Best 0 level spell ??

[MysticMind]

Well, tell me ur opinion about it...what's the best cantrip/orizon for you ?

My opinion is that the best 0 lvl spell should be something like Prestidigitation

or Create Water
or No Light (BoVD) {Mass Invisibility if u have darkvision and enemies have not}

:smallwink:

[ARTHAN]

I love "Dancing Lights" if you ask me! :smallbiggrin:
The "Ghost Sound" cantrip can also be used to mislead your enemies if you use it with a clever way! :smalltongue:
The most powerful in combat terms, I strogly believe it is the "Flare" cantrip! :smallamused:

[limejuicepowder]

daze is pretty useful, at low levels. It's often worth it for the spellcaster to basically give up his turn (saving important spell slots) to stop the fighter from getting smashed.

light is incredible useful as well. I think those are my two favs.

[CTrees]

Detect and Read Magic never stop being useful.

Light is also great for a very long time, and Prestidigitation has a ridiculous number of uses (including being a planet killing super weapon, according to some).

[Elemental]

Prestidigitation as a planet-killing super weapon? I'd have to see that to believe it.
Anyway, besides that, prestidigitation is still pretty cool. At least a dozen spells in one!

[danzibr]

I was always a fan of Prestidigitation, especially when I learned how to pronounce it.

[Lonely Tylenol]

In before "Minor Wish". (EDIT: In after "Minor Wish". In long, long after "Minor Wish".)

I'm also going to avoid abuses of cantrips (metamagic school focused Fell Drained Sonic Snap for no-attack, no-save level drain and such) and go with the stated purpose of the spell here.

Daze can be used to stop someone from acting for a turn. At low levels, that can be game-changing, and it can easily be worth it to play the numbers game and trade your turn to stop an enemy from taking theirs if your party has more people in it.

Cure Minor Wounds can be used to stabilize a dying ally in combat without a Heal check or anything of that sort. Again, the practical uses of that (especially at lower levels) need not be restated.

Launch Item is a fun way to deliver Thunderstones, Alchemist's Fire, and Tanglefoot Bags without screaming, "look at me, I have a terrible to-hit bonus!" from within walking distance of your target.

Minor Disguise is useful for, well, making minor alterations to your physical appearance. When you need to make a quick disguise to elude the authorities or to introduce yourself as someone different, there's no better way to do it than, well, actually looking different.

Dawn is useful if you're on watch, as it's the equivalent of shouting at your party, without the inevitable drawback of somebody failing their Listen check to hear someone yelling within 20 feet of them (I know this sounds silly, but I myself have slept through earthquakes).

Resistance is, well... Resistance.

Detect Magic is useful for everything from discerning the nature of writing (magical/nonmagical), finding magic items in a room, locating magic traps and wards, and determining the nature of various natural effects on other people and areas. Detect Magic can, if you concentrate for three rounds, discern the exact location of magical auras, which basically makes it magicsense out to 60 feet (with certain limitations, of course, like it emanates from you in a cone). There is a third-level spell, Arcane Sight, which does all this and more, but it's a trap; if you use Detect Magic intelligently, you don't need it.

Ghost Sound is, like Silent Image, limited only by your imagination, but I find that the best use of Ghost Sound is to augment Silent Image; for instance, if you want to convince an enemy that you've got them outnumbered and surrounded, use Ghost Sound to emulate the sounds of marching leading up to the location in question, followed by Silent Image to create an image of tons of soldiers forming an offensive perimeter. Try saving to disbelieve that.

All told, however, my favorites are still Dancing Lights, Message, and Mage Hand; the first because it creates a set of lights that is entirely mobile, and can thus be used to illuminate large areas at a time, as well as to cast illumination around a corner of a corridor before you get there, or to alert others to your presence without being ambushed (note: not nearly as useful if you're trying to be sneaky), the second because I like to communicate knowledge in-character and often the person who needs to know isn't standing right next to me and/or is not able to use their "outdoor voice", and the third just because it's really, really cool. 5-pound telekinesis? Sign me up.

[MysticMind]

''Minor Wish'' is a lvl 5 spell. A 0 level version of wish is Prestidigitation. ''Know Direction'' can be usefull as well, especially if you are on a travelling party.

I am thinking of using an Improved Version of Cantripologist, cause it's such a funny and creative idea. It a serious fix tough.....

[Lonely Tylenol]

''Minor Wish'' is a lvl 5 spell. A 0 level version of wish is Prestidigitation.

Yeah, that... That's the joke.

[Blisstake]

I assume you mean best by itself, and not due to metamagic synergy (Hello, sonic snap).

May favorite is light. Have to use it all the time :smallsmile:

[tyckspoon]

Prestidigitation as a planet-killing super weapon? I'd have to see that to believe it.
Anyway, besides that, prestidigitation is still pretty cool. At least a dozen spells in one!

The usual suggestion, IIRC, is that 'cracking an atom' is a very simple and minor effect that is well within the range of what Prestidigitation can do.. it just happens to result in an almighty huge explosion.

[Calanon]

I love "Dancing Lights" if you ask me! :smallbiggrin:

I LOVE Dancing Knights as well :smallbiggrin: BEST spell ever <3

[Gavinfoxx]

I like Groundsmoke. You can totally use that to smoke out a small dungeon!!

[Tenno Seremel]

Prestidigitation for all those nice things you can have, Light so I can read at night, Cure Minor Wounds to spam and… I don't think there is a minor shapeshift cantrip, so… that's about it.

[Othesemo]

I'm going to go for Detect Magic or Cure Minor Wounds.

[CTrees]

The idea with prestidigitation is to get a tungsten rod and repeatedly heat it. Do this enough times and you'll get a fission candle effect, with which you can ignite the atmosphere. Some people say this works, but even if the heating can stack by RAW, it won't in my games.

[RndmNumGen]

Ghost Sound is the best. Use it to play epic boss battle music when fighting the BBEG :smallbiggrin:

What? You said the best spell, not the most useful one...

