V and Haley's relationship

[thisisnotspam]

Here Haley asks V to share a room with her and V doesn't object

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0123.html

and here V claims to only room with Haley (perhaps only in order to avoid sharing a room with Miko)

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0225.html

Since we don't know V's gender it's not necessarily just to share a room with another woman. Is their relationship explained in one of the books? I don't see anything in the comic that would explain such closeness.

[Jaros]

I don't know, but we should note that Haley was also the only one (I assume) to know V was maried.

[Psyren]

Their backstory together has not yet been explained. Origin spoiler-ish:

After their individual appearances in Origin (before they met), there is a timeskip - the next time we see them, they are already friends, hanging out at the same tavern where Roy and Durkon end up meeting everyone else.

[DaveMcW]

V doesn't want to share a room with Belkar.
Haley doesn't want to share a room with Belkar.

Everything else follows logically. ;)

[zimmerwald1915]

OtOoPCs goes into the beginnings of their relationship in some detail. Or so I've been led to believe. I don't actually own the book.

[Gift Jeraff]

Haley and V knew each other sometime before the Order was formed. It is unknown how long exactly, but NCftPB's cast page calls it a pre-existing friendship. Vaarsuvius even calls Miss Starshine his/her friend in WaXP's recap; has s/he ever used that term for anyone else?

[Chess Tyrant]

While Haley is trying to spill her secrets to Elan in #309 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0309.html), she says a few things like "I have a tattoo you've never seen" and "I kissed a girl once... Ok, ok, more than once!"

She then thinks to herself 'No, it couldn't be THAT, could it? Even V doesn't know that one..." This implies that V does know the preceding secrets.

[Psyren]

OtOoPCs goes into the beginnings of their relationship in some detail. Or so I've been led to believe. I don't actually own the book.

Not much beyond "they know each other." (See spoiler in my post.)

[NerfTW]

OtOoPCs goes into the beginnings of their relationship in some detail. Or so I've been led to believe. I don't actually own the book.

If you don't actually own the books, you should probably refrain from telling people what you think is in them. There are plenty of people who know the correct answer.

I say this because I remember a thread about SOD where the person admitted to not owning the books, yet insisted on debating the morality of the opening scene, despite every point he made being based on incorrect assumptions about what was in the book.

It just results in rumors about what was in them that confuse new readers.

[EmperorSarda]

Haley doesn't know which gender V is of course, but given that Haley seems to know him/her well, probably trusts that with V being married, V would never try anything untoward her at all.

[zimmerwald1915]

Haley doesn't know which gender V is of course, but given that Haley seems to know him/her well, probably trusts that with V being married, V would never try anything untoward her at all.
Well, if it comes to that, there's no evidence that V has ever "tried anything," untoward or not, with anyone, up to and including Inkyrius. The closest V comes to hinting at a sexual relationship with her mate is admitting to Sabine that she would feel jealous if she found Inkyrius "in the arms of another elf".

Nerf, I'll keep that in mind.

[Gift Jeraff]

Haley doesn't know which gender V is of course, but given that Haley seems to know him/her well, probably trusts that with V being married, V would never try anything untoward her at all.Haley has never expressed confusion over V's gender, not has she ever used a gendered pronoun for V. I think it's fair to guess that she and Blackwing are among the few non-elves to know what gender V is.

[Calintares]

Vaarsuvius even calls Miss Starshine his/her friend in WaXP's recap; has s/he ever used that term for anyone else?

s/he mentioned his/her hard-earned friendship with Elan in strip 153 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0153.html)

[Red XIV]

Haley doesn't know which gender V is of course, but given that Haley seems to know him/her well, probably trusts that with V being married, V would never try anything untoward her at all.
Or it's just as much of a non-issue to her as it is to V.

[SpaceBadger]

I had fun figuring out the cryptograms for Haley's speech when those strips originally ran, but it is a pain in the neck to do it again when re-reading, so I just looked up the "What Haley Said" thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4909), and here is the link for anyone else wanting to bookmark it: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4909

[Tergon]

Well, if it comes to that, there's no evidence that V has ever "tried anything," untoward or not, with anyone, up to and including Inkyrius. The closest V comes to hinting at a sexual relationship with her mate is admitting to Sabine that she would feel jealous if she found Inkyrius "in the arms of another elf".

