Build an Airship

[MukkTB]

I want a big flying ship.
Bonus points for:
Not relying on lighter than air gasses.
Being construct-able at lower levels.
Being cheap.
Having good combat capability.

[Greenish]

It seems you want several ships. :smallamused:


Anyway, if lighter than air gases are out, how about other materials, like lighter than air wood?

[CIDE]

Isn't there a book dedicated to just this sort of thing...? Or was that a 3rd party thing? I know Pathfinder has a huge chunk for it.

[Doughnut Master]

Controllable reverse gravity traps to generate lift perhaps?

[Siosilvar]

Wall of fire has a duration of concentration. One 4th-level slot per day powers a steam engine for up to 16 hours; ask your DM what the DC is to build a working steam engine and helicopter blade (I suggest DC 30 or 35 Knowledge followed by DC 25 Craft).

You could also try to do the math on a decanter of endless water to get your lift - geyser mode is 5 gallons per second, have fun coming up with a velocity for it. I don't think it'll be enough to be cheap; decanters are fairly expensive at 9000 apiece.

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by MukkTB
Not relying on lighter than air gasses.

Are you ruling these out completely, or just giving bonus points for a design that doesn't use them?

If the former, then you'll need to be more specific about how you want this thing powered. You need to generate lift somehow, either with thrust and some type of airfoil, or the lighter-than-air option. You can always have a S.H.I.E.L.D. helicarrier held up by gnomish fanblades or something, but that will violate some of your other preferences, in particular "lower level" and "cheap."

[Krosta]

In the Forgotten Realms campaign supplement Shining South, the airship is a wondrous item and it doesn't rely on any lighter-than-air gas. Only flying spells. However, it's not cheap (it costs 400.000 gp), and takes a 15th level spellcaster to craft.

[Gavinfoxx]

Getting it Aloft Options:

Option 1:

That Flying Ship in the Forgotten Realms book "Shining South"

Pros: Traditional to FR. Looks like a ship -- A Wondrous Item!
Cons: Needs a Huge Crew. Wooden, and normal wood even. Expensive. Slow. Looks like a ship... uses Wind Power to move. Utterly vulnerable to natural antimagic area. Also vulnerable to attack.

Option 2:

Eberron Style Flying Ships -- an item with a Bound Elemental, uses alchemically treated "Soarwood", and a bound elemental in a ring. In the core eberron book.

Pros: Fast. Traditional to Eberron. Relatively Inexpensive. Lighter than Air -- will float, even in an antimagic area. The thing that gets it in the air does NOT REQUIRE magical crafting to make!
Cons: That type of elemental binding likely isn't ethical. That type of elemental binding also needs a specific feat at high level. Soarwood isn't too terribly durable. Locomotion doesn't work in a natural antimagic area, just the floating. Probably needs a crew too, though the crew is relatively small.

Option 3: Enchanting a Stronghold Space using the Stronghold Builder's Guide rules

Pros: Can be made of lots of interesting materials--not necessarily wood! Gives movement for interplanar options. Can be quite fast. Gives swimming/earthgliding/etc options, great!
Cons: If you use these rules for the main way of doing locomotion, then the price starts adding up real quick. Very vulnerable to a natural antimagic area.

Option 4: Making the ship an Effigy (From complete arcane)

Pros: Self Locomotion! Can follow orders! Can look like an animal or wyvern with added hit dice (and thus size) or whatever! Can fly on it's own power! It can fly and move about in antimagic area!
Cons: Has a low number of hit points, so it can be 'killed' with direct hit point damage. Arguably not a con -- most of the rules for vehicles have them with low hit points anyway for some reason, and it might manage to get a hardness from those. It's not necessarily a 'smart' ship at this point. Will need to flap it's wings to stay aloft. Might need some house rules to get the right form of an effigy -- making it so much bigger than say, a Wyvern, might require DM intervention. Will need silly template stacking to not be too vulnerable. Might be targeted by intimidated people (AHH ITS A WYVERN AHHH KILL IT!!).

