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Tulya
2012-02-17, 06:48 AM
Generic Dualclass

Hit Die: Alternate HD from both classes in order of primary class, then secondary class.
Base Attack Bonus: Alternate BAB from both primary and secondary base classes in order of primary class, then secondary class, using fractional BAB calculations.
Saving Throws: Alternate save bonuses from both primary and secondary base classes in order of primary class, then secondary class, using fractional saving throw calculations. Exception: You do not get any extra +2 bonus for the first level in this class from good saves.

Class Skills:
All skills from primary and secondary base classes.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: Average skill points of both base classes + int modifier; or, Alternate skill points from both base classes in order of primary class, then secondary class.

Requirements:
One level in two base classes.

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Progresses Classes

1st|+A|+A|+A|+A|A, B

2nd|+B|+B|+B|+B|A, B

3rd|+A|+A|+A|+A|A

4th|+B|+B|+B|+B|B

5th|+A|+A|+A|+A|A, B

6th|+B|+B|+B|+B|A, B

7th|+A|+A|+A|+A|A, B

8th|+B|+B|+B|+B|A

9th|+A|+A|+A|+A|B

10th|+B|+B|+B|+B|A, B

11th|+A|+A|+A|+A|A, B

12th|+B|+B|+B|+B|A, B

13th|+A|+A|+A|+A|A, B

14th|+B|+B|+B|+B|A

15th|+A|+A|+A|+A|B

16th|+B|+B|+B|+B|A, B

17th|+A|+A|+A|+A|A, B

18th|+B|+B|+B|+B|A, B

[/table]

Class Features:
Select one primary base class (A) and one secondary base class (B) from base classes you already have when you take the first level of this class. Once you have designated each base class, you can never change them. Prestige classes and other abilities are never progressed this way. This feature can never be progressed by any other source.
All class features of the primary base class progress on levels marked with an A. All class features of the secondary base class progress on levels marked with a B.

Special Notes:
You are never considered to be having levels in this class for any other purpose. Rather, you are treated as if you had gained levels in your primary and secondary classes when they would be considered individually, or the sum of your primary and secondary classes up to a maximum of your total hit dice minus levels in other classes when they would be considered together, or your total character level when your total level would be considered. Adjust specific calculations that produce unintended results as needed.
For example, a level 1 Wizard / Level 1 Cleric / Level 18 Cleric-Wizard Dual Class is considered a level 16 Wizard for any purposes calculating a Wizard level, a level 16 Cleric for any purposes calculating a Cleric level, having 20 levels in caster classes for purposes of determining total levels in caster classes, and is character level 20. A level 1 Wizard / Level 1 Cleric /Level 1 Warblade / Level 17 Cleric-Warblade Dual Class would instead be considered a level 15 Warblade individually, a level 15 Cleric individually, a 20th level character, having 19 total levels in caster classes, and 18 total levels in martial adept classes, with an initiator level of 17 for Warblade maneuvers.

Percent of total character level progression statistics:
{table=head]Character Level|Class Level|A Progress|A Progress %|B Progress|B Progress %|Average Progress %

2|0|1|50%|1|50%|50%
3|1|2|67%|2|67%|67%
4|2|3|75%|3|75%|75%
5|3|4|80%|3|60%|70%
6|4|4|67%|4|67%|67%
7|5|5|71%|5|71%|71%
8|6|6|75%|6|75%|75%
9|7|7|78%|7|78%|78%
10|8|8|80%|7|70%|75%
11|9|8|73%|8|73%|72%
12|10|9|75%|9|75%|75%
13|11|10|77%|10|77%|77%
14|12|11|79%|11|79%|79%
15|13|12|80%|12|80%|80%
16|14|13|81%|12|75%|78%
17|15|13|76%|13|76%|76%
18|16|14|78%|14|78%|78%
19|17|15|79%|15|79%|79%
20|18|16|80%|16|80%|80%
[/table]


