Can someone please explain to me the difference between Arcane and Divine Magic?

[Chaotic Queen]

Please don't call me an idiot, I've never played the game. From what I've heard, they're equally powerful, but :vaarsuvius: has called Divine Magic inferior every chance she gets. Please help me understand this comic more so I can enjoy better than I already do!

[Maquise]

V is being a jerk.
Arcane Magic is the kind wizards, sorcerers and such use. It comes from impartial forces, and comes from either study or natural talent. Divine magic comes from gods (usually) and is used by clerics, druids, and such. You need to be in good standing with the source of divine magic to use it, but armor does not hinder it, unlike arcane magic.

I hope that clears it up a little.

[Chess Tyrant]

Divine spellcasters channel power directly from their deity to cast spells - effectively, it's the magic of their god instead of their own magic, which is why V disdains it. Arcane magic belongs entirely to the caster.

Divine magic includes healing spells, while arcane magic is more destructive.

[Gnoman]

Arcane and Divine operate under fundamentally different principles. Divine magic is granted to the followers of a deity in return for serving said deity's interests in the mortal realm. The more faithful and successful a particular follower is (i.e. the higher their character level) the more powerful the magic granted to them is. Failure to serve their deity or transgressing against that deity's codes of conduct can result in loss of this divine favor.

Arcane magic is manipulation of fundamental forces of the universe through your own capabilities. Either the power is gained through extensive study (Wizards like Vaarsuvius or Eugene) or through an innate power (Sorcerers like Xykon or Samantha.) In either case, the power comes from an internal rather than an external source.

It is common in D&D universes for Arcane users to look on Divine users with disdain because they're simply "borrowing" magic rather than possessing magic, and thus aren't worthy of real respect. As far as level of power goes, the sources are roughly equal.

[Seonor]

What the others said, but note that divine magic can come from other sources then gods. Druids serve "nature" not a specific god and still have divine spells.

[Chaotic Queen]

Ahh, okay! Now I get it! I figured a name like Divine sounded more impressive than Arcane, but I see how it works now.

Now I finally get that running gag where Thor misunderstands Durkon!

Thanks!

[Chaotic Queen]

So does that mean :elan: wields Arcane magic?

[Gift Jeraff]

So does that mean :elan: wields Arcane magic?Yep, bards use arcane magic. Also, paladins and rangers use divine magic.

[Gnoman]

Yes. Bards use a specialized form of Arcane magic (However, they do have some normally Divine-only spells such as healing.) Likewise, Paladins and Rangers use specialized Divine magic. In all cases they use their own spell lists (every spell in the game is on one or more lists. You can only use spells on the list corresponding to your class) and are much more limited than Clerics or Wizards.

[RndmNumGen]

Correct. Bards (like Elan) draw their power from music & song.

[Absol197]

Correct. Bards (like Elan) draw their power from music & song.

Technically, their power comes from the arts in general, not necessarily music. Dance, acting, and even oratory can be used to fuel bardic abilities!

I've always argued amongst my group that bards should be divine. They channel the power of the Muses - they might not be actual gods in the setting, but they are powerful ideological concepts.

[thepsyker]

Technically, their power comes from the arts in general, not necessarily music. Dance, acting, and even oratory can be used to fuel bardic abilities!

I've always argued amongst my group that bards should be divine. They channel the power of the Muses - they might not be actual gods in the setting, but they are powerful ideological concepts.

1st edition Bards, as agents for the druids, had divine magic. They only changed to Arcane with the second edition when they got rid of the druid connection if memory serves.

[Idhan]

As Seonor said, divine magic doesn't necessarily depend on devotion to a deity. Somewhat long-winded breakdown within the spoiler.

Now, as a matter of roleplaying, most D&D settings encourage the view that most characters are somewhat religious. Thus "patron deity" is listed on most D&D character sheets, not just divine spellcasters', or just clerics'. D&D generally assumes that barbarians, rogues, psychic warriors, and sorcerers will all have patron deities, not just clerics and paladins.

