Warmage PrC? (Thread Closed)

[NeoSeraphi]

First of all, I'm not going to play a Rainbow Servant. Seriously.

Now then, I want to play a warmage in an upcoming PbP game, so I'm thinking about what PrC would be appropriate. I want to blast, and that's it. I don't care about my versatility, I really don't.

The DM's rule is, if you take a prestige class, you have to finish it. So no PrC dipping. And I really don't want to lose any caster levels, because my only hope for my damage to stay relevant is to keep getting access to higher level spells (with higher damage caps) so...I'm not sure what I can do. Most spellcasting PrCs have a loss in caster level that would just hurt me to take. The game is going to run from 9th-12th level, so any PrC that loses caster levels after that, I'm okay with.

I already considered prestige bard, but immediately ran away when I saw the 2 lost caster levels, and more importantly, the class-imposed -2 CL on evocation spells.

So, is there a blaster-friendly PrC out there?

Edit: After the topics discussed and the consideration, I decided to focus on divine blasting instead (to avoid energy resistance/immunity).

[Human Paragon 3]

Loremaster? Your lore could be millitary history, like an encyclopedia of famous battles and tactics past. It also fits with the warmage's rote memorization of magic aspect. Loremaster is pretty sweet all around, since it's full casting and lays on bonus feats, skill points, save boosts and the like. Prereqs are easy. Warmage grants most of them. Best of all it's cool and unexpected.

No doubt many here will explain why there's a thousand more powerful choices out there, but there's my two cp.

[Psyren]

How about Frost Mage? You lose no caster levels, and you can focus on cold spells without becoming useless against cold-resistant creatures.

It also helps a little with the versatility problem - I know you don't specifically want that, but you can consider it a perk.

[dextercorvia]

How about the Spell Preparation feat? It does two things for you. First, it opens up one of the best blast spells in the game Hammer of Righteousness (BoED) 3rd level, uncapped force damage, single target, fort save for half (so no evasion to worry about). It requires a sacrifice, but is worth it. Second, it allows you to take levels of Ultimate Magus. Since you only have one casting class, you miss out on a lot of the class features, but you get the bonus metamagic feats, and the CL bumps at 1, 4, 7, and 10.

[NeoSeraphi]

How about Frost Mage? You lose no caster levels, and you can focus on cold spells without becoming useless against cold-resistant creatures.

It also helps a little with the versatility problem - I know you don't specifically want that, but you can consider it a perk.

Well, it requires two useless feats to enter (Snowcasting and Frozen Magic) and the only boost it gives me is the Piercing Cold feat for free, as well as the ability to use that feat to bypass magical resistance to cold. Other than that, I am constantly covered in a fog (thanks to my Natural Armor ability), I get to conjure ice beasts, and I get resistance 10 to cold.

It's...okay, I guess? Isn't there a better option though? I mean, I'll really only be using the 4th level ability of the class, so it hardly seems better than going straight warmage (and keeping two feat slots).



Loremaster?

Just rechecked the spell list. I don't get 7 different divination spells, so I can't meet the prerequisites for Loremaster. Still, it was a cool idea.

[NeoSeraphi]

How about the Spell Preparation feat? It does two things for you. First, it opens up one of the best blast spells in the game Hammer of Righteousness (BoED) 3rd level, uncapped force damage, single target, fort save for half (so no evasion to worry about). It requires a sacrifice, but is worth it. Second, it allows you to take levels of Ultimate Magus. Since you only have one casting class, you miss out on a lot of the class features, but you get the bonus metamagic feats, and the CL bumps at 1, 4, 7, and 10.

That...seems cheesy. And by cheesy, I don't mean broken, I mean a blatant disregard of RAI by using tricks and manipulating RAW. I don't think my DM would like it.

[DeAnno]

Now then, I want to play a warmage in an upcoming PbP game, so I'm thinking about what PrC would be appropriate. I want to blast, and that's it. I don't care about my versatility, I really don't.

If you want to Blast, and if you want to not dip PRCs, I would play Warmage 6/War Mage 5/Warmage +9

"War Mage" is from Age of Mortals and gives you a total of +3 bonus damage per damage die. You want all the Warmage levels since you take the Ecletic Learning ACF from PHBII to get a level-too-high spell of your choice from the Sorc/Wiz list at Warmage 3, 6, 11, and 16. Take whatever you want at 3 and 6, but at Warmage 11 (which is Level 16 total) take Arcane Spellsurge as an 8th level spell.

