OOTS #838 - The Discussion Thread

[The Giant]

New comic is up.

Running a little behind on the "daily" aspect; this is technically Friday's strip. So expect another one late tonight.

[hamishspence]

Roy's "Eh" is a great finisher.

[OoTLink]

friggin standing ovation over here. Awesome. XD

[fergo]

Draketooths? Nale and Tarquin? :smallfrown:

[fan4battle]

Eh. Nice one! :smallbiggrin:

[Chess435]

How's that burning pile of wax doing?

[Caesar]

The update schedule is blowing my mind!! (I hope this isnt the last spurt to the finish line, but we all know it probably is :smallfrown::smallfrown:)

Duhn duhn DUHN!!!

Also, "Freshmouth" ahahahahah... Belkar, I hope you never die.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

Nice. Seconds away from going to bed, and BAM! New OotS!

Belkar is being very useful. He will die soon... Just a guess, but it's:

What's that?
Oh, nothing...

[i6uuaq]

always nice to be online when a new comic goes up.

makes the compulsive refreshing worth it.

:smallsmile:

[skaddix]

The update schedule is blowing my mind!! (I hope this isnt the last spurt to the finish line, but we all know it probably is :smallfrown::smallfrown:)

Duhn duhn DUHN!!!


finish is not that close still one more gate. defeating team evil. defeating tarquin.

great issue especially the conversation at the end

[Sunken Valley]

Yes, two a day (hopefully)

Heh, Freshmouth.

[Roland Itiative]

Did Belkar just... track? The end-times is nigh indeed. At least for the Belkster. Looks like his final "burn" will be the fact the Order will actually start liking him when he goes :smalltongue:

[Caesar]

finish is not that close still one more gate. defeating team evil. defeating tarquin.

great issue especially the conversation at the end

All of whom are meeting up at said gate in this canyon... :smallannoyed:

[Tricia]

Silly Haley...every adventurer knows Always Go Left.

...or maybe that's just my gaming group. But still!

[Aurorax]

Another foreshadowing of Belkar's death?

[Roland Itiative]

All of whom are meeting up at said gate in this canyon... :smallannoyed:

It's really unlikely that the Order will be victorious when there's another Gate to be seen, among with other unsolved mysteries around (the IFCC's plan for the Gates, the world within the world, Durkon's posthumous return to the dwarven lands, etc). This Gate will probably be where Tarquin's rule will end, and maybe also the end of the Linear Guild, but Team Evil will certainly survive and move forwards to the last Gate. As Elan would put it, drama dictates it.



Silly Haley...every adventurer knows Always Go Left.

...or maybe that's just my gaming group. But still!
... Someone else follows that rule? :smalleek: I have a friend who does, and it ended up becoming an habit for me too.

[Aurorax]

Silly Haley...every adventurer knows Always Go Left.

...or maybe that's just my gaming group. But still!

From the old Wizardry school..."Contra Dextra Avenue" Werdna Rules....

[Cruiser1]

Note that Haley is incorrect about the Right-Hand rule. The statement, "we always take the rightmost path that we haven't explored yet - eventually we should see every part that way", doesn't work in all cases. If a Maze has a passage loop that goes all the way around the goal you're trying to reach, then it can't be solved by taking right hand turns all the time. In such a Maze, wall following will lead you around the loop, but never contact the goal. Wall following always keeps you touching the same "island" of walls, where passage loops put sections of the Maze on different islands.

To solve a Maze with loops, you need something like Tremaux's Algorithm (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maze_solving_algorithm), however that requires marking the Maze, and as the characters suggested, marks like breadcrumbs may be removed. Hence following Belkar's nose really is the best course of action. :smallsmile:

[Cisturn]

Sweet! This is so much better than the Saturday morning cartoons I used to watch!

[Michaeler]

Okay, 'fess up, how many people's right hands twitched when they read the first panel?

[Valyrian]

Just want to say the current update rate is amazing! Thanks Giant.

Fortunately we aren't used to daily updates too much so this delay doesn't matter at all :smallsmile:

I like that this strip addresses the morality of Kobold mind control. And Elan's suggestion was the first "Elan does something stupid" joke I really had to laugh about in a while.

[Giddon]

Actually I had the same reaction as V...I was asking myself what electromagnetic or Momentum vectors had anything to do with their situation

[M.A.D]

Lol and there I was thinking something perverted until I remembered that there really was a rule loke that for mazes.

Again, thanks fo the update, Giant!!

[fergo]

Speculation following my previous post:

I don't think it'll be the Linear Guild. Why would their smell be so bad that Belkar thinks it remarkable?

Then again, it doesn't really hint towards the Draketooths either... I can't really think of any reason they would smell especially strongly (unless he just means there's a lot of them).

So my guess is for some third party. Gannji and Enor sprung to mind, but I think that's more because their thread got bumped recently than anything else :smalltongue:. And that's missing the obvious: they're not human.

It's not Xykon, because the whole human things (and even zombies are out, because Roy specifically mentioned corpses).

Ian is possible: Belkar has a history of commenting on his smell. But I think Belkar would be able to tell if it's some specific human he'd met before (I'm thinking of him recognising Nale by smell back in Azure city).

Any thoughts?

[Jetty]

Is it just me, or is Roy being excessively violent in the past few strips? It's kinda disheartening. His eyebrows are is so furrowed!

[MyNameIsSecret]

Its funny that the characters are talking about smell... when they don't have noses. :smallbiggrin:

Also, great comic once again, Giant.

[Adanedhel]

I love V's reactio, showing once more why he and Redcloak are my favourite characters of OotS ^^

[scienceguy8]

Before someone inevitably asks: close your right hand in a fist with your thumb sticking straight out. The direction of your thumb represents the vector of current flow through a wire, while your fingers point in the direction the magnetic field lines wrap around the wire.

[Chess435]

Also, got an ETA for the next Kickstarter update?

[Crod]

Great physics reference by V. Didn't get it until the second reading.

[Emulgator]

Ian is possible: Belkar has a history of commenting on his smell. But I think Belkar would be able to tell if it's some specific human he'd met before (I'm thinking of him recognising Nale by smell back in Azure city).


Well, he is travelling with Elan for a long time. It's possible that he memorizes scents after some time, but I doubt that he is clever enough to match the scent with someone he doesn't spend much time around - his mental stats aren't exactly high after all.

And Draketooth would propably protect his ilusions from something so easy. He's epic after all. So I have no idea about the identify of the person.

[Eldray]

Any ideas on how any human could smell worse than a sweaty gladiator, according to halfling senses?

Magically enhanced smell, possibly designed for Serini's sense of smell?
Simple illusion designed to lead intruders to a trap?
Belkar is actually Girard's illusion and he's leading them to him or to a trap?
The MitD, which is smelly and might count as human due to shapeshifting?
Belkar is simply wrong about it?

[Spacewolf]

Before someone inevitably asks: close your right hand in a fist with your thumb sticking straight out. The direction of your thumb represents the vector of current flow through a wire, while your fingers point in the direction the magnetic field lines wrap around the wire.

I thought the right hand rule was having the index, middle and thumb sticking out at right angles to each other sort of like _l. with the dot being the thumb coming out of the top

[M.A.D]

Speculation following my previous post:

I don't think it'll be the Linear Guild. Why would their smell be so bad that Belkar thinks it remarkable?

Then again, it doesn't really hint towards the Draketooths either... I can't really think of any reason they would smell especially strongly (unless he just means there's a lot of them).

