Zinc Saucier Optimisation Challenge 3: Crouching Rakshasa Hidden Wyrm

[motoko's ghost]

Welcome one and all to the third zinc saucier challenge, where playgrounders come to test their skill in the art of beautiful and bizarre (and bizarrely beautiful:smallwink:) builds.

The challenge? To come up with a build that has the same abilities and feel as the secret ingredient WITHOUT actually using it!

For the third challenge get ready to speed out finger food as its the Player's handbook's Monk

Our challengers will have 2 weeks to build a complete build from lvs 1-20 using a 32 point buy and all official 3.5 material(excluding dragon magazine, but including any WOTC online enhancements) with the abilities and feel of a Monk without actually using any levels in it.
Entries Must be submitted by 7th March 5:00PM GMT

Contestants will be judged and awarded a score out of 5 in each of 5 categories;

* Innovation (Uniqueness in character concept, race, class, etc)
* Power (How powerful and versatile it is compared to the base class)
* Elegance (What can only be described as how well the build "flows", i.e not using lots of 1-2lv dips, sacrificing flavour for power or using flaws)
* Fluff (How well the characters back-stories and classes mesh)
* Ingredient (How well the build captures the abilities and feel of the base class)


Presentation would be best in the style of how the iron chef does their presentations, however any style is allowed so long as it is clear on how the build was made.

Please do not post details of your build on the board before it is ready, so as not to spoil the surprise for others.
Sauciers can submit as many builds as they want but please dont use leadership, as we dont want to overfeed the judges:smalltongue:


Also it comes with double prize money.:smallbiggrin:

Previous challenges;
Soulknife (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=225187)
Bard (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229736)

[kulosle]

Oh this is going to be exciting. I have an idea for a build already I hope it works out. Unlike last time, I've got all the time in the world for this challenge.

[bungo_underhill]

I might give this a try.

Just for clarification - is unearthed arcana stuff allowed or not?

Thanks!

[motoko's ghost]

I might give this a try.

Just for clarification - is unearthed arcana stuff allowed or not?

Thanks!

Hmmm...I'm going to say the class variants but thats about it, just for the ease of the judges.

So SA fighter and urban ranger and so on but not DR armor or metamagic components.

[The Underlord]

I would have posted earlier, but I was busy. I think I'll compete this time, I have a build idea going.

[Howler Dagger]

Can I judge this time? I was going to enter if you were doing assassin, but monk, you did!

[motoko's ghost]

Can I judge this time? I was going to enter if you were doing assassin, but monk, you did!

Sure I'll PM you the builds as they arrive, and dont worry Assassin maybe next:smallwink:

[Baldin]

Eey,

I would like to give this a shot, however i wanted to ask if the Magic Item compendium is open, and in particulair the option to enchant +to ability score on other items (such as Shirt with +6 Con etc)

Cheers
Baldin

[motoko's ghost]

Eey,

I would like to give this a shot, however i wanted to ask if the Magic Item compendium is open, and in particulair the option to enchant +to ability score on other items (such as Shirt with +6 Con etc)

Cheers
Baldin

Sure, I'm pretty sure it's come up in previous builds in these contests before so there shouldn't really be a problem with it

[Novawurmson]

I think I'll submit a Swordsage.

[motoko's ghost]

I think I'll submit a Swordsage.

Unless you do something tricky with it you'll more than likely tank your innovation score

[Novawurmson]

Blue generally indicates sarcasm. :smallsmile:

[motoko's ghost]

Blue generally indicates sarcasm. :smallsmile:

I only remembered that after the fact:smallredface:

[The Underlord]

Actually, I think I'm going to judge, unless something changes in my schedule.

[motoko's ghost]

Actually, I think I'm going to judge, unless something changes in my schedule.

Okay I'll put you down for judging

[kulosle]

Question, is 3.0 material allowed? what if its been updated? what if those updates are in dragon mags or web enhancements?

[Baldin]

Eey i got 1 more question about the wealth. I took WBL and googled it for lvl 20 and came up woth 760,000 is this correct?

cheers
baldin

[Baldin]

Here are the general rules from the Iron chef where the rules of this challenge are based on http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233346 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=233346)

[Baldin]

eey

I got 1 more question, how do i have to submit my char. Do i need to message you my build and all or do i have to post it to the forum myself. Do i have to put it into the table with spoilers etc if i have to message you?

Thanks
Baldin

[The Underlord]

I'm working on a build, so don't pm the entries to me. If I don't submit, I'll judge(sorry about the flip-flopping)

[Z3ro]

I'm very interested in this contest, but I've got a couple quick questions:

1) Who do we submit finished builds to?

2) I see many people asking about WBL and items. In iron chef we typically just leave the items out except essentials; are we full stating out our items(I only ask because spending all that gold at 20th level is tedious).

[motoko's ghost]

eey

I got 1 more question, how do i have to submit my char. Do i need to message you my build and all or do i have to post it to the forum myself. Do i have to put it into the table with spoilers etc if i have to message you?

Thanks
Baldin

You message it to me(so no-one knows who made it untill the end of the contest), and yes please at least use spoiler tags

@The underlord: Okay I'll take you off the list of judges unless I dont get a build from you.

@Kulosle: I guess so? I'm not entirely sure(working off Iron chef's formula, I think they just banned that stuff because of relative obscurity and lack of playtesting/balance) Yeah I guess thats OK, as long as people dont go nuts with it.

@Z3ro: you submit them to me, so far most people haven't really listed out too much in the way of equipment(you can include it if you want to but I will ignore it if it's a 3-page wall of text)

[Z3ro]

@Z3ro: you submit them to me, so far most people haven't really listed out too much in the way of equipment(you can include it if you want to but I will ignore it if it's a 3-page wall of text)

Then I'm in.:smallbiggrin:

[deuxhero]

I'm assuming Unarmed Swordsage 20 isn't allowed?

[motoko's ghost]

I think I'll submit a Swordsage.Unless you do something tricky with it you'll more than likely tank your innovation score

Guess:smalltongue:

I'm not saying you cant do it, but unless you do something really innovative with it it probably wont do all that well

[Randomguy]

I had an idea within a few minutes of reading this thread, so I might as well sign up as not to let my procrastination go to waste. :smallsmile:

[Vortling]

I'll have to try my hand at this. I had been wondering how many ways one could play a monk without any monk at all. Are people allowed to enter more than one submission?

[Hand_of_Vecna]

The funny thing is if rated honestly a unarmed swordsage 20 with well picked fats and manuevers should get scores of:

Innovation 1 (or 0 if allowed): Minor Variance of a well known build.
Power 5 : Far stronger than monk, could easily be the MVP in a party with no fullcasters.
Elegance 5 : No dips no classes with their fluff largely ignored, masterful. Also you restricted yourself to a small number of well known sources. I wish I could give you a 6.
Fluff 5 : If you sent this build back in time and put it in the 3.5 player's handbook marked as Monk I'd not only accept it but, sing it's praises on the mountain tops.
Ingredient 5 : Feels just like a Monk only with a few extra abilities that honestly make it feel more Monk like than Monk. It even has Wis to AC and a feat that replicates Flurry of Blows.

and by comparison would cap all other builds at 4.5 in the lower 4 categories.

[kulosle]

I once did a challenge for skill optimization and I made a rule that any build that scored a 0 in any category was disqualified for that very reason.

[motoko's ghost]

I'll have to try my hand at this. I had been wondering how many ways one could play a monk without any monk at all. Are people allowed to enter more than one submission?

Yes, you can submit more than 1

[Vortling]

Yes, you can submit more than 1

Excellent. Of course that means more work to realize all my concepts but oh well.

[motoko's ghost]

Just got the first build in, SheepInDisguise you should be getting it soon.

Also @ hand_of_vecna; an unarmed swordsage20 wouldn't score that well, there are much stronger,fluffier ways of doing this.

[Howler Dagger]

Received it!

Also, if you did unarmed swordsage I would give a negative 25 in your innovation:smallwink:

[motoko's ghost]

Received it!

Also, if you did unarmed swordsage I would give a negative 25 in your innovation:smallwink:

Yeah, you can use ToB but you will need to be creative with it, as that's where most of the score comes from.

[The Underlord]

Power went out, destroying my build, so I'm deciding definitely on judging

[motoko's ghost]

Power went out, destroying my build, so I'm deciding definitely on judging

Ok, I'll send you a copy of the first build.

[motoko's ghost]

Ok second build is on-route to the judges.