The last 4 levels of Warmage from 17-20 are mostly filler (you get Sudden Widen), but getting into anything else probably requires feats you want to spend on metamagic/metamagic reducers. If you have a martial weapon proficiency somehow (like from being a Kobold) you could take an Abjuration at 3 and/or 6 and take the last 4 levels in Abjurant Champion instead.

[Psyren]

Arcane Preparation could get you into MotAO as well. Not really a "blasting PrC" other than the free metamagic though...

Hey, how about Wild Mage (+Practiced Spellcaster)? Your blasty spells end up at least as good, and up to +3 CL better than normal. And when you're up against an enemy or situation where blasting isn't going too well, just throw caution to the wind and start spamming Reckless Dweomer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rods.htm#wonder)

[gbprime]

Frost Mage is good.

War Mage (Dragonlance: Age of Mortals) is great for just being a cannon as well. In 5 levels, it gets +3 per die to all damaging spells and 2 bonus metamagic feats. By 11th level, you're effectively Empowering every spell for free... unless you chose to also Empower them!

Force Missile Mage (Dragon Magazine Compendium) is a decent one as well. it loses a caster level, but ups the maximum missiles of Magic Missile to 7.

Combine them both, and your 1st level spell slots could be doing 7d4+28+(warmage edge)

[dextercorvia]

Hey, how about Wild Mage (+Practiced Spellcaster)? Your blasty spells end up at least as good, and up to +3 CL better than normal. And when you're up against an enemy or situation where blasting isn't going too well, just throw caution to the wind and start spamming Reckless Dweomer (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rods.htm#wonder)

I almost suggested this, but it isn't a great class to take all ten levels of, and I thought it would be too cheesy for him. :smalltongue:

[NeoSeraphi]

If you want to Blast, and if you want to not dip PRCs, I would play Warmage 6/War Mage 5/Warmage +9

"War Mage" is from Age of Mortals and gives you a total of +3 bonus damage per damage die. You want all the Warmage levels since you take the Ecletic Learning ACF from PHBII to get a level-too-high spell of your choice from the Sorc/Wiz list at Warmage 3, 6, 11, and 16. Take whatever you want at 3 and 6, but at Warmage 11 (which is Level 16 total) take Arcane Spellsurge as an 8th level spell.

The last 4 levels of Warmage from 17-20 are mostly filler (you get Sudden Widen), but getting into anything else probably requires feats you want to spend on metamagic/metamagic reducers. If you have a martial weapon proficiency somehow (like from being a Kobold) you could take an Abjuration at 3 and/or 6 and take the last 4 levels in Abjurant Champion instead.

The game is not going past level 12 (as I stated in the OP). If I had the opportunity to get arcane spellsurge, I would just play a sorcerer. (I've read your Mailman Guide)

Since I'm not getting up to that level, I felt like the versatile blasting of the warmage would be superior to straight sorcerer.

Now...Age of Mortals...is that a campaign-specific book?

*glances at the last post* Ah, yes it is. Guess I'll have to run it by my DM first, then. Still, +3 damage per die sounds nice.

[NeoSeraphi]

Hey, how about Wild Mage (+Practiced Spellcaster)? Your blasty spells end up at least as good, and up to +3 CL better than normal. And when you're up against an enemy or situation where blasting isn't going too well, just throw caution to the wind and start spamming Reckless Dweomer


I almost suggested this, but it isn't a great class to take all ten levels of, and I thought it would be too cheesy for him. :smalltongue:

I actually seriously considered this class, but decided against it, as this is for a PbP game, and having to roll 1d6 before I cast a spell would basically lead to a string of double-posting (or filling the OOC thread with single rolls).

That saddens me, though, since it looks hilariously awesome.

[NeoSeraphi]

i read that if you take an illusion of 5th level or higher with eclectic learning you can qualify for archmage.

Earliest entry for archmage is 13th level. This game is from 9th-12th level.


Anyway, guys, now I'm looking over war mage, and I like it, but what's the deal with Arcane Aegis? It's...so terribly worded! What's the action to designate? How long does it last?