So my guess is for some third party. Gannji and Enor sprung to mind, but I think that's more because their thread got bumped recently than anything else :smalltongue:. And that's missing the obvious: they're not human.

It's not Xykon, because the whole human things (and even zombies are out, because Roy specifically mentioned corpses).

Ian is possible: Belkar has a history of commenting on his smell. But I think Belkar would be able to tell if it's some specific human he'd met before (I'm thinking of him recognising Nale by smell back in Azure city).

Any thoughts?

Well, it's most probably not the LG since Belkar has smelled hem before, and it's definitely not Team Evil. What we're having here is a bunch of people who smells worse than 20 sweaty and oily gladiators *shivers*

It could be Girard's group. I imagine spending 60 years in th middle of the dessert without anyone but themselves an a natural shortage of water could do that to them

[Kish]

Silly Haley...every adventurer knows Always Go Left.

...or maybe that's just my gaming group. But still!
It doesn't ultimately matter whether you pick Left or Right. As long as you stick to it, you'll wind up back at where you started eventually.

Except when, oh I don't know, illusions are in play.

[fergo]

Magically enhanced smell, possibly designed for Serini's sense of smell?


Good thinking. Of course Girard is extremely paranoid, but it'd add an extra (and interesting) dimension if he trusts Serini enough with the location of his super-secret gate, something that was meant to be kept secret (although she knew them all anyway, and we know the two other members of the Scribble didn't quite stick to this rule...).

It'd be kind of funny if Soon was the only one who actually bothered cutting himself off completely from the other ex-members, when ultra-paranoid Girard is ok trusting at least some people.

Still, I don't see why they would artificially create the smell of humans, that would attract the attention of any creatures with a better-than-human sense of smell in the vicinity. Surely there has to be another way to guide Serini in, if that's what the smell's for after all.


Simple illusion designed to lead intruders to a trap?

That, of course, is another possibility :smallannoyed:. Stay cheerful.


:smalltongue:

[edit] to add my next post to this one. I assumed someone else would post while I was typing. Sorry for the momentary double post :smallbiggrin:.




It could be Girard's group. I imagine spending 60 years in th middle of the dessert without anyone but themselves an a natural shortage of water could do that to them

True... and we still don't have any evidence for the Order's assumption that they've been making trips into town, to spend money or for any other purpose.

On the other hand, we know Orrin gets himself about, so I think it'd be safe to assume there isn't some ultra-strict rule on never leaving the desert.

And Girard travelled with Serini. He knows what halflings' sense of smell is like; I'm sure he would take this into account when defending his Gate.

[Dr._Demento]

Before someone inevitably asks: close your right hand in a fist with your thumb sticking straight out. The direction of your thumb represents the vector of current flow through a wire, while your fingers point in the direction the magnetic field lines wrap around the wire.

That is one version, I personally use 3 fairly regularly.


I thought the right hand rule was having the index, middle and thumb sticking out at right angles to each other sort of like _l. with the dot being the thumb coming out of the top

That is another (more general) way of doing it (as right hand rules are really about keeping you dot and cross product directions straight)

The three versions I use (which I have found are slightly different than standard curriculum):

1. Thumb current, fingers wrap as field lines
2. Fingers wrapping as the current moving through a solenoid, the thumb is the direction of the magnetic field withing the solenoid.
3. A flat hand, thumb extended. The fingers represent the field lines, the thumb represents the current, and the palm is the direction of the force.

Oh, and I read right hand rule, and I jumped to both the maze tactic and the physics trick at the same time, and prepared myself for the incoming commentary that was bound to happen. (Although I also normally think of the rule as going to the left, but that doesn't work with the joke ;) )

and finally, I love Roy's punchline, because one of my favorite sources of humor is calculated indifference.

[RMS Oceanic]

I liked that Elan answered his own question regarding the breadcrumbs. :smalltongue:

[kierthos]

I rather enjoyed the recitation of the weaknesses of human senses.

[Yendor]

I liked that Elan answered his own question regarding the breadcrumbs. :smalltongue:

At least they weren't eaten by iron bars.

[CoffeeIncluded]

Oh thanks for giving me flashbacks to my AP physics class. :smalltongue:

[RMS Oceanic]

At least they weren't eaten by iron bars.

And the clowns went unpunched. :smallbiggrin:

[Belril Duskwalk]

This comic brings to mind a Lord of the Rings moment. "When in doubt Master Merriadoc, always follow your nose."

[Kato]

PHYSICS!

Nice comic. Humans really got screwed over with their senses in D&D... How do we rule the planet again? :smallbiggrin:

But the last joke was to be expected. :smallsmile:

[Ron Miel]

All of whom are meeting up at said gate in this canyon... :smallannoyed:

Note - they are looking for where Orrin lives. Girard might not be here, and the gate itself is almost certainly somewhere else. The gate is shown (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html)as being in open desert, with the mountains some distance away. It isn't here, unless the whole canyon is an illusion.

[Yuki Akuma]

PHYSICS!

Nice comic. Humans really got screwed over with their senses in D&D... How do we rule the planet again? :smallbiggrin:

Numbers, breeding cycle speed and ambition born from short lives. :smallwink:

Unless you mean in the real world, in which case meta-cognition capable brains, binocular vision, ludicrous stamina and thumbs.

[Hamiltonz]

I like this dialog. It feels like the sort of discussion that would naturally happen within a group of people that had been traveling together for a long time.

[fergo]

Note - they are looking for where Orrin lives. Girard might not be here, and the gate itself is almost certainly somewhere else. The gate is shown (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html)as being in open desert, with the mountains some distance away. It isn't here, unless the whole canyon is an illusion.

That was narrated by Sojo, who was told it by Soon, who had been given the wrong location by Girard.

To be fair, though, Soon had presumably been at the site of the rift anyways, so he would have remembered if it was in a canyon, so it's a good point...

[Xianthe]

Note - they are looking for where Orrin lives. Girard might not be here, and the gate itself is almost certainly somewhere else. The gate is shown (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html)as being in open desert, with the mountains some distance away. It isn't here, unless the whole canyon is an illusion.

But remember, Girard lied to Soon about the location of his gate, and the Secret Lore of the Sapphire Guard is based on what Soon told his paladins.

I'm willing to accept the possibility that our initial information of the location of Girard's Gate is similarly misinformed.

ETA: Ninja'd. This is why I never post in these things :)

[fergo]

But remember, Girard lied to Soon about the location of his gate, and the Secret Lore of the Sapphire Guard is based on what Soon told his paladins.

I'm willing to accept the possibility that our initial information of the location of Girard's Gate is similarly misinformed.

ETA: Ninja'd. This is why I never post in these things :)

:smalltongue:

I agree, though. I think we're up for a couple of startling revelations about what we've been told via the crayons of time.

Besides that, there's more to the Scribble than we've been told. Rich said as much in one of his interviews.

Basically, I'm saying there's no way of knowing what's going on, but that should never be a deterrent to mass baseless speculation! :smallamused:

[Shale]

Or the canyon isn't really there.

Although when you get into epic illusions, "really there" is a matter of interpretation.

[Ron Miel]

Note that Haley is incorrect about the Right-Hand rule. The statement, "we always take the rightmost path that we haven't explored yet - eventually we should see every part that way", doesn't work in all cases. If a Maze has a passage loop that goes all the way around the goal you're trying to reach, then it can't be solved by taking right hand turns all the time. In such a Maze, wall following will lead you around the loop, but never contact the goal. Wall following always keeps you touching the same "island" of walls, where passage loops put sections of the Maze on different islands.


