sorry PairODice :smallsmile:) As the first "hit" (and crit) is countered by Wall of Blades and the second hit gets only a 26 to confirm then I don't think that confirms.

So only 17 damage in total (after DR2+5 iron ward) after the 33 from last round. Total so far of 50.

My martial Lore check is [roll0] by the way to get that flame-man's special move.

BelGareth
2012-10-07, 10:34 AM
The very reason why I was loathe to use AOE attacks against these guys....

Abd has evasion and takes no damage from the spell.

P.S - this is awesome. Had a ton of fun reading that last post, Keep it coming!

EDIT -

What is the elevation difference of 4 and 3?

Basically I'm going to use Wyrms Flame (30 ft. Cone) on both of them if I can (by moving north and then breathing on both of them at and angle?)

Also, would Ring of Fire affect creatures not on the ground? The maneuver doesn't specifically state how high the flames go or if they do, I would think, they wouldn't (everything else, like salamanders charge is on the ground) but wanted to get your confirmation on it.

Also, also, Leaping Flame, do you slowly fall to the ground after the maneuver/end of turn or do you drop instantly? What about a ring of Feather Falling? Again, maneuver doesn't say, but wanted to get your ruling on it.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-07, 11:30 AM
...not only that, but when the Dervish crits against Torog he immediate activates his Retribution Amulet and the poor Dervish takes another 32 points of Damage...let me know if that is enough to drop him...

Ouch. Doesn't kill him, but he's not looking good.


Am I right in thinking I only catch 2 hits? And then the first is countered by Wall of Blades so just gently once.

The first hit you countered I didn't roll for because he couldn't have rolled higher than your WoB; Four counters 1 then gets attacked by 7 more.


Was it a maneuver he used to extend his reach? With martial study I should get it.

It's Burning Brand, sorry.


P.S. Also just realized Torog's armor gives him displacement, so could you roll for miss chance on the ones that hit him por favor?

The displacement property has a swift action activation, so if you didn't activate it it's not on.


P.S. (Sorry PairODice :smallsmile:) As the first "hit" (and crit) is countered by Wall of Blades and the second hit gets only a 26 to confirm then I don't think that confirms.

So only 17 damage in total (after DR2+5 iron ward) after the 33 from last round. Total so far of 50.

The first attack wasn't countered (see above) so he still takes the 42 from that.


P.S - this is awesome. Had a ton of fun reading that last post, Keep it coming!

Thanks!


What is the elevation difference of 4 and 3?

Basically I'm going to use Wyrms Flame (30 ft. Cone) on both of them if I can (by moving north and then breathing on both of them at and angle?)

Same elevation; the JPM is standing on the 10-foot-high plateau and the pyro is standing 10 feet high in the air.


Also, would Ring of Fire affect creatures not on the ground? The maneuver doesn't specifically state how high the flames go or if they do, I would think, they wouldn't (everything else, like salamanders charge is on the ground) but wanted to get your confirmation on it.

Also, also, Leaping Flame, do you slowly fall to the ground after the maneuver/end of turn or do you drop instantly? What about a ring of Feather Falling? Again, maneuver doesn't say, but wanted to get your ruling on it.

Hmm. We'll say Ring of Fire goes as high as your vertical space, which is 2 squares/10 feet for medium, so it wouldn't affect 3 or 4. Unless otherwise specified you just fall after an affect puts you in the air, so same for Leaping Flame, and feather fall would negate the damage normally.

DrK
2012-10-07, 03:31 PM
I'm terrified by their ability to get 8 attacks in a round :smalleek:

With that additional hit I'm up to 85 total damage (42 -7DR). Ouchie!

TekHed
2012-10-07, 03:51 PM
Ah..seeing as how its not my PC, and I don't have access to scroll the character sheet (Stack didn't make his sheet that user friendly), I *should* have known that info...do you mind if I have him activate it? Then can use the immediate in place of the next round's swift so it should be kosher.


Edit: though actually...the revised Ancient Mountain Hammer is a swift action...which I did not note...so technically, I should be able to get in another standard action strike (though that might take out Torog too from the counterattack)....what say you? (Sorry for realizing all this after the turn, but it is my first time using a character that's not mine, so there is a bit of learning curve).

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-08, 12:11 AM
I'm terrified by their ability to get 8 attacks in a round :smalleek:

He's just a dervish; what's there to be afraid of? :smallamused:


Ah..seeing as how its not my PC, and I don't have access to scroll the character sheet (Stack didn't make his sheet that user friendly), I *should* have known that info...do you mind if I have him activate it? Then can use the immediate in place of the next round's swift so it should be kosher.


Edit: though actually...the revised Ancient Mountain Hammer is a swift action...which I did not note...so technically, I should be able to get in another standard action strike (though that might take out Torog too from the counterattack)....what say you? (Sorry for realizing all this after the turn, but it is my first time using a character that's not mine, so there is a bit of learning curve).

Hmm. To prevent retconning too much, we'll keep Torog's turn as-is, and say you used your standard to ready an action to activate displacement after using AMH (which, while being tactically suboptimal, prevents me from having to resolve that attack sequence again). So displacement is now active but doesn't help against those attacks, and AMH can be used as a swift action in future.

TekHed
2012-10-08, 12:55 AM
Yes AMH is a swift. however, the point of using it is to keep Torog in the fight longer by hopefully taking less damage...is it so hard to just roll a few percentiles to negate a couple attacks? It wouldn't change anything else...

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-08, 01:04 AM
Yes AMH is a swift. however, the point of using it is to keep Torog in the fight longer by hopefully taking less damage...is it so hard to just roll a few percentiles to negate a couple attacks? It wouldn't change anything else...

I know what the point is, and rolling percentiles isn't difficult. However, while I'm a fairly very permissive DM, I don't like retconning things because of forgotten or misunderstood abilities, bad tactics, or other reasons. Master 6 was damaged quite a bit by the exchange just like Torog was, both sides now have a Master low on health, and both sides are now well aware of their own and the opposing Masters' abilities. The round stands as played.

TekHed
2012-10-08, 01:13 AM
Alright. As I said a bit of a learning curve. I won't be so sloppy with my own character.

BelGareth
2012-10-08, 12:32 PM
It saddens me that my best maneuver only does 10d6....*sad panda*

And yes I do know it does it in a 30ft cone...but still....

mrcarter11
2012-10-12, 02:49 PM
Hm.. Abd you had mentioned having some tips for Diamond Mind, I'll take them if you know anything..

DrK
2012-10-12, 02:54 PM
I may have an issue. DnD sheets seems to have gone down and I'm not sure if its coming back. If that's the case then I'll have to remake 4 of 9 from scratch which may take some time.

TekHed
2012-10-12, 03:23 PM
On Myth-weavers? All of my sheets are still there...

Oh, and I forgot in my last posts the bonuses from Duel of Wills so please add +1 attack and damage to all results.

BelGareth
2012-10-12, 04:19 PM
Hm.. Abd you had mentioned having some tips for Diamond Mind, I'll take them if you know anything..

Some things:


Con is your optimum stat.
Warblade is your optimum class.

Items

Tunic of Steady Spellcasting (2500 GP, MIC p. 144). +4 competence bonus on all Concentration checks (not just spellcasting).

Githcraft template (+600 GP per item, DMGII p. 276). +1 untyped bonus on Concentration for each githcraft item.

Mordrei'in (25 GP, Faiths of Eberron p. 153). +2 alchemical bonus to Concentration and Spot checks for 10 minutes.

Rhul (50 GP, Lords of Darkness p. 184). Drug/poison, initial effect +4 alchemical bonus to Str and Con, -2 penalty to AC. Secondary effect, user is fatigued (Icewild Lichen Paste, 50 GP, Secrets of Sarlona, can get rid of fatigue). As a side effect, must make a Will save DC 16 or you cannot make ranged attacks and must only use melee attacks. Overdose (more than one does taken in an hour) does 1d4 points of Int and Wis damage.

Calming armor enhancement: +5 competence bonus to Concentration. 4,000 gp, Secrets of Sarlona pg 137.

Masterwork item (like a circlet or tabard) 2500 (custom item, so DM's approval)


Great Classes for synergy

One level of Marshal would let you add your Charisma to your Constitution checks. (not so good with your Cha)

Exemplar (Complete Adventurer) gives you some sort of similar ability.


Feats

Shape Soulmeld: Vitality Belt

Wild Talent, giving you the ability to become Psionicaly focused, so you can expend it taking a '15'.

Instant Clarity to recover it after the strike. (3/day)

Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm) - Note the invest skill points section.

Martial Study(Diamond Mind)

Steadfast Determination (to synergy with your high Con)

Skill focus(concentration) which you have

Power Attack (for Emerald Razor Fun)


If I was going for an optimum build for concentration, I would go something like a Bard 4/Warblade 11 or Marshal 2/Warblade 13 or Warblade 15.



EDIT: and yes, I took these from another thread.
Now I have the itch to play one...

TekHed
2012-10-12, 05:22 PM
By the by, just clicked the link for 4 of 9 in the first post in this thread and his sheet looks fine to me...

BelGareth
2012-10-12, 05:27 PM
By the by, just clicked the link for 4 of 9 in the first post in this thread and his sheet looks fine to me...

Just tried it myself, not working...IE, chrome...

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-14, 03:09 AM
Screwed up the damage against Belcor, rerolling: [roll0]

@DrK: Your sheet looks fine from here. If you can't access it, TekHed or I could screenshot it for you to recreate.

EDIT: Wow, talk about lucky rolls, Bel. Abd was almost a goner there.

TekHed
2012-10-14, 03:46 AM
I'm viewing it in Safari if it makes a difference.

Also, you forgot to roll the 50% Miss Chance from Displacement Pair...normally I think it's customary for the attacker to roll their own miss chances but I'll do so now to determine if Torog bites it...

Attack 1: [roll0]
Attack 2: [roll1]

ooh! tough-titties...both go *whiff*!

DrK
2012-10-14, 03:53 AM
Screwed up the damage against Belcor, rerolling: [roll0]

@DrK: Your sheet looks fine from here. If you can't access it, TekHed or I could screenshot it for you to recreate.

EDIT: Wow, talk about lucky rolls, Bel. Abd was almost a goner there.

Thanks. Dnd sheets appears to be back. So I'll download a copy for myself. But phew. Glad its back.

DrK
2012-10-14, 05:13 AM
Hey tekhead.

I don't think you can do the adanantine vice and the shocktrioper. One is a full action charge, the other is a standard action attack.

TekHed
2012-10-14, 05:20 AM
Is Shocktrooper only on a charge? Hmm...I hadn't realized that. Too bad Stack didn't take a level of Barbarian for Pounce...also Goliath's have the very tasty Mountain Rage variant for even more insanity.

Ok. So ditch the strike and just make it a leap attack charge (since he moves more than 10 feet), and add another +2 to the attack roll for it. AC is 16 this round (with Displacement on top)

TekHed
2012-10-15, 03:51 AM
Just saw Torog has Armbands of Might so add another +2 to my (revised) damage total...

TekHed
2012-10-15, 03:12 PM
mrCarter....Belcor is on deck!

TekHed
2012-10-15, 06:38 PM
Dayum...3 just got triple-teamed. Heh.

TekHed
2012-10-16, 01:33 AM
Oooh...Battle Clarity just makes Torog's second save...but still lands him at -1 HP, unless, the first spell is a direct targeting spell and not an AoE, in which case Torog gets concealment. If so, let's see... [roll0]

So yeah, let me know if that helps, and I'll make a response post.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-16, 02:17 AM
Oooh...Battle Clarity just makes Torog's second save...but still lands him at -1 HP, unless, the first spell is a direct targeting spell and not an AoE, in which case Torog gets concealment. If so, let's see... [roll0]

So yeah, let me know if that helps, and I'll make a response post.

First off, Battle Clarity is already factored into Torog's Ref save, that's where the miscellaneous +4 on his sheet is from, so the second save still fails. Second, miss chance (from concealment or otherwise) only applies against actual attack rolls, so it wouldn't matter in any case.

TekHed
2012-10-16, 03:39 AM
Ah well, I said I might get him killed... :smalltongue:

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-16, 04:16 AM
Ah well, I said I might get him killed... :smalltongue:

Well, Torog needed a reason to retire anyway, might as well make it "I lost to a bunch of inferior warriors, I need to go off and train for a while."

mrcarter11
2012-10-16, 06:12 AM
Uh, I'm not sure how close four's attack was to missing, but he doesn't gain any flank bonus. I was at 3 HP before I took another 11 from Firesnake.

BelGareth
2012-10-16, 10:38 AM
So...a 40 doesn't actually hit Abd (i noticed it was a 19 not a 20 so no auto hit) because....

Base 38
He charged -2
Dodge bonus from moving +10 ft (from the charge)
+4 from Mobility
Total 41

If you still want it to hit, fair enough, just thought I would say.
Admittedly, I should have posted my AC bonus.

EDIT:
Also, bouncing off the previous question I had about Ring of Fire, would it work in the air?
I want to run around the last guy 10ft up with Rising Phoenix Stance and use Ring of Fire in the air (10ft up) so it will affect him. Is this Kosher? (It does say along the ground, so if not, I won't cry, promise.)

EDIT EDIT:
Although I am still interested on your thoughts regarding Ring of Fire, I have found what I am going to do, apparently, Desert Wind gives me a boost to Fan the Flames...I had not realized that....Fan the flames it is...

EDIT EDIT EDIT:
How would you decipher this, do I get Fan the Flames with +1 bonus to each die as an at will maneuver, or do I just get +1 to each die?

Fan the Flames (Su): Beginning at 15th level, you can
use the fan the fl ames maneuver (see page 53) at will, as if
you knew it. If you already know fan the fl ames, you instead
deal an extra 1 point of fi re damage per die on your damage
rolls with that maneuver. Caster level 10th.

TekHed
2012-10-16, 12:39 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?nomobile=1&v=mIBTg7q9oNc

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-16, 04:58 PM
So...a 40 doesn't actually hit Abd (i noticed it was a 19 not a 20 so no auto hit) because....

Base 38
He charged -2
Dodge bonus from moving +10 ft (from the charge)
+4 from Mobility
Total 41

If you still want it to hit, fair enough, just thought I would say.
Admittedly, I should have posted my AC bonus.