[dextercorvia]

What about just taking Bloodlines of Fire, Spell Thematics, Fiery Burst, and Searing Spell (or Energy Substitution)? +4CL at level 9 is like the aforementioned free empower (that you can empower for more effect). There is no RAW subversion, just stacking of intended feat abilities. You can tack on Spellgifted if traits are allowed, although you have to choose between Evocation and Conjuration, then.

[Tyndmyr]

Warmage is pretty solid, and honestly, going straight warmage is not bad. See, there's a few good dippable classes(like Sandshaper, for extra spells known), but most of them are just not worth what you give up for them.

Note that Abjurant Champion might be worthwhile. You're not strong on abj spells, so those bonuses mean fairly little to you, but the bab and what not is useful. That said, unless you sacrifice CL(probably not worthwhile), you won't get into it until level 11, which is kind of late.

Edit: Yes, just taking lots of CL boosters is a quite valid and normal way to blast harder. Also, I suggest metamagic rods.

[NeoSeraphi]

What about just taking Bloodlines of Fire, Spell Thematics, Fiery Burst, and Searing Spell (or Energy Substitution)? +4CL at level 9 is like the aforementioned free empower (that you can empower for more effect). There is no RAW subversion, just stacking of intended feat abilities. You can tack on Spellgifted if traits are allowed, although you have to choose between Evocation and Conjuration, then.

Well, for one thing, that would leave me with no feat slots left for prerequisites, so I'd end up being a 9th level warmage, which makes me die a little inside. :smalltongue:

In all seriousness, though, Fiery Burst isn't a good idea for this game. I'm expecting to face a lot of outsiders (Demons, daemons, and devils), so weak elemental attacks aren't even going to scratch them thanks to resistance/immunity.

Searing Spell is definitely on my list of things to take, though.

[Prime32]

Incantatrix maybe? You're not a wizard so you can't go into full cheese mode, but you get more metamagic.

[NeoSeraphi]

Incantatrix maybe? You're not a wizard so you can't go into full cheese mode, but you get more metamagic.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'd prefer war mage. :smallsmile: Always nice to see you on the boards, Prime.

[dextercorvia]

Well, for one thing, that would leave me with no feat slots left for prerequisites, so I'd end up being a 9th level warmage, which makes me die a little inside. :smalltongue:

In all seriousness, though, Fiery Burst isn't a good idea for this game. I'm expecting to face a lot of outsiders (Demons, daemons, and devils), so weak elemental attacks aren't even going to scratch them thanks to resistance/immunity.

Searing Spell is definitely on my list of things to take, though.

Warmage isn't necessarily worse than a blasting PrC. (War Mage from Age of Mortals, and Incantatrix aside)

You aren't taking Fiery Burst for the weak blast, you are taking it for the +1 CL to Fire spells.

Honestly, you should have mentioned the evil outsider thing first. You really want to get Hammer of Righteousness. Check with your DM about getting access to Sanctified Spells, some which way. (If you have to take Exalted Arcanist, it is probably worth the lost CL). Then, you can still use Spell Thematics, and some Force reserve feats, but it is dealing D8s to evil creatures.

[Psyren]

If you're fine with the flavor, then I second Exalted Arcanist, it's worth the lost CL (especially since you can eventually drop nukes on the party without worrying about them.) Alternatively, you can go with Silver Pyromancer from Eberron.

[Torben Raibeart]

I'm currently playing a warmage, so I'm going to suggest the same route that I am going:
Stormcaster

You loose 1 caster level, but gain +2 Cl to electric spells. But the real dealbreaker is what you get at level 5, an ability that gives all electric spells some sonic damage + a save vs. stun. With Energy Substitution, this gets really sweet, at you can turn almost any spell on your list into a save-or-suck. gets especially powerful when you get acid fog, turns it into electric fog and end up with a spell that traps enemies, can stun them and deal ekstra sonic damage.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Warmage 7 or 8/ Paragnostic Apostle, it has absolutely no feat prerequisites though you'll need 5+ ranks in three knowledge skills, which means cross-class ranks in one. I'd pick from Backhanded Attack, Accurate Retort, Penetrating Insight, and Energy Supremacy. You could instead go Warmage 6/ Ruathar 3/ Paragnostic Apostle, Ruathar gets 4+Int skill points with all knowledge skills as class skills.