However, as a matter of mechanics, only clerics have a connection to a deity. Even there, the PHB vaguely notes that some clerics don't follow a deity (Eberron makes this a bit more explicit by developing non-theistic (or at least non-theocentric) religions, such as the Silver Flame, Blood of Vol, Path of Light, etc.). Still, deities matter to clerics: a cleric of Pelor can have some domains (specialty spell-lists) like Sun and Healing, but can't get War or Knowledge.

Other divine spellcasters do not that mechanical connection to deities. Rangers don't. Paladins don't. Druids don't. This is not to say that rangers, paladins, or druids don't worship any gods -- most likely, they do (in fact, I'd go so far as to say that, as a matter of roleplaying, the typical paladin is more pious than the typical rogue, although that's not compulsory). It's just that this is a matter of roleplaying, not mechanics.

Outside of core, the favored soul of Complete Divine is the only divine spellcaster I can think of that makes having a patron deity compulsory. They are even more mechanically linked to deities than clerics (even though the only thing that separates one deity's favored soul from another's is favored weapon and eventual wings). Complete Divine explicitly notes that favored souls cannot be followers of non-theistic faiths like clerics.

[Once&FutureKing]

People have explained most of it. The one correction I'd make is that Arcane Magic is much, much more powerful. People around here like to invoke remarks from characters like Xykon ("everything balances out"), but in reality that is untrue (assuming that's even what Xykon meant). Some classes suck, and some classes (like wizards) are at the top of the food chain.

[baf]

What it really comes down to is this: Originally, D&D had two spellcasting classes. There were wizardly types (or magic-users), and there were priestly types (or clerics). It didn't take long for Gygax et al to add more types of spellcaster with their own distinct spell lists, but because the original D&D was architected around two and only two types of magic, everyone involved continued to think of every spellcasting class as essentially either a kind of wizard or a kind of priest.

[deworde]

Interesting, so where do Warlocks fit into this?

[RMS Oceanic]

Interesting, so where do Warlocks fit into this?

If I recall Complete Arcane correctly, they would be pseudo-sorcerors, in that their power comes from being descendants of people who made some sort of deal with a Planar Entity, if not being one of those people themselves.

[The Succubus]

Interesting, so where do Warlocks fit into this?

They are an eldritch part of this complete breakfast. :smallwink:

[Timeless Error]

People have explained most of it. The one correction I'd make is that Arcane Magic is much, much more powerful. People around here like to invoke remarks from characters like Xykon ("everything balances out"), but in reality that is untrue (assuming that's even what Xykon meant). Some classes suck, and some classes (like wizards) are at the top of the food chain.

Without getting into a tier system argument, I would say that Clerics and Druids are (almost) the equal of Wizards in power (Sorcerers are inferior to all three), and that the power gap between those classes isn't as wide as you claim it is. Unless you meant, "Arcane magic is much, much more powerful than non-magical or slightly-magical classes."

[Once&FutureKing]

When you're on level 13 or below, sure, Clerics are comparable to Wizards, and Druids are probably functionally superior to both. And a level 7 fighter is probably at least as useful as a level 7 Mage (in game). However once you get up to higher levels, Wizards are totally broken, while a fighter is still just a fighter, and Druids and Clerics (while powerful), just can't compete to the crazy magic flying around, especially once you're at level 20.

I mean, if the Wizard is horribly unoptimized and picks terrible spells, sure... but barring that...

[Morthis]

When you're on level 13 or below, sure, Clerics are comparable to Wizards, and Druids are probably functionally superior to both. And a level 7 fighter is probably at least as useful as a level 7 Mage (in game). However once you get up to higher levels, Wizards are totally broken, while a fighter is still just a fighter, and Druids and Clerics (while powerful), just can't compete to the crazy magic flying around, especially once you're at level 20.

I mean, if the Wizard is horribly unoptimized and picks terrible spells, sure... but barring that...

I think in just core the druid is generally considered the most powerful of the bunch.

[Raimun]

One important thing to remember is that Wizards (and other Arcance classes) never actually know all spells from their spell list. A spell list contains all the spells a caster could ever learn.

