OOTS #836 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

[Flame of Anor]

Oh, Elan... :smallsigh: :smallbiggrin:


What's the TVTropes name for the "weird bard logic"? I'm sure it's on there.

[B. Dandelion]

I give it about 2 hours before someone uploads a panel to TV Tropes' page on The Unspoken Plan Guarantee (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnspokenPlanGuarantee).

[MoonCat]

I love it. Elan's talk with Roy even made me a little weepy.

[SpaceBadger]

Thanks, Giant!

[Vemynal]

Hurray! The kobald is alive! =D

[M.A.D]

Sweet~!!! Thank you Giant!!! It's actually still the same day with the previous comic here in the UK, which means I'm getting TWO COMICS ON THE SAME DAY~!!!!!!! XDDDD

So, they decided to keep the "tool", hmm? /:)


Oh, Elan... :smallsigh: :smallbiggrin:


What's the TVTropes name for the "weird bard logic"? I'm sure it's on there.

I believe it's called "Genre Savvy"

[CoffeeIncluded]

Oh, Elan...

Also, YukYuk's still with them? Alive? After what V and Belkar let Mr. Scruffy do to him? Bad idea...

[Dark Elf Bard]

Burn!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Lord Ruby34]

Nice, I loved Elan's interactions with Roy. It shows that he really cares about Elan.

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

[Larsaan]

Elan has a plan. I'm not sure whether to take cover or get a front row seat.

Also, it's nice to see Roy being fatherly to Elan for once.

So, has Blackwing told V about the IFCC yet?

[teratorn]

Wow, Elan almost brought tears to my eyes.

[el-pietro]

Elan asks Durkon to marry Elan and Haley

[Debbie_D]

Belkar shows once again why he is the best character in OOTS with a great burn.

[Killer Munchkin]

Elan, a bard through and through!

[Connington]

Oh dear. Much as I understand the urge to use the kobold like a walking artillery piece, there's no way that isn't going to backfire horribly.

Belkar's joke seemed a little weak though.

[SnowballMan]

I cannot help but think the title is in reference to Belkar's retort. :smallamused:

[KingHywel]

I enjoyed the "lost a nail" pun.

[CloakedDancer]

The plot is coming along nicely...

[Michaeler]

The kobold is still alive and still dominated.

As for tvtropes, I count seven tropes in this page, please be more specific.

[Gift Jeraff]

Aw, poor Elan's Mom. :smallfrown:

But the OOTS is finally reunited! Again! Was #750 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0750.html) the last time we saw the entire Order in one strip?

[Zeta Kai]

Durkon looks shocked to see the ground. Hmm...

Also, think about what is in YukYuk's mouth right now. Think about it. Yuk. :yuk:

Also also, first page, woot.

[tirsales]

:elan:"There's no tension."

Yeah, well Elan .. thanks for the cliffhanger. And you should have learned by now that no plan survives the first contact with either the enemy or you! grmpf.
But he's not really planing to use something like "DETECT GOOD" or is he?

... edit ... Lost a nail .. I really am tired. I was trying to find a metaphorical meaning for "nail". If you're stuck as well, call 0800TOTIREDTOREAD and speak the offending phrase loud and clear and 'lo help will arise.

[ThePhantasm]

YukYuk... is still alive!?! :smalleek:

[Laws of Chaos]

Oh man, a plan of Elan's being put into affect. Not sure how I feel about that, but I'm sure it will work the way only a bardic plan could.

And LOL Belkar!

[oppyu]

The kobold is still alive and still dominated.

As for tvtropes, I count seven tropes in this page, please be more specific.
I've only got Unspoken Plan Guarantee and Wrong Genre Savvy, what else have you got?

[Math_Mage]

Wait, people were surprised that the kobold is still alive?

[Psyren]

Dammit Belkar, stop making me sorry about your impending doom.


Wait, people were surprised that the kobold is still alive?

I was. It's remarkably easy to choke while lying on your back. Plus, keeping him around could spell trouble for the order later.

[uncool]

A quote from the current version of Unspoken Plan Guarantee (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/UnspokenPlanGuarantee):

This may be one of the few tropes that OotS routinely plays straight and never lampshades.
=Uncool-

[Animidest]

First page? I hope so! Awesome comic Rich and Smooth; I can't wait for the next one.

Edit: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! I WAS THIS CLOSE!

[Crisis21]

Wait, people were surprised that the kobold is still alive?

I'm more surprised that they didn't just leave him out there.

[Holy_Knight]

Awww... I really like this strip. Seeing Roy actually acting like an older brother to Elan whilst telling him to think of family that way--and referencing his own lost younger brother (who he thinks might have been a bard, too)--is really touching, especially since Elan has always viewed Roy like that anyway. :smallsmile:

Also, I think we can have high hopes for Elan's plan, because he appeals to narrative causality--the very part of a bard's training that should, according to Tarquin, make them incredibly powerful! How fitting if Elan defeats him by proving him right!

Speaking of which, as a side note, this may also suggest that Roy's plan with his archon is also going to work, since we also don't know what it is...

[Seraphem]

Oh, oh gods, I just think I figured out why he choose Yukyuk, he had the kitty litter joke in mind the whole time.

Yeah by tomorrow there will be a new OOTS trope page image. Alert those playing the drinking game.

[Giddon]

I think the plan has something to do with Girard, more then with the whole what to do about my dad adn brother. Something tells me it involves fighting fire with fire, or in this case, illusionists with illusions.

[Ravian]

Good god die already YukYuk, I'm betting on u in the deadpool :smallfurious:

[Jagos]

And so, our heroes return to their full strength and go forth to destroy the Linear Guild. Can they pull it off? What is Elan's secret strategy? Will Durkon ever shave off his beard?

Find out in the next episode of "The Order!"

[Zeta Kai]

I'm more surprised that they didn't just leave him out there.

Well, Durkon is a Lawful Good cleric. It wouldn't be right to abandon YukYuk; it was bad enough that the poor kobold's mouth was used as a litter box. :smallyuk:

[Kalmegil]

:) I really like seeing Roy having internalized the lessons learned about his father.

[Whiffet]

Awww, I'm sad now. I keep thinking of Elan's mommy crying because of Nale. :smallfrown:

[Roland Itiative]

It's nice to see Elan is taking an effort in defeating his dad after all. And I'm eager to know what his plan will be.

The surprise burn was also very funny.

[t209]

A good way to defeat Tarquin is to make him say...
DO IT TO JULIA OR SOMEONE HE LUST!

[MoonCat]

Aw, poor Elan's Mom. :smallfrown:

But the OOTS is finally reunited! Again! Was #750 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0750.html) the last time we saw the entire Order in one strip?

And the last time they were all physically together was, wow, #698 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0698.html).

[Blas_de_Lezo]

Elan asks Durkon to marry Elan and Haley

Unlikely. What Elan clearly wants is...

...escaping the paradox that if Tarquin wins, becomes a king and that if Tarquin loses, becomes a legend. So he's going to make Tarquin look a good / dumb person or to destroy his coolness and storytellable plan before killing him, and thus dening him his badassery and legend.

[Kareasint]

Nice comic. Looking forward to seeing the next one already.

