Death, anyone?

[Ronan]

So. Belkar and Durkon's prophecies are that they will die. (Sure everyone does, humans mostly at the age of 60-80 or so of old age)

But! they are separated from the guild, along with mr. Litterbox. I got a bad feeling...

[The Anarresti]

I doubt it. I mean, they have V with them, plus we're in the middle of travel from one plot arc to another. It would be really cheap for them to die now with no resolution at all, it would just be bad storytelling.

[King of Nowhere]

ever since we had those prophecies on their deaths, there's a thread "belkar/durkon will die soon" every few weeks at most. if they are in a crowd, somene in there may kill them. if they are alone, they won't be protected. If they are really alone, they may feel sad for that and commit suicide. If they sneeze, maybe they got the devastating magic resistant flu that will kill them after resisting any spells to heal it. If they step on a bug, maybe the bug released a poison in contact with the skin, or maybe the bug's wife will come back to get revenge.
Seriously, stop calling for the death of durkon or belkar just because there are prophecies

[Math_Mage]

Belkar/Durkon death threads remind me of nothing so much as the hectic flight/drive/tumble to the final robot confrontation in The Incredibles:

Dash: "Are we there yet?"

Bob: "We get there when we get there!"

[ThePhantasm]

I got a bad feeling...

Various posters on this forum have had a bad feeling for over 400 strips now.

Anything is possible, but just saying...

[Ravian]

I doubt that either will die incredibly soon. Durkon for one would have to die where the rest of the party could recover his body, since it would be delivered to the dwarven lands. And Belkar has about half a year or so left. The Oracle is in the Southern lands, so he would use their calender, that was probably the main point of the New Years celebration anyway. Add about 3 or 4 months of DStP, and he still has definate time left. They will die eventually but this scene does not have any drama that would befit the death of two main characters.

[FujinAkari]

Belkar has about half a year or so left

No... Belkar has... like... 3 weeks... probably two and a half with how long the current trip has taken.

[JonathanC]

So. Belkar and Durkon's prophecies are that they will die. (Sure everyone does, humans mostly at the age of 60-80 or so of old age)

But! they are separated from the guild, along with mr. Litterbox. I got a bad feeling...

Durkon's prophecy was that he would return to his homeland "posthumously", not that he would die anytime soon. Really, all that means for sure is that he will never see his homeland again while he's alive. If the team were on their way to Dwarven lands, you might have reason to put him on a death clock; otherwise, no.

Given how weasely the Oracle's predictions are, there's plenty of room for interpretation. In strip 572, he clarifies that "Belkar with draw his last breath - ever - before the end of the year". For all we know, Belkar could wind up some kind of free-willed undead. Yes, that'd be terribly cheap, but it could happen.

[Emanick]

No... Belkar has... like... 3 weeks... probably two and a half with how long the current trip has taken.

More like five weeks, per a post Rich made a few weeks ago on that subject. (Sorry, I can't be bothered to find it right now.)

[The Derider]

Durkon's prophecy was that he would return to his homeland "posthumously", not that he would die anytime soon. Really, all that means for sure is that he will never see his homeland again while he's alive. If the team were on their way to Dwarven lands, you might have reason to put him on a death clock; otherwise, no.

Given how weasely the Oracle's predictions are, there's plenty of room for interpretation. In strip 572, he clarifies that "Belkar with draw his last breath - ever - before the end of the year". For all we know, Belkar could wind up some kind of free-willed undead. Yes, that'd be terribly cheap, but it could happen.

Actually, Durkon's death means simply that he will return to his homeland dead, not that he'll never see his homeland again. Resurrect, so much fun.

And if you want to go with one of the interpretations of the word, 'posthumously' also refers to a child born after the death of its father.

[Anarion]

More like five weeks, per a post Rich made a few weeks ago on that subject. (Sorry, I can't be bothered to find it right now.)

It would be 4 weeks now if that's right. I think it was a few days to Windy Canyon and it will be a couple more days by the time they rejoin the remainder of the party. If they do encounter any resistance, might add a day or two to that as well.

[Edric O]

More like five weeks, per a post Rich made a few weeks ago on that subject. (Sorry, I can't be bothered to find it right now.)
...and it is very likely that the Girard's Gate plot arc will be over in less than 5 in-universe weeks.

[warnabrother718]

Hi, I've been reading OoTS for years, but this is the first time I ever posted here. I noticed all the threads about Belkar and Durkon's potential upcoming deaths and I realized that V is NOT safe either. Belkar asked the Oracle if he was going to be responsible for the death of V, and when they returned to the Oracle he was beginning to explain how he was going to responsible for V's death when Death's Lil Helper got fed up and stabbed him. Now all three of them are separated from the main group with Belkar (and potentially the rest of them) living on borrowed time. So that's three party members doomed to die that can be wiped out in one fell swoop. Discuss.

