[3.5] Pimp my Duskblade!

[macdaddy]

I am starting at 1st level and am looking at playing as a Duskblade.

My rolled available stats are:
18, 14, 14, 14, 13, 10

I've been toying with different builds. Here is one I like:

Option 1
duskblade13/wizard1/abjurantchampion2/UM4

You basically trade you 5th level duskblade spells for 4th level wizard spells. You can also add a 1st and 2nd level wizard spell to your duskblade spells known, I'd take shield and wraithstrike.

I could take 2 different wizard variants. I like the conjurer's abrupt jaunt and trading scribe scroll for a fighter feat. Plus there's also the fact that you can now full channel spells like shriveling touch and contagion :)

I end up with:
Wizard 7 casting, Duskblade 16 casting, BAB 17
Abrupt Jaunt immediate magic
Ability to move some spells across, all abjurations are extended and ability to burn spells and power metamagic

Feats:
1. Power attack H. Combat Reflexes
2. Combat Casting
3. Knowledge Devotion
6. [open]
9. Arcane Strike
12. [open] Travel Devotion?
15. [open] Improved Familiar?
18. [open]

Have to use the 6th, 12th, or 15th level feat for a meta magic slot

Option 2
Branch out from duskblade earlier. I need some help with this build.

Duskblade 5/Wizard 1/Spellsword 1/Abjurant Champion 5 / Swiftblade? Sacred Exorcist? or back to duskblade?

For the wizard level, I could use Focused specialist Necromancer (for more castings of Vampiric Touch, Night's Caress and Bestow Curse) or Transmutation.

Forbidden schools: Illusion, Enchantment.... what 3rd school for a focused specialist?

Feats:
1. Power Attack H: [open]
2. Combat Casting
3. Knowledge Devotion
6. [open] Travel Devotion
9. [open]
12. Arcane Strike
15. [open]
18. [open]


=========================

How would you build a duskblade with these stats? What feats would you take? when would you branch out from duskblade into other classes?

[chaotician375]

ok this one is kind of convoluted and ur dm might not let it work but according to rules loopholes it does.

Duskblade 3 to get the arcane channeling feature

Fighter 1 with the armored mage acf to get the ability to cast wizard spells in light armor

Rouge 1 for 1d6 sneak attack

Wizard 5 for 3rd lvl spells and a wide array of of such

Spell warp sniper 1 for the ability to turn your wizard spells into rays which are touch spells that you can channel into melee attacks.

the rest in wizard to get more spells and as for feats IDK whats good for a wizard, but weapon focus is always neat.

Duskblade pimped

[Ernir]

Caster classes don't multiclass well (although they prestige class really well). If you're set on taking a nontrivial (3+) number of levels in Duskblade to begin with, I suggest you mostly stick with it. If you really must squeeze in an alternate casting progression, make it a fast one, not a base class progression.

What do you really want? A Duskblade, or a Wizard-gish?

[macdaddy]

A gish mostly.

A duskblade is a decent gish, but the spell access is lacking a little. No real protection based spells, no haste or wraithstrike, make it a little light.

The main advantage is that you are a viable character at low levels. With a normal gish Ftr2/Wiz 4 or Pal2/Sorc 4, you pretty much suck until around level 8-9.

So I guess its either duskblade 13, or Wiz1/Ftr2/Wiz3/SpSw 1/AbjChamp 5/Sacred Exorctist 8 Or Pal 2/ Sorc 4/SpSw 1/ AbjChamp 5/ Sacred Exorcist 8

[Particle_Man]

I would second sticking with one class.

[Talionis]

My first thought is getting yourself into Sublime Chord since it will let you pick up the high level spells you won't get otherwise. You'd need a level or two of Bard and might want to pick up the Extra Music Feat to get any use out of your Bard Music. But its spell progress starts at 4th level and goes to 9th level.

I think the same thing can be done in Divine Spells, but I'm not sure the prestige class.

I've been mulling over a Spellthief/Duskblade build. Masterspellthief Feat means you'd still have full caster level. Being able to channel spells is helpful and at least you can feel like you have access to higher level spells in Spellthief by taking the God's Blood Spelltheft Feat: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/frcc/20070606

Add other stuff to flavor.

[Dusk Eclipse]

Duskblade 2/Paladin 4/Suel Arcanamach 4/Abjurant champion 5/ Sacred Exorcist 5 is pretty neat. Focus on charisma; but be sure to keep Int to 12 so you can cast your Duskblade spells and use them for versatile spellcaster and/or arcane strike.

You get up to level 5 spells
17 BAB
Cha to saves with potential to get it to AC, damage, etc.
An awesome CL (24 against dispels)
Quite a lot of utility.

[dextercorvia]

ok this one is kind of convoluted and ur dm might not let it work but according to rules loopholes it does.

