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View Full Version : Brute-force enchantment?



Alefiend
2012-02-21, 02:29 AM
I've been playing D&D for a very long time, but there's something I've never quite been able to get my head around. Spells from the Enchantment school—specifically the charm and compulsion subtypes—are made for casters who want to get their way without resorting to force. But in order to use them, one must take an obvious and potentially hostile action, to wit casting the spell. This should raise problems.

1. These spells generally allow a saving throw, and while it's typically not hard to make the save DC beyond the easy reach of most NPCs, the chance of failure is still there. If the NPC is a powerful individual, perhaps a former adventurer, the success chance drops considerably.

2. They are typically single-target affairs, which means they are nearly useless if your target isn't alone. Thus, it's easily negated by refusing to be alone with the caster—easy enough to arrange for any NPC who has something the PCs want and is important enough to not murder.

3. They have significant limits on what they can persuade/force the victim to do, and trying to overreach those limits grants a new save with bonuses at best, and a breaking of the effect at worst. Players are notorious for asking too much of the spells they cast.

4. Casting spells in social settings is something that should be viewed with suspicion at the very least, unless you already implicitly trust the caster—it's the equivalent of waving a gun around in public. Stilled, silent, or otherwise covert casting helps with this, but it moves the point of utility for the spell back several caster levels. Distracting the target and any witnesses can also work, but such methods are hardly reliable and are likely to lead to comic levels of failure when put in the hands of our rich, violent hobos.

For these reasons and more, I've always been wary of playing wizards who made use of charm spells. If I'm right about my points, these spells should be nearly unworkable in a reasonable situation, being blunt instruments rather than the subtle tools you'd expect.

Despite this, people sing the praises of bards, beguilers, and enchantment specialists in social settings. What am I failing to understand?

Eisenfavl
2012-02-21, 02:58 AM
Bards and Beguilers already have great social skills, i.e. skill points.
Enchantment really just comes for A. adding to your check and B. bruteforcing certain situations.

Mystify
2012-02-21, 06:22 AM
There are numerous ways to mask the fact you are casting a spell. Suceeding can also make the fact they saw you cast it irrelevant. Just hte other day, our beguiler used charm person on the goblin chief. The rest of the goblins were telling him "He cast a spell on you!", but he was charmed so he didn't care.

Alefiend
2012-02-21, 10:56 AM
There are numerous ways to mask the fact you are casting a spell. Suceeding can also make the fact they saw you cast it irrelevant. Just hte other day, our beguiler used charm person on the goblin chief. The rest of the goblins were telling him "He cast a spell on you!", but he was charmed so he didn't care.

Right. He was charmed; the rest of them weren't. What should have followed was the next highest-ranking goblin saying, "They've bewitched the chief! KILL THEM!" or, alternatively, "KILL HIM" (the chief) if the goblins are prone to power struggles. Either way, it's not going to turn out well for you.

Mystify
2012-02-21, 11:10 AM
Right. He was charmed; the rest of them weren't. What should have followed was the next highest-ranking goblin saying, "They've bewitched the chief! KILL THEM!" or, alternatively, "KILL HIM" (the chief) if the goblins are prone to power struggles. Either way, it's not going to turn out well for you.
The charmed chief killed one of the other goblins for trying to bypass his authority. He is chief because he is able to hold that power, which does not change because you charmed him. You charming him means that their protests that he is charmed don't work. This would not be the first time he made a decision that they disagreed with, and him being under a spell doesn't change how that unfolds. Someone tries to protest, gets a greatsword through the head, and everyone else shuts up.

Kobold-Bard
2012-02-21, 11:14 AM
Isn't there a skill trick that lets you mask the fact that you're casting a spell?

Psyren
2012-02-21, 11:16 AM
Usbt there a skill ck that lets you mask the fact that you're casting a spell?

The best source is Races of Stone, which adds it to the Sleight of Hand skill baseline.
Failing that, Complete Scoundrel makes it a skill trick, which is more difficult to use repeatedly and comes online much later.
And of course the Beguiler gets it as a class feature x/day.

Or you can just use psionics, which not only lets you hide the initial manifestation but also allows you to use effects like Suggestion without speaking.

legomaster00156
2012-02-21, 11:22 AM
Enchantment is meant as a subtler type of magic. Here's one relevent idea: Instead of charming the king, charm one of his closest mages. They may have a high Will save, but Wisdom is less important for a Wizard or Sorcerer than it is for a king. They'll likely still have influence over the king's decisions.