Unless you are an adventurer. Adventurers map the tunnels as they go. If they are led around in a loop, the map shows it.

[RMS Oceanic]

PHYSICS!

Nice comic. Humans really got screwed over with their senses in D&D... How do we rule the planet again? :smallbiggrin:

You'd be surprised how far a bonus feat can take you.

[The MunchKING]

You'd be surprised how far a bonus feat can take you.

+1Skill point per level doesn't hurt either!

[FlawedParadigm]

Numbers, breeding cycle speed and ambition born from short lives. :smallwink:

Unless you mean in the real world, in which case meta-cognition capable brains, binocular vision, ludicrous stamina and thumbs.

Also; sophisticated use of complex tools and machines. Not to mention capacity for invention, and the use of things like books and the internet to pass down almost our entire racial knowledge base through the ages. Granted, a lot of this is a byproduct of having opposable thumbs, but hey.

[Pheldagriff]

Unless you are an adventurer. Adventurers map the tunnels as they go. If they are led around in a loop, the map shows it.

I used to be an adventurer like you, but then I got an arrow to the knee

[Hendel]

Silly Haley...every adventurer knows Always Go Left.

...or maybe that's just my gaming group. But still!

Sorry, my group has always used "choosing the right" as both a guide for moral questions and dungeon exploring!!

[Shadowcaller]

You'd be surprised how far a bonus feat can take you.

Don't forget having favored class: any.

[Ron Miel]

But remember, Girard lied to Soon about the location of his gate, and the Secret Lore of the Sapphire Guard is based on what Soon told his paladins.

Girard lied about the exact co-ordinates of the gate. But Soon would certainly know the difference between a canyon and open ground. (As Fergo pointed out, in fact)

[Horizon]

You know, why is Belkar still with the Order of the Stick? He's not carrying his Mark of Justice any more (and he knows it), and they're constantly harshing his "if it moves, kill it" groove. Is he just following them around through habit? Because that doesn't really seem to fit Roy's "controlling him through intangible means" line.

[Tundar]

Hahaha, I love comment from Roy: Eh
Quite fitting, too!

[Shale]

You know, why is Belkar still with the Order of the Stick? He's not carrying his Mark of Justice any more (and he knows it), and they're constantly harshing his "if it moves, kill it" groove. Is he just following them around through habit? Because that doesn't really seem to fit Roy's "controlling him through intangible means" line.

He realized that if he doesn't at least pretend to be a part of society, somebody's going to end up tearing out his squishy bits sooner or later. And the Order already puts up with him, so why not stick with a good thing?

[fergo]

And the Order already puts up with him, so why not stick with a good thing?

Awesome stealth pun :smallcool:.

[Spacewolf]

I get the feeling that Vs' behaviour towards the kobold is simply to stop Belkar killing him

[Ron Miel]

You know, why is Belkar still with the Order of the Stick?

It's a whole thing (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0612.html).

That's what loyal teammates do for each other. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0613.html)

[Morgan Wick]

It'd be kind of funny if Soon was the only one who actually bothered cutting himself off completely from the other ex-members, when ultra-paranoid Girard is ok trusting at least some people.

And also telling about Soon and how justified Girard's paranoia may have been.


Note - they are looking for where Orrin lives. Girard might not be here, and the gate itself is almost certainly somewhere else. The gate is shown (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0277.html)as being in open desert, with the mountains some distance away. It isn't here, unless the whole canyon is an illusion.

Nope - Redcloak said they were going to Windy Canyon. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0833.html) Considering the possibility of magical wind and Girard's specialties, I think "the whole canyon is an illusion" is rather plausible.

[Shale]

Awesome stealth pun :smallcool:.

It's what I do.

[Smolder]

Well, it's most probably not the LG since Belkar has smelled hem before, and it's definitely not Team Evil. What we're having here is a bunch of people who smells worse than 20 sweaty and oily gladiators *shivers*

Consider that Girard and the Draketooth family have been living in this canyon for decades. In reality, there would have to be a garbage dump somewhere down there.



Humans really got screwed over with their senses in D&D... How do we rule the planet again? :smallbiggrin:

Because we don't have halflings to contend with?

[AngelusAlvus]

Allow me to say you are awsome to give us so many updates in a row.
You rock, Giant.

[Raven777]

What is this daily updating this week? What is this sorcery? Where is Rich Burlew and what have you done to him?

Also, is it just me or is Belkar actually an excellent tracker and just too dumb to put the skill to use properly?

[Dracarot]

MIght it perhaps be Ian and Geoff that Belkar is smelling, we have no real idea of who this Aunt Ivy is, if we take in the possibility she's at least alighned with Girard theres is the chance the three have also entered the windy canyon. Further as Ian and Geoff are fresh out of slavery their smell might be more noticeable.

[BaronOfHell]

Running a little behind
So much not complaining!:smallbiggrin:

Looking forward to the next strip, please have fun and enjoy!

[Chaotic Queen]

Hahaha.

:elan: Can't we drop bread-crumbs, like that story where they dropped bread-crumbs but the birds ate them all and they got lost and... nevermind-I-get-it.

I think our lovable bard is getting smarter.

[RaggedAngel]

This is one of the most solid strips that I've seen in months. I'm sincerely impressed that forcing out a strip a day has not only not decreased your quality, but produced some of the best strips we've gotten for a while. Good show, Giant. :smallsmile:

Also, I just went over the Right Hand Rule yesterday. Eerie.

[Querzis]

Also; sophisticated use of complex tools and machines. Not to mention capacity for invention, and the use of things like books and the internet to pass down almost our entire racial knowledge base through the ages. Granted, a lot of this is a byproduct of having opposable thumbs, but hey.

Honestly, I feel like its very important to add laziness to that list. Chimps or gorilla could just as easely have ruled the world, they are as smart as us and everything. But when chimps wanna kill something, they dont build weapons for it, beating them up work just as well, it just take more effort. Just think about how many inventions were not at all about our intelligence as much as making our lives easier. Hell, do you know why humans are the only apes without fur? Cause we were too lazy to clean ourselves and ended up with lots of bacteria and parasites in our furs. No really, look it up.

[Anarion]

I'm a little worried about that comparison. Belkar may be horrible in a number of ways, but he is with the Order willingly, at least for some definition of willing that includes selfishness and survival instinct.

YukYuk, on the other hand, is magically bound and I would be highly surprised if between them Tarqin, Malack, Z, and Nale didn't have some way to dispel that magic mid-battle.

Concerning.

[hamishspence]

Chimps or gorilla could just as easely have ruled the world, they are as smart as us and everything. But when chimps wanna kill something, they dont build weapons for it, beating them up work just as well, it just take more effort. Just think about how many inventions were not at all about our intelligence as much as making our lives easier. Hell, do you know why humans are the only apes without fur? Cause we were too lazy to clean ourselves and ended up with lots of bacteria and parasites in our furs. No really, look it up.



Some chimps do build very crude tools.

Link please to the "too lazy to clean" theory- I've never heard it before, and I've seen quite a few more plausible theories, including one about a semi-aquatic phase

(explaining why the direction our body hairs lie is different from that of other primates, and why we have much more fat under the skin than they do.)

[Ron Miel]

MIght it perhaps be Ian and Geoff that Belkar is smelling ... ?

Probably not. He can recognise the individual scent of people he knows (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0383.html). If it were Ian and Geoff, he'd be able to say 'Ian and Geoff are here.'