[NeoSeraphi]

I'm currently playing a warmage, so I'm going to suggest the same route that I am going:
Stormcaster

You loose 1 caster level, but gain +2 Cl to electric spells. But the real dealbreaker is what you get at level 5, an ability that gives all electric spells some sonic damage + a save vs. stun. With Energy Substitution, this gets really sweet, at you can turn almost any spell on your list into a save-or-suck. gets especially powerful when you get acid fog, turns it into electric fog and end up with a spell that traps enemies, can stun them and deal ekstra sonic damage.

Haha, yes! I love stormcaster! The only reason I'm not already taking it is because I'm actually playing a stormcaster in another game right now. :smallbiggrin:

Exalted Arcanist doesn't get Sanctified Spells until 5th level though. (ECL 11 for me). Meanwhile, I get the boost from war mage all the way through my career. Is hammer of righteousness really so necessary? (Worst part is, we don't have a cleric at the moment, though some guys haven't picked anything yet, so I might not have a way to heal Str damage)

[Tyndmyr]

Exalted Arcanist doesn't get Sanctified Spells until 5th level though. (ECL 11 for me). Meanwhile, I get the boost from war mage all the way through my career. Is hammer of righteousness really so necessary? (Worst part is, we don't have a cleric at the moment, though some guys haven't picked anything yet, so I might not have a way to heal Str damage)

Probably not worth it that late. I mean, it'd be great when you get it, but things that help you earlier in your career tend to be a lot more desirable in actual play.

Early entry shenanigans may be possible, but such high cheese is often frowned upon, so use as appropriate.

[Psyren]

Even before you get all the Sanctified Spells though, you still get access to the entire EA spell list (shown here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031004b)). And Purify Spell/Consecrate Spell are quite good - the former allows you to blanket the area with AoE without harming your allies, while the latter helps deal with your immunity/resistance problem.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

A Rod of Bodily Restoration (MIC) can easily negate the sacrifice drawback of just about any sanctified spell. Get a few of them, they're cheap.

[Venger]

Haha, yes! I love stormcaster! The only reason I'm not already taking it is because I'm actually playing a stormcaster in another game right now. :smallbiggrin:

Exalted Arcanist doesn't get Sanctified Spells until 5th level though. (ECL 11 for me). Meanwhile, I get the boost from war mage all the way through my career. Is hammer of righteousness really so necessary? (Worst part is, we don't have a cleric at the moment, though some guys haven't picked anything yet, so I might not have a way to heal Str damage)

there's always eternal wands of lesser restoration. does your party have some kind of skillful class in it? (rogue/factotum/spellthief/etc) with UMD? s/he could always use it on you. besides, you're a warmage, you don't really use str all that much.

if you're especially worried about str damage and an eternal wand of lesser restoration and someone to use it on you isn't viable for whatever reason, you can always just take the "bind vestige" feat and pick naberius so you can heal ability point damage on your own at the rate of 1/round

[Snowbluff]

Incantatrix has my vote. It might be a little powerful though.

If you wanna gish, Swiftblade makes for a good one. If you have the feat for it, Abj Champ is nice with just about anything imo.

Btw, Seraphi, I didn't recognize you with the new avi. It looks great ^^

[Brock Samson]

Nice, what book is Stormcaster in???

[Randomguy]

Elemental Savant and Argent Savant let you specialise in one particular energy type or force, but both involve loosing caster levels. Elemental Savant loses 2 caster levels, but you become an elemental at the end. Also, it's possible to avoid being useless on people immune to your element with feats like piercing cold and searing spell.

Wild Mage isn't too hard to qualify for, has no caster levels lost and gets you a few abilities that you wouldn't be able to get otherwise, as well as a possible caster level boost, if you roll well.

Incantatrix is the gold standard for blasters. You can ban a school that you barely get access to anyways, like enchantment, and gain extra spell slots for almost no cost. You also get extra metamagic feats and metamagic reducers.

SandShaper loses 2 caster levels, but increases your spell list.

Abjurant champion is another good class, even if you aren't a gish: it takes a long time to get the required BAB, but if you play an elf or another race that grants proficiency with a martial weapon then all it costs you is a feat to get d10 HD and full BAB for 5 levels, as well as some other boosts.

[The Underlord]

In case it hasn't been mentioned, the acrane disple feat can be useful to expand you spell list or qualify for pretige classes.

