Disarming is a thing isn't it?

[kulosle]

So to put it simply, why is disarming never talked about? I guess there aren't much splat support for it like the other special combat maneuvers but it's still a useful idea. Has anyone ever made a disarming centered build? How did it go? What did it look like? I don't even know how you would really optimize it, and i consider myself a fairly decent optimizer.

[Mystify]

The problem is that most things you fight can't be disarmed. Mosnters generally use natural weapons and/or spells/spell-likes/supernaturals. Even those that do use weapons, like giants, often have natural weapon backups. Against humanoids there you monks and spellcasters which it doesn't work against.
Its just way to unlikely to be useless. And even if you do disarm them, you have to prevent them from just picking it back up again.

[Krazzman]

So to put it simply, why is disarming never talked about? I guess there aren't much splat support for it like the other special combat maneuvers but it's still a useful idea. Has anyone ever made a disarming centered build? How did it go? What did it look like? I don't even know how you would really optimize it, and i consider myself a fairly decent optimizer.

In our group we had a Halfling take a whip. He was a bard of course and took only the Improved Disarm feat as far as I know. He could disarm an Ogre with ease...

The thing about it never being mentioned is: it doesn't help against casters, many monsters and is hard to pull off against the ones that have weapons.
Furthermore there a items that render this maneuver useless for... 5sp?

[Krosta]

I think the point is that disarming is not that useful against the typical encounter in a "classic" D&D adventure (that is, dungeon crawling & slaying horrific monsters), because the PCs are way more likely to battle against creatures that use their own natural weapons. Enemies that fight with manufactured weapons are much rarer, and it's generally considered inefficient to stick with a tactic that is useful only in rare cases.
It may be different if the players confront with lots of NPCs, but that's generally not the case. :smallwink:

[Antonok]

As a player I never found disarming to be useful due to a lot of factors such as: alot of monsters who don't use manufactured weapons, mages, lock gauntlets (or whatever its called), etc. Even if you do come across enemies that you can disarm, the ones that are a threat usually have a higher strength score then you.

As a DM however.....

[Red_Dog]

As a DM however.....
Fear the disarming Ghosts!!!!! ^_^
======================================>

Thing is, if you have a feat to spare on your tripping build, pick up a disarm, I see no reason not too.

Other than that, Sleight of Hand shenaniganery is far more dangerous as you can swipe sepll books, component pouches, wands and etc. etc. Which is more common with far dire consequences. If you can do all of that at range... and with obscure LoS tricks... than man, the DM will despise you and somehow everything but the kitchen sink will fly towards your face every encounter hehe... provided that you haven't swiped said questionable kitchen sink first... lol

[absolmorph]

Fear the disarming Ghosts!!!!! ^_^
======================================>

Thing is, if you have a feat to spare on your tripping build, pick up a disarm, I see no reason not too.

Other than that, Sleight of Hand shenaniganery is far more dangerous as you can swipe sepll books, component pouches, wands and etc. etc. Which is more common with far dire consequences. If you can do all of that at range... and with obscure LoS tricks... than man, the DM will despise you and somehow everything but the kitchen sink will fly towards your face every encounter hehe... provided that you haven't swiped said questionable kitchen sink first... lol
Stealing the sword from their sheath and hiding it on your body is only a DC 50 check... And a DC 70 lets you do it as a free action...
And technically you don't even need to be wearing clothes to do it...

[Red_Dog]

absolmorph =>

Where IS that DC table? Just PHBI??

ALso yeah, DC50 is oddly enough not too hard to achieve... Factotum shenaniganery is ... well... Factotum shenaniganery.


And technically you don't even need to be wearing clothes to do it...
Isn't that part "escape artist" check? = P you know, tight spaces and all?O_o.. On the OTHER hand... I do not want to know ANYTHING about that lol.

[Ernir]

absolmorph =>

Where IS that DC table? Just PHBI??

