[PF]: Gloves of Still Spell

[rgd20]

I was wondering what you lot think would be a ballpark cost for creating an effective rod of still spell (minor), but in the gloves slot

The purpose is to allow casting when grappled/ tied up without the feat, but with the added advantage that a held metamagic rod may also be used to further modify the spell cast.

The base is obviously the normal metamagic rods. so, 3,000 gp.

it's slotted (hands), but it allows something that otherwise could not happen.
so I'm thinking that it would cost a lot more than 3,000 gp

off the top of my head I can't think of any other reference items with which to compare it. Any ideas?


Mittens of Motionless Magery

Three times per day these tasteless wollen mittens allow the wearer to cast a spell of level 3 or lower as if they had the still spell Feat. In addition any metamagic rod held by the weilder may further modify the spell. (Although the action of the gloves acts to raise the spell level by 1, so this would not allow a character with a rod of extend (lesser) to cast an extended, still Haste spell using the two items)

[Keneth]

If it works as a metamagic rod then it must include this clause "A caster may only use one metamagic rod on any given spell." In this case I would square the base multiplier, bringing it up to 9,000 gp. Being able to use it with another rod would have to further increase the price by at least another factor of 2.

[Mystify]

actually, it would be cheaper on a body slot. With an item you hold, it doesn't take up a slot, and can be echanged freely. Tying an item to a slot costs 1/2 as much, 3/4 as much if its not aligned. I would buy that still spell is aligned to a hand slot, so it costing 1,500 is not unreasonable.
Letting it stack with other rods is quite powerful though. That would increase the price significantly, but I am hesitant to postulate a price on that.

[Keneth]

While generally true that items that don't take up a slot cost more, in this case, it occupying a slot is by far more beneficial since it frees up your hands, plus most items occupying a slot can often be just as easily swapped (unless you're dropping stuff on the floor as a free action). I would argue it should cost more as it's emulating a completely different item type, if anything it should cost no less that the original item or there would be chaos in the magic item crafters community. :smallamused:

[Mystify]

While generally true that items that don't take up a slot cost more, in this case, it occupying a slot is by far more beneficial since it frees up your hands, plus most items occupying a slot can often be just as easily swapped (unless you're dropping stuff on the floor as a free action). I would argue it should cost more as it's emulating a completely different item type, if anything it should cost no less that the original item or there would be chaos in the magic item crafters community. :smallamused:

So you are saying its just as easy to take off and put on a pair of gloves as it is to switch rods? :smallconfused:You can't quick draw gloves, and your hands would have to be free already. I would also say that trying to switch gloves would certainly provoke an AoO, whilst drawing and stowing rods would not. And in most groups I play in, dropping items is a normal part of combat. You are fighting for your life, keeping your equipment tidy is not high on your list of priorities, unless you have reason to think you won't have time to pick it up.
Esp with a limited use/day item. Its not doing anything for you most of the time, so having it tying up an item slot for no other benefit is a real drawback. You can't just have the still rod on your belt for the occasion when you need it, where you draw it, and then use it as needed. Its just there, consuming your item slot.
If you put an ioun stone effect on a body slot, it would cost less. Ioun stones have a huge markup for the privelge of floating around your head and not competing with other magic items. They make the items in the form that they do because it is what makes the most sense for the purpose. A metamagic rod is a rod because it is an occasional use item that you are expected to swap out frequently.

Here is an example:
ring of silent spells
2k
It casts silence once per day, which alone should cost 2160, and gives you the effects of a metamagic rod of silence on top of that, which normally costs 3000. There is a reduction in price due to having to use all of the metamagic in the duration of the silence spell, but it is still a metamagic rod effect on an item, which other abilties, that costs far less than a metamagic rod. And it doesn't have a "doesn't stack with rods" clause either.

[Keneth]

But then again, nothing's stopping you from wearing two pairs of gloves and just taking one off when you don't need it or having them around the belt and equipping them as a move action. Of course I wasn't necessarily referring to gloves. Plus I've yet to meet a full spellcaster who took quickdraw in order to draw rods. Dropping stuff on the floor is also a double-edged sword (even if it's a single edged sword), obviously you don't tackle epic encounters of a regular basis, because I do, and we've been forced to escape often enough to learn that dropping stuff all around the battlefield isn't always a grand idea.