[ti'esar]

...and it is very likely that the Girard's Gate plot arc will be over in less than 5 in-universe weeks.

Although no one said Belkar was going to die exactly a year later...

(Playing devil's advocate - I don't expect Belkar to die this arc and I'm sick of speculating on when he will).

[Sunken Valley]

Belkar won't actually die, he still has plenty of story left. and 4 weeks, according to the giant.

Belkar is already responsible for V's death in my opinion. V was looking for him and Haley, which drove V mad and eventually resulted in that deal. V will die as a result of that deal. A deal caused by not finding Belkar.

And Durkon's prophecy only states his "final return", meaning only that he will be buried there.

[Emanick]

It would be 4 weeks now if that's right. I think it was a few days to Windy Canyon and it will be a couple more days by the time they rejoin the remainder of the party. If they do encounter any resistance, might add a day or two to that as well.

Per the most recent comic, panel 2, it's only been two days since the OOTS faced off against the Linear Guild in Tarquin's arena. And I don't expect it to take more than a day for the OOTS to reunite, since that would slow down the plot. Besides, even if Plane Shift deposited the OOTS 500 miles away from their destination, a Wind Walk spell could close that distance in less than nine hours - not sure why the OOTS are using Overland Flight here, unless they know they're close enough to the rest of the group that using Wind Walk is unnecessary.

Edit: Just reread the new comic and V says that Windy Canyon is within a day's flight. So it looks like Belkar will have a maximum of ~32 days left when everyone gets to Girard & co.

[Dr._Demento]

Per the most recent comic, panel 2, it's only been two days since the OOTS faced off against the Linear Guild in Tarquin's arena. And I don't expect it to take more than a day for the OOTS to reunite, since that would slow down the plot. Besides, even if Plane Shift deposited the OOTS 500 miles away from their destination, a Wind Walk spell could close that distance in less than nine hours - not sure why the OOTS are using Overland Flight here, unless they know they're close enough to the rest of the group that using Wind Walk is unnecessary.

Edit: Just reread the new comic and V says that Windy Canyon is within a day's flight. So it looks like Belkar will have a maximum of ~32 days left when everyone gets to Girard & co.

Wind Walking in the Windy Canyon could be tricky, considering the winds and all (and I assume they would also be noticeable outside of it).

Also, to chip in on the Durkon discussion. While I doubt that this will be the case, it is important to know the Durkon asked how he would FINALLY be returning to his homelands. Thus, it is feasible that he could go there very much alive, leave, die, and return there for burial.

[Dr._Demento]

Belkar won't actually die, he still has plenty of story left. and 4 weeks, according to the giant.

Belkar is already responsible for V's death in my opinion. V was looking for him and Haley, which drove V mad and eventually resulted in that deal. V will die as a result of that deal. A deal caused by not finding Belkar.

And Durkon's prophecy only states his "final return", meaning only that he will be buried there.

Dang you, I had just elaborated on that, and was feeling all clever and original. Now my bubble is burst.

However, I do want to note that the likelihood of 3 order members dying at once at this point in the plot is inconceivable (and yes, I know what that word means)

[suzaliscious]

Except, you know, Belkar's prophecy came unambiguously true when he straight up STABBED the Oracle.

[ti'esar]

However, Belkar's question wasn't exclusive - just because he killed the Oracle doesn't mean he can't be responsible for the deaths of any of the others.


Belkar is already responsible for V's death in my opinion. V was looking for him and Haley, which drove V mad and eventually resulted in that deal. V will die as a result of that deal. A deal caused by not finding Belkar.

You know, I'm sure it's been suggested before, but I don't think I've ever seen this theory until now. Interesting, if far-fetched. Of all the non-Belkar Order members, I do think V has the highest chance of dying and staying dead. Durkon might well survive until the epilogue, or (my theory) be brought home to be raised - and that's assuming his prophecy doesn't have a "twist" of some kind.

[ti'esar]

I'd like to point out again that it was never implied to be exactly one year, was it?

[Bulldog Psion]

I'd just like to note that Belkar doesn't need to die exactly at the end of the year. The prophecy said "before the end of the year", meaning that he can die at any time, actually, as long he doesn't live longer than 3-4 weeks maximum from this point in time.

