Dragon Shaman...

[SSGoW]

I was told by my DM that I shouldn't take this class, he couldn't explain since his shift started right before his last message (email).

So what is wrong with it?

Is there a good multiclass with it?

[Glimbur]

It's not very strong at what it does. Basically, you get auras and a breath weapon. Dragonfire Adept from Dragon Magic gets a much better breath weapon. Auras... you can heal 1 hp a round at first level. An orc does 2d4+3 with moderate to good odds of hitting. And you can only heal up to half health. You can instead add +1 to damage... which a bard can do better since they also give +hit. The resistance is the only bonus that's a significant amount, and it is only one element which you chose at first level. Pick fire? Your breath weapon is fire aka most resisted element.

tl;dr It's not mechanically strong, for dragon magic character instead be sorcerer or Dragonfire adept.

[Mystify]

yeah, dragonfire adept is much better. Its kinda like a warlock with a breath weapon instead of eldritch blast, and is generally considered a notch above warlock. They have a lot of cool tricks they can pull off.

[Urpriest]

Basically, if you want to know whether a class is good you can use the following basic set of questions:

1. What new things does this class let me do instead of attacking every round?

2. If none or few, how much better does it make me at attacking every round?

The Dragon Shaman answers "nothing after the first round" to 1. and "almost not at all" to the second. As such, it's pretty straightforwardly not a fun class. You can make it work out, but you have to be fairly savvy and use a lot of resources from outside the class. Better to play something with actual appeal.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'll agree that you should go Dragonfire Adept from Dragon Magic over using Dragon Shaman. Even if you multiclass it with a more combat-focused class, you're still better off than using Dragon Shaman. There's even a feat in Dragon Magic that you can use to gain draconic auras just like a Dragon Shaman gets.

Note that a Dragonfire Adept can pick all 24-hour duration invocations and buff himself (and his party, with Endure Exposure) before putting on any armor. Your breath weapon is unaffected by arcane spell failure for armor, so there's absolutely no drawback to wearing armor and using a shield with a Dragonfire Adept. You may suffer nonproficiency penalties, but even that's negligible considering you don't make attack rolls for breath attacks either.

Take the feat Entangling Exhalation in Races of the Dragon and wear full plate with a tower shied, and just spam breath attacks to keep every opponent debuffed and your party will love you.

[Red_Dog]

1. What new things does this class let me do instead of attacking every round?

2. If none or few, how much better does it make me at attacking every round?

*Claps slowly*... Bravo sir, this made me laugh ^^.

=================================================>

Now on to point.

A simple issue is that you can't really fight[3/4 BAB], have no casting, have stat independent auras[Unlike Marshal's minor auras yours don't get better with some stat] or any abilities [besides breath, see below] that scale & your skill list stinks. Even dragon magic varient and additional auras do not really fix this.

Breath is THE only thing you get that's ok-ish, because it can be augmented with meta breath feats. You will also have to be dragonblooded to get the sweetest augmentation - Entangling Breath [from Races of Dragon].

So you trade everything you could have for a mediocre breath weapon that at best will entangle people. This is about as bad as Soulknife's "I have a weapon" pitch line... Its not AS bad, but that's pretty close.

Also, you really really do NOT play well with others. As in, you won't multiclass well bar your regular Barbarian dip for pounce or fighter dip for feats & etc.

If you like an idea to be impressed so much by a dragon that you dedicate your life to that one vision, consider playing ANY other class with that as your back story ^^ Jokes aside, there are fair amount of classes that are Dragon related, both "evil", "good" and "neutral".

But Good luck regardless ^^

[Tvtyrant]

The Dragon Shaman can actually be quite good at blasting, but little else. The usual trick to this that I know of is to play a Dragonborn with the breath feature, and use it with Entangling Breath every round after the first. The first round you lay down every single metabreath you have on a single gigantic blast which would look sorta like this:


http://www.blazetech.com/Products___Services/Fires_and_Explosions/Magnesium_Fire/mgflare.jpg

[gorfnab]

If you must play a Dragon Shaman, at least read through this handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214007).

[Igneel]

I was told by my DM that I shouldn't take this class, he couldn't explain since his shift started right before his last message (email).

So what is wrong with it?

Is there a good multiclass with it?

It is woefully subpar in the department of what it is supposed to do [turning you into a dragon] compared even to the Dragonfire Adept.