That's my fault, I forgot about the dodge bonus.


EDIT:
Also, bouncing off the previous question I had about Ring of Fire, would it work in the air?
I want to run around the last guy 10ft up with Rising Phoenix Stance and use Ring of Fire in the air (10ft up) so it will affect him. Is this Kosher? (It does say along the ground, so if not, I won't cry, promise.)

Along the ground only, sorry.


EDIT EDIT:
Although I am still interested on your thoughts regarding Ring of Fire, I have found what I am going to do, apparently, Desert Wind gives me a boost to Fan the Flames...I had not realized that....Fan the flames it is...

EDIT EDIT EDIT:
How would you decipher this, do I get Fan the Flames with +1 bonus to each die as an at will maneuver, or do I just get +1 to each die?

You already know it, so you just add the +1 per die.

BelGareth
2012-10-16, 06:07 PM
Not going to lie, that disarming is really annoying.:smallmad:

EDIT:
This will be super interesting if the last Adept wins the fight....and Abd will eternally sulk. Nevermind, he will be killed for losing....:smallfrown:

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-16, 07:05 PM
Not going to lie, that disarming is really annoying.:smallmad:

I aim to please. :smallbiggrin:


EDIT:
This will be super interesting if the last Adept wins the fight....and Abd will eternally sulk. Nevermind, he will be killed for losing....:smallfrown:

Well, dying and eternally sulking aren't mutually exclusive, depending on what Abd's afterlife of choice is.

TekHed
2012-10-16, 11:30 PM
It's up to you now DrK!

:Torog breaks out the bag of popped corn:

How did Torog pop the corn you might ask? Duel of Wills...he glared at the bag and the kernels got so scared they shook until they popped!

BelGareth
2012-10-16, 11:37 PM
I aim to please. :smallbiggrin:



Well, dying and eternally sulking aren't mutually exclusive, depending on what Abd's afterlife of choice is.

This is true!

Can't wait to see what happens!

TekHed
2012-10-18, 03:41 PM
I think we just won...

BelGareth
2012-10-18, 03:49 PM
I think we just won...

Yeh, me too, I was thinking Four might have gone down, but it seems not, Now I have to RP the fallout of being disarmed, for which I have several ideas on how to do it...should be interesting.

And Here I was all ready to make a new character!

DrK
2012-10-18, 03:53 PM
Yeh, me too, I was thinking Four might have gone down, but it seems not, Now I have to RP the fallout of being disarmed, for which I have several ideas on how to do it...should be interesting.

And Here I was all ready to make a new character!

Why would you think 4 would go down? He's only taken ~80 points of damage. A Ring of Evasion has never been so valuable :smallwink:

BelGareth
2012-10-18, 04:14 PM
Why would you think 4 would go down? He's only taken ~80 points of damage. A Ring of Evasion has never been so valuable :smallwink:

I thought he had taken more damage, for some reason.

BelGareth
2012-10-20, 12:03 PM
Hey PairO'Dice Lost, curious has to how you make your maps?

Is it easy to do or just something you have developed over the years?

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-20, 05:38 PM
Hey PairO'Dice Lost, curious has to how you make your maps?

Is it easy to do or just something you have developed over the years?

It's nothing fancy. I just use Kolourpaint, which is basically a Linux version of MS Paint with a few extra features. I'm not really artistic enough to have needed to learn Photoshop or GIMP, and in my RL games I either use my Lego dungeon and minifigures for smaller maps or a whiteboard and markers for large-scale maps, so it was the best solution for PbP I could come up with.

As for how the maps are made, what you see is what you get. It's just the polygon and ellipse Paint tools filled in with the bucket tool and overlaid on a scratch-made grid, with a generous use of copy-paste and the text tool for characters. That's why I tend to leave out grid numbering on my bigger maps, since getting the spacing and size right can be a real pain.

TekHed
2012-10-21, 06:59 PM
Okay, now that the fight is over, Torog goes back on auto-pilot, until such time as the new Master of Spring arrives...

BelGareth
2012-10-21, 07:06 PM
It's nothing fancy. I just use Kolourpaint, which is basically a Linux version of MS Paint with a few extra features. I'm not really artistic enough to have needed to learn Photoshop or GIMP, and in my RL games I either use my Lego dungeon and minifigures for smaller maps or a whiteboard and markers for large-scale maps, so it was the best solution for PbP I could come up with.

As for how the maps are made, what you see is what you get. It's just the polygon and ellipse Paint tools filled in with the bucket tool and overlaid on a scratch-made grid, with a generous use of copy-paste and the text tool for characters. That's why I tend to leave out grid numbering on my bigger maps, since getting the spacing and size right can be a real pain.

Thanks, I appreciate the info.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-24, 02:28 AM
If you have any more questions to ask the Masters or other stuff to say, post it now; we'll montage the feast, warrior selection, and trip back to the Temple in a day or so unless someone wants to do something else in the meantime.

Tek, could you post a link to your character's sheet? If you ever PMed it to me it's in my PM backups now and it'd be easier for you to post it than for me to try to dig it up. I'm planning to introduce you in the next few posts, so I hope Torog is up for an epic quest in the mysterious country of Farfromthetempleistan.

TekHed
2012-10-24, 03:48 AM
Certainly...my one wish would be to have a proper ceremony for the passing of Unfettered, so as not to be too cheesy or cheap. Such weapons should not pass hands very often, imho.

Everyone, meet Koan:

Master Koan is an orphan, brought to the temple at the age of six after most of his village fell prey to a mysterious plague. Due to his late start (for most Temple students begin their training at the age of four), Koan lacked the seriousness and discipline of many of his peers, and was often scolded and punished for acting out in mischievous ways, getting into brawls, or playing hooky from his studies.

He did make one friend however, Antonio Scotari, a half-human of indeterminate origin. Antonio was smaller and weaker than Koan, in spite of being a ear his senior. Their friendship was sealed when the rough-and-tumble Koan protected Antonio from some upper-classman bullies. For many years they were inseparable; however after puberty, when training became more intense and serious, a wedge began to come between them. After years of being picked on, Antonio had begun to develop a very "underhanded" and cut-throat approach to fighting, while Antonio grew more resentful of Koan's skill, which he achieved with such apparent ease that he was still known for playing hooky from lessons to tempt the daughters of nearby villagers, or even fellow co-eds who fell prey to his cocky charm.

By the time the two former best-friends had come of age, they had begun to have students of their own, and their rivalry was passed down to their pupils. Things escalated for two more years until finally an incident occurred where a few of Antonio's students jumped some of Koan's, and one of Antonio's students was badly wounded. Even though their rivals had initiated the fight, Koan took responsibility and, disgusted by the situation, exiled himself from the Temple at the age of 24.

For many years, Koan wandered the wilderness, surviving through skill and guile. He traveled beyond the Great Desert to the shores of the vast ocean and back. He subsisted as a mercenary fighting in wars between the Hobgoblins and their ilk. He spent two years living on a mountain, where his hair and beard grew long and he traded and fought with dwarves and giants and goliaths alike. Finally, Koan traveled north, far to the north where great rivers of ice carve through mountains and time. It was there that Koan met his ultimate mentor, the silver dragon Severex, a master of the aptly-names Stone Dragon school.

From Severex did Koan learn many advanced techniques, but his training did not stop there. Koan was taught to us his mind as his greatest weapon, to blend into the forest, mimic it's sounds, or even disguise his appearance, taking on the role of another to learn about and misdirect his enemies.He also spent a good deal of time in scholarly pursuits, for Severex had many scrolls of history detailing the many battles and empires that had shaped the world across the ages. Finally, after many grueling years of training; learning to splinter logs, and eventually boulders with his bare fists, and hardening his flesh in the freezing water of glacial falls, Severex initiated Koan into the ancient words of draconic, most ancient of all languages. With these arcane utterances, Koan learned to inspire valor in himself and others, add power to healing, and even to summon the hoarfrost of the silver wyrms to coat his weapons.

It took some time for news of the treachery of the Shadow Horde to reach Koan in his hermitage, a decade after he has last looked upon it's venerable walls. Before taking his leave to defend the temple, Severex taught Koan his greatest secret. A single syllable, one that had been used to forge the heart of the world, to empower his spirit. This could be taxing to the wielder however, and after he used it only once in practice, it had turned a shock of his hair silver-white. Even with such a gift however it would be to no avail, for Koan arrived too late, the ashes of the True Temple still smoldering. He would have left then and there to pursue the hated foe and wreak vengeance, but Joseph Sapler had a better idea. It was the Grandmaster of Unity who succeeded in reminding Koan that vengeance was best served cold, and that his strength would be needed to regroup and rebuild.

That was two years ago, and Koan has bided his time. No longer the flashy reckless man of his youth, Koan has cooled immeasurably. His presence is calm, a bit understated even, with the quiet strength and solidity of a boulder. His icy blue eyes, now graced with creasing crow's feet, are frozen steel, but Koan is not one for intimidation, through word or deed. Instead he bides his time until it is necessary to act. The the Mountain Glacier becomes an avalanche; cold, hard, and unrelenting.

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/2707/wuubbig.jpg
Koan, The Mountain Glacier (with Unfettered) (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=444427)

Koan will speak in icy bold Deep Sky Blue

BelGareth
2012-10-24, 10:09 AM
Certainly...my one wish would be to have a proper ceremony for the passing of Unfettered, so as not to be too cheesy or cheap. Such weapons should not pass hands very often, imho.

Everyone, meet Koan:

Master Koan is an orphan, brought to the temple at the age of six after most of his village fell prey to a mysterious plague. Due to his late start (for most Temple students begin their training at the age of four), Koan lacked the seriousness and discipline of many of his peers, and was often scolded and punished for acting out in mischievous ways, getting into brawls, or playing hooky from his studies.

He did make one friend however, Antonio Scotari, a half-human of indeterminate origin. Antonio was smaller and weaker than Koan, in spite of being a ear his senior. Their friendship was sealed when the rough-and-tumble Koan protected Antonio from some upper-classman bullies. For many years they were inseparable; however after puberty, when training became more intense and serious, a wedge began to come between them. After years of being picked on, Antonio had begun to develop a very "underhanded" and cut-throat approach to fighting, while Antonio grew more resentful of Koan's skill, which he achieved with such apparent ease that he was still known for playing hooky from lessons to tempt the daughters of nearby villagers, or even fellow co-eds who fell prey to his cocky charm.

By the time the two former best-friends had come of age, they had begun to have students of their own, and their rivalry was passed down to their pupils. Things escalated for two more years until finally an incident occurred where a few of Antonio's students jumped some of Koan's, and one of Antonio's students was badly wounded. Even though their rivals had initiated the fight, Koan took responsibility and, disgusted by the situation, exiled himself from the Temple at the age of 24.

For many years, Koan wandered the wilderness, surviving through skill and guile. He traveled beyond the Great Desert to the shores of the vast ocean and back. He subsisted as a mercenary fighting in wars between the Hobgoblins and their ilk. He spent two years living on a mountain, where his hair and beard grew long and he traded and fought with dwarves and giants and goliaths alike. Finally, Koan traveled north, far to the north where great rivers of ice carve through mountains and time. It was there that Koan met his ultimate mentor, the silver dragon Severex, a master of the aptly-names Stone Dragon school.

From Severex did Koan learn many advanced techniques, but his training did not stop there. Koan was taught to us his mind as his greatest weapon, to blend into the forest, mimic it's sounds, or even disguise his appearance, taking on the role of another to learn about and misdirect his enemies.He also spent a good deal of time in scholarly pursuits, for Severex had many scrolls of history detailing the many battles and empires that had shaped the world across the ages. Finally, after many grueling years of training; learning to splinter logs, and eventually boulders with his bare fists, and hardening his flesh in the freezing water of glacial falls, Severex initiated Koan into the ancient words of draconic, most ancient of all languages. With these arcane utterances, Koan learned to inspire valor in himself and others, add power to healing, and even to summon the hoarfrost of the silver wyrms to coat his weapons.

It took some time for news of the treachery of the Shadow Horde to reach Koan in his hermitage, a decade after he has last looked upon it's venerable walls. Before taking his leave to defend the temple, Severex taught Koan his greatest secret. A single syllable, one that had been used to forge the heart of the world, to empower his spirit. This could be taxing to the wielder however, and after he used it only once in practice, it had turned a shock of his hair silver-white. Even with such a gift however it would be to no avail, for Koan arrived too late, the ashes of the True Temple still smoldering. He would have left then and there to pursue the hated foe and wreak vengeance, but Joseph Sapler had a better idea. It was the Grandmaster of Unity who succeeded in reminding Koan that vengeance was best served cold, and that his strength would be needed to regroup and rebuild.

That was two years ago, and Koan has bided his time. No longer the flashy reckless man of his youth, Koan has cooled immeasurably. His presence is calm, a bit understated even, with the quiet strength and solidity of a boulder. His icy blue eyes, now graced with creasing crow's feet, are frozen steel, but Koan is not one for intimidation, through word or deed. Instead he bides his time until it is necessary to act. The the Mountain Glacier becomes an avalanche; cold, hard, and unrelenting.

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/2707/wuubbig.jpg
Koan, The Mountain Glacier (with Unfettered) (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=444427)

Koan will speak in icy bold Deep Sky Blue

Niice.

I'm not familiar with some of those manuevers/stances....where are they from?

BelGareth
2012-10-24, 01:12 PM
Sorry for double post.

In response to DrK:

I would prefer to go to one of the temples dedicated to the other masters, let each of us have our turn in the spot light.

TekHed
2012-10-24, 01:17 PM
Dice okayed me with using Endarire's extremely well-done redesign of Stone Dragon. You can find the link to his work in the notes section of my sheet.

Glad you like him. :smallbiggrin:

Edit: I think the idea is to lead the new recruits back to the temple before moving on...which also gives an opening for Unfettered to be passed along properly.

BelGareth
2012-10-24, 01:28 PM
Dice okayed me with using Endarire's extremely well-done redesign of Stone Dragon. You can find the link to his work in the notes section of my sheet.

Glad you like him. :smallbiggrin:

Edit: I think the idea is to lead the new recruits back to the temple before moving on...which also gives an opening for Unfettered to be passed along properly.