Epic Generic Dualclass

{table=head]Level|Progresses Classes

19th|A
20th|B
21th|A, B
22th|A, B, Epic Bonus Feat
23th|A, B
24th|A, B
25th|A
26th|B, Epic Bonus Feat
27th|A, B
28th|A, B
29th|A, B
30th|A, B, Epic Bonus Feat
31th|A
32th|B
33th|A, B
34th|A, B, Epic Bonus Feat
35th|A, B
36th|A, B
37th|A
38th|B, Epic Bonus Feat
[/table]

===


Generic Tripleclass

Hit Die: Alternate HD from all three classes in order of primary class, then secondary class, then tertiary class.
Base Attack Bonus: Alternate BAB from all three base classes in order of primary class, then secondary class, then tertiary class, using fractional BAB calculations.
Saving Throws: Alternate save bonuses from all three classes in order of primary class, then secondary class, then tertiary class, using fractional saving throw calculations. Exception: You do not get any extra +2 bonus for the first level in this class from good saves.

Class Skills:
All skills from primary, secondary, and tertiary classes.
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: Alternate skill points from all three base classes in order of primary class, then secondary class, then tertiary class.

Requirements:
One level in three base classes.

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Progresses Classes

1st|+A|+A|+A|+A|A, B, C

2nd|+B|+B|+B|+B|A, B

3rd|+C|+C|+C|+C| A, C

4th|+A|+A|+A|+A| B, C

5th|+B|+B|+B|+B|A, B, C

6th|+C|+C|+C|+C| A, B

7th|+A|+A|+A|+A| A, C

8th|+B|+B|+B|+B| B, C

9th|+C|+C|+C|+C| A, B,

10th|+A|+A|+A|+A| A, C

11th|+B|+B|+B|+B| B, C

12th|+C|+C|+C|+C| A, B

13th|+A|+A|+A|+A| A, C

14th|+B|+B|+B|+B| B, C

15th|+C|+C|+C|+C| A, B

16th|+A|+A|+A|+A| A, C

17th|+B|+B|+B|+B| B, C

[/table]

Class Features:
Select one primary base class (A), one secondary base class (B), and one tertiary base class (C) from base classes you already have when you take the first level of this class. Once you have designated each base class, you can never change them. Prestige classes and other abilities are never progressed this way. This feature can never be progressed by any other source.
All class features of the primary base class progress on levels marked with an A. All class features of the secondary base class progress on levels marked with a B. All class features of the tertiary base class progress on levels marked with a C.

Special Notes:
See Generic Dualclass.

Percent of total character level progression statistics:
{table=head]Character Level|Class Level|A Progress|A Progress %|B Progress|B Progress %|C Progress|C Progress %|Average Progress %

3|0|1|33%|1|33%|1|33%|33%
4|1|2|50%|2|50%|2|50%|50%
5|2|3|60%|3|60%|2|40%|53%
6|3|4|67%|3|50%|3|50%|56%
7|4|4|57%|4|57%|4|57%|57%
8|5|5|63%|5|63%|5|63%|63%
9|6|6|67%|6|67%|5|56%|63%
10|7|7|70%|6|60%|6|60%|63%
11|8|7|64%|7|64%|7|64%|64%
12|9|8|67%|8|67%|7|58%|64%
13|10|9|69%|8|62%|8|62%|64%
14|11|9|64%|9|64%|9|64%|64%
15|12|10|67%|10|67%|9|60%|64%
16|13|11|69%|10|63%|10|63%|65%
17|14|11|65%|11|65%|11|65%|65%
18|15|12|67%|12|67%|11|61%|65%
19|16|13|68%|12|63%|12|63%|65%
20|17|13|65%|13|65%|13|65%|65%
[/table]



Epic Generic Tripleclass

{table=head]Level|Progresses Classes

18th|A, B
19th|A, C
20th|B, C
21th|A, B, Epic Bonus Feat
22th|A, C
23th|B, C
24th|A, C
25th|A, B, Epic Bonus Feat
26th|B, C
27th|A, B
28th|A, C
29th|B, C, Epic Bonus Feat
30th|A, B
31th|A, C
32th|B, C
33th|A, B, Epic Bonus Feat
34th|A, C
35th|B, C
36th|A, B
37th|C, Epic Bonus Feat[/table]

===

The core prestige dual-classes are quite clunky in terms of actual gameplay, with an extremely slow and painful start compared to multiclassing in at least AD&D 2e, an inability to adequately capture all of the relevant combinations of base classes, and limited progression of the base class features other than spellcasting. It gets even clunkier when you start looking at non-core base classes with extremely varied HD, BAB, Skill Points, and Class Skills compared to the intended entry classes. That is, a Duskblade/Cleric multiclass is about as far as you can get from the Mystic Theurge prestige class.