[Pheldagriff]

here we get to know that it is less than a year
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/images/PB7Qobbl4OF31TrFHae.gif

here we learn that the year apparently ends in 7 weeks (from that time on)
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/images/CAYGMBd3trvh8uxbM3T.gif

[Killer Angel]

Belkar/Durkon death threads remind me of nothing so much as the hectic flight/drive/tumble to the final robot confrontation in The Incredibles:

Dash: "Are we there yet?"

Bob: "We get there when we get there!"

I find this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpgM9XWS-90) even more fitting. :smalltongue:

[skaddix]

Should it not be 2-3 Weeks at this point.

[Emulgator]

Yeah, and you know who would want to get Belkar for what have he done to his friend?



















...
Sir Scraggly.

[JoseB]

Death, anyone?

No, thanks, I'd rather have cake :smalltongue:

*flees at top speed*

[ThePhantasm]

You saw a bunch of threads devoted to Belkar and Durkon's deaths, so... you created yet another, and the only difference is V added to the mix? Why didn't you just comment here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=232789) and say "Yeah, V may die soon too"?

[WowWeird]

Time-wise, I don't think there really is a Giant-approved timeframe. The "x weeks" everyone keeps mentioning is from the Oracle's prophecy- "Belkar will draw his last breath-ever-before the end of the year." The Giant has clarified how many weeks remain before said year is out, but it's not a "Belkar dies in exactly one year", it's "Belkar will die at some point between now and the end of the year."
Relevant strip-http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0572.html

[Occasional Sage]

Time-wise, I don't think there really is a Giant-approved timeframe. The "x weeks" everyone keeps mentioning is from the Oracle's prophecy- "Belkar will draw his last breath-ever-before the end of the year." The Giant has clarified how many weeks remain before said year is out, but it's not a "Belkar dies in exactly one year", it's "Belkar will die at some point between now and the end of the year."
Relevant strip-http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0572.html

How is that not Rich's timeframe?

[crayzz]

However, Belkar's question wasn't exclusive - just because he killed the Oracle doesn't mean he can't be responsible for the deaths of any of the others.

You know, I'm sure it's been suggested before, but I don't think I've ever seen this theory until now. Interesting, if far-fetched. Of all the non-Belkar Order members, I do think V has the highest chance of dying and staying dead. Durkon might well survive until the epilogue, or (my theory) be brought home to be raised - and that's assuming his prophecy doesn't have a "twist" of some kind.

Note that "not excluded" does not mean "likely". We knew that Belkar would kill either V, Miko, Miko's horse or the oracle. He killed the oracle. The prophecy was fulfilled. We have no other information, and conjectures based on that lack of information are really just assumptions.

Also, I don't think V will die. There's the idea that death=redemption, but that always seemed like a cop-out to me. If V is to redeem hirself, I think he/she will live for a long time regretting the things he/she has done.

[warnabrother718]

Its possible that they all survive to meet up with Roy, Elan, and Haley, but right now they're in a position where they are extremely vulnerable. All it would take is one of the IFCC saying that they'll take some of the time V owes them right about now and you have one heck of a flustercuck. Mage + dominated Ranger vs. a Cleric + sociopathic ranger. I'm not saying thats how its going to happen, but look at how precarious this situation is. You have Team Evil, the LG also due to pop up any time and things aren't exactly looking up for our heroes.

@ThePhantasm- I think my idea was a unique enough that it shouldn't be buried on the back end of another thread. Besides I'm new. And cool. Since you have a cool avatar I would like to think that you are cool too. Cool people start their own threads. Because we're badass.

Trigger + middle finger= deuces

[ThePhantasm]

@ThePhantasm- I think my idea was a unique enough that it shouldn't be buried on the back end of another thread. Besides I'm new. And cool. Since you have a cool avatar I would like to think that you are cool too. Cool people start their own threads. Because we're badass.

Trigger + middle finger= deuces

Well, welcome to the forum! Your evaluation of my coolness is correct, and I have no doubt you are cool too. This is also cool. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/announcement.php?a=1)

Your thread is exactly the same as the other one, you just added V into the mix. It is a slight variation on Ronan's "theory". We are now discussing this theory in two different threads. That's all I was pointing out.

Theories of V's impending death aren't terribly unique either around here, as I'm sure you will discover.

EDIT: Looks like the mods fixed it.

[JonathanC]

Actually, Durkon's death means simply that he will return to his homeland dead, not that he'll never see his homeland again. Resurrect, so much fun.

And if you want to go with one of the interpretations of the word, 'posthumously' also refers to a child born after the death of its father.

Durkon asked about when *he* would see his homeland again, not his child. Yes, it's true that Durkon's father is dead, but we know that this happened well after Durkon's birth, so that particular definition couldn't be used in this case.