Option 5: Using the actual spell (Suspension) in Shining South that is the basis of their ships, maybe in a Spell Clock or a Repeating Trap
Pros: Really, Really cheap. I mean, a spell clock or repeating trap or whatever of this would be RIDICULOUSLY cheap. Can get very large amounts of weight aloft. Did I mention cheap?
Cons: Suppressed in an area of natural antimagic. It requires spells to be actively cast, either by a person activating a wondrous item, or casting the spell from their list, or pulling a lever for the trap, or a Spell Clock automatically casting it. Doesn't provide locomotion!

Option 6: Nautiloid
Pro: flies like a champ. Can leave the atmosphere.
Cons: As far as I know, there are no 3.5e rules for these. Needs a spellcaster as a full time helmsman.

Option 7: Gate Zeppelin from Planar Handbook
Pros: mundane flight and propulsion, can hover, can Gate to another plane 1/day
Cons: slow and big targets. getting a good place to set down is difficult...

Locomotion Options not part of the above:

Option 1: Get some tireless flying creature to pull it

Pro: You get a few flying effigies or flying mindless undead to pull your swank flying boat! Awesome! They can keep it moving in an antimagic field, cool!
Con: They can be targeted, and are vulnerable. Also the cables or ropes connecting them to the ship can be targeted. Also, having separate creatures from the ship providing movement to it gives miscellaneous problems of their own.

Option 2: Decanter of Endless Water + Riverine Nozzle + Permanency-ed Wall of Fire

Pro: THRUST. LOTS AND LOTS of thrust. Like, if you do things right, Jet engine thrust level! You can call it a PLASMA DRIVE!

Con: You are spewing lots of water (or steam, or plasma, or whatever if you added some bits to it to heat it) behind you. This might upset people / the weather / the Druid / certain creatures. Suppressed in Antimagic area. Also, someone generally has to interact with this item to get it to do stuff. Also, problems with aiming the thrust, you'll need a fancy rudder setup.

Option 3: Sails
Pro: Already in most settings. Cheap. Work in antimagic area.
Con: Can't generally go faster than the wind, not sturdy. Might require Stormwrack rules, which are cumbersome.

Option 4: Using some perpetual motion machine (there are a bunch that can be made with D&D spells) to move a propeller
Pro: Can be relatively fast
Con: Easily damaged, won't work in antimagic area. Might need the heat metal / cool metal thing, or any of the other D&D perpetual motion machines options.

Option 5 (part of the first section): The whole thing is an Effigy, like an upsized Wyvern Effigy
Pro: It can move pretty fast and maneuver! It can fly without Suspension!
Con: Cons shown in getting it aloft section

Option 6:
Frostfire Engine from Frostburn. Lightning Turbine from Arms & Equipment Guide or Cloudkeel from Arms & Equipment Guide
Pros: I dont know these that well
Cons: Expensive as all heck

Option 7: Dragonfly Longship from Dragon Magazine #331
Pros: Doesn't need a big crew, fast (winged) flying speed with relatively good maneuveability has a very useful weapon
Cons: Expensive, probably doesn't work in antimagic area.

Option 8: Make a Soarwhale into a Zombie. Hollow it out
Pro: You are flying in a giant undead zombie whale blimp
Con: You are flying in a giant undead zombie whale blimp. Also the massive amount of HD means that you need to use something obscure and without a HD cap, like an Elixir of the Unfailing Servant or something.

Getting it Intelligence

Option 1: Haunt Shift

Pro: An easy way to get it intelligence.
Con: Evil, uses negative energy. Makes it, you know, haunted. Might not always let the inhabiting spirit have full control over everything. Requires some intelligent undead to start with. To bypass these issues (ie, get a Deathless / positive energy version), will need LOTS of DM Fiat / Custom spell research / questing. Probably supressed in antimagic. From a fairly oboscure source book (Libris Mortis I think?)