[hamishspence]

Hell, do you know why humans are the only apes without fur? Cause we were too lazy to clean ourselves and ended up with lots of bacteria and parasites in our furs. No really, look it up.

I've looked it up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hair#Human_.22hairlessness.22

but the theory doesn't say "too lazy to wash" it says "living in too dense groups".

[LordRahl6]

Ohh the right hand rule that was a nice one liner.:smallwink: Did like the last panel that reveals that Roy could be talking about either Yuk-yuk or Belkar.:smallamused:

[The Shadow]

I'm surprised at V. The best-known Right Hand Rule doesn't have to do with electromagnetic vectors specifically, but with cross-products of vectors generally.

There is another Right Hand Rule that deals with currents, but it's somewhat lesser-known.

EDIT: And Belkar complaining about other people's weak senses is pretty rich. Mr. 'I think I failed a spot check.'

[t209]

Elan's genre savviness stikes again. From Hansel and Gretel.
P.S- I hope haley got the message from Hinjo about the fall of resistance. I want her to say like
Viktor Reznov from Black Ops when she meets Redcloak.

[ThePhantasm]

What is this daily updating this week?

It is one of the rewards of the Kickstarter Drive. Rich is posting one comic a day until the end of the drive.

[Riverdance]

Woohoo I understand the right-hand rule joke! The way I learned it, the real right-hand rule states that if current is traveling in the direction of your thumb, than there will be a circular magnetic field around the wire circling in the direction of your fingers. I suppose the magnetic field lines could be referred to as electromagnetic vectors, and either way it sounds more like something V would say.

[Kancsar]

Hahaha.

:elan: Can't we drop bread-crumbs, like that story where they dropped bread-crumbs but the birds ate them all and they got lost and... nevermind-I-get-it.

I think our lovable bard is getting smarter.

yes, if only the Greek-influenced Eastern Gods had not been killed by the Snarl, then Elan's Bardic Knowledge could have drawn on successful labyrinth defeating legends such as Ariadne's ball of yarn. but then again, Theseus didn't have a cat animal companion.

[Gift Jeraff]

Elan always thinks about leaving behind a trail of breadcrumbs. Nale doesn't. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0387.html) This is why they are opposites.

[Querzis]

Some chimps do build very crude tools.

Link please to the "too lazy to clean" theory- I've never heard it before, and I've seen quite a few more plausible theories, including one about a semi-aquatic phase

(explaining why the direction our body hairs lie is different from that of other primates, and why we have much more fat under the skin than they do.)

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn3807-early-humans-lost-hair-to-beat-bugs.html

And they dont just «build very crude tool». They can learn sign language faster then humans, they can do arts (and we're not just talking about throwing paints on a canvas here, look up that painting gorilla who painted, among other things, her pet dog after it died and a very good abstract painting of love) and got their own language that scientists are only barely beginning to understand (while some can understand our language quite well). Look up crows too, unlike other apes, crows are indeed lazy and would have taken over the world if they had thumbs. The more I read about them the more they creep me out, it aint for nothing that they are bad omen in so many cultures, clever little bastards.

[Cynric]

Another foreshadowing of Belkar's death?

Hmmm... probably. Although the in the in-comic year has taken over three to play out, so there's still no rush.

On that subject, does anyone else think Belkar might meet Tsukiko in the evil afterlife and learn something of Redcloak's scheme?

[JSSheridan]

Thanks Giant!

[hamishspence]

Again, as I said before:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hair#Human_.22hairlessness.22
the theory doesn't say "too lazy to wash" it says "living in too dense groups".

Density of groups, not "laziness" caused the ectoparasite buildup.

The "if chimps want to kill something, they don't make weapons for it, they just beat them up"

claim was what I was disputing. Tools for killing other animals, are a kind of weapon.

"Humans only took over the world because they were lazy and have thumbs"

seems to me to be misapplying the word "lazy".

[phantomreader42]

Roy's "Eh" is a great finisher.

Looks like Roy can manage some good surprise burns of his own. :smallbiggrin:

[chondrus]

Again, as I said before:

Density of groups, not "laziness" caused the ectoparasite buildup.

seems to me to be misapplying the word "lazy".

Having done research more than wikipedia on ectoparasites, I also question the "laziness" factor for losing fur - ectoparasites were a near-constant part of human life until the 1700s (and spread much disease), to the point where scientists have estimated the time for when humans started wearing clothes based on the evolution of body lice. And head lice could simply stay in the hair we had left.

The point: losing fur would not seem like it would help with the ectoparasite problem at all.

Density of groups does have a lot to do with bugs, though, so that seems entirely reasonable. =p


But, anyway, awesome comic! woooo daily-ish updates! woo kickstarter!

[rbetieh]

That Belkar, sight and hearing not so good, but taste and smell are fantastic. Now I have to wonder about the other sense as well....

[Red XIV]

And the entire Order still neglects the fact that they're looking for the lair of an Epic-level illusionist.

You'd think that at least Roy, who's the son of a high-level illusionist himself, would know better than to take everything at face value when dealing with illusion-based defenses.

[The MunchKING]

ectoparasites?? We've got GHOST BUGS now??

[fergo]

To be fair on them, they have been repeatedly told about the canyons by third parties. Yes, it's possible that the Draketooths have kept the illusion up so long that the locals can't remember a time that it wasn't there and so believe it's a genuine piece of scenery and it's been added to all the maps.

Or, you know, he could just be using his illusions to add to the canyons instead of create them completely. Just thought of that. Would make much more sense :smallredface:.

Still, it's not that unreasonable that the Order thinks that everything is as it seems.

Of course, I would still say that there will be some illusion-ness at work, but it may not be quite as obvious to the Order.

But you're probably right :smalltongue:.

[Dracarot]

Um this may be a dumb question but is Roy Right or left handed? Or is he ambidextrous? He keeps switching which hand his sword is in. That might just be an art preference but I am curious as to why the sword keep's switching hand.

Note I aware that it is a two handed sword and that when the battles actually occur he uses both I'm just plain curious.

[MaximKat]

The update schedule is blowing my mind!! (I hope this isnt the last spurt to the finish line, but we all know it probably is :smallfrown::smallfrown:)


Rich said in the podcast that, while we're over the midpoint already, there are at least several books worth of plot left. So I wouldn't worry about the end being too close.

[Flame of Anor]

What is this daily updating this week? What is this sorcery? Where is Rich Burlew and what have you done to him?


It's the Kickstarter, man, contribute!

[MaximKat]

We already knew that V is has ranks in Knowledge (Electromagnetism)
http://www.giantitp.com/Images/VaarsuviusMagnet.jpg


Um this may be a dumb question but is Roy Right or left handed? Or is he ambidextrous? He keeps switching which hand his sword is in. That might just be an art preference but I am curious as to why the sword keep's switching hand.

Note I aware that it is a two handed sword and that when the battles actually occur he uses both I'm just plain curious.

Because some of sprites are mirrored copies of others. If you look carefully, you'll notice that his boots also change places.

[Forikroder]

Any ideas on how any human could smell worse than a sweaty gladiator, according to halfling senses?

