The HP Trick

[CIDE]

Yes, I've read multiple threads that tell you how to do the Vigor+Share Pain+Share Power stuff with psionics. However, upon reading the description for all the required bits to that build I simply do not get it.

I got Share Pain down. That one is obvious as HP taken is split among the person and their psicrystal. Vigor too I understand with its 5 temporary hp/1 pp spent. So how is it that the combo somehow doubles/tripples/wtfever the temporary HP a character gains?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psion.htm

Share Powers (Su)

At the owner’s option, he can have any power (but not any psi-like ability) he manifests on himself also affect his psicrystal. The psicrystal must be within 5 feet of him at the time of the manifestation to receive the benefit. If the power has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the psicrystal if it moves farther than 5 feet away, and will not affect the psicrystal again, even if it returns to its owner before the duration expires.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/vigor.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/sharePain.htm

Is there something in there that I'm missing that allows the stuff people are doing?

[jindra34]

Yes, I've read multiple threads that tell you how to do the Vigor+Share Pain+Share Power stuff with psionics. However, upon reading the description for all the required bits to that build I simply do not get it.

I got Share Pain down. That one is obvious as HP taken is split among the person and their psicrystal. Vigor too I understand with its 5 temporary hp/1 pp spent. So how is it that the combo somehow doubles/tripples/wtfever the temporary HP a character gains?

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/classes/psion.htm


http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/vigor.htm
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/sharePain.htm

Is there something in there that I'm missing that allows the stuff people are doing?
You gain 5 temp HP, you share vigor with your psicrystal so it also gains 5 temp HP. How hard is it to understand?

[1of3]

The vigor also works on the cristall, therefore it's 5 HP for you and 5 HP for the cristall. Therefore 10 HP total.

Then use Share Pain to send half your damage to the cristall.

[Psyren]

It doubles your temp HP, because whatever comes at you is divided by two. So effectively you are getting 10 HP per PP spent; this is a similar rate of return to the Heal spell, which is itself the most efficient heal in the game.

You do have to pay a 3PP premium at the start of the day for Share Pain, but (a) this combo comes online as much as 8 levels earlier, and (b) it is proactive rather than reactive healing.

[CIDE]

People made it seem as though the HP also went to the caster/character.

[Draz74]

In addition, since Share Pain doesn't have the "This shared damage cannot be reduced in any way" clause that it probably should have, your Psicrystal arguably takes 8 fewer damage from each shared hit than it would normally, thanks to its Hardness.

[Psyren]

People made it seem as though the HP also went to the caster/character.

What do you mean? It does go to the caster.



Vigor
...
Range: Personal
Target: You

[Glimbur]

People made it seem as though the HP also went to the caster/character.

Effectively, it does. What is HP? It's the thing you die when you run out of it. Now you can send half of your damage elsewhere. Barring dispels or null psionics fields, these hp are as good as yours.

[Godskook]

People made it seem as though the HP also went to the caster/character.

Step 1: Cast Vigor on yourself, sharing with your psicrystal(You have X temp HP, he has X temp HP)
Step 2: Cast Share Pain with your psicrystal
Step 3: Take damage
---->Incoming damage is cut in half, and you take half and your psicrystal takes half.
---->This lasts until you take X*2 damage
---->Effectively, you have X*2 temp HP because of this

[candycorn]

Say the psion is level 9, and has 55 hp. He manifests a Vigor, sharing with psicrystal, and gaining 45 temp HP. He shares it with his psicrystal, which also gains 45 temp HP.

He manifests share pain on his psycrystal. He takes a hit from a power attacking giant, for 68 damage. Half the damage is sent to the psycrystal. the psion takes 34 damage, going to 55/55 hp with 11 temp hp. the psycrystal takes 34 damage, and has 11 temp hp remaining.

Now, normally, the giant would have blown through all 45 temp HP, and dealt an additional 23 damage to the psion. If share pain alone had been up, the psicrystal would have taken 34 damage, and would have been destroyed (but the psion would take no damage). But simply by using share power, along with share pain, the psion and psicrystal emerge from a deadly hit unscathed. Further, the psion can refresh temp HP with a standard action and a few PP, keeping the x2 benefit going.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

People made it seem as though the HP also went to the caster/character.


Share Powers (Su)

At the owner’s option, he can have any power (but not any psi-like ability) he manifests on himself also affect his psicrystal. The psicrystal must be within 5 feet of him at the time of the manifestation to receive the benefit. If the power has a duration other than instantaneous, it stops affecting the psicrystal if it moves farther than 5 feet away, and will not affect the psicrystal again, even if it returns to its owner before the duration expires.

Also =/= Instead

Yes, both your character gains the full benefit of Vigor, and his psicrystal also gains the full benefit of Vigor. It grants +5 temporary HP per powerpoint spent to both of you.

[Rubik]

Say the psion is level 9, and has 55 hp. He manifests a Vigor, sharing with psicrystal, and gaining 45 temp HP. He shares it with his psicrystal, which also gains 45 temp HP.

He manifests share pain on his psycrystal. He takes a hit from a power attacking giant, for 68 damage. Half the damage is sent to the psycrystal. the psion takes 34 damage, going to 55/55 hp with 11 temp hp. the psycrystal takes 34 damage, and has 11 temp hp remaining.

Now, normally, the giant would have blown through all 45 temp HP, and dealt an additional 23 damage to the psion. If share pain alone had been up, the psicrystal would have taken 34 damage, and would have been destroyed (but the psion would take no damage). But simply by using share power, along with share pain, the psion and psicrystal emerge from a deadly hit unscathed. Further, the psion can refresh temp HP with a standard action and a few PP, keeping the x2 benefit going.Well, the psicrystal does get 8 damage knocked off the hit, due to hardness, but otherwise you're correct.

[candycorn]

Well, the psicrystal does get 8 damage knocked off the hit, due to hardness, but otherwise you're correct.

Technically true, but if I were DMing, that concession, if requested, would also come with a significant increase in the amount of Shatter spells in enemy spellbooks. Likely sudden maximized.

[Arbitrarious]

How would you say Intellect Fortress interacts with share pain? In a game I played it was ruled that the Share Pain was dealing the damage so I would use Intellect Fortress to half the damage being shared. Thoughts?

[candycorn]

Personally, I'd not allow Share Pain damage to be reduced a second time. All resistances and such should be based solely on the resistances of the initial target.

Look at it this way. You have share pain active. You have Resist Energy (Fire) active, and shared with your psicrystal, and thus have Resistance to Fire of 20.

You get hit with a fire ray for 40 damage. Resistance reduces it to 20. You take 20, your psicrystal takes 20. Now, the psicrystal energy resistance kicks in, and means that it takes 0.

I feel that either the damage takes place before resistances and immunities, or after.

If before, then a fire elemental with a psicrystal and this power active is in a fireball. It takes 25 damage. Immunity will reduce that to 0, but first, it's split. The psicrystal must deal with 13 damage.

If after, then scenario 2. Psicrystal has energy immunity to acid. Our fire elemental doesn't. Fire elemental takes an acid attack for 46 damage. Elemental has no resistance, so both take 23. No resistances, no immunities, no nothing, after it's split.

Allowing it to apply twice is a distortion of balance, in my opinion.