[Jack_Simth]

Detect Magic is useful for everything from discerning the nature of writing (magical/nonmagical), finding magic items in a room, locating magic traps and wards, and determining the nature of various natural effects on other people and areas. Detect Magic can, if you concentrate for three rounds, discern the exact location of magical auras, which basically makes it magicsense out to 60 feet (with certain limitations, of course, like it emanates from you in a cone). There is a third-level spell, Arcane Sight, which does all this and more, but it's a trap; if you use Detect Magic intelligently, you don't need it.Arcane Sight has a very distinct advantage in that it's got a much larger range (120 feet vs. 60 feet), takes no action while active (vs. Concentration for Detect Magic - a standard action every round, without other resources invested), covers a full 360 (vs. Detect Magic and the 90 degree arc that is a cone), and gets you the info right now.

So if you're using Detect Magic to trapfind, and something has an effective range of 60 feet (like, say, a Symbol spell), you are more likely to get caught in it than if you're using Arcane Sight.

If you're in the middle of a fight vs. a Greater Invisible opponent, and don't have See Invisibility for some reason (perhaps you used it up earlier?), Detect Magic won't help much, but Arcane Sight will let you know where to land that Glitterdust (as would a Bat familiar, but eh).

[Gavinfoxx]

Oh, I know what the best Level 0 spell is!

Silent Image. You can totally get that as a level 0 spell!

[Aegis013]

Oh, I know what the best Level 0 spell is!

Silent Image. You can totally get that as a level 0 spell!

That was my favorite 0th level spell. Detect Magic was a close second.

[Gavinfoxx]

Yea, you can only get it as a L0 with Gnome Illusionist, and classes that can get it from there (Archivist, Artificer)...

[Alabenson]

Arcane Sight has a very distinct advantage in that it's got a much larger range (120 feet vs. 60 feet), takes no action while active (vs. Concentration for Detect Magic - a standard action every round, without other resources invested), covers a full 360 (vs. Detect Magic and the 90 degree arc that is a cone), and gets you the info right now.

So if you're using Detect Magic to trapfind, and something has an effective range of 60 feet (like, say, a Symbol spell), you are more likely to get caught in it than if you're using Arcane Sight.

If you're in the middle of a fight vs. a Greater Invisible opponent, and don't have See Invisibility for some reason (perhaps you used it up earlier?), Detect Magic won't help much, but Arcane Sight will let you know where to land that Glitterdust (as would a Bat familiar, but eh).

The issue I have with your analysis is that Arcane Sight is a 3rd level spell. I'd hope that a third level spell is strictly better than a 0 level spell.

[ericgrau]

daze is pretty useful, at low levels. It's often worth it for the spellcaster to basically give up his turn (saving important spell slots) to stop the fighter from getting smashed.
The key though is to actually use the better spells. You burn through your level 1s then spam your backup dazes; better than a crossbow at least. I once played with someone who just kept casting daze the whole time saying what a great spell it was when it worked and a foe lost a turn. I wanted to tell him he was losing his turn twice as often but it was a one-off not long term and I didn't want to ruin his fun.

Detect magic is the obvious one. But my favorite is getting to be read magic. Bam, "what spell did I get?" Only getting a school gets frustrating.

[Marnath]

The idea with prestidigitation is to get a tungsten rod and repeatedly heat it. Do this enough times and you'll get a fission candle effect, with which you can ignite the atmosphere. Some people say this works, but even if the heating can stack by RAW, it won't in my games.

It doesn't work by RAW or RAI. Prestidigitation can't deal damage. You won't even be able to get the rod glowing red since at that point you'd take a point of fire damage by touching it.

[Toliudar]

I once cut short an entire side quest by fixing the broken McGuffin with a Mending spell and a good roll on a craft check.

Detect Magic, Light, Mage Hand, Message, Mending, Prestidigitation. I try to get at least one use of each of these for all of my casters, all the time. Their uses come up over and over.

[Jack_Simth]

The issue I have with your analysis is that Arcane Sight is a 3rd level spell. I'd hope that a third level spell is strictly better than a 0 level spell.
Yes, but the person I was replying to had specifically called Arcane Sight "A trap" - which it really isn't.

[Lonely Tylenol]

Arcane Sight has a very distinct advantage in that it's got a much larger range (120 feet vs. 60 feet), takes no action while active (vs. Concentration for Detect Magic - a standard action every round, without other resources invested), covers a full 360 (vs. Detect Magic and the 90 degree arc that is a cone), and gets you the info right now.

Read:


There is a third-level spell, Arcane Sight, which does all this and more . . .


So if you're using Detect Magic to trapfind, and something has an effective range of 60 feet (like, say, a Symbol spell), you are more likely to get caught in it than if you're using Arcane Sight.

Yes, Arcane Sight has a longer range, but Detect Magic is a cantrip. Also, if you're triggering traps from 60 feet away, chances are the trap was just meant to go off or something (as in, you were never meant to be consciously aware of it before it sprung). I mean, I guess if you have Arcane Sight somehow always-on (Persist shenanigans?) then you just know that a magical trap between 60 and 120 feet exists that you wouldn't otherwise, but odds are your DM didn't even think to explain what magical traps exist at that range anyway, and for three spell levels' difference I wouldn't hedge my bets on it coming up that often.


If you're in the middle of a fight vs. a Greater Invisible opponent, and don't have See Invisibility for some reason (perhaps you used it up earlier?), Detect Magic won't help much, but Arcane Sight will let you know where to land that Glitterdust (as would a Bat familiar, but eh).

If you are in the middle of a fight vs. a Greater Invisible opponent and you are using Detect Magic, then you aren't using Detect Magic intelligently. Heck, if you're high-op enough, one might argue that if you're in the middle of a fight vs. a Greater Invisible opponent, you weren't using Detect Magic intelligently enough in the first place.

But that's getting a little beyond the scope of what I was thinking.