I wonder how long that V will keep the Kobald.

[Tannhaeuser]

Does this mean that the gang's aft is agley? (Well, I suppose Mr. Scruffy's was...)

[A Weeping Angel]

Really liked the Roy and Elan interaction along with Belkar's surprise burn. Great way to announce you are back and a part of the team again.

[Blue Bandit]

I think the plan has something to do with Girard, more then with the whole what to do about my dad adn brother. Something tells me it involves fighting fire with fire, or in this case, illusionists with illusions.

I don't know. Considering that Roy was saying that it would be better to not find a sense of good inside his family when Elan interrupted him makes me think that is exactly his plan. Considering all the previous Star Wars references regarding Elan's dad, I think he will try to turn him good in the same manner that Luke turned Vader.

[CharityB]

Well, Durkon is a Lawful Good cleric. It wouldn't be right to abandon YukYuk; it was bad enough that the poor kobold's mouth was used as a litter box. :smallyuk:

Isn't he a Ranger? As long as Vaarsuvius dismisses her enchantment he would have been able to get by on his own. First order of business would have been, of course, to find the nearest river and take care of some dental business...


I don't know. Considering that Roy was saying that it would be better to not find a sense of good inside his family when Elan interrupted him makes me think that is exactly his plan. Considering all the previous Star Wars references regarding Elan's dad, I think he will try to turn him good in the same manner that Luke turned Vader.


Sanctify the wicked? :D

[MaximKat]

Lost a nail
Hehe...:smallbiggrin:

[Ron Miel]

No tension if you talk about the plan? Hasn't Elan ever seen a caper movie? You tell the audience exactly what the plan is first. Tension comes from unexpected things that threaten to spoil the plan, and how you overcome them.

[MaximKat]

No tension if you talk about the plan? Hasn't Elan ever seen a caper movie? You tell the audience exactly what the plan is first. Tension comes from unexpected things that threaten to spoil the plan, and how you overcome them.

That's the point. He is not telling the plan, so that there are no unexpected things.

[Djibril]

Elan has a plan. I'm not sure whether to take cover or get a front row seat.

I want a seat in the splash zone!:smallbiggrin:

[Ron Miel]

Elan asks Durkon to marry Elan and Haley


And the wedding ring will have a stone (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0129.html)more precious than a big pile of treasure.

[Fitzclowningham]

I keep looking over the cleric spell list and class abilities to try to figure out what Durkon alone can do that will affect Tarquin/Nale/Draketooth(?). Coming up with nothing. Anyone else got any ideas?

[Syklone]

Durkon looks shocked to see the ground. Hmm...

Yeah, it's been established (818) that Durkon is probably acrophobic.

[Draconian]

Let the random speculation on Elan's plan begin.. What? It already has?

Anyway, how long can V control the kobold for?

[Syklone]

And so, our heroes return to their full strength and go forth to destroy the Linear Guild. Can they pull it off? What is Elan's secret strategy? Will Durkon ever shave off his beard?

Find out in the next episode of "The Order!"

1. Probably.
2. IDK man.
3. No wayyy!!! No no no no no. No way...!

[Coventry]

Also, think about what is in YukYuk's mouth right now. Think about it. Yuk. :yuk:


It is not the first time that Rich have given an NPC a prophetic name (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0018.html).

Poor Trigak.

Feels weird to put a spoiler on that.

[Henry]

Oh you, Belkar.

Also, shame about Elan's mom. Guessing we'll get an expanded flashback to include her as bonus content in the next book...

[nihil8r]

hurray for many updates

[internisus]

Heavens to Betsy: I believe that "laid" in the title is acting as a terrible pun.

[Fitzclowningham]

Anyway, how long can V control the kobold for?

One day per level (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dominatePerson.htm), unless V forgets to concentrate on it.

[DaveMcW]

Elan asks Durkon to marry Elan and Haley

It's cute that he decides to ask Durkon, instead of, you know,
Haley

[MaximKat]

Wait, can you recast the spell before it expires?

[Subzero008]

And thus began Yuyuk's fate of forever being a living chamber pot.(and its just what Belkar wanted for Christmas!)

Honestly, I'm surprised they didn't do worse.

[thereaper]

Elan, please tell me you aren't going to try an atonement (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/atonement.htm) spell. It will not end well.

[The MunchKING]

Man, Belkar can NAIL those Insults-of-Opprotunity

[CoffeeIncluded]

It's cute that he decides to ask Durkon, instead of, you know,
Haley

Maybe he knows she'll say yes but he's not sure about Durkon? Or he'll do something else entirely.

[deuxhero]

I felt the past few strips were slightly lacking, but this makes it clear The Giant's touch is still there.

[Draz74]

This strip was mostly interesting to me because it's a rare glimpse of Roy coming out of his emotional shell and discussing, not only personal humanistic stuff, but even his past and childhood. This is more than we've ever seen him talk about Eric in mortality before. Nice to see that deep down under his annoyance, he does feel a brotherly protective instinct towards Elan.


Yeah, it's been established (818) that Durkon is probably acrophobic.
Try back in 647 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0647.html).


It is not the first time that Rich have given an NPC a prophetic name (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0018.html).
Also Belkar's opponent (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0782.html), although this is more of a retcon than a prophecy since we didn't know his name until later.

[The Pilgrim]

Mmmmhh... can't help but notice that the kobold is still alive.

[DaOldeWolf]

They kept him alive?! :smalleek:

This isnt going to end well....

[Cynric]

Is Yukyuk going to come to his senses before he's offed? Cos I'm not sure his reaction to recent events is something I can stomach.

Also, when you're dominated are you able to swallow? Or spit for that matter?

Even as I wrote that, I was suddenly aware of how easily misconstrued and generally creepy that sounded.

[Enero Irontoad]

I have no idea what Elan's plan is. (Maybe that's good, we don't want to figure it out because then it's bound to fail! :smallamused:)

After the last strip, I had dismissed Vaarsuvius's welcome to Yukyuk into the Order of the Stick, but now it seems that might actually happen. I wonder what he'll be like when he's free-willed again.

But I don't get Belkar's joke. Is he implying that Haley (or is he talking about Celia?) is a boring lover?

[thereaper]

He's implying that Roy is.

[lothos]

Ok, so I think this is Elan's Plan:

He is going to get Durkon to marry him and Haley. That way Ian Starshine is now his father in law. His plan will involve him finding good in his NEW family (Ian) who will somehow take over from Tarquin... I think that is the outline of Elan's plan...

-------------
EDIT - Oh boy, was I ninja'd on this... post 15... I was so pleased I thought of this, I didn't read the whole thread before posting... sorry...
-------------

Of course, even if that is what Elan intends, it may well not work out for him. Also, there's probably a lot more to Geoff (Haley's Uncle) and Ian (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0774.html) than meets the eye so far... so they may not be as good as Elan thinks... but he does trust and love Haley. Not withstanding her revelation to him (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0670.html) about killing Crystal (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0648.html), I think Elan thinks Haley is a good person (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0672.html).

I think he thinks Ian is as good as Haley. I think he wants to find a new good family. That's what he needs Durkon for...

Or maybe I'm completely wrong :-)


Durkon looks shocked to see the ground. Hmm...

