Point of Non-failing

[Balor01]

So, here is the problem: DM makes an NPC. NPC is rather strong guy, has good saves, decent AC, even has some mage armor, blur, etc spells. First round, he failes a save and PCs kill it.

This can be prevented in at least two ways:
- silly HD, saves, DR/DM, SR, anyway ... silly stuff.

or things like Contingency spell. If NPCs hp drop below 50%, Contingency kicks in and is teleported to wherever. If dimensional anchor is cast - contingency counterspell takes action, etc.

So, what I would like to know is, when does it get viable to have "will not fail to whim of luck" NPC? (or PC for that matter)

Which level, which spells, maybe even - which CR?

[Ashtagon]

Give the NPC action points.

[Psyren]

Which level, which spells, maybe even - which CR?

11+ is when you can start expecting the PCs to have SoDs. Stuff like Slay Living and Flesh to Stone comes online at that level (and in fact there's a whole thread going right now about SoDs in the campaign.

You can also try playing Pathfinder, where SoDs are a lot less swingy and easier to defend against (on both sides.)

EDIT: Well, Slay Living comes online a little earlier, so be vigilant.

[Red_Dog]

Hard to say... It depends on a NPC.

If the NPC is an intelligent antagonist that likes planning, than think of ways that he/she could have foreseen this event. Contingency spells, pre-buffing, support cast to wither and tier the PCs, Being build with coveed saves[Int to reflex, or Charisma to will thru feats are easy starts for a Wizard or a Sorc], Tactical Advantage(surprise, distance, using right attack to attack weakest points) and similar things should mitigate the usual "Agrrr! God Damn ONCES!?!!".

If the NPC is a brute, just try to not have to many gaping holes in his/her defense. Saves can be easily boosted. 2 feat Combo [Endurance & Steadfast Determination] will give Con mod to Will Saves and prevent 1s on Fort[as in, you can NOT autofail fort save]. Iron Will & Indomitable Soul combo let you roll 2d20 and pick the highest for will. Right equipment helps too. Armor augmenting Crystals can be shoved into rings of deflection[as far as I know] and provide cheap boost to saves in question.

Than of course there are Luck Feats from Complete Scoundrel for anyone really who can afford them/wants them. For an NPC they can be quite a nice investment as they won't be using them that often ^^.

Hope this helps. And remember, "Agrrr! God Damn ONCES!?!!" is part of the game. Try having more than one remarkable Antagonist in the game to maximize you chance to role-play them more ^^

Good Luck! ^^

[Aotrs Commander]

I use a system whereby a creature that is supposed to be a party-threat has a template, taking a leaf out of 4E solo template. Each application of which gives it one free reroll - at the price of effectively getting an unremovable -1 to all actions - and another block of hit points, which it can choose to expend a whole block of to remove or negate SoDs, SoL or SoS, if need be (a bit like an Iron Heart Surge effect, sorta).

This has worked great. The PCs actually have to whittle the BBEG away, and it means even the most binary So(x) are not completely negated on a failed save (and if anything, encourages them to save them for use as "finishers"). It also pretty much scales to any level, with the number of applications giving you the level of threat. One or two is nice for BBEGs with minions (against a party of six characters); three or four (or more, though I've not gone that far yet) against a whole party on their own. (Though I've run boss-monsters with three or four applications at Epic levels with supporting minions.)

It makes them actually last long enough to make the encounter interesting, without a) expending so much DM effort trying to cover every SoD, b) completely negative all the So(x) and c) having an enemy well above the PC's level offensively.

And heck, a bog-standard Kobold with triple or quadruple maximum hit points (i.e. 24-32), and the ability to laugh off one or two 1st level SoLs (e.g. Colour Spray, Sleep) is quite a threat for 1st level PCs, without being able to dish out more damage than they can handle.