Ah I see.

But we still need to decide where to go next...

unless of course the DM has something in mind for us.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-24, 01:42 PM
But we still need to decide where to go next...

unless of course the DM has something in mind for us.

The DM has several possibilities in mind. This is a sandbox campaign (almost literally at the moment :smallwink:), so you can go to any of the minor temples next that you'd like or do something entirely different.

As for DrK's question in the IC thread, the plan was for you guys to escort the Wind Dervishes back to the Temple. How do you think your Grandmasters would react to a huge army of desert warriors asking nicely to be let into the Temple because they claim to have worked out an agreement with four Masters who are conveniently not there at the moment?

I suppose you could send them back with just Torog, and Koan can meet you wherever you are after Torog discovers that [REDACTED] and decides to [REDACTED] instead of rejoining you.

BelGareth
2012-10-24, 01:47 PM
The DM has several possibilities in mind. This is a sandbox campaign (almost literally at the moment :smallwink:), so you can go to any of the minor temples next that you'd like or do something entirely different.

As for DrK's question in the IC thread, the plan was for you guys to escort the Wind Dervishes back to the Temple. How do you think your Grandmasters would react to a huge army of desert warriors asking nicely to be let into the Temple because they claim to have worked out an agreement with four Masters who are conveniently not there at the moment?

I suppose you could send them back with just Torog, and Koan can meet you wherever you are after Torog discovers that [REDACTED] and decides to [REDACTED] instead of rejoining you.

Oh no, I was under the assumption we would return with them.

DrK
2012-10-24, 02:31 PM
Hey.

I'm happy to go wherever. Just sleep deprived so a bit confused and lost the track of things :smallsmile:
To be fair the Warforged is really hunting the enemy training dummies of the Tiger and Shadow schools.

Tekhead:- Is your AC correct? I don't think your armour has a max dex of +5

With homebrew stances....

DR 13/-, +7AC or Giant size? :smalleek: Are these not quite a leap in power compared to the existing ones or the powers that rest of us had access to? Is there homebrew Ironheart, Diamondmind or DesertWind that the rest of us can access to get the same level of power?
-Scaling natural armour as a level 1 stance :smalleek:
-Bonecrusher lost its saving throw
-Giant's stance gives more than one size increase :smalleek::smalleek:

- I would continue but this redone version is a magnitude more powerful than the existig ones. Its your called Pair'O'Dice but I don't think its fair for only 1 player to have access to such a relatively high powered option when the rest of us don't. Sorry Tekhead.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-24, 04:03 PM
Yeah, Tek, I've taken a look at your sheet and I have to agree with DrK on the power level. I think Endirare gave it a massive power-up since I bookmarked the thread. (EDIT: Yeah, my bookmark is version 1.2 and they're on 1.9 now. Lots of stuff added and buffed.)

I've looked back through my backed-up PMs and I didn't find a sheet link, just the background and a build skeleton. We're going to have to scale back the power level a lot, which will likely mean tweaking ToB Stone Dragon from scratch now that the original Endirare thread is so far out of date. I realize it's my fault for assuming that I had a handle on Revised Stone Dragon and not checking around for an updated version, but RSD 1.9 is out of line for this game.

Speaking of which, we never did finish respeccing Belcor. Carter, were you handling that yourself or did you want some more help with that?

TekHed
2012-10-24, 05:39 PM
*sigh*

It really sucks that I had to check this thread before heading to work, because now I am very annoyed, I won't be able to post a proper and thorough response for several hours when I get home, and it's kind of ruining my mood today.

DrK you are the last person who should be whining about power level...4 of 9 is easily the most powerful of all of us, even with the revised Stone Dragon. You greatly underestimate the power of the other disciplines...Stone Dragon was badly in need of a revision. In fact, it was the revised version that got me interested and it was pure awesome serendipitous coincidence that Dice of all people had an opening for a Stone Dragon specialist. If it were the canon Stone Dragon I'd not be interested at all.

Somehow I don't think you read the whole document, which clearly and elegantly justifies everything.

Also, Dice, in point of fact I linked you the correct version and you were fine with it, but again I'll need to wait until I get home to post a concise and annotated argument and find the relevant PMs.

For now however I'll say this...I remain cautiously optimistic because I have faith and trust in Dice, but I won't promise that I won't withdraw my participation if any changes are made to my character...like I said this has greatly upset me, which is counter to the whole point of gaming in the first place, and that it comes from DrK/4 of 9 has me even more irked.

Just had to ruin it for me didn't you? You, with the most powerful brokenish character here. Endarire's Stone Dragon is flawless in it's execution and *well* PEACH'd and justified...

Edit: Yep, just checked and the version I sent you from the very first PM I sent you inquiring about this game was v 1.9. It seems very disingenuous to suddenly have issues with it now after all this time, when before you were quite in favor of it.

Will post more detailed response to DrK later. Very very annoyed and frustrated.

BelGareth
2012-10-24, 06:04 PM
I don't mean to stoke any fires, but I don't think its fare to blame DrK, I have my concerns, which I took up with you privately, I have taken a look at all the characters, and your PC is easily the most powerful.

It wouldn't be hard at all to overshadow Belcor (who needs a respec and is getting one) and quite possibly Abd (even though he is a different role entirely). The fact of the matter is 4 of 9 is very similar, and while he is well built, he isn't close to doing as much damage in full round attack as Koan.

To be honest, I was a little worried about Koan, but once I learned that Pair'O'Dice had approved it all I was ok with it. But you must see, that Koan is by far the most powerful character here, whether or not that is because of the Stone power fix.

And I hope you do not quit if it is changed or reverted back to the published discipline...

DrK
2012-10-24, 06:05 PM
Well sorry you think 4of9 is broken. Though he uses only uses feats from CW, PHB 1+2 and Tome of Battle that are available to everyone. And does considerably less damage than the original Torog build.

My objection wasn't to your PC but your homebrew discipline that far outweighed the others. When you compared it to existing disciplines it was far in excess. Things like the increasing natural armour bonus from the level 1 stance when compared with other level 1 stances. The bonecrusher series retaining damage and giving no save effects.

I did read the whole document and thought like much homebrew its overpowered and some if the justification was to compete with high level casters, which in this game is not a factor.

mrcarter11
2012-10-24, 07:04 PM
Uh, I can probably do it myself. I might just remake him if you don't mind. Turn him into a warblade or the like. See how well that works I guess? I'll probably use Bel's post a little bit back. If anyone else has advice, your welcome to give it.

Quick note, can the full changes to character building be posted here, and not just linked to the first thread, but everything actually spelled out. I think that could be useful.

Lastly, am I the only one to find the mental image of a guy in heavy armor fighting with a rapier funny?

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-24, 07:15 PM
First of all: No one here is whining, or blaming, or ruining, or anything like that. We are all adults here (or so I would assume, given that most of you don't have ages in your profiles) and we can work this out like adults.


Also, Dice, in point of fact I linked you the correct version and you were fine with it, but again I'll need to wait until I get home to post a concise and annotated argument and find the relevant PMs.

[...]

Edit: Yep, just checked and the version I sent you from the very first PM I sent you inquiring about this game was v 1.9. It seems very disingenuous to suddenly have issues with it now after all this time, when before you were quite in favor of it.

I fully believe you that you sent me the latest version of RSD, no need for any annotations. Like I said, it's my fault that I assumed that the version of RSD I was familiar with and bookmarked hadn't been updated in the meantime; one of my RL players last semester was a White Raven/Stone Dragon warblade/deepstone sentinel, we used the version of RSD I had to good effect, and I didn't think to check for updates then either.

I'm not saying you should use ToB Stone Dragon at all, I'm just saying that diff-ing RSD 1.9 with ToB SD to figure out what's changed will be more annoying than if we had 1.2 posted somewhere to compare it to. We can keep the good tweaks in RSD (no ground-only restrictions, more interesting maneuvers) while reducing some numbers and adding some saves.

DrK is right that some of the higher-tier abilities are meant to compete with high-level spellcasters rather than high-level martial adepts, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily inherently overpowered; Bel is right that there's already a power imbalance in the party that needs to be addressed, but that doesn't mean we need to start accusing people of willful breakage; Tek is right that by-the-book Stone Dragon needs a facelift to make it more varied and more usable at higher levels, but that doesn't mean that the full RSD 1.9 treatment is right for this particular game.

Diplomacy check to make people calm down and talk things out: (1d20+DM)[∞]

BelGareth
2012-10-24, 10:47 PM
Well, I am sorry if I inflamed anyone, not my intent., just hope this can be settled and we can play, this is one of the best games I've played.

[successfully changed players attitude]

TekHed
2012-10-25, 12:53 AM
Haha, you always manage to turn my mood around Dice.

Let's take it one piece at a time, last to first:


I'm not saying you should use ToB Stone Dragon at all, I'm just saying that diff-ing RSD 1.9 with ToB SD to figure out what's changed will be more annoying than if we had 1.2 posted somewhere to compare it to. We can keep the good tweaks in RSD (no ground-only restrictions, more interesting maneuvers) while reducing some numbers and adding some saves.


Actually in the RSD thread it has a version history where we can track all of the changes and why they were made. None of them seem OP or out of hand to me.


DrK is right that some of the higher-tier abilities are meant to compete with high-level spellcasters rather than high-level martial adepts, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily inherently overpowered;

Indeed, and I would add to that, that while we are more or less straight martial adepts, it would seem you take more liberty with dips and such in the antagonists, which can make them pretty dangerous. Maybe not full caster dangerous, but dangerous enough.


Bel is right that there's already a power imbalance in the party that needs to be addressed, but that doesn't mean we need to start accusing people of willful breakage;

I don't mean willful breakage, but I believe that 4 of 9 is the toughest nut in this bunch. Stormguard Warrior+Robilar's Gambit AND a wand chamber of wraithstrike is one of the most potent combos I can think of. Add on top of that elusive target+ring of evasion+battle clarity AND Iron Heart's famous counters like Wall of Blades and Iron Heart Surge. In fact I would say that the strongest schools by far are Iron Heart Diamond Mind and Devoted Spirit. IMHO DrK has no room to complain about power level when he has 4 of 9.

Moving along.


Tek is right that by-the-book Stone Dragon needs a facelift to make it more varied and more usable at higher levels, but that doesn't mean that the full RSD 1.9 treatment is right for this particular game.


I fail to see how it is wrong. In fact, the latest version came out of extensive peer review by several others. It clarified or fixed glaring issues with the previous versions.

As to the balance issue, again I'll say it that Diamond Mind is probably hands-down the single most awesome discipline in the book, with the capstone maneuver that makes the other schools cry. Time Stands Still is just that good. It seems from what I have read that the issues with Belcor are A.) that MrCarter didn't have a solid grasp of his character's personality and motivations and B.) didn't understand how to build and play to Diamond Mind's strengths properly.

Now as for Desert Wind, it is widely considered, after the standard Stone Dragon to be the worst school, but in large part because fire resistance is so common among beasties. Less of an issue with more humanoid+class level opponents.


Well sorry you think 4of9 is broken. Though he uses only uses feats from CW, PHB 1+2 and Tome of Battle that are available to everyone. And does considerably less damage than the original Torog build.


A bit disingenuous don't you think? Spend a round making a bunch of touch attacks for SGW, then when your enemy attacks, use your Robilar's AoO to fuel Stormguard further, then shred your enemy using Wraithstrike on your second turn. When I saw 4 of 9's sheet my first thought was "whoa, wouldn't want to fight THAT guy." I was honestly surprised that you of all people would be the one to swing a nerd-bat in my direction...


And I hope you do not quit if it is changed or reverted back to the published discipline...


I very well might. I despise nerd-bats. It depends on what transpires, as I am very much jazzed and in love with my character in his current version. I spent a LOT of time tweaking to get him *just so.*


Tekhead:- Is your AC correct? I don't think your armour has a max dex of +5


yes it is correct. Nimbleness property, look into it/read closer my sheet.


DR 13/-, +7AC or Giant size? Are these not quite a leap in power compared to the existing ones or the powers that rest of us had access to? Is there homebrew Ironheart, Diamondmind or DesertWind that the rest of us can access to get the same level of power?


The other disciplines don't need fixing. Stone Dragon did. Don't go whining when you have a powerful character with one of the top 3 most powerful disciplines. The leap in power was over the widely disparaged suckiness of the original Stone Dragon, which no one with any sense ever paid any attention to. Endarire's work IMHO was a brilliant work of distilling the theme, making the abilities fun and interesting to use, and keeping everything level appropriate.



-Scaling natural armour as a level 1 stance


Key word: scaling. Ensuring level appropriateness.


-Bonecrusher lost its saving throw


Have you read any of the ToB handbooks? Many of the otherwise seemingly great maneuvers get slammed because they offer saves, especially Fort saves (most likely for Stone Dragon style)...in other words, rendering them largely USELESS and wastes of otherwise good actions...to the point that the handbooks recommend not even taking them at all....which represents a serious failure in game design.

Let's take a look at Bonecrusher. Level 3, so you are minimum 5th level. If it hits it becomes easier to crit a target...which isn't guaranteed to happen since someone has to hit AND roll a threat. As you know, combat in Dnd rarely lasts more than a few rounds.

Later, with Skullcrusher (a level 6, or 11th level minimum maneuver) it auto confirms crits (which still need to be rolled), which is level appropriate and theme-appropriate for the discipline. Do I really need to break down equivalent level maneuvers of the other schools to show their equivalent awesomeness?

Basically if they get a save it becomes not worth it. The save is built in in that the enemy still needs to hit AND roll a threat.


-Giant's stance gives more than one size increase


Again...level appropriate scaling is a good thing. To get the maximum benefit you have to have 18 ranks in Balance, which means level 15, which we are. It's high level play here, or did you forget that? Revised Giant's Stance and the other stances I'm particularly sensitive about. Add saves if you really need to (but then I may have to pick different maneuvers that will actually work because most of the Fort save ones are worthless as is), but if my stances get nerfed I'll probably just throw in the towel. You are stuck with your stances forever, meaning that unless they give you something worthwhile you end up never using them again, which again, is a failure of game design. If they don't scale you should be allowed to swap them out for higher level ones like maneuvers.

Anyways, that's my $0.02 cents.