Instead they have a limit, fixed or not . For example, Xykon knows exactly 43 spells across 10 spell levels and can't learn more. The basic rule set contains a lot more Sorc/Wiz-spells than that and a Wizard like V can learn them all (and more)... or could, if he had access to all spell scrolls, ever and a lot of time and money.

However, the Cleric-spell list has about the same number of spells and Clerics know every Clerical spell, ever (barring a few opposite Alignment spells). That's in addition to many "hidden" benefits, like more spells per day.

Basically, V is way too arrogant when s/he dismisses Divine full-casters like Clerics and Druids... unless they imagine they are healbots.

If I remember correctly, V once lost to a Druid who, in turn, lost to a certain Cleric. :smalltongue:

[thepsyker]

One important thing to remember is that Wizards (and other Arcance classes) never actually know all spells from their spell list. A spell list contains all the spells a caster could ever learn.

Instead they have a limit, fixed or not . For example, Xykon knows exactly 43 spells across 10 spell levels and can't learn more. The basic rule set contains a lot more Sorc/Wiz-spells than that and a Wizard like V can learn them all (and more)... or could, if he had access to all spell scrolls, ever and a lot of time and money.

However, the Cleric-spell list has about the same number of spells and Clerics know every Clerical spell, ever (barring a few opposite Alignment spells). That's in addition to many "hidden" benefits, like more spells per day.

Basically, V is way too arrogant when s/he dismisses Divine full-casters like Clerics and Druids... unless they imagine they are healbots.

If I remember correctly, V once lost to a Druid who, in turn, lost to a certain Cleric. :smalltongue:Not to mention most divine casters could beat an arcane caster up in a fist fight.:smallwink:

[CharityB]

Now I finally get that running gag where Thor misunderstands Durkon!

Yeah! Something like that pretty much doesnt happen in the game though (it wouldn't be fair!), but in a "real world" it's certainly possible that your deity simply is too distracted or unintelligent to actually supply you the correct spells that you asked him/her for.


So does that mean wields Arcane magic?

And technically, Belkar is a divine spellcaster like Durkon, but his relevant scores are so low that he effectively cannot actually use magic outside of special circumstances (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0058.html).

[AlaskaOOTSFan]

Please don't call me an idiot

These were actually very good Q's....and if other posters can tell more how it is in 3/3.5ed, I can add another distinction from 2ed, Planescape.

Divine Magic and Arcane magic are affected differently depending which plane you were in. If I remember right, the further away from the plane of your diety, the less effective your diving magic was. I know arcance magic was affected my attributes of the plane itself, but I don't remember if divine magic is the same.

[Raimun]

Not to mention most divine casters could beat an arcane caster up in a fist fight.:smallwink:

Hehheh, bingo.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Not to mention most divine casters could beat an arcane caster up in a fist fight.:smallwink:

Barring Gishes of course. :smalltongue:

On the power of Divine vs. Arcane, your trying to compare Anthrax and Atomic Bombs. Both are extremly powerful agents of war but vastly different in how they do it. So saying a Divine caster will win in a fist fight against an Arcane does not diminish the fact the Arcane can have a plethora of highly specialized spells for specific situations. The sum of it, they are both powerful but in different ways.

[Doug Lampert]

People have explained most of it. The one correction I'd make is that Arcane Magic is much, much more powerful. People around here like to invoke remarks from characters like Xykon ("everything balances out"), but in reality that is untrue (assuming that's even what Xykon meant). Some classes suck, and some classes (like wizards) are at the top of the food chain.

Miracle is just plain better than wish, fewer limits, can emulate higher level spells, and best of all no XP cost when used to emulate another spell unless that spell has an XP cost. Gate is on both cleric and wizard lists. Shapechange is a druid spell.

If you don't think a high level cleric can compete then you're doing it wrong.

DougL

[Red XIV]

Basically, V is way too arrogant when s/he dismisses Divine full-casters like Clerics and Druids... unless they imagine they are healbots.
Remember, that was Darth V who made the crack about divine spells not being "real magic" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0650.html). V's learned a little humility since then, and been clued into the fact that ultimate arcane might isn't everything.