Option 2: Embedding a Sentient Magic Item in the structure/workings somewhere

Pro: Fairly easy to accomplish. Gives it Sentience.
Con: Will probably only work well with the Effigy version, and only if there's some way to link the commands of the magic item to what the Effigy does. Might not give it control over all the ancillary aspects of the ship, unless it has access to lots of unseen servants / mage hand / etc. sorts of things. Probably supressed in Antimagic.

Option 3: For the constructs, use Rudimentary Intelligence from Dragon Magazine #327.
Pro. Fairly easy to accomplish. Animal intelligence. Doesn't require humanoid constructs, unlike the feat alternative (yay!)
Con: Somewhat expensive! Needs access to Circle Magic (ie, extreme caster level buffs) to get it to normal human level intelligence.

[MukkTB]

Woot Nice Gavinfox.

BTW I did mean from a players perspective. Which one would you recommend using Gavinfox?

[Gavinfoxx]

Well. Do you have Craft Wondrous Item? Craft Construct? Bind Elemental? Access to people with those feats? What spell lists do you have access to? Do you have access to find or research obscure spells from those lists? Any of the Cost Reduction feats? What is your highest caster level? What is the highest level of spellcasting that you all have access to? Are they from the prepared lists or spontaneous? Can you go out and buy spellcasting services or scrolls? Of up to what level, and how obscure are the lists? What raw materials do you have access to? Obscure minerals? Obscure types of wood and alchemical recipes? How much money do you have? How much time do you have? What ways of solving the 'wealth' or 'labor' or 'material' issue do you have access to? Any magical methods of solving those? What is the magical and technological level of the setting? What splatbooks do you have access to for solving the problem? Also -- why specifically do you want an Airship?

[Greenish]

Option 6: Nautiloid
Pro: flies like a champ. Can leave the atmosphere.
Cons: I don't know where the 3.5e rules for these are.Lords of Madness, I seem to recall.

[Garan]

Funny, this is something I wanted for my campaign. Here are my suggestions (bear in mind I am going with strictly core 3.5 rules):
Alternating castings of levitate and featherfall (can be done through wands):
Pros: Low required level (5 for making the wands).
Cons: Pretty high cost. We're talking about a recurring cost of 7,500 gold per levitate wand, not to mention that this only lifts 500 pounds. Either raise the caster level, or make more of them. Also vulnerable to anti-magic, and needs a caster to constantly recast the spells.

I have considered replacing the levitate with Tenser's Floating Disk, whcih would halve the costs of the wands. Still, a high caster level or multiple wands still are needed.

Otiluke's Telekinetic Sphere:
Pros: High duration, adds protection at the same time
Cons (many of them): High caster level (I mean level 15). Needs a spellcaster at the helm. Has a rather small size (1 ft. diameter/caster level). Very vulnerable to anti-magic. Cannot fire without lowering shields, which also causes it to fall as if under a featherfall spell.

By the way, depending on how you view Featherfall's effect, you could change how this all works. Either it reduces gravity (which allows things dependent on weight better) or it reduces the speed at which you accelerate (but still have the same weight).

[Palanan]

So, MukkTB, is there any particular reason why you're not in favor of the lighter-than-air approach? Is there some ruling against it in the campaign?

In aeronautical parlance, "airship" almost by definition means a craft that gains lift by being lighter overall than the surrounding atmosphere. For me, an airship that doesn't follow this approach is something like a submarine built out of screen doors. :smalltongue:

[Aergoth]

Step 1: Find a Skyberg (Frostburn) which is essentially a giant, flying iceberg.
Step 2: Hollow it out a little. Fire spells, or a Wand of Shape Ice (Frostburn, 11,250 GP)
Step 3: Stick some sails on it! How you do this is up to you. You could give it great big fans on the side and put a rudder so you're flying something that looks vaguely like a giant fish? Or you could put the sail in front and power it with a Gust of Wind or something similar. Magic of Eberron has the Wind's Favour spell, which does better than gust of wind for propelling things.
Step 4: ??? Make sure you don't melt your giant flying ice-fortress. Control temperature is your friend here.
Step 5: Profit.