Also does anyone know someone who can do the trophies, I cant use the same person as last time.

[The Underlord]

We could put up a request thread in the Arts and Craft forums.

[motoko's ghost]

Okay, request is here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=234945)

[Randomguy]

Unfortunately, due to a large amount of upcomming projects and tests, I probably won't be able to finish by builds in time for the deadline. Sorry. :smallfrown:

[motoko's ghost]

Unfortunately, due to a large amount of upcomming projects and tests, I probably won't be able to finish by builds in time for the deadline. Sorry. :smallfrown:

Sorry to hear that :smallfrown:

Okay we've had 4 builds submitted so far and I think we've got roughly 12-ish hours till the deadline, we've had some nice builds so far so this should be fun.

If I dont post right at 5PM GMT ddont worry, IRL sometimes I can't get access at some hours

[mattie_p]

Total newbie here, greetings and salutations. Just pm'd a build. Never done this before, but I hope you enjoy.

[motoko's ghost]

Okay,here we go!

Laya Highleaf is not a monk

The Build:
TN Human Female Fighter 4 Cleric 2 FotF 3 Sacred Fist 10 Contemplative 1

Character Sheets
Unbuffed: Sheet (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=373855)
Buffed: Sheet (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=373984)

Attributes

32 point buy
Str: 13
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 13
Wis: 16
Cha: 10

After levelup:
Str: 14(+1 lvl 4)
Dex: 12
Con: 14
Int: 13
Wis: 20 (+1 level 8, 12, 16, 20)
Cha: 10

With Items:
Str: 18
Dex: 22 (+6 Gloves of Dex)
Con: 24 (+6 Shirt of Health)
Int: 13
Wis: 30 (+6 Headband of Wisdom
Cha: 10


Level up Table

Laya is not a monk
{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|Fighter 1|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+0|Knowledge Religion 4, Survival 4, Handle Animal 4, Concentration 4|Able Learner Power Attack Improved Unarmed Strike|

2nd|Fighter 2|
+2|
+3|
+0|
+0|Knowledge Religion 5, Survival 5, Handle Animal 5, Concentration 5|Combat Reflexes|

3rd|Fighter 3|
+3|
+3|
+1|
+1|Knowledge Religion 6, Handle Animal 6, Concentration 6, Tumble 1|Great Fortitude|

4th|Fighter 4|
+4|
+4|
+1|
+1|Knowledge Religion 7, Handle Animal 7, Concentration 7, Tumble 2|Combat Expertise|+1 strength

5th|Cleric 1|
+4|
+6|
+2|
+4|Knowledge Religion 8, Handle Animal 8, Concentration 8, Tumble 3||Turn Undead

6th|Fist of the Forest 1|
+5|
+8|
+3|
+3|Handle Animal 9, Concentration 9, Tumble 4, Spellcraft 1|Combat Casting|AC bonus Fast Movement Feral Trance 1/day Primal Living Unarmed Damage 1d8

7th|Fist of the Forest 2|
+6/+1|
+9|
+4|
+3|Concentration 10, Tumble 5, Spellcraft 2, Use Magic Device 1||Uncanny Dodge Untamed Strike

8th|Fist of the Forest 3|
+7/+2|
+9|
+4|
+4|Concentration 11, Tumble 6, Spellcraft 3, Use Magic Device 2||Feral Trance 2/day Scent +1 wisdom

9th|Cleric 2|
+8/+3|
+10|
+4|
+5|Concentration 12, Tumble 7, Spellcraft 4, Use Magic Device 3|Stunning Fist|

10th|Sacred Fist 1|
++9/+4|
+12|
+6|
+5|Concentration 13, Tumble 8, Spellcraft 6, Use Magic Device 5||AC +1 movement speed +0 Unarmed Damage

11th|Sacred Fist 2|
+10/+5|
+13|
+7|
+5|Concentration 14, Tumble 9, Spellcraft 8, Use Magic Device 7||

12th|Sacred Fist 3|
+11/+6/+1|
+13|
+7|
+6|Concentration 15, Tumble 10, Spellcraft 10, Use Magic Device 9|Improved Trip|AC +1 movement speed +10 +1 wisdom

13th|Sacred Fist 4|
+12/+7/+2|
+14|
+8|
+6|Concentration 16, Tumble 11, Spellcraft 12, Use Magic Device 11||Sacred Flames 1/day

14th|Sacred Fist 5|
+13/+8/+3|
+14|
+8|
+6|Concentration 17, Tumble 12, Spellcraft 14, Use Magic Device 13||AC +2 movement speed +10

15th|Sacred Fist 6|
+14/+9/+4|
+15|
+8|
+7|Concentration 17, Tumble 12, Spellcraft 14, Use Magic Device 13|Practiced Spell caster|AC +2 movement speed +20 Blindsense 10ft

16th|Sacred Fist 7|
+15/+10/+5|
+15|
+8|
+7|Concentration 19, Spellcraft 18, Use Magic Device 18||+1 wisdom

17th|Sacred Fist 8|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+16|
+9|
+8|Concentration 20, Tumble 14, Spellcraft 20, Use Magic Device 20||AC +2 movement speed +30 Sacred Flames 2/day

18th|Sacred Fist 9|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+16|
+9|
+9|Concentration 21, Tumble 17, Spellcraft 21, Use Magic Device 21|Animal Devotion|

19th|Sacred Fist 10|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+17|
+10|
+9|Concentration 22, Tumble 20, Spellcraft 22, Use Magic Device 22||AC +3 movement speed +30 Inner Armor

20th|Contemplative 1|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+17|
+10|
+11|Concentration 23, Tumble 21, Spellcraft 23, Use Magic Device 23||Bonus Domain(earth) Divine Health[/table]


Items
Items:
Monks Belt 13000GP
Bracers of armor +8 64000 GP
Amulet of Natural attacks(+5)50000 GP
Headband of Wisdom +6 36000 GP
Gloves of Dexterity +6 36000 GP
Shirt of Health +6 36000 GP
Cloak of DIsplacement, Major 50000 GP
Tome of Understanding +4 110,000 GP
Manual of bodily health +4 110,000 GP
Manual of quickness of action +4 110,000 GP
Manual of Gainful Exercise +4 110,00 GP
Winged Boots 16000 GP
Ring of Counterspells 5000 GP
Mithral Buckler 1,150 GP
Crystal mask of mindarmor 10000 GP
Diamond dust for Stoneskin 2500 GP
350 GP

The buildup
Laya began her life as a fighter and came in touch with the holy powers of Obad-Hai and became a cleric. While living in exile for some time to get to learn herself better she became a fist of the forest and thereby gaining constitution to AC. After this she advanced in Sacred Fist to gain benefits to her melee and spellcasting. After being done with this she advanced as a Contemplative to Obad-Hai.
She uses her spells to make herself an even stronger foe.


Background

Laya was born at a small village near the Vesve, a massive forest at the edge of Furyondy, the name long forgotten to her. When she was but a youth of nearly 4 year old a group of orcs raided the village she and her perants lived in. In the rampage of blood and gore her father managed to hold of a group of orcs long enough for her mother to escape with her into the Vesve. Though her father was no warrior and quickly felt to the blades of the orcs.

Her mother ran as hard as she could but knew she wouldnt make it and hid Laya at the side of the road in a hollow tree hoping she would live. No more then 50 feet from where her mother hid her the orcs shot her down with their longbows and coninued to pillage the village burning it to the ground.

Laya was left in the hollow tree, scared and cying and ran into the forst hoping to leave the orcs behind. She soon ran into a big brown bear. Paralized in fear the bear came to her and changed into an elf. The elf told her to not be scared and that he would protect her. His name was Kelnoc, a druid of the elven sociaty in the Vesve.

And so Laya grew up among the elves, learning their skills and habits and their language and even began to worship their god Obad-Hai. When she was 16 years old she joined the rangers, who protected the forest against intruders learning to fight without weapons.

When she reached her 21th birthday she was called forth by Kelnoc who told her he had seen her devotion to the forest and Obad-hai and together they work onto opening her mind and soul to Obad-hai and soon she was blessed with the holy powers of a cleric of the forest.

At the age of 23 she went into the woods on her own living in a temorary exile to learn about herself and her place in life. Here she trained and lived with the animals of the forst and attuned to them.

When she was 24 the Vesve was attacked by a vast number of orcs, ogres and demons from the north, the lands of Iuz the Evil. They wanted to attack Furyondy and for that had to cut through the forest.
Years passed by fighting against the armies of Iuz and she became one of the most powerfull among her people.