Out of my love and reverence for Dice I'm willing to hear out what changes he would propose to make (with obvious skepticism), but I honestly don't believe that as is the RSD is broken. It seems quite on par with level 15 badassery, and the current version, again IMHO was a good improvement over the previous version.

Defense rests.

DrK
2012-10-25, 01:31 AM
I don't mean willful breakage, but I believe that 4 of 9 is the toughest nut in this bunch. Stormguard Warrior+Robilar's Gambit AND a wand chamber of wraithstrike is one of the most potent combos I can think of. Add on top of that elusive target+ring of evasion+battle clarity AND Iron Heart's famous counters like Wall of Blades and Iron Heart Surge. In fact I would say that the strongest schools by far are Iron Heart Diamond Mind and Devoted Spirit. IMHO DrK has no room to complain about power level when he has 4 of 9.

I am not denying that 4 is well built. Its the homebrew power disparity that I'm objecting to.




A bit disingenuous don't you think? Spend a round making a bunch of touch attacks for SGW, then when your enemy attacks, use your Robilar's AoO to fuel Stormguard further, then shred your enemy using Wraithstrike on your second turn. When I saw 4 of 9's sheet my first thought was "whoa, wouldn't want to fight THAT guy." I was honestly surprised that you of all people would be the one to swing a nerd-bat in my direction...


Aside from the fact I've not been using that option as I'm not a fan of it :smallsmile:




I very well might. I despise nerd-bats. It depends on what transpires, as I am very much jazzed and in love with my character in his current version. I spent a LOT of time tweaking to get him *just so.*

Changes in the maneuvres won't change the overall character.





yes it is correct. Nimbleness property, look into it/read closer my sheet.


that was me being stupid sorry. I've the same bl**dy armour. I should have know better!




The other disciplines don't need fixing. Stone Dragon did. Don't go whining when you have a powerful character with one of the top 3 most powerful disciplines. The leap in power was over the widely disparaged suckiness of the original Stone Dragon, which no one with any sense ever paid any attention to. Endarire's work IMHO was a brilliant work of distilling the theme, making the abilities fun and interesting to use, and keeping everything level appropriate.

Key word: scaling. Ensuring level appropriateness.



Have you read any of the ToB handbooks? Many of the otherwise seemingly great maneuvers get slammed because they offer saves, especially Fort saves (most likely for Stone Dragon style)...in other words, rendering them largely USELESS and wastes of otherwise good actions...to the point that the handbooks recommend not even taking them at all....which represents a serious failure in game design.

Let's take a look at Bonecrusher. Level 3, so you are minimum 5th level. If it hits it becomes easier to crit a target...which isn't guaranteed to happen since someone has to hit AND roll a threat. As you know, combat in Dnd rarely lasts more than a few rounds.

Later, with Skullcrusher (a level 6, or 11th level minimum maneuver) it auto confirms crits (which still need to be rolled), which is level appropriate and theme-appropriate for the discipline. Do I really need to break down equivalent level maneuvers of the other schools to show their equivalent awesomeness?

Basically if they get a save it becomes not worth it. The save is built in in that the enemy still needs to hit AND roll a threat.

Again...level appropriate scaling is a good thing. To get the maximum benefit you have to have 18 ranks in Balance, which means level 15, which we are. It's high level play here, or did you forget that? Revised Giant's Stance and the other stances I'm particularly sensitive about. Add saves if you really need to (but then I may have to pick different maneuvers that will actually work because most of the Fort save ones are worthless as is), but if my stances get nerfed I'll probably just throw in the towel. You are stuck with your stances forever, meaning that unless they give you something worthwhile you end up never using them again, which again, is a failure of game design. If they don't scale you should be allowed to swap them out for higher level ones like maneuvers.

The issue I have is that scaling and no save are not options for any of the other PCs in the game. The armour boosting stance grants you a +7 AC for a level 1 stance - similar stance for Diamond Mind gives a +2 to one opponent and -2VS all others and both are level 1.

THe DR13 stance is a low level and impressive compared to the level8! Iron heart stance that gives DR5/-

All 8 other schools offer saving throws for their effects. Yes its a weakness for them but them's the breaks. And in the RSD you have moves doing damage + additional effects.

Its not that I think scaling effects are a bad thing however you can't have that for only 1 school and not for the others. If there were revised IH,DW and DM for the rest of the players it would be different. But its not. Homebrew is as normal - power creep justified against "caster power creep". Which in this game is not an issue as there no PC casters to re-order reality.

Also Stione Dragon was not a bad discipline. In terms of combat effectiveness 9which is what this game is really about) it is far better than Setting Sun or Shadowhand. Particularly as the latter while having lots of ability score/debuffing moves has a relatively low DC saving throw (level + Wis Mod) on all of them.

TekHed
2012-10-25, 02:19 AM
It depends...Bonesplitting strike does 2 Con damage, no save. If you read the handbooks you will see that just about every save-offering maneuver is recommended against.

Look at the design philosophy of the RSD...DR/damage/fatigue/con damage/critical hits are it's main schticks. It *should* be better than the other disciplines in it's areas of expertise. Setting Sun pwns everyone with it's throws. Diamond Mind for damage and counters, Desert Wind for Area Effect. Like I said, I would be begrudgingly willing to add some saves in where appropriate but if I lose my defensive abilities like DR or AC or Giant's Stance gets nerfed at all, I am going to be an unhappy camper.

Also, I despise nerfbats not nerd bats...damn you auto correct! I love my nerd bats!!!1one!

TekHed
2012-10-25, 03:36 AM
So I just went through the changelog between v 1.6 (the one Dice said he was cool with before) and 1.9...none of the changes do anything to bone/skullcrusher. A couple of the stances are modified but not in major ways. The DR one was changed to be /- at level 10. Overall though the changes between 1.6 and 1.9 all seem quite reasonable and hardly address the things you are having an issue with DrK. In other words, if Dice was already okay with 1.6, you would still have much of the same issues with it. And again, IMHO the refinements in the last few revisions were good and warranted.

Now I'll just wait to hear what Dice thinks should be done...

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-25, 04:06 AM
So I just went through the changelog between v 1.6 (the one Dice said he was cool with before) and 1.9...none of the changes do anything to bone/skullcrusher.
[...]
Now I'll just wait to hear what Dice thinks should be done...

1.2 is the one I'm familiar with. I'll try to dig up the copy of that my group used, but a quick search of my laptop makes me think it's sitting on my external hard drive back on the East Coast. Regardless, I'm going to sleep now, I'll go through 1.9 and the changelog tomorrow and get back to you.

TekHed
2012-10-25, 04:10 AM
Yeah 1.2 is really out of date by now...

DrK
2012-10-25, 03:59 PM
It depends...Bonesplitting strike does 2 Con damage, no save. If you read the handbooks you will see that just about every save-offering maneuver is recommended against.

Look at the design philosophy of the RSD...DR/damage/fatigue/con damage/critical hits are it's main schticks. It *should* be better than the other disciplines in it's areas of expertise. Setting Sun pwns everyone with it's throws. Diamond Mind for damage and counters, Desert Wind for Area Effect. Like I said, I would be begrudgingly willing to add some saves in where appropriate but if I lose my defensive abilities like DR or AC or Giant's Stance gets nerfed at all, I am going to be an unhappy camper.

!

I don't really bother with what handbooks say. Moves are moves are should be balanced again one another.

In this case nearly every stance is massively overpowered comapred to all other discipline stances. - same can be said for strikes but stances are particulay offensive in terms of bad homebrew power creep.

- Also note the Stone Dragon expert can now do all his moves while flying as he no longer has to be on the ground.

Level 1: Scaling natural armour is better defensively than any other stance in the ToB and in this game where Amulets of natural armour don't exist its even better

Level 3: Giants stance that scales. Compare a stance that gives ~ +6d6 damage per hit to the other level stances of say +2d6 sneak, +2AC etc... How is this balanced?

Level 3: Roots of the mountain - an entangle affect on every hit? ANd with ranged weapons? Something that no ToB move affects

Level 3: Stoneheart stance: DR = Initator level. COme on! DR 5 when you can access it and then DR "lots" later in the game. It again pees all over all other stances and the other DR/ stance in the game is a level 8 effect and has DR5

Level 5: Avalanche stanc: Direct damage boost that is again better than any other damage boosting stances.

Level 5: Wearying stance: A no save fatigue on every hit, melee and ranged! 2 hits and you're exhausted. No save. Can you even claim this is reasonable?

Level 6: Reaching branch stance. Better than the existing Diamond mind (I think? - Dancing blade form) one that gives you reach but only on your goes. While this gives you actual reach. For no reason.

Level 6: Strength of Stone: reduced fomr level 8 to level 6 for no real reason

Level 8... Well Reverberating stance: You are immune to magic, rays, missile affects and AoE magic. Total piss take.

TekHed
2012-10-25, 04:51 PM
God, but your whining is grating on me. It's like you want to be the baddest and no one else can be good. Yeah it's good...it's supposed to be good at what it does, just like the other disciplines are good at what they do.

From the RSD:


"Tome of Battle's Stone Dragon emphasizes CON damage, overcoming DR & hardness, and granting DR. Also, Stone Dragon feels like the smallest discipline.

My redesign philosophy adds physical damage, fatigue & exhaustion, bull rushing, overrunning, and boosts."

To which I'll add, that Stone Dragon is supposed to be THE direct damage dealing discipline. In other words, if straight raw damaging strikes are what you want, it's stone dragon you should take hands down.


Level 1: Scaling natural armour is better defensively than any other stance in the ToB and in this game where Amulets of natural armour don't exist its even better

Since when do amulets of natural armor not exist? You can buy one with your WBL if you want.


Level 3: Giants stance that scales. Compare a stance that gives ~ +6d6 damage per hit to the other level stances of say +2d6 sneak, +2AC etc... How is this balanced?


Again, this is what Stone Dragon is SUPPOSED to be good at...raw damage and grappling. +6d6 damage, at level 15 is level appropriate.

From the Crusader's Handbbook:


Giantís Stance:Like most other Stone Dragon stances, you canít move more than 5 feet with this on. Other flaws include capping at Large size, and the existence of (Greater) Mighty Wallop, Strongarm Bracers, and actual size increases. This is a terrible pick.


Red: Bad. Stay away from these.



Level 3: Roots of the mountain - an entangle affect on every hit? ANd with ranged weapons? Something that no ToB move affects

I'm not taking this maneuver so I have no comment.


Level 3: Stoneheart stance: DR = Initator level. COme on! DR 5 when you can access it and then DR "lots" later in the game. It again pees all over all other stances and the other DR/ stance in the game is a level 8 effect and has DR5

...which is pathetic and needed to be changed. DR 5 is pathetic for a level 8 maneuver/stance. Again, DR is what Stone Dragon is SUPPOSED to excel at. Are you really so jealous???


Level 5: Avalanche stanc: Direct damage boost that is again better than any other damage boosting stances.

Level 5: Wearying stance: A no save fatigue on every hit, melee and ranged! 2 hits and you're exhausted. No save. Can you even claim this is reasonable?


Not taking these so I won't comment.


Level 6: Reaching branch stance. Better than the existing Diamond mind (I think? - Dancing blade form) one that gives you reach but only on your goes. While this gives you actual reach. For no reason.


Not for no reason. Because it's useful. Are YOU the only one who gets nice toys DrK??? Do you see me whining "BUT NO ONE ELSE GETS THE ABILITY TO DEFLECT RAYS OR OVERCOME *ANY* NEGATIVE EFFECT WITH IHS!!! FOUL! FOUL!"


Level 6: Strength of Stone: reduced fomr level 8 to level 6 for no real reason

It needed to be lower. It was too high as it was. Between my armor and Unfettered, I'll have 100% fortification next level anyways, that can't be bypassed by precision damage so I'm not taking it.


Level 8... Well Reverberating stance: You are immune to magic, rays, missile affects and AoE magic. Total piss take.

To a limited degree...as an 8th level stance. Yeah, seems right.


Now I went ahead and looked through the change log. Here are the differences between 1.2 and 1.9 that will have bearing on me (either because I currently have these maneuvers/stances, or plan to) Level of maneuver/stance in parentheses:


1.3 (September 1, 2010)
MANEUVERS
-Echoing Strike (8): Added. Now, you can use 1 more martial strike in a turn!

1.4 (September 11, 2010)
MANEUVERS
-Charging Minotaur (1): It's "bull rush attempt" not "bull rush attack."
-Mudslide (3): Specifically works with ranged or melee attacks.
-Colossus Strike (8): Specified that you must have a swift action to use Boulder Roll with Colossus Strike.

STANCES
-Giant's Stance (3): You count as +2 size categories with 13 Balance ranks and +3 size categories with 18 Balance ranks.

1.5 (September 13, 2010)
MANEUVERS
-Stone Dragon's Wisdom (5): Removed all references of this being a boost. Now it's a counter. Really!
-Adamantine Bones (8): Now, even if you miss, you get DR 20/adamantine* and 50% fortification until the start of your next turn.

1.6 (September 22, 2010)
MANEUVERS
-Colossus Strike (7): Clarified how knockback works with damage reduction.
-Echoing Strike (8): Clarified that Echoing Strike and the extra strike are expended. Also added optional prereq maneuvers.
-Obdurium Vise (9): Now it prevents all actions.

1.7 (October 1, 2010)
MANEUVERS
-Boulder Roll (4): Clarified that it automatically knocks the target prone, mounted or not.
-Deep Fissure (4): Added. Now, auto-confirm crits and overcome DR with this boost!
-Exhausting Strike (5): It's back! It auto-exhausts on hit.
-Stone Dragon's Wisdom (5): It's a boost again. It should have always remained a boost. Now, it lasts until the start of your next turn. Also added a clause about it affecting special attacks like grapples and bull rushes. Also, clarified that it doesn't let you reroll damage.
-Adamantine Bones (7): Added energy resistance and immunity. DR is now DR/-.
-Ancient Mountain Hammer (7): Changed this to be a swift action instead of a standard action.
-Echoing Strike (8): Clarified wording. Now, Echoing Strike and its partner strike take the same swift action.
-Obdurium Vise (9): The Giant in the Playground version finally prevents all actions. All versions also prevent interplanar travel.