These generic multi-class progression are still somewhat clunky, but the overall gameplay experience becomes increasingly smooth past the initial roadbumps. You lose the ability to prestige class effectively, but in fairness, spreading your efforts across multiple classes does not lend itself to specialty prestige classes, and it already covers the hybrid prestige class role. However, these multiclasses are compatible with customization along the lines of racial substitution levels.

These multiclasses are not intended for use alongside other hybrid prestige classes, or other effects and systems that help to smooth multiclassing. That is, a Rogue 1 / Swashbuckler 1 / Rogue-Swashbuckler Dualclass 18 probably should not also have Daring Outlaw, which would allow them to double dip on the multiclassing benefits.
Furthermore, these multiclasses are primarily intended to facilitate combinations with one or more caster classes. However, mundane classes are still likely to end up multiple tiers behind single class full-casters, so it should work out reasonably well in standard parties.

===
Update Notes
Feb 18: Shifted first tripleclass progression delay one level earlier. Both tables updated to reflect the new progression.

Tulya
2012-02-17, 09:33 AM
Sample multiclass templates:


Rogue 1 / Ranger 1 / Rogue-Ranger Dualclass 18
The rogue-ranger dualclass' class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Appraise (Int), Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Disable Device (Int), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Forgery (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (dungeoneering) (Int), Knowledge (geography) (Int), Knowledge (local) (Int), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Open Lock (Dex), Perform (Cha), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Sleight of Hand (Dex), Spot (Wis), Survival (Wis), Swim (Str), Tumble (Dex), Use Magic Device (Cha), and Use Rope (Dex).

{table=head]Level|Class|HP|Skill Points|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Total Progression|Special|1st|2nd|3rd|4th

1st|Rogue|d6|(8 + int) * 4|+0|+0|+2|+0|Rogue 1|Sneak Attack +1d6, trapfinding|-|-|-|-

2nd|Ranger|d8|6 + int|+1|+2|+5|+0|Rogue 1, Ranger 1|1st favored enemy, track, wild empathy|-|-|-|-

3rd|Dual|d6|8 + int|+2|+2|+5|+1|Rogue 2, Ranger 2|Evasion, Combat Style|-|-|-|-

4th|Dual|d8|6 + int|+3|+3|+6|+1|Rogue 3, Ranger 3|Sneak attack +2d6, trap sense +1, endurance|-|-|-|-

5th|Dual|d6|8 + int|+4|+3|+6|+1|Rogue 4, Ranger 3|Uncanny Dodge|0|-|-|-

6th|Dual|d8|6 + int|+5|+4|+7|+2|Rogue 4, Ranger 4|Animal Companion (Ranger levels/2)|0|-|-|-

7th|Dual|d6|8 + int|+6/+1|+4|+7|+2|Rogue 5, Ranger 5|Sneak Attack +3d6, 2nd favored enemy|0|-|-|-

8th|Dual|d8|6 + int|+7/+2|+5|+8|+2|Rogue 6, Ranger 6|Trap Sense +2, Improved combat style|1|-|-|-

9th|Dual|d6|8 + int|+7/+2|+5|+8|+3|Rogue 7, Ranger 7|Sneak Attack +4d6, woodland stride|1|-|-|-

10th|Dual|d8|6 + int|+8/+3|+5|+9|+3|Rogue 8, Ranger 7|Improved uncanny dodge (Rogue levels)|1|-|-|-

11th|Dual|d6|8 + int|+9/+4|+6|+9|+3|Rogue 8, Ranger 8|Swift Tracker|1|0|-|-

12th|Dual|d8|6 + int|+10/+5|+6|+10|+4|Rogue 9, Ranger 9|Sneak Attack +5d6, trap sense +3|1|0|-|-