At one point during the was she had to face a giant demon on her own, after he had killed her companions. In this epic battle she menaged to summon forth powers unknown to her before. After what seemed an eternity she slew her foe.

Now 28 years old she roams the forest protecting her people.

Thought behind Laya
First of i want to say that as a cleric people usualy say DMM: Peristant spell!. Well i do not like DMM because in my opinion a cleric is strong enough as it is and DMM is just sick, besides that the cleric is just something extra that Laya had bestowed upon her and is not her main focus.

I could ofc make her DMM etc and she might be stronger but i just think this build suits her best.

The build is mostly focused on being a tanky monk that protects her people.

I took able learner to be able to freely spend Skill points in what i needed for Presige classes and for skills like tumble, Use magic Divice etc.

I would have taken Improved natural attacks but thought it more important for her to take practiced spellcasting and keep combat expertise and Improved trip.

Also i know Strength is important so, why do i not have a +6 item for it. Laya is not a standard adventurer and doesn't seek out danger. She only protects the forst. Now She has Divine Power to provide the +6 str enchantement when she needs it.

Further more she uses Divine Power and Righteous might to be better at tripping.




Valen

Azuran
32 Point Buy
Str 15 Dex 14 Con 16 Int 10 Wis 12 Cha 10
(1st point to str, all remainin stat points to con)
The Build
{table=head]Level|Class|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Skills|Feats|Class Features|Essentia

1st|Law Incarnate|
+0|
+2|
+0|
+2|Concetration 4, Knowledge Religion 4 |Expand Soulmeld Capacity, Midnight Dodge|Aura, Detect Opposition|
3

2nd|Incarnate|
+1|
+3|
+0|
+3|Concentration 1, Knowledge Religion 1||Chakra Bind (Crown)|
4

3rd|Incarnate|
+1|
+3|
+1|
+3| Concentration 1, Knowledge Religion 1|Shape Soulmeld (Mauling Guantlets)|Expand Soulmeld Capacity +1, Incarnum Radiance 1/day|
5

4th|Incarnate|
+2|
+4|
+1|
+4| Concentration 1, Knowledge Religion 1||Chakra Bind (Feet, Hands)|
6

5th|Totemist|
+2|
+6|
+3|
+4|Concentration 1 Listen 1 Spot 1 Swim 1||Wild Empathy|
7

6th|Totemist|
+3|
+7|
+4|
+4| Concentration 1 Listen 1 Spot 1 Swim 1|Bonus Essentia|Totem Chakra Bind (+1 capacity)|
9

7th|Incarnate|
+3|
+7|
+4|
+4| Concentration 1, Knowledge Religion 1||Rapid Meldshaping 1/day|
10

8th|Incarnate|
+4|
+8|
+5|
+5| Concentration 1, Knowledge Religion 1|||
11

9th|Incarnate|
+4|
+8|
+5|
+5| Concentration 1, Knowledge Religion 1|Superior Unarmed Strike|Share Incarnum Radiance|
12

10th|Incarnate|
+5|
+9|
+5|
+6| Concentration 1, Knowledge Religion 1||Incarnum Radiance 2/day|
13

11th|Incarnate|
+5|
+9|
+6|
+6| Concentration 1, Knowledge Religion 1||Chakra Binds (arms, brow, shoulders)|
14

12th|Totemist|
+6|
+9|
+6|
+7| Concentration 1 Listen 1 Spot 1 Swim 1|Snap Kick|Totem’s Protection|
14

13th|Totemist|
+7|
+10|
+7|
+7| Concentration 1 Listen 1 Spot 1 Swim 1|||
15

14th|Incarnate|
+7|
+11|
+7|
+8| Concentration 1, Knowledge Religion 1|||
16

15th|Incarnate|
+8|
+11|
+7|
+8| Concentration 1, Knowledge Religion 1|Double Bind (Hands)|Rapid Meldshaping 2/day|
17

16th|Incarnate|
+8|
+12|
+8|
+9| Concentration 1, Knowledge Religion 1|||
18

17th|Incarnate|
+9|
+12|
+8|
+9| Concentration 1, Knowledge Religion 1||Incarnum Radiance 3/day|
19

18th|Incarnate|
+10|
+13|
+8|
+10| Concentration 1, Knowledge Religion 1|Sapphire Sprint|Chakra Bind (throat, waist)|
21

19th|Incarnate|
+10|
+13|
+9|
+10| Concentration 1, Knowledge Religion 1||Expand Soulmeld Capacity (+2)|
23

20th|Incarnate|
+11|
+14|
+9|
+11| Concentration 1, Knowledge Religion 1||Chakra Bind (heart)|
25[/table]


General build notes:
The purpose of this competition was to emulate the monk and it’s abilities as close as possible, without using the monk class. We have that in a general sense; this character fights unarmed, primarily using his fists, along with a variety of seemingly supernatural abilities, which are derived from a deep focus and internal discipline.

Besides the general, let’s look at the specific abilities a monk has, and how Valen stacks up to them:
Unarmed Strike: The biggest single feature in the monk class, and why a lot of people play them. A character doesn’t emulate a monk very well if they can’t get this right. Fortunately, Valen delivers. Starting at fourth level, we have an unarmed attack dealing 1d3+8 damage (before str or other boosts like magic fang or bluesteel bracers), thanks to the damage boost from mauling gauntlets. This scales very well as Valen levels, topping out at 2d6+18 before other boosts, effectively blowing away a monk’s unarmed damage of a mere 2d10.
Armor boosts: The classic monk fights unarmored. Valen is capable of fighting unarmored as well, with boosts coming from a variety of soulmelds, like wormtail belt for a big natural armor boost, crystal helm for a deflection bonus, and cerullian dodge for a nice dodge bonus. Valen will probably wear light armor at very high levels, more for the abilities that can be enchanted into it (and the fact that it doesn’t take up a chakra) than the armor bonus.
Speed Boost: Monks are faster than normal characters, and Valen is no exception. Using the cerulean sandals, Valen is able to invest essentia into increasing his base speed, up to a rate of +40 to base speed at level 18 (this soulmeld also lets you walk on water, something monks should be able to do). The Sapphire sprint feat, at level 18, performs much the same function, though that feat is taken more for the bonus essentia.
Grappling: Many monks go the grappling route, taking the improved grappling feat at level one. In this build, the levels of totemist give Valen garillion arms, which even when not bound to the totem chakra give a huge bonus to grappling, easily enabling grappling even when facing larger opponents, something the monk can’t match.
Abundant Step: One of the most interesting quasi-magical abilities of the monk, they can translate themselves by dimensional door once a day. Valen, thanks to the blink shirt soulmeld usually bound to the totem chackra, lets Valen do this whenever he wants, a big improvement to the monk’s classic ability.
Spell Resistance: Of all the base classes, the monk is the only one that gets spell resistance as part of its class features. The only problem is that the monk’s spell resistance is static; it goes up by level and is very difficult to buff. Valen, through the spellward shirt soulmeld, has spell resistance that scales as he needs it, starting at level 1, topping out at SR36 at level 18, much higher than the monks. And when facing non-spellcasters, he shuffles the essentia to other soulmelds, freeing up resources that are dedicated for a monk.
Damage Reduction: Like spell resistance, the monk gets damage reduction, albeit at 20th level. Valen also gets damage reduction, through astral vampbraces or adamant pauldrons, but his starts at first level, and tops out at 18/magic at 18th level if he really needs it.

Besides classic monk abilities, Valen, being a meldshaper, has plenty of options unavailable to a traditional monk. As mentioned, he can walk on water, fly, and shroud himself in fire. Besides all that, he can also make a great skill monkey by shifting some of his soulmelds away from monk abilities into things like mage spectacles to give bonuses to skills like use magic device.


Level Progression:
Levels 1-4
Early on, Valen takes levels in Law Incarnate, particularly appropriate given the Lawful requirement of the monk class. With the variety of soulmelds available, you have several different combat options available, either ranged or close combat. You’ll need to use Incarnate weapon before level four when unarmed combat comes online. Your soulmelds and high con make you very tough to kill, making sure you live to see higher levels.

Levels 6-8The levels of totemist are important here, giving us more defense (wormtail belt is great for natural armor), blink shirt for teleporting around, and garillion arms for grappling. They also give us a bab boost, making sure we have a third attack at higher levels. The biggest decision you’ll have to face is that you can’t shape spellward shirt and blink shirt at the same time, though you can use rapid meldshaping to change them up if need be.