Also, think about what is in YukYuk's mouth right now. Think about it. Yuk. :yuk:

Yes, I was thinking the same thing myself.... Yuk Yuk's name has new meaning.


Also, just wanted to say how much I'm enjoying the comic generally.

I loved Roy's reference to his young brother who died as an infant (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0496.html). Before I read OOTS, I'd never have believed that I could be genuinely touched by the emotions depicted in a stick figure.

Endless kudos to Rich.

[Ferreroni]

Hm, i didn't thought we would see that kobold alive. Anyway, im hoping for some Tarquin fighter action soon! (And that flying kobold Kilkil. i wonder, what can he do?) :smallannoyed:

[Vinsfeld]

Seriously, Belkar can't die.

[zimmerwald1915]

He is going to get Durkon to marry him and Haley. That way Ian Starshine is now his father in law. His plan will involve him finding good in his NEW family (Ian) who will somehow take over from Tarquin... I think that is the outline of Elan's plan...
Oh, Elan...

Ian was okay with taking you hostage, and tried to have you killed. Why you would feel possessed to go looking for good in him, let alone generosity of spirit or warmth, is...entirely in keeping with your actions up to this point.

[Incom]

#837 panel one:
:roy:: Y'know, Elan, that might actually work.
:elan:: Yeah, I figured I should tell you off-panel, just in case.

[gibbo88]

Careful Rich, we will soon expect you to post every day all the time!

BTW, awesome comic.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Oh, Elan...

Ian was okay with taking you hostage, and tried to have you killed. Why you would feel possessed to go looking for good in him, let alone generosity of spirit or warmth, is...entirely in keeping with your actions up to this point.

I know...

Also, take a look at the last few panels of this comic. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0681.html)

[JSSheridan]

Elan asks Durkon to marry Elan and Haley

My money is on this "plan" having something to do with Elan's mother.

[The Anti Hero]

I was actually going to guess that Elan would try to continue with the Star Wars theme. After all, since Tarquin revealed himself to Elan in very Star War esque terms, why should the story end in the same manner?

I mean, Roy just said something along the lines of "try to find a sense of good inside your family." A theme which is repeated throughout Star Wars is that Luke believes that there's still good inside of his father (and, at the 11th hour, that does prove to be correct). Could Elan try to do the same thing as Luke?

Then again, I've proven, time and time again, to be unable to keep up with Rich's story telling abilities. Chances are, he probably has a more surprising twist in mind :smallsmile:

[t209]

Seriously, Belkar can't die.

That's why it might be loop hole in Belkar's death.
I wonder what will happen if Shojo's soul was merged with Belkar like Crysis 2

[gibbo88]

Careful Rich, we will soon expect you to post every day all the time!

BTW, awesome comic.

[rbetieh]

I am only surprised that everyone except the Kobold werent Holding their noses while flying.....

[Morgan Wick]

I don't know. Considering that Roy was saying that it would be better to not find a sense of good inside his family when Elan interrupted him makes me think that is exactly his plan. Considering all the previous Star Wars references regarding Elan's dad, I think he will try to turn him good in the same manner that Luke turned Vader.

That makes me really creeped out when I think of why he would need Durkon... :smalleek:

[rbetieh]

That makes me really creeped out when I think of why he would need Durkon... :smalleek:

Short Old guy with an accent that talks funny? Training montage, of course.

[Nevereatcars]

A good way to defeat Tarquin is to make him say...
DO IT TO JULIA OR SOMEONE HE LUST!

NOT THE RATS!!! NOT THE RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAATS!!!!!

[lothos]

My money is on this "plan" having something to do with Elan's mother.

I hadn't thought of that... It could also make a lot of sense - trying to use his Mum to "redeem" his father back to being good.... not that there is any evidence Tarquin was ever good.... Ok, then convert him to at least neutrality...

Why would he need Durkon ? Sending spell ? V could do that as well..



Then again, I've proven, time and time again, to be unable to keep up with Rich's story telling abilities. Chances are, he probably has a more surprising twist in mind :smallsmile:

Yeah, I feel the same way. That's why I keep reading this strip. Rich often manages to surprise me in a very interesting way.

[DougTheHead]

Wow. I think that's the first authentic conversation Roy and Elan have had that didn't have a reluctant babysitter subtext. It's nice to see Roy taking Elan seriously and trying to help him without any sarcasm or eye-rolling; this conversation was pretty close to the type of conversation Roy would generally have with Haley. And it's nice (and makes an unexpected amount of sense) to see Roy and Elan connect over their shared father issues.

If more frequent strips means we get more of the characters just hanging out and talking to each other, I say the Giant should start favoring regularity over finding a way to move the plot forward every single strip.

[Holy_Knight]

I don't think Elan's plan involves marrying Haley (in the immediate sense; his long-term plan certainly does). He seems like the type of person that would want to marry only for love, not as part of the means to some other end.

[androkguz]

My money is on Resurrection.

Who will Elan have Durkon resurrect? I don't know. Perhaps Elan's mom. Is she alive? The comic has not specified, but it seems like she is.

....

Ok, I have no idea what Elan is thinking.:smallannoyed: But we know that

1) It involves Durkon's help "as soon as he get here"
2) It "Sort of" defeats Tarquin. Not a straight yes.

[PhantomFox]

I kinda like the growing Elan-Roy friendship. At least when they aren't driving each other crazy.

[RMS Oceanic]

I don't think Roy has had a chance to really interact with Elan on a one-to-one basis since before the battle at Cliffport, so to me this has been a great way to highlight their growth since then and their maturing friendship. They've both come a long way.

I'm in favour of Roy approving of his plan in the first panel of #837, just to zig zag the whole "don't mention the plan" thing.

[EmperorSarda]

Maybe Elan wants to get an Atonement spell for his dad from Durkon?

[ti'esar]

Excellent strip. A genuine bonding moment between Elan and Roy, mixed with the slowly dawning horror (on the reader's part) that the former has A Plan. And the Order finally reunites after well over a hundred strips.

I personally thought Belkar's burn was kind of lame, but I thought that was the point - it's an intentionally lousy insult.

Surprised the kobold yet lives - seems inconsistent with V's attitude towards recurring villains (let alone ones with a personal grudge).

[Landis963]

My money is on Resurrection.

Who will Elan have Durkon resurrect? I don't know. Perhaps Elan's mom. Is she alive? The comic has not specified, but it seems like she is.

She's alive, if the cutaway gag to her serving plan was concurrent with the relevant conversation.




Ok, I have no idea what Elan is thinking.:smallannoyed: But we know that

1) It involves Durkon's help "as soon as he get here"
2) It "Sort of" defeats Tarquin. Not a straight yes.

My guess?

They True Resurrect Penelope. And get Tarquin to do something evil in front of her. Heck, even telling her about the Flan incident would work. Durkon is a cleric, Class and Level Geekery tells me he is about level 14, and True Resurrection is cleric level 9. As for her wanting to return, some method of post-mortem communication with her would work, and as for how that would only "sort of" defeat Tarquin, it makes his empire seem worthless to him, and his victory would be pyrrhic at best, depending on a) how he views her and b) how many people see how he views her.