I'd suggest playing a druid here, capable of casting 4th level spells, if possible (but between 5-7th level minimum) Spells like Frostfell slide would let you move around your ice-ship with remarkable ease, meld into ice is good for ambushes, and your skyberg is pretty easy to repair. Just add cold water! And then rain down frozen death on your enemies.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

First, you buy/build a vessel out of whatever you want to make it out of, the only thing that really matters is the material's hardness (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/exploration.htm#hardness) and cost. It can be any shape you want it to be, provided you meet three criteria:

1. Its main body must fit within a 30 ft. square, I'd make it a 30-ft. square box with the top and bottom being either domes or pyramid-shaped. Put an extension ladder on a rotating platform at the top, similar to what a modern firetruck has, but put enough sections on it that it can reach at least 30 ft. beyond the main body. There should be hatches at the top and on the underside at the least. Include plenty of places to tie ropes to. Attach several chains at the bottom, the longer they are the better, just an ordinary chain with one end welded to the main body will be better than anything more complicated. Be sure to include stairs/ladders, rooms, decks, etc. in the interior. Put a ramp at the bottom hatch that can fold in and extend out, don't worry about including a way to extend/retract it.

2. It must have sheetlike extensions, i.e. a canvas skirt that extends straight out on all sides would be sufficient, provided it's big enough. It would need to be able to fold up to fit within that 30 ft. square, but don't bother including any way to fold it up. Its presence alone is sufficient.

3. Give it wheels at the bottom, you absolutely want to put wheels on this thing. It will (almost) never use them, but just having them is absolutely necessary. Bonus points if you just put one wheel right in the middle, don't worry about how it's going to balance on it.

Second, you add some custom automatic reset magic device traps (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/traps.htm#magicDeviceTrapCost). These should actually bestow beneficial spells, so you basically have infinite-use magic items that activate by touching or walking over them. A Create Food and Water Trap will make it so you won't need a place to store supplies or a place to cook anything. Add some triggered-when-touched traps that bestow Cloud Wings (SC), (Greater) Wings of Air (SC), (Greater) Mage Armor, Shield of Faith, Barkskin, etc. Also include one on the exterior which bestows one of the Repair Damage line of spells (SC), and attach small chains to the outside of the hull around it within reach of touching it.

Third, you hire one or more friendly/helpful (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/diplomacy.htm) NPC spellcasters. The spell capability you're looking for is Animate Objects (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/animateObjects.htm) (Bard 6, Cleric 6) and Permanency (Sor/Wiz 5, Time domain 5) at a caster level of at least 16th. You'll be paying spellcasting rates (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#spell) for two Animate Objects at caster level 16+ (the higher, the better), and two Permanencies at caster level 14+ (again, the higher, the better). Note that you may have to buy two Scrolls of Permanency instead, and be sure to get them with a 3,000 XP allowance (the DMG treasure table scroll is only 2,000 XP).

The guy casting Animate Objects will have to cast it on two gargantuan or smaller objects first, and then redirect each instance of the spell to the colossal ship. Two Animate Objects at caster level 16 will provide enough bulk of animation to turn the ship itself into a Colossal Animated Object (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/animatedObject.htm). It has wheels, so its land speed is 50 ft. The sheetlike extensions will give it a 25 ft. (clumsy) fly speed. It has complete control over the movement of all of its attachments (sheet, extension ladder, chains, doors, wheel, ramp, etc.), so it can fold and unfurl the sheet and wave/flap it to fly, maintain balance on the wheel with relative ease, use the ladder and chains to make slam attacks, use the chains to keep its balance and to pick up objects, open and close its doors (and keep them from being opened), etc.