13th|Dual|d6|8 + int|+11/+6/+1|+7|+10|+4|Rogue 10, Ranger 10|Special ability, 3rd favored enemy|1|1|-|-

14th|Dual|d8|6 + int|+12/+7/+2|+7|+11|+4|Rogue 11, Ranger 11|Sneak Attack +6d6, combat mastery|1|1|0|-

15th|Dual|d6|8 + int|+13/+8/+3|+7|+11|+5|Rogue 12, Ranger 12|Trap Sense+4|1|1|1|-

16th|Dual|d8|6 + int|+14/+9/+4|+8|+12|+5|Rogue 13, Ranger 12|Sneak attack +7d6, special ability|1|1|1|-

17th|Dual|d6|8 + int|+14/+9/+4|+8|+12|+5|Rogue 13, Ranger 13|Camouflage|1|1|1|-

18th|Dual|d8|6 + int|+15/+10/+5|+9|+13|+6|Rogue 14, Ranger 14|---|2|1|1|0

19th|Dual|d6|8 + int|+16/+11/+6/+1|+9|+13|+6|Rogue 15, Ranger 15|Sneak attack +8d6, trap sense +5, 4th favored enemy|2|1|1|1

20th|Dual|d8|6 + int|+17/+12/+7/+2|+10|+14|+6|Rogue 16, Ranger 16|Special ability|2|2|1|1

[/table]


"Red Mage" Fighter 1 / Wizard 1 / Cleric 1 / Wizard-Cleric-Fighter Tripleclass 17
The wizard-cleric-fighter tripleclass' class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Decipher Script (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge (all skills, taken individually) (Int), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Spellcraft (Int), and Swim (Str).

{table=head]Level|Class|HP|Skill Points|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Total Progression|Special

1st|Fighter|d10|(2 + int) * 4|+1|+2|+0|+0|Fighter 1|Fighter Bonus Feat

2nd|Wizard|d4|2 + int|+1|+2|+0|+2|Wizard 1, Fighter 1|Summon Familiar, Scribe Scroll

3rd|Cleric|d8|2 + int|+2|+5|+1|+5|Wizard 1, Fighter 1, Cleric 1|Turn or Rebuke Undead

4th|Triple|d4|2 + int|+2|+5|+1|+5| Wizard 2, Cleric 2, Fighter 2|Fighter Bonus Feat

5th|Triple|d8|2 + int|+3|+6|+1|+6|Wizard 3, Cleric 3, Fighter 3|---

6th|Triple|d10|2 + int|+4|+6|+2|+6|Wizard 4, Cleric 4, Fighter 3|---

7th|Triple|d4|2 + int|+5|+7|+2|+7|Wizard 5, Cleric 4, Fighter 4|Fighter Bonus Feat, Wizard Bonus Feat

8th|Triple|d8|2 + int|+5|+7|+2|+7|Wizard 5, Cleric 5, Fighter 5|---

9th|Triple|d10|2 + int|+6/+1|+8|+3|+8|Wizard 6, Cleric 6, Fighter 5|---

10th|Triple|d4|2 + int|+7/+2|+8|+3|+8|Wizard 7, Cleric 6, Fighter 6|Fighter Bonus Feat

11th|Triple|d8|2 + int|+8/+3|+8|+3|+9|Wizard 7, Cleric 7, Fighter 7|---

12th|Triple|d10|2 + int|+9/+4|+9|+4|+9|Wizard 8, Cleric 8, Fighter 7|---

13th|Triple|d4|2 + int|+9/+4|+9|+4|+9|Wizard 9, Cleric 8, Fighter 8|Fighter Bonus Feat

14th|Triple|d8|2 + int|+10/+5|+10|+4|+10|Wizard 9, Cleric 9, Fighter 9|---

15th|Triple|d10|2 + int|+11/+6/+1|+10|+5|+10|Wizard 10, Cleric 10, Fighter 9|Wizard Bonus Feat

16th|Triple|d4|2 + int|+11/+6/+1|+11|+5|+11|Wizard 11, Cleric 10, Fighter 10|Fighter Bonus Feat