Magically enhanced smell, possibly designed for Serini's sense of smell?
Simple illusion designed to lead intruders to a trap?
Belkar is actually Girard's illusion and he's leading them to him or to a trap?
The MitD, which is smelly and might count as human due to shapeshifting?
Belkar is simply wrong about it?
the gladiators spent a couple weeks tops in a pit and got oil to cover themselves in, perhaps slightly scented oil that smells kinda nice

aside from Ian and Geoff the lifespan of a gladiator isnt high so they dont have the time to really get much of a smell

but a group of adventurers could get lost in the windy caverns for years, eternally trapped by illusions and the natural terrain only still alive by conjuring food and water

[Themrys]

Um this may be a dumb question but is Roy Right or left handed? Or is he ambidextrous? He keeps switching which hand his sword is in. That might just be an art preference but I am curious as to why the sword keep's switching hand.

Note I aware that it is a two handed sword and that when the battles actually occur he uses both I'm just plain curious.

The sword is heavy. If I would have to carry it, I would switch hands, too. :smallwink:

[zegram 33]

i choose to guess that enor and gannji are the ones they are tracking, and escaped there after their games

[Kish]

You choose to guess that when Belkar says he smells humans, he means he smells a lizardfolk and a half-dragon who--depending on how you interpret the phrasing--is at most a quarter human?

[Forikroder]

my bet is its Ian and Geoff who thought the windy cavern would be a great place to hide jsut like they thought prison was a good place to recruit allies

[Doug Lampert]

Don't forget having favored class: any.

Favored class ANY can easily be worse than having a favored class.

A character with a 3/3/1 split of classes with favored class ANY has a multiclassing penalty, because he DOES NOT get to choose which class is favored,
•Favored Class: Any. When determining whether a multiclass human takes an experience point penalty, his or her highest-level class does not count.

Meanwhile a race with the level 1 dip class favored and a 3/3/1 split of classes has no multiclassing penalty.

[Tobimaro]

I used to be an adventurer like you, but then I got an arrow to the knee

There's a pill (or a first-level clerical spell) for that. :smallwink:

Anyways, like the update. Belkar is still good for something. But that usefulness has it's limitations.

[Blackdrop]

Any ideas on how any human could smell worse than a sweaty gladiator, according to halfling senses?

Magically enhanced smell, possibly designed for Serini's sense of smell?
Simple illusion designed to lead intruders to a trap?
Belkar is actually Girard's illusion and he's leading them to him or to a trap?
The MitD, which is smelly and might count as human due to shapeshifting?
Belkar is simply wrong about it?

Dead, rotting human corpses?

[Kish]

Favored class ANY can easily be worse than having a favored class.

A character with a 3/3/1 split of classes with favored class ANY has a multiclassing penalty, because he DOES NOT get to choose which class is favored,

Meanwhile a race with the level 1 dip class favored and a 3/3/1 split of classes has no multiclassing penalty.
I think "I want to play a multiclassed non-fighter dwarf" comes up a little more often than, "I want to play a tri-classed no-prestige-class human with two classes tied for lead and the third one way behind."

Not to mention that double multiclass penalty/no multiclass penalty difference between, say, an elf fighter 3/rogue 1/ranger 1 and a human fighter 3/rogue 1/ranger 1.

[Gusion]

I think the most likely explanation that people are neglecting is that Belkar's new tracking ability may just be as a result of leveling up. So he put points in survival. Good for him.

As to why it is stronger than the gladiators, I think context is important. In the city he was surrounded by it. Out here in the desert most of the air is clean - so a single powerful source of odor would be more noticeable.


That said, strictly speaking what he's doing requires the extraordinary ability: Scent. I am certainly not bothered by Giant bending the rules here though, I've always thought the way D&D handles scent wasn't very good.

[Enero Irontoad]

What is the spell used to mask scent that Roy was talking about?

[Forikroder]

What is the spell used to mask scent that Roy was talking about?

i think its a spell that only exists in that world where people go to school to learn magic instead of spontaneously existing at adult age with knowledge of some low level spells

[SaintRidley]

Or the canyon isn't really there.

Although when you get into epic illusions, "really there" is a matter of interpretation.

Heck, you don't even need epic illusions to get to the point where illusions are more real than reality.

[cloudland]

It's great to see the plot is moving quite along nicely with new comics everyday. The Giant is giving us a special treat it seems. Good job.

I think that Belkar is not capable of discerning the identity of the smell of people he met before very well. He was able to tell Roy from Ms.Roy, but that's probably because he felt that the smell is too familiar, and there is only one a woman in blue armor can resemble. He can tell Nale from Elan because he have been with Elan long enough to tell that the smell is not Elan's and there is only one who looks exactly identical to Elan. Thus, quite possible that they are Ian, considering he escaped into the desert, and a canyon is probably better than a open desert if they're trying to hide. However, note that the canyon is 2 days of flight away, and I don't know if Ian have enough Survival to get that far in 3 days (the Order spent 2 days flying and 1 day waiting for V).
If it is not an illusion, this person might be someone new. We don't see all 9 sides of the conflict yet isn't it? (OOTS, Redcloak, Xykon, Tiamat's underling, Tarquin, LG is the most I can see).
From the Crayon of Time, we also see that Soon is the only one who oppose the rest of the team. So it's of no surprise that Girard still kept contact with the rest of the team. Beside, he only said to distrust authority figure, rather than distrust everyone. Not just that, Serini also said that they all should set up divination magic to detect whenever the other gates are destroyed, so Girard family probably already know about Azure gate's fate, I doubt they would think the paladin broke their words now, they can't be THAT paranoid right?
Anyone remember the strip with Scruffy discover a scrying attempt? Could it be just Zzdtri, or is it Girard family?
Human are not good at GPS-accuracy in coordination. So they can make a map, walk in circle, and still completely oblivious that they are walking in circle. Especially when the maze looks identical enough so that they can't recognize they are back at the start.
Also, I wouldn't be surprise if OOTS stumble into somewhere looks exactly like Dungeon of Dorukan next. The feel of dungeon crawling is back, now just need a bunch of illusionary goblin or Trigak to complete the feel.
As for Right-hand rule, it's defined that way is because the cross-product is defined based on matrix's determinant, and determinant is define in such a way that it's normalized (ie.the determinant of identity matrix is 1). Because of how we conventionally define the Cartesian coordinate (z vector is the result of right hand rule of x vector and y vector), it ends up that cross-product is right-hand rule. Magnet is merely current, so when you're working with magnetism you're really just working with current. Magnetic field is a short-hand to make calculation easier, so it really doesn't matter whether right-hand rule or left-hand rule is use, you can use either and it work out just fine. Electromagnetism is somehow more related to right-hand rule, because it seems at first sight the only part where right-hand rule seems "real" (ie. magnet appeared to be more "real" than say, vector for rotational motion). V is good at physics because she ruins its rules everyday, but not necessarily maths. Maths is Nale's specialty.

[Flame of Anor]

i think its a spell that only exists in that world where people go to school to learn magic instead of spontaneously existing at adult age with knowledge of some low level spells

It's in the Spell Compendium. I don't recall what it's named, though.

[Absol197]

It's in the Spell Compendium. I don't recall what it's named, though.

The PHB spell pass without trace also eliminates the scent (and footprints) of 1 creature/level for an hour/level. The only problem is that it's a druid/ranger spell, so a clan of wizards is unlikely to have unlimited access to it.

[V Junior]

Hmmm! I bet it's either Nale, Tarquin or Girard. Or all three. Or Girard's followers (that "we" he mentioned).

Say, is it possible to create an illusion that affects smell? I mean, just in case Girard thought ahead and thought "oh, a halfling or someone else with a good sense of smell might turn up".

[Red XIV]

A character with a 3/3/1 split of classes with favored class ANY has a multiclassing penalty, because he DOES NOT get to choose which class is favored,
Why would you want to do a triple multiclass? So you can be like Nale and be a poorly-optimized Bard-wannabe?