Levels 9-20More incarnate levels simply boost up the goodness of our monk analogue. Snap kick gives us a mock flurry of blows, but incarnate avatar actually gives us a chance to hit our targets. Despite a lower bab than the monk (11-15), Valen actually has a higher to hit with incarnate avatar figured in (incarnate avatar can give a +8 bonus, so we end up 19-15 in to hit bonus). The focus on con gives us higher hit points than a monk, despite lower HD. And because we use Incarnum, we have lots of options available to us. Spellward shirt gives us good spell resistance if we’re facing casters, we can pump up armor class and damage reduction versus melee opponents, we can even fly (something monks should be able to do but can’t) via airstep sandals (particularly appropriate imagery given the wuxia influence on monks). Double bind (hands) lets us bind mauling gauntlets (for damage) and sphinx claws (for pounce), letting us move and full attack in the same round, preserving mobility and damage dealing. Not only are we everything monks are, we’re everything they should be.


Sources
Magic of Incarnum
Tome of Battle



Mind over Matter

Human Factotum 16/Egoist 4

The Backstory

I envisioned this character as a wanderer who doesn't know what they're looking for. They travel from monastery to guildhall, guildhall to temple, and temple to mercenary company. Each place they stop they find many things. They pick up some of them along the way, but in the end none of them are what they'd hoped to find. A perpetual wanderer. Wandering because they are the lost of the lost. They are the epitome of "I'll know it when I see it" and they haven't seen it yet. So they continue to wander.


The Build

Mind over Matter
{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|Factotum 1|
+0|
+0|
+2|
+0|Skills|Improved Unarmed Strike, Font of Inspiration|Inspiration, Cunning Knowledge, Cunning insight, trapfinding

2nd|Egoist 1|
+0|
+0|
+2|
+2|Skills|Practiced Manifester|Psionics

3rd|Factotum 2|
+1|
+0|
+3|
+2|Skills|Font of Inspiration|Arcane Dilettante (1 Spell)

4th|Factotum 3|
+2|
+1|
+3|
+3|Skills||Brains over Brawn, Cunning Defense

5th|Factotum 4|
+3|
+1|
+4|
+3|Skills||Arcane Dilettante (2 Spells), Cunning Strike

6th|Factotum 5|
+3|
+1|
+4|
+3|Skills|Superior Unarmed Strike|Opportunistic Piety

7th|Factotum 6|
+4|
+2|
+5|
+4|Skills||

8th|Factotum 7|
+5|
+2|
+5|
+4|Skills||Arcane Dilettante (3 Spells)

9th|Factotum 8|
+6/+1|
+2|
+6|
+4|Skills|Font of Inspiration|Cunning Surge

10th|Factotum 9|
+6/+1|
+3|
+6|
+5|Skills||Arcane Dilettante (4 Spells)

11th|Factotum 10|
+7/+2|
+3|
+7|
+5|Skills||Opportunistic Piety (+1 use)

12th|Factotum 11|
+8/+3|
+3|
+7|
+5|Skills|Font of Inspiration|Cunning Breach

13th|Factotum 12|
+9/+4|
+4|
+8|
+6|Skills||Arcane Dilettante (5 Spells)

14th|Factotum 13|
+9/+4|
+4|
+8|
+6|Skills||Cunning Dodge

15th|Factotum 14|
+10/+5|
+4|
+9|
+6|Skills|Font of Inspiration|Arcane Dilettante (6 Spells)

16th|Factotum 15|
+11/+6/+1|
+5|
+9|
+7|Skills||Opportunistic Piety (+1 use)

17th|Factotum 16|
+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+10|
+7|Skills||Improved Cunning Defense

18th|Egoist 2|
+13/+8/+3|
+5|
+10|
+8|Skills|Font of Inspiration|

19th|Egoist 3|
+13/+8/+3|
+6|
+11|
+8|Skills||

20th|Egoist 4|
+14/+9/+4|
+6|
+11|
+9|Skills||[/table]


The Abilities

PP: 35
Powers: Catfall, Empty Mind, Inertial Armor, Skate, Defensive Precognition, Offensive Precognition, Offensive Prescience, Body Equilibrium, Psionic Tongues

Arcane Diletantte Spells: Superior Resistance, Teleport, Greater Dimension Door, Greater Mighty Wallop, Haste, Feather Fall

Base Ability Scores:
Str 12, Dex 10, Con 16, Int 17, Wis 10, Cha 9

Final ability Scores: Str 12, Dex 10, Con 22, Int 28, Wis 10, Cha 9
Items: Headband of Intellect +6, Necklace of Natural Attacks +5 and +6 Con (using MiC rules for stacking)

Skill ranks: Balance 5, Climb 19, Concentration 19, Escape Artist 19, Hide 19, Knowledge (Arcane) 19, Listen 19, Move Silently 19, Spot 19, Tumble 19
Str, Dex and Int based skills all have Int added to them and can add an additional 16 (factotum level) to any skill once per day

Final Unarmed Strike: +20/+15/+10 (+9 with cunning insight) 8d6+6 (+9 with cunning insight)

The Comparison

Monk Class abilities and how they are duplicated

Unarmed Strike: Between Superior unarmed strike and Greater Mighty unarmed strike damage reaches 8d6. This can be increased even further with cunning insight and cunning strike. Cunning insight adds Int to attack and damage if needed. If more attack power is needed, Offensive Precognition and Offensive Prescience are available.

AC Bonus: Inertial Armor at earlier levels and later Cunning Defense and Improved Cunning defense added as well

Bonus Feats: Brains over Brawn adds Int to any combat maneuver (grapple, trip, disarm)

Flurry of Blows: Cunning Surge may not be usable as often, but it allows for full attacks after a move (combos well with haste), improved action in surprise rounds, self buffing before engaging enemies, and can be used with a wider variety of weapons.

Evasion: Cunning Dodge. Most reflex save effects do hp damage and any more than 1 hp means you're good to go. Between cunning insight, defensive precognition, and superior resistance, failing saves should be on the low side

Fast Movement: Haste and Skate

Still Mind: Empty Mind, admittedly more resource intensive

Ki Strike: Cunning Breach allows for overcoming any damage reduction, not just magic, lawful, and adamantine

Slow Fall: Catfall and Feather fall, does any more need to be said? Also with body equilibrium balancing on water, or a blade of grass is possible. Monk can only hope to do that on an epic balance check.

Purity of Body: Yeah, I got nothing here

Wholeness of Body: Opportunistic Piety heals much more. On the order of 3 times initially, with increases later on. It also show up earlier than for the monk.

Improved Evasion: See Evasion, but really I got nothing.

Diamond Soul: Ran out of spells to duplicate this.

Quivering Palm: I thought about using a touch spell for this. Flesh to stone works nicely and can be prepared more often.

Tongue of Sun and Moon: Psionic Tongues. Not always on, but 10 minutes per level with a caster level of 8 can cover a lot of ground.

Timeless Body, Empty Body, and Perfect Self: Sadly I admit defeat on these.


Summary: I didn't manage to duplicate some of the high level monk abilities however the unarmed combat power, abilities, and defenses of this entry make it a more capable contributor both in and out of combat than a monk.