Finally, the ship itself should be able to reach and touch the aforementioned traps which bestow beneficial effects. That means it can be continually buffed with Cloud Wings (+30 ft. fly speed), (Greater) Wings of Air (maneuverability improves to poor, or average for greater), (Greater) Mage Armor (+4 armor bonus, or +6 for greater), Shield of Faith, Barksksin, etc. giving it considerably better AC and movement. It can spam-touch the Repair Damage trap as often as it likes to constantly fix any damage it takes (you can bestow a touch-spell on up to eight allies in a round, so each small chain should be able to touch the trap at least eight times per round). It can load/unload any cargo itself with the chains and its immense strength and carrying capacity. It can maneuver the ladder at the top and the ramp at the bottom however you direct it to. It can use its slam attack or trample nearby opponents (technically even when flying), so it's effective in combat. It can pilot itself tirelessly and unerringly so you don't need a crew of any kind. You could even give it a Heroics trap to grant it Tower Shield Proficiency, and give it a colossal +1 Animated Tower Shield which floats nearby and can be used to grant the entire vessel total cover from one direction at any time.

[MukkTB]

I'm rolling a character with the eventual plan of owning an airship. Going to have to start at fairly low levels. The DM probably won't include airships specifically, but he will allow pretty much any official material. So the plan is to figure out what is needed to build an airship, then roll a character that will eventually be able to do it. Of course the only thing the character really needs is enough cash to pay for someone else to do the spell casting.

@Palanan I'm worried about the survivability of the vessel. I don't want to go down because someone shot a flaming arrow. With magic at least the attacker has to be a spellcaster with antimagic field or dispel magic to quickly crash the vessel.

I guess the ideal construction would be to create a lighter than air material that won't end up like the Hindenburg but won't fail with antimagic field. The undead airwhale maybe? If the plan is to use the thing in combat it shouldn't be a liability.

I guess it's not really practical. At high level you might as well be on your own plane astrally projecting yourself to the material plane. (According to total optimization.) At low enough levels for it to be useful I'm not sure you could build it.

[Tvtyrant]

My suggestion is to use a Permanent Wall of Fire (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/wallOfFire.htm) and a Decanter of Endless Water (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/wondrousItems.htm#decanterofEndlessWater) in order to make a steam driven ship; you simply blast the water through the length of the wall and watch the ship jet forwards. There are a couple ways to make it glide better (permanent animated objects that you cast levitate on, etc), but it should be able to fly as is.

[Gavinfoxx]

I guess the ideal construction would be to create a lighter than air material that won't end up like the Hindenburg but won't fail with antimagic field. The undead airwhale maybe? If the plan is to use the thing in combat it shouldn't be a liability.


That is why you integrate Soarwood into the construction of the thing, if you are REALLY worried about that. I wasn't particularly worried, so I didn't do that. Also, take a look at an auto repeating trap of Suspension. I decided to make my airship a hollowed out Effigy of an upsized Wyvern, and an integrated auto-repeating Suspension trap in it. I also integrated, in the interior, an Intelligent Collar of Perpetual Attendance, with the 'speaking' intelligent item boost, to be the pilot and mind of the ship. I also integrated an auto repair system (auto repeating trap of repair minor damage), and some ad-hoc everbright / blueshine anti rust and anti acid treatment into the hull, and an auto repeating trap of cure minor wounds medical system.

Airship
Base Construct Cost (as a huge effigy) 24000
Everbright / Blueshine anti rust Treatment 2000
Collar of Perpetual Attendance + Speaking Sentient Item 6000
Repair Minor Damage 'Trap' System 250
Cure Minor Wounds 'Trap' System 250
Suspension 'Trap' System 14000

Anyway, if you want to have stuff, be an Artificer, and use some of the cost reduction strategies. As an artificer, you technically have the feats and spell access to maybe be able to do this by level 6 or 7, maybe? That's really all there is to it! And as an artificer, you have a whole TON of ways to make money!

