Should I try DMing?

[Talkan]

I've had some minor D&D experience (in my eyes), and most of it has been disappointing. My current group, however, is trying to convince me to DM a campaign for them. If you want please read on, but it is really long.

Before I go any further, I'll give you some background on these people. They're all really good friends from school, and they're really fun to play with.

There are five of us, Player A loves to make optimized and generally overpowered characters.

Player B likes to try out new things, but keeps it as simple as possible. He started out in 4.0, but has transferred to 3.5 and likes it much better.

Player C is always a Chaotic Neutral character and has a knack at turning the campaign on its end within 10 minutes of the first session. He loves to turn everything planned awry. He is really fun to play with, though, and is really good at keeping the DM in check. He also started in 4.0, and was actually in Player B's original group. They work well together and are good at player/character knowledge separation.

Player D is almost always a Sorcerer, and has never actually finished a Campaign. He tends to forget rules and often neglects to remember which spell slots he has used. He is really good at getting in-character.

Then there's me. I've tried magic classes, and I like them, but I would much prefer to go Barbarian and smash the nearest door in two. That's our group. We've all had experience with D&D outside of the group, and we're all relatively comfortable with the PHB races and classes.

That said, two of the four have tried DMing before. Player A, who was the one who we all thought knew the rules the best, had us all make level 10 characters with no limits on race, templates, classes, or feats, including Homebrew, so long as our ECL wasn't over 10. We all thought that was all fine and dandy, and we didn't really go too crazy with it. Player C was a centaur, I was a raptoran, and Player B was a standard PHB halfling. Then he started letting Player D be whatever he wanted (e.g. a vampiric black dragon lich sorcerer, ignoring any level adjustments and giving extra stat bonuses) The rest of us didn't learn of this until the first session, when Player D started bragging about it. He also threatened to kill all of our characters if we irritated him. We thought that was complete and total crap, so we dropped and the campaign and it pretty much died after that session. Player A will occasionally try to start up something new, but we're all a little paranoid that he'll do it again.

Later, Player D decided he wanted to DM an adventure, and we thought "What the heck, he's got more brains than to try stupid stuff like that after last time", so we joined in. The first session he sent each of us a simple encounter, just to test the water and see how powerful we each actually are. Secretly, we learned later, he had wanted to defeat us and bring us prisoner to the nearby city. Then, since we wouldn't play into his hands, he decided threw us into jail in the city and had the King's high-level cronies capture us in a way that we couldn't prevent. He then had the King give us a “Do what I say or I'll kill you myself” offer. We all knew he was serious (he was very frustrated with us and probably would've killed all of us right then and there). Luckily, Player C was not there, so he didn't have the opportunity to piss of the DM more and kill us all. We were then decked out in gear and money, and we were sent off. This would be all fine and dandy if he had looked at the rules once or twice during the session.
It started at level 4, but, due to him not knowing half the rules and making up whatever he didn't want to look up, we ended up level 10 by the end of the second session, even though we had only been in five pathetically easy encounters. He's said several times that he wants to turn it into a full-blown campaign. This is alright, but I felt like it was going waaaay too fast in terms of leveling up. I would prefer to have a session or two to savor my new class features, skills, and such. It's technically still going on, but there are a lot of scheduling conflicts, due to people's work schedules.
Player D also let us do pretty much whatever we wanted for our backstories, and Player A abused this privilege and convinced Player D to let him be the focal point of the entire story.

Since both of these have pretty much tanked, they are all trying to convince me to DM a campaign. I've always been curious on what it's like on the other side of the screen, so I'm giving it some consideration. I'm currently trying to write a fantasy short story, and so I figured I could do it in that world. Just so you know, I have no intentions of basing my story off of this if it ends up working out. They all seem to think that I have a good enough grasp on the rules to pull this off, but I thought I should get a second, unbiased opinion.

I've read up some of the stuff, and I realized that I don't understand anything other than PHB standard races, classes, and feats well enough to feel comfortable doing anything with them. I've told them this, and restricted them to that. I've also never had a prestige class, and I don't really know how to deal with them, so for now, they're off limits.