Soul of the Law


Azurin Law Incarnate 20

The build

Soul of the Law
{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats

|Class Features

1st|Incarnate 1|
+0|
+2|
+0|
+2|Skills|Improved Unarmed Strike, Combat Reflexes

Reflexes|Aura, Detect Opposition

2nd|Incarnate 2|
+1|
+3|
+0|
+3|Skills||Chakra Bind(Crown)

3rd|Incarnate 3|
+1|
+3|
+1|
+3|Skills|Shape Soulmeld(Mauling Gauntlets)|

Expanded Soulmeld Capacity+1, Incarnum Radiance 1/day

4th|Incarnate 4|
+2|
+4|
+1|
+4|Skills||Chakra Binds(feet, hands)

5th|Incarnate 5|
+2|
+4|
+1|
+4|Skills||Rapid Meldshaping 1/day

6th|Incarnate 6|
+3|
+5|
+2|
+5|Skills|Superior Unarmed Strike|

7th|Incarnate 7|
+3|
+5|
+2|
+5|Skills||Share Incarnum Radiance

8th|Incarnate 8|
+4|
+6|
+2|
+6|Skills||Incarnum Radiance 2/day

9th|Incarnate 9|
+4|
+6|
+3|
+6|Skills|Double Chakra(Feet)|Chakra Binds

(arms, brow, houlders)

10th|Incarnate 10|
+5|
+7|
+3|
+7|Skills||

11th|Incarnate 11|
+5|
+7|
+3|
+7|Skills||Rapid Meldshaping 2/day

12th|Incarnate 12|
+6/+1|
+8|
+4|
+8|Skills|Snap Kick|

13th|Incarnate 13|
+6/+1|
+8|
+4|
+8|Skills||Incarnum Radiance 3/day

14th|Incarnate 14|
+7/+2|
+9|
+4|
+9|Skills||Chakra Binds(throat, waist)

15th|Incarnate 15|
+7/+2|
+9|
+5|
+9|Skills|Bonus Essentia|Expanded

Soulmeld Capacity+2

16th|Incarnate 16|
+8/+3|
+10|
+5|
+10|Skills||Chakra Bind(heart)

17th|Incarnate 17|
+8/+3|
+10|
+5|
+10|Skills||Rapid Meldshaping 3/day,

Share Incarnum Radiance (no fatigue)

18th|Incarnate 18|
+9/+4|
+11|
+6|
+11|Skills|Split Chakra (Throat)|

Incarnum Radiance 4/day

19th|Incarnate 19|
+9/+4|
+11|
+6|
+11|Skills||Chakra Bind(soul)

20th|Incarnate 20|
+10/+5|
+12|
+6|
+12|Skills||Perfect Meldshaper, True Incarnation[/table]

The abilities


Soulmelds: 10 (Feat for Mauling Guantlets)
Essentia: 29
Chakra binds: 5

Initial Ability Scores: Str 16, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 8

Final Ability Scores: Str 26, Dex 16, Con 22, Int 9, Wis 10, Cha 8

Belt of Giant's Strength, Necklace of Natural Attacks +5 and Amulet of Health +6 (combined using MiC stacking rules.)

Shaped Soulmelds

Impulse Boots (Bound to Feet), Cerulean Sandals (Bound to Feet), Crystal Helm (Crown), Mauling Gauntlets (Bound to Hands), Astral Vambraces

(Bound to Arms), Pauldrons of Health (Shoulders), Apparation Ribbon (Bound to Throat), Spellward Shirt (Heart), Incarnate Avatar (Soul),

Comparison to Monk Abilities


AC Bonus: Crystal Helm provides a better scaling bonus that stacks with armor. Impulse Boots provide Uncanny Dodge to avoid being rendered flatfooted and losing Dex to AC

Flurry of Blows: Snap Kick doesn't provide as many extra attacks but it can be used on a standard attack

Unarmed Strike: Unarmed Strike + Superior unarmed strike brings damage up to monk levels. Mauling gauntlets add 2x essentia invested to

damage. Astral Vambraces can grant Improved Natural Attack if needed

Bonus Feat: Astral Vambraces can grant one feat from a selection of Cleave, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Natural Attack, Power Attack,

Mobility, or the ability to trip as a free action on a hit. This can be switched each day.

Evasion: Granted by binding Impulse Boots

Fast Movement: +5' to land speed per essentia invested in Cerulean Sandals

Still Mind: Crystal Helm provides +2 to will saves against charms and compulsions

Ki Strike: Weapon treated as lawful due to True Incarnation

Purity of Body: Pauldrons of Health provide immunity to Disease, Sickened, and Nauseated

Abundant Step: Cerulean Sandals give up to 200' of dimension door that can be split up into as many as 20 10' increments

Diamond Soul: Spellward Shirt provides SR 5 + 4 per essentia invested. Can be lowered as a swift action if you're about to receive friendly buffs mid combat.

Empty Body: Apparation Ribbon turns you incorporeal for 1 + 1 rounds per essentia invested up to your meldshaper level rounds per day.

Perfect Self: True Incarnation turns you into an outsider. Astral Vambraces gives you 2 DR/magic + 2 per essentia invested and you can shape them at level 1




Quetz

Move like a snake. Strike like a snake. Reshape reality like a... snake.

Not a 100% complete build, but hits the relevant bits.

The Story:

For many centuries, the coatls have tried to guide humanoids to more just societies. For many centuries, they have achieved little. One young coatl suspected that this was because they didn't understand humanoids well enough. He vowed to spend an elf's lifetime disguised among them as a wandering monk. Furthermore, he restricted himself to things a humanoid monk could do, except in the most dire of circumstances. His name was Quetz. This is his story character sheet.


The Build:

Coautl
LA 7 / RHD 9 / Ninja 1 / Swiftblade 3
Feats:
sacred vow
vow of poverty
vow of purity
vow of abstenence
...

improved unarmed strike
superior unarmed strike
two weapon fighting
dodge
mobility

(yes there are two too many -- there are plenty of nonimpactful flaws).

The important thing to remember about coatls is that while they cast as 9th level sorcerers (11th level with swiftblade 3) they do so from the sorcerer or cleric lists.


How he pretends to be a monk:

{table=head]What a monk does|How Quetz does it
Unarmed Damage | superior unarmed strike + racial strength bonus
AC | ninja
speed boost | haste + swift surge (they stack)
improved grapple | improved grab
deflect arrows | protection from arrows
improved disarm | shatter
evasion |
flurry of blows | twf, haste
Still mind | racial wisdom bonus
Ki strike | Vow of Poverty (magic only)
slow fall | feather fall
Purity of body (immunity to disease) | vow of purity? remove disease
Wholeness of body | cure light wounds
Improved evasion |
Diamond body | vow of abstenence? neutralize poison
Abundant step | dimension door
Diamond soul | spell resistance (the spell)
Quivering palm | slight of hand + scrying + greater invisibility + teleport + slay living
Timeless body | outsiders don't age
tongue of the sun and moon | telepathy
Empty body | ethereal jaunt sla
Perfect self | already is an outsider[/table]

The only things that are completely missing are the evasions (though shatter as disarm is a large stretch, and instead of immunity to poison and disease he has good saves and cures as backup).

When it comes to charging into melee with nothing but his fists, Quetz should be about as effective as a 20th level human monk. The racial stat bonuses make up for a lot of things that are otherwise a little lower.




Qat - Female Thri-kreen LN Psychic Warrior 6 / Ninja 1 / Shou Disciple 4 / Elocutor 1 / Diamond Warrior 4

{table=head]Level|Class|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Skills|Feats|Class Features

1st|Thri-kreen Racial HD|
+1|
+0|
+2|
+2| Jump 4, Balance 4, Tumble 2 |Multi Attack|Racial base traits (40' speed, darkvision 60', +4 racial bonus to hide skill in arid terrain, immune to sleep, 4-limbs, natural armor +1)

2nd|Thri-kreen Racial HD|
+2|
+0|
+3|
+3| Jump 5, Balance 5, Concentration 1 |Deflect Arrows (racial bonus)|+30 racial bonus to jump, natural armor +2

3rd|Psychic Warrior 1 (city dweller variant) |
+2|
+2|
+3|
+3| Concentration 3, Tumble 4 | Improved Unarmed Strike, Expeditious Dodge | +1 power point, 1st Level power

4th|Thri-kreen LA|
+2|
+2|
+3|
+3| NA | NA | poison bite 1/day, manifest metaphysical claw 1/day, chameleon 3/day

5th|Psychic Warrior 2|
+3|
+3|
+3|
+3|Concentration 5, Tumble 6|Speed of Thought (50' speed)|2 points per day, 1st level PW power

6th|Thri-Kreen LA|
+3|
+3|
+3|
+3| NA | NA | +4 dex (racial), natural armor +3

7th|Psychic Warrior 3|
+4|
+3|
+4|
+4| Concentration 7, Jump 6, Tumble 7, |NA|4 points per day

8th|Psychic Warrior 4|
+5|
+4|
+4|
+4| Concentration 8, Jump 8, Tumble 8 |Weapon Focus(Unarmed Strike)|6 points per day, 2nd level PW power

9th|Psychic Warrior 5|
+5|
+4|
+4|
+4| Jump 9, Tumble 9, Climb 2 | Inertial Armor [Reserve* see notes]|8 points per day

10th|Psychic Warrior 6|
+6/+1|
+5|
+5|
+5| Jump 10, Tumble 10, Climb 4 |NA|12 pts per day

