[3.5] How does the Archivist gain access to non-cleric spells?

[Myou]

Is it purely by taking spells from the domain lists for clerics? If so, does that mean there are a significant number of spells he can't gain access to, or are there so many domains out there that he can get almost any spell given a co-operative DM?

[Amphetryon]

Is it purely by taking spells from the domain lists for clerics? If so, does that mean there are a significant number of spells he can't gain access to, or are there so many domains out there that he can get almost any spell given a co-operative DM?

All he needs is for the spell to be written down on a scroll, and to appear on a divine caster list somewhere; whether they are Cleric spells or Domain spells is irrelevant. Given the existence of certain other PrCs with esoteric lists (Trapsmith, for Haste at 1st level, for example) and feats such as Southern Magician that create a greater Arcane/Divine transparency, an Archivist can cast any spells, given sufficient resources and time.

[Psyren]

There are scrolls of any other divine caster's list - Druid scrolls, Adept scrolls, even Ranger and Paladin scrolls. The Archivist can learn them all.

Even very obscure variants like Divine Bards have their own scrolls; Warlocks can craft these even if they don't otherwise exist in a campaign world.

Finally (and with sufficient cheese), you can teach them arcane spells too (though this isn't as useful as it sounds.)

[The-Mage-King]

Really, all that's needed is him to work with an Artificer. That way, he can have ALL the spells in the world. Yes, even that one.





See, the "type" of scroll created is determined by the lead creator, and he can have the help of another caster for spell requirements... Well, you see where this is going.


Not that cheesy, honestly. Just something commonly overlooked.

[hydraa]

Though a artificer's scrolls are neither Divine or Arcane per the errata

[Benly]

Practically speaking, there's not a lot you'd want to go for that isn't on the list of either an existing divine class or one of the dozens of domains floating around. It's up to you to decide whether you want Shivering Touch enough to risk annoying your DM with "well technically there might be an arctic Southern Magician who made a scroll of it once so I should be able to buy it".

[RaggedAngel]

Though a artificer's scrolls are neither Divine or Arcane

Yeah, errata ruined that little trick, but it didn't take it away from Craftlocks. I never understood why they made it harder for Artificers to help out other casters, but then casters already have enough going for them.

[Akto]

Practically speaking, there's not a lot you'd want to go for that isn't on the list of either an existing divine class or one of the dozens of domains floating around. It's up to you to decide whether you want Shivering Touch enough to risk annoying your DM with "well technically there might be an arctic Southern Magician who made a scroll of it once so I should be able to buy it".

{Scrubbed} is already on the cleric list, so that is the least of problems

[Timeless]

One level 12 warlock with the right feats + time = every divine spell ever for an archivist.

[Psyren]

He can learn all spells, true. But he can still only prepare divine ones, so knowing all the arcane spells in the world isn't quite as helpful as it sounds.

He can make the scrolls artificially divine, but not the spells.

[Greenish]

Though a artificer's scrolls are neither Divine or Arcane per the errataThat's why it'll be the archivist scribing the scroll. The artificer will just help by "supplying the spell".

[Benly]

{Scrub the original, scrub the quote} is already on the cleric list, so that is the least of problems

This is what I get for not checking first. When I was posting I thought "hmm, wait, do clerics get Shivering Touch? Eh, not worth checking."

I've got to say it doesn't exactly undermine the point of "there's not really a whole lot you need to go outside of regular divine spells for", though. :smallsmile:

[Akto]

This is what I get for not checking first. When I was posting I thought "hmm, wait, do clerics get Shivering Touch? Eh, not worth checking."

I've got to say it doesn't exactly undermine the point of "there's not really a whole lot you need to go outside of regular divine spells for", though. :smallsmile:

you are correct there, i am playing one atm. and with just a bit of research there are almost not that spell i can't find in a divine variant...

[Treblain]

In theory, any divine caster in your campaign world could have taken Scribe Scroll and made scrolls of their spells. Clerics can make divine scrolls of domain spells, so those are good. Druid and Adept scrolls shouldn't be that hard to find, and paladin and ranger scrolls might also exist. I wouldn't expect divine bard spells are available unless divine bards specifically exist in your world, since it's a variant class. Warlocks and Chameleons can also craft scrolls of any divine class. And last but not least, don't forget that other archivists probably go around gathering spells, too. They can scribe and sell scrolls for you and cut out the middlemen.

But it all takes time, planning, and DM cooperation. Don't forget that, and don't whine to your DM all the time about wanting to 'discover' random spells you like.

[DrDeth]

But it all takes time, planning, and DM cooperation. .

And huge amounts of pelf.

[Myou]

Thanks for the explanations, everyone. :smallsmile:


But it all takes time, planning, and DM cooperation. Don't forget that, and don't whine to your DM all the time about wanting to 'discover' random spells you like.

I'm the DM. I'm planning on starting a new game after a long break, and I'm updating and relaxing my house rules.

[Thurbane]

Hexer PrC means pretty much any Sorc/Wiz spell is fair game for scribing as a divine scroll.

I enforce a house rule (queue howls of outrage) that if a spell appears on the Cleric list as well as for another class, it defaults to being the same level spell as it is for a Cleric.

[Myou]

How did I manage to type 'hoes' in the thread title? :smallconfused:


Hexer PrC means pretty much any Sorc/Wiz spell is fair game for scribing as a divine scroll.

I enforce a house rule (queue howls of outrage) that if a spell appears on the Cleric list as well as for another class, it defaults to being the same level spell as it is for a Cleric.

Sounds like I'm going to need to make some sort of similar ruling.