This may be just me, but I kind of figured that the closest we've ever come to hinting at V's nature as a sexual being would be the fact that, y'know, V has two kids. Which is less of a hint and more of a pretty definitive bit of evidence. Plus there's always panel four of this comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0679.html) where either Inkyrius is looking for a romantic evening, or else he's just celebrating a night away from the kids with candles.
Of course, this goes out the window if there's something from the print books that I'm not aware of that states the kids are adopted or similar. Or that elves reproduce asexually, perhaps? I apologise and concede my wrongness if that's the case! I'd just sort of assumed that, y'know. Kids = Having Had Sex At Some Point.

[Mauve Shirt]

This may be just me, but I kind of figured that the closest we've ever come to hinting at V's nature as a sexual being would be the fact that, y'know, V has two kids. Which is less of a hint and more of a pretty definitive bit of evidence. Plus there's always panel four of this comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0679.html) where either Inkyrius is looking for a romantic evening, or else he's just celebrating a night away from the kids with candles.
Of course, this goes out the window if there's something from the print books that I'm not aware of that states the kids are adopted or similar. Or that elves reproduce asexually, perhaps? I apologise and concede my wrongness if that's the case! I'd just sort of assumed that, y'know. Kids = Having Had Sex At Some Point.

Except his kids are adopted.

[hamishspence]

"My adopted progeny" is used when speaking of them here:

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0631.html

so it's in the main strip, not only the book.

[ti'esar]

Except his kids are adopted.

The kids are adopted so we don't know V's sexual orientation (and thus have even less clues to her gender). I don't think it's really evidence that V and Inky have a chaste marriage.

...Why are we discussing this?

[Tergon]

Ah, fair enough. Must've missed that line of dialogue. Dumb me!

Still, I do think that strip I linked to pretty strongly implies that V and Inky aren't in a sexless marriage. The point of this being that Inky would know V's gender. And hell, even if they have never slept together, I don't think we can really argue that you'd marry someone without knowing their gender. Even if the Elves honestly don't care about gender roles, if their race has genders that's sort of something you find out about the one you marry, y'know?

So yeah. Haley may or may not know, Blackwing may or may not know, but there's one canonical character at least who we can be pretty confident knows V's gender, adopted kids or not.

[Mauve Shirt]

The kids are adopted so we don't know V's sexual orientation (and thus have even less clues to her gender). I don't think it's really evidence that V and Inky have a chaste marriage.
Yes, I don't either, but it is the case that they can no longer be used as proof that V's had sex. Inky probably knows that V is a guy. :smallwink:

[Cranica]

Their closeness among the order may be related to their relatively compatible alignments. Haley's Chaotic Good and V's neutral, but still cares for those close to him/her. Everyone in the party except them and Elan (who is counted as a friend by both) is either Lawful in a way that is frustrating to them (Roy, Durkon), or Evil (Belkar). Law/Chaos is as much a matter of personality as it is morality, so it makes sense that friendships would align along compatible ways of doing things.

[Diadem]

Inky probably knows that V is a guy. :smallwink:
Lies! :)

Interesting question though. We know V has a well-defined gender, and we know Rich is not planning on revealing it, ever. He has stated both. So it'll always be speculation. But sometimes speculation is fun.

So what gender do people here think V has? I always imagine V as female, but I seem to be in the minority.

[ti'esar]

Lies! :)

Interesting question though. We know V has a well-defined gender, and we know Rich is not planning on revealing it, ever. He has stated both. So it'll always be speculation. But sometimes speculation is fun.

So what gender do people here think V has? I always imagine V as female, but I seem to be in the minority.

I use female pronouns for the reason I gave earlier, but I neither know nor care about what V's actual biological sex is.

[Anarion]

Ignoring V's gender, I think we can safely say that V and Haley have an excellent friendship and work quite well together. Haley values V's magic and V isn't perturbed by Haley's greed or lies bluffs. Plus they both like snarking.