[Telonius]

Will saves usually have ways to be avoided (mind blank, etc). Reflex is a bit harder, but (usually) somewhat less dangerous to fail. Fortitude is where it gets really deadly. There is a way around this for any character level 10th or higher: get the Martial Study feat to gain the "Mind over Body" maneuver. Martial Study has no prerequisites, and neither does Mind over Body. You count as an initiator of half your level, and Mind over Body is available to 5th-level initiators. Once per encounter, it allows you to make a Concentration check instead of a Fortitude Save. This is especially useful to casters, who usually have a fairly high Concentration bonus. Skill Check results go up faster than saves do, and you can't auto-fail on a 1. It won't prevent loss due to a spammed spell, but it's great if you know you absolutely need to make that save.

A more feat-intensive way to do this is to take the "Survivor's Luck" feat from Complete Scoundrel. That one requires a 9th-level character and one other Luck feat. One advantage this has is that the reroll can be for any save, not just Fort. But it's only once per day, not once per encounter, and still relies on a save (which can still auto-fail if the dice really hate you that day).

[prufock]

So, what I would like to know is, when does it get viable to have "will not fail to whim of luck" NPC? (or PC for that matter)

Which level, which spells, maybe even - which CR?

Depends on your build. Level 1 cleric can have the Luck domain for one reroll per day.
Two level clerics can each have the Luck and Destiny domains to get 2 rerolls per day each.

[Zaranthan]

You can pile up the rerolls and action points and contingencies to the sky. At the end of the day, nothing is more effective than NOT USING SINGLE MONSTER ENCOUNTERS. BBEGs have minions. They don't send out those minions to get eaten by the party, then march down alone to get eaten themselves. They send the minions out five seconds before charging out to support them.

Single monster encounters are EXTREMELY swingy. Either the monster wins initiative and kills somebody before they get a turn, or the party wins initiative and nails the monster with four of their most powerful attacks in a row. It just doesn't work. If nothing else, at least have the NPC open up with a few summon spells. No fodder = dead villain.

[Bakkan]

A suggestion that I've heard (though I've never used it myself) is to have tough enemies act more than once per round. This helps to mitigate the difference in the action economy somewhat. So a miniboss might act twice a round; once on his rolled initative +5 and once on his rolled initiative -5, for example. A BBEG might act three times a round, at rolled initative +10, rolled initiative, and rolled initiative -10. It's an interesting idea I'd like to see implemented in a game sometime.

[FMArthur]

Pump their Will and Fortitude saves in some way.

The Mind Over Body and Moment of Perfect Mind maneuvers are both very useful for this, since they replace one of those saves with a Concentration check (which offers both numerical superiority and has no chance to auto-fail). If you can afford the skills to pump the BBEG's Concentration, you could shore up a weakness in one by grabbing a Ring of the Diamond Mind; if both are lacking you can pick up the other with a Martial Study feat.

For a non-martial adept it's 1/encounter each, but that's enough to put a stop to an instant PC victory.

[Curmudgeon]

At the end of the day, nothing is more effective than NOT USING SINGLE MONSTER ENCOUNTERS. BBEGs have minions. ...

Single monster encounters are EXTREMELY swingy. Either the monster wins initiative and kills somebody before they get a turn, or the party wins initiative and nails the monster with four of their most powerful attacks in a row. It just doesn't work.
This is the key. Don't put all your eggs in one basket. More enemies means more flexibility for the DM. I always like to start with a small group, but have reinforcements available. Do try to make these sorts of situations have a rationale that works in the setting, or things tend to be predictable. It's fine for a strong scouting party to return and start flanking the PC party when the players were getting cocky about picking off a lightly defended camp; that's consistent with nomadic raider culture. That also makes it possible for the DM to delay, or even forego, the arrival of reinforcements when the players are rolling poorly; the players don't need to know the wheels are turning in the DM's head to keep the game fun. But having two more soldiers appear every third round as the PCs try to break into a fortress, purely to avoid a TPK situation, isn't plausible; after a few minutes a major force should respond and overwhelm the invaders. If the PCs rush into a situation that's beyond their capabilities (and the DMG says fully 5% of all encounters should be of "overpowering" difficulty), the consequences should show that. In D&D, death is a learning experience.