[Diadem]

To be fair, though, Soon had presumably been at the site of the rift anyways, so he would have remembered if it was in a canyon, so it's a good point...
You bring up a good point. As far as we know from the flashback, the Scribble travelled around the world, searching for these holes and defeating whoever attempted to use them for their own goals, until they found a way to build the gates.

So every member of the Scribble must have been aware of every location of every gate. So how could Soon have been given a wrong location?

Perhaps we haven't been told everything. But Soon was a Paladin, so his account must be truthful (at least as far as he knows). Unless he was a fallen Paladin? Hmm. But then the Sapphire Guard really was guarding a gate, so the rest of the Scribble must have trusted Soon enough to let him guard a gate.

The entire story is somewhat vague anyway. Considering the stakes, it seems strange that they would deceive eachother like that. Besides we know Lirian and Durokan kept in touch. He build an exemption into his Cloister spell just so he could summon her.

[Shale]

Because it's a long way from "I know the rift is in that freaking huge desert on the Western Continent" to "I can tell you its exact longitude and latitude from memory." Maybe it wasn't in a canyon when they found it, but epic illusionist.

[cloudland]

You bring up a good point. As far as we know from the flashback, the Scribble travelled around the world, searching for these holes and defeating whoever attempted to use them for their own goals, until they found a way to build the gates.

So every member of the Scribble must have been aware of every location of every gate. So how could Soon have been given a wrong location?

Perhaps we haven't been told everything. But Soon was a Paladin, so his account must be truthful (at least as far as he knows). Unless he was a fallen Paladin? Hmm. But then the Sapphire Guard really was guarding a gate, so the rest of the Scribble must have trusted Soon enough to let him guard a gate.

The entire story is somewhat vague anyway. Considering the stakes, it seems strange that they would deceive eachother like that. Besides we know Lirian and Durokan kept in touch. He build an exemption into his Cloister spell just so he could summon her.

He could have moved the gate. The whole point of RC's ritual is to move a gate, so pretty sure it can be moved. Girard probably tell Soon the true coordinate of the original location (and lied that he roll percentage dice for that), but ask Dorukan to move the gate somewhere else.

[MyNameIsSecret]

Um this may be a dumb question but is Roy Right or left handed? Or is he ambidextrous? He keeps switching which hand his sword is in. That might just be an art preference but I am curious as to why the sword keep's switching hand.

Note I aware that it is a two handed sword and that when the battles actually occur he uses both I'm just plain curious.

I was thinking about this myself, but it's just an art thing. When the Giant flips the image over, the sword changes hand.

[The MunchKING]

What is the spell used to mask scent that Roy was talking about?

Presitidigitation would be my guess.

[Forikroder]

Because it's a long way from "I know the rift is in that freaking huge desert on the Western Continent" to "I can tell you its exact longitude and latitude from memory." Maybe it wasn't in a canyon when they found it, but epic illusionist.

or perhaps Girard raised the windy caverns

Durkon built his huge fortress, and the halfling built a large dungeon, whos to say Girard didnt make the windy caversn (out of stone not illusion) then enhanced it with magic?

[dps]

You bring up a good point. As far as we know from the flashback, the Scribble travelled around the world, searching for these holes and defeating whoever attempted to use them for their own goals, until they found a way to build the gates.

So every member of the Scribble must have been aware of every location of every gate. So how could Soon have been given a wrong location?

Perhaps we haven't been told everything. But Soon was a Paladin, so his account must be truthful (at least as far as he knows). Unless he was a fallen Paladin? Hmm. But then the Sapphire Guard really was guarding a gate, so the rest of the Scribble must have trusted Soon enough to let him guard a gate.

The entire story is somewhat vague anyway. Considering the stakes, it seems strange that they would deceive eachother like that. Besides we know Lirian and Durokan kept in touch. He build an exemption into his Cloister spell just so he could summon her.

Giraud was handling the mapping duties for the Order of the Scribble. So while they all knew the general location of the rifts (and thus the gates), only Giraud had the exact coordinates recorded.

[Ron Miel]

only Giraud had the exact coordinates recorded.

And Serini too.

[Incom]

It must be very difficult to write a story arc based on an epic illusionist, when any arbitrary thing could be "lol nope illusion". A sufficiently strong illusion can do a lot of work, though, so it'd be hard to justify Girard not going all "lol nope illusion" on EVERYTHING... so a savvy PC wouldn't believe anything, so Girard would leave a few real obstacles here and there... and then it gets worse than the whole "not-nale" scene.

Luckily, Rich has proven to be an excellent writer so far. I think he can pull this off.

d(^_^)b

[Burner28]

Interesting strip!

[Mutant Sheep]

The PHB spell pass without trace also eliminates the scent (and footprints) of 1 creature/level for an hour/level. The only problem is that it's a druid/ranger spell, so a clan of wizards is unlikely to have unlimited access to it.

Meh, Girard had a few levels of ranger and probably has a level 14 ranger in his clan. :smallamused:

[Omergideon]

I am very much in 2 minds about this strip. Compared to the previous ones it advances the story very little. The smell thing is new info yes, but really this strip could be skipped almost entirely and no plot would be missing. However it is a fairly entertaining bit of banter between members of the order. Everyone gets something to say or do and it is otherwise fairly fun. So two minds. It feels like, and I hesitate to say it, padding to meet the 1/day quota at the moment. But padding, or filler, is not always bad. This is entertaining enough that I don't mind at all. But onto the real review.

The Good:
1) Everyone does something. Seriously, Elan has a funny qup, Roy and Haley gat a very funny punchline, V and Durkon, even belkar. Everyone has some moments to shine in the strip. Always a positive for the ensemble piece we have here.
2) As alluded to before, everyone is funny. Everyone. Literally. Elan has one good zinger. The jokes about human senses are all good. And I thought the punchline, whilst in some ways the obvious joke, was very very funny. It flowed so well, and coupled with Roys "eh?" it made the comic work. A nice bit of humour to keep us going.
3) I am a Roy fanboy at times I admit. And his constant use of tactical thinking and planning is something I like to see. He is probably the most effective Party Member as far as using his resources goes and is showing us here why he is the leader. Tiny, and just my own view, but felt like saying it.

The Bad:
1) As alluded to in my intro, nothing really happens. I mean almost nothing. Each strip before advanced the story. This one did not in any really essential way. As said we could skip it, slightly alter the reason they meet with whoever the smelly humans are, and not miss the strip at all. This felt like filler. I do not regret it's existence, but it makes the strip noticably weaker than comics that add plot or character moments to a joke strip. This was only the jokes.


So I would call this a ** strip. Not bad of course, but lacking that something to make it more than a necessary read and a few good chuckles (that loose humour a bit more on successive reads). This is all.

[StClair]

Close, Roy, but not quite:
The proper answer there is "Yes."

[Heksefatter]

Man, I am in paradise - a new OotS strip each day or something close.

[kabbor]

Omergideon: I disagree with the "plotlessness" of this strip. Switching from 'random wanderings accompanied by Elan's tuneless warblings' to 'Follow Belkar's Nose' is a plot change that will guide the story - possibly right through to the end of this arc. (My long held prediction is that no one will actually find this gate, and Xykon will accidentally come within however many feet of it as he leaves.)

Oh, and my physics teacher said that one of the most amusing thing to watch is students, diligently writing in exams, waving their LEFT hands around!

[Miklus]

Any ideas on how any human could smell worse than a sweaty gladiator, according to halfling senses?