[RMS Oceanic]

Maybe Elan wants to get an Atonement spell for his dad from Durkon?

Atonement requires genuine remorse and desire for repentance. On an unrepentant dude it has no effect. For that angle he'd be better off with a Helm of Alignment Change.

[Sunken Valley]

Sweet~!!! Thank you Giant!!! It's actually still the same day with the previous comic here in the UK, which means I'm getting TWO COMICS ON THE SAME DAY~!!!!!!! XDDDD


No, in the UK we got 835 Tuesday at 4pm and 836 Thursday at midnight. So we missed a day.

[Snurk]

I know how to defeat Tarquin...Have Yuk Yuk kiss him :D

[DaveMcW]

Tarquin won't change if his ninth wife learns how evil he is. After all, he didn't change when his first wife found out (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0760.html).

[t209]

How many of you though of Next Star Wars references
Hinjo: Team Evil is coming and entire resistance died to get this message.
And probably ship him with Niu (if she is a noblewoman or heir to noble family who refuse to leave azure city)
Or Niu could go Bolivian Army Ending or halo reach ending.

[RSLee]

My money is on Resurrection.

Who will Elan have Durkon resurrect? I don't know. Perhaps Elan's mom. Is she alive? The comic has not specified, but it seems like she is.

....

Ok, I have no idea what Elan is thinking.:smallannoyed: But we know that

1) It involves Durkon's help "as soon as he get here"
2) It "Sort of" defeats Tarquin. Not a straight yes.


Durkon would need diamonds. And a corpse. I don't think that Elan has either.

[Flame of Anor]

Isn't he a Ranger?

What? No, Belkar is the ranger.


That's why it might be loop hole in Belkar's death. I wonder what will happen if Shojo's soul was merged with Belkar like Crysis 2

Okay, now that's just ridiculous.


A good way to defeat Tarquin is to make him say... DO IT TO JULIA OR SOMEONE HE LUST!

Is that a reference?

[t209]

What? No, Belkar is the ranger.



Okay, now that's just ridiculous.



Is that a reference?

Well,Ingsoc party are genre savvy enough to stop Matyrdom of a insurgent.

[Coidzor]

...Now I'm trying to imagine what an adventurer's engagement ring would be like. :smallconfused:

Or wedding bands for that matter.

[the_tick_rules]

Belkar strikes again.

[Idhan]

What? No, Belkar is the ranger.

Belkar's a ranger/barbarian, but anyway it seems pretty likely that Yukyuk is a ranger too. The whole "evil opposites" thing is big for Nale. Yukyuk is a dual-wielder, and he has a riding dog who was probably an animal companion, so ranger seems likely.


Atonement requires genuine remorse and desire for repentance. On an unrepentant dude it has no effect. For that angle he'd be better off with a Helm of Alignment Change.

I don't think that he could convince Tarquin to feel any remorse in some sincere sense, but perhaps he could convince Tarquin to embrace a new narrative about his own life?

I.e., change it from:

"Cruel tyrant rules with an iron fist until his own heroic son has no choice but to defeat him in battle."

to

"Cruel tyrant is redeemed by his own son's love and becomes a wise and just ruler."

He wouldn't sincerely regret his actions, but maybe he could be persuaded that a different story of his life would work, in which he would at least feign regret and, more importantly, stop enslaving people and stuff?

I personally doubt Tarquin would find it narratively satisfying (I suspect he prefers Star Wars to, say, Osamu Tezuka's Buddha), but from a practical perspective, he wouldn't be giving up much.

A just ruler can't conquer the world? Tarquin didn't want to anyway -- his aims are limited to the Western continent, which he already mostly controls. If he ruled a just empire, then some of the remaining independent powers might want to join anyway (at least in some sort of federation status, with which he already appears to be satisfied with, e.g., the Free City of Doom), and as for the rest... does he really need every scrap of land on the continent?

He'd have to give up power and luxury? Not really. It's not as if democracy is morally required in most D&D worlds (including, from what I can tell, OotSverse) -- monarchy with a just king (or a just appointed chancellor serving under a figurehead monarch, which is presumably what Tarquin would be) is fine, and fine wines and feasts (if they're not nation-bankruptingly costly) okay even for an good monarch or chancellor.

He can't go through wives like socks, kill them when he tires of them, and coerce new ones into marrying him? Okay, fair point. I doubt he'd have trouble finding willing women as the handsome, righteous ruler of an empire with a dark and edgy past, though. Still, if he prefers coercing, dominating, and murdering women to consensual relationships, that is a sacrifice on his part.

In exchange, though, the "redeemed tyrant" narrative probably involves Tarquin living longer, and probably having a better afterlife.

(The actual afterlife authorities might find his conversion pretty ill-motivated, if it were driven by "I like the redeemed tyrant story more than I like the villain with a hero son story!" rather than, say, "I realized that torture is a terrible way to treat people," but still, if he had created a peaceful, prosperous, and just empire on the Western Continent, he'd probably at worst get the LN afterlife or something: still probably better than Baator.)

Personally, I doubt that's Elan's plan, but just throwing that out there. Tarquin isn't dedicated to being evil. He's dedicated to making his own life a great story, and enjoying the various perquisites of power. As he currently conceives it, that involves him being evil. However, while I doubt it, it's possible that there could be an alternative narrative that he could embrace.

[Phosphate]

Ahem...call me stupid, but just from his tone I would say that Elan is actually Neutral Good, and he only seems chaotic due to his stupidity. IMO anyway.

[ella ventic]

Belkar's a ranger/barbarian, but anyway it seems pretty likely that Yukyuk is a ranger too.


Yukyuk is a ranger: comic 792 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0792.html).

[Flame of Anor]

Well, Ingsoc party are genre savvy enough to stop Matyrdom of a insurgent.

Ohhh, 1984! Right! I thought you meant Julia Greenhilt and I was so confused.


Belkar's a ranger/barbarian, but anyway it seems pretty likely that Yukyuk is a ranger too.

...but Durkon isn't.


Ahem...call me stupid, but just from his tone I would say that Elan is actually Neutral Good, and he only seems chaotic due to his stupidity. IMO anyway.

Actually, he says explicitly that he's Chaotic Good in A Song For The Departed (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0445.html).

[Anarion]

My guess is that the best way to deal with Tarquin is to defeat him in a location where nobody knows where he is, so that not only will it be difficult to resurrect him, but also nobody will realize he's dead and he'll just kind of go missing for a while before everyone gives up searching for him. A quiet, ignominious death defeats his plans.

Also, let me echo some sentiments already expressed in this thread: The kobold is alive?!?:smalleek:

[Idhan]

...but Durkon isn't.

Okay. I'm not a mind reader, but I thought it was clear that in CharityB's post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=12728921&postcount=49), the "he" in "Isn't he a ranger?" refers to YukYuk.

[OPM]

Oh, Elan...

Also, YukYuk's still with them? Alive? After what V and Belkar let Mr. Scruffy do to him? Bad idea...

I guess we've only seen one yuk so far and we'll have to wait for the second one. That said, I'm pretty sure there's no way he'll ever replace Belkar now. Not after what Belkar and V did back there....

[mint]

Really, really good. I am super curious about how Elan will eventually deal with his father after this comic.