Functionally, Arcane Sight is better, but Detect Magic covers a large enough subset of Arcane Sight's utility that you can free up that third-level spell slot for the ability to fly or shoot lightning from your fingers or warp time and not feel concerned that you're missing out on something grand.

[ericgrau]

It doesn't work by RAW or RAI. Prestidigitation can't deal damage. You won't even be able to get the rod glowing red since at that point you'd take a point of fire damage by touching it.

Not by stacking rules either. Not by thermodynamics either, because it would lose heat to surrounding air much too fast. Not even in a vacuum, because at around yellow hot or so it would radiate heat away faster than you could heat it, in the form of light. Congratulations, by ignoring stacking rules you might be able to make an incandescent light bulb that requires a standard action each round to stay lit. All you need to figure out now is how to make a glass ball hold vacuum. Though it shouldn't be too hard for a small volume using a hand powered pump. Time consuming, but not hard.

Detect magic is a handy scouting tool even if it isn't arcane sight. Let's say you're about to enter a room but the enemies know you're coming so you decide to scout through the door with detect magic first. You detect illusion. You open the door and nothing's there. The meat shield(s) take the doorway, no one else is allowed to enter, and people start casting glitterdust, see invis, invisibility purge, asking to examine objects in the room to make illusion disbelief rules, etc. Without the cantrip you walk into an ambush and the whole party loses a round.

[MysticMind]

I also made this one for fun, it's an improved version of Cantripologist.

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Cantrip_Wizard_(3.5e_Class)#Making_a_Cantrip_Wizar d

[Thiyr]

I mean, I guess if you have Arcane Sight somehow always-on (Persist shenanigans?) t

The easier option would just be to use Permanency, which solves the whole using a 3rd level slot problem for a reasonably long time (if you're careful, permanently.) The biggest weakness for both detect magic and arcane sight ends up being the whole min/lvl cap.

I'm always a fan of Cure Insignificant Wounds at low levels, as it serves the wonderful purpose of being a bandaid. Ray of frost will hold a special place in my heart as "greatest method of providing negative levels ever". Sure, sonic snap can't be resisted. But you can't chain-split-ray-twin-fell-drain a sonic snap. (admittedly, i think you can chain and twin it, but split ray just makes it all the more fun). And arcane mark is pretty much the wizard's sharpie for the face of the blacked-out drunk barbarian.

[ahenobarbi]

Detect magic. Because it keeps being useful for long.


I'm always a fan of Cure Insignificant Wounds at low levels, as it serves the wonderful purpose of being a bandaid. Ray of frost will hold a special place in my heart as "greatest method of providing negative levels ever". Sure, sonic snap can't be resisted. But you can't chain-split-ray-twin-fell-drain a sonic snap. (admittedly, i think you can chain and twin it, but split ray just makes it all the more fun). And arcane mark is pretty much the wizard's sharpie for the face of the blacked-out drunk barbarian.

Wouldn't plain fell drain twinned magic missile better? You don't have to make attack roll and you have more targets.

[Kaeso]

Prestidigation is not only the best level 0 spell, but one of the best spells around with a bit of creativity. It can manipulate 1 pound of material, which means it can split 1 pound worth of atoms :smallamused:
Combine this with contingent teleport: GTFO when an atom splits within a 10 ft. range and you've just nuked the bad guys lair... litteraly.

[ahenobarbi]

Combine this with contingent teleport: GTFO when an atom splits within a 10 ft. range and you've just nuked the bad guys lair... litteraly.

Actually it would teleport you out just after you finished making your contingent teleport. Really atoms are breaking around you all the time.

Also I don't think Predigistation allows you to break atoms. It allows you to perform "minor tricks" I don't think making nuclear explosion is a minor trick (and by the way... how does your character even know about existence of atoms and how they are built so it could split them?). Tricks you can perform with prestidigitation are listed in spell description: "slowly lift 1 pound (...)color, clean, or soil (...) chill, warm, or flavor (...) create small objects" I don't think spiting atoms falls into any of those effects.

[MysticMind]

The smash atom is an old trick and it's 100% possible, but DMs just won't allow it, just like the nuke trick with ''Locate Town'' :smalltongue:

As regards creativity, Prestidigitation still wins :D, but detect magic never stops being useful even at epic levels :smallsmile:

[SilverLeaf167]

Actually it would teleport you out just after you finished making your contingent teleport. Really atoms are breaking around you all the time.

Also I don't think Predigistation allows you to break atoms. It allows you to perform "minor tricks" I don't think making nuclear explosion is a minor trick (and by the way... how does your character even know about existence of atoms and how they are built so it could split them?). Tricks you can perform with prestidigitation are listed in spell description: "slowly lift 1 pound (...)color, clean, or soil (...) chill, warm, or flavor (...) create small objects" I don't think spiting atoms falls into any of those effects.
Yes, indeed, there is quite a lot of power keeping an atom in one piece. The explosion of a nuclear weapon is, for the most part, that energy being released in large quantities. I think it would be most appropriate to compare it to the lifting effect, and such a weak lift definitely wouldn't split an individual atom; definitely not many enough at the same time to create an explosion.

That teleportation thing is true, too.

[ahenobarbi]

The smash atom is an old trick and it's 100% possible

How? "Breaking a lot of atoms at once" is slowly lifting, coloring, cleaning, soiling, chilling, warming, flavoring or creating small objects? Because prestidigitation doesn't allow you to do anything else.

Also note that just breaking atoms is different from releasing a lot of energy (it just happens that when some atoms split they release energy...).

[Torben Raibeart]

The usual suggestion, IIRC, is that 'cracking an atom' is a very simple and minor effect that is well within the range of what Prestidigitation can do.. it just happens to result in an almighty huge explosion.