Epic level handbook, and the SRD. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/skills.htm#sleightOfHand)

[sonofzeal]

A recently-retired character didn't have "Improved Disarm", but ended up in a situation where it worked well anyway. She had claws so her hands were empty, and her AC was huge so the AoO was almost guaranteed to miss. Going from being threatened by a weapon, to holding that person's own weapon, was a powerful psychological blow that helped me spin the encounter the way I wanted to.

Also, my most recent character is Disarm-focused, using Flindbars (MM3) so that he gets a free disarm attempt every time he gets a critical threat. With TWF and Improved Critical, that means about a 50% chance of a free disarm attempt each full attack. Plus he hits hard, moves fast, and has a nice mix of other skills. I haven't played him yet, but it seems like a nice way to go about it - he can use Disarm effectively without having to waste actions on it.

[Medic!]

The most use I ever got out of disarming was on a spiked chain BFC build. Trip the baddie, use disarm as the follow-up attack from improved trip, then giggle when they use their next turn to stand up and retrieve their weapon...provoking 2 more AoOs and using all their actions for their turn.

[navar100]

Disarming needs DM cooperation to make it work. There has to be a significant number of enemies that can be disarmed. In addition, the act of disarming has to be a worthy tactic, meaning disarming helped the party in the combat equal to if not more than had the PC just attacked for damage. If the disarmed bad guy doesn't attack for a round or two, spring a trap, grab the McGuffin, etc., then it's a worthwhile tactic.

If one particular BBEG or Lieutenant has locked gauntlets, ok. If all or most opponents have them, the DM is a jerk.

[Medic!]

If one particular BBEG or Lieutenant has locked gauntlets, ok. If all or most opponents have them, the DM is a jerk.create an eternal pact between your druid or cleric and your incantrix and unleash the most awful painful horrendous heat metal shenanigans you can think of.

Maximized, Empowered, Extended Persisted?, Fell Drain, Fell Weaken, Twin Spell, Energy Admixture...

Then run in circles out of reach singing "Hot Hot Hot"


Really? No, not really, but the mental imagery makes it worth the bandwidth.

[ericgrau]

@various above comments: I saw my first and only pair of locked gauntlets in my history of playing D&D after making a disarmer :smallsmile:.

The thing with disarming is that it's very powerful yet against a limited number of foes. Most people don't bother with it because they barely get to use it. In a humanoid heavy campaign or in the hands of DMs (assuming a humanoid party) it's great though. Even then you still want to be able to do damage or have another backup just in case.

And there's nothing much special to optimizing it. You get a high attack bonus and a lot of attacks, get into the middle of your foes and strip them of their weapons. Done. Melee weapon mastery and perfect two weapon fighting can help with your attack bonus if they aren't too strong for your gaming group. There's also the ranged disarm feat to let you reach more foes by disarming with a bow. You can also combine it with tripping and pinning foes to a nearby wall I think if you want to be a fancy bowman.

If you are good with unarmed strikes and disarming unarmed (even at the -4) penalty then you can keep your foe's weapon so (a) he can't fight with it and (b) you can. This is hard to pull off though since you need to be good melee, ranged, unarmed and disarming all simultaneously. Takes a lot of fighter levels.

[Mystify]

@various above comments: I saw my first and only pair of locked gauntlets in my history of playing D&D after making a disarmer :smallsmile:.

That is easily explained by irrelevance. It doesn't matter if they have a locked gauntlet if you never try to disarm them, and its not really a notable part of loot, so why would you mention it? Or as a DM, why would you spend time considering an irrelevant detail? They should exist out in the world, but you ignore them most of the time due to irrelevance.

[Greenish]

In our group we had a Halfling take a whip. He was a bard of course and took only the Improved Disarm feat as far as I know. He could disarm an Ogre with ease...That's quite a feat, given that an ogre would have +12 bonus* to it's attack roll to avoid being disarmed by a halfling.


*+4 for two-handed weapon, +4 for each size category larger than opponent.