And if they make items in the form that makes the most sense, then rods don't make any sense at all, if you want to use a rod, you need to put away your primary weapon first (wizards may not have one but most of the other spellcasters do), it weights a ton so half the time you're gonna be carrying it around in the backpack if you dumped strength, and it's easy for someone to dispose you of it. If they wanted it to make sense, they would have made metamagic mints. :smallbiggrin:

I'm sorry, but I can't agree with your assessment

[jindra34]

But then again, nothing's stopping you from wearing two pairs of gloves and just taking one off when you don't need it or having them around the belt and equipping them as a move action. Of course I wasn't necessarily referring to gloves. Plus I've yet to meet a full spellcaster who took quickdraw in order to draw rods. Dropping stuff on the floor is also a double-edged sword (even if it's a single edged sword), obviously you don't tackle epic encounters of a regular basis, because I do, and we've been forced to escape often enough to learn that dropping stuff all around the battlefield isn't always a grand idea.

And if they make items in the form that makes the most sense, then rods don't make any sense at all, if you want to use a rod, you need to put away your primary weapon first (wizards may not have one but most of the other spellcasters do), it weights a ton so half the time you're gonna be carrying it around in the backpack if you dumped strength, and it's easy for someone to dispose you of it. If they wanted it to make sense, they would have made metamagic mints. :smallbiggrin:

I'm sorry, but I can't agree with your assessment

Now you have me wanting to price out single use Metamagic rod equivalents prices

[Mystify]

But then again, nothing's stopping you from wearing two pairs of gloves and just taking one off when you don't need it or having them around the belt and equipping them as a move action. Of course I wasn't necessarily referring to gloves. Plus I've yet to meet a full spellcaster who took quickdraw in order to draw rods. Dropping stuff on the floor is also a double-edged sword (even if it's a single edged sword), obviously you don't tackle epic encounters of a regular basis, because I do, and we've been forced to escape often enough to learn that dropping stuff all around the battlefield isn't always a grand idea.

Tie a string to your item and your belt. You drop it, and its hanging form your belt. Can you point me to an actual rule about the time it takes to put on clothing? I'm looking and I'm not seeing it. And its quite easy for the DM to say that its the bottom gloves that you are actually wearing, and so those are the effects you get.


And if they make items in the form that makes the most sense, then rods don't make any sense at all, if you want to use a rod, you need to put away your primary weapon first (wizards may not have one but most of the other spellcasters do), it weights a ton so half the time you're gonna be carrying it around in the backpack if you dumped strength, and it's easy for someone to dispose you of it. If they wanted it to make sense, they would have made metamagic mints. :smallbiggrin:

I'm sorry, but I can't agree with your assessment

I never got rods in the first place. Except for the rods that are really maces, it doesn't seem to be a very useful form for a magic item to be, there is no coherence to their effects, and I can't think of any stereotypes about spellcasters and rods.

But there are items that show a metamagic effect does not based to be constrained to a rod, and can be significantly cheaper in that form.

[ericgrau]

Still spell is the one rod that's normally missing, probably specifically for movement confusion like grappling.

By normal pricing it'd probably be 3,000 gp, but I don't think this is normal for that reason. I think we need to toss the guidelines here and figure out how useful it is.

Hmm, you still need to make a big concentration check and there are alternatives like spells that don't have somatic components. Especially teleportations. Even when combining with other rods outside a grapple the need to still spell in such a situation is extremely rare. I wouldn't increase the price tremendously. Maybe +50% or +100%.

[Myou]

Still spell is the one rod that's normally missing, probably specifically for movement confusion like grappling.

By normal pricing it'd probably be 3,000 gp, but I don't think this is normal for that reason. I think we need to toss the guidelines here and figure out how useful it is.

Hmm, you still need to make a big concentration check and there are alternatives like spells that don't have somatic components. Especially teleportations. Even when combining with other rods outside a grapple the need to still spell in such a situation is extremely rare. I wouldn't increase the price tremendously. Maybe +50% or +100%.

I agree with your assessment. After all, still spells aren't actually any more powerful, it's not like mixing maximize and empower.