It would start at level 3 or 4. Here is what everyone wants to be:
Player A: Halfling rogue
Player B: Half-elf Bard
Player C: Elf Ranger (using bows)
Player D: Elf Ranger (using two-weapon fighting) or Elf Sorcerer
I was thinking, since there was no real healer, I could make an NPC Human Cloistered Cleric that would start at level 1. They would be mostly there for a DM's nudge every now and then and so that the Bard can focus on the spells he really wants instead of becoming the group's healer. I would be sure to keep the Cleric at a significantly lower level than the other players, so that they could do most of the work and can't complain about me having my own character (which I don't think they'll do anyway). I wouldn't really have him do anything but heal unless they thought it up first. Unless that's a bad idea.

I was planning on doing an Island-based campaign, but then I was informed that there was a book for that called “Stormwrack”. I found a copy and skimmed through it, and I don't know if I would be able to pull off some of the stuff in there. I was thinking that I wanted to keep it as simple as simple as possible. I also don't want to use stuff other than the core rule books if I don't have to. So now I'm having second thoughts about this whole Island thing. I could probably keep it simple, and just have the boats be ferries of something. All of the islands would be within an hours journey of each other. Is it still a good idea to try Islands? Or should I stick with a land-locked campaign?

I've already started the planning process for the politics and everything for it, so I would really like to know if I should go through with it or put it on the shelf for when I know more. I have some ideas for bosses and the main storyline, but I don't want to plan too far in advance without being sure whether or not this is a good idea.

Thanks in advance!

[Hyde]

Well, thankfully, you don't have to know all the rules to be a good DM, you just have to have someone you can rely on that does, which sounds like Player A.

Also, if it's something you're interested in, there's really no reason not to. You can do all the reading you like, but being a DM is so vastly different than being a player, the only way to get better at it is to do it.

The island idea is fine, but I find that a lot of new DMs who start out with their own stuff tend to try to over-explain things, or under-explain things. ...to make that sound sane, Only tell them what's necessary, but make sure to tell them enough to have a general idea what's going on. I strongly recommend flipping through a few modules to see how they get things rolling. (But only that. the way modules carry on is far from the only way to do things).

Number one rule for being a DM is to not get flustered when your plans go wrong (and they will). Nothing is less fun to play than "The DM vs the Players". Learn from your mistakes and keep things moving.

Avoid rail-roading players. I would have several plot hooks prepared, including one for if they say "screw these islands, let's find a boat" (the answer to that one is NOT "you don't find any boats". maybe they get shipwrecked, I dunno). If they're not finding the one thing that you wanted to do, don't make them talk to everyone in town twice just to realize they missed something.

But yeah, go for it. DMing has been one of the most fun and rewarding experiences in my gaming career, bar none.

[ajfonty]

One word of advice I learned quickly as a DM: the plots you create are not going to turn out the way you plan them. Be ready for flexibility and thinking on the fly.

[Hyde]

One word of advice I learned quickly as a DM: the plots you create are not going to turn out the way you plan them. Be ready for flexibility and thinking on the fly.

Exactly this

[Mr. Zolrane]

One word of advice I learned quickly as a DM: the plots you create are not going to turn out the way you plan them. Be ready for flexibility and thinking on the fly.

This. SO MUCH THIS. Players are veritable plot food processors. And you had better bloody well be okay with that, or they can and will revolt. I had two players threaten to walk once, and I learned my lesson about that.

As for my own input, try to get a good sense of the kind of tone you'll want the story to have. The Pathfinder campaign in which I'm currently playing, despite the fact that the DMs plopped the five of us in a serious, gritty low fantasy setting, the plot, so far, has been a comedy, though not without its serious moments. It's a blast.

Also, the other important thing to remember is that it's not about you. Your fun should be a function of the players' fun.

[Alabenson]

One thought: if your going to add a NPC healbot, I'd suggest a Healer over a Cloistered Cleric, since they're very good at what they do (heal, obviously), but otherwise useless, so there's little to no chance of it overshadowing the PCs.

[Talkan]

One thought: if your going to add a NPC healbot, I'd suggest a Healer over a Cloistered Cleric, since they're very good at what they do (heal, obviously), but otherwise useless, so there's little to no chance of it overshadowing the PCs.