Yeah! Something like that pretty much doesnt happen in the game though
Not unless your DM is a jerk, anyway.

[Murray]

Barring Gishes of course. :smalltongue:

On the power of Divine vs. Arcane, your trying to compare Anthrax and Atomic Bombs ... The sum of it, they are both powerful but in different ways.
I like your description, think it's good way of describing the difference in the nature of the magic.



I've always argued amongst my group that bards should be divine. They channel the power of the Muses - they might not be actual gods in the setting, but they are powerful ideological concepts.

I could see separate Arcane and Divine Bards classes being feasible. The former toils endlessly and obsessively for their craft, the latter finds inspiration by acquiring their skills from Divine forces. Typically at a crossroads at midnight (www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgcWfVvT_UM&feature=youtu.be#t=33s). :smallwink:

[MesiDoomstalker]

I like your description, think it's good way of describing the difference in the nature of the magic.


Thanks! I thought it up on the spot.

[Diadem]

Without getting into a tier system argument, I would say that Clerics and Druids are (almost) the equal of Wizards in power (Sorcerers are inferior to all three)
Why? Sorcerors get the same spells as wizards, at the same level. They know fewer spells total, but can cast more per day, and do not have to prepare them. Why would they be weaker?

If anyting I'd say they are much stronger. Not having to prepare spells is a huge benefit. Though it depends on the setting. If you know what you are going to do, it's not a huge drawback to have to prepare spells. But in unexpected situations, it is.

[Belril Duskwalk]

Why? Sorcerors get the same spells as wizards, at the same level. They know fewer spells total, but can cast more per day, and do not have to prepare them. Why would they be weaker?

If anyting I'd say they are much stronger. Not having to prepare spells is a huge benefit. Though it depends on the setting. If you know what you are going to do, it's not a huge drawback to have to prepare spells. But in unexpected situations, it is.

For one, Sorcerers get the same spells as wizards, but they do so a level later. For another, Wizards may need to prepare in advance, but with some Optimization-Fu they can get around the need to prepare parts of their list. For yet another, there's quite a few spells on the Wizard/Sorcerer list that are a Swiss-army knife. Wizards can survive not having the best tool by having a tool that's not quite as good, but which does the job well enough to get by. Given preparation time they become better yet as they can prepare the ideal spell and really mop the floor.

[Morthis]

Why? Sorcerors get the same spells as wizards, at the same level. They know fewer spells total, but can cast more per day, and do not have to prepare them. Why would they be weaker?

If anyting I'd say they are much stronger. Not having to prepare spells is a huge benefit. Though it depends on the setting. If you know what you are going to do, it's not a huge drawback to have to prepare spells. But in unexpected situations, it is.

Because they just don't know enough spells, get no free feats and cant use quicken in core.

[Doug Lampert]

Why? Sorcerors get the same spells as wizards, at the same level. They know fewer spells total, but can cast more per day, and do not have to prepare them. Why would they be weaker?

If anyting I'd say they are much stronger. Not having to prepare spells is a huge benefit. Though it depends on the setting. If you know what you are going to do, it's not a huge drawback to have to prepare spells. But in unexpected situations, it is.

No, sorcerers are a level behind, they get level 2 spells at level 4 while wizards get them at level 3, and so on.

Assuming moderate casting abilities:
At level 4 the sorcerer has four level two slots and knows ONE level 2 spell, tell me again about how being able to select spells on the fly is an advantage compared to preparation? At level 4 the wizard who's done NOTHING to learn extra spells and hasn't bothered to specialize has 3 spells and knows four. And the wizard has SCRIBE SCROLL for free, so he doesn't prepare anything but the sorts of generally applicable spells a sorcerer would know, he scribes the obscure ones.

At level 5 the sorcerer goes up to five level two slots and knows two level 2 spells, what astonishing flexibility! Meanwhile the wizard gets a bonus feat, and learns his first two level 3 spells which he happens to have two slots for. And he starts crafting wands, in cooperation with the cleric so the party is never again short on healing.