1.8 (March 20, 2011)
MANEUVERS
-Boulder Roll (2): Reduced its level from 4. Now it's worth using!
-Mudslide (3): Removed Reflex half. (Not sure what that meant.) Also changed range to See Text since it can be used with ranged attacks.
-Deep Fissure (4): Deep Fissure now lasts until the start of the next round on your turn.

-Stone Dragon's Wisdom (5): Now, the "roll twice and take either result" also applies to crit confirmations. This was intended, but not clearly stated. Also, it's now four benefits, not three.

-Colossus Strike (7): Upped the distance to 2d6x10 feet from 2d4x5 feet. C'mon, it's a level 7 maneuver! FORE!

-Elder Tombstone Sweep (8): Added a note to exclude any number of targets within melee reach.
STANCES
-Stoneheart Stance (3): At initiator level 10, you may instead treat this DR as DR/-.
-Reverberating Stance (8): Let's reflect some targeted magic and psionic attacks! Whatchya think?

1.9 (March 28, 2011)
MANEUVERS
-Colossus Strike (7): Clarified its interaction with interposing barriers.

STANCES
-Reaching Branch Stance (6): Now level 6, down from 8.

Now, I am going to say this as nicely as I can given my mood, and please DrK, don't take this personal...after all this is the internet and I don't really know you...but you are REALLY upsetting me, and I would ask you to kindly please STHU, and let Dice decide.

Again, it was this RSD (1.9) that I found that made me want to jump in in the first place. If too much of the spoilered above is nerfed/changed, it will make me disinclined to participate further. Of course, for all I know DrK, that would please you just fine, since only you get the nice toys to play with.

For the sake of saving myself any more aggravation DrK, please don't respond to me, or comment further on this matter until Dice weighs in on the above, and I either am approved for play or not.

IF I am approved and decide I still want to proceed after any changes, let things be happy and joyful between us. IN the meantime, you've made your position clear, so can you zip it and let Dice be the DM?

DrK
2012-10-25, 05:08 PM
God, but your whining is grating on me. It's like you want to be the baddest and no one else can be good. Yeah it's good...it's supposed to be good at what it does, just like the other disciplines are good at what they do.

I don't care if my character is best or worst. I had no problems with Torog laying the 100+ hit smack down. Its overpowered and unbalanced homebrew I object to.



Since when do amulets of natural armor not exist? You can buy one with your WBL if you want.

Its in the game set up. We got better stats etc... in exchange for not getting standard deflection/stat boost/nat armour/cloak resistance.





...which is pathetic and needed to be changed. DR 5 is pathetic for a level 8 maneuver/stance. Again, DR is what Stone Dragon is SUPPOSED to excel at. Are you really so jealous???

Not for no reason. Because it's useful. Are YOU the only one who gets nice toys DrK??? Do you see me whining "BUT NO ONE ELSE GETS THE ABILITY TO DEFLECT RAYS OR OVERCOME *ANY* NEGATIVE EFFECT WITH IHS!!! FOUL! FOUL!"

It is nothing to do what my PC can or cannot do. Its an objection to homebrew that ups the power and is far in excess of what any other Tome Battle discipline can do. Its just badly written homebrew in a system that doesn't need any.

You can ask Belgarath about my views on homebrew. Its not unique to this thread. And this is what my objection stems from.

mrcarter11
2012-10-25, 05:47 PM
Not that I have any real opinion on this. But couldn't we just always take the age old route, of let Tek play as is for now, and if things start seeming out of place, then we begin to nerf down. Perhaps all this will be proven moot later and Tek's PC will fit in and fight on equal ground with us, at which time, this whole thing wasn't needed. If his PC outhits and outlasts and just generally is better, then we can start toning him down.

On another note, Dice, I wanted to make sure I was good to totally revamp my sheet?

TekHed
2012-10-25, 06:50 PM
Its in the game set up. We got better stats etc... in exchange for not getting standard deflection/stat boost/nat armour/cloak resistance.


Which sets a cap on defense. It then makes even MORE sense for a discipline that focuses on hardcore rocklike defense to have a way to go above that normal cap.


It is nothing to do what my PC can or cannot do. Its an objection to homebrew that ups the power and is far in excess of what any other Tome Battle discipline can do. Its just badly written homebrew in a system that doesn't need any.

You can ask Belgarath about my views on homebrew. Its not unique to this thread. And this is what my objection stems from.


Funny, in my opinion it is some of the best written ToB homebrew I've seen, and I've seen most of it.

Then again, I am a fan of the charop boards and The Gaming Den so it would seem we have a fundamental difference of opinion on game design and what is and is not good homebrew.

The question becomes, can we still play together or are you going to continue to have a conniption fit? I'd like to play this character, in this game, as close as possible to the way he is now. I will be sad if I don't get to play him, but I'd rather not play him than play with normal Stone Dragon, or a version of the homebrew that inspired me in the first place, that is overly changed. I can handle some saving throws, but changing the stances overmuch is going to drive me away.

Keep in mind that stances carry an opportunity cost. I can either be in offense-damage-dealing/grapple mode, be in armored mode, damage tanking mode, or big reach mode, but not all at the same time. My default will be offense...if I start taking heavy hits I switch to defense, if that is not enough to keep me from getting hit, I go into tanking mode. Reaching is situational.

And yes, the idea is that Koan will be the hardest hitter/toughest tank in the group, but that is a perfectly viable role to play, and frankly is my favorite one to play. That is what Stone Dragon to me is all about...laying down the smack and being able to take it as easy as he dishes it out.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-27, 06:14 PM
All right, I've looked through RSD 1.9 and have decided on the changes to be made. First, though, I missed mrcarter's posts before:


Uh, I can probably do it myself. I might just remake him if you don't mind. Turn him into a warblade or the like.
[...]
On another note, Dice, I wanted to make sure I was good to totally revamp my sheet?

Go ahead.


Quick note, can the full changes to character building be posted here, and not just linked to the first thread, but everything actually spelled out. I think that could be useful.

The Big 16, copied from the now-disappeared recruitment thread:
1. What game system are you running?
2. What 'type' or variant of game will it be? What is the setting for the game?

D&D 3.5, set two years after the fall of the Temple of the Nine Swords.

3. How many Players are you looking for? Will you be taking alternates, and if so, how many?

I'm taking 4 players; I will keep 2 players in reserve in case people drop, but since their characters will have to have the same discipline focus as the character they're replacing, alternate characters may need to be tweaked if that comes up.

4. What's the gaming medium (OOTS, chat, e-mail etc.)?

Here on the PbP forums.

5. What is the characters' starting status (i.e. experience level)?
6. How much gold or other starting funds will the characters begin with?

15th level, with 100,000gp to spend. No more than 1/2 may be spent on a single item. See Houserules, below, as well.

You also possess the legacy weapon of your chosen discipline, with all of the rituals unlocked. You do not take any of the associated penalties for wielding it, because (A) you're masters of the discipline, you're Just That Good and (B) the idea of imposing penalties for those weapons is a crappy one to begin with.

7. Are there any particular character classes, professions, orders, etc. that you want... or do not want? What are your rules on 'prestige' and/or homebrewed classes?

You must take at least 2/3 your levels in one of the martial adept base classes or ToB prestige classes. Other classes are certainly allowed (e.g. a few levels of fighter for complementary feats or a level or two of wizard for JPM) but the build should really remain focused around the ToB side of things and you should have a good reason for going outside the martial adept classes.

You may request homebrew base classes and PrCs or houserule tweaks to classes/feats/disciplines/etc. No homebrew disciplines will be allowed; there are 9 and only 9 disciplines in this game. I'd prefer if you stuck to the base 3 classes, but if you must go with a different base class you can request it. No homebrew PrCs that don't at least partially advance maneuvers or have something to do with maneuvers will be allowed.

8. What races, subraces, species, etc. are allowed for your game? Will you allow homebrewed races or species? 'Prestige' races or species?

Any official races are allowed. No homebrew races.

9. By what method should Players generate their attributes/ability scores and Hit Points?

32 point buy, max HP at first level and average HP thereafter.

10. Does your game use alignment? What are your restrictions, if so?

Alignment really only matters for Devoted Spirit and Crusaders; this game is more "our temple vs. their temple" than good vs. evil or law vs. chaos.

11. Do you allow multi-classing, or have any particular rules in regards to it?

Go wild, keeping in mind the above restrictions on your build. There is no multiclassing XP penalty.

12. Will you be doing all of the die rolling during the course of the game? Will die rolls be altered, or left to the honor system? If players can make die rolls, which ones do they make, how should they make the rolls, and how should they report them?

Use the forum dice roller. You make your rolls, I'll make NPC rolls, though I might make some hidden rolls for you or roll saves and such to save time.

13. Are there any homebrewed or optional/variant rules that your Players should know about? If so, list and explain them, or provide relevant links to learn about these new rules.

You must take all possible maneuvers for your discipline before taking maneuvers outside your discipline, when choosing maneuvers granted by your class; Martial Study and Martial Stance can let you pick up maneuvers outside that discipline, as normal.

Shields apply their AC bonus to touch AC and Reflex saves as well.

We're using a modified defense bonus. Add half the listed defense bonus for your class (warblades and crusaders use column D, swordsages use column B) as a deflection bonus to AC and increase whatever armor bonus to AC you have by the remainder. Thus, anyone with at least 1 level in a non-barbarian full-BAB class has +5 deflection and +6 improvement to armor at start, while a pure swordsage or swordsage/barbarian has +4 deflection and +4 improvement to armor at start.

To try to emphasize that you're Just That Good martial adepts, the following changes are made to feats and ability boosts:
--Everyone gains 2 bonus feats at 1st level (like flaws, but without the downside!) and gains feats at every odd level instead of every 3rd level after that.
--The Big 6 items (items granting enhancement bonuses to ability scores, resistance bonuses to saves, enhancement or deflection or natural armor bonuses to AC, and enhancement bonuses to attack) no longer have those functions. Instead, you gain +1 to each ability score at every even level, which roughly approximates these bonuses while making you more all-around competent. Any bonuses of these sorts that the legacy weapons grant are now typed as sacred bonuses, so you still get them.

14. Is a character background required? If so, how big? Are you looking for anything in particular (i.e. the backgrounds all ending up with the characters in the same city)?

Explain how you came to the Temple originally, how/why you survived the Battle of the Nine Swords, anything relating to why you chose your discipline, and general history/personalty. Anything beyond that is up to you.

15. Does your game involve a lot of hack & slash, puzzle solving, roleplaying, or a combination of the above?

I'll attempt to make the game roughly half intrigue/exploration/RPing (countering the opposing Temple's agents, finding the whereabouts of the other Swords and retrieving them, etc.) and half combat (mostly against classed NPCs of the opposing Temple, though there will be monsters as well), but that obviously can change based on your actions.

16. Are your Players restricted to particular rulebooks and supplements, or will you be allowing access to non-standard material? What sources can Players use for their characters?

Subject to the restrictions above, all official 3e sources are open, including Dragon magazine and setting books (though please de-flavor the setting-specific stuff).

As for the tweaks to RSD for this game:
Mountain Skin Stance gives a flat +3 natural armor bonus to AC again. You'd only be getting a +3 or so over an amulet of natural armor at this level anyway.
The DR and energy resistance from Stoneheart Stance, Adamantine Bones, and other maneuvers is halved. Too much DR or resistance in a game primarily involving classed NPCs obsoletes too many fighting styles.
Giant's Stance stops at +2 size categories. You don't need more than that against mostly Medium and Large humanoids.
Mudslide and other maneuvers that can apply to ranged attacks work with melee attacks only. Stone Dragon is not a ranged and mobile discipline.
Exhausting Strike allows a Fort save to reduce exhausted to fatigued.
Stone Dragon's Wisdom allows you to reroll 1 normal attack roll, not all of them until your next turn; the other rerolls last the normal duration. Rerolling a full attack is a very powerful ability.
Bonecrusher and other maneuvers that deal +Xd6 extra damage do not multiply it on a crit. There's no reason to break the "multiply constants, don't multiply dice" rule here.
Those tweaks don't change the feel of RSD but they do bring the power level more into line for the altered baseline assumptions of this particular game.

Now, as mrcarter suggested and as I had planned, we are going to play RSD with these tweaks and see how it goes. I reserve the right to make further alterations during the game if necessary. Everyone involved will treat the other players with respect; I don't care if you secretly hate each other, as long as you're posting in this game you will at least treat each other with courtesy. Tek, remember that you were recruited to fill a hole in this group and you need to adjust your character to the existing group rather than the other way around, and please refrain from talking about "whining" or "conniption fits" or similar.

We'll give mrcarter another few days to revise Belcor, and in the meantime for the love of Pelor at least pretend to get along.

TekHed
2012-10-28, 12:50 AM
As for the tweaks to RSD for this game:
Mountain Skin Stance gives a flat +3 natural armor bonus to AC again. You'd only be getting a +3 or so over an amulet of natural armor at this level anyway.

Under the justification section of Mountain Skin, it mentions that the +1/3 IL is minor but makes it a better contender for mid-game. Do you really think +3 AC is enough to make a difference in whether I am hit or not, at this level (and thus making it worthy of using, as opposed to just languishing unused?


The DR and energy resistance from Stoneheart Stance, Adamantine Bones, and other maneuvers is halved. Too much DR or resistance in a game primarily involving classed NPCs obsoletes too many fighting styles.


Energy Resistance I can understand as 2xIL may be a bit much (though on second thought not really considering it's a strike that gives it to you for one round only and at CL 13 minimum, and at high level energy attacks can do a lot of damage (as we just saw) with no other defense against them.)

However, halving DR is another thing...that makes Adamantine Bones even less potent than it is in the TOB.

A quote from the Crusader's Handbook:

Adamantine Bones: DR 20/Adamantine is great. Or, rather, it would have been a few levels ago. Combined with Steely Resolve and Stone Power, this still deserves mention. Thatís really the only problem with this line, is that the levels are too high. Maybe WotC had a typo.


RSD lowered it to level 7 and made it DR/- which helps. For clarity let's look at the upper limit of what I could potentially have, with your modification:

Armor: DR 3/-
Stoneheart Stance DR 6/-
Adamantine Bones DR 10/-


Total, DR 19/- at this level. I suppose that is still decent. Considering Adamantine Bones is one round only and not reliable, I will have DR 9/- consistently if I want it...still seems very low for this level.