I totally forgot to include this. Sorry!

The main reason I chose cloistered cleric over healer was so that I could have a reason for them to continue following them around. A healer would be fantastic at healing, but I figured it would be better for flavor and the story for a cloistered cleric to be following them around and recording their escapades for the records of whatever church she/he belongs to. That and it would be nice to have a divine connection if I needed it at one point, not to mention the cleric spell list is a lot more expansive than a healer's.

Now that I'm typing this, it seems like it could become an issue, since they shouldn't be dependent on any NPC, and should rely on each other more. I'll give the healer a bit more thought, because she/he probably should be just a healbot, if only to simplify things. I can possibly see some issues arising either way.

[onemorelurker]

One thought: if your going to add a NPC healbot, I'd suggest a Healer over a Cloistered Cleric, since they're very good at what they do (heal, obviously), but otherwise useless, so there's little to no chance of it overshadowing the PCs.

Or just give the Bard some wands. That way, you won't have to deal with running the campaign and running a PC.

[Mo_the_Hawked]

I've only got two tips.

When in doubt, wing it, make stuff up, roll with the PC's punches, any which way you say it's all the same.
Circumstance Bonuses/Penalties are you're best freinds. Apply them liberally.
Ok, you've got me, three tips. Always have an encounter or two up your sleeve, bar brawls, summon traps or just a wandering monster or two. If your group starts to bog down or bicker about some nonsense...BAM!! Manticore attack!


And just to echo the above posters, no matter what you have prepared your players will completely avoid/ruin/ignore it, every single time. Without fail. Damn PCs making build a whole dwarven mine complex...

[Anxe]

The wand of healing does sound like a better idea than the cleric. However, when I first started really DMing I gave my players a paladin DMPC. He heroically died in the first adventure, but they have remembered his bravery ever since.

Or you could do 4E where healing is less of a problem.

As for the plot idea. Doing things based off of stories is a good idea. I find the best way is to just pull the characters and the places from stories I like. That way the players can supply the events. For example, the players don't have to visit all the castles to find the princess like Mario did. They can just cast a divination spell and skip right to rescuing her. And maybe they will rescue by knocking down the front door or maybe they will sneak in.

I'd also encourage you and your group members to keep trying at DMing. It took me two failed campaigns before I really got the hang of it.

[Chained Birds]

An old man appears before the bard and says,

"It's dangerous out there, take this."

And he hands the young bard a wand of cure light wounds and proceeds to enter a cave forever.

[onemorelurker]

An old man appears before the bard and says,

"It's dangerous out there, take this."

And he hands the young bard a wand of cure light wounds and proceeds to enter a cave forever.

Random Passerby 1: Why is that old guy standing in front of that cave? He's been doing it since we got here; do you think he's okay?

Random Passerby 2: Oh, him? He's not standing still, he's just moving infinitesimally slowly.

RP1: What? Why?

RP2: Because he's cursed to enter that cave. Forever.

Yeah, yeah, I know what you meant. :smalltongue:

[Averis Vol]

i say go for it, DMings really fun and if you want to write a story it can be a great way to get the juices flowing. though i advise you take the utmost care in watching mr. D, warn everyone ahead of time that they have 1, maybe 2 chances before you flat out remove them from the game (this is if they try to break the game or if they are really disruptive). next get copies of everyones character sheets to make sure they don't fudge anything plus its a great way to keep tab on peoples expenditures and items. and last but not least make sure to atleast have a rough outline of the encounter ahead of time, ive played with a DM who made ridiculous things up on the spot and have had to break his game into thousands of little pieces. but i digress, like the above posters have said improv is a must though don't make everything up on the spot. hope this helps and if you do choose to DM i hope your experience is amazing as my first time DMing was.

[Canarr]

An island setting is perfectly fine for the start of your campaign. It gives you a small, contained space that's easier to construct in the beginning (the PCs' home island) with plenty of options for further development when they've advanced a few levels and start thinking outside their box (the other islands). Also, there's plenty of possible plot hooks there - rivalry with other islands, hidden pirate treasures, sunken ships, ghost ships, pirate ships, underwater marauders...