[Antonok]

If one particular BBEG or Lieutenant has locked gauntlets, ok. If all or most opponents have them, the DM is a jerk.

Or if all opponents mysteriously gain 1 monk level and the stuffs to raise unarmed damage :smalleek:

[Medic!]

Or if all opponents mysteriously gain 1 monk level and the stuffs to raise unarmed damage :smalleek:

ugh....my aforementioned spiked chain fighter eventually ran into the night's big baddie, a half-orc barbarian with a greataxe. Even I was getting tired of tripping everything in sight so I went for the disarm and he LAUGHED AT ME and started going monk-fu on everyone :smallfrown: Then I tripped him. :smallcool:

[Nerd-o-rama]

It's more useful in a campaign when you're going to be fighting a lot of humanoids within a size category of you with weapons rather than monsters. More useful against weapons (especially expensive/tough magic items) than Improved Sunder, but not as useful against small, fragile magic items or spell component pouches.

Especially if, say, you're going to be spending a lot of time in a society where traditional fencing/dueling or other less-than-lethal combat is a way to resolve conflicts.

[Adamantrue]

I can see how it can be a waste against Monsters using Natural Attacks, but there are enough other viable options the other half of the time that I don't see it as a waste, provided its not your only trick. Snatching Wands, Focuses, Material Components, various Macguffins.

This is from my experience with lower-level play (rarely past 10th). I wouldn't be completely surprised if it falls apart the same way Grappling does at higher levels.

[nightwyrm]

It would be so much better if disarming actually dis-armed (or de-clawed/de-fanged) the enemy...:smalltongue:

[Medic!]

It would be so much better if disarming actually dis-armed (or de-clawed/de-fanged) the enemy...:smalltongue:

That falls under the perview of Rule 0, and it'd be worth asking the DM to allow successful disarms on non-weapons to disable their use for a couple rounds. You smack the dragon's claw with your sword! Ouch that smarts! The dragon loses use of his claw for 1d3 rounds?

[TuggyNE]

It would be so much better if disarming actually dis-armed (or de-clawed/de-fanged) the enemy...:smalltongue:

I'm certain I've seen a webcomic with that exact punchline ... was it in Girl Genius (http://www.girlgeniusonline.com/comic.php?date=20070910)? (Yes.)

[Greenish]

It would be so much better if disarming actually dis-armed (or de-clawed/de-fanged) the enemy...:smalltongue:You'll think it's a great idea, until you're going toe-to-toe with some big nasty and realize they have to option to disarm too. :smalleek:

[TheTick]

Yeah, that would be opening the tactic for use against you. Though that might be a way to bring in some Monty Python quotes in your game.

[Coidzor]

Also the problem of how much damage does it take to render a limb crippled/removed/destroyed and what if any of that damage goes towards getting one's murder on.

[nightwyrm]

Yeah, that would be opening the tactic for use against you. Though that might be a way to bring in some Monty Python quotes in your game.

An entire table going "It's just a flesh wound." is just hilarious. :smallbiggrin:

[kulosle]

GURPS has a way of doing this. I think its something like, each limb actually contains a certain percentage of your hitpoints. If it takes that much then it is cripple, and if you have the dis-arming advantage/skill then when you cripple someones limb it comes off. I've tried applying this to D&D but the problem is coming up with a targeting system.

[Killer Angel]

So to put it simply, why is disarming never talked about? I guess there aren't much splat support for it like the other special combat maneuvers but it's still a useful idea. Has anyone ever made a disarming centered build? How did it go? What did it look like? I don't even know how you would really optimize it, and i consider myself a fairly decent optimizer.

I find simpler and more efficient (read: feat saving) making a tripper with 2h weapon with reach... when needed, I can always try to disarm an opponent, 'cause with reach my target won't have any chance to AaO, even without Improved Disarm.
I won't have the +4 bonus of the feat (but it will be balanced by the +4 for the 2hw), and I'll have a chance to do the disarm anyway and without consequences, saving the feat's slot.