[The Underlord]

forum ate my post

[jaybird]

Another voice in favour of War Mage. Also, if it's possible, try to get Intensify Spell from Pathfinder - it adds 5d6 to your dice cap. Stack on Arcane Thesis and Spell Specialization (also Pathfinder) to get +3CL on your favourite blast. 3 feats to 15d6+45 out of a 3rd level slot (Intensify is +1) by Warmage 7/War Mage 5.

Is there any particular sort of elemental damage you want to specialize in? I know Fire's got lots of resistances, but Searing Spell (+2 metamagic, Sandstorm) will let you (IIRC) bypass immunity and halve resistance, and Fiery/Scorching (+1/+2 metamagic, +1/+3 damage/dice respectively, Sandstorm) are awesome damage boosters when you stack them with War Mage. Better yet: they stack with Empower's bonus dice, as does War Mage bonus damage :smallamused:

[gbprime]

Well heck, if you're going to spend a caster level and a lot of feats that you don't need, use Sanctified One of Kord instead. first level has no caster progression, but you can pick up the ability to turn every fire spell you cast into untyped holy damage instead. Then just spam Blast of Flame which has No SR allowed. Win.

[NeoSeraphi]

Another voice in favour of War Mage. Also, if it's possible, try to get Intensify Spell from Pathfinder - it adds 5d6 to your dice cap. Stack on Arcane Thesis and Spell Specialization (also Pathfinder) to get +3CL on your favourite blast. 3 feats to 15d6+45 out of a 3rd level slot (Intensify is +1) by Warmage 7/War Mage 5.

Is there any particular sort of elemental damage you want to specialize in? I know Fire's got lots of resistances, but Searing Spell (+2 metamagic, Sandstorm) will let you (IIRC) bypass immunity and halve resistance, and Fiery/Scorching (+1/+2 metamagic, +1/+3 damage/dice respectively, Sandstorm) are awesome damage boosters when you stack them with War Mage. Better yet: they stack with Empower's bonus dice, as does War Mage bonus damage :smallamused:

Don't think I'll get any Pathfinder material approved. And Searing Spell is a +1 metamagic, by the way. (Great feat!)

[jaybird]

Don't think I'll get any Pathfinder material approved. And Searing Spell is a +1 metamagic, by the way. (Great feat!)

That's saddening - Intensify is one of the best blaster metamagics bar none. Searing is definitely awesome.

Still...given a 10d6 Fireball, you can run that up to 15d6+105 that blows through resistance and immunity for the cost of 5 feats (Arcane Thesis, Searing/Scorching/Fiery/Empowered) and a total adjustment of +2 as Warmage 5/War Mage 5. Average damage 157...and I'm pretty sure you get the prereq feats for War Mage free from Warmage (Combat Casting and Eschew Materials?). Oh, and War Mage will give you Empower for free, so make that a total of 4 feats :smallbiggrin: pick up Maximize from War Mage 4 and grab as many metamagic reducers as you can from there on. You goal is a Searing Scorching Fiery Empowered Maximized (Twin, Quicken, Widen, Sculpt optional) Fireball as a level 3 spell :smallamused:

[Human Paragon 3]

Arcane Disciple (as mentioned above) would add the Knowledge Domain to your caster list, giving you access to the Loremsater prestige class. Divination magic is super useful for warriors. I believe you could qualify by level 7, 8 at the latest.

[Urpriest]

Dragonlance has Reserves of Strength, which is situationally more powerful than Pathfinder Intensify. If you have access to War Mage you'll have access to it.

[NeoSeraphi]

Hammer of righteousness does look pretty nice..screw it. I'll just play a cleric. I can outblast anyone with my holy power. I will smite them all!

Thanks for your help guys, I really appreciate it.

[dextercorvia]

Hammer of righteousness does look pretty nice..screw it. I'll just play a cleric. I can outblast anyone with my holy power. I will smite them all!

Thanks for your help guys, I really appreciate it.

Just to make sure you saw -- Clerics can spontaneously swap out spells for Sanctified Spells, just like cures.

[Snowbluff]

Just to make sure you saw -- Clerics can spontaneously swap out spells for Sanctified Spells, just like cures.

SWEEEEEEETTTTT! I gotta try this!