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7274

Also look at the Mechonomocon, maybe?

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=177

[Greenish]

Windwright Captain (Explorer's Handbook) PrC gets the use of a free airship for limited services rendered to House Lyrandar, and the option to claim the ship as your own at listed price.

[Hirax]

I'm late, but for what it's worth my preferred method of flying ships is the suspension spell from Shining South, but not the way that others have described it. Get whatever ship you want to fly, then cast suspension on several objects within the ship, and use those objects to lift the ship off the ground. Because they're inside the ship, antimagic fields won't affect them; line of effect is blocked. Depending on how heavy your ship is, however, you still might have issues, because directing each suspended object is a move action.

A 20th level character I'm fiddling with is constantly shapechanged into a chronotyryn, and can therefore direct 4 instances of suspension each round. If you can't direct every instance at once, you run into the issue that each direction of them might simply fail. However, if I do 4 instances in each end of the ship, then arguably those 4 wouldn't be lifting the entire weight of the ship, giving me enough time to raise the other 4 in the other end of the ship during the next round. Because suspension has a 1d4 days +1 day/level duration, I only need to recast them every other time I cast Mordenkainen's Capable Caravel (Stormwrack spell). Because I'm casting them at CL 48, that means an extended capable caravel lasts 48 days, and the suspension rods last 96+1d4 days, and each rod can support up to 24 tons. Caravels weigh up to 150 tons. Edit: oh, and to make it a ghost ship of sorts, I'll be casting it on the ethereal plane. Yay ethereal flying pirate ships! I'd arguably only need 1 casting of suspension because the ethereal plane doesn't have gravity, but 8 castings covers me if for some reason this isn't true, or I want to use planar navigation (Stormwrack spell) to bring my ship to a plane with gravity. Note that because this character has shapechange constantly active, traveling between the material and ethereal planes is as simple as briefly changing forms to a creature that can do this as a supernatural ability.

Obviously my exact implementation for that character doesn't come online at low levels, but because suspension is only a 4th level spell, lasts a long time, and supports a generous amount of weight, I'm sure you could get by with only 2 castings on a smaller boat, or other vehicle, so you could direct it up or down all by yourself. If you're not going to be using a sailing ship of some kind as a vehicle, remember that you need a way to generate thrust, because suspension can only move you up or down. Many methods have already been posted, so depending on the vehicle you pick, which one is most suitable might vary.

[Gavinfoxx]

I looked at some of the other stuff in my list, and decided I actually like the Dragonfly Longship fairly well.

Sure, it's expensive, like the other 'this is a single wondrous item' versions, like the Eberron ship or the Shining South ship.

Here's the costs of the three ships:

House Lyrandar Airship: 92K (Eberron) 20 mph, poor maneuverability, requires a crew of 15. Also requires Bind Elemental, not Craft Wondrous Item

Halruaan Skyship: 400K (Faerun) 'like a sailing vessel', so at the mercy of the wind; requires a full sailing ship crew (which is a good amount!)

Dragonfly Longship: 175K (not setting specific), 30 mph (60 speed, average). Also has a very useful weapon, and apparently requires a smaller crew than the other two... AND IT FLIES WITH WINGS.

[Garan]

What about Permanency (allowed for this at the DM's discretion). Just get a spell powerful enough to lift it, then permanency that spell. It will be expensive XP wise, and also extremely vulnerable to Anti-magic. BUT has the bonus of having no upkeep.

[Gavinfoxx]

Permanency would be vulnerable to anti magic AND dispel magic.

You don't generally want your airship to be vulnerable to a simple dispelling effect. That's bad. You want it to be a wondrous item at least. Maybe mundanely lighter than air (like the Eberron ones) too. Maybe also a Construct. With Wings that can produce lift. Maybe have multiple spells cast on it to produce lift too... etc. etc. Redundancies and safeguards, you know?