A few questions to think about below. You don't have to go into details right at the beginning, but having a rough idea about these will help you set the right mood:

Who rules what among your islands? Does every island have their own petty warlord, little more than a pirate captain, answering to no one? Or is the whole group of islands part of the same barony, the lord of which answers to some distant king? Answering that could give you a tendency among the common people living there, whether they have a more Chaotic or more Lawful bend.

Is there more than one race present, and if so, do they hold different islands, or do they mix and mingle? How is the relationship between them - friendly, indifferent, hostile? Do they have different things that the other races want? Will they all band together in the faces of attacking hordes of orc pirates, or will they just take care of their own and leave the others to burn? That will give the players an idea of what to expect when they encounter NPCs of other races.

What threats are common? Will they fight human pirates, or orcs? Are there Undead regularly coming up from below the waves? Are there hostile underwater races making occasional raids? Maybe the islanders have never seen a land-based troll, but scrags are a common scourge? Especially the rangers will be glad to get a hint or two where they should choose their favorite enemies, and this might also give you further ideas to develop the flavor of your islands: many undead usually bring about clerics and paladins from churches dedicated to their destruction, which might otherwise not be found in such a remote location. Many orcs would mean a certain population of half-orcs violently conceived during pirate raids.

If you want the PCs to have the right feel for people born and raised on the islands, give them a certain amount of bonus skill points to put into skills with the right flavor: Profession: sailor or fisherman, Use Rope, Swim, Navigation and the likes.

[Talkan]

Thank you everyone for your helpful and quick responses! This has helped a lot! A lot of this stuff probably would've given me trouble, so thank you again!

Would you suggest that I don't try anything to fancy or crazy at first? It makes sense not to, but I was told by another friend that if I really want to get the hang of it I need to jump right in and let people do what they want. Is this good advice?

Also, if you have any other advice for a fledgling DM, it would be greatly appreciated.

[kyoryu]

There's really two ways you can go with game planning:

1) The hyper-detailed, handcrafted, linear plot. This is great for the level of detail you can put in, but kinda nasty for allowing any kind of player agency.

2) Plan the situation. This means you know the major players, the types of things that the players may run into, etc., and how various actions may effect things, but you *don't* have a vested investment in one outcome or another.

Both are valid approaches. Some people prefer one or the other.

As far as your first game, yeah, I'd keep it relatively low-key. There's no sense diving into the deep end right away.

And you don't have to say "yes" to everything players want. That's part of the job of a DM, saying "no." Especially with the Chaotic Nuts character (since that's pretty much what you're describing), don't feel bad about saying "no" to things that don't make sense. If he does things that *do* make sense, but are generally antisocial, don't feel bad about making him face the consequences of those actions, either.

An island is probably a good way to limit what trouble players can get into at first, and limiting the initial game to a smaller settlement and surrounding area is fine, too.

And when in doubt, roll the dice! If you're not sure what would happen, come up with the possibilities, put approximate percentages on 'em, and roll something! Don't necessarily worry about looking up rules or tables or whatever for stuff like that. Just go with it.

As cliche as it is, a dungeon crawl is not a terrible idea for a new DM. It's a way of running a game in a constrained environment, where the more "game-breaking" issues can't really happen.

Don't presume that players will succeed (or won't) on a particular roll. They might flub the unlock roll. You never know. Treat each test not as something that must be overcome, but as a choice - the game can go this way, or that way, depending on what happens here. Dead ends are a bad idea.

[nyjastul69]

Yes you should try DMing. Even if you 'fail' you will still gain some very valuable experience. I don't know how much I can add to the excellent advice you've already received, but I'll try. The first 3 pieces of advice I give to a new DM are:

1) The players will almost always go in a direction you did not anticipate. Don't fight them in this, just deal with it. Being able to 'shoot from the hip' is one of the things that separates better DM's from worse DM's.

2) Don't prepare too much material, especially if you're using a home-brew campaign setting. You will only ever need 1 session worth of material at any one time ( I suggest 3-5 sessions worth of prep). Be prepared and do your due dilligence, but over-prep can result in disappointment. See point 1.

