Shadowcasters? How good are they?

[Cornelius Grim]

I recently rolled up a Shadowcaster character, and am curious about how well he is going to do. I understand that at low levels, they are limited, but how useful are they? I rolled him up at level five, and took mostly mysteries that are detrimental to the enemy's fighting ability (i.e. darkness, difficult terrain stuff, etc) and have a +34 to hide (Don't ask about that, 20 of it is from miscellaneous factors...). Does anybody have any wisdom on how much fun it will be, either from personal experience or other means?

I'm playing on playing the character in a vaguely rogue-like way. Hiding in the shadows, attacking, and then hiding again. Due to lack of offensive mysteries at low level, for now it will mostly be stabbing and hiding.

[Psyren]

It's roughly T4 as written; it has interesting abilities but runs out of steam very quickly.

Here's the handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=498.0)

[Gavinfoxx]

Yea, the tier system puts them at T4.

[OracleofSilence]

They can nova extremely well in mid to low levels. I alo think i has been shown that you end up with more powers by starting off as a wizard and using the creeping darkness (or something) rules to change your spells known into powers.

I may be completely wrong about that though

[Cornelius Grim]

Okay, cool. Now, I have another question, but you'll likely consider me to be a complete idiot for not being familiar with this... But I do not know the tier system very well. Is the higher number better, or the lower number?

Aside from the tier-base answers, it sounds like the gist of what you guys are saying is that they can be powerful, but they run out of abilities quickly?

I appreciate your input, by the way. :smallredface:

[Flickerdart]

A lower number is better; the most powerful classes are T1. Shadowcaster is on par with Barbarians and Rogues, to give some Core examples. It can do some pretty neat stuff, but not a lot of it, and not very often.

[Cornelius Grim]

A lower number is better; the most powerful classes are T1. Shadowcaster is on par with Barbarians and Rogues, to give some Core examples. It can do some pretty neat stuff, but not a lot of it, and not very often.

Ah, okay, thanks. Well, it's not the best... Rogues and barbarians are fun for me, so I might enjoy this just as much. Luckily, I have a mind for optimization. :smallamused:

Thanks for your input, guys. I'll make sure to take a look at that handbook linked, and I'll see if I can't powergame enough to get this character on Tier 3. :smallbiggrin:

[Timeless Error]

The guy who wrote the Shadowcaster originally is unhappy with the version that ended up being published, and has suggested the following changes to his class online here (http://www.enworld.org/forum/3273239-post2.html). I'd recommend that you take a look at them and see what you think.

[JKTrickster]

You probably can, since Shadowcasters do appraoch Tier 3 as you level into the mid-high levels.

I think the original creator issued an "unofficial errata" for the class to help address some of its issues. I'm not sure where you can find it, but I would think such fixes would definitely help you out. Last time I remembered, they definitely addressed problems and not really anything game changing to boost the Shadowcaster so your DM should be fine with it.

[Manateee]

The Shadowcaster largely has level-appropriate abilities for a full spellcaster (and that can be deceptive), but is extremely limited in spell selection and its daily limits.

The actual power of the abilities is actually fairly high (Time Stop, Control Winds, Shadow spells at the appropriate levels, Flicker, some nasty SoD/SoLs), and it's easy to look at a Shadowcaster build and only recognize those, but the systemic limits of Shadow Magic - such as the extremely restrictive Mystery progression and Mysteries per day, the weakly scaling effects/DCs, the frequency of Necromancy and Enchantment effects (not crippling for a typical caster, who can just learn or prepare a couple other spells to get around resistances, but problematic for the SC) - make it a bit of a dud in actual play (even nonspecced generalist Wizards usually get to cast more than 1-3 level-appropriate spells per day).

The easiest way I've found to effectively play a Shadowcaster in the typical game environment while maintaining its general atmosphere is a Beguiler/Shadowcaster/Noctumancer/Mystic Theurge build, using early entry tricks on the Beguiler side, picking up Able Learner to keep the Tricksy Shadowyness at the appropriate level, and using wands and scrolls to flesh out longevity and versatility.

[Coidzor]

You know how level 1 wizards run out of spells woefully quickly even if they only use one per combat?

Shadowcasters never leave that phase of existence as far as I recall.

[Wyntonian]

I played a shadowcaster 2/ Rogue 2 in one game. I find the class interesting but a bit underwhelming. You might want to look at some Iron Chef competitions for inspiration. I think a couple entries used shadowcasters.

[hex0]

If you can build a Shadow Caster/Telflammor Shadow Lord/Mystic Theurge I would be happy....

[Flickerdart]

Why MT? The whole point of Shadowlord is stacking full attacks, and MT gives you nothing for that.

[Timeless Error]

I think the original creator issued an "unofficial errata" for the class to help address some of its issues. I'm not sure where you can find it[...]

Uh, I linked it in the post directly above yours.

[Calanon]

It's roughly T4 as written; it has interesting abilities but runs out of steam very quickly.

Here's the handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=498.0)

What does it mean when it says that it can get Dual 9's on both sides of Noctumancer? Mind explaining the trick if you know it? (Anyone?)

[hex0]

What does it mean when it says that it can get Dual 9's on both sides of Noctumancer? Mind explaining the trick if you know it? (Anyone?)

Dual Nines make anyone happy!

[The Shadowmind]

What does it mean when it says that it can get Dual 9's on both sides of Noctumancer? Mind explaining the trick if you know it? (Anyone?)

Early entry MT or Noctumance of the Wizard side, so you get Shadowcaster 3/Wizard 1/Noct 10/MT 6 for 19 Shadowcasting, 17 Wizard Casting.

[Calanon]

Early entry MT or Noctumance of the Wizard side, so you get Shadowcaster 3/Wizard 1/Noct 10/MT 6 for 19 Shadowcasting, 17 Wizard Casting.

Alright now explain how you qualify for MT? Where is your Divine casting?

[hex0]

Alright now explain how you qualify for MT? Where is your Divine casting?

Shadowcaster has extra special exceptions! check the handbook

[Calanon]

Shadowcaster has extra special exceptions! check the handbook

I see... Doesn't make sense in the slightest but i get it... :smallconfused:

[Acanous]

I was banned from using Shadowcasters in two D&D Groups. I have yet to actually be allowed to play one.

I usually play illusionists, you understand, and my prefferred method is Wiz/Master Spec/Shadowcraft Mage/Shadowcrafter

They thought it was a base class that did that, somehow.