Duskblade 3 to get the arcane channeling feature

Fighter 1 with the armored mage acf to get the ability to cast wizard spells in light armor

Rouge 1 for 1d6 sneak attack

Wizard 5 for 3rd lvl spells and a wide array of of such

Spell warp sniper 1 for the ability to turn your wizard spells into rays which are touch spells that you can channel into melee attacks.

the rest in wizard to get more spells and as for feats IDK whats good for a wizard, but weapon focus is always neat.

Duskblade pimped

Armored Mage only works on spells up to 2nd level in this case. Rays aren't touch spells, they are ranged touch spells, and therefore can't be channeled.

If I were going a different direction after Duskblade13, it would usually be Chameleon. Chameleon 7 gets you Double aptitude so you can cast any Arcane on Divine spell up to 5th level. You'll still get your last iterative. Requires you to be Human (or nearly), but lets face it, after Power Attack, Obtain Familiar, Knowledge Devotion, Arcane Strike and Able Learner, you won't mind a bonus feat for some customization.

[Manateee]

Duskblade 13 is kind of lackluster with the errata (applies only once to an individual target per round)

If the errata's not in play, I'd second dexter on Chameleon for this build. Chameleon follows the same basic casting mechanic as the wizard, but will have slightly less stunted progression, wider spell access (includes every arcane spell list, including weird ones like Trapsmith), and a higher CL until AbjChamp 5 (if you go that route).

If that's out, you could also have luck with Suel Arcanamach. SA would lose the casting stat synergy (but you're probably going to want to avoid spells that allow saves anyway), but would gain faster spell progression, and some useful abilities, like a CL v. dispels that might stand a chance of withstanding them until AbjChamp 5.

And Short of that, if you're just trying to get more spells to channel with your last 7 levels, Enlightened Fist turns ranged touch spells into touch spells, which would make things like Enervation or Disintegrate qualify for full-round channeling.

[gkathellar]

EDIT: Swordsage'd. Seven hours ago.

Enlightened Fist 7 lets you cast ranged touch spells through Channel Spell, and should be considered for any Duskblade build.

[Red_Dog]

I can always suggest silly Fighter 2/Barbarian 1[Lion]/Psychic Warrior 2/Warmind 10 silliness if you aren't dead set on duskblade and just want to gish it up... ^^

Ok... that aside, but here would be my idea=>

Classic Jade Phoenix Mage.

Duskblade is potentially the best candidate to do this.

DuskBlade 5/Warblade 1/Jade Phoenix Mage 10/ finish w/e tickles ya fancy. Consider ending with 2 lvl Dungeon Crusher Dip and than more Warblade or Duskblade.
Feats=> w/e just pick up that Power Attack+Improved Bullrush+Shock Trooper by lvl6, than get anything you want.
Build is simple as hell and pretty darn SAD as warblade gets percs from hight Int, and Duskblade casts with it. Str & Con will help out over all.

The main thing about it actually is that its SUPER fluid. You progress smoothly as Duskblade, than dip Warblade and get 2nd lvl maneuvers and stances, than Jade Phoenix advances both rather gradually with also giving some class features.

So yeah, Duskblade is potentially one THE best ways to be Jade Phoenix Mage as you won't even loose BAB ^^. Yes you only get armored medium caster, but if you are soooo desperate for that Mechanicus ful plate, pick up that feat of Complete Arcane(or Mage?) that gives you one category higher armor to ignore if you could already from class.

Have fun! ^^

[dextercorvia]

EDIT: Swordsage'd. Seven hours ago.

Enlightened Fist 7 lets you cast ranged touch spells through Channel Spell, and should be considered for any Duskblade build.

True. There is something to be said for Full Attack Channeling that Disintegrate. You get Combat Casting for free, so its just two feats to enter.

[macdaddy]

I don't have access to the Tome of Battle, and no psion classes. So, no Jade Phoenix Mage, no Warmind, no warblades, no maneuvers, no Chameleon.

The duskblade/paladin looks interesting, but it seems to me that it fails by missing duskblade 3. If you went Duskblade 3/Paladin 2, you would still need a class with +1BAB so you could get into Suel Arcanamach at level 7. None of them seem particularly good. Plus it seems like that progression kind of suffers from MAD, needing high CHA and Int, not to mention decent STR/DEX/CON.

I did not see the errata on the Duskblade level 13 channeling ability. Seems kind of weak to have to wait until 13th level to get your 2 and 3rd attacks in a full round, especially without getting the channeling on all attacks. The duskblade looks more and more like it maxes out at around 5th or 6th level, then decreases in effectiveness. By the time you are 8-9th, many things will have SR, making the channeling ability pretty weak... and there isn't much in the class to pick up for that loss.

