(3.P) Dhampirs, Vampires, and Dragons.

[Dulenheim]

Good day everyone.

I started a new campaign using the Kingmaker setting for pathfinder a few weeks back, and one of my players created a dhampir, who is trying to become a full vampire. Is this possible in narrative terms?

Also, I have a question about the Bronze Dragon's ability to polymorph. Lets say a Large dragon uses this ability to turn into a Human. Does this alter it's stats in any way? (I asume the size reduction would mean a bonus to DEX and a penalty to STR, but does anything else changes?)

Thank you for your support, and good game everyone :3

[Urpriest]

It alters its stats exactly the way the ability it's using says it does. For example, for a Bronze Dragon:

Alternate Form (Su)

A young or older bronze dragon can assume any animal or humanoid form of Medium size or smaller as a standard action three times per day. The dragon can remain in its animal or humanoid form until it chooses to assume a new one or return to its natural form.

This is an Alternate Form ability, so we look up the rules for Alternate Form:


Alternate Form

A creature with this special quality has the ability to assume one or more specific alternate forms. A true seeing spell or ability reveals the creature’s natural form. A creature using alternate form reverts to its natural form when killed, but separated body parts retain their shape. A creature cannot use alternate form to take the form of a creature with a template. Assuming an alternate form results in the following changes to the creature:

The creature retains the type and subtype of its original form. It gains the size of its new form. If the new form has the aquatic subtype, the creature gains that subtype as well.
The creature loses the natural weapons, natural armor, and movement modes of its original form, as well as any extraordinary special attacks of its original form not derived from class levels (such as the barbarian’s rage class feature).
The creature gains the natural weapons, natural armor, movement modes, and extraordinary special attacks of its new form.
The creature retains the special qualities of its original form. It does not gain any special qualities of its new form.
The creature retains the spell-like abilities and supernatural attacks of its old form (except for breath weapons and gaze attacks). It does not gain the spell-like abilities or attacks of its new form.
The creature gains the physical ability scores (Str, Dex, Con) of its new form. It retains the mental ability scores (Int, Wis, Cha) of its original form. Apply any changed physical ability score modifiers in all appropriate areas with one exception: the creature retains the hit points of its original form despite any change to its Constitution.
The creature retains its hit points and save bonuses, although its save modifiers may change due to a change in ability scores.
Except as described elsewhere, the creature retains all other game statistics of its original form, including (but not necessarily limited to) HD, hit points, skill ranks, feats, base attack bonus, and base save bonuses.
The creature retains any spellcasting ability it had in its original form, although it must be able to speak intelligibly to cast spells with verbal components and it must have humanlike hands to cast spells with somatic components.
The creature is effectively camouflaged as a creature of its new form, and it gains a +10 bonus on Disguise checks if it uses this ability to create a disguise.
Any gear worn or carried by the creature that can’t be worn or carried in its new form instead falls to the ground in its space. If the creature changes size, any gear it wears or carries that can be worn or carried in its new form changes size to match the new size. (Nonhumanoid-shaped creatures can’t wear armor designed for humanoid-shaped creatures, and vice versa.) Gear returns to normal size if dropped.


Which tells you exactly how to change a creature's stats when it uses Alternate Form. Polymorph is unrelated. Remember to use the most recent errata, as the various abilities that alter forms were heavily changed mid-3.5.

As for your Dhampir, ruleswise it's just a matter of being a Half-Vampire (Libris Mortis) who eventually contracts Vampirism like anybody else would. This however saddles a character with a lot of LA and is rather rough. You may want to find a smoother way to do it.

[Curious]

Depending on whether or not you are using Pathfinder or 3.5 rules, the Dragon should retain his original physical scores in his new form. 3.5 is a little different, as outlined by Urpriest.

[Urpriest]

Depending on whether or not you are using Pathfinder or 3.5 rules, the Dragon should retain his original physical scores in his new form. 3.5 is a little different, as outlined by Urpriest.

Ah sorry, I hadn't noticed the mention of Pathfinder in the OP. But it's the same procedure: Pathfinder has an online SRD, you simply follow all the links and they tell you what to do.

[Marnath]

Ah sorry, I hadn't noticed the mention of Pathfinder in the OP. But it's the same procedure: Pathfinder has an online SRD, you simply follow all the links and they tell you what to do.

That's true. However, maybe the OP doesn't have the time or the will to search through several pages of text when he can come here and get a one sentence reply?:smallwink:

[Jeraa]

Also, I have a question about the Bronze Dragon's ability to polymorph. Lets say a Large dragon uses this ability to turn into a Human. Does this alter it's stats in any way? (I asume the size reduction would mean a bonus to DEX and a penalty to STR, but does anything else changes?)

If you are using Pathfinder - Pathfinder polymorph subschool rules (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/magic.html#polymorph)

If a polymorph spell is cast on a creature that is smaller than Small or larger than Medium, first adjust its ability scores to one of these two sizes using the following table before applying the bonuses granted by the polymorph spell.

If a Large dragon, it gets -4 Strength, +2 Dexterity, -2 constitution, and is now medium sized. That is before any of the polymorph effects are added in. Asumming the dragon is using Alter Self to take the form of a humanoid, he gains +2 Strength. So the final adjustments to the dragons stats in humanoid form is -2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, and -2 Constitution.

[Dulenheim]

thank you guys. That was most helpful :3 glad to have your wisdom.

[Novawurmson]

Find out what your player really means by "be a vampire" because the majority of the "crunch" of being a vampire is very unbalancing in 3.P. You get a bunch of interesting abilities (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/vampire), but you have no constitution score, making you very squishy. Nevermind the fact that Pathfinder does not have solid rules for how to handle Level Adjustments for PCs.

Check out Urpriest's Monstrous Monster Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=207928) for more information about how much of a headache Level Adjustment is, even in 3.5 which has rules for it.

I think best idea would be to come up with or adapt a special prestige class that grants a lot of vampire-like powers that the player can take once he undergoes a ritual in which he is bitten by a vampire; fluff it by saying that it takes time for Vampires to turn completely and then to understand and master the new powers they've gained.

[Andrewmoreton]

I have just done this in a pathfinder game.
The characters are fairly high stat's so this may be to extreme for other games.
When the Dhampir character went from 9th to 10th level as a Paladin I gave them no level advancement and instead gave them
+4 to 3 stats (Str, Dex Cha) +2 to the other 3
DR 5 Silver
fast healing 1 (Fire and Acid do normal damage as do silver weapons)
Vampires blood drinking attack and d4 damage claws
They are still alive but closer to their vampiric heritage , and if they die and are not resurrected will become a true vampire losing con. (note in Pathfinder when they lose Con they get to add charisma to hp instead and as this is a paladin with an already high Cha this would be a huge boost) and gaining all the vampiric bonuses and flaws
They suffer a penalty in sunlight and RP wise are much more nocturnal but do not yet take damage from sunlight.

So far they have foud the blood drinking in a grapple very useful killing off 2 wizards by grappling and drinking and in doing so boosting their hp

[Marnath]

Nevermind the fact that Pathfinder does not have solid rules for how to handle Level Adjustments for PCs.



That's not true. (http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/monsters/monstersAsPCs.html)