If you specialize the wizard he's hardly even behind in slots. Focused specialist and he's not behind at all.

At higher level the wizard can leave some low level slots open, or get the ability to cast any spell in his spellbook with a bit of effort, or he can use Contact other Plane and play 20 questions to KNOW what spell to prepare, or he can just teleport away and prepare the correct spells.

Also, PEARLS OF POWER, the wizard prepares greater magic weapon once and the whole party gets the full benefit, wasting only one slot, lets see a sorcerer do that.

At any but the very lowest levels of optimization wizards are simply better, wizards of the coast grossely overrated the value of having spontaneous casting when designing the sorcerer.

Edited to add: And throw in that Int is a better ability than charisma unless you're abusing diplomacy rules as written, and that sorcerers don't get many charisma skills in any case.

[Murray]

For yet another, there's quite a few spells on the Wizard/Sorcerer list that are a Swiss-army knife. Wizards can survive not having the best tool by having a tool that's not quite as good, but which does the job well enough to get by. Given preparation time they become better yet as they can prepare the ideal spell and really mop the floor.

Depending on your build and playing style, Wizards with access to the Signature Spell feat can be even more versatile, preparing specialized spells and being able to overwrite most or all with a general-use, swiss-army knife spell when the situation calls for it. I found it amusing when I got to the point that my Wizard never actually prepared the spell he used most in combat.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Depending on your build and playing style, Wizards with access to the Signature Spell feat can be even more versatile, preparing specialized spells and being able to overwrite most or all with a general-use, swiss-army knife spell when the situation calls for it. I found it amusing when I got to the point that my Wizard never actually prepared the spell he used most in combat.

One Killer Gnome tatic is to use Signature Spell on Silent Image and a combination of race sub levels, PrCs, feats, you can transform any spell of any level into any Evocation or any Conjuration spell that is a valid choice of their shadow variants up to and including 9ths, with varying reality from as low as 40% to as high as 120% real. Not to mention you can apply metamagics to such spells almost no cost. In effect, you could prepare any spell that couldn't be replicated by Shadow line and replace them at a moments notice as you see fit. Its almost the height of versability.

[Idhan]

As for the mechanical differences between arcane and divine magic, well, you could take a look at the rules for arcane (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/arcaneSpells.html) and divine (http://www.systemreferencedocuments.org/resources/systems/pennpaper/dnd35/soveliorsage/divineSpells.html) magic, but I can't promise an exciting read (unfortunately, a lot of it delves into specific rules for clerics, wizards, druids, etc, rather than leaving that for class pages). To summarize:

Arcane spells are subject to chance of failure in armor. Divine spells are not.
Core, Arcane spells are based on intelligence (wizards) or charisma (bards and sorcerers). Divine spells are based on wisdom. Non-core, it's really all over the place, although intelligence is only a divine spellcasting stat in one case (archivist), and wisdom was never an arcane spellcasting stat throughout the history of 3.5, as far as I know.
Arcane spellcasters must have eight hours of rest before preparing their daily spells. Divine spellcasters don't need that, but they must pray for their spells at a specific time of day (e.g., sunrise). (OotS houserules that divine spellcasters need eight hours of sleep too, which is why Durkon can't help Roy keep watch. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0014.html) (I suppose Elan's spells are regarded as too insignificant for their loss from lack of sleep to be of concern, which is why there must be another reason he'd be unsuitable for taking watch.))

[2xMachina]

For Sorc vs Wiz...

Even Wiz can access spontaneous spells through the feats: Alacritous Cogitation or Uncanny Forethought. A bit more dodgy (read: may require dodging books thrown at you) feat to add on top is Versatile Spellcaster, which makes you 100% spontaneous.

EDIT: There are a few non-core Sorc only spells though. Like wings of cover.

[Once&FutureKing]

Clerics get some awesome spells (like Gate). But they get far less of them, and less of the benefits Wizards have with them, especially regarding feats and specialization. Prestige classes like Archmage also give Wizards far more potential to be downright abusive. For all the talk I saw of "Clerics can cast all spells", they really can't, because alot of the best spells are spread across multiple domains, and they don't get unlimited domains.