17th|Triple|d8|2 + int|+12/+7/+2|+11|+5|+11|Wizard 11, Cleric 11, Fighter 11|---

18th|Triple|d10|2 + int|+13/+8/+3|+12|+6|+12|Wizard 12, Cleric 12, Fighter 11|---

19th|Triple|d4|2 + int|+14/+9/+4|+12|+6|+12|Wizard 13, Cleric 12, Fighter 12|Fighter Bonus Feat

20th|Triple|d8|2 + int|+14/+9/+4|+12|+6|+13|Wizard 13, Cleric 13, Fighter 13|---
[/table]

Spells Per Day:

{table=head]Level|W0|W1st|W2nd|W3rd|W4th|W5th|W6th|W7th|W8th|W 9th|X|C0|C1st|C2nd|C3rd|C4th|C5th|C6th|C7th|C8th|C 9th

1st|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|X|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
2nd|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|X|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
3rd|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|X|3|1+1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
4th|4|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|X|4|2+1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
5th|4|2|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|X|4|2+1|1+1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
6th|4|3|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|X|5|3+1|2+1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
7th|4|3|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|X|5|3+1|2+1|-|-|-|-|-|-|-
8th|4|3|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|-|X|5|3+1|2+1|1+1|-|-|-|-|-|-
9th|4|4|3|2|-|-|-|-|-|-|X|5|3+1|3+1|2+1|-|-|-|-|-|-
10th|4|4|3|2|1|-|-|-|-|-|X|5|3+1|3+1|2+1|-|-|-|-|-|-
11th|4|4|3|3|1|-|-|-|-|-|X|6|4+1|3+1|2+1|1+1|-|-|-|-|-
12th|4|4|4|3|2|-|-|-|-|-|X|6|4+1|3+1|3+1|2+1|-|-|-|-|-
13th|4|4|4|3|2|1|-|-|-|-|X|6|4+1|3+1|3+1|2+1|-|-|-|-|-
14th|4|4|4|3|2|1|-|-|-|-|X|6|4+1|4+1|3+1|2+1|1+1|-|-|-|-
15th|4|4|4|3|3|2|-|-|-|-|X|6|4+1|4+1|3+1|3+1|2+1|-|-|-|-
16th|4|4|4|4|3|2|1|-|-|-|X|6|4+1|4+1|3+1|3+1|2+1|-|-|-|-
17th|4|4|4|4|3|2|1|-|-|-|X|6|5+1|4+1|4+1|3+1|2+1|1+1|-|-|-
18th|4|4|4|4|4|3|2|-|-|-|X|6|5+1|5+1|4+1|4+1|3+1|2+1|-|-|-
19th|4|4|4|4|4|3|3|1|-|-|X|6|5+1|5+1|4+1|4+1|3+1|2+1|-|-|-
20th|4|4|4|4|4|3|3|1|-|-|X|6|5+1|5+1|4+1|4+1|3+1|3+1|1+1|-|-[/table]


(Under construction)

Barbarian MD
2012-02-17, 12:18 PM
I really, really like this concept. I'll be keeping my eye on this. I don't know enough to make any judgements about balance.

PEACH
2012-02-17, 05:16 PM
One problem I see with this is that anybody who's multiclassing at all has no reason not to take the first two levels in either of these prestige classes. Unless they're taking prestige classes starting at level 2, are going straight class, or (for the triple one) are only going with two classes, there's literally no reason not to take two levels of it. Assuming you're going for a multiclass entrance to PrCs at fifth, it is strictly better to go classY 2/Class X 1/Dualclass 2.

Granted, that does wind up helping out gishes and melee characters more than straight casters, who usually don't want to dip, but it is definitely an option that ups the overall power of the game and very strongly encourages dipping (since a dip in two base classes gets you the equivalent of five levels in one and three in the other).

Tulya
2012-02-17, 05:46 PM
I noticed, but decided it was probably ok in the long run. In fairness, the low power level of many base classes is a fairly strong inducement to dip heavily and prestige out as it is.

My initial thought was to require at least one caster class in a dual or tripleclass, since the poor handling of caster multiclassing sparked the proposal in the first place... but, it seemed like it wouldn't break anything as-is. That, and I trust that anyone looking at homebrew isn't looking to go heavy on the optimization. Those kinds of games don't usually seem open to homebrew.