11th|Ninja 1|
+6/+1|
+5|
+7|
+5|Knowledge local (2), Tumble 11, Climb 5 |Psionic Charge|Ki power, sudden strike+1d6, trapfinding, Wis bonus to AC

12th|Shou Disciple 1|
+7/+2|
+7|
+9|
+5|Tumble 12, Climb 8|NA |Unarmed Strike 1d6

13th|Shou Disciple 2|
+8/+3|
+8|
+10|
+5|Tumble 13, Climb 11|Mobility| Unarmed Strike 1d8

14th|Shou Disciple 3|
+9/+4|
+8|
+10|
+6|Tumble 14, Climb 12, Escape Artist 2|Combat Expertise| Martial Flurry(light), Unarmed Strike 1d10

15th|Shou Disciple 4|
+10/+5|
+9|
+11|
+6|Tumble 15, Escape Artist 5|Spring Attack| Unarmed Strike 1d10

16th|Elocutor 1|
+10/+5|
+9|
+13|
+8|Tumble 16, Spot 7|Sidestep Charge|Scorn earth, 3rd level PW power, 16 pts per day

17th|Diamond Warrior 1|
+10/+5|
+11|
+15|
+10|Tumble 17, Balance 7, Climb 14|Improved Trip, Improved inertial armor | crystal mask, 20 pts per day, Unarmed Strike 1d10, +1BAB unarmed

18th|Diamond Warrior 2|
+11/+6/+1|
+12|
+16|
+11|Tumble 18, Balance 10, Climb 15| Speed of thought (60' speed)|Uncanny dodge, 24 pts per day, Unarmed Strike 1d10

19th|Diamond Warrior 3|
+12/+7/+2|
+12|
+16|
+11|Tumble 19, Balance 15| Improved inertial armor |28 points per day, 4th level PW power, Unarmed Strike 2d6

20th|Diamond Warrior 4|
+13/+8/+3|
+13|
+17|
+12|Tumble 20, Spot 12|Up the Walls, Speed of thought (70' speed)|Evasion, 36 pts per day, Unarmed Strike 2d6 [/table]



Stats-
Point Buy: Str 14, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 14, Cha 8
Racial Adjustments: Str 16, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 4
Levels: Str 16, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 18, Cha 4
Inherent (Tomes): Str 20, Dex 22, Con 18, Int 14, Wis 22, Cha 4
Item Enhancements: Str 26, Dex 28, Con 18, Int 14, Wis 28, Cha 4

Key Items-
Monks Belt of Giant Str +6 (enhanced per MIC)
Periapt of Wis +6
Dex Gloves +6
Amulet of Nat Armor +5
Psychoactive Skin of the Hero (+3 deflection AC (later enhanced to +5), +3 resistance to saves (later enhanced to +5), +3 bonus to attack rolls)
Tomes of Str, Dex, Con, and Wis +4

Tactics-
Don't stand still. Qat's speed, feats, and skills allow her to move over, around, through opponents. She manifests psionic lion's charge frequently to gain pounce, and ultimately hides in trees or cliffs, dropping down on opponents, charging with a full attack, and then running out of reach back up the walls. She has 3 iterative attacks at +26/+21/+16 for 2d8+8 (with monks belt), plus 4 additional natural attacks at +22/1d4+4 (13 BAB, -2 multi-attack). She can manifest expansion (augmented) when she is pressed hard, growing to size huge with increased damage from unarmed strikes and natural weapons at 4d8? and 1 d8 each. Her Armor class is 51 (10+nat+wis+dex+items+inertial armor) when she is moving around, 49 when moving less than 40 feet per turn, not that 2 AC makes that much difference.


Fluff-
Qat's pack of Thri-Kreen was raided by marauding goblin. Her family was killed before her eyes, her village destroyed. The survivors were kidnapped and taken back to play gladiator. They stuck together and learned from each other. When she escaped, she ran far away, to the far east and started to plot her revenge. She wanted to assassinate them secretly, but her burning desire for revenge gradually faded as she continued to pursue her martial arts and psionic training. She'll still happily kill those who destroyed her previous life (if she finds them), but generally she leaves well enough alone.



Metagame Notes-
Diamond Warrior is a 3.0 web enhancement (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20020927b) , which "may require some adjustments." (Incidentally, in Complete Psionics there is a guild called Diamond Knights, but it is not a prestige class. I consider Diamond Warrior a feasible prestige class for the purposes of this challenge.) Inertial Armor Feat is a pre-requisite, but in 3.5 is a manifesting power, not a feat. However, it is not out of line with other wizard/sorcerer reserve feats, and I have included it as a grandfathered feat in order to qualify for this class, as I include web enhancement Improved inertial armor. Also speed of thought typically does not stack, I just count it as +10 base speed (as a monk). Your mileage may vary. Also, Diamond warrior levels stack unarmed damage with monk, as does Shou Disciple, meaning they are equivalent. I have used diamond warrior unarmed damage as if starting the monk UA damage progression at the 2nd "1d10" level, or monk level 9. Thus at level 20, I have 2d6 (monk 13). Again, if monks belt stacks, which I assume it would, I progress to 2d8, or monk 18. Some flexibility is needed, and you might disagree. RAW are not exactly clear how monk UA damage stacks when there are no actual monk levels involved. This is my interpretation of it. Last thing, I did not include LA buy-off, as I wouldn't gain any levels based on the cost of the buy-off for a character with level 20 exp, if I could, I'd add the last level of Shou disciple and another level of diamond warrior.

[Vortling]

I see the law incarnate was a popular choice, showing up in two separate builds. Most interesting.

[mattie_p]

I was tempted to go the incarnate route, but I wasn't able to make it work the way I wanted to. Incarnates should consider Planar ward, which makes them immune to mind-control effects (aka some type of enchantments):Immunity > +2. Also didn't see wind cloak, which gives 2/magic DR to ranged weapons (+2 per essentia) unbound and deflect arrows when bound. Did I see bluesteel bracers? I wrote that down but can't remember what it did, I thought it was useful enough to consider.

I was thinking along the lines of Centaur Incarnate 6/Fist of Forest 3/Kensai 7. The kensai would require some creative reading of the rules to permit the skill of ride(self), but if I could sell that, I could take mounted combat, ride-by attack, spirited charge, and trample as a more favorable feat tree. Ultimately I went a different route, though, especially because it required some very ... um, creative interpretations of the rules, and probably wouldn't fly (or ride. whatever).

[The Underlord]

My build was going to be Wu Jen 5/Incantratrix 3/FotF 3/Swiftblade 9. Judging will come later.

[The Gilded Duke]

I had a surprising amount of trouble with this one. At first I thought I would be clever and do something based on European monks instead of Eastern Monks... so I did some research on Monks and Monastic orders and... monks are strange people.

Anchorites apparently were sealed inside rooms and never allowed to leave http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchorite

Hermits who never deal with people at all.
And Cenobites who sound more like bards then anything else.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cenobite

For a while I toyed with an anchorite build that could blast people anywhere in the world from a cell using Clairtangent Hand. But that didn't really seem like a monk in any way. Later I toyed with some sort of Incarnum / Manifesting combination.

My final idea was to do a Pilgrim instead of a Monk based character. It kept the semi-religious theme, and the focus on mobility. The main plan I had was some sort of Cleric or Nomad, with Cleric finally looking better in the end. I would have the Pilgrim largely based in the Astral Plane, using spells from the Planar Handbook to locate and travel to Planar Touchstones, and then using other spells to find and travel through Astral color pools allowing the character to get to any "holy site" in the universe and gain power through doing so.

it was there that the build began to fall apart. I couldn't figure out a way to make something that resembled Monk through the use of Planar Touchstones and magical locations. It ended up being more like a strange Binder then anything else.

[rot42]

Some very interesting builds, and it is nice to see incarnum getting some love. I was thinking Totemist/Binder/Knight of the Sacred Seal (full base attack PrC that advances binding), but kept running into the tension between getting the full suite of abilities vs. building a playable character. Totemist soulmelds give plenty of natural attacks; enhancing the attacks themselves (Enhancement bonuses), adding the Totem Avatar (Morale like the Mauling Gauntlets, but also gives Improved Natural Attack), and adding Knowledge Devotion (Insight bonus) gives a pretty respectable flurry. Several of the vestiges give monk-like abilities, particularly Ronove (unarmed damage, Feather Fall, and speed enhancement) and Buer (immunity to disease and poison, fast healing). Knight of the Sacred Seal gives Perfect Self.