At level 19 with you allowing Unfettered's Stoneskin to stack, I could have DR 22/- or 32/- with Adamantine Bones...still seems low for level 19.

Would you consider halving the Stoneheart Stance, and Energy Resistance from (substance) bones, but keeping the DR for the strikes intact?

My main gripe I suppose is that only being able to be in one stance at a time means it always behooves me to be in the best stance for the situation. Just in the way that it is better to spend an action attempting to do more damage, than it is to spend that action casting a healing spell (because enemies will dish it out faster than it can be healed), in most circumstances it makes more sense for me to stay in Giant's stance to be more offensive and do more damage, than it is to try and soak more damage...if the damage dealing ability of the enemy is going to outstrip my DR.

I ask this question honestly not knowing. Before, with full IL DR it is obvious that it gives me a clear defensive advantage when I need it. At half effectiveness I'm not so sure, and having Stone and Iron Bones makes them a complete non-option. Just saying. You probably have a better idea of how much damage things are doing, and if it's worth it to take it as one of my precious few stances, and use it as one of my precious options...


Giant's Stance stops at +2 size categories. You don't need more than that against mostly Medium and Large humanoids.

Eh, fair enough. It only drops me down 2d6 and -4 on grappling so I'm not too sad on this.


Mudslide and other maneuvers that can apply to ranged attacks work with melee attacks only. Stone Dragon is not a ranged and mobile discipline.


This on the other hand does make me sad. I was so looking forward to tripping fools with my bow... :smallannoyed:


Exhausting Strike allows a Fort save to reduce exhausted to fatigued.


Hmm...in that case I might look into taking Wearying stance as well...can we keep that as being no save (keeping in mind the justification that wizards get no save waves of fatigue, and ray of exhaustion)?


Stone Dragon's Wisdom allows you to reroll 1 normal attack roll, not all of them until your next turn; the other rerolls last the normal duration. Rerolling a full attack is a very powerful ability.


This seems fair and wise (pun intended).


Bonecrusher and other maneuvers that deal +Xd6 extra damage do not multiply it on a crit. There's no reason to break the "multiply constants, don't multiply dice" rule here.


Also fair.


Those tweaks don't change the feel of RSD but they do bring the power level more into line for the altered baseline assumptions of this particular game.

Everyone involved will treat the other players with respect; I don't care if you secretly hate each other, as long as you're posting in this game you will at least treat each other with courtesy. Tek, remember that you were recruited to fill a hole in this group and you need to adjust your character to the existing group rather than the other way around, and please refrain from talking about "whining" or "conniption fits" or similar.

We'll give mrcarter another few days to revise Belcor, and in the meantime for the love of Pelor at least pretend to get along.

As I said, my annoyance is not personal, but it was quite real and I felt the need to communicate it. I'm not holding any grudges or anything, and am happy to get along going forward both IC and OOC from here on out. I did feel it was necessary to match the vehemence of DrK's objections with my own position, which is why it came out that way.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-28, 03:00 AM
Under the justification section of Mountain Skin, it mentions that the +1/3 IL is minor but makes it a better contender for mid-game. Do you really think +3 AC is enough to make a difference in whether I am hit or not, at this level (and thus making it worthy of using, as opposed to just languishing unused?

The reason +3 isn't really good enough in most games is that you'll have a +3 amulet of natural armor by mid levels, making it completely superfluous. If you spend gold on the Big 6 stuff before anything else and keep up with upgrades, you should have a +3 to +5 in all categories by level 15, so with 3+IL/3 coming out to +8 at this level you'd only be getting roughly +3 over the natural armor bonus anyway. Given that most items that grant an armor bonus aren't available in this game, a +3 that stacks with your defense bonus is still useful.


Energy Resistance I can understand as 2xIL may be a bit much (though on second thought not really considering it's a strike that gives it to you for one round only and at CL 13 minimum, and at high level energy attacks can do a lot of damage (as we just saw) with no other defense against them.)

However, halving DR is another thing...that makes Adamantine Bones even less potent than it is in the TOB.
[...]
Total, DR 19/- at this level. I suppose that is still decent. Considering Adamantine Bones is one round only and not reliable, I will have DR 9/- consistently if I want it...still seems very low for this level.

At level 19 with you allowing Unfettered's Stoneskin to stack, I could have DR 22/- or 32/- with Adamantine Bones...still seems low for level 19.

Would you consider halving the Stoneheart Stance, and Energy Resistance from (substance) bones, but keeping the DR for the strikes intact?

[...]

I ask this question honestly not knowing. Before, with full IL DR it is obvious that it gives me a clear defensive advantage when I need it. At half effectiveness I'm not so sure, and having Stone and Iron Bones makes them a complete non-option. Just saying. You probably have a better idea of how much damage things are doing, and if it's worth it to take it as one of my precious few stances, and use it as one of my precious options...

Again, in a generic game the DR 5 to 10 that most abilities grant is not very useful for a tank-y character because you're either going up against tons of natural attacks or abilities that ignore HP. A Gargantuan dragon, a "boss monster" at these levels, does an average of 116 damage per round over 8 attacks after Power Attacking for 5 (and they should be PAing for about that much, because most of the time that dragon's attack bonus is within a few points of a tank's AC), for instance, so even if you have DR 5 dropping that to 76 per round, it can still kill your average 15th-level 24-Con fighter in 2-3 rounds with average rolls, or closer to 1-2 if it uses its breath weapon or just rolls lucky--and that's before debuffs or anything that would help it kill you faster.

However, if you look at classed NPCs (or even the characters in this party) you're either doing an average damage of 20-30 damage per attack with 3-4 attacks or 10-20 damage with 6-8 attacks, all of those with much lower attack bonuses and iterative attack penalties--and that's your primary means of attack. To use some familiar examples, DR 20 renders Master 1 from the last fight useless if he can't get sneak attack, completely and utterly shuts down Master 2 (his average damage against AC 37 goes from 157.5 per round to 7.5 per round), requires Master 3 to rely entirely on spells, reduces Master 4 to fire damage only (so fire resistance 20 shuts her down as well), and so on.

The higher your DR goes in this campaign, the less variation in enemy builds I can use and still be challenging and--more importantly--interesting. I'm deliberately branching out from pure martial adepts with the "named" NPCs so that as you defeat them you show the NPCs that pure martial skill, working together, is superior to "cheap" magic+martial skill or impure devotion to martial pursuits...but if the NPCs all need Power Attack stacking or high burst damage to threaten Koan, I either need to build them specifically to take out Koan (not a good plan, and not fair to anyone) or keep building them normally and have them either not threaten Koan (which makes things boring) or threaten him by non-HP means (which makes investment in high HP and damage mitigation irrelevant).

So, long story short, take your consistent DR 9/-- and be happy with it. :smallwink:


Hmm...in that case I might look into taking Wearying stance as well...can we keep that as being no save (keeping in mind the justification that wizards get no save waves of fatigue, and ray of exhaustion)?

1) Wizards? What wizards? I highly doubt you're going to see anyone with spells above 5th level; you need to stop comparing yourself to a hypothetical full caster that doesn't exist in this campaign.

2) Again, the classed NPC issue. If you can give a melee-focused baddie -6 Str and Con and halve his movement, that's much more powerful here than normal. To use the Dervish Masters as an example again, they went for finesse over power and so all had a Con of between 16 and 20 with primarily d6/d8 HD classes. Hit one of those guys with exhaustion and you halve their HP, on top of rendering the dervish, charger, and wall of fire guy ineffective.

The stance keeps the save.

TekHed
2012-10-28, 04:01 AM
Ah, ok, thank you for explaining it all to me. The only thing I would say is that fatigued/exhausted give a penalty to str and dex, not con.

Save is 10+ML+Str mod right?

mrcarter11
2012-10-28, 04:06 AM
I'm working all this week, until next Friday, so I'm not sure how soon I'll have that sheet up. I'll try to get it done through the week though.
Generic +10 masterwork items are okay, I assume?

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-28, 04:40 AM
Ah, ok, thank you for explaining it all to me. The only thing I would say is that fatigued/exhausted give a penalty to str and dex, not con.

I have no idea why I was thinking Con there. :smallconfused: Still, Dex is almost worse than Con for the Dervish Masters since most of them were low-Str Weapon Finesse types, so they'd lose attack, damage, and AC from it.


Save is 10+ML+Str mod right?

Right.


I'm working all this week, until next Friday, so I'm not sure how soon I'll have that sheet up. I'll try to get it done through the week though.
Generic +10 masterwork items are okay, I assume?

The masterwork item is fine. Don't worry about getting things done immediately, since we're not jumping right into another combat scene, but I did want to give you some time to work on the basic build skeleton since your choice of skills, items, and some utility maneuvers can make a difference outside of combat.

TekHed
2012-10-28, 04:47 AM
I seem to recall something from the recruitment thread (not past of the 16) that mentioned fighting the occasional monster. I hope that we get too.

mrcarter11
2012-10-28, 10:25 AM
Dice, just for my own curiosity, are we allowed to request homebrew PrC's?
It mentions it in the 16, but I didn't know if we were allowed to or not.

EDIT: Not that it matters in terms of the game, but can anyone explain how someone would use a rapier with two hands? I took fencing in high school, and I'm just not seeing it..

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-28, 01:04 PM
I seem to recall something from the recruitment thread (not past of the 16) that mentioned fighting the occasional monster. I hope that we get too.

Oh, there will be monsters, they just aren't the primary threat.


Dice, just for my own curiosity, are we allowed to request homebrew PrC's?
It mentions it in the 16, but I didn't know if we were allowed to or not.

You are indeed.


EDIT: Not that it matters in terms of the game, but can anyone explain how someone would use a rapier with two hands? I took fencing in high school, and I'm just not seeing it..

You wouldn't. Realistically, it defeats the purpose of using such a slender, flexible sword; mechanically, you don't get 1.5*Str for two-handing it.

TekHed
2012-10-28, 01:08 PM
I agree. Always thought a rapier was an odd choice for diamond mind. Katana always seemed more appropriate to me. Between Zanshin ("Mind like th Moon" or total awareness) and "One Life One Strike One Hit One Kill" (Iaijutsu Focus) DM always had a swordsaint vibe to me...

mrcarter11
2012-10-28, 01:16 PM
Hm.. Well I was going to request something, but I'm nearing completion currently, so I don't think it's as needed.

About the rapier.. Not to argue, as I don't like to, but mechanically it's a one handed weapon that I could choose to wield with both hands. Unless there is something in the PHB that says I can't wield it with two hands.

Also then, brings me to me next question, I believe you mentioned us talking to you about changing the weapon type. Could I have it changed to a katana, or bastard sword, whichever name you prefer.

Another note, I'm using an item familiar, I hope that's kosher.

Lastly, just in case it's needed, this, is what I was going to ask about. Link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107034)



EDIT: Forgot something. If I can't change the weapon type, can we talk about a homebrew feat then, for adding bonuses to fighting einhander style?

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-28, 01:37 PM
Unless there is something in the PHB that says I can't wield it with two hands.

There is. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#rapier)


Also then, brings me to me next question, I believe you mentioned us talking to you about changing the weapon type. Could I have it changed to a katana, or bastard sword, whichever name you prefer.

You can change it to any sword that's among the discipline's favored weapons, but its form is fixed for each wielder.


Another note, I'm using an item familiar, I hope that's kosher.

Yup.


Lastly, just in case it's needed, this, is what I was going to ask about. Link (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=107034)

The class features on that look good, but remember that 2/3 of your levels need to be in a pure-ToB base class or PrC. If you want to use it, you could either do something like warblade 3/psion 3/ephemeral blade 2/ToB class(es) 7 or we could drop the manifesting advancement after level 3 and treat it as a ToB PrC.


EDIT: Forgot something. If I can't change the weapon type, can we talk about a homebrew feat then, for adding bonuses to fighting einhander style?

I'd be happy to brew up a version of Einhander worth taking.

mrcarter11
2012-10-28, 01:41 PM
I can't promise I'll use the feat, but I'd be happy to see the Einhander feat you'd create. And sorry, I didn't know that was noted about the rapier, though it does make me feel better about how odd that would look being used with two hands.

So we're good on changing the sword type without any issues?

Belcor 2.0 (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=463353)

This is the current framework..

TekHed
2012-10-28, 02:01 PM
I thought only the non-swords could change form?

mrcarter11
2012-10-28, 02:35 PM
Well I got about 50k left and I still need an item for my throat, shoulders, and hands. I also can have another ring, so if anyone has any ideas, let me know.



As is, Belcor can be taken 1 of 3 ways combat wise.

I can change Clarity to a katana and be a THF
I can spend my money and pick up a shield, to be sword and board.
Or depending on this feat that Dice produces, I could go Einhander style with a rapier.

TekHed
2012-10-28, 02:40 PM
Well optimizers wil tell you that THF is always preferable to sword-and-board, but there are still ways to do the latter, if you're not concerned with dragoon-level cheese. I play a mostly sword-and-board pally in another Dice game and I enjoy it even though it is strictly speaking sub-optimal in terms of raw damage output (but truth be told I'm not the biggest fan of power attacking unless using a Torog style shock trooper).

mrcarter11
2012-10-28, 02:53 PM
I'm aware that SAB isn't as great, more so since I don't have enough feats to improve my ability to fight the shield, it instead just sits on my arm giving me some AC.

I don't mind THF in terms of just using PA and not picking up every other feat to skyrocket your damage. And einhander is the weakest, or second weakest style simply because you gain nothing from it, which is sad in my opinion.

TekHed
2012-10-28, 03:05 PM
well presumably Dice will make it tasty indeed.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-28, 03:06 PM
As is, Belcor can be taken 1 of 3 ways combat wise.

I can change Clarity to a katana and be a THF
I can spend my money and pick up a shield, to be sword and board.
Or depending on this feat that Dice produces, I could go Einhander style with a rapier.

Einhander or S&B would probably work better, since it makes the transition between old-Belcor and new-Belcor smoother and it makes a better contrast with Stone Dragon and Iron Heart.