[OPM]

I know how to defeat Tarquin...Have Yuk Yuk kiss him :D

I guess it didn't count as an "obviously self-destructive action" but you can bet that V wasn't concentrating to receive full sensory input during that round....

[Sweet_Goddess]

Oh, Elan...

Also, YukYuk's still with them? Alive? After what V and Belkar let Mr. Scruffy do to him? Bad idea...

Not really. After days of being in the semi plane of ranch dressing, a decent meal would be a nice change, but a gourmet Kobold delicacy, and fresh no less, seems they're only making Yukyuk want to not fight the domination.


Oh dear. Much as I understand the urge to use the kobold like a walking artillery piece, there's no way that isn't going to backfire horribly.

Belkar's joke seemed a little weak though.

Why would it backfire? I think someone made a lovely comment where they implied what isn't torture for one person can be terrible torture for another, but they neglected to think, that the inverse is true. You dangle a live mouse in front of a squeamish human, it is torture, you dangle that same mouse in front of a cat, and it is a plaything and possibly a meal.

Everyone has been so fixated on how they'd feel that they didn't take Kobold dietary habits into consideration.

Kobolds will eat almost anything, and old school Kobolds were described as hairless lizard-like dog men... ever seen a dog eat poo? Some of them like it. If it was revolting to Yukyuk, then he would have received a new save.

V's silent screams comment was for dramatic effect, he doesn't actually hear Yukyuk's thoughts.


The kobold is still alive and still dominated.

As for tvtropes, I count seven tropes in this page, please be more specific.

Yup, he's useful, and will continue to be useful


YukYuk... is still alive!?! :smalleek:

Of course, see above


Wait, people were surprised that the kobold is still alive?

Yes, people think the worst, and look at the world through brown and black stained glasses where everything looks worse then it is.


They kept him alive?! :smalleek:

This isnt going to end well....

It is called the Order of the Stick, they're the heroes of the story, of course it will end well. Everyone who saw Elan's prophecy knows that.


Is Yukyuk going to come to his senses before he's offed? Cos I'm not sure his reaction to recent events is something I can stomach.

Also, when you're dominated are you able to swallow? Or spit for that matter?

Even as I wrote that, I was suddenly aware of how easily misconstrued and generally creepy that sounded.

Maybe. His reaction is already been seen, he didn't receive a new save, so the act was not one that he would not willingly do. I still think this implies the fact that cat fecal matter is a Kobold delicacy.


Yukyuk is a ranger: comic 792 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0792.html).

Actually Yukyuk is a Ranger/Rogue, to be like yet unlike Belkar with his Ranger/Barbarian, on ranged and finesse instead of close and brutal.

[The MunchKING]

A) now they're lizards

B) Why are you so sure he didn't get a save, rather than he got one and failed?? We didn't see him resist before he got the Phantasmal Killer either, we just had Vs word that he quit.

[ti'esar]

It is called the Order of the Stick, they're the heroes of the story, of course it will end well. Everyone who saw Elan's prophecy knows that.

Just because Elan will have a happy ending doesn't mean things will end well for everyone, or that there can't be setbacks along the way. I won't totally dismiss the possibility that Yukyuk found his "torture" quite the opposite, but I still think keeping him around is going to come back to bite the Order (though in the short run, he will be an asset).

Anyway, I was hoping this discussion would be over by now. I'm much more intrigued by Elan's plan, though I wouldn't be as confident in it as he is. Actually, in a way I think Tarquin is already doomed to failure - no matter how evil-cool and badass he does or doesn't ultimately come across as, he's gravely mistaken about being the main villain of an epic story. He's a sidequest boss at best.

[factotum]

Just because Elan will have a happy ending doesn't mean things will end well for everyone

It's absolutely guaranteed that it WON'T--we know that both Belkar and Durkon are prophesied to die at some point.

[BriarHobbit]

Hm. So that kobold is still alive. I thought that he might have died in the last issue.

[snikrept]

.. I am shocked the kobold has survived the Mr Scruffy attack!

[ti'esar]

It's absolutely guaranteed that it WON'T--we know that both Belkar and Durkon are prophesied to die at some point.

Well, there's no guarantee Durkon won't be raised - or that his death will even take place within the timeframe of the comic. And while I don't take any of them remotely seriously, there's always been theories on how Belkar could live through his foretold doom. So it's not absolutely, completely impossible that all the Order could survive in the end.

This is just pedantic nitpicking, by the way - I agree that Elan's happy ending won't hold for everyone.

[snikrept]

Durkon's OMG expression in the penultimate panel: because he hates heights and had to fly all the way, or because he hates torture and had to watch them torture YukYuk?

[Draconian]

Anyone else think about the third panel of the second page of this comic? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0763.html)

[fan4battle]

I used to check for new strip more often than is healthy, but knowing that one is going to be there in less than 24 hours is wonderful! And moving the story forward in a constant pace is great, though I know it is just for a short while.

[Tundar]

Elan has a plan. I'm not sure whether to take cover or get a front row seat.

Hahaha, that's a quote to keep.

[kierthos]

It's absolutely guaranteed that it WON'T--we know that both Belkar and Durkon are prophesied to die at some point.Well, Durkon returns home posthumously, but it doesn't mean he dies during the Snarl arc. He could live a long life in the Elan-ruled former Empire of Blood.

Belkar's still fated to die, but I'd still love to see him weasel his way out of that somehow. (Look, he's my favorite character. And while he's prophesied to die, I can't help but hope for a weasel clause. Or mental transference into another body. Say, that of a kobold. Or a sentient golem or something.)

[Spacewolf]

i wonder if elans plan is to be killed by tarquin. Making tarquin into a heartless dictator that no one would want to follow. Then have durkon bring him back when he gets the chance

[RMS Oceanic]

i wonder if elans plan is to be killed by tarquin. Making tarquin into a heartless dictator that no one would want to follow. Then have durkon bring him back when he gets the chance

I don't think so, that would just play into Tarquin's hands. Basically, Tarquin's plan has two outcomes:

- He defeats all challengers: He gets to continue building his empire and enjoy the perks of power until he dies
- Someone defeats him: The news of his tyrrany's downfall will cement him into legend.

As Elan diagnosed, the solution is to end his tyrrany in a way that prevents him from passing into legend. I suspect we will not know whether his plan to do so is any good or not until it is already in motion.

[Saph]

Heh. The unspoken plan guarantee thing made me laugh. :)

And it's nice to see Elan and Roy getting along this way. I think it might be the first time. Of course, that might be because it's the first time we've seen Elan actually thinking while Roy's around.

[Omergideon]

Now this, this, is the kind of dialogue heavey character based strip that is my personal favourite in so many ways. I do quite love it when the focus is on the people and how they respond to each other. I have said many a time that the OoTS is character based, not plot based per se, and as such this strip is what shows why that is a good thing. It is VERY dialogue heavy I admit, which may not be to everyone's taste. But I do think that it works in this case. The massive balloons to clutter the screen somewhat but I don't get bothered by that so much. But, well, moving on.

