Drake Helm & Shards

[Tyger]

From the Explorer's Handbook.

Two members of my group (one is me!) are looking at this item with some relish (one Duskblade, one Bard) and I have one quick question.

The Effect states that each attuned shard attached to the helm gives you an extra arcane spell known; "the spell within the dragonshard is on your spell list just as if you had chosen it normally."

Does this mean you can only add spells from your list (Duskblade and Bard respectively) or can you add any arcane spell? I have a gut feeling it is the former, but it does not specify that the spell you chose must be from your available list.

[Tyger]

I hate to bump my own thread, but would love any insight anyone has on this.

[Kol Korran]

i don't have specific ruling (i don't think there is one) but if i were a DM i'd say it's only from your own list. the item is supposed to give you access to extra spells. if it was able of giving you access to totally different spell lists i'm sure it would have been mentioned somehow. (and cost a HELL of a lot more!)

it is one damn nifty item though...

[Diarmuid]

I dont have that book, but if the shards basically replicate the "Extra Spell" feat, then you're going to end up in the same debate that feat has sparked on these boards forever.

Some people feel that the feat should be able to let you pull a spell from any list as it doesnt explicitly say you cant. Plenty of others feel that the feat lets you pull spells from your own list only.

There is no clear decisive winner in that argument, so you're likely going to just have to see what your DM says.

[Cieyrin]

From the Explorer's Handbook.

Two members of my group (one is me!) are looking at this item with some relish (one Duskblade, one Bard) and I have one quick question.

The Effect states that each attuned shard attached to the helm gives you an extra arcane spell known; "the spell within the dragonshard is on your spell list just as if you had chosen it normally."

Does this mean you can only add spells from your list (Duskblade and Bard respectively) or can you add any arcane spell? I have a gut feeling it is the former, but it does not specify that the spell you chose must be from your available list.

It would appear there is no restriction on where you can get the spell from, like how the Extra Spell feat by RAW has no such restriction. So yes, if you can get an arcane spell into a dragonshard and into your Drake Helm, you can cast it, provided you have the spell slot to power it. That's a neat little trick I wasn't aware of, cool.

EDIT:
I dont have that book, but if the shards basically replicate the "Extra Spell" feat, then you're going to end up in the same debate that feat has sparked on these boards forever.

Some people feel that the feat should be able to let you pull a spell from any list as it doesnt explicitly say you cant. Plenty of others feel that the feat lets you pull spells from your own list only.

There is no clear decisive winner in that argument, so you're likely going to just have to see what your DM says.

There's an FAQ about it but that's about it.

[Diarmuid]

The FAQ is not generally considered to be a reliable source for rules...at least not around here.

[Pilo]

From SRD: A sorcerer casts arcane spells which are drawn primarily from the sorcerer/wizard spell list.
"primarily" here means "of origin", so even if a sorcerer know a spell, (s)he can't cast it if it is not from the sorcerer/wizard spell list.

As goes for the bard (from the SRD again): A bard casts arcane spells, which are drawn from the bard spell list.

The item add a spell know, this spell does not become a spell in your spell list, so you can't cast taht spell if it does not belong to your list in it in the first place.

I think there is the same things for the beguiler in the paragraph "Spells" of the class.

This can also be used for extra spell. Even if Extra spell allow you to add a spell from any spell list to your spells known, knowing a spell is not enough to cast it if this spell does not belong to your class spell list.

[Tyger]

Darn... that reinforces what I was thinking as well, I was comparing it to the Extra Spell feat, and I would rule (were I the DM) that means a spell from your list. Oh well, c'est la vie.

Now of course, in the case of a Bard / Sublime Chord, that would change it up a bit, as the SC does have the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list, correct? Of course in that case, you may as well just get a Runestaff if you aren't using your hands for anything else, far, far cheaper.

Though Pilo, this
"primarily" here means "of origin", so even if a sorcerer know a spell, (s)he can't cast it if it is not from the sorcerer/wizard spell list.
is not accurate - primarily does not mean "of origin" it means mainly, mostly, chiefly, for the main part, etc.

[Cieyrin]

The FAQ is not generally considered to be a reliable source for rules...at least not around here.

I'm not saying it is, just that it exists. Whether you you use it or not I leave to the individual group, as it's basically the opinion of whoever was the Sage at the time, which isn't necessarily consistent between Sages or even consistent throughout the time the Sage was in that position.


Now of course, in the case of a Bard / Sublime Chord, that would change it up a bit, as the SC does have the Sorcerer/Wizard spell list, correct? Of course in that case, you may as well just get a Runestaff if you aren't using your hands for anything else, far, far cheaper.

Sublime Chords do draw from the Sor/Wiz list, yet, so you could use a Drake Helm to add spells to either list. Hmm, I don't think the Drake Helm specifies whether it adds the spell to all your spells known or just one...

[Ernir]

This isn't just Extra Spell. Extra Spell says nothing but
You learn one additional spell while the drake-helm says
Each attuned Siberys dragonshard attached to your drake-helm gives you an extra arcane spell known; the spell within the dragonshard is on your spell list just as if you had chosen it normally.

The DH doesn't refer to the method of learning a spell (which for most casters is only from a certain spell list), only that you receive it as a spell known. I don't agree with "just as if you had chosen it normally" reducing the scope of the previous statement. I read it as a corollary, to explain how this would work to a casual reader.


TL;DR, I say it works to get off-list spells.

[Pilo]

Though Pilo, this
is not accurate - primarily does not mean "of origin" it means mainly, mostly, chiefly, for the main part, etc.[/QUOTE]

Source : http://www.thefreedictionary.com/primarily

Primarily may means 2. at first; originally.

What i said was accurate!

[Tyger]

Though Pilo, this
is not accurate - primarily does not mean "of origin" it means mainly, mostly, chiefly, for the main part, etc.

Source : http://www.thefreedictionary.com/primarily

Primarily may means 2. at first; originally.

What i said was accurate!

Except if that was the meaning the writers were using, the word would have no effect on the sentence.

Compare these two sentences.

The common reading:
A sorcerer casts arcane spells which are drawn "mainly" from the sorcerer/wizard spell list.

Your reading:
A sorcerer casts arcane spells which are drawn "of origin" from the sorcerer/wizard spell list.

The second sentence contains a redundancy, the first an explanation. Now, the WotC writers are far from perfect (how's that for an understatement?) but when one makes sense and the other doesn't, we should apply basic logic to the interpretation.