As a note: DR/magic comes with the Magic Strike ability to overcome DR/magic.

[mattie_p]

It was interesting how builds seemed to appear in twos. Two Incarnum, 2 web enhancement classes, 2 ninja dips, 2 weird races, 2 psionic characters. Maybe that's just me.

[Randomguy]

My build was going to be Wu Jen 5/Incantratrix 3/FotF 3/Swiftblade 9. Judging will come later.

I would have done a swift hunter spontaneous casting druid with mostly elemental spells, loosely based on Avatar the Last Airbender.

[Rhaegar14]

Are we allowed to make requests for future competitions in this thread?

[motoko's ghost]

Are we allowed to make requests for future competitions in this thread?

Yeah, that's pretty much what happens until the start of the next thread, everyone discusses the builds, what they would like to see in the next one and I put them down in my shortlist of suggestions and try to figure out what ones would work best(some have no fluff or are too easy/hard to replicate)

So far the 3 in the lead for the next one are assassin,dwarven defender and totemist(based on previous suggestions)

[Rhaegar14]

I'd like to throw up a vote for Truenamer. Their flavor is very cool but we've all heard the stories of how ridiculously bad they are. XD

[Vortling]

Yeah, that's pretty much what happens until the start of the next thread, everyone discusses the builds, what they would like to see in the next one and I put them down in my shortlist of suggestions and try to figure out what ones would work best(some have no fluff or are too easy/hard to replicate)

So far the 3 in the lead for the next one are assassin,dwarven defender and totemist(based on previous suggestions)

I'd like to throw in a vote for assassin.

[motoko's ghost]

I'd like to throw up a vote for Truenamer. Their flavor is very cool but we've all heard the stories of how ridiculously bad they are. XD

Dont worry, truenamers are on the shortlist

[mattie_p]

Dwarven defender could be interesting, they want to be battlefield control but can't because they can't move (5' step at level 8). It's rage, but stuck in one spot. Never tried to play one because I didn't see the point.

[deuxhero]

Not really sure the other two are that good an idea as the general theme has been done with other classes (countless magic using stealthy doods and Deepstone Sentinel), so Totemist

[mattie_p]

Totemist would be a real challenge because there is very little overlap (other than other incarnum users) of their class features. That said, there is no real archetype for totemists, so we could see a lot of different interpretations.

[Vortling]

Totemist would be a real challenge because there is very little overlap (other than other incarnum users) of their class features. That said, there is no real archetype for totemists, so we could see a lot of different interpretations.

They have the archetype of lots of natural weapon attacks. I can think of a few ways to pull something like that off.

[Vortling]

double post

[mattie_p]

Qat in this thread or a maralith can pull that off as well. I'm saying that a monk can be a clearly defined archetype (outside of D&D). For example, as suggested by the chairman, you could go couching tiger hidden dragon type monk. You could go Neo or Seraph from Matrix (1-2). You could go the Last Airbender as Randomguy suggested. But all of them seem to have something (or some things) in common.

However, outside of D&D, what is a totemist? A shaman? - already a class. Character with lots of natural attacks? Lots of ways to pull that off. Something that channels beast spirits? See shaman or barbarian (totem ACFs). In other words, there is no clearly defined archetype, role, or stereotype in place, so you can kind of do what you want. Incarnum is a nifty thing, but one thing is for sure, there certainly are no pre-defined roles for them.

[dspeyer]

If we don't like any of the suggestions so far for Challenge IV, might I propose warlock? Its mechanics are different enough from the rest of dnd to make it a challenge, but generic enough to make it meaningfully doable.

[Baldin]

eey,

So when will the judgings be done?

i wonder how good i did for my first ever aplication=p

cheers
baldin

[mattie_p]

eey,

So when will the judgings be done?

i wonder how good i did for my first ever aplication=p

cheers
baldin

Seconded! Burning with anticipation.

[motoko's ghost]

:smallredface:...um,judging will be done soon.
Sorry if I've been slow, it's just RL

Also having a look at all the suggestions so far and how they are in terms of abilities and archetypes, the next one will probably be assassin

[The Underlord]

I'm working on mine

[Rejusu]

I'm curious if anyone tried to slip a Monastic Training/Tashalatora Psychic Warrior in. Technically by RAW you don't actually have to have any monk levels to gain it's benefit.

[Howler Dagger]

I'm waiting for the other before I start mine, just because I have never judged before.

[mattie_p]

* Sings an Inspire the Judges Song *
Let's go judges!
You can judge!
If you don't
No more fudge!

It's not hard,
Just pick a winner.
Its not like the
Loser is a sinner.

Now I know
Why Elan's songs stink
Because the rhymes
Are hard to think (of)!

[mattie_p]

Let's bump this thread and get some winners! All of us who entered deserve some kind of voting. Even if you didn't "register" as a judge at least tell us who you think wins. Yeah! Let's do this!

[motoko's ghost]

Yes, Yes I'm sorry it's been so long judging, but I have had way too much going on in RL at the moment, please just wait a few more hours and I should be finished judging

[mattie_p]

Yes, Yes I'm sorry it's been so long judging, but I have had way too much going on in RL at the moment, please just wait a few more hours and I should be finished judging

I completely understand. We'll be patient (not like we have much choice).

But all of us who submitted builds did so with the intention of winning, so we're all (at least a little bit) anxious. Or excited. Or whatever. So unless you want another horrible bard inspiration song... get to it! I'll get the other competitors to pm everyone to death!

[The Underlord]

I've been busy in RL, and I know sheep has been too. Judging will happen sometime this week, but definitely after the Iron Chef appetizer edition ones(they are on a deadline) and not soon since the judging I had is on my computer at home.

[Vortling]

I completely understand. We'll be patient (not like we have much choice).

But all of us who submitted builds did so with the intention of winning, so we're all (at least a little bit) anxious. Or excited. Or whatever. So unless you want another horrible bard inspiration song... get to it! I'll get the other competitors to pm everyone to death!

I'm most interested in the commentary on the build I submitted rather than its actual ranking compared to the other builds. Mostly because I haven't participated in either this or the other build competitions so I'm just getting my feet wet here.

[kulosle]

See I knew there was something I was forgetting to do. My build was going to be sohie 10/kensai 10. I even had the build getting two extra attacks per round. I got side tract by life and forgot to finish it. Oh well. I like the incarnate builds.

[mattie_p]

Is there an honorable mention category? Other than my own submission there was a build I really liked and thought fit well, should I just post it here or should I pm it? Also, please judge!

[motoko's ghost]

Hey everyone, sorry about how the judging for this turned out, We(the judges) just seem to have all been buried in RL stuff, I dont think there will be any scored judging but I will be PM-ing the contestants some feedback at the urging of mattie_p.

I was planning on finishing the judging but it doesnt seem feasble at this point, as I'm leaving for a week to attend a wedding in an hour.

Sorry I'll try to make up for this later.

Laya Highleaf - Baldin
Valen - Z3ro
Mind over Matter&Soul of the law - Vortling
Quetz - dspeyer
Qat - mattie_p

[Vortling]

Thanks for the follow up comments on this even if the full judging wasn't possible.

[Kuulvheysoon]

Alright, Glyphstone okay'd thi (minor) necromancy, so I've got some scores for y'all!

My Judging Criteria:

Innovation: How innovative is the build? For Monk, points will be deducted for straight Swordsage (as it’s a common monk ‘fix’).

Power: Power relative to straight monk and in its own right.

Fluff: Your backstory, as well as how it matches up to your classes/feat/skills.

Elegance: How the build flows, penalties will be awarded for 1/2 level dips (exceptions exist), flaws, etc... Rules comments go in here as well.

Ingredient: How well do you fill the role that the monk would fill? How many of his iconic abilities do you have a counterpart to?