Magically enhanced smell, possibly designed for Serini's sense of smell?
Simple illusion designed to lead intruders to a trap?
Belkar is actually Girard's illusion and he's leading them to him or to a trap?
The MitD, which is smelly and might count as human due to shapeshifting?
Belkar is simply wrong about it?

I'm guessing a bunch of people just wandered into Windy Canyon and got lost there. They could have been there for years. Maybe they set up camp and tried to find a way out together. Contacting them could be a good idea, they may have a partial map or at least know some of the traps. Although the Draketooth group would be kind of pricks not to help them find their way out.

[Obnoxious Hydra]

When exactly is 'late tonight'/how much longer will it be until then? It's just gone midnight here in the UK, so it's late tonight for me, but I don't know about you guys over in the US.




...so Girard would leave a few real obstacles here and there... and then it gets worse than the whole "not-nale" scene...

:thog:
not nale. not-nale. thog help nail not-nale, not nale.
and thog knot not-nale while nale nail not-nale. nale, not not-nale, now nail not-nale by leaving not-nale, not nale, in jail.

[SaintRidley]

When exactly is 'late tonight'/how much longer will it be until then? It's just gone midnight here in the UK, so it's late tonight for me, but I don't know about you guys over in the US.





It's about 7 pm on the east coast of the U.S (same time zone Rich is in). Our late night is your very early morning.

[M.A.D]

He could have moved the gate. The whole point of RC's ritual is to move a gate, so pretty sure it can be moved. Girard probably tell Soon the true coordinate of the original location (and lied that he roll percentage dice for that), but ask Dorukan to move the gate somewhere else.

He can't. Only a God could be powerful enough to do that. RC's ritual is only a procedure that enables his god, the Dark One, to move the gate and the Rift to a location of his choosing.


I'm guessing a bunch of people just wandered into Windy Canyon and got lost there. They could have been there for years. Maybe they set up camp and tried to find a way out together. Contacting them could be a good idea, they may have a partial map or at least know some of the traps. Although the Draketooth group would be kind of pricks not to help them find their way out.

Nah, it's in Girard's best interest to help those people out of his canyon, in case they might accidentally bump into people who deliberately went in to search of his gate.


The Bad:
1) As alluded to in my intro, nothing really happens. I mean almost nothing. Each strip before advanced the story. This one did not in any really essential way. As said we could skip it, slightly alter the reason they meet with whoever the smelly humans are, and not miss the strip at all. This felt like filler. I do not regret it's existence, but it makes the strip noticably weaker than comics that add plot or character moments to a joke strip. This was only the jokes.


So I would call this a ** strip. Not bad of course, but lacking that something to make it more than a necessary read and a few good chuckles (that loose humour a bit more on successive reads). This is all.

In term of story advancing, this is called a "plot hook". We have smelly humans which may or may not be real, and the party deciding on following Belkar's nose. It's as important as Haley going shopping with Elan and met Enor, or Roy and Miko deciding to rescue the dirt farmers. The only missing factor here is the suspense, which might make it seem like a boring read to you. However, in my opinion, this strips merges perfectly with the story flow (that is, if the smell thing did turn out to be important)

[wowy319]

Heh. Belkar continues to be all kinds of win. Also, before this discussion goes that way (you know the way I'm referring to), I'm reminding you all of The Giant's words on Belkar's alignment (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=559967&postcount=4).

[EnragedFilia]

Nah, it's in Girard's best interest to help those people out of his canyon, in case they might accidentally bump into people who deliberately went in to search of his gate.

Personally, I would venture that Girard's best interest would lie in subduing and capturing such a group, finding out what brought them to the canyon, then wiping their memories of the event and releasing them. Ideally he would also implant false memories designed to discourage anyone else from following them into the canyon, unless they had information which would be useful to him. High level spellcasters *always* have a third option.

Also, for anyone unfamiliar with the rules who doesn't get the second half of the gag in panel four: troglodyte stench is so powerful that it can make you sick at 30 feet.

[cloudland]

He can't. Only a God could be powerful enough to do that. RC's ritual is only a procedure that enables his god, the Dark One, to move the gate and the Rift to a location of his choosing.


Tsukiko said the ritual is of Teleportation subschool, and RC said it allow the Gate to be shifted at a later date. Considering this is a Teleportation subschool, the ritual doesn't "unlock" anything, or break anything that hold the gate in place, thus presumably, the arcane half of the ritual place a permanent spell on the gate, allowing it to be teleported at will, and the divine half simply give control to the Dark One. Hence, arcane magic at epic level by itself should be enough to teleport the gate, at least given enough time, which Dorukon probably have it Girard asked him for help.

[BaronOfHell]

Tsukiko said the ritual is of Teleportation subschool, and RC said it allow the Gate to be shifted at a later date. Considering this is a Teleportation subschool, the ritual doesn't "unlock" anything, or break anything that hold the gate in place, thus presumably, the arcane half of the ritual place a permanent spell on the gate, allowing it to be teleported at will, and the divine half simply give control to the Dark One. Hence, arcane magic at epic level by itself should be enough to teleport the gate, at least given enough time, which Dorukon probably have it Girard asked him for help.

So what you're saying is that you've been tricked in the same manner as Xykon seems to have been?:smallamused:

As far as I understand, the rifts cannot be moved at all. The gates cannot be moved from their given position either, but they can be plane shifted.

Edit: And it required a god just to create the spell that gives this sort of control. Further more, the god in question cannot, as far as I understand, merely cast this spell.

[Fishman]

I am thinking the answer to Roy's question of why they didn't do anything about the smell is was given by Roy himself: Roy doesn't smell anything. The odor of "human" isn't very perceptible to humans.

[Kish]

Roy expressed puzzlement that Girard, the master illusionist, wouldn't think to mask his scent from halflings, half-orcs, tracking dogs, and all the other creatures who can smell humans, driving home the point by mentioning that his sixteen-year-old sister and her schoolmates know how to mask their body odor.

[rewinn]

OK, so we the readers are supposed to guess the source of the stink. It seems to me that the possibilities are

1. Illusory defense - sort of an olifactory will-o-the-wisp would seem to be within Gerard's capability, easily
2. Gerard and/or his crew - seems unlikely, given Roy's lampshading
3. Team Evil - doesn't have any humans on it anymore (unless Mitd smells human...)
4. Linear Guild - possible, but this means they got in ahead of the Order, whereas Tarquin's plan in 821 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0821.html) was to let the Order seize the gate and then take if from them
5. None of the above, but someone who can be helpful to finding the gate. Someone who is human and very, very smelly. But who?

[Spleen_]

Wait, they weren't talking about the cat?

[the_tick_rules]

Geez not a good strip for roy was it?

[oppyu]

OK, so we the readers are supposed to guess the source of the stink. It seems to me that the possibilities are

1. Illusory defense - sort of an olifactory will-o-the-wisp would seem to be within Gerard's capability, easily
2. Gerard and/or his crew - seems unlikely, given Roy's lampshading
3. Team Evil - doesn't have any humans on it anymore (unless Mitd smells human...)
4. Linear Guild - possible, but this means they got in ahead of the Order, whereas Tarquin's plan in 821 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0821.html) was to let the Order seize the gate and then take if from them
5. None of the above, but someone who can be helpful to finding the gate. Someone who is human and very, very smelly. But who?
Ian Starshine and Uncle Geoff :smallsmile:

[WhamBamSam]

Ian Starshine and Uncle Geoff :smallsmile:Belkar said that the smell was stronger than it had been in the prison, where Ian and Geoff had been with them. Unless they have other, smellier allies in the area, this wouldn't really make sense, though Belkar did specify Ian specifically as smelling rather unpleasant.