It's handy having hit points, but a wizard at level 20, optimized and with prep, will not need them. Once you get to Epic levels it becomes plain unfair, with Wizards able to pull off absurd, ridiculous effects.

[Killer Angel]

Divine spellcasters channel power directly from their deity to cast spells - effectively, it's the magic of their god instead of their own magic, which is why V disdains it. Arcane magic belongs entirely to the caster.

The attitude is precisely that, but it's funny how it falls apart, when you realize that the optimized wizard prepare its tactic asking advices to other beings, including Gods (Contact other plane), or when the most famous abuse (candle and chain gate) requires the use of someone else's magic.
It appears that also wizards don't look too much at the source of real power, after all... :smalltongue:


Prestige classes like Archmage also give Wizards far more potential to be downright abusive.

If you want to be abusive, I would put DMM on par with Incantatrix's tricks.
Or are we discussin Core only?


Once you get to Epic levels it becomes plain unfair, with Wizards able to pull off absurd, ridiculous effects.

Epic casting is absurd as a whole, so I wouldn't consider it at all. Just saying...

[Once&FutureKing]

DMM? Sorry, not down with the lingo these days it seems.

[Killer Angel]

DMM? Sorry, not down with the lingo these days it seems.

Divine Metamagic. It's a feat that let you take the energy from turning or rebuking undead and use it in combo with another metamagic feat to divine spells that you know, without changing the spell slot.
It works wonders with persistent spell, and it's easily abusable with Nightsticks (or other less evident tricks).
It's the basis for staying clerzilla 24h/day.

[Once&FutureKing]

I know what metamagic is, just not what your acronym stood for (though in fairness, don't know what nightsticks are).

And no, I don't really think it's more abusive than some of the stuff you pull off with the archmage prestige class (mastery of shaping anti-magic fields! 30-90 foot range for spells like imprisonment and irresistible dance! Are you kidding me?)

Nor do I think it's more potent cumulatively, because Clerics can't get anywhere near as many good spells in their build as wizards can.

[ti'esar]

For the love of humanity, please tell me that this hasn't turned into an optimization debate thread.

[Once&FutureKing]

{{scrubbed}}

[Killer Angel]

I know what metamagic is, just not what your acronym stood for (though in fairness, don't know what nightsticks are).

Short answer: chep items that give you lots of turning undead slots.


And no, I don't really think it's more abusive than some of the stuff you pull off with the archmage prestige class (mastery of shaping anti-magic fields! 30-90 foot range for spells like imprisonment and irresistible dance! Are you kidding me?)


The Spellguard of Silverymoon is even better... :smallcool:
But that's off topic.


For the love of humanity, please tell me that this hasn't turned into an optimization debate thread.

See it as a sort of "wanna be Vaarsuvius Vs wanna be Durkon, debating on which magic power is the best one".
The correct answer is: they both rule the world, only in different ways,and IMO with arcane at the edge and divine close to it.

edit: if we stay away from the optimization side, in a sort of "OotS PoV", must be said that, as a cleric, you had access to all the available spells, while as a wizard, you had to work around it, so divine got more options.

[Tev]

tl;dr for OP:
as you can see, power of divine vs. power of arcane is up to debate, but if you try to be objective (with little margin for error), you can say they are equally powerful.
As in - tier 1 (druid & cleric & wizard) overshadows basically all other classes
tier 2 (sorcerer and something) is much less versatile but still pretty insane (wizard spells are just broken)
rest of classes (dunno exactly, google) are just plain weaker.

edit: tiers (2nd post): http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=138013

soooo back to mechanical differences between arcane & divine I guess

edit for Emulgator: imo really discussion for another thread

[Emulgator]

But at the basic not-really-optimized level aren't druid & cleric having an edge over the wizard with their armor and shapeshifting? Higher survivality at lower levels seem enough for having less powerful spells available at the end of the road.