The Good:
1) I think this strip is where I realised why I like the art so much. Just look at how the characters stand and move in this strip. The variations in blocking of the various people is something that adds subtle movement to the strip that I like. And more importantly the small details. I mean just look at the second to last panel. The expressions of Durkon and Roy are small, not focused on, but so massively in character that I must love it. Combined with the varying levels of zoom it adds a great dynamic element to a comic that once seemed so static.
2) And now we get to a scene between Roy and Elan. And I love the characterisation. It points so well to how the 2 of them have grown over the course of recent events. now I do not think Roy and Elan have really had a scene like this since the ressurection. Just them 2 talking. But from Elan's explanation of his family issues to Roys response we see so much in them. It is clear now that Roy see's Elan as the little brother he no longer has. It is subtle in it's ways. But we see it so beautifully and realistically done. I mean the compliment to Elan in panel 2 is almost thrown away. But it signifies everything about how the relationship has changed. Roy values Elan and his opinion now. Growth for Roy himself, and the 2 together. And the final scene shows the differences in their philosophies which is very nice.

And to focus on Elan specifically for a moment. We see him working hard on a very personal issue. We see how his family has affected him now and more clearly stated. And it feels real. I cannot praise this enough. The story about his mum, and the line "but he's my brother"............very moving. Elan has become focused and is hard working and serious. He is still naive and dramatic, but with a real seriousness. We saw it happen before, but it is really shown here. And it is wonderful.
3) The jokes in this comic, even Belkar's, work for me. That is something that is always good. No major belly laughs for me, but a lot of simple chuckling. But on a construction point they keep the mood from becoming to oppressively serious, without being jarring to the serious nature of the discussion. Excellent dialogue and, since I am not too good at that myself, I am heartily impressed.
4) As a minor issue, the story is moving very fast here overall. Each strip has done one step in the process without seeming to dally around or waste time. Plus the fact YukYuk is still around intrigues me. I like it in many ways. The strip has a point to the story and completes it with ease.

The Bad
1) I have nothing to say here. Nothing really.

So we have a comic with no massive problems, and many good points. I am interested in how things are going to go from here. I am almost tempted to think once the "strip a day" period ends the book will be done for now. I do not know for sure but I would like it. Especially I am interested in YukYuk. Now I still hate what Belkar did, but YukYuk is not dead. I am suprised by this, and it makes Durkon seem less OOC in the last strip. I still defend V as being so last time (as I do not believe he would so casually witness the torture......he seems to have grown beyond that to me). But the fact he is not dead will certainly be important I reckon. I think the strip here must be ***1/2 for me. No epic moments to earn a 4 star rating. But it is an excellent character study and has no real flaws. Clearly better than any 3 star strip though.

[ManuelSacha]

Hahahaha!
ROFL @ Belkar. :smallbiggrin:

Also, Elan has an idea... mandatory shivers aside, I gotta feeling this one might be THE good idea he's never had. :smallconfused:

[Spacewolf]

I don't think so, that would just play into Tarquin's hands. Basically, Tarquin's plan has two outcomes:

- He defeats all challengers: He gets to continue building his empire and enjoy the perks of power until he dies
- Someone defeats him: The news of his tyrrany's downfall will cement him into legend.

As Elan diagnosed, the solution is to end his tyrrany in a way that prevents him from passing into legend. I suspect we will not know whether his plan to do so is any good or not until it is already in motion.

Except the Standard practice for the evil tyrant that kills the hero is that the people then rise up against him in a revolution with elan being the martyr of the cause.

[RMS Oceanic]

Except the Standard practice for the evil tyrant that kills the hero is that the people then rise up against him in a revolution with elan being the martyr of the cause.

This would depend on whether Elan attempted to rally the crowd prior to his attempt or not. Also Tarquin technically has the resources of three seperate empires to handle a rebellion.

[Username_too_lo]

What's the one thing that vanquishes previously evil characters?

The redemptive power of love (or gay love, according to the Ghostfacers episode of Supernatural)

Mysterious Circumstances may not be as permanent a condition as previously thought.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/True_resurrection

Or, alternatively, Elan may drag his mum back to confront Tarquin and smack him for being a poor father (although Tarquin's had a few wives under his belt since then, so he might be immune to that kind of thing)

An ideal combination would be bringing back ALL Tarquin's ex-wives to ritually humiliate him and expose his weaknesses - kind of like the Sapphire Guard meets that horrible film about ex-girlfriends possible starring Matthew McConaughey.

[M.A.D]

So basically, Elan has to defeat Tarquin and humiliate him at the same time? Well, I agree with people who mention Tarquin's ex-wives. He could as Durkon to Send for his mom, and then resurrect his step-moms. It'll take quite some time to pull off, but when it did, Tarquin would either be known as the one who murdered his 9 wives in one go, or the one who was defeated by 9 ex-wives. :smallbiggrin:


No, in the UK we got 835 Tuesday at 4pm and 836 Thursday at midnight. So we missed a day.

....

Oh.

(._.)

[Burner28]

Belkar's line towards Roy gave me a good laugh!:smallbiggrin:

[Drak'rrth]

When seeing the title, did anyone else think of "Of Mice and Men", the quote or the book?

Anyway, it's nice to have updates coming in so far, although I'm still quite Durkon-ish about Yukyuk's torture. :yuk::yuk:

By the way, could anyone tell me what's so bad about Tarkin becoming a legend? He'll be dead anyway - it may be a "victory", but not one that'll have much effect on anyone else, and it'll cut short his current enjoyment of power.

[zimmerwald1915]

This would depend on whether Elan attempted to rally the crowd prior to his attempt or not. Also Tarquin technically has the resources of three seperate empires to handle a rebellion.
There can be no such thing as a successful rebellion in this context anyway. The opposition is divided, demoralized and incompetent. The regime is just the opposite, and popular to boot. As you point out, if the masses rise spontaneously, there's always the Weeping King or Queen Schvitzer to play Nicholas I to the Empress of Blood's Ferdinand I. Finally, there's always the possibility that Tarquin can simply put himself at the head of any such spontaneous uprising. It's not like he personally is a notorious figure outside a few in-the-know people, and a movement with not much political schooling would be glad to have a powerful, competent leader even if that leader spent some time in the employ of the regime.

And that's not even getting into the impracticality of mass movements in D&D settings with high-level characters, or that such a story would go against established themes in the comic.

[luc258]

Elan is under the assumption that Tarquin is still at his palace. I don't think his plan can cover the inevitable, dramatic encounter with Nale and Tarquin at the gate.

my personal speculation:
Nale, Elan, Tarquin and the rest fight against Xykon at the gate. Tarquin and Nale don't have any interest in Xykon taking over the gate.
Their information about the gate is what Nale could gather from the paladins, they know that the ritual can cause creation to be undone and they have no interest that this happens.
The approbriate dramatic ending would be Tarquin sacrificing himself to save his sons. The Giant is setting us up to expect the big showdown between Tarquin and Elan at the palace, but i don't think that will happen.

[Terminalchaos]

Nice, I loved Elan's interactions with Roy. It shows that he really cares about Elan.

Yeah after Roy left Elan to die and Elan still had puppy dog like faith in Roy their relationship has definitely changed. #173 is the turning point.