If you're going Einhander, you'd have to decide whether you're going with the defensive fighting route, the single-target duelist route, the flashy combat maneuvers route, or a mix of all three. The existing Einhander feat happens to have one tactical option for each approach and having all three options with a beefed-up Einhander would make you more versatile, but focusing in one direction would work as well.

mrcarter11
2012-10-28, 03:20 PM
That was actually something I had thought of, I like the difference between myself and four. I haven't actually looked at tek's sheet, so I'm not sure of that pc's combat style, but I'd likely enjoy an einhander approach more.

As for the various ways to do it, probably a mix of the first two you mentioned.
With my current build, I drop to a 24 AC and then make an AoO when you attempt to hit me and again if you manage to hit me, so more defensive counter attacks would be blend with well with my current build. But I enjoy the duelist approach as well, so I'd attempt to make what use of it I could.

TekHed
2012-10-28, 05:05 PM
Wait...did I just read that you are taking Robilar's Gambit AND Karmic Strike?

That makes three of our group punishment/retributive fighters...that's nasty. :smallamused:

TekHed
2012-10-28, 06:17 PM
Alright Koan has ben updated. Shifted a few things around in light of the adjustments.

For ease of reference: Master Koan is an orphan, brought to the temple at the age of six after most of his village fell prey to a mysterious plague. Due to his late start (for most Temple students begin their training at the age of four), Koan lacked the seriousness and discipline of many of his peers, and was often scolded and punished for acting out in mischievous ways, getting into brawls, or playing hooky from his studies.

He did make one friend however, Antonio Scotari, a half-human of indeterminate origin. Antonio was smaller and weaker than Koan, in spite of being a ear his senior. Their friendship was sealed when the rough-and-tumble Koan protected Antonio from some upper-classman bullies. For many years they were inseparable; however after puberty, when training became more intense and serious, a wedge began to come between them. After years of being picked on, Antonio had begun to develop a very "underhanded" and cut-throat approach to fighting, while Antonio grew more resentful of Koan's skill, which he achieved with such apparent ease that he was still known for playing hooky from lessons to tempt the daughters of nearby villagers, or even fellow co-eds who fell prey to his cocky charm.

By the time the two former best-friends had come of age, they had begun to have students of their own, and their rivalry was passed down to their pupils. Things escalated for two more years until finally an incident occurred where a few of Antonio's students jumped some of Koan's, and one of Antonio's students was badly wounded. Even though their rivals had initiated the fight, Koan took responsibility and, disgusted by the situation, exiled himself from the Temple at the age of 24.

For many years, Koan wandered the wilderness, surviving through skill and guile. He traveled beyond the Great Desert to the shores of the vast ocean and back. He subsisted as a mercenary fighting in wars between the Hobgoblins and their ilk. He spent two years living on a mountain, where his hair and beard grew long and he traded and fought with dwarves and giants and goliaths alike. Finally, Koan traveled north, far to the north where great rivers of ice carve through mountains and time. It was there that Koan met his ultimate mentor, the silver dragon Severex, a master of the aptly-names Stone Dragon school.

From Severex did Koan learn many advanced techniques, but his training did not stop there. Koan was taught to us his mind as his greatest weapon, to blend into the forest, mimic it's sounds, or even disguise his appearance, taking on the role of another to learn about and misdirect his enemies.He also spent a good deal of time in scholarly pursuits, for Severex had many scrolls of history detailing the many battles and empires that had shaped the world across the ages. Finally, after many grueling years of training; learning to splinter logs, and eventually boulders with his bare fists, and hardening his flesh in the freezing water of glacial falls, Severex initiated Koan into the ancient words of draconic, most ancient of all languages. With these arcane utterances, Koan learned to inspire valor in himself and others, add power to healing, and even to summon the hoarfrost of the silver wyrms to coat his weapons.

It took some time for news of the treachery of the Shadow Horde to reach Koan in his hermitage, a decade after he has last looked upon it's venerable walls. Before taking his leave to defend the temple, Severex taught Koan his greatest secret. A single syllable, one that had been used to forge the heart of the world, to empower his spirit. This could be taxing to the wielder however, and after he used it only once in practice, it had turned a shock of his hair silver-white. Even with such a gift however it would be to no avail, for Koan arrived too late, the ashes of the True Temple still smoldering. He would have left then and there to pursue the hated foe and wreak vengeance, but Joseph Sapler had a better idea. It was the Grandmaster of Unity who succeeded in reminding Koan that vengeance was best served cold, and that his strength would be needed to regroup and rebuild.

That was two years ago, and Koan has bided his time. No longer the flashy reckless man of his youth, Koan has cooled immeasurably. His presence is calm, a bit understated even, with the quiet strength and solidity of a boulder. His icy blue eyes, now graced with creasing crow's feet, are frozen steel, but Koan is not one for intimidation, through word or deed. Instead he bides his time until it is necessary to act. Then the Mountain Glacier becomes an avalanche; cold, hard, and unrelenting.

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/2707/wuubbig.jpg
Koan, The Mountain Glacier (with Unfettered) (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=444427)

Koan will speak in icy bold Deep Sky Blue


As for my style, what I love is the diversity of options I have. I can fight defensively, or offensively, trip, overrun, and grapple like a champ, debuff, use Robilar's Gambit, and the best part is I took Improved Unarmed Strike meaning he can use all of his maneuvers barehanded, punching through boulders and such barehanded (you will notice his pic shows both his gauntlet and his wrapped-and-ready knuckles). He also is quite formable with his bow and quiver of superior arrows (from his years living on a mountain, hunting).

Some of his most fun abilities...he is incredibly stealthy for a heavily armored character, and perhaps most fun of all is that he is a master of disguise. I fully intend upon infiltrating the enemy temple and getting some Intel close up for us.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-28, 07:50 PM
That was actually something I had thought of, I like the difference between myself and four. I haven't actually looked at tek's sheet, so I'm not sure of that pc's combat style, but I'd likely enjoy an einhander approach more.

As for the various ways to do it, probably a mix of the first two you mentioned.
With my current build, I drop to a 24 AC and then make an AoO when you attempt to hit me and again if you manage to hit me, so more defensive counter attacks would be blend with well with my current build. But I enjoy the duelist approach as well, so I'd attempt to make what use of it I could.

All right, I'll work up Einhander 2.0. While we're thinking of defensive fighting, though, you might want to take a look at the Dancing With Shadows (RoE) and Elusive Target (CWar) tactical feats. The first is kalashtar-only, but if you like the way it works I could either incorporate something like it into Einhander 2.0 or just waive the racial prerequisites and let you use that instead of E2.


Wait...did I just read that you are taking Robilar's Gambit AND Karmic Strike?

That makes three of our group punishment/retributive fighters...that's nasty. :smallamused:

Which is also terrible for PbP, as evidenced by the "you hit her, she hits you, you wanna take that opportunity?, she hits you again, you hit her..." exchange. And I thought having one or two NPCs like that would be bad... :smallsigh: Ah, well, we'll make it work.

TekHed
2012-10-28, 07:53 PM
Or we could ban it and level the playing field in that regard. It would free up a couple feats, but if it's on the table, it's worth taking.

mrcarter11
2012-10-28, 09:23 PM
Well I could trade out those feats rather easily, it'd leave me four extra feats which I guess I could use to help learn to shield fight if the single weapon ends up not working.

I had looked at the one from CWar, I decided against it because I didn't feel like it would see much use. The other one, I have one glaring issue with, but that could just be my bad. I don't feel like those that fight with only a single weapon should have to penalize themselves through ComExp to make it work. A guy with a big sword learns he can swing much harder if he doesn't worry about hitting them as much, makes sense. A guy with a single sword learns a different way to stand to present a much smaller target and that should be enough.



For reference here the einhander feats that I've used before. Made by Seerow
One Weapon Fighting

Einhander [Style] [Fighter]
Benefit: When attacking with a one handed weapon held in one hand, and no other weapons, you gain +2 to hit and Armor Class, plus an additional bonus to damage equal to your dexterity modifier. Apply double the bonus to hit as a bonus to any combat maneuvers made while wielding a one handed weapon in one hand.


Parry and Riposte [Style] [Fighter]
Prerequisite: Einhander, BAB+3
Benefit: When attacking with a single one handed weapon held in one hand, you can choose to take a -4 penalty to all attack rolls to have a chance to parry any melee attack made against you. Any time an enemy in melee makes an attack roll against you, you can make an opposing attack roll at your highest bonus (with the -4 penalty), if your roll is higher, the attack misses. If you beat the opponent's roll by at least 5, you may take an attack of opportunity against the opponent.

Special: If you have a weapon or shield in your offhand that is granting a bonus to armor class that you did not attack with this turn, you may add that bonus to all attack rolls made to parry.

Flashy Offensive [Style] [Fighter]
Prerequisite: Einhander, BAB+6
Benefit: When attacking with a single one handed weapon held in one hand, you can feint as a free action once per round, and as an attack option during a full round attack. Additionally, when you use Power Attack with a one handed weapon in one hand, you can gain +1d6 damage for every 2 points of BAB sacrificed.

BelGareth
2012-10-28, 10:11 PM
Well I could trade out those feats rather easily, it'd leave me four extra feats which I guess I could use to help learn to shield fight if the single weapon ends up not working.

I had looked at the one from CWar, I decided against it because I didn't feel like it would see much use. The other one, I have one glaring issue with, but that could just be my bad. I don't feel like those that fight with only a single weapon should have to penalize themselves through ComExp to make it work. A guy with a big sword learns he can swing much harder if he doesn't worry about hitting them as much, makes sense. A guy with a single sword learns a different way to stand to present a much smaller target and that should be enough.



For reference here the einhander feats that I've used before. Made by Seerow
One Weapon Fighting

Einhander [Style] [Fighter]
Benefit: When attacking with a one handed weapon held in one hand, and no other weapons, you gain +2 to hit and Armor Class, plus an additional bonus to damage equal to your dexterity modifier. Apply double the bonus to hit as a bonus to any combat maneuvers made while wielding a one handed weapon in one hand.


Parry and Riposte [Style] [Fighter]
Prerequisite: Einhander, BAB+3
Benefit: When attacking with a single one handed weapon held in one hand, you can choose to take a -4 penalty to all attack rolls to have a chance to parry any melee attack made against you. Any time an enemy in melee makes an attack roll against you, you can make an opposing attack roll at your highest bonus (with the -4 penalty), if your roll is higher, the attack misses. If you beat the opponent's roll by at least 5, you may take an attack of opportunity against the opponent.

Special: If you have a weapon or shield in your offhand that is granting a bonus to armor class that you did not attack with this turn, you may add that bonus to all attack rolls made to parry.

Flashy Offensive [Style] [Fighter]
Prerequisite: Einhander, BAB+6
Benefit: When attacking with a single one handed weapon held in one hand, you can feint as a free action once per round, and as an attack option during a full round attack. Additionally, when you use Power Attack with a one handed weapon in one hand, you can gain +1d6 damage for every 2 points of BAB sacrificed.


Oooh, I LIKE those, almost want to use the Einhander with Desert Wind.....

mrcarter11
2012-10-28, 10:27 PM
Thanks. I use em on a decent regular basis, because well they at least give you something for fighting with a single weapon.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-28, 11:37 PM
Or we could ban it and level the playing field in that regard. It would free up a couple feats, but if it's on the table, it's worth taking.

If that's okay with DrK and Bel, that would certainly make things easier to resolve.


For reference here the einhander feats that I've used before. Made by Seerow

*snip*

Yeah, Seerow's stuff is usually good, though I hadn't seen those specific feats before. My plan for Einhander 2.0 was actually pretty similar to the first two feats combined.

mrcarter11
2012-10-28, 11:42 PM
I'm assuming yours was to be a tactical feat? His are designed as style feats, since it's a combat "style".

None the less, if you don't mind doing it still, I'd be happy to see your feat. And after thinking about it, I'm likely gonna trade out the AoO counter hitting. Two of us do it already, we don't need a third. I'll find something else useful for my feats. On the other hand, that means I have all the room I need for yours :smallbiggrin:


And by the by, if you were curious, those are from Seerow's Rebalancing the Weapon Styles thread. His feats for reach weapons in that same thread are also really good.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-29, 12:36 AM
I'm assuming yours was to be a tactical feat? His are designed as style feats, since it's a combat "style".

That's correct.


None the less, if you don't mind doing it still, I'd be happy to see your feat. And after thinking about it, I'm likely gonna trade out the AoO counter hitting. Two of us do it already, we don't need a third. I'll find something else useful for my feats. On the other hand, that means I have all the room I need for yours :smallbiggrin:

If that's the case and we only have two PCs with them, that should be a bit more manageable and we don't need to have anyone trade them out.

As for my version of the feat:


Einhander 2.0 [Fighter, Tactical]
Prerequisites: BAB +6, Evasive Reflexes
Benefit: As long as you fight with a single light or one-handed weapon in one hand and no weapon or shield in your other hand, you gain a +2 insight bonus to attack rolls, rolls made to initiate or resist combat maneuvers, and to your armor class, as well as an insight bonus to melee damage rolls equal to your Int bonus. Additionally, you have access to the following three tactical maneuvers:

En Garde: As long as you carry nothing in your off hand, each time you are hit by a melee attack (including touch attacks) you may spend one attack of opportunity to add 1/2 your base attack bonus to your AC against that attack; if your AC after doing this is higher than the attack roll, the attack misses.

Lunge and Retreat: As long as you carry nothing in your off hand, you threaten the area 5 feet beyond your normal reach. However, every time you attack a target within this increased reach, you must take a 5-foot step toward your target to put them within your normal reach.

I Am Not Left-Handed: As long as you carry nothing in your off hand, you may feint as a move action rather than a standard action. Once per encounter, you may feint as a swift action by switching your weapon to your off hand; if the feint is successful, your target is flat-footed until the start of your next turn.


And by the by, if you were curious, those are from Seerow's Rebalancing the Weapon Styles thread. His feats for reach weapons in that same thread are also really good.

I'll check those out, thanks.

BelGareth
2012-10-29, 12:52 AM
That's correct.



If that's the case and we only have two PCs with them, that should be a bit more manageable and we don't need to have anyone trade them out.