Okay, let's just science this one up:
You 'crack' an atom, presumably in the atmosphere. Assuming that the world you play in is Earth-like, it's most likely that the atom you 'crack' is a nitrogen atom. Cracking this would result in 'creating' cold doe to how fission works (you need to fissure som atom with a larger number then iron to create heat). However, this would not be notable by anything or anyone, as the energy involved would be less then what is lost if two ladybugs collided at a speed at .5 meter/s. And as this fission absorbs more energy then it release, noe chain-reaction would occure. On top of that, the atoms in the atmosphere are far to stable to be part of any major chain-reaction. So no explosion at all.

(Even if you cracked a Xenon-atom, whick would create 'heat', stability and lack of enought Xenon would prevent explotions.)
*anti-joke chicken*

As for 0-level spells... Purify Food and Drink. never having to worry about being poisoned through your food? Yes, please!

[MysticMind]

Upon mere concentration you can push an atom away from a molecule and crack it (cause it weighs a billion times less than one pound). So it's possible.
And according to einstein : E = m c(2) (or how the power is supposed to written in keyboard)

So 90000000000 J = 1 kg * 300000km/s * 300000 km/s

1 Kg = 2 pounds......So with a whetstone and Prestidigitation, u can kil Tarasque

:smallwink: :smallbiggrin:

[Quietus]

Upon mere concentration you can push an atom away from a molecule and crack it (cause it weighs a billion times less than one pound). So it's possible.
And according to einstein : E = m c(2) (or how the power is supposed to written in keyboard)

So 90000000000 J = 1 kg * 300000km/s * 300000 km/s

1 Kg = 2 pounds......So with a whetstone and Prestidigitation, u can kil Tarasque

:smallwink: :smallbiggrin:

Except that as noted above, even if things work that way in the setting, your character probably doesn't know anything about atomic theory - unless your DM has allowed you a Knowledge skill that isn't generally listed, which is outside the bounds of RAW.

Also, how are you targeting an atom? It's too small to see, and you can't target something that you can't see.

[Lonely Tylenol]

Ignoring all of the various deal-breaking problems with the "Prestidigitation splitting an atom" trick (and they are various and deal-breaking):

If splitting an atom to produce an atomic bomb is such a "minor trick", then why isn't it a regular, even natural occurrence in our world?

[Ormur]

Besides, what atoms? Earth, fire, air and water atoms? Who says matter is indivisible, who says earth atoms if there are any release energy or produce a chain reaction when they're split etc. etc.

How about non-core cantrips like amanuensis? Someone mentioned dawn though and I think there was one that allowed you to read very quickly.

Although I guess, as usual, core has most of the powerful stuff.

[Lonely Tylenol]

How about non-core cantrips like amanuensis? Someone mentioned dawn though and I think there was one that allowed you to read very quickly.

I believe the "read very quickly" spell was actually of a later level, if such a spell exists, but I can't recall what it was called.

Amanuensis is a very fun spell to use, basically turning your character into a printing press, meaning that there's an effective means of creating libraries and book stores' worth of information in the world.

In a PC-centric campaign setting, I find that it can be a very useful spell, but only in the type of campaign that makes Forgery useful and the like (basically, a game where writing and text feature into the story, or are used in gameplay). As far as campaign worlds go, I can see two very effective uses for it, but neither of them have shown up in a game I haven't run (actually, the first showed up, once or twice):

1) Copying private documents with sensitive or important information (such as trade documents and the like) so as to have such information on hand when it's necessary to you; and
2) To eliminate the threat of explosive runes, sepia snake sigil, and other such magical traps that trigger when read.

Both seem like things that should exist in the game world, but I haven't seen either of them feature as prominently as they should.

[Rubik]

I like Detect Magic, myself. Use the the Locate City Bomb trick and Fell Drain on it, then run around concentrating on enemies while you walk forward. They make Reflex saves, get Exploded outward for 1d6+ damage, and take a negative level. You walk forward 5' and it happens again. And again. And again.

Now we just need to boost your speed and make concentrating on Detect Magic a free (or swift) action, and you can wipe the floors with your enemies.

With a cantrip.

[Daftendirekt]

The 'read quickly' spell I believe is Scholar's Touch. Level 1 spell, gives you the same knowledge you'd get from a normal read-through of the book touched. You do not have perfect recall and knowledge of its contents, but the same amount of understanding you'd get from a single reading.

[gomipile]

The 'read quickly' spell I believe is Scholar's Touch. Level 1 spell, gives you the same knowledge you'd get from a normal read-through of the book touched. You do not have perfect recall and knowledge of its contents, but the same amount of understanding you'd get from a single reading.


Amanuensis is level 0, and is not "read quickly," it is "copy quickly." Also, it says explicitly in the spell that it triggers traps like Explosive Runes, and it has a range of 25'+5' per 2 levels.

[flabort]

I recall that in one of Fayd's campaign journals, he got at-will presdigitation. Which he used to make money by flavoring food, for a price, and guide the party barbarian around by bacon-scenting chalk. :smallbiggrin:

[IdleMuse]

Launch Bolt can do 6d6 damage.

[Wookie-ranger]

Launch Bolt can do 6d6 damage.

This is always fun! I like to use (or used to use) spellstoreing bolts with this. but i heard that Glyph of Warding on bolts works the same.


BTW: about this whole splitting atoms thing. splinting an atom does not mean an atomic explosion. Who on earth said that?!?!?. did anybody actually ever read up on what an Atomic bomb actually does and how it works? you know, the right type of element, of the right purity, at the right time, in the right proportions.
to put it in modern times, think about what Iran is doing right now, they are purifying the hell out of thousands of tons, over many years now, just to get a few kilos of U235.

Splitting an atom is VERY VERY VERY (yes THAT VERY) easy! it is done all the time. not just in nuclear reactors, or in laboratories all around the world every single day; it happens naturally in nature.
if you split an atom with Prestidigitation, go right ahead, it will do apsolutly nothing.
HOWEVER, you could convert lead or mercury into gold by changing the atomic structure a little bit. :smallbiggrin:

[Jack_Simth]

HOWEVER, you could convert lead or mercury into gold by changing the atomic structure a little bit. :smallbiggrin:
At one particle per standard action. I don't think most mages would live long enough to make a profit.