[JonathanC]

Belkar won't actually die, he still has plenty of story left. and 4 weeks, according to the giant.

Belkar is already responsible for V's death in my opinion. V was looking for him and Haley, which drove V mad and eventually resulted in that deal. V will die as a result of that deal. A deal caused by not finding Belkar.

And Durkon's prophecy only states his "final return", meaning only that he will be buried there.

The deal is unlikely to cause Vaarsuvius' death; if you recall, the deal doesn't even kick in until after V dies. We know that the fiends are really just interested in influencing the situation with the Snarl and the gates, so we aren't likely to see their influence again until the OOTS reach the gate.

[JonathanC]

Its possible that they all survive to meet up with Roy, Elan, and Haley, but right now they're in a position where they are extremely vulnerable. All it would take is one of the IFCC saying that they'll take some of the time V owes them right about now and you have one heck of a flustercuck.

Go back and re-read the deal they made; they can't take any of their time until after Vaarsuvius dies.

[Dr. Gamera]

Go back and re-read the deal they made; they can't take any of their time until after Vaarsuvius dies.

Perhaps it is you who should re-read the deal they made in Where Do You See Yourself in Five Million Years? (#633) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0633.html). It is Vaarsuvius who asks: "And for this, you would have eternal dominion over my immortal soul once I died?" The fiends answer in the negative, and proceed to say, "Each one of us will get your soul for the same amount of time that you are under the effects of their Soul Splice." Nothing about Vaarsuvius dying first is part of the deal.

Further, in The Wrong Reasons (#634) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0634.html), the terms are stated as (emphasis added) "If you accept the deal that we've outlined verbally, touch the blue orb." Vaarsuvius repeats the "after my eventual death" qualifier, but the fiends have made no such deal.

[blazingshadow]

Go back and re-read the deal they made; they can't take any of their time until after Vaarsuvius dies.

then i don't get why they wanted V to stay alive when Xykon was going to kill him or how they are going to benefit from having V's soul for a short time after he dies fighting for the gates.

[JonathanC]

then i don't get why they wanted V to stay alive when Xykon was going to kill him or how they are going to benefit from having V's soul for a short time after he dies fighting for the gates.

If V had died fighting Xykon, a lot of their effort would have been wasted. His/her body would have been beyond the reach of the party, and they would have been presumed dead by the OOTS, so they wouldn't be anywhere near one of the gates, and having a resurrected/under control V show up suddenly would have looked suspicious.

The idea scenario for the fiends would be for V to die quietly and alone while the party is near one of the gates (easy to send a controlled V back into the party with no one the wiser), or in the middle of a battle for the gates (it might be obvious that something was up with V, but presumably if the Wizard falls, the rest of the party is in dire straits and in poor condition to resist a possessed high-level Wizard).

I seriously doubt that anyone is going to die while the party is split in Windy Canyon. Furthermore, there's no reason at all to believe that Durkon is likely to die in the comic at all (not saying he won't, just that it isn't more likely than, say, Haley dying). Belkar will "draw his final breath", whatever that means, and V will probably die at some point so that we can resolve the fiendish bargain sub-plot, but I wouldn't expect to see V's death until they reach a gate.

[ThePhantasm]

Durkon asked about when *he* would see his homeland again, not his child. Yes, it's true that Durkon's father is dead, but we know that this happened well after Durkon's birth, so that particular definition couldn't be used in this case.


The deal is unlikely to cause Vaarsuvius' death; if you recall, the deal doesn't even kick in until after V dies. We know that the fiends are really just interested in influencing the situation with the Snarl and the gates, so we aren't likely to see their influence again until the OOTS reach the gate.


Go back and re-read the deal they made; they can't take any of their time until after Vaarsuvius dies.

JonathanC, you can use the "+ button next to the Quote button to quote several commenters in one post, rather than triple posting.

[cocked_brow]

So they're leaving the dominated kobold alive. The dominated kobold who will become undominated in about 2 weeks and will be seeking revenge. About the same time as a certain halfling is due to croak... Hmm...

[BaronOfHell]

Durkon asked about when *he* would see his homeland again
Durkon asks how he'll be returning to his homeland. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html


Go back and re-read the deal they made; they can't take any of their time until after Vaarsuvius dies.
Like mentioned before. The fiends do not mention such term as part of the deal they're offering.

PS: Thread offer - no thanks!

[JonathanC]

Durkon asks how he'll be returning to his homeland. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html
A minor change in the wording of the question doesn't really change the outcome: the Oracle's answer does not imply an upcoming or even premature death for Durkon; merely that he will return to his homeland after he dies (whenever that is).