3) If you're unsure of the parties ability to handle a given encounter, err on the side of caution. I have found it easier to increase an encounter 'on the fly' rather than decrease it 'on the fly'.

DMing is the most difficult and rewarding thing a gamer can do, IMO. Your job will be to facillitate everyone's fun, including yours, while not letting the players run amok. It's a very delicate balance.

Edit: You mentioned being a writer. This is a bit of a red flag to me as a player. As a player, I don't want the DM to tell me, or lead me, through the story arc. Yes, the characters start in Thorpletownlett. Yes, the characters will face BBEG in the end game. How they do it is up to them, not you. As a DM, know the begining and the end game, let the players tell you how that unfolds.

[Canarr]

And when in doubt, roll the dice! If you're not sure what would happen, come up with the possibilities, put approximate percentages on 'em, and roll something! Don't necessarily worry about looking up rules or tables or whatever for stuff like that. Just go with it.


That's definitely a good thing to remember. Whenever one of my players wants to know something I haven't specifically planned for ("Can we find an empty cart in one of the alleys here? Is there a boat tied to that dock? Is there a barrel near the wall I could climb on? Is there a scholar for elven architecture in town?") I let them call "High" or "Low" and roll percentile dice. The closer my roll is to their call, the better the result for them. Quick and easy way to answer player questions on the fly without opening yourself to the accusation of deliberately ruling for or against any or all players.

Of course, if they begin to ask impossible things ("Is there a young gold dragon living in the cave at the cliffs?"), refer to another of kyoryu's excellent suggestions: Just say "No."

In my opinion, it's always good to let the characters, not necessarily the players, do what they want - within the reason of your campaign setting, of course. Meaning. if the characers want to turn down the local mayor's/knight's/captain's job offer of hunting the kobolds who have occupied the old lighthouse at the Southern Cliffs in favor of searching for the sunken elven treasure ship they heard about in the tavern, let them. Don't make it easier on them than it should be, but don't throw any ridiculous obstacles in their way, either ("What do you mean, there are no boats on this island?") Give them options, and let them choose their own path to get there. In my experience, the story that five people write is much more entertaining than the story one person writes.

For the beginning, I would suggest:

1. Work out as much background for your campaign world and especially the islands that you feel is necessary to give your players a feeling for the world they're in. Maybe a small dossier for each PC that gives some background information that particular character would know about.
2. Flesh out the town or village the party is starting out in - size, ruler, some rumors going around, a few notable NPCs they can interact with.
3. Prepare two or three simple first "dungeons" - pick any of the countless maps flying around the internet, populate it with a couple of monsters you want to use, and place it somewhere on the island where appropriate - the kobolds who've taken over the old lighthouse and use it to lure passing ships to their doom; the old sunken ship that's been brought up from the depths in last night's storm and is now sitting on a reef just off the coast with skeletons crawling around the masts; the men from an impoverished fishing village to the north have taken to banditry in order to feed their families, and are attacking travelers.
4. Add a few random encounters they can have on their way to one or more of the adventure locations.
5. Offer a way for the PCs to learn about your adventure hooks - the local authorities need someone to investigate the old lighthouse; everybody's talking about the skeleton ship, but nobody has been brave enough to go there, yet; a PC's uncle lost his trade tools when the fishers-turned-bandits ambushed his travel group.
6. Think about possible follow-up hooks from your adventures - where did the kobolds get the human-made equipment they've been using in the lighthouse? Who left the fresh non-skeleton tracks on the ship, and why weren't they attacked? Who sabotaged the village's boats in order to deliberately impoverish it, and why?

That should get you started.

[Ryulin18]

Everyone should try DMing. Its made my life very interesting and you get free pizza/snacks!

The only people I do not recommend DMing to is weird perverts/furries/anime weirdos who can't keep their perversions out of a decent game. Before all the hate, I would like to explain that I was in a game group with furries for 2 months. I left when they started peeing on each other in game to "Mark territories because my character is part wolf man"

[Talkan]

You mentioned being a writer. This is a bit of a red flag to me as a player. As a player, I don't want the DM to tell me, or lead me, through the story arc. Yes, the characters start in Thorpletownlett. Yes, the characters will face BBEG in the end game. How they do it is up to them, not you. As a DM, know the begining and the end game, let the players tell you how that unfolds.