Absol197
2012-02-17, 05:47 PM
I really like this idea, I just think it needs a little bit of tweaking.

Normally, a two-class character can expect (if she's trying to have both classes be equal) to be 10/10, while a three-class character would expect to be 7/7/6. I would think increasing those by 50%, to 15/15 and 11/11/11 would be the best place to aim for, meaning you're a tad bit high on both (but pretty close). Maybe reign them in a bit.

Related to that, and to help with PEACH's concern, above, you could take the extra level of power off of one of the lower levels, to stop those greedy dippers from getting their candy without more of an investment.

Otherwise, I really like it, and I will be experimenting with what combinations I might be able to make!

Barbarian MD
2012-02-18, 12:57 PM
Suggestion: allow one level of each class in dual classing to be skipped every 5 levels.

For instance, you're using a fighter fix, but you're not thrilled about the features at levels 4, 7, 13, and 18. So you skip over them, allowing you to reach the capstone.

Maybe limit it to only one side, or make it a feat, if there's concern for it being op.

Dead_Jester
2012-02-18, 02:52 PM
I really like this idea, I just think it needs a little bit of tweaking.

Normally, a two-class character can expect (if she's trying to have both classes be equal) to be 10/10, while a three-class character would expect to be 7/7/6. I would think increasing those by 50%, to 15/15 and 11/11/11 would be the best place to aim for, meaning you're a tad bit high on both (but pretty close). Maybe reign them in a bit.

That would make this strictly inferior to taking a dual-class prc (without shenanigans, you'd end up the same, but usually with more features and the versatility of being able to take another prc after).

Even as is, because you never get reach 17th level in a class, for most dual-class builds with a caster in them, it's not as good as what could be achieved with prc. However, the niche for this is still there, and most hybrids should remain relatively balanced compared to their 2 classes (of course, some builds could get ridiculous, but the lack of prc and 9th level spells rein in most of the abuse).

Amechra
2012-02-18, 06:16 PM
I like this; it would be interesting to run a game where this was the only form of multiclassing allowed...

Tulya
2012-02-18, 07:17 PM
I tried a variety of combinations in spreadsheets, but 16/16 felt the most 'right' in the end.

16/16 is primarily for pacing the breakpoints. You get your 3rd level spells just as single class prepared casters get their 4th, your 7th when they get their 9th, and you wrap it up just short of double 9s. Your progression fluctuates up to and a bit under 80% that of a single class character. Much like core-only theurges, you can abandon your secondary class entirely at level 17 to achieve your 17th class level in your primary class at 20.

13/13/13 might not be quite right, or at least the arrangement of it. Somehow, I never really thought to compare the initial progression of the two... and Tripleclassing is no worse for your primary class than Dualclassing in the beginning. You end up with 5th level progression for both at 7th character level...

The dipping problem and the above might be helped a bit by shifting the first delay one level earlier in both progressions.


Suggestion: allow one level of each class in dual classing to be skipped every 5 levels.

For instance, you're using a fighter fix, but you're not thrilled about the features at levels 4, 7, 13, and 18. So you skip over them, allowing you to reach the capstone.

Maybe limit it to only one side, or make it a feat, if there's concern for it being op.

In such cases, I'd actually recommended looking at whether or not the capstone should be a capstone in the first place. Often times, such capstones are insufficient to justify the dirge of respectable class features many levels before them, so players regularly pass them up with little remorse to enter other base classes or prestige classes.

Barbarian MD
2012-02-18, 07:24 PM
I'm thinking primarily of the homebrew melee classes, where capstones are actually capstones.

Allowing you to skip doesn't affect casters (mostly), but would be a boon to certain melee builds.

Tulya
2012-02-18, 08:44 PM
I updated the main version to go ahead and move the progression delay earlier on the triple class, and experimented with some more variations for the tripleclass table. Here's a 13/12/12 version which has an even less explosive beginning.