[MesiDoomstalker]

But at the basic not-really-optimized level aren't druid & cleric having an edge over the wizard with their armor and shapeshifting? Higher survivality at lower levels seem enough for having less powerful spells available at the end of the road.

At unoptimized levels, everything is considerbly weaker obviously. But all main casters (Druid, Cleric, Wizard, Sorcerer and a few other non-cores) have a major issue. That issue is they are complex classes and have many "dud" spells to pick from. A Cleric on paper seems to more idiot-proof than a Druid (Wildshape is complex and most forms are vastly inferior to 1 or 2 forms at a given level), but most new Cleric's fall into the Heal-bot role.

So short answer, yes and no depending if were talking about unoptimized or falling into every pitfall of the class of which primary caster's have many.

[Raimun]

Clerics, Druids and Wizards are pretty much equally powerful because they can all do almost anything. The winner of a caster match is decided by what spells they happened to prepare. For every possible combination, there is an another combination that can beat it.

It's kind of like a game of rock-paper-sciccors.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Clerics, Druids and Wizards are pretty much equally powerful because they can all do almost anything. The winner of a caster match is decided by what spells they happened to prepare. For every possible combination, there is an another combination that can beat it.

It's kind of like a game of rock-paper-sciccors.

Except evey particpent have dozens, even hundreds of options at a given turn, some of which have direct counters, indirect counters, mitagating counters, etc. They are extremly complex even in Core. Likewise, one class will not automatically trump another and lose to a different.

[Yaminsoul]

To get back a bit to the original question

Also important in the difference, at least in 3.5 dungeon and dragons (the rule set this comic is LOOSELY based on)..., is that Divine Magic, as was indicated by Gnoman early in this thread, comes with a set of obligations and tents from the one giving those power, which means that access to those powers can be taken away if the cleric does not serve the deities interests. That's actually something they took away in the next edition of the game (4.0), I think because it caused some Roleplaying issues (though lets please not turn this into a 4.0 debate). Arcane magic cannot be taken away, and is subject to no such regulations, at least any more then any other mortal gets from the gods, in theory.

However, an additional layer of humor in this comic, is the fact that Thor seems a Chaotic Good God, meaning nice but kind of random, while Durkon is Lawful Good, meaning nice and very law abiding (And yes I know that's very oversimplified. Trying to explain to someone who is not super familiar with the game). In the strict rules behind this particular version of D and D, you can't do that, as you have to within "one step" of your god's alignment (If you want to read more about this, you can go look at the 3.5 srd on alignments (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/description.htm#alignment), but its not that important.)

Now Giant chose to ignores this particular rule, and the difference between the follower and the God actually has been used several times for humor, most directly here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0073.html) but in many other places as well. Its also part of the joke involving why Thor and his minions often misinterpret Durkon's requests, or at least I think so.

[WeLoveFireballs]

Assorted sources of power:

Arcane: Energy that exists for reasons unknown. Can be tapped into by:

Wizards: People that study the laws of magic and use memorized rituals from a spellbook to unlock that power.

Sorcerers: People that are born into bloodlines of power and focus on unlocking what is already in their minds. (great-grandchildren of dragons, daemons, celestials and whatever else has inherent magical power)

Sorcerers can also be people that are affected by outside sources to have power. (think spiderman but enchanted magic spider)

Bards: These people put such emotion into their song that they often unintentionally invoke magic. They then learn how to control this energy and invoke it to enhance performances or protect themselves. The comic doesn't use this but most bard magic is invoked though singing or playing music.

Divine: Depending on preference this is power given to gods through worship which is then divided into parcels and sent down to whoever the gods want to use. But there is more variety in the divine. Divine magic also relies on the source of power not being offended.

Clerics: Priests who gain the god's favor though worship and carry out deeds in his name.

Druids: They will either gain power from a god of the forest or nature or from nature as a whole in some cases.

Rangers: Like druids but focus more on martial an woodland than magic.

Paladins: These are to clerics as rangers are to druids but are held to much higher standards as well as having something similar to a knight's code.