I completely understand where you are coming from. I've been warned by my players several times not to lead them and to let them role-play, and I'm fine with doing that. I've heard and read stories about DMs leading players along so that it was mostly just the DM's game with the players along for the ride. That, to me, doesn't sound remotely fun or entertaining.
I'm not sure if this is counts as leading, but for a while I was in a futuristic point-buy d20 campaign, and the players weren't doing what our ‘employers’ asked us to do ‘when we could get to it’, so he introduced a mind-controlling machine that the BBEG was using on one of our teammates, so we felt obliged to go and destroy the machine and get our friend back to normal, pushing us into what he had planned sooner than we would’ve otherwise. It was kind of frustrating, because a few of us wanted to go off and do some destruction of to get more points for more powerful stuff, but we knew the DM liked to throw challenges that could only really be easily accomplished with a good majority of the group there, so we tagged along. We got the points we wanted, but not the way we had wanted to get them. Is that what you were talking about?

Anyone can answer this question: If the players start having an issue with Player/Character knowledge seperation, should I call them out on it or let it slide and talk to them in private afterwards?

[Tyndmyr]

I've had some minor D&D experience (in my eyes), and most of it has been disappointing. My current group, however, is trying to convince me to DM a campaign for them. If you want please read on, but it is really long.

Yes. You need not try DMing for these people, at least initially, but trying out DMing is something I recommend everyone tries. Keep in mind that, like everything else, it has a learning curve. Grab a module or the like initially to reduce your work..


Before I go any further, I'll give you some background on these people. They're all really good friends from school, and they're really fun to play with.

Really, you've already covered the important bits. Fun and friendly matters more than anything else put together.

I recommend that with a group this diverse, you sit down beforehand, and talk about what sort of campaign ya'll would like to play, and come to some sort of agreement.

[Mr. Zolrane]

I was in a game group with furries for 2 months. I left when they started peeing on each other in game to "Mark territories because my character is part wolf man"

How very... colorful...


Fun and friendly matters more than anything else put together.

I recommend that with a group this diverse, you sit down beforehand, and talk about what sort of campaign ya'll would like to play, and come to some sort of agreement.

Indeed. I would go so far as to say that one should never play DnD with a group that isn't made up primarily of your good friends. This game can cause egos to flare, after all, and prideful attitudes can turn sessions into warzones. If you're good friends with someone (and they're sufficiently emotionally mature) than these sorts of problems are less likely to come up and easier to resolve when they do.

And yes, figure out what they want beforehand. Once again, it's about them not you.



Anyone can answer this question: If the players start having an issue with Player/Character knowledge seperation, should I call them out on it or let it slide and talk to them in private afterwards?

The rule when it comes to confrontation, not just where metagaming is concerned, or even DnD in general, but just in life, is to talk to them in private afterward. When you call someone out in public they're going to go on the defensive and focus on defending their ego rather than thinking about correcting their behavior. The only time I would tentatively condone calling out meta at the table is when most everyone is clearly noticing it and it is derailing the fun.

[marc]

Yes, go ahead and try DMing. It's the best part of role-playing!:smallsmile:

Don't worry too much about doing things wrong. I suggest that before the next (or first) game, you and the players agree to give each other feedback after the game or perhaps after 2 or 3 sessions.

All feedback should have as many positive elements as negative elements (a "thumbs up" for each "thumbs down"). If anyone shares a negative element, they should use the "wine and cheese" approach: If you're going to whine about something, you gotta bring some cheese, a suggestion or solution, to the table as well. In other words, in order to be allowed to whine, you have to be a part of the solution.

Your feedback to each player should be one of their postitive contributions to the game and one thing they do (or do not do) that either bugs you or is a challenge or obstacle to you running a better game. Ask them to help you to give them a better game. After doing this a few times, you and your players will share feedback more organically.