[dextercorvia]

Launch Item is one of my favorites. It gives the Wizard something better than a Xbow after tossing off a level 1 spell. Keep a variety of alchemical items just for that purpose.

[cc_kizz]

I really like Spark from Pathfinder. I must admit I've not even tried prestidigitation, but I've been looking for some ways to do so.

[Daftendirekt]

Amanuensis is level 0, and is not "read quickly," it is "copy quickly." Also, it says explicitly in the spell that it triggers traps like Explosive Runes, and it has a range of 25'+5' per 2 levels.

I'm not talking about Amanuensis. I know what it does. I'm talking about Scholar's Touch, from Races of Destiny page 167. Did you even read? I was referencing this:


I believe the "read very quickly" spell was actually of a later level, if such a spell exists, but I can't recall what it was called.

He was specifically talking about a spell that wasn't Amanuensis.

[gomipile]

I'm not talking about Amanuensis. I know what it does. I'm talking about Scholar's Touch, from Races of Destiny page 167. Did you even read? I was referencing this:



He was specifically talking about a spell that wasn't Amanuensis.

I apologize. I assumed that you were confused about the thread title, since you were referring to a level 1 spell.

[Coidzor]

I really like Spark from Pathfinder. I must admit I've not even tried prestidigitation, but I've been looking for some ways to do so.

Next time you go through a sewer area, you'll be glad you had it.

[ahenobarbi]

Upon mere concentration you can push an atom away from a molecule and crack it (cause it weighs a billion times less than one pound). So it's possible.
And according to einstein : E = m c(2) (or how the power is supposed to written in keyboard)

So 90000000000 J = 1 kg * 300000km/s * 300000 km/s

1 Kg = 2 pounds......So with a whetstone and Prestidigitation, u can kil Tarasque

:smallwink: :smallbiggrin:

Sadly spliting an atom does converts only a bit of it's mass to energy. And for most atom types you need to use more energy to split them then they will release upon split. And if you have the other kind (those that release more energy then it takes to split them) they will generally blow up on their own (if you have enough).


I like Detect Magic, myself. Use the the Locate City Bomb trick and Fell Drain on it, then run around concentrating on enemies while you walk forward. They make Reflex saves, get Exploded outward for 1d6+ damage, and take a negative level. You walk forward 5' and it happens again. And again. And again.

I think they'd get negative level only once. Fell Drain says "any living creature that is dealt damage also gains a negative level" so if you are living creature and take damage from fell-drain spell you gain 1 negative level (doesn't matter if damage was dealt with many rays/missiles/on many rounds, always 1 level per fell draining spell).

[Bard for Kicks]

the Book of Vile Darkness cantrip Slash Tongue has a number of uses. I don't really find it a combat spell but when you're torturing someone, it can give you so much circumstance bonus on intimidate.

[Orbin Dules]

Is no one going to mention the wonderful "Summon Instrument" bard cantrip? It is the ability to snap your fingers and create a 5 gp item for a short duration. Pawn it off on some poor sap and gain an easy 3 gp. It also has practical purposes such as taking ranks in perform (Chello), and not having to lug the thing around. Anachronisms aside, It's one of the more useful cantrips a bard can know.

[Benly]

I'm fond of Caltrops. Specifically, I got fond of using it on a low-level character who had Cloudy Conjuration and never enough slots to go around. Sure, it's not super great battlefield control, but it's as good as you can hope for from a level 0 slot.

[kardar233]

Is no one going to mention the wonderful "Summon Instrument" bard cantrip? It is the ability to snap your fingers and create a 5 gp item for a short duration. Pawn it off on some poor sap and gain an easy 3 gp. It also has practical purposes such as taking ranks in perform (Chello), and not having to lug the thing around. Anachronisms aside, It's one of the more useful cantrips a bard can know.

Fun fact: with some sort of flying or levitation item and a greatly buffed Strength (you'll want 25+ for this) you can summon pianos into your hands, then drop them on unsuspecting high-ranking army men. Which nicely produces A-Flat Major.

[Rubik]

Is no one going to mention the wonderful "Summon Instrument" bard cantrip? It is the ability to snap your fingers and create a 5 gp item for a short duration. Pawn it off on some poor sap and gain an easy 3 gp. It also has practical purposes such as taking ranks in perform (Chello), and not having to lug the thing around. Anachronisms aside, It's one of the more useful cantrips a bard can know.Note that handsaws (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Xkg6yS_Rrs) are also considered instruments.

As are saw blades (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgRowxEuBYE).

Heavy duty drumsticks to use as clubs.

And axes!

And bards that sing.

I'm sure we can abuse this harder if we want to.

[ARTHAN]

Even if it was possible to perform nuclear explosion with prestigitation I would never allow it as a DM, even if that meant to change the spell's rules or to prohibite that spell from my campaign.
Enough of talk we have had with that, let's return talking about other cantrips.
I also like Acid Spalsh and Ray of Frost. Sometimes you need to do energy damage, even if it is just a 1d3. You may need to melt away an old rusted lock in order to open a door, so throw an Acid Splash at it. You need to eliminate this irritating unconsious Troll, burn it away with repeated Acid Splashes. You encounter Brown Mold, destroy it instantly with a Ray of Frost. If you want to create a ray sorcerer with the "Weapon Focus (Ray)" feat, then the Ray of Frost is a must cantrip.
There are other uses too, just use your imagination... :smallbiggrin:

[Meowmasterish]

Back on the subject of Prestidigitation, with this spell, you can create small balls of cesium in an enemy's limbs. The cesium will react with the water in their blood, and it will explode with about the force of a hand grenade. The damage that would deal would probably kill the creature. If you're fighting something really large, you could form the cesium in their brain, and instakill them. (Unless they're undead, of course.)