{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Progresses Classes

1st|+A|+A|+A|+A|A, B

2nd|+B|+B|+B|+B|A, C

3rd|+C|+C|+C|+C|B, C

4th|+A|+A|+A|+A|A, B

5th|+B|+B|+B|+B|A, C

6th|+C|+C|+C|+C|B, C

7th|+A|+A|+A|+A|A, B

8th|+B|+B|+B|+B|A, C

9th|+C|+C|+C|+C|B, C

10th|+A|+A|+A|+A|A, B

11th|+B|+B|+B|+B|A, C

12th|+C|+C|+C|+C|B, C

13th|+A|+A|+A|+A|A, B

14th|+B|+B|+B|+B|A, C

15th|+C|+C|+C|+C|B, C

16th|+A|+A|+A|+A|A, B

17th|+B|+B|+B|+B|A, C[/table]

It concludes asymmetrically, but the 13 in the primary class makes thematic sense. If you take your base classes in the same order, you gain new spell levels in each class exactly every 4 levels after getting the last spell level smoothly throughout the progression - which pretty much characterizes the table. It has a very smooth progression that I'm liking.



I'm thinking primarily of the homebrew melee classes, where capstones are actually capstones.

Allowing you to skip doesn't affect casters (mostly), but would be a boon to certain melee builds.

If you think it doesn't undercut the icing on the cake of being a single class character, then it should be fine. You might instead set the capstones earlier in the classes, but require a minimum character level to gain the benefits of them. It would accomplish much the same effect, but also be more accessible to other official and homebrew systems.

Barbarian MD
2012-02-20, 04:25 PM
New Feat for PEACHing:


Advanced Dual Progression
Pre-requisite: 1 level in Dualclassing.
Benefit: Once per 5/class levels, you may elect to skip a level on one side of your dual-classing progression (these must all occur for the same class). You forfeit any class features from the skipped level and instead gain the class features of the next. The levels must come from each 5 level block (one from Levels 1-5, one from Levels 6-10, one from 11-15, and one from 16-20). This feat is not retroactive.

Example: A Dual Class X/Ranger class progression may look like this:

1) Ranger 1
2) Class X 1
3) (Dual 1) Class X 2/Ranger 2
4) (Dual 2) Class X 3/Ranger 3
5) (Dual 3) Class X 4
6) (Dual 4) Ranger 4 Ranger 5
7) (Dual 5) Class X 5/Ranger 6
8) (Dual 6) Class X 6/Ranger 7
9) (Dual 7) Class X 7/Ranger 8 Ranger 9
10) (Dual 8) Class X 8
11) (Dual 9) Ranger 10
12) (Dual 10) Class X 9/Ranger 11
13) (Dual 11) Class X 10/Ranger 12 Ranger 13
14) (Dual 12) Class X 11/Ranger 14
15) (Dual 13) Class X 12/Ranger 15
16) (Dual 14) Class X 13
17) (Dual 15) Ranger 16 Ranger 17
18) (Dual 16) Class X 14/Ranger 18
19) (Dual 17) Class X 15/Ranger 19
20) (Dual 18) Class X 16/Ranger 20

In the above example, Ranger level 4 (Animal Companion; access to 1 level bonus spells, though gained later), Ranger level 8 (Swift Tracker; access to 2 level bonus spells, though gained later), Ranger level 12 (1 3rd-level spell), and Ranger level 16 (1 2nd-level spell) are sacrificed. Final casting progression at level 20 is 3/2/2/3 + full bonus spells.

Special: This feat may be taken an additional time, though you must have 5 levels in your class beforehand, so you may only skip three levels.

chando
2012-02-21, 09:46 PM
Capstones are rewards and incentives for a PC who stays in a single class for his whole career, or sometimes for taking the whole 10 levels of a PrC. I see no reason for making it so that dual and triple calsses get a capstone, as 16 levels of class abilities in two classes is already pretty sweet.

Barbarian MD
2012-02-21, 10:10 PM
It (my feat) wouldn't work with triple-classing, and as written you could only gain one capstone pre-epic. I don't think it's too much.

Now, you might disagree, and I accept that. Some DMs will allow dual-classing, and some won't (I imagine it will be class-dependent). Some may allow my feat, and others won't. It doesn't offend me.