Laya Highleaf – 16.25

Innovation: Fist of the Forest and Sacred Fist were expected, as was Human, though cleric was an interesting touch. 3.25

Power: your AC isn’t quite as high as you claim – by wielding a shield, you forfeit your Wisdom to AC. Easy enough to ignore, as the shield isn’t necessary to the build. You cast as an 11th level cleric (CL 15), which isn’t too shabby. You’ve got 4 attacks, which is a lot better than vanilla monk. Would have been nice to know your clerical domains, though. 4

Fluff: You specify joining the rangers, yet you took Fighter levels instead of Ranger levels. No mention of meeting your diety or one of his direct underlings (fluff requirement on Contemplative). Interesting story, however. 2.5

Elegance: Able Learner doesn’t work that way –it lets you spend only 1 skill point per cross-class rank, but you’re still limited by the amount you can place in the skill (unless it was at one point a class skill, where it then has the normal class maximum). If you had taken Cleric at first level, then it would have worked. Contemplative seems tacked onto the build. Not all DMs will allow you to trade around item slots (Headband of Wisdom, Shirt of Health) either. 2

Ingredient: You’ve got ‘improved’ unarmed strikes (1d10), base saves of at least +10 all around, you’ve got unarmored AC bonuses, fast movement and a religious focus (not that all monks are religious). Hells, you’ve even got immunity to diseases and SR25 (although only for a limited time). The only thing you’re really missing here is the innate Lawfulness. 4.5


Valen – 14.5

Innovation: Azurin (Law) Incarnate/Totemist? Have to say, I did not see that coming. There is another Azurin Law Incarnate, however. 3.5

Power: Although your +11BAB hurts, the fact that is still lands you that third attack combined with Incarnate Avatar (Law) means you’ll be better than expected in combat. Pounce is quite nice for any melee build, though, and mauling gauntlets combined with Superior Unarmed Strike can lead some decent damage compared to Vanilla Monk. 3.5

Fluff: ...There is none. Huh. 0?

Elegance: Incarnate 16/Totemist 4, easy as that. Both are heavily reliant on Constitution, Would have been nice to have a separate meldshaping table, though, to help with visual comprehension. 3.25

Ingredient: You’ve got unarmed striking (enhanced), lack of armor (well, the ability to go without), mobility provided by Cerulean Sandals+Blink shirt, Lawfullness and even SR. You fall slightly behind in the saves department, however, having a save below +10 base. 4.25


Mind over Matter – 16.75

Innovation: Factotum was a surprise, though Egoist was expected (to a degree), and human is standard. 3.25

Power: You’ve got the most powerful unarmed strikes, no doubt. Font of Inspiration combined with Inspiration also means that you’re the most flexible character this round. You’ve got a pseudo-pounce ability, which the monk would probably kill to have. 3.75

Fluff: Nothing mentioned about your latent psionic talent (it’s important because it forms a good part of your defense at earlier levels). Not exactly an inspiring backstory, either. 2.5

Elegance: Well, you don’t qualify for Practiced Manifester (needs 4 ranks in Psicraft). That’s also not how Cunning Dodge works. It says “If you take damage that would reduce you to 0 or fewer hit points”. So only on an attack that threatens to defeat you, and it’s only once a day. Other than that, Egoist dip (then justifying it), along with a full 16 levels of Factotum. Nice. 3.5

Ingredient: You do an excellent job at replicating many of the Monk’s features; Unarmed strikes are powerful, you don’t particularly need armor, and you’re able to haste/skate your way around the block. You do, however, have 2 saves below a +10 base. 3.75


Soul of the Law – 14.25

Innovation: a second Azurin Law Incarnate, this time straight up. 3.25

Power: Unfortunately, you actually have a worst BAB than a monk, so you only get a measly two attacks at 20th level, though Incarnate Avatar helps to make sure that that pair of attacks hits. Mauling gauntlets lets you add some damage to your attacks, which is always appreciated. 3

Fluff: Is missing here completely. 0?

Elegance: Literally straight Incarnate. I am in awe that someone actually went all the way to 20. A meldshaping table would have been nice, however. 3.75

Ingredient: You’ve got the unarmed damage of a monk, a single save below base +10, mobility is provided thanks to Impulse Boots and Cerulean Sandals, and you’re Lawful with an immunity to diseases and SR. Amusingly enough, you’re the only competitor who is actually literally unable to wear armor. 4.25


Quetz – 16.5

Innovation: ...You’re a Couatl. A literal Couatl. Jesus. (Swiftblade was also unexpected) 4.5

Power: Well, you’ve got 11th level sorcerer casting (choosing spells from the sorcerer AND cleric lists). On the other hand, you’ve only got 13HD worth of hit points at 20th level (and can only start play at 16th level). 3.25

Fluff: You’re a wandering ‘elven monk’. The theory in and of itself amuses me to no end. 3.25

Elegance: You’ve accepted the loss of points here by using flaws. The level of ninja almost seems tacked on (even though it serves its purpose). Other than that, it’s straight Swiftblade/Creature levels/LA. Lack of a table really doesn’t help with comprehending your build, though. 1.5

Ingredient: You’ve got Superior Unarmed Strike (though why you have IUS, I don’t know; it’s really not necessary)at least a +10 base save in each category (thanks to Outsider HD), Wisdom to AC with Ninja dip, and you’re got excellent mobility with flight (natural form), Ethereal Jaunt and Plane Shift. You can nab most of the other missing features through spells (SR, Abundant Step, etc...) 4

Honorable Mention right here, folks.

Qat - 16.5

Innovation: Thri-Kreen? Interesting. PsyWar was an expected entry, as was Shou Disciple. I’d never even heard of Diamond Warrior before this. 3.5

Power: You only have three attacks, but on the other hand, you have numerous iterative attacks and psionic lion’s charge. You’re effectively immune to difficult terrain, which is awesome for charging, as is Sidestep charge. If a single Ego Whip can sneak past your +14 to will, however, you’re finished. 3.75

Fluff: Not exactly inspiring, but definitely serviceable. 3

Elegance: Ninja and Elocator definitely feel tacked onto this build. Psywar/Shou does flow nicely into Diamond Warrior, however, and I’d side with you on ruling that Diamond Warrior/Shou monk UAS damage stacks. 2.75

Ingredient: You’ve got unarmed Strikes, All saves above base +10, a definite lack of armor, and you’re lawful. You have excellent maneuverability, but you miss out on more than a few of the monk’s higher level abilities (SR, Abundant Step, etc...). 3.75

[mattie_p]

OK, since this thread has been legally resurrected, and we have an actual judge, and all builds have been revealed, I can discuss the judging of Qat - which was my build.

Ninja dip was probably unnecessary, but I did it to give wis to AC, which in my opinion, is a key component of monk. Elocator dip not only boosted manifester level to meet requirements for Diamond Warrior, but also gave scorn earth and sidestep charge as bonus feat(ure)s. I thought both were most excellent in the feel of the monk. I admit total defeat in becoming an outsider and some of the high level monk features, but in my defense, this was my first competition build.

Overall I'd have to say I'm happy with your scores where I tied for second place (or put me in third if you call honorable mention as the tie-breaker.)

[Kuulvheysoon]

OK, since this thread has been legally resurrected, and we have an actual judge, and all builds have been revealed, I can discuss the judging of Qat - which was my build.

Ninja dip was probably unnecessary, but I did it to give wis to AC, which in my opinion, is a key component of monk. Elocator dip not only boosted manifester level to meet requirements for Diamond Warrior, but also gave scorn earth and sidestep charge as bonus feat(ure)s. I thought both were most excellent in the feel of the monk. I admit total defeat in becoming an outsider and some of the high level monk features, but in my defense, this was my first competition build.

Overall I'd have to say I'm happy with your scores where I tied for second place (or put me in third if you call honorable mention as the tie-breaker.)

You'll notice that I hit Quetz for the ninja 'dip' as well, even as I admitted that it served it's purpose (and you were awarded points in Ingredient).

You had good reasons to take the levels, mechanically; there's no argument there (and it rewarded you in Power), but taking only a single level each makes it feel tacked on, as I mentioned.

Overall, excellent for your first competitive build.

Funny enough, Quetz could have won this round if not for the flaws hit (and he didn't even need them - he had unnecessary feats in his build) if he'd dedicated a bit more time to it. Because seriously, who expects someone to swallow 7 LA in a serious competition?

[mattie_p]

Because seriously, who expects someone to swallow 7 LA in a serious competition?

Umm, since when is Zinc Saucier a serious competition?

But I was rather proud of Diamond Warrior, I think that had I entered now I would have done Psywar 7/Shou 3/Diamond Warrior 10. More elegant, more manifester levels and power points to mess around with to duplicate abilities.

For the record, here are Motoko's ghost's comments about my build, I guess I can make them public now...


innovation- psychic warrior was a bit of an obvious choice for this challenge, but I've never really seen diamond mind before(actually had to look it up)
power- reasonably powerful thanks to its psionics and melee abilities
elegance- you've got a lot of dips, which cost you in this category
fluff- wow she aint gonna win over the guys with that 4cha is she? nice concept though
ingredient- makes a good show of monkness