Anyone else think his secret plot involves a helm of alignment shift or some sort of clerical spell to change alignment? I make this guess based upon when Elan has his epiphany and it fits Elan's sense of bard logic.

[M.A.D]

Elan is under the assumption that Tarquin is still at his palace. I don't think his plan can cover the inevitable, dramatic encounter with Nale and Tarquin at the gate.

my personal speculation:
Nale, Elan, Tarquin and the rest fight against Xykon at the gate. Tarquin and Nale don't have any interest in Xykon taking over the gate.
Their information about the gate is what Nale could gather from the paladins, they know that the ritual can cause creation to be undone and they have no interest that this happens.
The approbriate dramatic ending would be Tarquin sacrificing himself to save his sons. The Giant is setting us up to expect the big showdown between Tarquin and Elan at the palace, but i don't think that will happen.


What about Orrin's party? They're just chopped livers, right? And remember that Tarquin went along for a chance to fight Roy, so whatever climatic dual that followed would have been between those two.

While Nale and Tarquin doesn't want Xykon to have the Gate, they also want it for themselves precisely because of its potential to unmake the world. I daresay they'd use that same power for war and world conquest if the Gate were theirs.

[hamishspence]

but a gourmet Kobold delicacy, and fresh no less, seems they're only making Yukyuk want to not fight the domination.

I doubt it, somehow.


Everyone has been so fixated on how they'd feel that they didn't take Kobold dietary habits into consideration.

Kobolds will eat almost anything, and old school Kobolds were described as hairless lizard-like dog men... ever seen a dog eat poo? Some of them like it. If it was revolting to Yukyuk, then he would have received a new save.

Present day kobolds are dragon-men. Dragons are famous for being able to eat anything. This does not mean they enjoy it.

Plus- where are you getting the idea he's not received a new save? Because V didn't explicitly state "He's still struggling against the effect"?


V's silent screams comment was for dramatic effect, he doesn't actually hear Yukyuk's thoughts.

Why do you think that?

[factotum]

Durkon's OMG expression in the penultimate panel: because he hates heights and had to fly all the way, or because he hates torture and had to watch them torture YukYuk?

Because he hates heights--he's pretty clearly looking down at the ground in that panel.

[Math_Mage]

Any solution that involves Elan killing Tarquin can be thrown out. Elan won't do it, Tarquin won't mind, and it doesn't break Tarquin's scheme.

In fact, any solution that involves Elan following the script of a rebellious son trying to overthrow his evil dad is probably wrong. In order for Elan to have a narratively satisfying victory, he must break the script. For example, he could force or persuade Tarquin to abandon the dream of empire. He could release a manufactured, simple narrative to the people of the Continent that depicts Tarquin as the villain, forcing Tarquin to flee for good. (I would suggest he simply make the real story known, except it's been mentioned several times that people can't wrap their heads around it.)


Anyone else think about the third panel of the second page of this comic? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0763.html)

Since it's explicitly referenced, yes. :smalltongue:

[Mynoduesp]

.. I am shocked the kobold has survived the Mr Scruffy attack!

Queue running gag!

I'm loving these regular updates.
Thanks Giant.

[Bastian]

Durkon's OMG expression in the penultimate panel: because he hates heights and had to fly all the way, or because he hates torture and had to watch them torture YukYuk?

I am pretty sure that Durkon would have done something if Belkar and V had really consistently 'tortured' Yukyuk. Because, stay assured, he doesn't like 'torture'. And he has proven to be willing to dissociate himself from the team when a conflict with his religion or morality arises.

[Deuce]

And so, our heroes return to their full strength and go forth to destroy the Linear Guild. Can they pull it off? What is Elan's secret strategy? Will Durkon ever shave off his beard?

Find out in the next episode of "The Order!"

Full strength plus one "foul mouthed" kobold.

(Sorry, had to)

[Kgw]

I think Elan will do what he can do better
embarrass his companions, i.e, his father. From "cool" to "pathetic" there is just one step, if Elan is near. :)

[HandofShadows]

Roy is getting better. And Elan thinking hard on an idea? Should we start running now? :smalleek:

[el-pietro]

Unlikely. What Elan clearly wants is...

...escaping the paradox that if Tarquin wins, becomes a king and that if Tarquin loses, becomes a legend. So he's going to make Tarquin look a good / dumb person or to destroy his coolness and storytellable plan before killing him, and thus dening him his badassery and legend.


I dunno, he kinda starts with that and then seems to go off on a tangent after Roys talk with him

[ghoul-n]

'lost a nail', actually, is sadder than Tsukiso's death, like, twentyfold ;\

[Zarzar]

So, Tarquin's main goal is to end up as the "Evil Emperor" in an "Action Genre" type end result. How does one up-end the action movie?

Turn it into a romantic comedy.

If Elan gets married to Haley, you have two major factors that turn the "Star Wars-esque Battle" into "Meet the Parents":

1.) Chaotic Neutral Ian Starshine meets Lawful "Tarquin" Tarquin. We all know that Ian will make a Hiroshima/Nagasaki style stink over the father of the groom.

2.) Elan/Nale's mother. If the previous blow-up happens when she's around, Tarquin might try to get her back to save face with Elan. He fails genre savy, and ends up losing his empire to get her back.

"Lightsaber Duel" turns into "Meet the Fockers", Tarquin loses his Mantle of Perpetual Legendary Villany, and Elan gets a happy ending after all as he redeems his dad. There may or may not be ice cream afterwards for the three of them (Family sans Nale).

Nale goes off the deep end in jealousy, feeling betrayed by Tarquin switching sides, and flees before a family battle ensues (knowing full well that he can barely beat Elan, but Tarquin turns it heavily one-sided). There may or may not be ice cream for Thog, since we all know he's alive.

[LordRahl6]

Has anyone considered that Elan might

Pop the questionto Haley

Also why are they keeping the dominated Kobold around?:smallconfused:

[Zarzar]

I think the reason V is keeping YY dominated is because its safer for everyone that way.

If YY gets free, he'll probably try to kill Belkar, fail, and it would be V's fault for leading the kobold to his own massacre.

If YY was let go before the plane shift, he'd probably have stayed with Nale's group, leading to a stronger overall Linear Guild.

If YY was let go after the plane shift but before being found by Durkon/Belkar, then we'd have a plot hole of "Hide the Kobold".

As V is true neutral (if we can call him that), he is out for himself, so letting Belkar have a few pranks (nasty and disturbing as they may be) would keep V's sanity in check as Belkar would have gone nuts wondering who shot his cat. I think we have precedence of V resorting to violent means to protect his own sanity.

Also, V did make a deal with YY to bring him on as the team's ranger after Belkar died. I mean, V's not chaotic (yet), so a deal is a deal after all. It might be a running gag for a while, but it could be worth it. I mean, who doesn't like a dual-wielding tiny murderer who rides dogs, makes jokes at the expense of the innocent. And YY is being offered a cushy job for the "ragtag group of heroes fighting against an ancient evil hellbent on destroying the world". I mean, that's like offering a pension in a D&D world.

[Themrys]

Has anyone considered that Elan might

Pop the questionto Haley



You mean ask her to marry him?

Actually, that's the most logical thing. For which he would need Durkon. On the other hand...this is Elan we are talking about. Will he really draw the most logical conclusion?