On the surface it looks like a cool class, with some decent features, but between the spell list and the lack of ooomph at higher levels, it seems fairly weak when other classes start to come into their sweet spot around 8-9th.

[dextercorvia]

Suel builds tend to skip Duskblade3, since they don't get many good spells for channeling. They are really after the skills and free Combat Casting.

Did I miss a source restriction in the OP? Chameleon is neither ToB, nor Psionic, btw. It isn't clear to me from your post that you realize that.

If Suel is open, then Enlightened Fist, should be available, they are both in CA.

[Manateee]

On the surface it looks like a cool class, with some decent features, but between the spell list and the lack of ooomph at higher levels, it seems fairly weak when other classes start to come into their sweet spot around 8-9th.
True. But you can definitely make something workable along the lines of:
Duskblade 3/Wizard 4/Abjurant Champion 5/<Full CL 3/4 BA> 8
(add a Spellsword dip, if you're cool with that; leave it out if you aren't)

It loses the full attacks and can lag a bit in ECL 4-7, but you can get around that with silliness like Abrupt Jaunt. And when it matures, you can get all the delicious Wizard touch spells like Bestow Curse, Combust, Shivering Touch and Irresistable Dance, as well as an improved capacity to stack metamagic on them (which can make even things on the Duskblade list like Touch of Idiocy start to be scary).

[Dusk Eclipse]

I don't have access to the Tome of Battle, and no psion classes. So, no Jade Phoenix Mage, no Warmind, no warblades, no maneuvers, no Chameleon.

The duskblade/paladin looks interesting, but it seems to me that it fails by missing duskblade 3. If you went Duskblade 3/Paladin 2, you would still need a class with +1BAB so you could get into Suel Arcanamach at level 7. None of them seem particularly good. Plus it seems like that progression kind of suffers from MAD, needing high CHA and Int, not to mention decent STR/DEX/CON.

I did not see the errata on the Duskblade level 13 channeling ability. Seems kind of weak to have to wait until 13th level to get your 2 and 3rd attacks in a full round, especially without getting the channeling on all attacks. The duskblade looks more and more like it maxes out at around 5th or 6th level, then decreases in effectiveness. By the time you are 8-9th, many things will have SR, making the channeling ability pretty weak... and there isn't much in the class to pick up for that loss.

On the surface it looks like a cool class, with some decent features, but between the spell list and the lack of ooomph at higher levels, it seems fairly weak when other classes start to come into their sweet spot around 8-9th.

The advantage of going paladin 4 is to get turn undead, which can be used for a lot of things, like using cha to damage for example with Divine Might (feat from Complete Warrior).

As for how Mad it is Str 16, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 12, wis 8, Cha 15 is more than enough to start and it is a 32 point buy.

[Keld Denar]

I never understood the fascination with Duskblade13. It's kinda like Whirlwind Attack. If you find yourself in a situation where you can take advantage of it, you are probably either fighting foes not worth the spell/action/investment, or you are in a really rough spot and spreading out the damage will probably get you killed to death.

So, given that, all you are really doing is discharging a spell during a normal attack. You could have been doing that for quite a few levels if you bought a spellstoring weapon. So, basically, you are spending 13 levels for a slightly improved version of a +1 equvalent enchant. Woo...

Also, the best finisher on Suel4/AbjChamp5 is Spellsword1/DragonDisciple4. That finishes up your 10/10 spellcasting and gives you 2 extra 5th level spells per day. You already have Turn Undead from Pal4, so SacEx is pretty irrelevant.

[Talionis]

I never understood the fascination with Duskblade13. It's kinda like Whirlwind Attack. If you find yourself in a situation where you can take advantage of it, you are probably either fighting foes not worth the spell/action/investment, or you are in a really rough spot and spreading out the damage will probably get you killed to death.

So, given that, all you are really doing is discharging a spell during a normal attack. You could have been doing that for quite a few levels if you bought a spellstoring weapon. So, basically, you are spending 13 levels for a slightly improved version of a +1 equvalent enchant. Woo...

Also, the best finisher on Suel4/AbjChamp5 is Spellsword1/DragonDisciple4. That finishes up your 10/10 spellcasting and gives you 2 extra 5th level spells per day. You already have Turn Undead from Pal4, so SacEx is pretty irrelevant.

I'll agree with you, I think Duskblade 13 is also very overrated. While the potential damage is high its not ridiculously high and the other trick I've heard is to put the whole party tied together with a Whip and you can cast touch buff spells on your whole party. I still don't think that is worth 10 character levels.

There is a real dirth of decent Touch Spells out there anyway. I've alwasy seen Duskblade 3 as the break away point and Duskblade 5 only if you need 2nd level spells to get into a prestige class.