[Osiris]

Back on the subject of Prestidigitation, with this spell, you can create small balls of cesium in an enemy's limbs. The cesium will react with the water in their blood, and it will explode with about the force of a hand grenade. The damage that would deal would probably kill the creature. If you're fighting something really large, you could form the cesium in their brain, and instakill them. (Unless they're undead, of course.)

If I was DM, I might allow this. However, I might just make every enemy from then on Undead, or a construct:smalltongue:

[kirerellim]

I'm a big fan of ghost sounds and dancing lights. The applications of this are just amazing. If you cant think of things to do with glowing lights and creepy sounds in a dark, dank dungeon, you are not thinking hard enough lol.

[Rubik]

Adding Sanctum Spell to the mix allows us to throw in all of the 1st level spells as cantrips and orisons, too.

Scholar's Touch would be among the best in any world where books exist and are widely used, such as our own, especially when combined with Autohypnosis. Gain a degree in under a week? Sure!

Aspect of the Wolf could be fun. Gain a fur coat in the winter to help survive if you're caught out in inclement weather, and who wouldn't want to be a werewolf in complete control of his faculties, not dependent on the moon, and incapable of spreading lycanthropy?

Beget Bogun would be a good way to produce and distribute automated servants, assuming you didn't have to pay the requisite costs to make them.

Cheat could help you at the casinos, with Disguise Self to throw off anyone who might become suspicious at your good luck.

I'd suggest that Cloudburst would be a great way to break droughts, but it obviously can't do that, so...

I don't even have to mention the potential awesomeness of Comprehend Languages, do I?

Gaseous Form (Trapsmith 1) would be a useful way to fly around, and it's useful in a pinch for anyone who needs to escape, bypass security, or otherwise move into or out of places they shouldn't be.

Hoard Gullet. I could make jokes about spitting vs swallowing or binging and purging, but I don't think I will.

Ice Skate could be all sorts of fun. Skate around on the sidewalk all summer long, and show those Olympic skaters what's what, even on asphalt.

Improvisation would be amazing, except it's literally unusable until CL 2, so that's no good.

Invisibility (Telflammar Shadowlord 1) has all sorts of uses, many of which are highly illegal, and possibly immoral.

Master's Touch for any Craft skill, of course.

Sanctuary makes it extremely difficult for anyone to purposefully hurt you, which could be all sorts of handy, depending on your profession (such as a police officer or bank robber) and area of residence (such as Detroit).

Lesser Shivering Touch means you can gib anyone in a matter of half a minute or less. Dex damage every round on every touch attack you make would be enough to push anyone into becoming a serious contender for the UFC, for instance, especially if combined with Cure Minor Wounds or Cure Light Wounds.

If you can't think of uses for Silent Image, I weep for you.

Speak with Animals would be crazy-useful for anyone who works around animals, or where animals could be useful, such as animal trainers, police officers, private investigators, and so on.

Given how valuable some magic item components would be in real life or in certain situations, Summon Component could be extremely useful indeed.

Lesser Vigor puts Cure Minor Wounds and even Cure Light Wounds to shame, honestly.

I'm sure almost any spell could be useful under the right circumstances, but those are the ones that jumped out at me.

[Cicciograna]

Back on the subject of Prestidigitation, with this spell, you can create small balls of cesium in an enemy's limbs. The cesium will react with the water in their blood, and it will explode with about the force of a hand grenade. The damage that would deal would probably kill the creature. If you're fighting something really large, you could form the cesium in their brain, and instakill them. (Unless they're undead, of course.)

I'm not sure it's a valid effect for the spell, since the description clearly says that the spell cannot deal damage.

[Necroticplague]

I'm not sure it's a valid effect for the spell, since the description clearly says that the spell cannot deal damage.

It's not doing damage, it's "creating a small object". The fact the object has dangerous properties is entirely sperate. of course, it doesn't have a stated mass limit, oonly an implied volumme one, so we might as well go straight for the gold and crush things under a small sheet of neutronium.

[Captnq]

Predigitation, out of the box, is best.

Summon instrument is number two, expecially if you allow ANY musical instrument.

For example, a Lute Bow can fire arrows. The steel flute is like a club.

[Rubik]

Predigitation, out of the box, is best.

Summon instrument is number two, expecially if you allow ANY musical instrument.

For example, a Lute Bow can fire arrows. The steel flute is like a club.I like dropping grand pianos and anvils (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anvil#Musical_instruments) on enemies.

Don't forget that you can play medleys on saws.

[Cicciograna]

It's not doing damage, it's "creating a small object". The fact the object has dangerous properties is entirely sperate. of course, it doesn't have a stated mass limit, oonly an implied volumme one, so we might as well go straight for the gold and crush things under a small sheet of neutronium.

That's why I said that I'm not sure, the open-endedness of the spell leaves a lot to interpretation. This risks to become a matter of semantics: one could argue that the Fireball spell doesn't do damage, because it only conjures evocates a fiery pellet, and the fact that the fire burns thus dealing damage is not dependant from the spell itself but only from a particular feature of the burning reaction.
I'm fully aware that this is a clear stretch, it was just an example to illustrate where discussions such this can go if left unattended :smallwink:

While it would be an interesting and creative use of the spell, were I to DM I think I wouldn't let it fly.

[Chronos]

Summon Instrument can't get you a grand piano, and probably not an anvil, either: The instrument has to be hand-held.

That still leaves you a lot of options, though. Especially if your table allows cantrips at will, like mine does (except for Cure Minor Wounds). Back when I was playing a bard, I used didgeridoos for ten-foot poles, a trombone to prop open a door, a pile of bagpipes to break a fall, and tubas whenever a random heavy object was needed.

[Phelix-Mu]

SUMMON THREAD NECROMANCY!

Did we find a way to renew this classic discussion without breaking forum rules?

[Necroticplague]

Summon Instrument can't get you a grand piano, and probably not an anvil, either: The instrument has to be hand-held.
Where's it say that? All I can see is effect: One handheld instrument and "too large to hold in two hands".For a sufficiently strong bard, neither of these would prevent summoning either of those.