[LordRahl6]

@Zarzar: Yeah, that makes the most sense for a Lawful character as oppose to killing him.:smallwink:

@Themrys: You hit nail on the nose.:smallcool:

[DougTheHead]

It's absolutely guaranteed that it WON'T--we know that both Belkar and Durkon are prophesied to die at some point.
That doesn't necessarily mean it's not a happy ending for Durkon, as long as his bones get back home.

[Zarzar]

@Zarzar: Yeah, that makes the most sense for a Lawful character as oppose to killing him.:smallwink:

Dominate Person defintely doesn't sound Lawful nor Good for the amount of time that YY's been under. (You could bring back the lawyers for a lawsuit about the effects of Dominate Person over long exposure periods. Same case as with Miko v. Belkar and Detect Evil).

I've just played with so many N/N wizard/sorc players that like to bend the rules of neutral just like V bends the arcane threads of the universe.

[Fish]

Elan needs Belkar to say "You can't win, Tarquin. If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."

Then Elan blows up the giant, floating, destructive, armor-plated ball. The red one.

[suszterpatt]

One awesome climactic Elan-Tarquin duel on the steps of the palace, coming right up!

[ThePhantasm]

It is called the Order of the Stick, they're the heroes of the story, of course it will end well. Everyone who saw Elan's prophecy knows that.

Wrong. Belkar is going to die, that is certain. Elan's happy ending, as far as we know for sure, only applies to him. No one else has that guarantee.

[Rotipher]

I suspect Elan's plan might have less to do with what Roy said than with the way he said it: by reversing the concepts (family in good rather than good in family). Possibly Elan's thoughts -- which tend to turn things around every which way to begin with -- led him to realize he could do something of the sort to Tarquin's plans. Like, say,

setting things up so that the Queen of Blood, whom mastermind-Tarquin's been smugly using as a figurehead, steals his father's glory so she's the one who looks like the mastermind behind the Empire. Tarquin would thus be demoted to just another anonymous mook, in the reckoning of legend, in favor of the dim-witted dragon he'd brought to prominence in the first place.

Just a thought.

Also, here's a Mind Screw: Roy mentions how the others' return had gone according to plan, yet nothing appears to hinder them as Elan expects. Does this happen because there genuinely wasn't anything to obstruct them, or is it because Elan's Lampshading of the likelihood that they will be obstructed drained all the dramatic tension from such a possibility? Just how many levels of action-adventure tropes are being manipulated at the same time, here?

[chrislbaird]

Elan does has not considered the possibility that the flaw of his plan is not telling it. This can happen if his other party members have conflicting plans or moments of opportunity that would ruin it.

[Chantelune]

Also, V did make a deal with YY to bring him on as the team's ranger after Belkar died. I mean, V's not chaotic (yet), so a deal is a deal after all. It might be a running gag for a while, but it could be worth it.

Uh, V offered the job to a dominated Yuk Yuk as a joke, it's a bit of a strech to say she made a proper deal to him. She merely mention how while dominated, Yuk Yuk prove more efficient and less aggravating that Belkar as he do exactly what he's ordered to (especially after Zdritt tried to kill him) without saying a word.

So even if V were Lawfull, she wouldn't be bound to get Yuk Yuk in the Order. And given the lattest abuse he suffered, doubt he would be willing to join anyway. Or that the rest of the Order would be willing to have him join, for that matter.

As of the strip, liked the brotherly moment beetween Roy and Elan. Curious about his plan as well.

[KoboldRevenge]

Hah "Laid"

[Flame of Anor]

or is it because Elan's Lampshading of the likelihood that they will be obstructed drained all the dramatic tension from such a possibility?

I took it for granted that it was this.

[Bulldog Psion]

Elan does has not considered the possibility that the flaw of his plan is not telling it. This can happen if his other party members have conflicting plans or moments of opportunity that would ruin it.

I'm not sure why that's spoilered, but it's a good point. But I suppose that would ultimately just add to the drama, which would be a plus to Elan even if it fouls up his plans.

[Voshkod]

Wrong. Belkar is going to die, that is certain. Elan's happy ending, as far as we know for sure, only applies to him. No one else has that guarantee.

I suspect it applies to some extent to Haley, if only because Elan's idea of a happy ending would likely encompass her being alive.

[Smolder]

If Tarquin had said it, something definitely would have gone wrong. As formidable as genre-savvy characters can be, they can always be undone by those who see past the tropes, like Roy.

That being said, I have to agree with Roy's self-assessment: he's dull albeit effective. He is the straight man in a group of comedians, and he's always raining on someone's parade, usually Elan's.

Edit: Actually, I take back the 'effective' part. As far as kill-count, Belkar, Haley and V have Roy beat.

[ti'esar]

I suspect Elan's plan might have less to do with what Roy said than with the way he said it: by reversing the concepts (family in good rather than good in family). Possibly Elan's thoughts -- which tend to turn things around every which way to begin with -- led him to realize he could do something of the sort to Tarquin's plans. Like, say,

setting things up so that the Queen of Blood, whom mastermind-Tarquin's been smugly using as a figurehead, steals his father's glory so she's the one who looks like the mastermind behind the Empire. Tarquin would thus be demoted to just another anonymous mook, in the reckoning of legend, in favor of the dim-witted dragon he'd brought to prominence in the first place.

I've felt for a while now that this might be the best way to deal with Tarquin. It would certainly be fitting.

[Spacewolf]

I've felt for a while now that this might be the best way to deal with Tarquin. It would certainly be fitting.

couldve been the mention of fathers that got elan to thinking as Roys fathers enemy is xykon and some goblins they dont even know if RC has a name they just call him that by a random descriptor, considering that noone alive except Nu really knows how powerful RC is all anyone thinks is xykon the big boss and thats that.

[OblivionBlade]

:confused::eek: Wait a minute. the "death prophesy" was fufilled!

"belkar will not be long in this world" Was fuffilled when he was planeshifted to the land of dressing!

[hamishspence]

"Will draw his last breath, ever, before the end of the year"

still remains to be fulfilled, though.

[OblivionBlade]

"Will draw his last breath, ever, before the end of the year"

still remains to be fulfilled, though.
Hmmmm..... forgot about that half.:smallsigh:

[Zigg'rrauglurr]

Something I thought while reading the thread (and will never be read since the new comic will be up in like 10 minutes). Someone mentioned that it's not the first time that "Prophetic" names were thrown in in the comic. What with YukYuk and all...

This and Belkar's time draws near...

We have a Kobold, who fights for the enemy called "KilKil"... Need I draw the dotted line?

[Zigg'rrauglurr]

Something I thought while reading the thread (and will never be read since the new comic will be up in like 10 minutes). Someone mentioned that it's not the first time that "Prophetic" names were thrown in in the comic. What with YukYuk and all...

This and Belkar's time draws near...

We have a Kobold, who fights for the enemy called "KilKil"... Need I draw the dotted line?

[Tobimaro]

Love the update, Giant. And, once again, Belkar steals the show with his burn. :smallbiggrin:

[Chaotic Queen]

Has anyone else noticed that this is the first time Elan's cursed? He said "badass" twice!