Permanency REALLY sucks for mission-critical applications....

Anyway, several of the options I mentioned require little to no upkeep at all....

[Garan]

Well, I never said it was the perfect idea.
Also, this doesn't mean Featherfall spells and backup levitate/Tenser's floating disk spells won't be on board.

[Palanan]

A while ago I tried plowing through one of the Forgotten Realms novels, and made it far enough to read a description of how the Halruuan skyships operated. As I recall, the essence was "not very well."

From what I remember, they didn't really soar through the sky, only levitated a short ways above the water--and as you mention, they were generally at the mercy of the wind, and extremely clumsy to maneuver. They were essentially prestige vessels, symbols of national pride, rather than being effective at anything besides floating.

[Jack_Simth]

I want a big flying ship.
Bonus points for:
Not relying on lighter than air gasses.
Being construct-able at lower levels.
Being cheap.
Having good combat capability.

Define cheap? The Stronghold Builder's Guide (3.0, granted) can get you a single stronghold space that flies (barely) for 20,000 gp. Made out of either wood or stone. Requires Reverse Gravity and a caster level of 17, so you may have some trouble doing it yourself. For twice that, you can have one stronghold space that flies at 10 miles/hour.

[Hirax]

Solutions involving permanency aren't all that bad, so long as they're confined to the inside of the ship. Nothing would be able to shut them off from outside the ship, and if your enemy is capable of getting inside the ship to shut them off then you've probably got bigger things to worry about anyway. This is why I love Mordenkainen's Capable Caravel - go ahead and blow up my ship, I'll just make another. :smallbiggrin:

[Gavinfoxx]

I don't really like the idea of one errant dispel magic type effect being all that is between me and 100% certainty of losing the investment and the lives of everyone onboard who can't fly for themselves... Flying is FREAKING DANGEROUS. And expensive. That's why there are soooo many rules and safeguards for aircraft, in the real world, you know?

And wow, I just realized how SIMPLE the Eberron ships are.

You take a special kind of wood. You alchemically treat it so it is buoyant in air. You then build a ship which happens to have a ring around it. Instead of then enchanting the ship or making it a construct or whatever, ALL you are doing is binding an elemental to give (vectored...) thrust (not lift -- THRUST), so you don't have to use sails. I think that the Eberron ships could technically not actually require any magic at all. They could be sailing ships that just require mundane crafting and alchemy, no elemental binding... you would just use ballast and stuff, or maybe funky 3D sails, to go up and down...

[Palanan]

Originally Posted by Jack_Simth
Define cheap?

I think this is the real issue. Without an exact value, there's no way to know if these various concepts are within budget or not.

Also, unless I missed it, I don't think the OP has really defined what he wants this vessel for. Is this intended to be a high-altitude home base, used as a refuge and retreat between adventuring sorties? Is this meant to be a fighting platform, making strafing runs down in the thick of it? Is he looking for strategic dominance over the landscape, or just a stylin' ride between dungeons?

A lot of the suggestions made so far have been very elaborate, and very inventive; but generally not very cheap. The floating colossal +1 Animated Tower Shield, by itself, might put this slightly over budget. If we could get an idea of the approximate cost ceiling and the intended mission, that would go a long way toward resolving the design.


Originally Posted by Gavinfoxx
I think that the Eberron ships could technically not actually require any magic at all. They could be sailing ships that just require mundane crafting and alchemy, no elemental binding... you would just use ballast and stuff, or maybe funky 3D sails, to go up and down...

The Eberron skyships do have a certain elegant simplicity to them, apart from the elemental binding.

But the trouble with a purely sail-powered skyship is that you are, essentially, flying a kite without a string. Even if you can stay aloft without effort, you'll still need some form of thrust if you want to do anything other than bob along with the prevailing winds.

[MukkTB]

In that case Gavinfoxx I need to look into Eberron ships.