[gkathellar]

There is a real dirth of decent Touch Spells out there anyway. I've alwasy seen Duskblade 3 as the break away point and Duskblade 5 only if you need 2nd level spells to get into a prestige class.

This is why Enlightened Fist 7 is so nice for a Duskblade.

[hex0]

I'm going to stay stick to Duskblade 13 as well.

Not sure if you can do this, but Duskblade 13/Trickster Spellthief 1/Abjurant Champion 1/(Spontaneous/Spontaneous) UM 5 works nice as well.

Though your option 1 is in the same vein and it is what I would reccomend.

[Phenotype]

True. But you can definitely make something workable along the lines of:
Duskblade 3/Wizard 4/Abjurant Champion 5/<Full CL 3/4 BA> 8
(add a Spellsword dip, if you're cool with that; leave it out if you aren't)

It loses the full attacks and can lag a bit in ECL 4-7, but you can get around that with silliness like Abrupt Jaunt. And when it matures, you can get all the delicious Wizard touch spells like Bestow Curse, Combust, Shivering Touch and Irresistable Dance, as well as an improved capacity to stack metamagic on them (which can make even things on the Duskblade list like Touch of Idiocy start to be scary).

This might be a newbie question, but how do you use Wizard spells as a Duskblade? I was pretty sure the Armored Casting only applied to Duskblade spells.

This is kinda related, too: What's the best way to get Shield on the Duskblade list for Abjurant Champion? I didn't think going Wizard was the answer.

[dextercorvia]

This might be a newbie question, but how do you use Wizard spells as a Duskblade? I was pretty sure the Armored Casting only applied to Duskblade spells.

This is kinda related, too: What's the best way to get Shield on the Duskblade list for Abjurant Champion? I didn't think going Wizard was the answer.

It does. If you are Gishing with Abjurant Champion, however, you don't care. You can get some light armor with 0%ASF to put your Armor Crystals and special properties on. For everything else, there's greater luminous armor.

The best way to get shield on your list is to ask your DM. It's a reasonable request, he might just say sure (or he might ask you to drop something else). If he says no, then ask if you can spend a feat (Extra Spell*, or maybe a custom Bloodline) on it. Failing that, you'll have to spend a casting level on it (Wyrm Wizard, Recaster).

*note, I'm not claiming that this is RAW legal, and I'm not itching for this fight. I'm just saying that if his DM doesn't want to give him shield for free, this is the next offer that I'd make.

[Snowbluff]

ok this one is kind of not convoluted and ur dm might not let it work but according to rules loopholes it does.

Duskblade 13 to get the arcane channeling feature for full attacks


the rest in Totemist (for Girallon Arms) and Soulcaster to get more attacks and as for Empower and Easy MM: Empower are nice, especially Shocking Grasp and Vampiric Touch, you 2 main touch/channeled spells.

Duskblade pimped

Fixed that for you.

[Myth]

Sigh... A Cloistered Cleric with these stats would be a much better choice. Travel/Knowledge devotion, DMM persist, etc. etc.

I personally dislike the Duskblade and Hexblade "gish in a can" classes. You can do better with a Sorcadin or with a a Wizard/Dragonslayer 1/Spellsword/ACh etc.if you like heavy armour.

But gishes in the higher levels end up casting more than swinging sticks. A Cleric can do both. Better.

[Snowbluff]

Sigh... A Cloistered Cleric with these stats would be a much better choice. Travel/Knowledge devotion, DMM persist, etc. etc.

I personally dislike the Duskblade and Hexblade "gish in a can" classes. You can do better with a Sorcadin or with a a Wizard/Dragonslayer 1/Spellsword/ACh etc.if you like heavy armour.

But gishes in the higher levels end up casting more than swinging sticks. A Cleric can do both. Better.

This defeats the purpose of the exercise. Hexblades suck real hard, but Duskblade are a nice, solid T3. It's much better balanced, and the standard Sorcadin is better off just casting it's 9th rather than actually relying on its gish traits.

Also, you forgot Wizard/Swiftblade/AbjChamp :P

[Talionis]

Also, you forgot Wizard/Swiftblade/AbjChamp :P

How many caster levels do you lose with swift blade. I think you still get 9th level spells with that build.

[Talionis]

Also, you forgot Wizard/Swiftblade/AbjChamp :P

How many caster levels do you lose with swift blade. I think you still get 9th level spells with that build.

[Snowbluff]

How many caster levels do you lose with swift blade. I think you still get 9th level spells with that build.

Only take 9 in Swiftblade, you'll still get 9ths. Get your extra action and some (Ex) abilities tied to a now (Ex) Haste effect (Casting it is still a spell). It really does a good job consolidating a bunch of spells you should have up anyway (Blur, Blink, Haste, gets extra movement, etc.)