[Thurbane]

You also have to be careful how many "I win!" or "I escape!" buttons you give a BBEG. There's a balance between having a tough, recurring villain; and have players feel like they are fighting Deus-ex-machina supreme, and nothing they do will ultimately have any effect, unless they beat the BBEG in exactly the specific way the DM has pre-planned.

[Lonely Tylenol]

At 6th level, a [Class of choice] 2/Warblade 4 has three 1st-level maneuvers, two 2nd-level (or less) maneuvers, and one 3rd-level (or less) maneuver, plus a 1st-level stance and a 3rd-level (or less) stance.

You can make these:

1st: Moment of Perfect Mind (Counter - make a Concentration check in place of a Will Save)
1st: Stone Bones (Strike - gain DR 5/Adamantine until the start of your next turn)
1st: Steel Wind (Strike - attack two foes)
1st: Punishing Stance (Stance - +1d6 damage, -2 AC)
2nd: Wall of Blades (Counter - make an attack roll in place of your AC)
2nd: Action Before Thought (Counter - make a Concentration check in place of a Reflex Save)
3rd: Mind over Body (Counter - make a Concentration check in place of a Fortitude save)
3rd: Roots of the Mountain (Stance - gain +10 bonus against bull rush, trip, overrun, etc., plus DR 2/-)

And, if you so chose, you could take as your 6th level feat Martial Study (Iron Heart Surge) to gain:

3rd: Iron Heart Surge (Remove effect, gain +2 morale bonus on attacks)

Build your Big Bad with 18 Strength and 18 CON and put max ranks into Concentration, and suddenly he has a +13 bonus to all his saves (1/encounter or until he refreshes his maneuvers, which is a swift action after performing a regular attack action, so basically 1/turn), plus DR 5/Adamantine for a turn (or DR 2/- for the encounter plus an ungodly bonus to opposed combat maneuver checks), plus you can make attack rolls for AC, and so on and so on. With two levels of Rogue, this character has Evasion, but with three of Hexblade, it has Mettle (and you can tack on a Ring of Evasion for added benefit), and basically says "no" to everything that offers a save.

If you make those first two levels Barbarian (say, the Whirling Frenzy variant), then if you decide that you're punishing your party too harshly on the defensive end, then you can enter into your rage (/ferocity/whirling frenzy) and go on the offensive. Suddenly, your character is vulnerable to saves (since he can no longer make Concentration checks), but swings like a truck (so the people that were trying to get up close suddenly want to run far away, and the people that were far away suddenly want to come up close and have another go at him) and can get three attack actions on a full-round action (at a +4/+4/-1 in place of normal Base Attack Bonus, but note the bonus to Strength). Suddenly, the very defensive baddie is a force to be reckoned with, and not only can he now be taken out, but he has to be taken out quickly--not only does he have killing force now, but when his rage expires, he goes back to being a defensive pariah (albeit slightly weaker than before due to the -2 penalty on Strength and Dexterity). Even his Hit Points are nothing to sneeze at; 6d12+24(+ any racial, template, or item bonuses) averages out to about 60, even if you don't max first level for non-PCs, and a little DR and energy resistance can go a long way with that.

For added hilarity, add a race or template with innate DR (replacing Stone Bones and Roots of the Mountain as needed), a decent Natural Armor bonus (replacing Wall of Blades as needed), or energy resistances or immunities (Martial Stance (Flame's Blessing) could also give you Fire Resistance 10, but you'd need to take a Desert Wind maneuver, such as Burning Blade, as a Martial Study feat first); or, give them a powerful magic item that allows them to replicate some of these effects (or others, such as Protection from Arrows).

The best part? At 5th or 6th level, a party might not be equipped to handle certain kinds of DR, or overcome every problem the defenses of such an enemy might pose to them (like those saves). Even with the loss in action economy, a character of this type can pose a challenge to an entire party of equivalent-level adventurers (depending on their level of optimization, of course).