As for my version of the feat:


Einhander 2.0 [Fighter, Tactical]
Prerequisites: BAB +6, Evasive Reflexes
Benefit: As long as you fight with a single light or one-handed weapon in one hand and no weapon or shield in your other hand, you gain a +2 insight bonus to attack rolls, rolls made to initiate or resist combat maneuvers, and to your armor class, as well as an insight bonus to melee damage rolls equal to your Int bonus. Additionally, you have access to the following three tactical maneuvers:

En Garde: As long as you carry nothing in your off hand, each time you are hit by a melee attack (including touch attacks) you may spend one attack of opportunity to add 1/2 your base attack bonus to your AC against that attack; if your AC after doing this is higher than the attack roll, the attack misses.

Lunge and Retreat: As long as you carry nothing in your off hand, you threaten the area 5 feet beyond your normal reach. However, every time you attack a target within this increased reach, you must take a 5-foot step toward your target to put them within your normal reach.

I Am Not Left-Handed: As long as you carry nothing in your off hand, you may feint as a move action rather than a standard action. Once per encounter, you may feint as a swift action by switching your weapon to your off hand; if the feint is successful, your target is flat-footed until the start of your next turn.



I'll check those out, thanks.

Dang, that is sweet, would I be able to modify Abd's feats to take this little pony to the show? (i would be losing Leadership and Power attack, nothing i have used)

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-29, 12:55 AM
Dang, that is sweet, would I be able to modify Abd's feats to take this little pony to the show? (i would be losing Leadership and Power attack, nothing i have used)

Go right ahead.

TekHed
2012-10-29, 01:04 AM
wait, so Mountain Skin Stance adding +7 AC at level 15 is too high, but adding half BAB (which at this level for full is +7) isn't?

mrcarter11
2012-10-29, 01:56 AM
I can't speak for Dice by any means, but his feat and the stance's defensive benefits are quite different on two notes.

1. The stance provides this bonus against everything, while I do have a cost to using the benefit, in that it takes an AoO from me. So yes, I can parry your attack, or take an AoO against someone for provoking.

2. Your comparing a feat, which by mechanical design philosophy is supposed to relevant through your entire career. Now as we all know this isn't always the case, more so for fighter type feats. And your comparing it to, a level 1 stance. Stances don't scale. You'll be hard pressed to find a stance in ToB that scales at all, let alone one that can scale nicely.Punishing Stance doesn't add more damage at higher levels, Martial Spirit doesn't heal more, and so on. The feat is supposed to remain relevant, the stance really isn't.

TekHed
2012-10-29, 02:25 AM
hm, I suppose, but his explanation was based around making defenses too high. In a lot of cases AoO won't be triggered anyway in a game like this, aside from Robilar's gambit so it's not hard to spend them every round, meaning with a high dex that's an extra +7 to 4 attacks every round; of course if you have multiple opponents ganging up on you, doing 9-12 attacks in a round you're hosed either way probably.

Still I see your point. It is too bad that WotC didn't make stances swappable.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-29, 05:13 AM
One minor correction: I typo'd it, sorry, that's supposed to be 1/3 BAB, not 1/2. +5, not +7, for the full BAB types and +3 rather than +5 for Abd.

On the matter of large defense bonuses: Essentially, it's a matter of resource expenditure and thresholds. The difference between a constant +7ish to AC and a conditional +7ish to AC is the difference between a whole class feature and a single feat or maneuver. Mountain Skin as a stance is giving you a swordsage's Wis to AC (for instance) for free, numerically speaking; Mountain Skin as a counter is giving you a slightly more reliable Wall of Blades as an extra maneuver known. (You'll notice that at this level a full BAB character's AC is 5ish points higher than their attack bonus, which means "add +5 to AC against an attack" is roughly the equivalent of "have a 50/50 shot to negate a hit with Wall of Blades.")

If Mountain Skin were a 1-round boost or a 1-attack counter, +7ish wouldn't be a problem, because you're spending an action for a time-limited effect that someone with a lower attack bonus can get around somehow, but as a stance it's constant for no action cost which raises the floor of competence needed to threaten them. A character with 17 AC and a conditional +7 can still be threatened by a bunch of kobolds, but a character with 24 AC is completely immune to them barring crits, and the same principle scales up to 13th-level NPCs with lots of lower-accuracy attacks against a 15th-level martial adept.

TekHed
2012-10-29, 05:44 PM
Okay, but with that tactical feat, you can sacrifice your AoO every round (with a presumably high dex) and get an effective constant AC bonus, whereas with a stance the opportunity cost is high, and who knows how often I will be in it. Just because it can be constant doesn't mean it will actually be available and at only +3 AC with your revision, there are probably better stances to stay in.
In any case, we'll see with playtesting how it works out.

DrK
2012-10-29, 06:21 PM
For reference here the einhander feats that I've used before. Made by Seerow One Weapon Fighting



Einhander [Style] [Fighter]
Benefit: When attacking with a one handed weapon held in one hand, and no other weapons, you gain +2 to hit and Armor Class, plus an additional bonus to damage equal to your dexterity modifier. Apply double the bonus to hit as a bonus to any combat maneuvers made while wielding a one handed weapon in one hand.


Parry and Riposte [Style] [Fighter]
Prerequisite: Einhander, BAB+3
Benefit: When attacking with a single one handed weapon held in one hand, you can choose to take a -4 penalty to all attack rolls to have a chance to parry any melee attack made against you. Any time an enemy in melee makes an attack roll against you, you can make an opposing attack roll at your highest bonus (with the -4 penalty), if your roll is higher, the attack misses. If you beat the opponent's roll by at least 5, you may take an attack of opportunity against the opponent.

Special: If you have a weapon or shield in your offhand that is granting a bonus to armor class that you did not attack with this turn, you may add that bonus to all attack rolls made to parry.

Flashy Offensive [Style] [Fighter]
Prerequisite: Einhander, BAB+6
Benefit: When attacking with a single one handed weapon held in one hand, you can feint as a free action once per round, and as an attack option during a full round attack. Additionally, when you use Power Attack with a one handed weapon in one hand, you can gain +1d6 damage for every 2 points of BAB sacrificed.


Hey quick couple of questions?
1. Is Robilars now banned?
2. THat first and second homebrew feat if people are playing around can I look at rejigging a couple of feats/equipment to get the first one?
3. Only feat of consequence I'd be losing is Stormguard Warrior/ Iron Heart Aura neither of which I've not actually used yet.

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-10-29, 07:20 PM
Okay, but with that tactical feat, you can sacrifice your AoO every round (with a presumably high dex) and get an effective constant AC bonus, whereas with a stance the opportunity cost is high, and who knows how often I will be in it. Just because it can be constant doesn't mean it will actually be available and at only +3 AC with your revision, there are probably better stances to stay in.

Constant stance, available at 1st level, one of 4+ maneuvers you get at that level alone and 4+ stances you get total, granting free +X to AC > Conditional feat, available at 6th level, one of ~7-9 feats you get total, granting +X to AC at the cost of one AoO per attack.

I reserve the right to change that feat as well if it's unbalancing, but for now we'll go with it.


Hey quick couple of questions?
1. Is Robilars now banned?

Not anymore; Belcor's not using it anymore, so I decided it's still manageable.


2. THat first and second homebrew feat if people are playing around can I look at rejigging a couple of feats/equipment to get the first one?
3. Only feat of consequence I'd be losing is Stormguard Warrior/ Iron Heart Aura neither of which I've not actually used yet.

You may rejigger things for the einhander feats as long as you don't lose something you've already used.

DrK
2012-11-01, 05:28 PM
Having trouble accessing DnD sheets. But when it comes back...

Iron Heart aura/ Stormguard will become Exotic(Bastard sword) and Einhander

I like the fancy duelling with one handed grip (plus the +2hit/AC and Dex to damage is pretty cool)

TekHed
2012-11-01, 05:38 PM
After all that, looks like I'll have the lowest AC after all...

PairO'Dice Lost
2012-11-04, 03:17 AM
:smallsigh: And this is why I don't like using homebrew outside my RL group. At least one player not using the homebrew always complains about the homebrew's power levels, and if you try to tweak it at all at least one player using the homebrew always complains about the changes.

Please, no more complaints or snarky comments from anyone. Again, I'll be looking things over once all sheet changes are finalized and adjust as necessary. If this bickering continues I'll be forced to drop all homebrew, including all of RSD, and if that means we need to re-recruit yet again so be it.

Working with homebrew is so much easier when you can reach across the table and slap people upside the head. :smallwink:


Carter, how's Belcor 2.0 coming along? Almost done?

mrcarter11
2012-11-04, 03:24 AM
I hope I wasn't the one we weren't waiting on me.. But yeah I'm done. I've just been considering changing my feat to EWP and rebuild as a power attacker, because I like how we had so many different styles of combat, but now DrK wants to change too. It just seems totally unlike Iron Heart. :smallconfused:.

So I kinda want to rebuild out as a power attacker..

I honestly sorta feel bad for requesting what started all this.

DrK
2012-11-04, 03:51 AM
I hope I wasn't the one we weren't waiting on me.. But yeah I'm done. I've just been considering changing my feat to EWP and rebuild as a power attacker, because I like how we had so many different styles of combat, but now DrK wants to change too. It just seems totally unlike Iron Heart. :smallconfused:.

So I kinda want to rebuild out as a power attacker..

I honestly sorta feel bad for requesting what started all this.

I've nt swapped out my power attack - I can just alternate between one handed and two-handed fighting. I'm not planning on doing anything silly like TWF or using a shield :smallsmile:

Also big shock... Homebrew that is more powerful than in the books arrived and all the players want to use it!

mrcarter11
2012-11-04, 03:59 AM
Iron Heart just visually doesn't fit the idea of Einhander fighting.. You can't look me across the internet and say it does.. It fits diamond mind really well though, which you can see even in the level 1 stance. It also doesn't shy from Desert Wind, imho. But Iron Heart I just don't see it at all.. It doesn't fit.

What I was trying to say was that out of the four styles of combat, we had a representative of each to some extent.

DrK
2012-11-04, 04:12 AM
Iron Heart just visually doesn't fit the idea of Einhander fighting.. You can't look me across the internet and say it does.. It fits diamond mind really well though, which you can see even in the level 1 stance. It also doesn't shy from Desert Wind, imho. But Iron Heart I just don't see it at all.. It doesn't fit.

What I was trying to say was that out of the four styles of combat, we had a representative of each to some extent.

I've always seen Iron Heart as the "ultimate duellist". Hence why it has the war-axe, longsword and bastard sword amongst its favoured weapons an no big-2 handed only weapons. The first two being weapons that designed for one- handed or two-handed use.

The D&D rules however result in 2-Handed being very good and one- handed (if you've nothing in the other hand) being crap. By taking the first feta (einhander) can alternate between one and two handed fighting as befits the circumstances.

So overall - I do think that a combination of power attack for Two handed, einhander for one handed and a focus on the specialisation and focus tree are pretty thematic for Iron Heart.

Also the four styles of combat...

Two Handed: Torog + 4of9
One Handed: Abd and You
Sword and Board:
Two-weapon:

So we only had 2 of the 4 styles represented anyway

mrcarter11
2012-11-04, 04:40 AM
Actually.. You have two weapons I thought? And myself and Abd both had shields..

TekHed
2012-11-04, 04:54 AM
I wasn't being snarky, mind you, though I was partially incorrect.

4of9 has the old version of Einhander, so his AC is 34/36
Koan's is 36/39 with Mountain Skin
Belcor's sheet doesn't show Einhander, but if he did he would have 32/37
Abd...now Abd has a base of 40, or 45 with Einhander.

This was the point I was trying to make non-snarkily: Abd can take up to 9 AoO/round. How often is he going to be attacked more than 9 times in one round, since as you have pointed out, this game is usually more about fights one on one or with small groups of enemies. Furthermore, attacks past 9, wen they do happen are going to be low enough on the iterative AB that they are likely to miss anyhow.

My point is basically that for Abd, so long as he doesn't care about making AoOs gets an *effectively* constant AC of 45 all the time.

Now if the argument is that Mountain Skin should cap, and not scale because its a level 1 stance that is one thing. But if the argument is that one character with such high AC means that to challenge them you hose everyone else, then that is a different story.

Also, I'll rarely use Mountain Skin now, because other stances are better and if bad guys are able to hit us with an AC of 40+ anyways, then staying in a stance that won't protect me isn't worth it anyways. That is why I thought having scaling AC stance was a good idea...because it actually helps when needed, and carries the opportunity cost of then not being able to use other useful stances.

Not trying to argue, or pick a fight, or be snarky. Just sharing my logic and pointing out that there were two distinct objections to Mountain Skin, one of which was just rendered moot by new Einhander.

DrK
2012-11-04, 05:20 AM
Actually.. You have two weapons I thought? And myself and Abd both had shields..

I possess several weapons but have no capacity for TWF. I hadn't realised you had shields.

BelGareth
2012-11-04, 10:20 AM
Several things, and they will be short as I'm on my phone:
Abd doesn't use a Shield.
The bonus to AC for Abd is +3, per PoDL
Abd can only take 1 aoo/round (no combat reflexes)

And you are right, Tek, 40 is high, I think I might re-re-shuffle the feats to power attack and combat reflexes and change desert wind into a falchion or spear.

TekHed
2012-11-04, 02:40 PM
It's +1/3 CL, so 15/3=+5. I missed the lack of combat reflexes, so that does make it more reasonable. But now you want to take combat reflexes and power attack? Do you mean in place of Einhander? That doesn't make AC 40 any lower does it? You have 40 because SS get +Dex and +Wis, and both of those stats are stellar for Abd.

I hope we can get all the tweaks finished soon and can, as the Brits say, "bang on." :smallsmile:

BelGareth
2012-11-04, 03:05 PM
It's +1/3 CL, so 15/3=+5. I missed the lack of combat reflexes, so that does make it more reasonable. But now you want to take combat reflexes and power attack? Do you mean in place of Einhander? That doesn't make AC 40 any lower does it? You have 40 because SS get +Dex and +Wis, and both of those stats are stellar for Abd.

I hope we can get all the tweaks finished soon and can, as the Brits say, "bang on." :smallsmile:

I get some AC from einhander, so it would drop my AC back down to 38. And yes, in place of einhander and the other one.