[Deophaun]

Where's it say that? All I can see is effect: One handheld instrument and "too large to hold in two hands".For a sufficiently strong bard, neither of these would prevent summoning either of those.
My guess is that it says that right after the part you quoted:

You can’t summon an instrument too large to be held in two hands (such as a harp, piano, harpsichord, alphorn, or pipe organ).
Emphasis added.

[Maginomicon]

Deftness (Dragon Magazine #302)

On touch, grants +2 insight bonus on that creature's next skill check (up to 1 minute later). That's like an instant aid-another but you don't need another person for it.

[RegalKain]

Amanuensis is level 0, and is not "read quickly," it is "copy quickly." Also, it says explicitly in the spell that it triggers traps like Explosive Runes, and it has a range of 25'+5' per 2 levels.

Unless I'm missing something pretty serious, Amanuensis is not a Level 0 spell, it's a level 3 spell, am I missing something somewhere?

Oh it's in the Spell Compendium...what's the difference between SC version and Magic of Faerun version, other then a bit of wording I don't see any real difference? I'm so confused right now.

[TuggyNE]

Back on the subject of Prestidigitation, with this spell, you can create small balls of cesium in an enemy's limbs. The cesium will react with the water in their blood, and it will explode with about the force of a hand grenade. The damage that would deal would probably kill the creature. If you're fighting something really large, you could form the cesium in their brain, and instakill them. (Unless they're undead, of course.)

Line of effect: you don't have it. This doesn't even begin to work.

Similarly, no, you can't create a fatal overpressure with create water inside someone's skull, you can't bleed them to death by creating caltrops embedded, you can't drop a summoned whale on someone's head, and in general you have to follow all the rules in Spell Descriptions (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm). :smallannoyed:

[Deophaun]

Oh it's in the Spell Compendium...what's the difference between SC version and Magic of Faerun version, other then a bit of wording I don't see any real difference? I'm so confused right now.
The Spell Compendium went and scoured previously published material for spells and rebalanced a lot of them. So that's the difference: The Spell Compendium is the most recent, updated version, and Magic of Faerun isn't.

[Drachasor]

Back on the subject of Prestidigitation, with this spell, you can create small balls of cesium in an enemy's limbs. The cesium will react with the water in their blood, and it will explode with about the force of a hand grenade. The damage that would deal would probably kill the creature. If you're fighting something really large, you could form the cesium in their brain, and instakill them. (Unless they're undead, of course.)

That doesn't work for a lot of reasons.
1. Prestidigitation can't create weapons. This is clearly a type of explosive weapon.
2. It can't deal damage or affect spellcaster concentration. So making stuff INSIDE someone is pretty much right out. Making an explosive material, which deals damage, isn't ok either. That's like arguing you can make antimatter with it or saying Acid Arrow doesn't do damage.
3. It says you can create small objects that look crude and artificial. These objects are also extremely fragile (and fragile does not mean explosive). It does not say you can make any sort of matter you wish.


Where's it say that? All I can see is effect: One handheld instrument and "too large to hold in two hands".For a sufficiently strong bard, neither of these would prevent summoning either of those.

A handheld instrument isn't something you can MANAGE to hold in two hands. It is an instrument designed to be played and held using two or fewer hands.

[Rubik]

Use Summon Instrument to make one of these (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Otaq2tmNMM&feature=player_detailpage#t=128).

[Phelix-Mu]

Thread necromancy, but no one else seems to be paying attention. Maybe I misread the rules or missed some detail, but....


Nurturing Seeds
Abjuration
Level: Drd 0
Components: V, S, M, DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Up to 10 seeds touched
Duration: Permanent
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
You render up to 10 cuttings or seeds dormant and
suitable for transport. The seeds or cuttings can
then be taken to an area where inclement weather,
lack of moisture, or other problems have kept
plants from growing. The dormant seeds or
cuttings are planted there and will magically take
root and can be used to start new patches of
vegetation, anchoring the soil and creating an
environment suitable for more plants to survive.
This spell protects the transplants from normal
weather conditions, but defilers, hungry animals, or
unnatural phenomenon (like Tyr-Storms) can still
destroy the plants.
Material Components: A tiny bit of dung and a
drop of water.

From the official, authorized 3.5 Dark Sun of Athas.org. So useful for a druid during downtime.

[Chester]

Mage Hand. 'Nuff said.

[Rubik]

Mage Hand. 'Nuff said.Best used to stroke the ego.

[137beth]

Message is my favorite for intrigue games.
Other than that, Detect Magic and Ghost Sound are old stand-bys

[Quiddle]

I'm surprised that no one has mentioned no light. That spell great for all sorts of things.

[kenjigoku]

Detect and Read Magic never stop being useful.

At least for detect magic, permanent Arcane Sight does render detect magic rather useless :P

[Meowmasterish]

I'm not sure it's a valid effect for the spell, since the description clearly says that the spell cannot deal damage.

While the spell cannot deal damage, objects created can. Except, you can't use them as a weapon. Basically, the cesium is showing off a chemical property. A wooden ball created by Prestidigitation can still catch on fire, and fire can deal damage.

[Meowmasterish]

That doesn't work for a lot of reasons.
1. Prestidigitation can't create weapons. This is clearly a type of explosive weapon.
2. It can't deal damage or affect spellcaster concentration. So making stuff INSIDE someone is pretty much right out. Making an explosive material, which deals damage, isn't ok either. That's like arguing you can make antimatter with it or saying Acid Arrow doesn't do damage.
3. It says you can create small objects that look crude and artificial. These objects are also extremely fragile (and fragile does not mean explosive). It does not say you can make any sort of matter you wish.


It's not an explosive weapon, it is an explosive trinket. I would say the wooden ball metaphor, but I posted it already in this thread. As for the forming inside someone, form it in there stomach. There is room in there and won't distract them (until it explodes). It's not explosive because it's fragile, it's explosive because it is a certain metal. Also, it doesn't put a limit on the material that you can use. However, a DM can just say no, so it doesn't really matter.