I would disagree with one opinion that has been expressed by a few other posters: Although it's true that a role-playing game is not "about" the DM, it isn't "about" the players either. Both DM and players have to find some fun in the experience, otherwise it's gonna suck for everyone.

[Averis Vol]

Anyone can answer this question: If the players start having an issue with Player/Character knowledge seperation, should I call them out on it or let it slide and talk to them in private afterwards?

i say call them then and there so they cant ruin the session. a friend of mine DM's and one of the players meta's so hard its hard to tell if hes even playing his character anymore. and my friend just sits back until the sessions over and talks to him afterwards. next session he does it again, and rinse and repeat almost every time we play. now i know this is a worst case scenario, but if your not sure if they're going to do it again, at least don't let it ruin the session for everyone else. sometimes stuff on the maps are reminders for you, not hints for the party.

[Almaseti]

I would say remind them about the player/character thing during the session only if it's causing a problem, and then do it gently. Just say "I don't think your character knows that, so s/he can't/won't/doesn't have a reason to do that."

[Tyndmyr]

Thank you everyone for your helpful and quick responses! This has helped a lot! A lot of this stuff probably would've given me trouble, so thank you again!

Would you suggest that I don't try anything to fancy or crazy at first? It makes sense not to, but I was told by another friend that if I really want to get the hang of it I need to jump right in and let people do what they want. Is this good advice?

Also, if you have any other advice for a fledgling DM, it would be greatly appreciated.

Letting people do what they want is a good general rule. However, remember that actions have consequences, so if "what they want" includes, say, offing people for funsies in the town square, they can expect to end up on the wrong side of the law.

I'd recommend cribbing wildly from modules and the like(a lot of which are available for free). This'll get you things balanced roughly appropriately for the level, get you some nice variety, and give you some guidance. You're also free to invent things, but it's really nice not to have to invent everything.

[prufock]

Everyone who wishes to should at least try the DM chair, even if only to really understand what goes on on the other side of the screen, and how much work it is.

As a trial run, I would suggest getting a free published adventure online, relatively low level, that would take a session or two. Read it, review it, take notes, GO!

[Sudain]

Should you try it? Yes. Should you expect a great/epic campaign of the start? No - the only thing you should expect is to finish it and not be lynched. Start small, and try to do the small things well. Ignore all the supplemental splat books for now - you will expand into those when you feel comfortable.


Growth:
* Read DMing advice on a weekly basis - I read gnome stew (http://www.gnomestew.com/). It will seep in and help you (think of it like a circumstance bonus to your skill:DM)

* Talk to your players and listen. Be transparent - you are learning. Ask about what you are doing right and wrong. If they won't give you specifics then they may not know how to give feedback or may be trying to avoid hurting your feelings.

* Try to master 1 new mechanical thing(disarm, ability damage, disease, divination, random treasure) every 1-2 sessions. Expect the first one to be a botch. Try two should be an improvement and you should have a better grasp of how those rules work. I define mastery is knowing how the rules work without looking them up. Hint: 3x5 index cards are awesome cheat sheets for the first session.

* It is totally fine to say "I don't know how rule X works. So we will go with ruling Y until someone can look up the rule and show us how it should go." Just don't go back and change the actions/effects under Y while someone's looking up X - danger lies down that path.

* If you MUST your plans to happen a certain way, ask your players to play along(be transparent - you are learning). Otherwise, remember how player D threw you into the dungeon? Don't do that. You will end up on that side of the screen sooner or later... :)

* And at the end of the day - relax - you do this to hang out with your friends. If the group(this includes you) is smiling and laughing then that's a good job.

[Mr. Zolrane]

All feedback should have as many positive elements as negative elements (a "thumbs up" for each "thumbs down"). If anyone shares a negative element, they should use the "wine and cheese" approach: If you're going to whine about something, you gotta bring some cheese, a suggestion or solution, to the table as well. In other words, in order to be allowed to whine, you have to be a part of the solution.

Your feedback to each player should be one of their postitive contributions to the game and one thing they do (or do not do) that either bugs you or is a challenge or obstacle to you running a better game. Ask them to help you to give them a better game. After doing this a few times, you and your players will share feedback more organically.