[internisus]

I never understand these discussions. V's androgyny is part of his/her identity. I sometimes make an effort to see her/him as male or female, and it just feels wrong; either way, something is missing. There's no need to resolve this, and I'm quite glad that Rich has clearly stated that it will never happen. We should just accept androgyny as a legitimate gender. V's asexuality makes it easy.

Now, the history of Haley and V's friendship, on the other hand, is something I would very much like to understand. I have always thought it strange that it wasn't explained in On the Origin of PCs.

[R. Malcovitch]

Inkarius is indisputably male going by Rich's artistic trend of drawing men with right-angled hips, but that says nothing for V's gender as s/he could be a straight female or homosexual male. Or bisexual. The point is, V likes men, so Haley, as a straight female, has no objections rooming with him/her.

[Blisstake]

Haley doesn't know which gender V is of course, but given that Haley seems to know him/her well, probably trusts that with V being married, V would never try anything untoward her at all.

Haley could know. I think she's the only one of the Order who hasn't questioned V's gender so far.


Inkarius is indisputably male, but that says nothing for V's gender as s/he could be a straight female or homosexual male. Or bisexual. The point is, V likes men, so Haley, as a straight female, has no objections rooming with him/her.

Uh, we don't know Inkykarius' gender. Inky always struck me as female, actually.

[ti'esar]

Uh, we don't know Inkykarius' gender. Inky always struck me as female, actually.

Inky's square torso is pretty much exclusive to men. It's a stretch to use the term indisputable, but he does look more male then V does either gender.

[The Succubus]

While Haley is trying to spill her secrets to Elan in #309 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0309.html), she says a few things like "I have a tattoo you've never seen" and "I kissed a girl once... Ok, ok, more than once!"

.....could V have been that girl....? :smallwink:

[Bastian Weaver]

Inky could just be a manly girl, you know.

[zimmerwald1915]

Inky's square torso is pretty much exclusive to men. It's a stretch to use the term indisputable, but he does look more male then V does either gender.
Well, human women who wear some types of armor or short-hemmed skirts tend to get square bottoms, but Inky doesn't seem to be wearing either. Inky also doesn't have a hemispherical bottom, the way some elves (including at least a couple of those sent to the Resistance) do.

[Adanedhel]

.....could V have been that girl....? :smallwink:

now that would be totally awesome with O-chulsauce :p

[Chess Tyrant]

.....could V have been that girl....? :smallwink:

I'm pretty sure it's a deliberate ship tease on the Giant's part. We already know they're good friends, and there's a fair amount of 'evidence' that, if you really wanted to interpret it that way, could point towards a past romantic relationship between them.*

*Obviously, there's tons more that points the other direction... But if you're grasping at straws to pair them up, you're probably not going to care.

[Chantelune]

.....could V have been that girl....? :smallwink:

Would be fun, but I highly doubt that. V seems mostly uninterested in romances and sexuality so far, so it seems unlikely to me that she showed any interested in Haley beside friendship. Wouldn't mind being proved wrong, though. :smallbiggrin:

[zimmerwald1915]

Would be fun, but I highly doubt that. V seems mostly uninterested in romances and sexuality so far, so it seems unlikely to me that she showed any interested in Haley beside friendship. Wouldn't mind being proved wrong, though. :smallbiggrin:
Given that V's response to finding Inky with a lover would be to blast that lover with lightning, and that she councils Sabine to "fight for her love" with similar vehemence, V seems to take a rather dim view of adultery. This probably accounts for her not indulging in romances on the road.

[Chantelune]

Given that V's response to finding Inky with a lover would be to blast that lover with lightning, and that she councils Sabine to "fight for her love" with similar vehemence, V seems to take a rather dim view of adultery. This probably accounts for her not indulging in romances on the road.

Yeah, I meant she have little interest outside her own marriage, though she seemed to have neglected it a great deal so far. In a "secondary stuff" way, not a "fooling around" way. My bad for poor phrasing

[ref]

Don't forget that Haley is a latent bisexual, for what it's worth.

[Ron Miel]

Inkarius is indisputably male ... .

Erm, no. Every elf is intended to be androgynous, except for Lirian (definitely female) and Pompey, who is only half-elven anyway.

Personally, I think that cooking a romantic meal is more of a feminine trait, and I think the hair colour and style is more feminine, but that doesn't prove anything conclusive.