[KoboldRevenge]

It's a trap! A smell Illusion!

[Icedaemon]

MIght it perhaps be Ian and Geoff that Belkar is smelling, we have no real idea of who this Aunt Ivy is, if we take in the possibility she's at least alighned with Girard theres is the chance the three have also entered the windy canyon. Further as Ian and Geoff are fresh out of slavery their smell might be more noticeable.

I like this theory.

[Ron Miel]

Belkar can recognise the individual scent of people he knows. He would iknow if was Ian or Geoff.

Also, how would they have got there ahead of the Order, without transport?

[One Step Two]

Belkar said that the smell was stronger than it had been in the prison, where Ian and Geoff had been with them. Unless they have other, smellier allies in the area, this wouldn't really make sense, though Belkar did specify Ian specifically as smelling rather unpleasant.

As an alternate theory, due to Girards friendship with Senri, whom also had halfling senses, may have left an intentional gap, so his friend can come visit?

[Hamiltonz]

[...]

So every member of the Scribble must have been aware of every location of every gate. So how could Soon have been given a wrong location?

Perhaps we haven't been told everything. But Soon was a Paladin, so his account must be truthful (at least as far as he knows). Unless he was a fallen Paladin? Hmm. But then the Sapphire Guard really was guarding a gate, so the rest of the Scribble must have trusted Soon enough to let him guard a gate.

[...]

Soon was not a Paladin See panel nine (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0289.html). He commanded them. He was a 14th level aristocrat and we wasn't even lawful.

[oppyu]

Soon was not a Paladin See panel nine (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0289.html). He commanded them. He was a 14th level aristocrat and we wasn't even lawful.
The old man is Shojo. He took over from Soon, who was very much Lawful Good.

[Ron Miel]

The old man is Shojo. He took over from Soon, who was very much Lawful Good.

And a paladin.

[Hamiltonz]

Gak! such a rookie move. As soon as I realized I had made that mistake I ran back to this thread in hopes that I could delete my post before anyone could see it. Alas, I was too slow

[Morph Bark]

It's been a few years since my physics classes. Was the Right Hand Rule for determining the direction of the Lorentz force or the direction of the magnetic current of a spool with an electric current running through it?

[Omergideon]

In term of story advancing, this is called a "plot hook". We have smelly humans which may or may not be real, and the party deciding on following Belkar's nose. It's as important as Haley going shopping with Elan and met Enor, or Roy and Miko deciding to rescue the dirt farmers. The only missing factor here is the suspense, which might make it seem like a boring read to you. However, in my opinion, this strips merges perfectly with the story flow (that is, if the smell thing did turn out to be important)

Indeed I understand how things like this work. However unless the smell itself turns out to be significant then there are any of a hundred ways that you could have them find Girard and co/the smelly people. The smell itself is not likely to be significant and is just a plot device. Stuff did happen, but as said I feel like with a single panel change you could skip this one and only be missing a few jokes. Thus it fails as a plot hook really. For me. Of course as always later revelations may change the importance of some moments. I mean Chekhov's gun is not likely to be recognised until it is fired. But for now this strip seemed to have no useful plot advancements. The only change is the switch from going by random, to going by Belkar's nose. Not a very significant one.

So something did happen. But this could be accomplished in a single panel. Much more easily than the outcomes and events of the previous few daily strips. No significant plot advancements occured in my opinion. We already knew humans were about. They were already tracking the people. Etc. Nothing really new that 1 panel could not have done.



Though if it becomes signifcant, on further reflections Roy's musings on why smell is NOT masked may end up mattering. Possibly relating to how Serini was also a Halfling as a way to help her find him. Which would be signifcant, and make Soon the only one who actually kept the non-inteference oath. But this is just speculation

P.S: I don't mind filler. I like filler. In long running series it often serves a good purpose such as place setting, developing a status quo etc. But filler eps/chapters/strips just don't tend to be as good as the Story driving ones IMO.

[Cranica]

It's been a few years since my physics classes. Was the Right Hand Rule for determining the direction of the Lorentz force or the direction of the magnetic current of a spool with an electric current running through it?

It's a general rule for the curl of a vector field.

[M.A.D]

So every member of the Scribble must have been aware of every location of every gate. So how could Soon have been given a wrong location?

Perhaps we haven't been told everything. But Soon was a Paladin, so his account must be truthful (at least as far as he knows). Unless he was a fallen Paladin? Hmm. But then the Sapphire Guard really was guarding a gate, so the rest of the Scribble must have trusted Soon enough to let him guard a gate.



Soon was indeed aware of the location, and he would have been able to walk there by himself. However, he knows nothing about mapmaking, since all that duties were given to Girard. Soon simply asked for the gate's coordination from Girard, and the guy lied to him, probably.

But I think it's a bit much to call Mr. A-Paladin's-Honor-Cannot-Be-Broken-Even-By-Death-Itself a fallen paladin.


As an alternate theory, due to Girards friendship with Senri, whom also had halfling senses, may have left an intentional gap, so his friend can come visit?

If it were due to friendship, I think he would have and should have put a smell unique to the two of them, one that Serini alone could recognise and not some murderous psychopathic halfling. But then again, something like that has to be agreed in advance, which contradicts their agreement of not visiting each other. What is more, Girard specifically said in his exploding message that Serini has the true coordinate. If the person for whom that message was intended was indeed Soon, then he wouldn't risk telling him where to look for the real location.

That said, I'm going to stealthily add more confusion to this discussion by proposing my theory: Girard had, in truth, given Serini the false coordination of his Gate. Think about it, if Girard didn't trust other people anyway, one more outsider who knows about his gate's location would only make it riskier for him anyway.

[Chantelune]

That said, I'm going to stealthily add more confusion to this discussion by proposing my theory: Girard had, in truth, given Serini the false coordination of his Gate. Think about it, if Girard didn't trust other people anyway, one more outsider who knows about his gate's location would only make it riskier for him anyway.

Unlikely as Serini seems to be the only member of the Order of the Scribble that Girard really trust and set up his illusion at the false location to notify both him and her that someone activated it.

[M.A.D]

Unlikely as Serini seems to be the only member of the Order of the Scribble that Girard really trust and set up his illusion at the false location to notify both him and her that someone activated it.

That's just what he said. It could be an elaborate plan to.. or.. but...

Yeah, you're right

[LordofNaught]

Ahhh, the first panel brings back memories of the early pages. Anyway, no point in guessing what the scent's origin is, what with the next page being due in a few hours as of this posting.

[brightwill]

Honestly, I feel like its very important to add laziness to that list. Chimps or gorilla could just as easely have ruled the world, they are as smart as us and everything. But when chimps wanna kill something, they dont build weapons for it, beating them up work just as well, it just take more effort. Just think about how many inventions were not at all about our intelligence as much as making our lives easier. Hell, do you know why humans are the only apes without fur? Cause we were too lazy to clean ourselves and ended up with lots of bacteria and parasites in our furs. No really, look it up.

Not really, laziness is the LAST thing to put on the list. The earlier poster's comment about ludicrous stamina is true and that doesn't spell lazy as much as willingness to work hard and long. You don't build up stamina by laying about!

[brightwill]

Was I the only who didn't even think of the kolbold until Haley said the punch line? Because it fit Belkar like a glove!