I would disagree with one opinion that has been expressed by a few other posters: Although it's true that a role-playing game is not "about" the DM, it isn't "about" the players either. Both DM and players have to find some fun in the experience, otherwise it's gonna suck for everyone.

I like your "wine and cheese" approach. That's kinda the approach my gaming group takes, though we've never spelled it out quite so precisely. To the OP, that's definitely a good bit of advice to pocket.

I would, however, like to clarify the "it's not about you" position, as I was, after all, one of the posters advocating that position: I'm not saying the DM isn't meant to have fun. I'm saying that the DM's fun is a function of the players' fun. As a DM, you have fun because you've created fun for the players. If your fun is contingent upon anything else (the main offender is "beating" the players, but I'm sure there are others the rest of you could name) then that inevitably leads to problems


i say call them then and there so they cant ruin the session. a friend of mine DM's and one of the players meta's so hard its hard to tell if hes even playing his character anymore. and my friend just sits back until the sessions over and talks to him afterwards. next session he does it again, and rinse and repeat almost every time we play. now i know this is a worst case scenario, but if your not sure if they're going to do it again, at least don't let it ruin the session for everyone else. sometimes stuff on the maps are reminders for you, not hints for the party.

That sounds like it's time to make an ultimatum if it's a recurring problem. The DM was absolutely doing the right thing by going to him afterward, but if he's not listening the problem isn't with how the DM tries to deal with the player, the problem is with the player.


Everyone who wishes to should at least try the DM chair, even if only to really understand what goes on on the other side of the screen, and how much work it is.

This. So much, this. I say everyone should DM the same reason I say everyone should work in the service industry at least once: Just as being a waiter makes you a better customer because you're more conscious of the kind of behavior that makes waiters' jobs difficult, being a DM makes you a better player because it makes more conscious of how the player mentality looks from the other side (hint: it ain't pretty) and, as prufock said, how much work goes into it.

[Averis Vol]

That sounds like it's time to make an ultimatum if it's a recurring problem. The DM was absolutely doing the right thing by going to him afterward, but if he's not listening the problem isn't with how the DM tries to deal with the player, the problem is with the player.



okay, so that wasn't the best example i could have come up with. but i speak from past experience, there's no reason to have an encounter ruined if you can peacefully nip the problem in the bud there, if your to afraid of telling your PC's "your character doesn't know that" then you have a problem that needs to be solved and i for one am not willing to have an encounter ruined because of one person.

on an off note: i'm not trying to be confrontational i just want to stress my point of not letting one person muss with the whole groups fun. its not fair to anyone.

and to the OP on the point of just letting the "players do whatever they want" this is a bit of a trap. do they want to build a tavern where they can always meet up to rest in? yes. but don't let the whole game become one long chain of shenanigans, unless the game is a sandbox there's something the heroes are supposed to be doing, so if you absolutely cant get your PC's to stop doing things plot unrelated while the darkness looms on the horizon so to speak give them an incentive to continue going. they want to turn their tavern into a city? the king/lord/nearest noble who has something to gain promises you a two days ride of land if you destroy (insert BBEG or other pressing issue here) maybe then they want to become lords in their own right? maybe (insert next plot hook here) has stolen the scepter of lordly rights and the only way to get it back is to overcome whatever this plot hook is. all in all make their shenanigans inclusive to the story if they're adamant about having them.

[Talkan]

Ok, I realize this thread is probably dead, and that I'm probably not going to get any more responses, but I have started designing the world in which I am planning to run this campaign and I would love some feedback from you guys. Should I start a new thread for that or is it ok for me to just keep this thread alive for more advice?

I don't plan on starting it any time soon, not until the semester ends at the soonest, since my friends are all swamped with homework, studying, work, and stuff like that. I only really have a skeleton of what could possibly happen (if that), but I don't want to plan too far in advance, especially if the stuff I already have planned is a little too crazy for a first-time DM.

Thanks again for all of your responses and advice! It's helped a lot and I'm positive it will help me even more in the near future.

EDIT: On second thought, I think I'll just make a new thread. Thanks again, though!