[nyjastul69]

It's not an explosive weapon, it is an explosive trinket. I would say the wooden ball metaphor, but I posted it already in this thread. As for the forming inside someone, form it in there stomach. There is room in there and won't distract them (until it explodes). It's not explosive because it's fragile, it's explosive because it is a certain metal. Also, it doesn't put a limit on the material that you can use. However, a DM can just say no, so it doesn't really matter.

How are you getting line of effect to the creatures stomach with out creating a 1'x1' aperture?

[Deophaun]

A wooden ball created by Prestidigitation can still catch on fire, and fire can deal damage.
You can create a ball with prestidigitation, but nothing says that you can choose what material it is made out of. The fact that, whatever you make, the item will have the same fragile property and that it will not suitable for spell components probably means you're creating some form of psuedomatter rather than anything that can actually interact with the world. After all, if you can't create sulfur or charcoal (carbon), what makes you possibly believe you can create cesium?

[Kane0]

10. Cure Minor Wounds
9. Read Magic
8. Detect Magic
7. Mage Hand
6. Mending
5. Message
4. Arcane Mark
3. Dancing Lights
2. Ghost Sound
1. Prestidigitation

[magwaaf]

i would have to go with prestidigitation myself but i wanna play a cg caster sometime that teaches city kids open close and ghost sound just so they can
have fun messing with the neighbors at night.

esp under pathfinder rules where you never run out of cantrips

[Zaydos]

I'd say Prestidigitation, I shall never eat bland food again, followed by Ghost Sound (I've beaten encounters meant to be tpks with this one before), then probably Detect Magic (permanent anything is expensive/high level), followed by Light/Dancing Lights (light's superior duration is useful but Dancing Lights can pull off some neat tricks), and after that you get into the other utility cantrips.

[Gemini476]

No LightBoVD is stupidly good, but I'll have to agree on Least Wish.


Change:You transform one object of Fine size or
smaller into another object of roughly the same size. The
object can weigh no more than 8 ounces.
The change must be within the same kingdom (animal,
vegetable, or mineral). For example, you could change a
piece of paper into scrap of linen, and then change that
into a rose. Likewise, you could change a coin into a ring.
You could not, however, turn a strip of leather into a
piece of paper.
Chill:You reduce the temperature of an object by
about 40° F, but never below freezing (32° F). After an
hour the object’s temperature returns to normal.
Clean:You remove dirt, dust, and stains from floors,
walls, dishes, windows, and the like, leaving these
surfaces or objects spotless. You can clean an object with
a volume of 1 cubic foot, or 1 square foot of the surface of
a larger object, each round. The effect does not remove
any foreign object of Fine size or larger. Dirt you remove
is permanently gone, but objects you clean can get dirty
again just like anything else.
Color:You bring color to an object. You can restore
faded hues or give it a new color. If you add color, it must
be from the visible spectrum (red, orange, yellow, green,
blue, indigo, or violet). You cannot change an object’s
pattern, such as adding or removing stripes or polka dots,
but you can change the color in a pattern so that, for
example, a blue garment with white stripes becomes
green with yellow stripes.
Dampen:You leave an object damp to the touch for 1
hour. Damp objects have fire resistance 2 while the
effect lasts.
Dirty:You soil, spot, and sully walls, floors, dishes,
garments, or the like, leaving them dusty, filthy, or
stained. You can dirty an object with a volume of 1 cubic
foot, or 1 square foot of the surface of a larger object,
each round. Dirt you add remains after the effect ends,
but objects you soil can be cleaned again just like
anything else.
Dry:You remove dampness and excess moisture from
an object. Moisture you remove does not return after the
effect ends, but the object can become wet again just like
anything else.
Firefinger:You cause a jet of flame up to ½ foot long
to shoot forth from your finger. The flame is hot and
ignites combustible materials. Lighting a torch with this
effect is a standard action (rather than a full-round
action), but lighting any other fire with it takes at least a
standard action (DM’s discretion).
Flavor:You give a substance a better, worse, or differ-
ent flavor. You could, for example, make porridge taste
like lobster bisque. You do not change the substance’s
quality or wholesomeness. Spoiled food remains spoiled,
a poisoned drink is still deadly, and inedible material
provides no nourishment—you can make a twig taste
like steak, but it remains a twig.
Gather:You neatly collect numerous objects. The
objects you gather can be no larger than Fine size, no two
items can be more than 10 feet apart, and their total
weight cannot exceed 1 pound. You can place the gath-
ered objects into a container you touch, or you can form
a stack or pile that you touch.
You can gather selectively; for instance, you can pick
up just the coins from an area.
Polish:You bring luster to a wood, metal, stone,
leather, glass, or ceramic object. The object must be clean
to start with. It remains shiny after the effect ends but
can become dull again like anything else.
Sketch:You create a two-dimensional visual figment
of whatever you desire. You can leave the image hanging
in the air, in which case it is immobile, or place it on a
mobile object, such as a shield. The image can be no more
than 1-foot square, and it lasts a maximum of 1 hour.
Stitch:You magically sew seams in textiles or leather.
You can create new stitching or repair old work. Unlike
the mending cantrip, you cannot heal rips, holes, or tears
(though you can patch or sew them together). If you
have thread on hand, the stitches you make remain after
the effect ends, but they are no stronger or weaker than
normal stitching. You also can sew without thread, but
then the seams last only an hour.
Tie:You magically tie a firm knot (as though taking 10
with the Use Rope skill) in a thread, string, cord, rope,
or cable up to 10 feet long. You can knot together two
such objects if they’re within 1 foot of each other.
Warm:You increase the temperature of an object by
about 40° F, but never above 140° F. After an hour the
object’s temperature returns to normal

Oh, and I'm pretty sure that I could find some use for Preserve Organ. Extremely fresh giblets is just the start of it - using it for donor transplant would be pretty ironic, given the intended use.