Like mentioned before. The fiends do not mention such term as part of the deal they're offering.

PS: Thread offer - no thanks!

Ahem - http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0634.html

"The brief time my soul will spend in your collective care after my eventual death..."

[Hackman]

Ahem - http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0634.html

"The brief time my soul will spend in your collective care after my eventual death..."

V thinks that the Fiends will possess his soul after V's death, but the terms of the contract don't specify the time. And it is not in the Fiends' interest to correct V's misunderstanding.

[BaronOfHell]

Durkon asks how he'll be returning to his homeland. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html
A minor change in the wording of the question doesn't really change the outcome: the Oracle's answer does not imply an upcoming [...] death for Durkon; merely that he will return to his homeland after he dies (whenever that is).
The final gate is in dwarven lands. Durkon homeland is the dwarven lands.



Like mentioned before. The fiends!!! do not mention such term as part of the deal they're offering.
"The brief time my soul will spend in your collective care after my eventual death..."
V says that, not the fiends. The deal is made by the fiends. The deal consist of what the fiends says. They even state this part in particular ("If you accept the deal we have outlined verbally...").
Unless you think the "we" refers to V as well, in which case I think you're being a little guillible. Deal with the devil and all that.

[Dr. Gamera]

The final gate is in dwarven lands.

Are you sure about that? The chief references I've found to the location of Kraagor's gate are that it is the closest of the five gates to the halfling homeland, per The Crayons of Time: Breaking Up is Hard to Do (#277) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html); and that it is in the far north in the tundra somewhere, per The Move Action of Shame (#318) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0318.html).

[JonathanC]

The final gate is in dwarven lands. Durkon homeland is the dwarven lands.


V says that, not the fiends. The deal is made by the fiends. The deal consist of what the fiends says. They even state this part in particular ("If you accept the deal we have outlined verbally...").
Unless you think the "we" refers to V as well, in which case I think you're being a little guillible. Deal with the devil and all that.

There is no reason to believe that it is possible to take possession of someone's soul while they are still alive; it is contained in their body, after all. The fiends had no reason to deceive V about the nature of their agreement, because they already knew that V would be willing to pay the price to avoid admitting failure. That was the whole point. V has been damned by hubris, not by deception. The only thing V doesn't know is the true reason for the fiends choosing him/her as a subject.

[Absol197]

Are you sure about that? The chief references I've found to the location of Kraagor's gate are that it is the closest of the five gates to the halfling homeland, per The Crayons of Time: Breaking Up is Hard to Do (#277) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html); and that it is in the far north in the tundra somewhere, per The Move Action of Shame (#318) (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0318.html).

A tiny OtOoPCs spoiler:
Kraagor's Gate is shown to be in a snowy area; the dwarven homelands from whence Durkon has been banished were also shown to be particularly snowy. This has lead to the speculation that the final gate is in (or at least near) the dwarven lands. It's even called, "Kraagor's Gate," not "Serini's Gate."

I personally am reserving judgement on that until the Giant shown us what is actually up, but I would think that it would be pointless to have a prophecy in a story if it never happens to come true :smalltongue:

[Syklone]

Also, they've reunited so the theory is moot.

[The Derider]

Durkon asked about when *he* would see his homeland again, not his child. Yes, it's true that Durkon's father is dead, but we know that this happened well after Durkon's birth, so that particular definition couldn't be used in this case.

I don't recall seeing anything about Durkon's parents, actually... his grandfather, but not his dad. Could you tell me where this was?

[psijac]

There is no reason to believe that it is possible to take possession of someone's soul while they are still alive; it is contained in their body, after all. The fiends had no reason to deceive V about the nature of their agreement, because they already knew that V would be willing to pay the price to avoid admitting failure. That was the whole point. V has been damned by hubris, not by deception. The only thing V doesn't know is the true reason for the fiends choosing him/her as a subject.

The fiends got exactly what they wanted from their bargin with V. Which was for Xykon to be pushed out of his comfort zone. They don't otherwise they would not consider V's soul valuable enought for a bargin. They also think there is a chance they will have his soul anyway because of the fratricide spell. Maybe they will/can use V's soul while he is still alive but only if it suits the story

[phantomreader42]

So. Belkar and Durkon's prophecies are that they will die. (Sure everyone does, humans mostly at the age of 60-80 or so of old age)

But! they are separated from the guild, along with mr. Litterbox. I got a bad feeling...

As I recall, Durkon's prophecy is that he will return home posthumously. I don't recall there being a time limit on that. Could happen after a long and full life.