*You get 3/4 BaB, so your right up there with the Cleric for the early levels until they get spells that buff them beyond even a fighter.
*No spellcasting, where as at least the Dragonfire Adept gets invocations/SLA and the ability to Use Magic Items.
*Auras that could use a drastic amount of rework compared to the Marshals, and people complain about the Marshal not being that good either. At the very best your Vigor takes some of the healing load off the Cleric, but not by much and not for many levels.
*Skills stink. Honestly I think Fighters are almost better in that department. Only reason why I say almost is because it depends on the Totem you worship.
*Breath weapon is the only 'good' thing, and its a 1d4 recharge breath you get at 5th level. If your dragon-savvy, a Dragonfire adept could become a Dragonborn of Bahamut (or get the Power Surge feat from a Dragon Magazine) at first level and be able to do that. While its true a 20th level Dragon Shaman deals an extra die in damage using his breath compared to the base breath of a Dragonfire Adept, if you went the evil route a DfA can use the Fivefold Tiamat breath to do 9d6x5 instead of its normal 9d6. Not to mention there are ways to get additional damage to this total [Dragon Spirit Cincture (MIC) for 1d6 per energy, Breath of Syberis feat for a max +2d6 damage, etc]
*Out of all the totems, in my opinion the only one worth while is the Copper. Acid breath is one of the 4 elements (second to electricity) that has the least resistance/immunity, it gets a Spider Climb SLA it can eventually share (by then a wizard can fly) and that's about it.
*Wings at 19th level is the same thing people complained about with the Favored Soul. Lets face it, Dragonborns with the Wing option get a flight speed by 5th, Raptorans at 6th, Dragonwrought Kobolds can get a feat at 3rd that gives them wings, Wizards/Sorcerers get fly around lvl 5, Dragonfire Adepts can get an invocation that grants flight at 6th, are you getting the pattern?

All in all, the Dragon Shaman (and for that matter the other classes in PHB2) could of been done better in several ways. There are several remakes/fixes/what have you that make it loads better. My current favorite is the Wyrmlord (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=224235), it at least turns you into a dragon.

[Gnaeus]

Much like other weak classes, it is actually pretty good in a gestalt.

Good HP, Decent BAB, some party buffing, some healing, the chassis isn't bad. The problem is that it doesn't actually have anything useful to do! It kind of needs a high umd + a generous DM to drop some really useful wands & staves or some over WBL super-weapon in order to help it have something that allows it to contribute on its turn.

[Draz74]

The Dragon Shaman can actually be quite good at blasting, but little else. The usual trick to this that I know of is to play a Dragonborn with the breath feature, and use it with Entangling Breath every round after the first. The first round you lay down every single metabreath you have on a single gigantic blast which would look sorta like this:

Warning: This strategy doesn't work if Rules Compendium rules are in use.

[Manateee]

If you must play a Dragon Shaman, at least read through this handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214007).
For some reason, I was expecting the 339 handbook. Which was a fun thread for many reasons beside the ones intended.

Typically Dragon Disciple is at most a 1-level dip for the Vigor Aura.

If you're looking to quickly inject Dragon-related abilities into a melee character, a dragonborn ceremony and a 2-level dip into Totemist using the Dragonblooded Soulmelds from Dragon Magic is typically going to pack more into 2 levels than the Dragon Shaman gets in 20.

[Tvtyrant]

Warning: This strategy doesn't work if Rules Compendium rules are in use.

In what fashion? I don't own the compendium, so you are going to have to explain this one to me.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

In what fashion? I don't own the compendium, so you are going to have to explain this one to me.

It clarifies that if you have multiple different breath weapons, they all share a 1d4 round cooldown, similar to how a Silver Dragon has both a Cone of Cold and a Cone of Paralysis that share the 1d4 round limitation.

[Tvtyrant]

It clarifies that if you have multiple different breath weapons, they all share a 1d4 round cooldown, similar to how a Silver Dragon has both a Cone of Cold and a Cone of Paralysis that share the 1d4 round limitation.

Typical WotC, removing any impediment to magics domination of the game. Well, it won't affect my games since I do not own that book, but you are quite correct that it would ruin the Dragon Shaman tactic I posted above.

[Draz74]

It clarifies that if you have multiple different breath weapons, they all share a 1d4 round cooldown, similar to how a Silver Dragon has both a Cone of Cold and a Cone of Paralysis that share the 1d4 round limitation.

Worse than that, actually, IIRC. It doesn't change the DFA's normal recharge time of "zero," but it does make it so any Metabreaths you apply delay the recharge of all of your breath weapons, regardless of their normal recharge times.

(And yes, it also states that the Silver Dragon's breaths are both on the same timer, but that's a tangent.)

[RedWarlock]

Worse than that, actually, IIRC. It doesn't change the DFA's normal recharge time of "zero," but it does make it so any Metabreaths you apply delay the recharge of all of your breath weapons, regardless of their normal recharge times.

(And yes, it also states that the Silver Dragon's breaths are both on the same timer, but that's a tangent.)

Guys, that bit about multiple breath weapons on the same timer is in the MM.


Once a dragon breathes, it can't breathe again until 1d4 rounds later. If a dragon has more than one type of breath weapon, it still can only breathe once every 1d4 rounds.

[Jopustopin]

I was told by my DM that I shouldn't take this class, he couldn't explain since his shift started right before his last message

I've actually had a DM tell me that I couldn't take the class because the class was "broken to all hell." Specifically the "infinite healing" part of the class spooked him.

There could be a host of reasons why your DM told you not to play the class. The rest of the players could be wizard, archivist, cleric, artificer; which would be a really good reason not to play the class.

So it could be for a concern to party balance. I assume his shift didn't last three days and would be interested in hearing why he told you not to play one.