Edit - I want basic combat capability. I expect to spend a lot of time on the ground in dungeons or cities. I don't need to dominate the landscape. I want whats basically an analog for a sailing ship. Floating fortress isn't required. Battleship isn't required. I'm really excited by this alchemical lighter than air wood. I could just build a ship out of it if it isn't prohibitively expensive.

[Gavinfoxx]

The problem is, there aren't any prices listed for *just the mundane work*.

Sure, you could do stuff to not have to actually 'do' the mundane work.

Fabricate, some various spells to act as Craft Alchemy buffs, buying the raw alchemical materials, buying the raw type of wood needed for the alchemy-ing, the Unseen Crafter spell, and Wood Shape would be most everything you likely need. You dont even have to make them LOOK like the Eberron ships -- all you are doing is creating a hull that is made of wood and happens to be lighter than air. You can then add other things -- like a Decanter of Endless Water, or some Undead or Construct winged beasts to pull it, or just normal winged creatures, or whatever -- to pull it or provide thrust or whatever. You could even go out questing for the particular kind of wood and the particular alchemical ingredients if you want.

The thing is, doing all of that might not actually be CHEAPER than just making a hollow Wyvern-with-extra-hit-dice-and-Size Effigy, or making a repeating trap of Suspension. ESPECIALLY if you use the various options from here: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7274 to make it... Effigies are FREAKING CHEAP, if you do it right... and you can do these things with them: http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19861634/Domo_Arigato_Mr._Roboto.


I found some of the writeup for the basic core of my hollow Wyvern Effigy airship thingy...

Custom Enlarging Template: Size increases by 1 category, strength increases by 2, dex decreases by 2, HD is unchanged
Half dragon (Copper, perhaps?) NA +4 str +8
Woodling +7 NA
Effigy +4 str -2 dex, +2 NA
Notes: Wyvern str 19 dex 12, large, 7 hd

Stats after all of this:

Weirdly awesome Effigy Wyvern Airship
7d10+40 (84 HP)
20 ft Move, fly 60 ft poor
Huge, Mindless Construct
DR 5/Adamantine
str 33, dex 8
19 points of natural armor
Sting 1d8, bite 3d8, 2 wings 2d6, 2 talons 2d6 (plus strength for these, of course)

BASE PRICE
Huge Body: 10,000
7 Hit Die: 14,000
Blueshine/Everbright ad-hoc anti-rust and anti acid treatment cost: 2,000
Cost of making it an airship and making controls: Assumed part of cost of body
Total: 26000

Cost reducers:
Make it yourself: *.5
Apprentice Craftsman * .9
Extraordinary Artisan: * .75

Total cost to make yourself, of this aspect: 8775 gp

Embedded Item (in workings):
Collar of Perpetual Attendance Base price 2000
Speaking Sentient Item: 4000
Lesser Powers Ad-Hoc removed, instead it can use the construct's senses and pilot the construct directly, or direct it to move using it's own capabilities, and also keeps the interior clean and tidy, and may even be able to perform minor repairs

Base Price: 6000
Cost reducers:
Make it yourself: *.5
Apprentice Craftsman * .9
Extraordinary Artisan: * .75

Total cost to make yourself, of this aspect: 2025

Suspension VTOL and Emergency Landing Repeating 'Trap' system (if the construct is rendered inert, this should enable the airship to land safely. it also allows it to hover and take off and land vertically)
500 gp x spell level 4 x Caster Level 7 = 14000
cost given is NOT sale price, it is making it yourself price, so no .5 for making it yourself
Apprentice Craftsman * .9
Extraordinary Artisan: * .75

Total cost to make yourself, of this aspect: 9450

Total cost for an Artificer with a few relevant feats to make a kickass Huge Wyvern airship that can fight and has some awesome features: 8775+2025+9450 = 20250
Which is just a little bit above buying a +3 weapon on the open market... not making one yourself with those feats, mind you... but still...